these two (and the pre-Socratics in general) aren't given enough credit for shaping the foundations of Western philosophy.even Protagoras' attempt to prove the theory of non-contradiction through relativism is truly important to everything that's come after, especially to metaphysics all the way to Hegel
>>24754953they were mentally ill cult leaders who mind broke plato, the guy who did mushrooms during a cult ritual and went completely insane, ruining philosophy for all time. >HegelHegel is the most evil person who ever lived. His nightmare philosophy keeps me up at night.
>>24754953What are you even talking about. Plato has a dialogue named Parmenedies, and Cratylus was a disciple of Heraclitus. Anyone who knows anything about Western philosophy knows of these two and their fragments.
>>24754953you could at least do the courtesy of telling us who these two are
>>24756711It's Parmenides of Elea and Heraclitus of Ephesus. If you have even been on this board one week you should know that.
>>24756818lol I wish this board was that good
>>24755803platos dialogues are mostly fan fiction, read the actual fragments
>>24755730FPBP
>>24755803There's a section on Heraclitus within Eryximachus' speech in Symposium on discord in music too.
>>24754953Any good books on the philosophy of Heraclitus specifically? I am familiar with Plato, Aristotle and the Stoics and I've read Robin Waterfield's entry on Heraclitus in The First Philosophers.
>>24759261I have read Brooks Haxton’s translation of Heraclitus as well as Hegel’s book on the presocratics. The part on Heraclitus draws heavily from sextus enpiricus who equates his fire with time so Sextus Empiricus writings on Heraclitus would also be a good secondary resource to use. There. That’s three separate resources in one post.
>>24759261The Hegel lectures from Jena college as translated by Robert F Brown I am referring to.
>>24756818nigga, people here can't even recognize Euripides. Post a low res picture of a G.R.R. Martin's rectum and nearly everyone knows who you are talking about.
>>24760935Well I apologize if my comment seemed rude. It is Heraclitus (Ephesian who saw change and time as all their is and everything as relative ala Einstein) and Parmenides (monist who saw everything as an indivisible one akin to Adaita Vedanta of India).
>>24760956>einstein thought everything is relativeThis is what pop sci does to your brain.
>>24761056He believed TIME was relative which in essence is what Heraclitus thought. Thank you for taking my comment out of context.
>>24761056Albert Einstein and the ancient Greek philosopher Heraclitus shared philosophical similarities, particularly in their emphasis on dynamic, interconnected systems, the flow of time, and the concept of a unified but evolving reality, where opposing forces are essential for balance. Both also displayed a skepticism towards conventional thinking, believing that understanding nature required a deeper philosophical and scientific inquiry that challenged established ideas. Dynamic Universe and FluxHeraclitus's Flux: The core of Heraclitus's philosophy was the idea of "flux," a concept that everything is in a state of constant change and motion, symbolized by his famous assertion that "no man ever steps into the same river twice". Einstein's Dynamic Systems: Einstein's work, particularly his theory of relativity, described a dynamic universe where space-time is interconnected and affected by mass and energy. This aligns with Heraclitus's concept of a constantly changing and flowing cosmos, which he likened to an eternal fire that kindles and is quenched in measures. Unity of OppositesHeraclitus's Unity: Heraclitus believed in the unity of opposites, where seemingly contradictory forces are in fact part of a larger, interconnected whole. For example, he stated, "The way up and the way down are one and the same path". Einstein's Interplay of Forces: In his theories, Einstein showed how fundamental forces like gravity and electromagnetism are manifestations of the same universal processes. The concept of time dilation, for instance, demonstrates that mass (a form of condensed energy) and energy are intrinsically linked, reflecting a unity of opposites in the physical universe.
>>24761093Protagotas' idea of "man is the measure of all things " seems closer to Einstein's theory of relativity than Panta rei
>>24761107Read the thing from Google AI which I posted above your comment.
>>24761109>Muh ai!!!Kys
>>24762378>everything contradicts itself and things are in motion while being of one overarching substance (fire/ matter)>time is the standard by which things change over and over yet return to the same source>things seemingly opposing one another but ultimately working in tandem These are the similarities.
>>24754953Hegel was right about Heraclitus. Plato and even Aristotle make him a radical empiricist, they subsume him under categories more relevant to their own philosophies, but if you look at the fragments themselves 'becoming' is also conceptual, it isn't just a matter of sensible things always changing but is more profound than that.
>>24761109AI posting should be a permanent ban.
>>24762879It was easier to just search and copy and paste the similarities rather than write out a whole thing.
>>24758476Brooks Haxton for HeraclitusRaphael for Parmenides (Aurea vidya publishing house)I also recommend this lovely short film with translations done to French by Moira Tierney.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nhLxgLBji48&pp=ygUXaGVyYWNsaXR1cyBsb2JzY3VyIDE5Njc%3D
>all these pseuds busting a nut over primitive, fragmentary philosophers>not a one has read Aristotle's Metaphysics
>>24762936Make a thread on Aristotle if you want to talk Aristotle.
>>24762936Aristotle himself respected the presocratics.
