Or why fantasy books are overwhelmingly romance erotica slop.
Because women buy more books, happy to help
>>24747746Because publishers have kept alienating men
>>24747749The entire light novel scene is targeted at men, most of non-fiction is targeted at men, lots of hard sci-fi is targeted at men, there are audiobooks galore targeted at men, all of the classics are targeted at men.But men pirate their media, women don't, it's that simple. Hell look at the folks here, the target market for "men's fiction," 99.9% of them nab epubs from Anna's and download doujins from the panda, while the chicks go to Barnes and Noble and buy 40 porn books a year. What do you want publishers to do here exactly?
>>24747751Publish male writers, duh. Publish US, WE, the writers on this very board. Of course that's what we want, why would we want anything else?
>>24747755>Publish US, WE, the writers on this very board.Ha ha ha, delightful.
>>24747755And people here will just pirate it, they don't publish you because nobody buys the books!Again I say LOOK at sales, LOOK at the light novel scene, which is 1000% targeted at men, each series that is published sells a few thousand copies and gets pirated 50,000 times. It's not a coincidence men's books dropped off when the internet took off. There is a reason Yen press charges $20/volume for an LN which costs $5 in Japan where piracy is basically not a thing, and they have a huge men's entertainment industry.Men pirate, women don't, that's all there is to it.
>>24747765I OP actually only ever pirate one novel. It was the 40k one with Sargon of Akkad in it as a villain.
>>24747751>Hell look at the folks here, the target market for "men's fiction"Most anons here very obviously do not read, with the exception being certain generals like /sffg/.I agree with your overall thesis, though. Pirating culture just leads to the overall industry being dominated by people you do not care for.
>>24747785I'll add to this, everyone talks about how "Japan is the last place that makes men's media!"Well Japan is the only place where the police will bust your door down and put you in big kid jail for piracy, these things aren't a coincidence. People here are heavily subsidized by Japanese men's spending. Takeshi the gooncel spends $300/week on Jr. Idol videos, Manga, LNs and Doujins, then dudes worldwide pirate translated versions.Again I'll say it's no coincidence men's media collapsed after piracy took off here (internet development), because the men who read a lot are at least college educated, and EVERY college educated man knows how to pirate.I'm not advocating invasive DRM here or anything, but it's worth thinking about this next time you decide to pirate things.
>>24747749It's always been the case that women read more novels than men. This is not recent.
>>24747751What about KU? Monthly subscription and we just read their slop. The author gets a cut, right?I feel like more men should take advantage of KU.
>>24747765Thats because women tend to be ignorant of how to use the internet. Instead of using for useful things they use it to post their ass for thirst traps instead. Taking up valuable bandwidth because they're so fat it slows down the internet.
OP here again. I just wanted to mention I bought that book called "son of the sun" that was advertised here on the ads like maybe last year. If you guys have any good originals let me know. I might buy 'em.
>>24747839Stuff like this makes me glad men's creative outlets are being closed. Who wants to read something that's nothing but cope and seethe?
>>24747856>makes me glad men's creative outlets are being closed.I'm still not glad because women basically just write smut.
>>24747738all editors which decide what you can read are either roastoids or enable them
>>24747738>been a literary agent for 10+ years>worked at 6 agencies So I guess he's not a very good agent.
>>24747738It takes one person to ask a question. Do it yourself, coward faggot
>>24747940???Have you never held a job before? 6 companies in 10 years is normal. Best way to advance is to find a new job.
>>24747853I also bought that book. Good read, what did you think of it?
>>24747795I pirate books to figure out if I will like them. I'm not spending $20 on a paperback only to find out I hate it.I'm also not spending $300 on the 12th edition of a textbook. You can blow that shit right out your ass, faggot.Many older books are also out of print and publishers refuse to reprint or put them in the public domain, so what choice do I have but to pirate them?In short, go fuck yourself industry shill.
>>24748029>I pirate books to figure out if I will like them.So what do you do when you like an epub you've just read?
>>24748029>I'm not spending $20 on a paperback only to find out I hate it.And you retards wonder why it's all romantasy slop now.
>>24748029>doesn't buy anything>wonders why people don't make more of the things he likesYou are just like the dweebs on /v/ who pirate everything then wonder why modern games are all targeted at africans and women
>>24747738>>24747749>everyone is busy working bc no one can afford to take time off anymore bc everything is so damn expensive>men are more likely to prioritize working and usually work longer hours>a lot of the publishing industry is done via contract work, and the people who usually take that kind of work are women staying at home>women will more often than not write for other women because they're women>also what >>24747751 saidsimple as>>24748029>I'm not spending $20 on a paperback only to find out I hate it.just keep the receipt and return it retard
I'm not spending $20 on a paperback, periodThe reduction in physical quality over the decades is unreal; many if not most paperbacks are now printed on something not much better than recycled newsprint, and even the covers are cheaper and more fragileWholly apart from that, though, there's just no straightforward pipeline to get paid for good work and no mechanism that even roughly selects for quality anymore, and developing an audience is much more about shitting out videos, gaming algorithms, e-begging and forming a network of mutually-reinforcing shillery than anything elseThe entire architecture of the enterprise of writing doesn't work anymore, which is why 90% of it is some flavor of political grift
>>24748217>>24748029And thus why women buy more books then men. It also doesn't help thatyou would purchase Pokemon cards (ITS AN INVESTMENT!!!!), video games with $100s of dollars of DLC, gacha nonsense, and only fans for thousands.But you wont' spend $20 for a book. You won't even spend $10 for a book
>>24747738The same people who believe every disparity that harms people who vote for Democrats is the result of systemic irrationality and hatred will look you straight in the eye and tell you that there are all manner of purely material, economic reasons for every disparity that harms people who don't vote for Democrats.
>>24748217They make things like clothbound classics and fancy paperbacks just for this complaint.
>>24748029BASED
>>24748038I'm glad you asked. I buy them in bulk, Usually 1,000 copies. 2,000 if I really liked or if it's just a particularly light read. My dad owns one of those private landfills. Gotta make sure nobody else reads the copies because people should have to pay for them since they're good.
>>24747738The publishers dont, it’s the agents that do.
>>24748217>The reduction in physical quality over the decades is unrealmy paperbacks are in good condition, or just go buy a hard copy.>there's just no straightforward pipeline to get paid for good work and no mechanism that even roughly selects for quality anymorelook, we all know femoids have shit taste in their fantasy erotica but we don't need to pretend that people have never focused on quantity over quality. companies have always churned out repetitive and similar slop, be it the dime novels of the late 1800's, cowboy movies of the 70's, or the brown military simulators in video games in the 2010s. trends have always existed and you're whining like a little bitch.>The entire architecture of the enterprise of writing doesn't work anymore, which is why 90% of it is some flavor of political griftkys
>>24748038Purchase it, stick it on my shelf. Often I don't even have to read the whole thing to know I'll like it so I'll buy it and finish reading.>>24748129Retard>>24748158Downloading it for free is infinitely more convenient.>>24748232I've never spent a dime on any of that crap.All of your kvetching is disproven by web novels anyways. The traditional publishing industry isn't responding to market forces, it's out of touch.
>>24747738>fantasy books are overwhelmingly romance erotica slopTo all the incels passing by, know that the fantasy genre is alive and well.The romantasy genre is a *romance* novel subgenre, so the library section where you find those novels is not the same as the fantasy section.It got to a point where just having a romance subplot in a proper fantasy book will send your book directly to the romantasy section. See the Cruel Prince, which is literally a spin off of the Chronicles of Spiderwick, but is still put among romantasy novels because the kids are kissing each other.But no, the tropes are completely different between the romantasy and the fantasy genre. The former is more similar to what the Divine Comedy does, in terms of worldbuilding: X different places with each their vibe and creatures.Fantasy novels are more about finding an elf in a human stronghold located in dwarven territory.The issue with incels is that they don't realise that male dominated interests are fucking niche. Check picrel. See how there are so many feminine things, but almost none predominantly manly things? That's because men have more specific interests that being part of 35000 different fandoms.You even gave me an idea: poetry is pretty niche. Are female poets the ones who get published the most? And suprise suprise, https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/two-thirds-of-published-poets-are-male-so-does-poetry-have-a-gender-issue-1.3984922>A survey found 63% of published poets in Ireland are maleMaybe stop sending your fantasy novel to romance publishers, retard-kun.
>>24747749I bounce back and forth on this. Yes a huge amount of new books that come out are aimed at women and written by women. But there certainly are "enough" books for men, often written by men.A man who would buy a tonne of books if the market catered more to them would still, presumably, still be buying a tonne of books. There are enough good books that would particularly appeal to males in print, enough that no one person could really run out of books that are of interest to them if they're even halfways capable of looking them up. If the whole story was that the market deliberately or ideologically isn't catering to men enough, you would still have a tonne of men buying a tonne of books on a similar order to women, they would just be buying particular categories of books. The market might not be as coddling of them as it is to women, but you would see strong signs of their existence.Instead its fairly well observed that men really do read less even given access to books that might be expected to more to men's taste. However big a factor bias against men in the publishing industry is, a huge factor here is also men in the first place. They do not take to books and develop reading habits as easily as women on average.
I don't know anything about the genre world but back in the early 10s I was the fiction editor of a journal, probably three quarters of submissions were from women and at least half of the submissions from men were terrible impersonations of their idols, mostly Hemingway and Thompson.From what I see online these days, things have not changed much.
>>24747751Nice try, except this started long before digital books were a thing. Western publishers have been pushing men away for decades. In 2016 78% of book publishing staff among 34 publishers were women.
>>24747738>op can't write commercial slop and is pissed off at his own incapacity to cater for women.Nice one punchy, as if there's a vagina in my motorcycle's seat.
>>24748778Because publishing staff have been women for decades and have kept pushing their agenda. They decide which books get published. Book publishers stopped catering to men, so they turned to other media - video games.Don't you think it's odd that the self-published and web novel scenes heavily skew towards male authors and audiences, but traditional publishing doesn't? It implies the gap isn't natural.>>24748824But there aren't. Traditionally published novels don't offer the kinds of stories I, as a man, want to read. Web novels, Japanese, Korean, and Chinese novels do (and don't Kindle ones). It's got to the point that if a novel is traditionally published that I dismiss it out of hand due to prior experience. At this rate, you'll have an easier time convincing me to read AI slop than something traditionally published. With AI there's at least a chance I might be the target audience.
>>24747749"Men" who are alienated by book publishers of all people are sissy crybabies.
>>24748925>(You)s me without addressing anything from my postI smell a clanker.Name 3 household name fantasy authors that are male and published something this year, if you are a real human being.
>>24747751Most web novels are goon trash or some shitty teenage drama. Maybe 0.01% of fiction is actually targetting grown men
>>24748925>Traditionally published novels don't offer the kinds of stories I, as a man, want to read. Web novels, Japanese, Korean, and Chinese novels doTbf, this is your fault for liking crap. Try starting a tiktok trend to push this stuff like women did for their fairy tale porn.
>>24748925>Traditionally published novels don't offer the kinds of stories I, as a man, want to read. Web novels, Japanese, Korean, and Chinese novels do>Anon compares Western Fantasy with Eastern FantasyThis is fucking hillarious./lit/ can't even into genre slop.
>>24748960You must be blind to not see the overlap of western and eastern fantasy.>>24748930My post says that men, including me, are alienated from traditional published novels. >name 3 authors who published in the last yearI don't fucking know, because they have lost me as a reader. Right now I'm reading a story by CluelessRR.>Try starting a tiktok trend to push this stuff like women did for their fairy tale porn.That just means women will invade the space and start complaining about how everything is problematic, how the stories need to be "inclusive" and cater to them.
>>24747856While your "creative outlet" is wide open i assume?
>>24749075>You must be blind to not see the overlap of western and eastern fantasy.>I don't fucking know>Right now I'm reading a story by CluelessRR.So this is the IQ of the average BookTok hater...retard-kun, please, tell me: what was the most recently traditionally published book you read?
>>24749080I'm female, so from what I've heard on /lit/, I can just choose to become a millionaire romantasy writer whenever I feel like it. Still considering it.
>>24749125For the most part, the books sell reasonably well, but usually in the <10,000 copies, so you probably won't get rich doing it. Might make a few bucks though. The prose in them is so simple that you know you can do it, but since it's so simple, it's easy to get into a flow and accidentally write something good, and that won't sell, so you'll have to keep frustratingly handicapping yourself mid-manuscript.
>>24749125>im female.No youre not.
>>24748912Piracy of books has been going on among educated men since 1990, it's BEEN decades.
>>24748912>>24749453When Dickens toured the US in 1842 he pleaded with Americans to stop buying pirated editions of his books
>>24749125>I can just choose to become a millionaire romantasy writeryour grasp of logic is atrocious. I truly believe you're a w*man
>>24749125>Anon uses overt sarcasm and inadvertly demonstrates how autistic /lit/ is and that they will never be able to appreciate the subtlety of the Classics because of it
>>24747749And they alienated them because women buy low effort books. Men may have quality standards, but the majority that buys George Martin and Sanderson sloppa or who read diversily are still a minority compared to them.Now that sales are dwindling down they are trying to push men into buying slop for women instead of making books for them.
>Giving (You)s and arguing with a nametranny How fucking new are you?
>nametranny>How fucking new are you?It's namefag, newfag.And I have to add,>Anon obsessed with trannies>Anon comparing western fantasy and eastern fantasy>3 anons can't notice sarcasmAnd I should be part of this filth? Projecting newfags ready to troon out, retarded menchildren who get filtered by slop and autistic NPCs programmed to react to any mention of a hole.This wasn't /lit/ back when I wasn't namefagging. /lit/ used to read, when I was another random anon. But now it's a rotting corpse and (You) are the worms eating it.I refuse to be one of them.I will be the one who will have a soul. The one who is still reading. Who can discuss literature, from the most brittle to the highest one. Who doesn't blindly follow the unspoken rules of the boards in the hopes of being recognized as part of it.These subhumans think they can come to /lit/, learn a couple memes and that's it: they are special, they are not like the masses. But they don't know the reason behind any of the things they speak: the /lit/ canon is ephemeral, distant, it is not something they want to create, it is instead something they wanna achieve.The jargon, the anonymity, the absence of an archive. Why is any of that on 4chan? For them, it's just the mean to be another sheep in the flock of the special, black sheeps. Truly, they just paint themselves black, but they are still normalfaggots at their core. If you don't follow the flock, they will seethe. Do they care about the quality of the flock? No. To them, the only thing important is the coat of paint, because they giants upon whose shoulders they sit were also black.Being an anon is now performative, and I refuse to be part of these NPCs, poorly copying what I have been.They know I speak the truth: they can only accuse me of not keeping up with the appearances. "We are Anonymous" meant being able to speak your mind, now it's a way to have no mind of your own and hope that others in the community will make up for it.I will not be the one who contributes to your identity. I will be the one who shows you have no soul and the only thing you'll be able to say will be "I don't like you because you are not like everyone else".
>>24748018>6 companies in 10 years is normal.No. It isnt. Only retail wagies who job hop from Pets Mart to Cracker Barrel do shit like this.
>>24748279Those are also giant pieces of shit. >>24748926The only people crying in this thread are the defenders of open discriminaion against male readers. >>24749125>all published authors are millionaires Let me know when you're done being retarded.
>>24747940I don't know about the specifics of the publishing industry but it doesn't seem absurd all things considered. From the names alone, it seems like he made his career in shitty independent publishers where salaries and job stability aren't really good. And I assume it isn't easy for some O'Brien nonce looking Oklahoma corn farmer whose connections consist of the local pig breeder and his meth addicted cousin to break into HarperCollins in New York.
>>24747738All modern moids do is whine and seethe instead of giving patronage to the things they enjoy. It's no wonder romantasy is so popular. And you can still buy mid fantasy with Gary Stus, but you can't even be assed to search for them, can you?
>>24749741This! So much this! The publishing industry is skewed towards dumb women who read Harry Potter and dumb romance novels. It should cater towards men, who have better taste and read things like sci-fi and Elon Musk's latest authorised biography. The fault is on the roasties reeee
>>24748426>we don't need to pretend that people have never focused on quantity over qualityyou're a fucking retard who can't understand differences in magnitude and relative prevalencethe rest of your comment is basically projectionas a bonus I'll go ahead and quote myself from February>let's take a look at pic related>where would one even go to find an equivalent list like this today, covering books of the last 20 years? do you suppose the reviewing/taste-making/filtering apparatuses of today would have the balls to include something like Mein Kampf, if only to deride it, or even Freeman's biography of Robert E. Lee?>oh yes, and who are today's Eliot, Hemingway, Mann, Saint-Exupery, Cather, Fitzgerald, Lewis, Steinbeck, Huxley, etc.?>then there's the matter of quality itself, and concordance with future value/importance: from our much-later vantage point we could surely make some changes and fix some omissions, but as a whole it was a worthy effort with solid predictive power, and one does not get the sense that it is merely crass advertising or a dishonest circle-jerkas you've now been assfucked into oblivion, I recommend you take your own advice
>>24750359Take the L. The current state of affairs, both in the publishing world, and politically, are all the fault of dumb feminists ruining everything. You're in charge of the publishers, you're in charge of education, you're in charge of the economy, you're in charge of Hollywood, you're in charge of the decline in marriage and birth rates, you're in charge of the surge of OnlyFans, flooding every website from Instagram to Linked In with your ass pics, you're in charge of BookTok, you're responsible for Twilight, 50 Shades, and Horny Eragon Fanfic, and keeping Harry Potter relevant 20 years after the final movie came out. Take a bow. Pat yourself on the back. Adopt another stray cat. This mess is all you. You kicked men out and have no one else to blame now. Enjoy it.
