Delphic charioteer edition>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·>>24732139>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw>Mέγα τὸ ANE·https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg>Work in progress FAQhttps://rentry dot co/n8nrkoAll Classical languages are welcome.
>>24763639Their understanding may still be biased by Mandarin, much like how there are passages in Shakespeare ("wherefore art thou Romeo?") or the King James Bible ("avoid all appearance of evil") that modern English speakers tend to misunderstand.
Bump.I ordered Loeb’s Daphnis and Chloe today. I will start a translation reading next month when it arrives. I was the one who said he would translate the Greek excerpts on the Orestes Laskos film as I got to that part of the book- it is rather short
Link:https://m.ok.ru/video/15071316681The Greek inter titles are from the story though with an updated translation from Votreides. I figured as I got to the but in the book I would take apart the sentences in Loeb and then watch the film on screen.
What text did you find the most annoying to get through? For any reason
>>24763900De res publica by Kikero because of his double chin
>>24763784Roll
“But no matter how much the water reflects on her naked body it doesn’t diminish her purity.” -Longus
>>24763954>De Homine Insulso Qui Existimavit Duos Cunnos In Uxore>Homo e nostris rusticanus, et haud multum prudens, certe in coitu mulierum rudis, sumpta uxore, cum illa aliquando in lecto renes versus virum volvens, nates in ejus gremio posuisset, erecto telo uxorem casu cognovit. Admiratusque postmodum et rogans mulierem, an duos cunnos haberet, cum illa annuisset: 'Ho, ho,' inquit, 'mihi unus satis est, alter vero superfluus.' Tum callida uxor, quae a Sacerdote parochiano diligebatur: 'Possumus,' inquit, 'ex hoc eleemosynam facere; demus eum Ecclesiae et Sacerdoti nostro, cui haec res erit gratissima, et tibi nihil oberit, cum unus sufficiat tibi.' Assentit vir uxori, et in gratiam sacerdotis, et ut se onere superfluo levaret. Igitur, eo vocato ad cenam, causaque exposita, cum sumpto cibo lectum unum tres ingrederentur, ita ut mulier media esset, vir anteriori parte, posteriori alter ex dono uteretur, Sacerdos famelicus concupitique cibi avidus, prior aggreditur aciem sibi commissam: qua in re uxor quoque submurmurans strepitum quemdam edebat. Tunc vir timens ne partes suas aggrederetur: 'Serva,' inquit, 'amice, inter nos conventa, et tua portione utere, meam intactam relinquens.' Huic Sacerdos: 'Det mihi gratiam Deus,' inquit, 'nam tua parvi facio, ut bonis tantum Ecclesiae uti possim.' His verbis acquiescens stultus ille, quod Ecclesiae concesserat, libere uti iussit.I'm confused by the line the priest says at the end.>'nam tua parvi facio, ut bonis tantum Ecclesiae uti possim."I make yours small, that I may just use the goods of the Church."What means?
>>24764103Nevermind, I thought there was some innuendo I was missing, but it makes sense that he just means "your portion means little to me as long as I can use the portion given to the Church."Anyways this was a good find. I'll be reading more of the Facetiae.
>>24764140Neat
>>24763784ROLL
>>24763784>>24764299Reroll for Thomas More
>>24764299>>24764301>>24763784What do I think about this /clg/?
>>24763667English speakers misunderstand Shakespeare because they treat it as modern English and don't bother to learn the differences in meaning and syntax between it and modern Englishthe distance between CC and Mandarin is much greater, as you know, and everyone has to study it specifically to understand it - Mandarin speakers don't simply treat it as if it were Mandarin like English speakers do with ShakespeareI understand that they may be biased by Mandarin, such as my understanding of CC is biased by English, but I don't see how it would lead to misunderstandings. Mandarin speakers don't assume that CC words mean the same as they do in Mandarin. Could you give an example?
>>24764678They may be aware that many words mean different things, but there are also many words that mean the same, and it's possible to confuse the two categories. For example, in Tang poetry, 床 often means a well-railing, but modern readers are known to misinterpret it as "bed".
>>24764301hey it's iBBW!
Reminder: the only way to truly learn Latin is to memorize every grammar rule (taught in English with contextless, isolated sentences as examples) and immediately jump into Virgil.
Best way to get to Virgil is reading 3rd grade Latin prose for 5 years
>>24763900Despite the shitpost I agree about Cicero's De Re Publica. The sole surviving manuscript is a heavily corrupted palimpsest missing multiple sections and pages. It is hard to go more than a couple paragraphs without a significant lacuna of most likely several paragraphs. I still hold some small hope that someday someone will uncover a lost manuscript of the text because the parts that exist aren't bad.
>>24765078Start with Pharr, you’ll go far.
>>24764704Nigga are you trying to say that one poem says “the moonlight shines at the foot of my *well railing” and not “moonlight shines at the foot of my bed?” This chigga was getting nostalgic staring at a well in the middle of a frosty night?”床前明月光… and so forth IIRC.Something tells me sirry bru eyed 白鬼 intellectuals are way more likely to “ummm ackshually” their way into incorrect readings than for people who used 文言文 as their sole written style until 1920.
>>24764931I banged dad’s wife.>>24765082So it will take at least 6 years for a student to reach LLPSI chapter 34?>>24765078If you learn this way it’s your duty to read as little Latin as possible and spend your days on 4chan/reddit flexing your degree and questioning peoples’ usage of case endings or snidely calling their Latin shit without ever producing any of your own. Don’t forget to worship the beautiful sentences of Kikero when you can’t even read Caesar or the gospels unassisted.
>>24765323Okay, there's some disagreement on that particular poem, but it at least may mean "well-railing", and there are other cases where it definitely doesn't mean "bed", like 遶床弄青梅 (most glosses I've seen explain it as a well-railing but a couple have explained it as a bench).>Something tells me sirry bru eyed 白鬼 intellectuals are way more likely to “ummm ackshually” their way into incorrect readings than for people who used 文言文 as their sole written style until 1920.First of all, many of these readings are based on traditional commentaries and understandings, it's just that a modern Mandarin speaker may not know them unless they're thoroughly familiar with the particular text. In any case very few people now living were alive in 1920.
>>24765331>So it will take at least 6 years for a student to reach LLPSI chapter 34?About one year if above average iq, two if average. Then three years of Harrius Potterius et al.
>>24765337Then all you’re saying is that Chinese characters are often multifaceted in meaning in 文言文, something any well educated Chinese person would tell you.>>24765342Has anyone ever actually just sat down day one with Familia Romana and just read through and thoroughly studied the entire corpus of LLPSI first? Does le nature method actually work on a purist basis?
>>24765349Well, yes, but specifically that sometimes Mandarin can be misleading just like any related language can.
Broader question about CC. CC seems, by its uninflected nature, to potentially have far greater benefits than modern languages for memorizing poetry at length. For example, I know the 300 character and 1000 character classics were used in traditional education in this way, there was a surname classic, and the analects would be eventual memorized in their entirety. I’m not saying to go that far, but CC just seems especially like there’s no “easy” way to get into it and you kind of just have to brute force it into your brain, with the best way of giving context simply being to use actual CC texts as your sample sentences.I used a text called Defrancis Beginning Chinese Reader to get started in Mandarin that introduced vocab gradually though, but Mandarin is a whole other beast.>>24765362Yes but for your claim to make much sense for someone to be seriously concerned it has to be more misleading than English. That’s all we really disagree on I’m just being silly.
>>24765366But English isn't related to CC. CC words have no English cognates to mislead you.
>>24764704Okay, that's a good point, I expect any speaker of modern sinosphere languages would make this kind of mistake as well. Like a Romance speaker assuming a word in Latin has carried over to their language when it's false friend>>24765323it's agreed to be ambiguous and there is debate within Chinese cirles over the meaning of 床 in that line, see picrel. Commentaries can't agree that it is "bed".>>24765349his point is that Mandarin speakers might gloss over some characters including common nouns like 床 that have a single meaning in Mandarin but had multiple meanings in CC and get locked into specific interpretations as a result>>24765366how I learnt was from simple extracts from pre-Qin and Han texts then worked up to full texts and chapters. It worked for me because I already know Mandarin, idk how it would for someone with no foundation in a modern sinosphere language thoreading poetry, Tang poetry in particular, is a different skill from reading CC prose.
>>24765082This, but unironically.
>>24765454>his point is that Mandarin speakers might gloss over some characters including common nouns like 床 that have a single meaning in Mandarin but had multiple meanings in CC and get locked into specific interpretations as a result>mightThat’s my point, I have had less of a problem with that from Ching chongs than from nigels in my experience.>>24765454Yeah so it went from “ackshually 床 means well rail” to “it’s ambiguous whether it means well rail or bed.” That’s very different, and of course due to the inherently abstract nature of CC characters I am under no illusion that it strictly means either, because we’re discussing a medieval usage of an early iron age literary style separated by 2000 years from each other and 800 from the present.
>>24765502I had been under the impression that the meaning was more clear-cut. Still, it certainly doesn't always mean "bed" is my point.
>>24765519did you genuinely think that 床 in 床前明月光 meant well rail
>>24765736Yes, and all my research indicates that scholars at least agree it is among the possible readings.
>>24765753>it is>it is among the possible
Been strugglin' to find Jacobus Arminius' works in latin.Can a nigga get a link?
Two separate pedagogical questions relevant to two different approaches. First is how you got use out of using literal word-for-word interlinears, the pros and cons, and whether you think it is most useful at a beginner-intermediate-advanced stage (since at a stage where one knows the grammar well it's sole purpose is vocab for example).Second is for anyone who has done a reader/LLPSI-based approach to Latin. Specifically, at what point did you feel you could leave the playground or ditch the training wheels of a glossary and start doing stuff like powering through a Loeb, only needed the translation for checking new vocab?
Has anyone here ever read Servius's full-length commentary on the Aeneid?
>>24766584>interlinearsimho intermediate level, as you said, it's part of the lexical acquisition phase even though they can also help with grammarI used one for the Iliad an I think especially as you begin dealing with e.g a work with many new words it makes things easier by not having you constantly check a dictionary
>>24766584I've never used a word-for-word interlinear myself as a study tool, but if you're relying on the interlinear word-by-word to make sense of the Latin, I don't imagine that you could go very fast, and trying to make sense of the English sentences (which, unless the Latin has been re-arranged, has been re-arranged to fit the Latin word order) might not be so easy either. In terms of utility or convenience, I think the interlinear format would be most helpful the more of a beginner you are, and the less you understand the grammar. The more experienced you get, the easier it is to pick out which parts of a normal English translation correspond to which parts in the Latin even though the words aren't in the same order. At that point, pointing out the sense of how the words fit together is more helpful than glossing every single word individually.
>>24767949The original prefaces in the old 18th century essays promoting the method largely promote it as a way to get people reading day 1 so I think you’re largely correct, but I think >>24767596 is also correct in a different context. Specifically I get a lot more value out of parallel translations for texts that are at my level, i.e. i+1, for exactly the reasons you described. Currently many books in the vulgate are like this for me due to the pretty consistent core vocab and repetitive wording/grammar. However, for engaging with poetry like the Aeneid, which is otherwise way beyond my level and requires multiple lookups per line, interlinears are preferable to parallel translations. So I think the usefulness of a given interlinear depends on the difficulty of that specific text for that specific reader.Specifically, I think interlinears have been most helpful when I know enough grammar/syntax to make sense of the sentence once I know the definition, but cease to be helpful when I know enough of the vocab that I am only looking at a new word a couple times a paragraph rather than a couple times per sentence.
>read nothing for two days award
>>24768811RIP 2/3 of your vocabulary pack up your stuff it’s over
>>24768811Minerva quingentos infregit tibi colaphos
>>24765337>>24765454>ching chong bing bong sirry whitu devil can’t read Ratin rike us Chinee >they no can see meaning of “virtuts” because Engrish make their brain unabur look-book Ratin rike true son of Han
>>24766295?
>>24765218I waited too long to start reading Latin poetry. I’ve only read ~1000 lines and its sublimity vindicated the countless hours slogging through grammar more than any history or speeches or letters. Pharr was fucking right.
I learn Chinese by cheating on my Latin and Grec. Why? I do not know
the .slob files from last thread don't appear as dictionaries after they're added to goldendict. I can't find any answers online so I figure if anyone here has experience with .slob and/or goldendict I could really use some help.
well, turns out the most recent version of goldendict can't run .slob or .mdict.
>>24769529works on my machine
>>24770191The official site just hasn’t updated its release version in like a decade.
>>24770744>updates>breaksyou're green aren't you?
>>24770759No it just didn’t occur to me because I was spacing out really badly that I should go get the latest prerelease version on github instead of downloading from the official site. I never update anki for example, I just expected the official release of the “most broadly compatible dictionary program” to be compatible with the biggest dictionary filetype online.
