When he’s on his death bed breathing his last do you think he’ll regret ruining his legacy? I think so, he’ll think to himself he could have finished it if he just gritted his teeth and got it done, I don’t think he’ll regret not going to more conventions, or restaurants, or just being lazy in his house doing nothing.

>>24725859
I think he already regrets it. After seeing how the TV show ended he probably had some form of crisis because he was on-top of the world and could have done anything from the success of his series, but now he'll be remembered as the guy who couldn't finish a failed franchise.
He literally had the chance to be this generation's J.R.R Tolkien and he ruined it for himself.
At the very least he should have had a kid just as insurance because having another person who isn't your child pick up your work after your death is just a form of intellectual cuckholding.

>>24725846
You forgot
>be a shit writer from the start

>>24725881
Are the Song of Ice and Fire (GOT) books actually bad? The seris was quite good at first. I didn't watch it at the moment but it was legit a good series until, you know, the ending, and also bad decisions like Erenis Targaryen villain arc.

>>24725891
Erenis was evil from the start, only faggot retards still dispute this

>>24725859
I really feel bad for him and people like Goerge Lucas. They sold or let bastardized their franchises be bastardized and now they are going to regret it because it is similar to when a man pursues a casual sex life instead of having children. Basically he will realize that he will not be remembered for his money but for the franchise that could have been remembered as legendary and now is just...

>>24725873
Do you think he really could have turned into this gen Tolkien? And also I agree, the unique time where leaving the franchise to someone else was good was when Lovecraft left the mythos to his group. Some of these people wrote kino shit like The Hounds of Tindalos.

>>24725899
I am gonna say that yes, Daenerys was evil but then why people got so mad when she turned evil? I always thought it was partially because of a bad direction, not exactly the decision itself but how it was handled. I don't remember well so I may be completely wrong and maybe it was just that the fans loved her while dismissing the fact that she was very arrogant for example.

>>24725909
>Do you think he really could have turned into this gen Tolkien?
On a superficial level, I think he already is. Of course he lacks the depth and scale of Tolkien but purely as an author of fantasy GRRM was easily the most respected in the field. He was the only fantasy writer that stodd out amongst the slop, or at least that's how he was percieved by the masses. It's also worth noting that I don't think anyone could do what Tolkien did nowadays as everything is extremely materialistic and plagued with modernity (as reflected in GRRM's work as well).

>>24725891
the first three are enjoyable fantasy. the fourth and fifth books are poor to downright bad.

>>24725954
>It's also worth noting that I don't think anyone could do what Tolkien did nowadays as everything is extremely materialistic and plagued with modernity (as reflected in GRRM's work as well).

Its not just that it couldn't be repeated but you also have to note that 90% percent of western fantasy is based on Tolkien's works. To the point where sometimes I get tired of seeing elves. What I am trying to say is that it would be hard to make a work that people in the future will use as basis for an entire genre as much as Tolkien's was used as.

>>24725956
What books of the GOT series would you recommend to me? As well as other fantasy books.

>>24725891
A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings were not too bad, but even then I could already foresee the wild burst of irreconcilable narratives, and how the hype on which he rode built over the then excessive appetite for transgression and ‘politics’. From A Storm of Swords onwards it got muddled with a significant decline in the writing which culminates in the last book, by far the sloppiest, most soporific and writing-wise indigent volume. The series got propelled by its crude subversion of genre conventions, while still clinging to the tropes that sell well in the imaginarium of high fantasy (dragons, banquets and an exotic East). I wouldn't say he's a hack but it is inferior to a lot of stuff, including older titles such as Disch's On Wings of Song. Good job on getting illiterate children going through 7,000+ pages, though.

>>24725974
One of the biggest problems some writers face is that they are not actually "writers" in the classical sense. If you have an idea of what I am talking about, I am referring to the fact that some people only have some minor, irrelevant works or even zero at all and the franchise they created was a spark of divine light that came once. And then they have no idea of what else to write or something that mimicks the fame or interests of the previous work. One example I could put is that many people say the Wachowski sisters didn't know how to continue Matrix 1 and that's how in the next movies the characters mostly fought flying. Even thought I don't agree fully because I liked the origibal Matrix trilogy. But my point is that for the vast majority of people only one of their works will reach stardom. And they don't know how to continue it after it ends because it is all their mind could conceive.

>>24725846
hes fat and old and lazy and a boomer disenchanted with the political state of the country and the failure of the ideals he grew up believing in. its just time for him to go to the great dragon in the sky or whatever the religion of westeros is

>>24726020
Knowing how successful he was at first he problably was a Freemason so probably when he dies he will meet with little old Moloch Baal.

>>24725891
They're incompetently-written slop that make you think the author is an ESL.

>>24726053
How is that possible if the guy is from USA?

>>24725997
>Wachowski sisters didn't know how to continue Matrix 1
The sisters didn't write Matrix 1-3, they wrote Matrix 4 which was fucking cancer.

>The more you know!

>>24725997
I agree somewhat broadly with what you're saying but this is not a good fit for George. He was already a known author before the release of ASoIaF and won many awards. These works did bring him into the mainstream, perhaps to his own detriment. In some ways I don't blame him, having the money allows him to do as he wishes in his old age.

>>24726084
Then who the hell was? Everywhere I search it says they were the writers and directors and I heard that Matrix 4 was directed by only one of them. What happened?

>>24725974
>A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings were not too bad, but even then I could already foresee the wild burst of irreconcilable narratives
Yeah that's the issue.
Though there's legitimately good character writing and that's all fine for what already is. But when you're getting credit for having a new take on the Massive Fantasy Epic, a lot of that credit is borrowed on the assumption that you'll finish, that there's at least some sort of ultimate point to the story and it isn't just the most elaborate JJ Abrams mystery box of all time.

>>24726094
But do you agree that he didn't know how to end the franchise or even continue it at some point? But yeah, he had other works before that and had won awards. But my point is that he is utterly screwed because that was the franchise of his life, basically his child. Most franchise authors only have one and one single franchise/important work in their entire lifes and even if he did make something good later he would still have to live with the stigma.

>>24726103
>Then who the hell was?
The Wachowski BROTHERS wrote Matrix 1-3.

AFAIK they only wrote 4 because there were too butthurt over losing someone IRL and wanted to literally "Resurrect" their franchise characters (even though it made no fucking sense) to get over it by proxy.... Also "blablabla studio meddling" and wanting to re-boot without their involvement anyways so they decided they may as well drive their own franchise into the manure truck at top speed themselves. (Or only one of them)

>>24725997
Main problem with The Matrix is that the premise was fundamentally flawed, but the first movie was so fun, stylish and full of high-testosterone action that fans didn't really notice. Follow-ups might have worked better as a serial, where you just didn't think to much about the central conceit and just followed Neo & crew on episodic adventures in The Matrix, while a slow-burn plot about the human/machine war simmers in the background.

As an epic, the stakes and setting are just too fucked. Humanity has already lost, most people don't even want to wake up, and the real world part of the setting is rather generic (boring) sci-fi. It would have been exceptionally hard to come up with a really good conclusion in just 3 movies.

>>24725846

I am reading A Game of Thrones and frankly this work is rather tedious. Takes forever to get to the point. It's pure plot faggotry and if you've watched the show you can almost skip it. The one thing worth enjoying here is how the characters differ from their show versions. And even then the show did it better

>>24726135
I think if you listen to what he says and from an observers point of view, what he does. He never had a real solid idea of how to end it. As he labels himself a 'gardener'. As in, he follows a loose string and creates as he goes along. I agree that this is what he will be remembered for. All I can hope for is that we get a solid answer from him as to why it never finished.

>>24726196
>As in, he follows a loose string and creates as he goes along.

It has been always so weird to me how authors have a general idea but don't know hoe to end it. When I imagine a story coming with an ending feels more fun than tedious. The franchise I have in my mind has a clear ending and message, the problem for me is not the structure but coming with ideas because the story is long.

>>24725846
sold his soul for a fat check

>>24725846
Gurm doesn’t believe in the afterlife. He has money after decades being in poverty. What is there but enjoying himself? We all know nothing he could write will live up to expectations. Why bother?

>>24726297
I mean many people who sold their souls, just as >>24726275 said end up living shitty lifes internally. Not just in the spiritual sense but also mentally.

>>24726297
The problem is that he keeps pretending to care. If he just fucked off into the wild blue yonder and enjoyed retirement people would understand. If he gave solid updates on the writing people would understand. But he just wants to occupy this weird middle space where he still gets all the attention but offers nothing in return.

>>24726308
The Simpsons have virtually no viewership compared to past seasons. Youtubers consistently outperform it. Yet they are paying millions each episode to a cast that will literally die before retiring from that godawful zombie.
Why?
Because the BRAND lives as long as the show lives. All the million lunchboxes and ringtones that make up the bulk of the income will stall out and wither if there is no show.

GRRM has two ongoing adaptations plus half a dozen others he’s talked about being in some state of production. If he gives up officially or shuts down all progress ASOIAF is dead. The brand is hurt. All the assorted crapola is no longer greenlit for adaption or sale. As long as he remains “working on it” and new shit is produced the BRAND lives. He gets paid. He travels the world and rubs shoulders with actors and gets the projects of his friends like Zelazny looked at by the suits. It’s money and power.

>>24726326
That's precisely why he sold hos soul. His franchise is not a story is a product.

>>24726308
Gurm has never pretended to care. Before the show aired he enjoyed not writing the books, editing wildcards, and going to coventions.
After the show aired the only thing he did differently was work on other projects that werent the main westeros books.

>>24726308
Because when his actual planned ending was shown to the world it was universally despised, now he needs to repeatedly rewrite a 1500 page book or all his fans will turn on him and he'll be forgotten as another mediocre fantasy author,. It's sisyphean

>>24726334
What was his planned ending?

>>24726340
The last season of the tv show

>>24726341
I thought the last Season of the tv show was a rushed ending and not actually how he wanted to end it all.

>>24726342
He's intentionally vague about that but it's at least based on his ideas for the last books, and since it was a complete flop I think he's trying to distance himself from that as much as possible
Interview
>So you’re gonna be somewhat surprised by their ending then, perhaps …
>Well, to a degree. I mean, I think … the major points of the ending will be things that I told them, you know, five or six years ago. But there may also be changes, and there’ll be a lot added.
His blog
>How will it all end? I hear people asking. The same ending as the show? Different?
>Well… yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes.

>>24725997
>Wachowski sisters
>sisters
Go back to R*ddit.

>>24725930
Daenerys did nothing wrong. Chang my mind

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>>24725846
He got wealth and fame. I don't think he cares what happens after he dies.

>>24726393
The fuck you talking about? Are they trans or something?

>>24726394
I already forgot what the hell she did in the first place.

>>24725846
How many inane threads are you going to make on him today? Just curious. Half a dozen seems too few.

>>24726342
well yeah he didnt have the will to put a bow on it so he let tv hacks do it for him. rest in piss.

>>24725909
>I really feel bad for him and people like Goerge Lucas.
I don't feel bad for Martin but George Lucas I do, somewhat. But only a little.

Lucas finished his epic. People vastly underestimate the risk and difficulty in creating a good cinematic epic, especially a reasonably original one. The original Star Wars trilogy remains an incredible accomplishment that no one can ever take away from him. Even if he screwed it up in the prequels.


>>24725959
>you also have to note that 90% percent of western fantasy is based on Tolkien's works. To the point where sometimes I get tired of seeing elves.
It's so weird to see people constantly misunderstand the influence of Tolkien, despite Tolkien being obviously the most influential fantasy writer of the 20th Century. "Tolkien elves" fill a major archetype in fantasy: like humans but magical with angelic traits. They're a supernatural, idealistic form of human embodying grace and beauty. Tolkien adapted his elves from mythology where they filled a similar niche.

Any fantasy writer has a choice, either don't implement such a grace+beauty race at all, or implement not-elves that are otherwise exactly like every other "Tolkien-derivative" fantasy elf. (Note: Tolkien never even explicitly described pointy-ears as a defining feature of elves. Artists added that later).

>>24726394
*shoots you in the head*

>>24725964
You will never ever get fantasy recommendations from people who say ASOIAF is garbage (maybe, MAYBE Tolkien as an exception) because these people only exist to call everythimg terrible. They don't actually have anything they want to praise.

>>24725964
If you like asoiaf then check out wheel of time. They are actually similar, though wheel of time isn't as dark.

>>24725846
>legacy in tatters because [two Goldman Sachs scions bamboozled you over a strong handshake and too much wine with zero showrunning experience and even worse screenwriting and novels]

He's part of the tribe so that hardly matters. Mostly his 'gardening' method is too 'jazz', and he's composing on ancient hardware/software. And he refuses to have researchers do bitchwork. But such is the fate of all Boomers, Ponzi Scheming against even a denouement, just a long slow agonizing zombiefied slide into nothing.

>>24725846
Is he still seething about Tolkien?

>>24726393
Thank you for your commitment to using respectful language, they're actually xisters

>>24725873
>He literally had the chance to be this generation's J.R.R Tolkien
In some minor ways, sure, but not nearly or totally. Tolkien didn’t write smut like GRRM, his books had moral worth and were more accessible to various types of reader. GRRM is too crass and hung up on technical bullshit and world building despite the latter not even holding a candle to JRRT’s ability.

>>24725846
Truly, the American Tolkien, with all it entails

>>24726457
this. he had no ending so he let them do one. thats the ending people get. glad i dropped this series after the first book and first season.

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He has lived a better life than you. Cope.

>>24728240
"Muh Tolkien!!! Muh post modernism!! Muh good vs evil!!"
Retards dilating about dumb shit, meanwhile George is fucking black bitches harder than drugs and law enforcement ever could.

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>>24727833
indeed & chkd

>>24725964
Start with book 1 of the main franchise and just read until you get bored. Common sentiment is that book 3 is the best, books 4 and 5 go downhill. Aside from the main franchise, theres the Dunc and Egg short stories, which are all very good, and a handful of worldbuilding books which I've never been interested in. The short stories are fun, and maybe they'd be a good starting point, but I'd really recommend at least reading Game of Thrones beforehand.

>>24726513
>The original Star Wars trilogy remains an incredible accomplishment
Oh, please. The second instalment happens in reverse, and the third was just a rehash of the first.

>>24726692
To his dying day.

>>24725846
He had a break-out series that was original planned to only be three fucking books. Then he got famous and lazy, and wrote himself into a corner. This includes writing a ton of extra shit that although had cool additions (Jon Con, Victarion, Jamie chapters) just make it so he has to write more. Which. Is not his strong suit, lmao.

I also fully believe the show ending was what he had planned, but it left such a bad taste in everyone's mouth he scrambled to change his own drafts. Thus taking even longer. D&D went to his house and talk about the show/books so they had to have gotten more than just Bran becomes king, Dany turns le evil, and Stannis burn's daughter.

No clue about the kids and not having a family, though.

>>24729776
>I also fully believe the show ending was what he had planned, but it left such a bad taste in everyone's mouth he scrambled to change his own drafts.
I honestly feel bad for him because if he hadn't revealed this to the show and let them fuck up the ending on their own, he could probably still release that ending and be ok. Sure, it still would've been controversial, but it would probably automatically be better than whatever D and D would come up with. But now that his ending is automatically associated with the shitty final seasons, it will be instantly trashed just because of how much people hated how the show portrayed it.

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>>24725909
>>24729862
I don't get why you would feel bad for him.

He was more interested in getting acclaim and cashing in, having his rewards now. He was the sole captain of his ship, but chose to add two others that paid him very handsomely for it. Not only financially, but in fame as well.

The prestige alone would bring a lifetime of sluts to his door.

He wanted hos reward now. And he got it. There are good reasons to doubt he could ever have created a good ending to the series. You fuck with archetypical storytelling and you write yourself into a corner with it. A story that is developing is interpreted differently than a story that is finished, as the ending recontextualises everything that came before. It's unlikely that the structure of a song of fire and ice could ever have held up any ending with satisfaction.

Why feel sorry for the fat lazy bastard? He chose to have his reward now. He got his reward now. He chose immediate gain over the brief immortality of being remembered a generation after you're gone. I would have done the same.

Any regrets should be for choosing a selfish path rather than one that would have given more to people in general. The way the two goldman jews should regret falling for Disney's trick that dangled offers in front of them, but only if they quickly wrapped up the show. The perfect murder to diminish the competition of game of thrones tv series, which could have had a long term genre impact similar to how capeshit did.

Nobody willing to plant trees who's shade they will not sit in.

>>24725846
Why do moralfags think he hates Tolkien? He named himself after the guy and read all the lotr books.

>>24726194
>The one thing worth enjoying here is how the characters differ from their show versions. And even then the show did it better

How is it the one thing you enjoy if the show did it better

>>24726084
The script for the Matrix was stolen off a writer who was Christian that Hollywood didn't want to let into their fold despite liking the story so they just stole it. That's why 1 is so different from 2 and 3 and why it's basically an allegory for the Gospel, while 2 and 3 are more gnostic/buddhist in nature.

>>24728660
Reductive, no-context criticism. I bet you only read headlines.

Luke's arc in ROTJ is not a rehash. The story structure is not a rehash. Even though one of the final objectives is nominally the same as the main objective of the first movie ("blow up the Death Star"), it's not even close to a narrative rehash. Only the most catatonic redditor would fail to distinguish them. ROTJ even with its flaws reaches a satisfying climax and conclusion to the story developed in the first two movies.

There are criticisms to levy at the original SW trilogy (eg Luke&Leia retconned to be siblings) but again consider the context. There just aren't that many original, multi-movie cinematic epics to even compare to. Most are derived from novels or comic books (and almost none are older than Star Wars). Leone's Spaghetti Westerns, Back to the Future, The Matrix, Kill Bill. Maybe Star Trek II-IV. Even if you include derived works and capeshit, it's still very hard to sustain quality for 2-3 consecutive movies. How many Tolkien die-hards were on suicide watch after Peter Jackson's Return of the King? The 3rd Matrix movie was hot garbage. Robocop was basically a 1-movie epic with some cashgrab sequels. The Singer X-Men trilogy had a crap 3rd entry (and the first was mediocre). Nolan's 3rd Batman movie was also the weakest.

>>24730158
truth

>>24725891
They're right up there for the best fantasy series ever written. George has great characters, dialogue, plot (albeit this fairly one collapsed). In terms of foreshadowing and mystery it's so far ahead of other series that the main forum has been active for decades with people trying to read between the lines.

>>24725891
>>24725899
Who the fuck is Erenis? Why are both talking about a character that doesn't exist and using some made up name? Are you both just trying and failing to spell Aerys?

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Call him in

>>24730309
>first segment on tattooine
>enter the teddy bears
>last segment another death star assault
ROTJ is a trash fire, and you're just a simp for Lucas.

>>24725873
>He literally had the chance to be this generation's J.R.R Tolkien
HAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>24730280
this is nonsense, isn't it? Who was the christian writer? I'll dive into the rabbit hole if you give a lead.

>>24725846
I knew he was a bad egg when he said he was a supporter of both the Giants and the Jets.

PICK ONE.

>Originally intend to have a timeskip in his books
>Decide rather than timeskip he'll write out what happens instead because "it'll get too complicated otherwise"
>Ends up so complicated that he can't finish the books.

George never wanted to write books he wanted to write TV, hence why he dumped the books the second he could write TV stuff again.

>>24730515
Showfag detected

>>24730524
hes too those days woke even for current martin
just get Joe Abercrombie, he has the same nihilist jewish blackpilling "humor" as martin

Flay him. Geld him. Put him in the stocks so any passerby can take his turn

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>>24730524
>>24731076
Only one man can salvage this.

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>>24725974
>t.

>>24725964
Jack Vance's Dying Earth series. better than anything the fat fuck has ever put out and he himself would agree just as he did in the forward to the compilation of Dying Earth stories he edited
>>24726620
nigger

>>24731166
Those fanfic stories were mostly terrible. I was expecting the writers to emulate Vance’s style but hardly any did, maybe because they are literally too tone-deaf to make stylistic distinctions

>>24731182
Yeah they were almost all awful. The Dan Simmons one was so bad I vowed never to read anything by him ever again.
Seemed like the contributors wrote their usual stories with a coat of DE paint on them. The one exception is the Cugel tale about the plant which was passable. You also get a feel for the generation gap with all the stronk girlboss stories for a minor side character who was only in a chapter or two of the original works.

>>24730524
>>24731076
>>24731126
abercrombie is the only way i can see it finished
he has very similar dry dark humor and is a fan of martin, if he tried he could probably write in a similar way

what i do worry about is that george dosnt actually have anything planned out, im starting to suspect what we heard years ago from his editor is true, and that there was never anything written for the next books, and that martin is just trying to run out the clock, doing what ever till he drops dead

>>24725846
lmao GRRM rules because of how much he makes the most annoying kinds of people seethe.

>>24730676
Sub-literate criticism.

>>24731273
All I see are people alternating between making fun of him and respecting the selfish decision to cash out for a life of hedonism.
Hardly see any seethe (but then I don't visit lebbit)

Imagine being an old fatass wanting to retire and constantly having dumb faggots pester you about "finishing" some silly fantasy story you made up decades ago.

>>24731586
imagine becoming a millionaire due to your fans and then spitting in their face when they ask you to finish a fantasy story.

>>24725909
don't feel bad for billioneaires. They know what they did

>>24731273
He’s based for actually not giving the feminist woke mob what they want (Daenerys winning the throne). The tv show was his ending, he saw how the masses reacted and said fuck it, I’m not gonna change my ending for you faggots and you won’t appreciate it so no book for you

>>24725873
>He literally had the chance to be this generation's J.R.R Tolkien
I don't agree at all. The first book came out in 1996 and nobody had even heard of it until the TV series started. Martin's books have ridden on the coattails of HBO's efforts, unlike Tolkien and even JK Rowling's work.

>>24731774
He is better at finishing meals than books. He was supposed to finish it during the show, he had almost a decade.

>>24725846
George R R Martin is partially Jewish. Stupid antisemite.

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will you read it?

>>24731605
Write your own if its so important, leave the old man alone lmao he probably has no idea how to end his story anyway.

>After ASOIAF is finished he wants to finish his epic sci-fi series, do another book in another series, and finish his other trilogy off
>He's 76
HAHAHAHAHA

>>24732624
fucking hack

>>24725891
He's great at making interesting, well detailed settings and compelling characters. But his plotting is terrible, and he seems to be actively aware of this.

Fake Aegon is his attempt to fix it and ended up adding a major plot line to an already way too big story.

I genuinely think that George is too autistic to write. If "What was Aragorn's tax policy?" not obvious enough about that, but he just focuses on the minor details way too much and like seriously over focuses on them when nobody else cares. This is causing his books to grow bigger and bigger and spiral out of control. He'd be able to finish the books if he just focused on the main characters he has and actually focus on the plot instead of diverging the plot onto "But what was happening at this middle of nowhere location at the time?" and "But what were they having for dinner at that time!?" and "But what was Sir Dennis Mallery and Sir Bartham Bathory and Sir Boris Blatteny doing at that moment? Lets focus on them for a bit!"

Seriously AFFF and ADWD were just full of "Meanwhile in Mereen, these people were sick! And there were these possibly poison locusts! And the Shavepait was doing this! And meanwhile in Dorne Arys Oakheart and Areo Hotah were doing this!" and its like who cares! Like from Feast onward his autism spiralled out of control.

>>24732736
should've spent his time learning to program a world simulator like dwarf fortress instead

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>>24732736
You guys ever read any of James Clavell's Asian Saga? It kind of sounds like what you're talking about, Clavell is great at thickening the plot but by the end of the book there's no way to wrap everything up so after 1k pages he just kills a bunch of main characters[/spoilers]. I've only read the first three books, but it happened every time. Never read GRRM, was waiting for him to finish before I picked it up and now I guess I'll never read it.