Any books on this phenomenon? I've noticed increasingly that the traditional incel theories on chads dominating the sexual marketplace are obsolete. The dating market seems now to be further oriented in women's favour. All men who 20 years ago you would consider "jocks" or "chads" drowning in pussy I meet these days seem to be struggling getting women as much as average men. Social media has given women so many options that even jocks now have to resort to simping for months or even years for a crumb of pussy. Social media has given women the satisfaction of validation without ever having to put out-even for chad. Why fuck one chad and become beholden to him when I can have 50 simping for me and I don't even have to leave the house for my validation? Incels seem behind on this. So any literature on this? All I can find is the old fashioned pick-up artist and incel stuff about "alpha males" who it appears are a dying breed.
>>24757277The reason you can't find anything on that is because inceldom is an internet theory created by its own. The blind leading the blind. Declining birth rates and all the other blah blah stuff the MSM is spewing have nothing to do with weird guys online.
>>24757277I think it's more that our society has developed an obsession with sex because it is one of the very last things to be fully commercialized and commodified. As such, it is one of the last sources of "validation" open to men. Men who are disconnected from any overarching philosophy or religion end up obsessing over sexual conquest because their life has no other organizing telos outside "success." This is the challenge of what Taylor calls "exclusive humanism," a uniquely modern mode where worldly, largely consumable goods become the exclusive goods worth organizing a life around.You could think of this in terms of the old three parts of the soul: epithumia (bodily appetites), thymos (honor, recognition), and logos (knowledge and pursuit of what is known as truly good). We live in a logos skeptical climate. Thymos is why men splurge on off-road trucks to commute to their office park jobs and but tactical everything. But the loneliness epidemic and lack of friendships means sex is also a huge source here. All the social institutions that once fed this need have collapsed.Finally, there is epithumia, which includes safety, and so is the organizing principle of both conservative free market and progressive liberalism.If you look at the data, people have less sex and fewer partners today, but still more than the first generations for which there is data (the Boomers being the high point for sex, drugs, crime, etc.). But we have very good reason to think the Greatest Generation and their parents were having far more partners than their parents and grandparents, since everyone at the time was saying this. Go further back and people have even less partners. Also, as any parent of a significantly sized family can tell you, you aren't having sex all the time with 6 or even 3 kids. It is exhausting. The obsession with sex seem me to be an outgrowth of the fact that people are increasingly not parents, or only have 1-2 kids who they outsource raising to day cares and the state. It's a sort of permanent adolescence that goes along with the liberal idea that freedom is simply "freedom to choose what I want and power," often consumer power, rather than the capacity of self-governance and self-determination directed towards the Good (which all the ancients and medievals of East and West have in mind with "freedom.")The "alpha male" you describe is more just a fantasy generated by our era, just as the Ubermensch is the fever dream of the Last Man (Nietzsche being an obvious early Last Man and incel).But this sort of image, the man of power aggressively pursuing epithumia, is a sort of mirage. Such a man is simply a slave to his vices, incapable of communicating goodness and handing it down to his sons.
These types of mating patterns are normal among non-monogamous animals. If you look at elephant seals you'll find one alpha male who will have a harem of 50+ female seals, while all the other male seals are incels creeping around the periphery of harem hoping to poach (or even rape) a female while the alpha doesn't pay attention. Human beings are reverting to a similar state as a consequence of various social and cultural changes.
>>24757277It's called the oofy doofy theory, HBTDL was talking about it a long time ago.
>>24757347The real red pill is looking at what autonomous systems are doing to warfare. Relatively high economic equality and equality under the law are products of a long period where mass mobilization, both economic and military, was required to win wars. Gains in political and economic liberty and power for the non-elites was largely driven by the need to mobilized them for winning wars.But war is being changed today in a manner comparable to the advent of gunpowder (which brought on mass mobilization) or the stirrup (which allowed a small professional elite to dominate vastly larger mobilized amateurs). This transition is far more like the stirrup. Small cadres of elite professionals with autonomous systems can now rout mass mobilized militaries in conventional warfare. Only a distaste for the old strategies of mass starvation and genocide allow insurgents to stand a decent chance (the reality is that most insurgencies since 1945 have failed and fail more often than non-violent protest movements because most are against thirdie states that just genocide them into submission).What happens to political rights when the great mass of the people are militarily irrelevant? What happens when AI increasingly makes much of the masses economically irrelevant? I would argue we have already seen this is black ghettos in America's inner city after deindustrialization and Appalachia, etc. The family collapses, all social structures fail, and they turn to drugs and cheap electronic entertainment and live on handouts meant to keep them happy.Revolt? The same technologies that will let elite soldiers with autonomous artillery and spotters rape a guerilla force with constant, incredibly accurate fire missions from UGVs using smart shells also allow for comprehensive mass surveillance, while the shift to a platform and rent based economy, already well underway, gives all the leverage to the top.Techno-feudalism is coming either way. The only question is if treating the masses well can become enough of a humanitarian or prestige project to not make it awful. Already, elites feel more solidarity with each other across national borders than they do with their own poor and working classes. It's very much like medieval times with that shift.Secular humanism and empiricist naturalism, dogmas themselves of course, also erode any faith in a discoverable human good or hard moral code, so everything becomes about maximizing the self, even for the elite who would have been leaders and shepherds in an earlier era. The new feudalism might very well be uglier than the old because of this.
>>24757347Humans aren't sealsAppeals to nature are retarded if I wanted to make a pro-troon argument I could point to how male seahorses give birth and it would be equally invalid
>>24757417this is also how human reproduction worked before civilization imposed monogamous marriage. you can estimate it from modern genetic diversity. women were much more likely to leave offspring than males.
>>24757387Industrialized war is dysgenicModern Roboticized war is even more so
>>24757277Otto Weininger - Sex and Character
>>24757277Industrial Society and Its Future, unironically
>>24757277>Social media has given women so many options that even jocks now have to resort to simping for months or even years for a crumb of pussyThis is simply not true
>blahblahblah it's impossible to get laidI'm not attractive or likeable and I just actually go up to women and I always have at least one fling going. There's nothing deeper to it than you being a loser who doesn't talk to people.
>>24757501>I just actually go up to womenFaggot
>>24757277Who the fuck cares about what is concerning roasties? Sex robots and artificial wombs are literally here. Women question is over.
>>24757417If human males were physiologically similar to seahorses and capable of giving birth you might derive certain insights from seahorses applicable to human beings, but they're not so it's false comparison. Polygamous mating patterns are extremely common in mammals, including other primates like gorillas and chimpanzees and there's no reason to believe humans are somehow magically exempt from this. Women strongly gravitate towards the top-end of sexually dimorphic males as it is, and when unmediated by social mores this goes into overdrive and you end up with harem type situations. There's historical precedence for it, and it seems to be happen once again in our current times.
>>24757340>Ubermensch is the fever dream of the Last Man (Nietzsche being an obvious early Last Man and incelCan you elaborate more on this?
>>24757536Yeah. Nitzche was a fucking loser
Nietzsche is reddit
>>24757340On the other hand sex is the most commercialized thing in the world. It’s called prostitution, which despite the old institutions illegal status has never been more common. The point of this commodification is estrangement from the resource value. The analogy is American finance where the valuation of the dollar and assets are totally divorced from real use-value. Sex no longer means sex, the sexual characteristics of women are to be exploited to gain some vague attention of being “sexy” and “hot” (this latter word did not used to be in so frequent usage). This is just usury on the carnal plain, and of course Dante place the usurers next to the sodomites in the hell—and modern society is optimal for the lifestyles of gay menYour “Nietzsche was a Last Man” comment to book end your ChatGPT explication is just the impotent envy of an inferior person. N. is one of the greatest stylists in any language ever.
>>24757340Very good analysis anon.
>>24757525It was nothing to do with modern times hypergamy which is almost completely sterile. Polygamy is natural but not as some kine of 50 to 1 ratio. See Muslims and more recently Mormons, polygamy works
>>24757387Political forcing theories like this get lost in spectacle. They fall apart because they place the economy secondary to political force, even though political force grows out of the economy. Warfare in the era of capitalism is just a battle of which economy can produce weaponry at scale, and can innovate over the enemy's weaponry.Innovation also has impacts to the economy as a whole, resulting in automation that reduces the amount of humans needed to perform production, which reduces the amount of surplus value generated in total. This shrinks the pie from which wages and profits can be sliced. While this pie can be grown through imperialism and the discovery of new markets, such things are only transients and and the pie must keep shrinking.This stagnation applies to both the people and the elites. If a techno-feudal coup were attempted, even if it were successful, its implementation would face declining employment of police and soldiers due to the falling rates of profit, which would result in the collapse of the system due to its inability to exert political force.Well almost. The competitive forces between capitalists compel them to eventually compete over resources from which to extract value with the political force that they've built, i.e. a war. The next time a war breaks out with the advanced modern weapons we have will likely be the last war we fight as a species. Some of us will simply evaporate in holy nuclear fire, with the rest facing mass starvation in a brutal nuclear winter.>>24757277See above. Marx's critique of political economy is a good basis, though it is an extremely dense book and takes a while to understand.The "decline of the alpha male" is really just a factor secondary to the economy, as it was economic conditions that led to the "rise of the alpha male". As the economy stagnates, you're going to see more and more men failing to receive the things that were promised to them if they performed masculinity the prescribed way. This leads to incel movements, etc.
>>24757387A rent based economy is completely unsustainable. What’s more likely is China becomes the global superpower and destroys our suicidal elite
>>24757536Nietzsche saw the problem of modern degenerating into bovine consumers whose life revolved around animal pleasures and safety. He was in a sense one of these himself. And so he conjured up and ideal of a sort of superhuman who could resist the temptations of humanity while also acting as his own wellspring of values.But this isn't actually transcending modernity. It is just hyper modernity. He sees that "God" cannot be the source of value but then basically just takes the Calvinist conception of God and applies it to the Will to Power. So the issue of value being ultimately groundless and freedom, at its limit, degenerating into mere arbitrariness remains unresolved.It is telling that in Nietzsche's "historical" analysis (which is more creative fiction than history) he projects back the particular deficits of Christianity within his own German Protestant pietism milieu, as transformed by mass culture and mass politics, as well as industrialization and capitalism onto the ancient and medieval periods. He cannot escape his own period and do is doomed to merely absolutize it.
>>24757486this, we truly live in the worst timeline. Why didn't we just remain hunter gatherers and live life as nature intended
>>24757501Nobody said it's impossible to get laid you retard
Sex saps a man of his vigor and necessary energies to be productive. Fapping doesn’t reduce a man to the state of a bedpan like sex does.
>>24757612>Your “Nietzsche was a Last Man” comment to book end your ChatGPT explication is just the impotent envy of an inferior person. N. is one of the greatest stylists in any language ever.I don't disagree that he was a great stylist nor a great diagnostician of the incoherence of Enlightenment ethics. I merely point out that he was spiritually sick. Anyone familiar with his biography knows that he suffered from two prolonged cases of what we would today call "oneitus" where he was "friend zoned." That's where the bitter screeds against woman comes from.When Nietzsche introspected, he found a warring "congress of souls," a violent tempest of warring appetites and sensations. So did Hume. Plato and the Desert Fathers and the sages of East and West don't contradict them here. They all say this is exactly what the soul is like...when it is sick. Nietzsche simply makes the mistake of thinking this sickness is unavoidable and projects it onto all other men.
>>24757417We are not seahorses, tranny.>evolutionThe biggest lie is that its merely coincidence that things are the way they are. There are no coincidences in this World.
>>24757702Holy cope.
>>24757709Sorry you weren’t good enough for the rapture.
>>24757525The example I had in mind when I posted that was JBP's lobster obsession in particular
>>24757463Because men died hunting leaving a smaller pool of men who could reproduce
>>24757277>article screencap>not discussing books himself>p-please get riled up over this! women are evil!worthless /pol/ nigger thread
>>24757277>women are becoming more successfulAt not having kids and dying alone.
>>24757277>new yorker fontdropped
>>24757805the difference grew even more pronounced shortly after the adoption of agriculture, when apparently the ratio became 17 reproducing women to 1 reproducing man. they weren't dying while hunting, the were just not allowed to reproduce.
>>24757707>“Oneitis”Youre such a faggot it defies the human understandingIt is funny that he felt his true love to be Cosina (Liszt, Bulow) Wagner. Why this should make him der Letzen Mann according to the faggots of 4chan dot org? Youre like the people who call Beethoven an incel. You don’t belong near discussions of culture, go watch some Netflix and call it a day
Every generation thinks the generation that follows is "soft." All that changes is the lingo.Kids Today™ have lousy taste in music, too.
>>24757843Source?
>>24757634BasedRegime change for the west NOW
>>24757918https://psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success/
>>24757925Some things never change, eh? Interesting article, thank you
>>24757925>the researchers plan further studies>no updates since 2015
>>24757387>>24757634you guys are knocking on nothing other than the taproot of the next world war. the writing is on the wall that the current western cadre of "elites" (really kleptocrats, there is nothing elite to them other than their ability to hoodwink and bloodsuck the rest of civilization) will sooner begin mass exteriminating the general public than allow a shift in the balance of power or revolution when technological systems are about to take on a life of their own. the question is if this will spiral into a nuclear holocaust, if china can/will win and if it does will it be a tyrannical global superpower, or if a near-miraculous last-minute palace revolution takes place in the USA/west to avoid its own cannibalization by the death cult currently in power
>>24757948Cancelled by gamergate Many such cases
>>24757277>The dating market seems now to be further oriented in women's favour.If any of you actually had women friends they would tell you that their tinders are filled to the absolute brim with matches. They are the selectors start to finish, while the apps mind rape men into becoming a pay pig because its entirely pay-to-get-pussy.
>>24757843Agriculture enabled organized warfare and genocide
>>24757948unfortunately the ratio of males vs females allowed to do science has fallen to 1-17 and the women can't figure out how to turn the big computer back on
>>24757965and 95% of the world's males were dying on the battlefield before they could nut in a woman? i don't think so bro
>>24757277being a male heterosexual is a waste of time, in the end Japanese men have concocted a more romantic vision of women than real women, so you are effectively slaving away for the attention of something you know is second-rate. Being a gay man who doesn't feel the need to get AIDS or stick his penis in another man's asshole must be like a superpower, or maybe it's just more of the same agony of life.
>>24757982Yeah, why not? That's what you do when you win, and then you enslave all the women
>>24757988ww2 killed 3% of the global population, but you think prehistoric warfare was killing 95% of all males? with what, orbital lasers?
>>24757277The hidden dimension, by Edward T. Hall.I beg of you READ THAT FUCKING BOOK.
>>24757515Look at this incel loser.
I mean, the clear takeaway here is that the rewards for success are higher than ever, if you can engineer yourself into a position where you do become desirable, you can reproduce at a much more successful rate than your ancestors.Now how to do that, I do not know, but it is a different perspective that I think is worth adopting.
>>24757515The age of the Sexbot shall only matter once they are indistinguishable from real women.
>>24757953>he bought the AI memeI hope you're not in stocks.
>>24758059Incels assume they're indistinguishable already, because they have no basis for comparison.
>>24758062Your rulers are throwing trillions of dollars at it in the hope to create a system that would make Orwell shit his pants to death. Your pessimism is not unique or novel, either.
>>24757277>All men who 20 years ago you would consider "jocks" or "chads" drowning in pussy I meet these days seem to be struggling getting women as much as average men.This is simple. The chad thing is only stage 1. Modern social dynamics have not settled into a stable structure yet. Stage 2 is women just not dating anybody because they're standards are now so high that there are no men in the world that would satisfy them. For whatever reason women would rather stay single forever than settle for a normal real person
>>24757501Yeah but they're all fat and ugly
>>24757501we're talking about macro level social dynamics you retard we don't care about your life
>>24758068your post does not read well, if you don't know how to place a word, do not use it.
>>24758059It's a sliding scale not a boolean value. Many men now settle for sex dolls or just porn which is not realistic in any way>>24758087his post is fine why don't you just engage with the content and stop acting like a weiner?
>>24758015They didn't have "ethics" and "morals" in the Paleolithic Also you don't have to kill, you can also castrate
>>24758098Many men do not have sex dolls precisely because they fail at fooling the public, which is the true objective end of the Sexbot.Having Sasha Grey fellate 12 older men on the verge of having heart-attacks play on your computer screen would not, if shown to an audience, convince any of them that pornography is even remotely close to being an effective surrogate to a sex act.
>>24758059Once sexbots are indistinguishable from real women they will only have sex with robo-Chad. Your best hope will be to make 7 figures so you can be the beta bux of a clanker who goes out to get pounded by robo-Chad on her girls' weekends.
>>24757612You know it's really funny, you can tell a lot about a person from their opinion on Nietzsche. I've yet to find a really worthwhile person who liked him.
>>24758086Yeah the macro level issue is that you and 10 million other men are doomscrolling instead of talking to women.>>24758083False. Also the human mind does this wonderful thing where if you really are down bad and can only bag a woman who is say, a 5, she will suddenly seem much prettier after you start having sex with her.
>>24758353>they didn't fix the bugwhat a nightmare
>>24758235oh man you're dumb. i'm not talking about ethics. do you have a basic capacity to reason about objects in the world? it makes my head hurt trying to picture the inside of your retard brain.
>>24758379probably because Nietzsche was a plagiarist who couldn't fully extrapolate his betters' ideas before he sold them to the public.
>>24758379Pretty much every important writer following him liked him, and you can also include Richard Wagner who liked him personally I when he was basically “nobody”. But hold onto whatever vain opinions you can, whatever makes you feel better
>>24758044Your days are numbered stupid roastie
>>24757277>I've noticed increasingly that the traditional incel theories on chads dominating the sexual marketplace are obsolete.They're not obsolete. The incel theory, a correct theory, is that it's all about facial looks and height. Chadfishing works better than ever and allows anyone to validate the incel theory by A/B testing a dumbass Chad vs. 'le brilliant personality' ugly/normie dude.The problem is that too many people listen to trad chuds and ugly /fit/ powershitter types on what constitutes the attractive alpha male. THEIR ideas are failing.
>>24758082you could just try not being a misogynistic piece of shit. it's not some great mystery why women won't give such guys the time of day.
>>24758469This is patently false. Just off the top of my head Leo Tolstoy call him mentally ill and Bertrand Russell basically calls his writings incel ravings. Chesterton calls his philosophy morbid, and Screwton is pretty savage in his criticism too. Even advocates of Nietzsche like Solomon admit that his screeds against his fellow thinkers have no parallel among famous thinkers and appear to "drip with resentment" (although he is still obviously a huge fan). Very many others have found *something* of value in Nietzsche's thought, but largely as a symptom of what is wrong with modernity (e.g., D.C. Schindler, David Bentley Hart, etc.).In particular, his genealogical work has been savaged as showing a shallow understanding of Christian history, literature, and philosophy; he seemed to think that simply living in a Christian nation as a pastor's son was enough to make one an expert on 2,000 years of history across East and West without any significant research.But the biggest condemnation of Nietzsche by later readers, per his own standards, is the fact that he has become by far and away the most popular thinker of the masses. Look at any philosophy section and you'll see that he dominates. He is the most read thinker of the mass culture, consumerist, Last Man era. Nietzsche is the philosopher of the masses; what your average consumer living under neoliberalism wants a philosopher to be. What could be worse?
>>24758015Wars were historically more deadly in the past and have been getting steadily more deadly. For example, the Thirty Years War alone killed a share of the German population multiple times higher than both World Wars combined. WWI is generally considered to be particularly devastating for France, having "bled it white," and yet deaths as a share of the population from the Huguenot War were 14 times higher. France had a population 33% smaller than Syria in 2011 at the start of that conflict. Think about how bad the Syrian war has been. It killed 600,000. But the French population was much smaller than Syria's back then and it killed 14 million.Most people who served on the Eastern Front lived statistically, German or Soviet. The fatality rate for Latin combatants in the First Crusade is estimated at 66-80%. Rome lost more people than the Vietnam War over several hours at Cannae and scaled to population it would be like the US losing 7.5 million people in a day.New technology actually slows down killing. In Rwanda 800,000 died over a matter of weeks, mostly to fire and machetes. Part of this is a lack of real restraints. Sometimes when cities were sacked it was just indiscriminate slaughter. In the ancient Near East, there was a practice called the "ban" where a city and all its inhabitants, women and children but also animals, would be put to the sword on conquest.But also it's because disease and the rigors of crossing vast distances on foot ravaged armies and war invariably disrupted the foods supply so that starvation rippled outwards, while migration of the weakened brought waves of disease.The Revolutionary War is the second mostly deadly war as a share of the US population, and the deadliest of the small pox epidemic made significantly worse by the war is included. The deadliness of US wars (major ones at least) to pretty much in reverse chronological order except for the Civil War.Consider just travel. Legions had to literally walk across the whole continent of Europe and forage for food and fodder just to get to their battles sometimes.
>>24758250why do you need to show anything to anyone else? We're talking about cumming out of your cock and getting some kind of fulfillment. Why would you have to social proof this?
>>24758404well anon I guess 10 million men have just evolved to a higher state and don't need to talk to women anymore. Here's an idea how about women JUST do something different? I wonder why you don't criticize them
>>24758542This is a non sequitur response. If you actually want to engage honestly I'll reply again
>>24758542I'm a misogynist and women love me. When i choke them they love me more (I can feel them twitch around my cock). Women are shallow like that.
>>24758542>you could just try not being a misogynistic piece of shit. it's not some great mystery why women won't give such guys the time of day.You are a retarded bitch. Some of the most toxic dudes I know regularly fuck.
>>24758809Idk dumbass im getting laid just fine and youre not why dont you get off the fucking phone and go talk to women like I do. No? Then stop taking up the whole fucking website with you pathetic whining you useless piece of shit. Kill yourself. Sincerely.
>>24757340>I think it's more that our society has developed an obsession with sex because it is one of the very last things to be fully commercialized and commodifiedquite possibly one of the most retarded things I have ever read on this website
>>24758865why are you so angry on a weekend night if you're having so much sex? I'm interested in talking about societal phenomenon. I don't care about your life at all and I don't care about sex
>>24758927I'm angry that you're such a fucking loser. It's a benevolent anger. Get your shit together, retard. Pic related is the scene in front of me at this very moment. I'm about to fuck as I type this. You can have this as well. You need only to stop fucking doomscrolling and talk to a woman.
>>24758938lol that's a man
>>24758059>they are indistinguishable from real womenwhy would I waste money in this crap then?
>>24758938Is anyone supposed to feel jealous of the fact you fuck hookers? If it was a cunny hooker I would be impressed
>>24758943>>24758955>anons see an attractive female form dressed in fishnets and have to appeal to their boogeyman copes instead of getting off their fucking phones and talking to a woman
>>24758938tidy up your fucking house
>>24758958is that a single mom? why is there a bunch of kid's shit on the fridge?
>>24758958I only date single mothers with daughters, all my needs are covered anon, fucking grown up bitches is disgusting and hookers even more so
>>24758938>that BMIthat cute little belt ain't hiding shit. plapjak meme is real
>>24758963It is a single mother with a daughter, anon. You aren't very perceptive, are you?
>>24758969Do you fuck the daughter?
>>24757612>—
>>24758938posted this on /pasgen/ and they all clocked him
>>24758938enjoy your boyfriend bro I don't care lol
>>24757515>buy sex bot with ai cognitive upgrade to role play gf>sex bot rejects me because of realistic female behavioral model>ai sex bot gf has been sneaking out when I am at work and in the middle of the night to go to neighbor's apartmenthow to get sex bot refund?
>>24758865>>24758938I know what type of man you are. You've fantasized since your teens years about being a player and womaniser (likely an father who conditioned you into this thinking) and now that you've finally got a girl you twist this in your own head that you're a player who's getting scores of women regularly. A body count of 10 maybe? But you lie to yourself it's 60. No guy who gets lots of bitches is seething on the internet how easy it is to pull to the point of doxxing their girl. You're just trying to convince yourself that you are indeed a "man" by punching down on incels. Your entire sense of masculinity is reliant on women confirming it and because reality doesn't correlate to your masculine ideal that daddy instilled in you, you lie to yourself and others to maintain the illusion.
>>24759247Pretty much entirely wrong. I was just drunk and trying to get all of these annoying incels to touch grass.
>>24759257>immediate replyHehe I hit a soft spot
>>2475926215 minutes is hardly immediate, you failed dedooocer.
>>24759275You posted like 4 hours ago. Why you hanging out on here. Go fuck that harem waiting for you bro!
>>24759276I believe in you. Not really, but I don't want to call you hopeless.
>>24759282Getting pussy isn't a big deal, your bragging disguised as magnanimity betrays your insecurity.
>>24758903No its not, it makes perfect sense. He’s not referring to prostitution, he’s referring to the fact that when a woman chooses you as a lover there is a significant likelihood she’s selecting you for a trait you have that money can’t buy, which implies that you have some kind of intrinsic value.
>>24758667So your examples are a morbidly obese man and a sexual predator. I’ll take Mann, Mishima, Joyce, Yeats. Tolstoy is not after and to care about his opinion, do you know what he thought of Dante and Shakespeare?, is to out yourself as a moron
>>24759338It can be true that sex is extremely commodified and yet its the one region where its still possible for a man to demonstrate some kind of mastery or accomplishment. But still a market ethic has infused this area to an extreme extent. Of course this has always been the case to some extent, marriages being conducted according to financial interest
>>24757277>Any books on this phenomenon?Well, seeing how "the alpha male" is pseudoscientific nonsense, probably not.
>>24759247it's that same pussy who posted a face pic in the wwoym thread. the guy fucked a nasty single mom and now he's on here lecturing everyone to "touch grass".
>>24757340This post proved prescient. For example: >>24758938
>>24757277That's not why people are having less sex. It's because both men and women are now watching porn. Internet porn is high quality and easily accessible thanks to technology, and it's more interesting than sex for most people. Requires less effort and usually involves sexier people. This is the reason why sex is on the decline. Social media and video games serving as distractions are a secondary consequence and impact.
>>24759561it's true. also women listen to a lot porn books now so they now expect every guy to be a billionaire werewolf with a global biz empire and a deep need to have sex with middle aged single moms which is a little bit unrealistic.
>>24758015>ww2 killed 3% of the global population, but you think prehistoric warfare was killing 95% of all males?Yes? Wars were way more brutal before Christianity and Enlightenment. Genocide was the norm.
>>24759609ya did u read city of god? there's some part were augustine off hand mentions some city state that got completely wiped and he's like too bad they weren't christian they could have been martyrs oh well
>>24757965Hunter gatherer societies engage in genocidal warfare fairly often.
>>24759625i mean if someone's hunting and gathering in ur spot, of course you're gonna fuck 'em up, and since there's no agriculture, there's no point in saving any of them as slaves, so just kill them alllll
>>24759639They take women and children as slaves though, at least in the contexts I am familiar with. They are more "thralls" than slaves though, and are eventually absorbed into the new group.
>>24759652idk i've read about them finding women and children including pregnant woman with hack marks on their bones but it's hard to know if that was standard of just a one off by some real assholes
>>24759591It goes both ways. Women are lost in their fantasies but so are men. Men are jerking off to hardcore pornography which involves a degree of effort and submission that is unrealistic and unmanageable for the average woman (not to mention sometimes unhealthy and unsafe). The rise of feminism has at least partially been influenced by the rise of hardcore pornography consumption among men. A lot of feminists are women who unknowingly entered relationships with porn-obsessed men who proceeded to coerce (sometimes even physically force) them into demeaning sexual scenarios (deep throat, anal, etc.) and left them traumatized and believing that all men are depraved and evil.
>>24759609we're not talking about one tribe genociding 95% of another (which would already be a logistical challenge considering people can run for the hills), we're talking about 95% of all males of all tribes globally being killed by violence before they can reproduce, consistently, generation after generation for thousands of years. that's a completely retarded idea on a physical level.
>books about a stupid analogy based on an outdated zoological modelno
>>24759735>Men are jerking off to hardcore pornography which involves a degree of effort and submission that is unrealistic and unmanageable for the average womanIs this true? I masturbate constantly though I would like stop but I don’t go anywhere near what is commonly known as pornography. I feel like to be into that stuff you must be evil. Or your circuits or fried or something
>>24759775no it's just headcanon. If anything, porn addicts are being corralled into sissy hypno farms, furry, etc
>>24759735>The rise of feminism has at least partially been influenced by the rise of hardcore pornography consumption among men.Time line doesn't line up.Only the most recent brand of feminishm could possible be correlated with pornographies rise, unless you think playboy was actually risque.
>>24759591Yeah, everyone knows billionaire werewolves with global business empires tend to prefer traps.
>>24759775The content keeps getting made and costs thousands of dollars to produce, obviously it's true to some extent and probably roughly on par with women cooming over billionaire werewolves.>>24759810Hardcore pornography distribution began pre-internet, it even appeared in the popular TV show Twin Peaks if you're really uninformed about the matter. The internet just ramped up distribution. Also improvements in digital technology contributed to the increased quality.
>>24759829>Hardcore pornography distribution began pre-internetno shit lol. it still doesn't line up because radical feminism arose in the 60s and 70s and heavy porn consumption only become normalized after the mass adoption of vhs in the 80s. back when porn was about putting coins into a machine in the back of a sleazy store to watch a "loop" it was the domain of dedicated perverts, not average men. when dworikin wrote an anti-porn book in the early 80s she had to spend most of it seething about marquis de sade and nude photography. if you showed her "slutilla mcwhore 6 on 1 DAP gangbang with piss" she'd have spontaneously imploded into a black hole.
>>24759829>Hardcore pornography distribution began pre-internetWhich wouldn't explain the first nor second wave of feminism since those predate those time periods.You could make an argument for the third and modern wave being correlated.But it is clear feminism at it's core could not have been caused by pornography
>>24759868>it still doesn't line up because radical feminism arose in the 60s and 70sThe culture that gave birth to hardcore pornography already existed. I also said that hardcore pornography wasn't the sole influence of radical feminism. There have been several factors.>>24759869Again, I never said hardcore pornography is solely to blame. But it very obviously contributed, as did the culture that gave birth to it (that book about seduction talks a lot about the predatory men who lived during the early decades of the film industry, for example, way before the 60s). Don Juan was written a long time ago also.
>>24757340>it is one of the very last things to be fully commercialized and commodified.What the fuck does that even mean?
>>24757340You do not need some Logos to do any of this. Buddhism is proof of that. In fact, the modern Logos can just as easily be defined as seeing sex as what is truly good. Haven't you seen those philosopher vs. Biologist memes where the biologist just says that the meaning of life is to have sex? That is a logos whether you like it or not.
>>24757469Evolution tends toward the current environment. In fact, the environment is the only thing that dictates fitness
>>24757657Nature does not intend anything. This is all the product of nature.
I love of Catholics always try to appropriate Logos and twist it inyo some irrational principle that automatically affirms their faith, far abd removed from the way tge greeks actually intended. It's particularly obvious, because tgey can talk on and on about the idea of "goodness" but never actually explain what particular thing is good and why without just blindly referring to Aristotle
>>24759735>coerce (sometimes even physically force)What's the difference?
>>24759735>A lot of feminists are women who unknowingly entered relationships with porn-obsessed menDo you have any evidence for this claim? Is radfeminism really just women being grumpy about how men will not do exactly what they want them to do?
>>24759935Emotional manipulation versus physical force.>>24759943I don't have evidence but it seems obvious and common sense given what I have heard and read some women say both in person and online, and what I know about men.
>>24759943>Is radfeminism really just women being grumpy about how men will not do exactly what they want them to do?always has been.
>>24757277I wrote an essay on the eventual elimination of women. I've also seen appropriations of Marxist rhetoric in the incel movement, just substitute 1% of the rich own 99% of the wealth with 1% of men owning 99% of pussy. This angers Marxists because it goes against social progressivism but is instead just another step forward in the dialectic.
>>24758451>violent animals without self-awareness won't annihilate their competition to get an advantageLol
>>24759625Just not at scale
>>24759744Your alternative proposition is that Paleolithic incels just sat on their hands while getting cucked by Grug because they respected property rights
>>24757964You seem to agree with the statement then, why the standoffish approach to your reply?
>>24758082We are already in Stage 2. Women don't even have to have physical contact with a man, prostitution or starring in porn with a man to earn enough to live independantly in a detached house. They don't even need to show their face if they actually bother to write good dialogue and sound sexy. In fact they don't even need to act sexy or show their face, or be hot at all, just learn how to simulate a girlfriend's attitude with their voice and become a VTuber. It's never been easier to make money as a woman, it's basically cheating.
>>24758947socially, not totally, obviously they wouldn't shit or piss or sweat, get pregnant or cheat on you. Indistinguishable from the perspective of an idealised woman.
>>24759735anon women are the ones googling free use, non-consent, serial killer break-ins and hostage porn, not men.I could go for years just watching huge tits jiggle whilst the woman is speaking.
>>24759916Christians have been I'll talk to my priest about this-ing for millenia, this is nothing new, they quite literally do not think.
>>24760029It's both. That also doesn't mean all men and women are searching for that content. The ones that aren't are at least sometimes feminists. And this is just some of the feminists (not all).
>>24760036I mean, do your own research, I've READ female gooner shit that makes filmed faux-gang-rape look tame. I'm not a moralfag and I don't believe in censoring the human instinct for creation, but anon, women just hide behind the fact that books are not graphic and have no actors. They just teehee-ify it, "rape" is now "dark fantasy", seriously I mean I don't want to get banned/off-topic on here by mentioning a like-wise darkweb event. But NORMIE women are kindlegooning to shit that if it was filmed, a man would be ostracised for LIFE for downloading.
>>24760051The one who needs to do research is you, not me. My dataset is already more comprehensive than yours. By the way, at no point did I ever deny or suggest that there aren't women into hardcore pornography as well, and their existence doesn't change any of the points I've made, since I never made the point that it's only men or that only hardcore pornography is to blame for feminism.
>>24760057>no uaudibly sighed
>>24760057>there aren't women into hardcore pornography as wellthe entirety of the true crime genre is held up by women>My dataset is already more comprehensive than yours.trolling belongs in >>>/b/
>>24759893>But it very obviously contributed, as did the culture that gave birth to itThat's a stretch, especially considering that third wave feminism, which formed during the first mass exposure to hardcore porn were pro-sex work.Show your work here.
>>24760060You read that post wrong.>>24760073This is like saying the internet hasn't had any impact on the world. It doesn't even warrant an address, it's just a retarded point to make.
>>24760086>You read that post wrong.i quoted it too thinly but i didn't read it wrong
>>24760086>It doesn't even warrant an address, it's just a retarded point to make.Then it should be really easy to prove it, shouldn't it.>Nah it's all common sense, just trust my vibes broThis isn't how discussions work
>>24760097You did read it wrong, I am well aware that some women are into hardcore porn. And it doesn't make a difference to me or my points.
>>24760086>This is like saying the internet hasn't had any impact on the worldIt's quite reasonable to say that it hasn't. You obfuscate the matter by retreating to overly general language. The internet hasn't brought about any new behavior, only intensified what has already existed. In this sense there is no "new" impact, although yes, the magnitude of certain phenomena is larger, effects are more acute perhaps, so on and so forth. But it's perfectly reasonable to say nothing has changed.We might take an example: Uber is new, of the internet, made everyone a lot of money. But it's just taxi cabs you can order on your phone. It has made no substantial "impact" in a perfectly valid way of thinking, talking.
>>24760106>And it doesn't make a difference to me or my poinit's not just that "some" women "like" it. It's that all of them LOVE it and in fact they support the whole goddamn market.
>>24759953>Emotional manipulationThat's just part and parcel of being in a relationship.>I don't have evidence but it seems obviousI mean, it is obvious that the crux of people's meaningless gripes can be reduced to the fact that other people will not do what they want them to do. But I fail to see ho that means you should give creadence to the gripes of these most likely biased individuals.>Christians have been I'll talk to my priest about this-ing for milleniaTrue. But then again, the same can be said for most people. Herds will always exist, it seems.
>>24758865Sex really does absolutely nothing for people, as this post shows.
>>24760117yes, talking at length to this anon has made it clear they've just stepped out from a time machine last seen 20 or 30 years ago, the last time they dipped their foot in real discourse. Perhaps they're an older woman trying to figure out how democrats can win back young men.
>>24760100>Then it should be really easy to prove it, shouldn't it. No, not necessarily. For me it is also very easy to prove. I have many women in my life, including my wife.>>24760114>The internet hasn't brought about any new behavior, only intensified what has already existed.Somewhat true but also not entirely true. I agree that our desires exist prior to contact (we are animals, after all), but stimulation and new data does affect how we think and behave, and then affects our experiences, memories and so on. It's not as clear cut as you suggest and I don't think it's a simple matter either.>>24760117You need to step outside your sphere of life occasionally, your dataset is too narrow for this discussion.>>24760127>That's just part and parcel of being in a relationshipA relationship is about negging and using fear and blackmail to force someone else to do things that make them feel shame, guilt, and suicidal feelings afterwards? Lol
>>24758083The part that no one says out loud about the sexual marketplace is that skyrocketing obesity rates have consistently whittled down the pool of women that men actively put in effort to attain. The sexual "middle class" of 4-6s has seen a lot of it's numbers fall down a few notches when most of them get fat on top of their other flaws, and the women who manage to keep their weight in check get a higher concentration of male attention
>>24760169>I have many women in my life, including my wife. The plural of ancedote is not data
>>24760181Reducing the data to just available market data is disingenuous. I haven't reduced the data in any way, by the way, only you have done this.
>>24760169>You need to step outside your sphere of life occasionallyyou need to stop projecting> It's not as clear cut as you suggest and I don't think it's a simple matter either.no, it's not as clear cut as YOU suggest—that was MY response to YOU you fucking cretin
>>24759912Humans don't believe that they are part of nature. We think we are above it, as masters and/or caretakers. Even as we do lipservice to evolutionary biology, we contradict it constantly and involuntarily with anthropocentric "dominion mandate" thinking and policy
>>24759980we're talking about the neolithic but yes. i mean, what are they doing now?
if a lion could speak, we could not understand himI ask you to understand this, there will be no other insight
>>24757277Rape accusations destroy fornication culture. One can ruin a man's repuation and finances if he slips up once and so no matter how attractive thehey havet girls their nuclear optionss and that possibility of a woman going nuclear ends the fornication social contract. Before, men said they would be good, dumb feminists, or pretend to be, to have sexual access to unmarried women, effectively all of them became free whores pimped out by a broken culture. Given the likelihood, or fringe possibility, of total reputational death without any legal or social recourse and men's total lack of trust in women as equally rational actors, men now have given up the feminist fornicator's social contract in favor of traditional models given women are not emotionally capable of this trade-off nor of the feminism it relies on.
>>24760248No. Everything that man does is perfectly natural. There is virtually no value to be had in the natural world that isn't a pure contrivance
>>24760169>A relationship is about negging and using fear and blackmail to force someone else to do things that make them feel shame, guilt, and suicidal feelings afterwards?Yeah. Lol indeed. Have fun hounding after that perfect ideal mate who will jive with everything that you do.
I like pussy. I will continue to do things that get me pussy. Simple as.
>>24760086EN WORD Valeria Solanus was a PROSTITUTE, Dworkin was a PROSTITUTE, Beauvoir wanted to schoolgirls to be able to SELL PUSSY
>>24760169>my datasetunless you are single-handedly re-building your own text-scraping of millions of websites, all likelihood is that you're using what everyone else is using which is 60% quora and reddit.
>>24760169when my mother died and my father was left to ponder what life was really all about for at least a few months, I saw an unfiltered view of what he thought of many things, he didn't really talk about women during that period, but once he got a new girlfriend, suddenly he had all these opinions that seemed to come out of thin air, basically what I'm trying to say is that the price you pay for love is being blinded.
>>24760747She's literally not talking about any data. She means that she feels she's lived a well-rounded enough life that his personal anecdotes constitute a fair and unbiased "data-set." Complete garbage and no adherence to language, characteristic left-wing drivel, jewish pilpul, etc etc
>>24759247You've made this all up in your head to cope about the fact that he's getting pussy and you're notWhatever gets you to sleep at night, incel freaknow back to >>>/r9k/
How the fuck is this thread still up? Take this shit to /r9k/
>>24760747Dataset does not literally refer to a digital dataset, retard. It's just an analogy for knowledge.>>24760780>SheI'm a guy married to a woman. I can tell from the language you use>no adherence to language, characteristic left-wing drivel, jewish pilpul, etc etcthat you're not married and most likely were never in a loving relationship.
>>24760051I don't think the written stuff is ok either because it's still conditioning your brain into weird shit, but not relying on (possibly trafficked, possibly exploited) actors is a pretty substantial moral difference.
>>24760805My man. The guy he's replying to was frothing at some guys online despite the fact that he apperantly has the only thing in this world that is worth coveting (sex). He was 100% correct in his analysis. These people are not well when they have to take candid photos of their sex toys to prove their worth to a bunch of strangers on the internet. It's just what retards do because they are too stupid for an actual argument or reading.
>>24760940People in porn are about as trafficked and exploited as your average worker. This is doubly meaningless in the wake of amateur porn from onlyfans and the like. Really, the only reason anyone would have any reason to object to porn is either because of some arbitrary view of sex as this sacred thing or the principled view that pleasure is bad in an ethical sense, which you people obviously don't think, being essentially hedonists.
