>the west is actually declining in the XXI century>nobody reads him anymore except a few edgy chuddiesWhy?
>>24750842It isn’t declining in the way he said. He was really just a quack.
>>24750844>twentieth century will see a succession of gigantic conflicts>rise of massive ‘world cities’ and cosmopolitanism>rise of cultural universalism>art becomes increasingly a re-tread/commentary on what came before>science becomes increasingly about refining what came before, rather than anything ground-breaking>democracy turns into blatant plutocracy>drop in birth-rates>parties lose interest in meaningful policy and become vehicles for individual power/wealthyou were saying?
>>24750842People dont need to read about what they can see with their own eyes.
>>24750842what is there to read we know he was right, we are living it
>>24750842It's not accessible reading at all. I tried just picking it up and I was basically floored by how much background he assumes the reader has.
>>24750844It is declining in the way he said, the problem is thinking anything can be done about it. Ironically Spengler himself made that mistake, thinking that by formulating and presenting his philosophy we would be able to know what steps to take for the next phase of the cycle and control history, a very Faustian way of thinking. But like Cassandra, the prophet is cursed to be disbelieved.
>>24750842Read Vico.
>>24750842Nobody reads him because we are declining and decadent.
>>24750883Sounds like the renaissance
>>24750842>nobody reads him He's very peculiar in his ideas. >except a few edgy chuddiesChuddies don't read him either, they just like the title. Those who do read them are generally weirdos who don't fit with any gang.>>24750883You did not read him.
>>24751085What should I read by him?
>>24750842>dude art is dead and nothing is made anymore>writes very dramatic and poetic account of descent This work is not scientific at all but it’s fun to read when you hate le west and liberals. Fuck trads, fuck religion and fuck despots. You’re lucky you animals get rights in the greatest achievement of mankind.
>>24750842>the westwest of what?
>>24751922The New Science by Giambattista Vico. It's the early modern foundational work of historicism and of understanding how ancient thought began and evolved. Some sections are pretty boring if you aren’t interested in philology and don’t know Greek or Latin. The strong parts feel like an early precursor to Jung.
>>24750842Proactively, nominally, directly and explicitly refuted by pitirim sorokin
he was refuted by history.The Russian horde culture was defeated a couple decades into its emergence and humiliated by the current rulers of the world, the germanic faustians.
>>24752553>the current rulers of the world, the germanic faustians.
>4Chan_Meme_Pepe5.jpg
>>24750842You don't understand Spengler.Spengler wrote from a viewpoint of a kind of metahistorian. He truely believed that he discouvered some laws that history follows.Actually, even if some leftwingers and rightwingers starts to cry now, compered to the situation at his time, Spengler was quite of a multi-cultural writer. He considered Indian, Egyptian, Chinese etc. history and doesn't just wrote a world history in which Chinese plays a minior role or where starting points for Europe.He doesn't believe in a universal progress. As a result of this, he was able to see cultures strange to him in their own rights.For him, a declane of the west is something necessary and not bad or something.
>>24752548Why are there so many russians interested in philosophy of history? This is probably the 4th Dugin type figure i've seen mentioned on this website
>>24752020>Fuck trads, fuck religion and fuck despots.Wokism is already the next powerful religion.What is tradition? It is the usual way of doing things. Of course, we have traditions, like any society before us. Some traditions, like ceremonies, are useful, not in the strict sense that they cause specific outcomes, but rather because of the psychological effect they have on the mind. Things like Marriage, Congressional openings, and similar events do not exhibit their full meaning because people do not tend to reflect on the importance of such events. People perceive them as meaningful and imporant mainly because of the ceremonies associated with them.>You’re lucky you animals get rights in the greatest achievement of mankind.Kek.No, Sir, I would have had essentially the same rights in 1900 or even 1800 as I do today. Since I do not own many meaningful rights at all. Besides, perhaps "labor rights". A form of socialism that was unknown in the past.>>24752553Kek.
>>24752553WW2 was the equivalent of the crusades, and those failed in the long term as well. Besides, Russia has been under extreme levels of pseudomorphosis since its birth, it's being dragged down by a decaying corpse, once it rots away entirely and the chain is broken, russia will flourish onto the world
>>24751020>and I was basically floored by how much background he assumes the reader has.welcome to pre-WW2 literature
it's really not that difficult to predict collapse. golden ages are so rare in history. just write about how everything sucks and next century will be horrible and chances are you will be correct.
>>24752020Gibberish post
>>24752559Yes the anglo sphere and western Europe are at the forefront of the world. Dominating and controlling it without any genuine rivals.
i think it's safe to say that, with the benefit of hindsight, allying with the soviets in the second world war was a terrible idea
>>24754257fascist
>>24750842The self-regulating cosmological futility of reality precludes people who are correct about the broad strokes of things being listened to at the time where their insights would be relevant. It isn't a partisan issue.
>>24750842I've been wondering if Spengler wasn't really a Magi. And this book is him exercising his powers.
>>24754388how do you gather that from what i said?
The Faustian man concept is gay and demonic.
>>24754257The war was thrown to eliminate them so that the UK could steal back Baku. Some even wanted to put the old king back on the throne while Churchill could rule a PM for the German empire. But mostly it was to kill the growing number of socialists who had been suffering from the first world war. The westerners allied as a sort fo joke. They dithered and played around in Africa instead of carpet bombing German cities. In the end it was the Russian people who drove back the Hugo Boss fags. Churchill wanted to free the POWs and send them right back in, but the US was having none of it because they had to pivot to the Pacific.A Fascist world would have resulted in world resembling what China is now."Civilization" is a cancer, fascists are just dogs.
>>24750842Only an idiot would deny that the modern West is decadent, as in, in a state of social, moral and religious decay. No amount of wealth and technological progress is going to compensate for the damages brought by a multicultural, heterogenous, atheistic population built of wretches who would rather flee to the Carribbean Islands or literally sell their land to foreign masters rather than fight for their own country. We've got no men anymore, other than metrosexual faggots. Everyone in this board is a metrosexual faggot. The liberal capitalists have sold the soul of their national states to make more profits. What is there more to be said about such a cowardly elite unworthy of it's rank? Corruption alone is what brought in all the migrants. The vapid middle classes follow their example sheepishly, convinced that spitting on your own people and your country is not only the way to go, but something to be encouraged. Faggotry, effeminacy, negligence of duties and shamelessness have become virtues in this trainwreck called the West. I am happy that the day this worthless corpse exhales it's final breath, nothing of worth will have been lost. Already, we have abolished everything wich once made our greatness and our glory.
>>24754257One wonders what he would have written about WW2. If he even survived it, anyway.>>24754767Westerners can be quite gay and demonic, from an outsider standpoint.
>>24752553hard to refute given the Five Eyes + Nato's global reign going unchallenged the past decades honestly.
>>24752553>>24755526Neither of you guys have read the guy, have you? Culture shenanigans are not really about being the strongest nation or geopolitics nonsense.
>>24754767The Faust story is like the god of war series where you have one mythological figure go from one pantheon to the next
>>24755728It's actually because Spengler loved Goethe. His entire philosophy is inspired by Goethe.
I make, conservatively, 15-20% of all of the posts on this board. This didn't deserve it's own thread so I'm leaving it here. I'm pretty sure I'm talking to the same 5 people all day long adopting different personas.
>>24756253Really? I thought he was inspired by Nietzsche and Schelling's Ages of the World (1811).
>>24751108>>24751218So how could Spengler explain where Heraclitus fits in Apollonian culture? He stresses that all permanence is an illusion, which alludes to the idea that boundaries are arbitrary. It seems that hes at distance from the other Greeks when he makes struggle an ethical principle. Stoics and Epicureans preached abstention from it as an ideal. Plato & Aristotle believed in static forms which all of reality adhere to
bump
>>24752020>This work is not scientific at allSo? Bitch you don't even know calculus.
>>24756504leftists can't into hard science
>>24756274It can be inspired by several things.>>24756387He mostly dismisses him. Oddities can happen.
>>24754966Isn’t that kind of freeing? One can focus on his soul and body and the people around him. The great narrative is gone, nations are gone, culture is gone. Those were all chains that are being broken. The pursuit of truth and a virtuous life are again possible.
Historical revisionism never changes. There are always retards proclaiming how good it was n years ago and current year sucks for xy reasons, usually to dip their hands in other people's pockets or to shoot them in the back of the head. The only common thread throughout history is that the few always benefit from the mass, whichever ideological ass flavour you decide to tongue
>byzantium was culturally closer to the near east than it was to the westsome of his observations are absolutely devastating on every single level, to say the least
>>24757208it's a miracle the average chud reader doesn't explode when he keeps comparing the greeks to India while saying we are much more like the chinese.
>>24754239Yeah but the anglosphere is not ruled by germanic faustians.
>>24758043The iberians were closer to greeks than germanics
>>24758088yes it is. some semites, spics, nogs, asians in the entourage dont change the driving feature. We have dominated the world so much these foreign lands wouldn't even recognizable to their ancestors anymore
>>24754966All this will be fixed when the power plants that burn trannies and brown people to generate electricity for AI open up.
>>24758097If you are talking about anything after 1000 AD you'd be wrong. Spengler very often waxes about the Faustian purity of the Spanish empire under the house of Austria.
>>24750844>>24750842>nobody reads him anymore except a few edgy chuddieswrong>Oswald Spengler Society – Members And Missionhttps://youtu.be/BTtmY74l11U>Additional Notes:The Decline of the West (German: Der Untergang des Abendlandes; more literally, The Downfall of the Occident or even more literally, "The Going-Under of the Evening Lands"; some of the poetry of the original is lost in translation) is a two-volume work by Oswald Spengler.
>>24758631>International Oswald Spengler Society>Board Members are all very obviously and almost comically german.
>>24750842
>>24758631https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA7E2840B724C6695This is good provisional for Spengler as well. John David Ebert is a scholar of history & art who made commentary videos about Spengler's books, Kant's, Blood Meridian, Pynchon, etc.
>>24759256Ebert is resident schizo
>>24759314Yes he is a little unhinged but if you want an exegesis on a philosophy or mythology text his vids are incredibly helpful.
>>24756958You are gay and retardedWhat you call “freedom”great men called slavery
>>24759328From the standpoint of great men the historyless void of post-cultural fellaheen seems the opposite to slavery. The underlying destiny has been fulfilled, there is no more teleology. You can do whatever you want; for the first time in a thousand years great men own themselves. Some man with a few thousand braves will be able to topple dynasties, make the world into his playground. It won't mean anything, of course, and after he dies it will all go to nothing. But there is freedom.Latin America is like this, one guesses.
>>24759340A "great man fellaheen" is an oxymoron of the highest order, by definition a fellaheen lives an aimless, day to day life, an ahistorical creature, whilst a great man can only be great insofar he plays his part in fulfilling the civilisational destiny.
>>24759328There are no great men. It contradicts human nature.Those people you call great men would have beaten you down with an iron fist and they would spit on your grave.The meek shall inherit the earth, after the fiction of the great man has revealed its ugly head before the world.
>>24750842COLLAPSE
>>24759360I never postulated the existence of great-men fellaheen. More that they would be free do as they please in the sandbox of post-cultural existence. > a great man can only be great insofar he plays his part in fulfilling the civilisational destiny.I am not so sure, I think Genghis Khan was pretty great in his own right, for example. Plus this classification of great men precludes them being aware of their greatness (only in hinsight can we actually know if they were Great in your sense, and not just adventurers, dabblers, etc.). As you set them out, Great Men aren't a discernible type, just a post-hoc category.
>>24750842Is Spengler even "right wing", I see all the based boys love him.. but are his ideas even compatible with that sort of worldview? I'm very right leaning myself, but have hesitations about this guy. Not that I limit myself to reading people who are ideologically compatible but..
>>24754966You are also a metrosexual faggot. Do you want to rub our boners in tight jeans together?
>>24759553Yeah he is right wing. Very famous Conservative Revolution author. Just because because he doesn't fit a neat little box on the post-hitler paradigm doesn't mean he is right wing.
>>24751218>Those who do read them are generally weirdos who don't fit with any gangYeah, thats pretty good way to define me, thanks.
>>24759553>Is Spengler even "right wing"he literally voted for Hitler
>>24756958>>24759458And I think this is just the legacy left behind by "Western dominance" of the planet. Reformations, enlightenments, and revolutions changed everything which is Faustian man striving for the unconditioned, the Absolute. I think this sounds a bit like Hegel's thesis but I haven't read him. With that said you cannot separate the triumph of modern technology from its western european origins and culture
>>24752638I dont like Dugin but philosophy of history is a fascinating subfield. Berdyaev and Lowith are two to follow id say.>>24760576>votes for HitlerWas he a quasi-accelerationist before such a thing existed?
>>24761126No, the primitive world was just as dynamic and meaningless before the West than after. An endless up and down of upheaval is their state of nature.>Primitive peoples are subject to a movement that is not historical in the higher sense - the movement may be a jog-trot or may be a charge, but it has no organic character and no profound importance. Nevertheless, these primitive peoples are in motion through and through, to such an extent, indeed, as to seem perfectly formless to the hasty observer. >>24761284No. Just disliked Hindenburg and the conservatives.
>>24759553>>Is Spengler even "right wing", I see all the based boys love him..This book is certainly not right wing. Spengler came off as a cultural relativist and not western chauvinist like far right which judges every civilization of the world on metric based on western civilization. Spengler said that there are different civilizations and they have different souls. You can observe vulgar right winger going around calling people niggers, boasting about his superiority and shitting on every civilization because they don't fulfill the faustian criterion. Spengler had nothing to do with this.
>>24750842Because his entire argument wasn't actually about the West being over he was just mad Germany lost WW1 and decided to catastrophize form there (ie if Germany is doomed then I hope the entire world is doomed - pure spite).
>army takes over a country in 1000bc>thousand years go by>a different army take over a different country in 30ad>a thousand years go by>a different army take over a different country in 1000adI have deduced a pattern to history and we are overdue an army taking over a countryyou are welcome, my fine young autistic friends
I’ve read this book multiple times. I don’t think the edgy chuddies read it because they wouldn’t be edgy chuddies if they did. Spengler calls for things like the attainment of virtue and deed, the articulation of a uniquely gothic law, and transformation of economic life into a life of public service. He never calls for edgy shitposting about Jews.
>>24759553He was conservative and tried to bring about and steer a conservative victory. So in that sense he is conservative and reactionary. However, he also thought all of this was totally inevitable. As he says “it’s willing this or willing nothing”.
Your premise is flawed and based on feelings. The world isn't ending just because you had to sit next to a black guy.>>24750883What a bunch of non-problems that aren't even unique to our times. Touch grass and get a clue.
>>24759553You know how Evola called himself “super fascist” implying he was above fascism? That was obviously bullshit but Spengler really is “super right wing” in the sense that he is above and beyond right wing politics. His vision of history is not contemporary, not epochal, it is in the scope of a grand vision of all world-history. Spengler isn’t looking for some election victory, or a series of Republican Presidents, or a slow victory of conservative values, but a fast and decisive end to modernity ushering in the final phase of Western civilization itself. His vision is so much bigger than this or that “wing”.
>>24762103Ok fraud. Spengler believed the white world would have to fight the non-white world in a “world war”. Try actually reading this guy. He reproaches the vulgar ancient-medieval-modern view only because he believes it diminishes the actual view of history and thus marginalizes other cultures and civilizations as either mere precursors to the modern or irrelevant. He simply points out that Chinese culture was unique, Greek culture was unique, that these things aren’t mere context for the West and left great legacies all their own. He would still happily call someone a nigger.
>>24762135Actually, it is. Civil rights law is a symptom of democratic decline which ultimately can only result in crisis. Black men are Toynbee’s internal proletariat and as such cannot exist in civil society alongside the white man. The insistence on making it try to work corresponds exclusively to the liberal delusion and democratic failure, both of which enter the scene at the penultimate stage of a culture-civilization. Healthy peoples aren’t democrats.
>>24762135It's not that the world is ending. That's more of a leftist anxiety with regard to things like climate change, which will not actually end the world. It's moreso that the west declines in a cultural and intellectual capacity. If you want more power-centered, materialistic analysis, then Kondylis does a better way of illustrating how western nations will wither culturally and in terms of power with things like demography
>>24762135Birth-rates are most definitely a problem, especially since western countries rely increasingly on reactionary nations to replace their falling populations. This will and is creating cultural change and change in labor relations. Yet they have to do this if they want to keep up with countries with large populations. Demography is destiny.
>>24762142He never said that western culture is the only metric and the most superior culture. He said truth of other civilizations is relative. A nazi would never accept this and bricks you with universal absolutist ethics and culture where he feels on the top.
>>24756958No because for Spengler with the twilight of a culture-civilization comes also the exhaustion of possibilities. In Spengler’s view, Western man will never be as sincerely religious as he once was, make art like he once did, believe and feel like he once did. All of that is over. Western man can still do things, but things without real religious feeling or ability to apprehend the sublime or the pinnacle of creative potentials and also without any real cultural, civilizational, or historical significance. With the terminal stage of a civilization, its people sink into the sort of life already being lived by the various fellaheen quasi-tribal living around the world. Life becomes about survival or pleasantries and outward aping of the cultural forms that are without inner content. It’s the difference between a medieval peasant who experiences life in a deeply and sincerely religious way and an American who preaches Christ but doesn’t really deeply or sincerely believe and is more preoccupied with business affairs.
>>24762150He did actually. He explained that the unique characteristics of Western culture not only allow him to lay out this grand vision where such a thing was impossible in other cultures, but also that Western culture was uniquely poised to integrate and make relevant all of world-history. THE reason Egyptian man matters to world-history today is BECAUSE of he matters to Western man, for example. Moreover, he elucidates a great number of ways in which Western culture is totally unique and far superior to other cultures. That is not to say it is objectively superior as a culture, which he never says, but to say he never says it’s unique or superior in any way is simply false. Spengler himself was a card carrying Nazi for a time btw.
>>24762153>without real religiousYou have the religion of Free trade, scientism and raping planet with technological progressivism doe
>>24762158None of these are religion and come to the fore because of the retreat of religiosity. Spengler insists that there is always a return to religiosity which he calls the Second Religiousness but that this is a “faked antique”. In other words, people become piously religious again, even dogmatically so, but in a syncretic, shallow, sort of insincere way. It’s the difference between truly experiencing the world in a religious way and insisting on a religious ethic but not really believing or feeling life in that religious way.
>>24762173>>None of these are religionThere very much are.
>>24762178They’re not, not for Spengler anyway. He defined religion as something quite specific. Now he admits that in the case of the method or technique, that a lot of these are driven by spiritual necessity, the advancement of technology for example is a spiritual necessity of Western man. He ties it back to the clocks and bells of the monasteries and formation of calendars and hours. But none of these things themselves are synonymous with religion. They’re just done with a sort of religious fervor. After all, Spengler suggests that domination, dogma, and universalization are actually not fundamentally religious features but unique features of Western culture, which can be found then both in Western religion and Western science alike.
Spengler is not that interesting, he alternates between platitudes (cultures are unique, live and die like an organism, no way) and a lot of mystical-infused speculation. I prefer Glubb's essay on the fate of empires, which is much more accurate and grounded in evidence.
>>24762113He started writing in 1911 and finished in 1914
>>24762113It was written before WW1 you retard
>>24762173What you said about second religiousness also applies to stuff like fertility rates. The state can use financial and other incentives to boost fertility rates, but it's like swimming upstream, the era is that of rationality and you can't rationalise life, whereas previous eras were naturally fertile
>>24762150>A nazi would never accept this and bricks you with universal absolutist ethics and culture where he feels on the top.It's funny because this is literally one of the last things Hitler has come to talk abouthttps://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler>In saying this, I promise you I am quite free of all racial hatred. It is, in any case, undesirable that one race should mix with other races. Except for a few gratuitous successes, which I am prepared to admit, systematic cross-breeding has never produced good results. Its desire to remain racially pure is a proof of the vitality and good health of a race. Pride in one's own race—and that does not imply contempt for other races—is also a normal and healthy sentiment. I have never regarded the Chinese or the Japanese as being inferior to ourselves. They belong to ancient civilisations, and I admit freely that their past history is superior to our own. They have the right to be proud of their past, just as we have the right to be proud of the civilisation to which we belong. Indeed, I believe the more steadfast the Chinese and the Japanese remain in their pride of race, the easier I shall find it to get on with them.
