>whole galaxy's main means of quick interstellar travel is 100% dependent on the compound that can only be produced on this one single planet >somehow te natives of that planet have not yet been genocided or enslaved and the whole thing turned into an industrial spice farm constantly defended by the best troops in the empire Wat
Bcuz they good at making sand castles. Didn’t you read
>>24747204Did you know the Apache weren’t subdued until 1924?
>>24747227Yeah but they weren't living over the Earth's sole supply of oil.
>>24747204Explain Saudi Arabia
>>24747204They are allegorical arabs, Herbert cared more about his gay propaganda symbolism than creating logical science fiction, yes. Many such cases.
>>24747420There's oil all over the Earth not just in Arabia.
>>24747204I'm just gonna assume it's some shit relating to the Benny Jizzerit
>>24747204It's an allegory on israel producing all of america media and being persecuted by white people but still coming on top and surviving.
>>24747204iirc the natives were subjects to whatever noble house was appointed to the planet as well as being indoctrinated by the BG into their messiah religion.The entire plot of Dune is started by a cumulative fuck up of the nobles and the BG clergy and has nothing to do with the skills of the natives.So why genocide them when they can be used as cheap workforce? This isn't America, there are no racial issues. The "natives" are probably just some first generation settlers to that alien planet.
>>24747204Screw the allegorical reasons people are saying. It's not that. Over and over again the Fremen are described as being in hiding and being the only people capable of surviving in the deep desert. Only a small portion of the planet was farmed for spice industrially.That said, and maybe you're just not expressing this well enough, you filthy, parched, sand-covered noob, but I did wonder how factions in the galaxy were capable of technological advances, like... SPACE TRAVEL AT ALL, but weren't able to use their advanced tech to survive in a godamn desert and avoid being eaten by godamn worms. Now that's unbelievable.(Disclaimer: I haven't read the last two books in the original series yet, but I doubt Herbert would discredit such an important premise of his series anyway.)
>>24748423>I haven't read the last two books in the original series yet, but I doubt Herbert would discredit such an important premise of his series anyway.Don't worry, he does.
>>24748429Oh nein.
>>24748423I always got the sense that post Butlerian Jihad the Imperium was operating with remnants of previous technology rather than inventing and progressing. Shields, the family atomics, etc. They can only make hyperspace work with spice addicted human navigators, etc. I think Ix and the Bene Tleilax have access to more and better technology. They do also make Arrakis fertile and wipe out the worms eventually Come to think of it, it’s interesting that the comforts of civilization are what conquer the Fremen over time
>>24748423>the Fremen are described as being in hidingAnd they don't have the means to glass them?
>>24748768>And they don't have the means to glass them?If you actually read the novel you would know the answer
>>24747204>somehow te natives of that planet have not yet been genocided or enslaved and the whole thing turned into an industrial spice farm constantly defended by the best troops in the empireUh, am I missing a joke here? Because they literally were
>>24748775Doing that would also kill the worms?>>24748782Only a small bit of it. There's only a couple settlements.
>>24748783The only fremens who weren't enslaved were those holed up so deep in the desert the Harkonnen didn't even believe they existed at first.
>>24748790How tf would these dudes not be able to tell there's millions of inhabitants in the deserts? Don't they have TECHNOLOGY?And if the ones in the North were enslaved wouldn't it make more sense to kill them or ship them somewhere else and bring in colonists from off-world to settle the planet?
>>24748783>Doing that would also kill the worms?Not really. The harkoonens didn't know where most of the fremen lived because the spacing guild banned orbital observation. The fremen could shoot down any ornithopters trying to bomb them. Harkoonens used artillery a few times successfully but afterwards the fremen adapted and it got countered.
>>24748804>the spacing guild banned orbital observation...what
>>24748799>tell there's millions of inhabitants in the desertsA planet is a big place for people to hide, especially when said people live underground, are nocturnal, and shoot anyone that's nosy>Don't they have TECHNOLOGYA central plot point is the TECHNOLOGY is controlled by a monopoly that benefits from the fremens presence
>>24748807This is a major plot point of the book. The fremen pay massive amounts of spice to the spacing guild so they aren't surveiled. The spacing guild gets an extra source of spice at 0 cost
>>24748815This whole situation is so contrived
>>24748799>Don't they have TECHNOLOGY?What technology are you talking about? There were areas on the planet with such harsh conditions nobody could go anywhere near without dying and vehicles breaking down. The idea that anyone could live in those places was absurd. Only the fremen knew how
>I never understood one thing about this series
>>24748816Sure, so is having giant sandworms living on one planet be the crux of the galactic economy. At least the fremen bribe stuff makes sense
>>24748817How did this situation go on for 4 digit number of years without causing problems?
>>24747204I'll let you in a secret: Dune is shit
>>24748831>4 digit number of yearsProbably the dumbest part of herberts worldbuilding. Without a GEOD situation it's impossible for the balance of power to remain basically the same for 1000 years, let alone 10,000
>>24748831What would change it? I don't remember too well, but didn't the bene gesserit-whatever cult have to implant the concept of a messianic leader and holy war in the fremen culture and groom it for centuries to get them to finally get off their asses and fight back?
>>24747204Unlike some people, the Navigators Guild understand the value of scarcity to keep their space hauling profits nice and fat. They also prefer to play it safe and keep things the way they are.Reminder that until Paul let the cat out of the bag, very few non-navigators actually knew why the Navigators needed the Spice or how much they consumed
>worldbuilding expert here, did you now that this successful novel is actually INCORRECT in ways nobody cares about? a trained worldbuilder such as myself would have avoided all these blunders if i ever wrote anything myself (i will not)
>>24747456Yet it would have been possible and convenient to genocide them and take it.
>>24748423> but I did wonder how factions in the galaxy were capable of technological advances, like... SPACE TRAVEL AT ALL, but weren't able to use their advanced techI think 40k stole the best bits here. Like there’s “regular” space travel and it’s slow. Or there’s warp travel but it’s dangerous and you need navigators to pull it off. Technology exists but is regulated and seen as dangerous because of the AI uprisings. Instead of mentats they have servitors, humans transformed into computer components because the “soul” protects it from being an AI. This balancing on a knife’s edge of what “technology” is and how it’s allowed to be used because of misuse is more hinted at than something he dives into but I don’t think the dilemma is that hard to understand. Everyone wants the advantage so they bend the rules. There are no consistent limits because practical needs also count.
>>24748815It's in fact such a major plot point in the book that it makes me thing many people in this thread just watched the shitty movies that cut out all this stuff and came here to discuss the book anyway, because I've seen people IRL asking me the same kinds of things after watching the movies.>>24748856Bene Gesserit didn't have any interest in the fremen fighting back and probably didn't know much about fremen culture anyway considering we see that Jessica didn't know much about them. They also never groomed anything, they did an initial implanting but fremen have been doing their own thing hidden in the desert for a long time, probably aided by their limited precognition.
>>24748933It's significantly more difficult to commit genocide with our level of technology and modern system of ethics than it would be for a feudal galaxy-sized space empire with sci-fi WMDs.The relative value of the Arabian peninsula to us is also significantly lower than that of Arrakis to the empire in Dune.
Why are retard nigger apes advocating for glassing the desert when sand worms need it to survive. You know, the same sand worms who produce spice. Talk about being pedantic.
>>24749356The Fremen are just noise to the Harkonnens, they don't consider them to be a big threat, and don't care. They're just some savages farting around out in the desert while the Harkonnens are reaping massive profits from their palaces in the few cities around the polar region of the planet. Basically the theme is that you have a ~bunch of schemers who are trying to control their little worlds~ and play feudal politics with each other while neglecting the environment. >>24748448Everything for Herbert is about the ecology and how humans adapt to their environment. The Harkonnens impose themselves on Arrakis's environment, but the Fremen basically ARE the environment, or the true masters due to their interdependency with it, which is why they can ride worms, which are symbolic of feral nature. The worms are completely wild. The destruction of the empire is literally a force of nature that sweeps them aside once the events start playing out, which does make Dune pretty awesome to read when you're a kid, and the movie did a good job:https://youtu.be/rL2k3EkyNxY>>24748839Well I dunno how "realistic" the world-building is, but as a philosophy, Herbert believed that change is inevitable, but it's very gradual over thousands of years (until it isn't), and he didn't see it as progress. It's more like entropy and growth of complexity. Also the natural condition of human beings is some tribal or feudal structure. So it seems strange that a feudal system has lasted for 10,000 years, but Herbert basically believed that it is the world we live in anyways. But the feudal system in Dune is a really simplified or theatrical version of that belief he had about human social organization.Also another theme is over-dependence on a single resouce as corrupting everybody. That reminded me of Bougainville in the Pacific, it's technically a part of Papua New Guinea. This happened after the novel, but there was a giant Australian copper mine dug out on the island, and it wrecked the environment, and then the natives rebelled and there was a civil war. But the mine is still there, but it hasn't been tapped in 30 years, and the people are still there.
>>24747204first:you don't care about the ants in your garden.second:defended against an invasion of the planet by another house.next question?
>>24747427Chechens. Dune had long passages ripped off a book about Chechens.
>>24747204>whole galaxy's main means of quick interstellar travel is 100% dependent on the compound that can only be produced on this one single planetThis is a big secret, genius. If it got out, the Guild would lose its monopoly, and its power.Instead they co-opted the Fremen to let their spice-smugglers operate in secret, in return for protections and technology.Try reading the fucking book.
>>24750331I just refuse to believe such a ridiculously risk-prone system has functioned without issue for thousands of years.
>>24750358Because society and politics have become ossified, and nobody with any power wants to upset the applecart.
