Delphic charioteer edition>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·>>24732139>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw>Mέγα τὸ ANE·https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg>Work in progress FAQhttps://rentry dot co/n8nrkoAll Classical languages are welcome.
>>24763639Their understanding may still be biased by Mandarin, much like how there are passages in Shakespeare ("wherefore art thou Romeo?") or the King James Bible ("avoid all appearance of evil") that modern English speakers tend to misunderstand.
Bump.I ordered Loeb’s Daphnis and Chloe today. I will start a translation reading next month when it arrives. I was the one who said he would translate the Greek excerpts on the Orestes Laskos film as I got to that part of the book- it is rather short
Link:https://m.ok.ru/video/15071316681The Greek inter titles are from the story though with an updated translation from Votreides. I figured as I got to the but in the book I would take apart the sentences in Loeb and then watch the film on screen.
What text did you find the most annoying to get through? For any reason
>>24763900De res publica by Kikero because of his double chin
>>24763784Roll
“But no matter how much the water reflects on her naked body it doesn’t diminish her purity.” -Longus
>>24763954>De Homine Insulso Qui Existimavit Duos Cunnos In Uxore>Homo e nostris rusticanus, et haud multum prudens, certe in coitu mulierum rudis, sumpta uxore, cum illa aliquando in lecto renes versus virum volvens, nates in ejus gremio posuisset, erecto telo uxorem casu cognovit. Admiratusque postmodum et rogans mulierem, an duos cunnos haberet, cum illa annuisset: 'Ho, ho,' inquit, 'mihi unus satis est, alter vero superfluus.' Tum callida uxor, quae a Sacerdote parochiano diligebatur: 'Possumus,' inquit, 'ex hoc eleemosynam facere; demus eum Ecclesiae et Sacerdoti nostro, cui haec res erit gratissima, et tibi nihil oberit, cum unus sufficiat tibi.' Assentit vir uxori, et in gratiam sacerdotis, et ut se onere superfluo levaret. Igitur, eo vocato ad cenam, causaque exposita, cum sumpto cibo lectum unum tres ingrederentur, ita ut mulier media esset, vir anteriori parte, posteriori alter ex dono uteretur, Sacerdos famelicus concupitique cibi avidus, prior aggreditur aciem sibi commissam: qua in re uxor quoque submurmurans strepitum quemdam edebat. Tunc vir timens ne partes suas aggrederetur: 'Serva,' inquit, 'amice, inter nos conventa, et tua portione utere, meam intactam relinquens.' Huic Sacerdos: 'Det mihi gratiam Deus,' inquit, 'nam tua parvi facio, ut bonis tantum Ecclesiae uti possim.' His verbis acquiescens stultus ille, quod Ecclesiae concesserat, libere uti iussit.I'm confused by the line the priest says at the end.>'nam tua parvi facio, ut bonis tantum Ecclesiae uti possim."I make yours small, that I may just use the goods of the Church."What means?
>>24764103Nevermind, I thought there was some innuendo I was missing, but it makes sense that he just means "your portion means little to me as long as I can use the portion given to the Church."Anyways this was a good find. I'll be reading more of the Facetiae.
>>24764140Neat
>>24763784ROLL
>>24763784>>24764299Reroll for Thomas More
>>24764299>>24764301>>24763784What do I think about this /clg/?
>>24763667English speakers misunderstand Shakespeare because they treat it as modern English and don't bother to learn the differences in meaning and syntax between it and modern Englishthe distance between CC and Mandarin is much greater, as you know, and everyone has to study it specifically to understand it - Mandarin speakers don't simply treat it as if it were Mandarin like English speakers do with ShakespeareI understand that they may be biased by Mandarin, such as my understanding of CC is biased by English, but I don't see how it would lead to misunderstandings. Mandarin speakers don't assume that CC words mean the same as they do in Mandarin. Could you give an example?
>>24764678They may be aware that many words mean different things, but there are also many words that mean the same, and it's possible to confuse the two categories. For example, in Tang poetry, 床 often means a well-railing, but modern readers are known to misinterpret it as "bed".
>>24764301hey it's iBBW!
Reminder: the only way to truly learn Latin is to memorize every grammar rule (taught in English with contextless, isolated sentences as examples) and immediately jump into Virgil.
Best way to get to Virgil is reading 3rd grade Latin prose for 5 years
>>24763900Despite the shitpost I agree about Cicero's De Re Publica. The sole surviving manuscript is a heavily corrupted palimpsest missing multiple sections and pages. It is hard to go more than a couple paragraphs without a significant lacuna of most likely several paragraphs. I still hold some small hope that someday someone will uncover a lost manuscript of the text because the parts that exist aren't bad.
>>24765078Start with Pharr, you’ll go far.
>>24764704Nigga are you trying to say that one poem says “the moonlight shines at the foot of my *well railing” and not “moonlight shines at the foot of my bed?” This chigga was getting nostalgic staring at a well in the middle of a frosty night?”床前明月光… and so forth IIRC.Something tells me sirry bru eyed 白鬼 intellectuals are way more likely to “ummm ackshually” their way into incorrect readings than for people who used 文言文 as their sole written style until 1920.
>>24764931I banged dad’s wife.>>24765082So it will take at least 6 years for a student to reach LLPSI chapter 34?>>24765078If you learn this way it’s your duty to read as little Latin as possible and spend your days on 4chan/reddit flexing your degree and questioning peoples’ usage of case endings or snidely calling their Latin shit without ever producing any of your own. Don’t forget to worship the beautiful sentences of Kikero when you can’t even read Caesar or the gospels unassisted.
>>24765323Okay, there's some disagreement on that particular poem, but it at least may mean "well-railing", and there are other cases where it definitely doesn't mean "bed", like 遶床弄青梅 (most glosses I've seen explain it as a well-railing but a couple have explained it as a bench).>Something tells me sirry bru eyed 白鬼 intellectuals are way more likely to “ummm ackshually” their way into incorrect readings than for people who used 文言文 as their sole written style until 1920.First of all, many of these readings are based on traditional commentaries and understandings, it's just that a modern Mandarin speaker may not know them unless they're thoroughly familiar with the particular text. In any case very few people now living were alive in 1920.
>>24765331>So it will take at least 6 years for a student to reach LLPSI chapter 34?About one year if above average iq, two if average. Then three years of Harrius Potterius et al.
>>24765337Then all you’re saying is that Chinese characters are often multifaceted in meaning in 文言文, something any well educated Chinese person would tell you.>>24765342Has anyone ever actually just sat down day one with Familia Romana and just read through and thoroughly studied the entire corpus of LLPSI first? Does le nature method actually work on a purist basis?
>>24765349Well, yes, but specifically that sometimes Mandarin can be misleading just like any related language can.
Broader question about CC. CC seems, by its uninflected nature, to potentially have far greater benefits than modern languages for memorizing poetry at length. For example, I know the 300 character and 1000 character classics were used in traditional education in this way, there was a surname classic, and the analects would be eventual memorized in their entirety. I’m not saying to go that far, but CC just seems especially like there’s no “easy” way to get into it and you kind of just have to brute force it into your brain, with the best way of giving context simply being to use actual CC texts as your sample sentences.I used a text called Defrancis Beginning Chinese Reader to get started in Mandarin that introduced vocab gradually though, but Mandarin is a whole other beast.>>24765362Yes but for your claim to make much sense for someone to be seriously concerned it has to be more misleading than English. That’s all we really disagree on I’m just being silly.
>>24765366But English isn't related to CC. CC words have no English cognates to mislead you.
>>24764704Okay, that's a good point, I expect any speaker of modern sinosphere languages would make this kind of mistake as well. Like a Romance speaker assuming a word in Latin has carried over to their language when it's false friend>>24765323it's agreed to be ambiguous and there is debate within Chinese cirles over the meaning of 床 in that line, see picrel. Commentaries can't agree that it is "bed".>>24765349his point is that Mandarin speakers might gloss over some characters including common nouns like 床 that have a single meaning in Mandarin but had multiple meanings in CC and get locked into specific interpretations as a result>>24765366how I learnt was from simple extracts from pre-Qin and Han texts then worked up to full texts and chapters. It worked for me because I already know Mandarin, idk how it would for someone with no foundation in a modern sinosphere language thoreading poetry, Tang poetry in particular, is a different skill from reading CC prose.
>>24765082This, but unironically.
>>24765454>his point is that Mandarin speakers might gloss over some characters including common nouns like 床 that have a single meaning in Mandarin but had multiple meanings in CC and get locked into specific interpretations as a result>mightThat’s my point, I have had less of a problem with that from Ching chongs than from nigels in my experience.>>24765454Yeah so it went from “ackshually 床 means well rail” to “it’s ambiguous whether it means well rail or bed.” That’s very different, and of course due to the inherently abstract nature of CC characters I am under no illusion that it strictly means either, because we’re discussing a medieval usage of an early iron age literary style separated by 2000 years from each other and 800 from the present.
>>24765502I had been under the impression that the meaning was more clear-cut. Still, it certainly doesn't always mean "bed" is my point.
>>24765519did you genuinely think that 床 in 床前明月光 meant well rail
>>24765736Yes, and all my research indicates that scholars at least agree it is among the possible readings.
>>24765753>it is>it is among the possible
Been strugglin' to find Jacobus Arminius' works in latin.Can a nigga get a link?
Two separate pedagogical questions relevant to two different approaches. First is how you got use out of using literal word-for-word interlinears, the pros and cons, and whether you think it is most useful at a beginner-intermediate-advanced stage (since at a stage where one knows the grammar well it's sole purpose is vocab for example).Second is for anyone who has done a reader/LLPSI-based approach to Latin. Specifically, at what point did you feel you could leave the playground or ditch the training wheels of a glossary and start doing stuff like powering through a Loeb, only needed the translation for checking new vocab?
Has anyone here ever read Servius's full-length commentary on the Aeneid?
>>24766584>interlinearsimho intermediate level, as you said, it's part of the lexical acquisition phase even though they can also help with grammarI used one for the Iliad an I think especially as you begin dealing with e.g a work with many new words it makes things easier by not having you constantly check a dictionary
>>24766584I've never used a word-for-word interlinear myself as a study tool, but if you're relying on the interlinear word-by-word to make sense of the Latin, I don't imagine that you could go very fast, and trying to make sense of the English sentences (which, unless the Latin has been re-arranged, has been re-arranged to fit the Latin word order) might not be so easy either. In terms of utility or convenience, I think the interlinear format would be most helpful the more of a beginner you are, and the less you understand the grammar. The more experienced you get, the easier it is to pick out which parts of a normal English translation correspond to which parts in the Latin even though the words aren't in the same order. At that point, pointing out the sense of how the words fit together is more helpful than glossing every single word individually.
>>24767949The original prefaces in the old 18th century essays promoting the method largely promote it as a way to get people reading day 1 so I think you’re largely correct, but I think >>24767596 is also correct in a different context. Specifically I get a lot more value out of parallel translations for texts that are at my level, i.e. i+1, for exactly the reasons you described. Currently many books in the vulgate are like this for me due to the pretty consistent core vocab and repetitive wording/grammar. However, for engaging with poetry like the Aeneid, which is otherwise way beyond my level and requires multiple lookups per line, interlinears are preferable to parallel translations. So I think the usefulness of a given interlinear depends on the difficulty of that specific text for that specific reader.Specifically, I think interlinears have been most helpful when I know enough grammar/syntax to make sense of the sentence once I know the definition, but cease to be helpful when I know enough of the vocab that I am only looking at a new word a couple times a paragraph rather than a couple times per sentence.
>read nothing for two days award
>>24768811RIP 2/3 of your vocabulary pack up your stuff it’s over
>>24768811Minerva quingentos infregit tibi colaphos
>>24765337>>24765454>ching chong bing bong sirry whitu devil can’t read Ratin rike us Chinee >they no can see meaning of “virtuts” because Engrish make their brain unabur look-book Ratin rike true son of Han
>>24766295?
>>24765218I waited too long to start reading Latin poetry. I’ve only read ~1000 lines and its sublimity vindicated the countless hours slogging through grammar more than any history or speeches or letters. Pharr was fucking right.
I learn Chinese by cheating on my Latin and Grec. Why? I do not know
the .slob files from last thread don't appear as dictionaries after they're added to goldendict. I can't find any answers online so I figure if anyone here has experience with .slob and/or goldendict I could really use some help.
well, turns out the most recent version of goldendict can't run .slob or .mdict.
>>24769529works on my machine
>>24770191The official site just hasn’t updated its release version in like a decade.
>>24770744>updates>breaksyou're green aren't you?
>>24770759No it just didn’t occur to me because I was spacing out really badly that I should go get the latest prerelease version on github instead of downloading from the official site. I never update anki for example, I just expected the official release of the “most broadly compatible dictionary program” to be compatible with the biggest dictionary filetype online.
Translation challengeEasyThe fox runs away.Wash that old bucket.Look! Someone is stealing the money!MediumIf we stay, we'll need more water.Although the river isn't far, we shouldn't split up.He repeatedly and angrily asked him where he had hidden the key.HardFollowing the devastating ambush in which the entire left flank of the army was butchered or sent into a panicked flight, the general, having assembled his subordinates, set up a meeting to discuss the best strategy to reach the fortified camp without too many losses.
>>24770764You know what they say, when you expect it makes an ass out of u and me
Is it worth signing up for an online beginner Latin course for 400€ (60 hours, once per week)? The course is organized by our universities' faculty of arts and philosophy.30, finished masters in elec. engineering 5 years ago, and haven't studied anything in particular after that. As a long term goal, I want to study Newton's principia in latin.It's a long journey, but I would like to know if courses like these are worthwhile or should I fully embrace the self-education path.
>>24772135How about you download LLPSI and try reading that for a while? It's in the OP mega1 hour a day After a few weeks you can better evaluate your decision but personally I think courses are a waste of moneyThe companion will likely be necessary to use
>>24772152I have tried LLPSI several times in the past, but never endured beyond the first chapters. Personally, I got through uni by self study, so naturally I thought that an online course would be a waste of time and money. Lately however I have a nagging felling that learning a language is not something I can attain without a social context.
>>24772190It sounds like you have a better idea why you would want to sign up for a course than we would. Like the other poster said, there are plenty of materials to learn Latin on your own, so there's no inherent need to sign up for a course. Any reasons to do so would be purely subjective. So only you can decide whether it's worth For price comparison, here are a couple of online classes I've seen that are not affiliated with a university.$640 (16 x 1.5 hours).https://www.habesnelac.com/courses/p/fa25-vk-lat-from-scratch-eu$895 (14 x 1.5 hours).https://ancientlanguage.com/beginner-latin/If you want to succeed with self-study, you're going to have to do some reflection about why you "never endured beyond the first chapters," and what you could do to fix that.
>>24772190If your goal is to study just one Latin work you could always go strict grammar translation method with Wheelock’s or another grammar textbook. But regardless, a paid course isn’t going to solve the discipline problem, just stave it off for a few months
>>24772190My social context is just /clg/ and the classics themselves but if you want a more dedicated social context there’s a pretty big LLPSI discord out there you can look up that has channels for each chapter and group study and stuff.
>>24772135My hot take, courses are a waste of time, just study on your own. Sometimes you will get stuck and need advice but that's what 4chan/plebbit are for. There will be times you get bored, maybe take a day off, just spend at least 15-20 minutes on it even in the dry periods. It'll slow you up but as your interest grows and you read more you will not be behind, what you want to avoid is doing no Latin at all for weeks.
Thank you for the insightful replies. I shall do the very opposite and sign up. I may keep you updated on how it's going
>>24772135paying for it is actually probably a good way to stay motivated unless 400€ mean nothing at all to you
bumperoni
>>24771351EasyVulpis aufugit.Elue situlam.Aspice! Aliquis pecuniam intercipit!MediumSi manserimus, plus aquae nobis necesse erit.Cum flumen non multum absit, tamen nobis non discedendum est.Eum saepissime iratissimeque interrogavit ubi clavem adidisset.HardPost insidias perniciosissimas ex quibus factum est ut totum latus sinistrum exercitus caederetur aut fugaretur, dux, cum suos contraxisset, concilium convocavit ut de optimo consilio agerent quo ad castra munita sine multis detrimentis pervenirent.For the hard, embedding a relative clause in the prepositional phrase at the start of the sentence feels clunky. Anyone know how else to write that? Temporal cum + subj?
>>24775446aside indeed from cum + subj. you could use some past participle kinda like how Livy likes to do it, e.g>Haec post exactos reges domi militiaeque gesta primo annoso idk something like>post obtruncatum aut fugatum laevum cornum perniciosissima clade insidiis accepta....
>>24771351It’s odd that I feel like I could put something solid together for the hard challenge but don’t know “fox” or “bucket”
>>24763784Rolling
βραδέως ἔχει τὸ /κλγ/ νεωστὶ διὰ τὸ συνεχῶς βιβλίους ἀναγιγνώσκειν καὶ τὰς γλώσσας μελετᾶν, εὖγε!
>>24763657Who is learning Pali here?
>>24778119>βιβλίουςβίβλους or βιβλία, anon, still appreciate the εὖ γε, I've actually read the gospel of John in the original.
How can I learn the middle EnglishHow can I find physical untranslated middle English books for cheap
>>24778206Chaucer is widely available. It's not really considered a separate language in a lot of publications so I personally have only found unadapted versions in bookstores, albiet with glosses/vocab lists/guides for spelling differences and archaic words. I looked at one just yesterday though and some of the "archaic" words are stuff that only became "archaic" in the past 60 years or so because our language has become dumbed down lol.
>>24778320what about the actually old middle english stuff thats very different
>>24778206Everyman's Library has an edition of the Gawain poet
>>24778160nice, the other day I had no internet and as usual that boosted my daily reading and I read a bunch of chapters of Matthew to pass the time, I think I'm going to finish it
>>24778325This post makes me incredibly irrationally angry
>>24778160I intend John as my first complete native text in Greek since it worked well and was a manageable length as my first Latin book.
>>24778325>>24778800To actually answer your question though, first, all Middle English is old. Chaucer and Wycliffe are what everyone thinks of when you say Middle English. Gawain poet is contemporary to Chaucer. Most of the middle english corpus is of this 14th-15th century period, and very little before that survives. Picrel is from one of the oldest texts, made in the mid 12th century, and is basically the oldest surviving Middle English that I am aware of. If you can't read Chaucer comfortably though it would be pretty retarded to go read this instead unless you just have some autistic fixation on "studying" Middle English while ignoring the entire core corpus.
>tfw this never became the printing standard for Greekcrying
>>24778978Grecs de Roi is a terrible abomination. I have no idea why people thought printing dozens of ligatures was a good idea.
>>24771351ἀποτρέχει ἡλώπηξλοῦσον τἀγγεῖονἰδού! τἀργύριον ἁρπάζει τις!ἐὰν μένωμεν, πλείονος ὕδατος δεησόμεθακεἰ μὴ πολλῷ ἀπέχοντος τοῦ ποταμοῦ μὴ ἀπίωμεν ἄλλος ἄλλοθιθαμὰ κἀγρίως ἐπανηρώταν ἀυτὸν ποῦ 'ποκεκρύφοι τὴν κλεῖνI'll maybe try the hard, idk
Do you study classical languages out of fear of having to speak others? This way preventing your ego from hurt?
>24779862Always remind this seething projector that he was filtered by the early chapters of LLPSI.
Do any of you have learned Latin after learning Greek? I suppose learning Latin would be easier knowing Greek, but would there be any unique difficulties? It seems to me a peculiar situation, but being Greek naturally led me to learn to read the Greeks. but I have neglected to learn Latin.
>>24775892Thanks fren
>>24778120Do (you)?>>24778320>>24778835Do you (or anyone else, for that matter) happen to know of a good, long recording of Middle English? I'm a (high level) ESL, so I might be able to read Chaucer with glosses and whatever, but I can't just rely on English reflexes as well as native speakers can.
>einai ta paknidia Kai to logia Kai ta kadia tous athoa Kai paidiastikaModern translation versus the rather straightforward version of Longus>athurmata de autois en poimenika Kai paidika.Which one do you prefer? >their games are so idyllic and childlikeVs>all the laughter and their games are so innocent and childlike
>>24779862That's a less charitable way of putting it, but if I'm being honest at least part of the appeal for me of dead languages and conlangs is that I can in principle master it as well as any living person. In the case of a modern, living language, a native speaker's grammaticality judgements will always be considered more authoritative than mine by definition no matter how much I study and practice.
What's some post-classical latin that's beautiful to read? Everything medieval I've read is just incredibly dry.
>>24781119without knowing the context I like the first more, idyllic sells ποιμενικά much better and overall the translation is simpler
>>24781257Cool. I wrote that right now. I have been practicing my Greek by trying to rewrite the same few sentences from a book in different ways and comparing them with other translations. >Games for them were idyllic and innocent.>Sports for them are idyllic and childlike
>>24781251Carmina Burana and the Archpoet
Latin is a gift from the Gods and I'm tired of pretending otherwise. Where did all of these Greeklings come from though, unrelatedly?
I have just uploaded on Libgen two brand-new graded Latin readers, published earlier this year by two French Latin teachers, inspired by the works of Satura Lanx.The first one, Mira Animalia (ISBN : 9782757442999), is an anthology of fables from both classical and medieval Latin authors, intended for intermediate readers.The second one, Ciris (ISBN : 9782757442920), is an epic in hexameters from the Appendix Vergiliana, intended for advanced readers.You can find an audio recording of Ciris (Classical pronunciation with a French accent) on YouTube :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45gpOOvUQJY&list=PLAjZY-GOzrHPCr5pRqNlPwGi5A0AHT8fMEnjoy!
>>24781278>TAM PRO PAPA>QUAM PRO REGE>BIBUNT OMNES SINE LEGE
Having spent time with the vulgate extensively, probably reading around 50,000 words or so over a month, I am finding certain chapters basically effortless coming back to and resuming Familia Romana. I was deadlifting today and I would just read a chunk of LLPSI during my rests. I think that stuff like being able to recite grammar tables are important eventual benchmarks but that for reading the most important factor is literally just doing it as much as possible to build stamina. Feels like my Latin got a huge boost, and I expect to advance through FR much faster than before.I think the philosophy I have finally come across after a year of dabbling in a few language/approaches is to basically have a bunch of objective short and long-term benchmarks, that I can chip away at in different ways, to keep it fun and stave off boredom. Essentially, instead of saying>first, learn the grammar tables>second, do a reader>third, grind out Caesar>etc.I'm finding it far more stable to just chip away at all of my eventual goals at whatever pace I am capable, and that my own limitations in capability self-regulate the amount of time I put into it. I won't spend too much time chipping away at Caesar if he's beyond my level, but if I want to, I can.I "should" memorize a bunch of tables, then do LLPSI thoroughly, then read the vulgate (or some other lengthy set of approachable works). Instead I just set all of these as benchmarks of ability and do whichever I want whenever I want. One day I might write out a table 20 times, another I might read 5 chapters of the vulgate, another I might reread a few chapters of LLPSI and try one new chapter, etc.But my longterm goals are still to have written out the regular wheelock tables a large amount of times, to have thoroughly read and parsed LLPSI FR, to have reread every chapter at least a few times, and to reach a million words of comprehensible reading input.
>>24782193>keep it fun and stave off boredomthis is indeed at least 50%+ of the battle, to also know when you are biting more than you can chew and back off to something more comfortable rather than lose momentum/interest
Yeah, it really do be like that:https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1759932058914248.mp4
>>24781371Thanks for sharing. Do you have an article of some kind you could post to redpill us on these new readers? Or maybe the best explanation is found in the preface to these books?
>>24782856Maybe the best 'redpill' is to read the booksYour brain is rotten. Go offline
>>24782781The premise of the joke has potential, but it was not executed well at all. The creator is a poor actor, and has no talent for comedic timing. I didn’t find it funny, nor did I “laugh out loud”. I did chuckle to myself briefly when, upon finishing the video, I recalled a similar experience that would fit the premise of the joke, in which Julius all but tells his wife that he thinks their young daughter is ugly. For which inspiration, I give this attempt at short form comedy a 4/10.
>>24782869This post is giving off some real bluepilled energy frfr.
>>24783029bodied that freak
>>24782869NIGGER
>>24781295ἡμεῖς οἱ τοὺς Ἕλληνας σεβόμενοι τοῦ /κλγ/ οἱ βασιλεῖς
>>24783633https://voca.ro/15nNvQLFlSy9
does anyone here have experience learning a classical language (greek or latin) by just reading basic texts and comparing with translations? I have knowledge of one romance language and am considering learning either Latin or Greek. Just don't know if this could be an efficacious way to learn. By just reading texts
>>24784174dekaglossai recommends it
>>24784174Works fine. Ultimately everyone has to transition to actually reading at some point, the debate is just how early that is practical. Do what is fun for you. Caesar or the Vulgate might be good for this since the Vulgate uses very repetitive grammar/wording and core vocab and Caesar also uses a pretty small core vocab.I was actually considering dabbling in italian by just doing a pass of a page of Dante's Inferno in italian, reading it in english, then rereading in italian.
>>24782628Yesterday, I read 35 pages of LLPSI. Today, I read zero Latin, but I did 5 write-throughs of the active indicative table. When I am less depressed I will read more.
>>24784223cool, i'll look at some of his videos and maybe try inputting some of the basic latin i've seen on this general.>>24784378do you know italian or are you just going to wing it with your Latin knowledge?I have zero latin knowledge other than 1 year in high school, which i don't remember now. So maybe I start with one of those basic textbooks and work my way up? IDK
>>24784537Winging it with Italian. Plus I’ll probably read Italian by the nature method since it worked so well for Latin.>So maybe I start with one of those basic textbooks and work my way up? IDKIf you want to read for comprehension and sight read quickly LLPSI pars i familia romana is your best bet.But yes overall Latin is lexically similar enough to English that direct vocab work is overrated IMO
Idk how to choose a language bros. I think I am too old!! Couldn't find any books on Latin or old English or Greek in any book store or library.
>>24784869yeah I guess you are out of options then sucks to be you better luck next life
>>24784174I have already done that with Parmenides and Sappho. Longus is the first complete book I am attempting.
>>24784869Study French until you can fluently read 90% of French literature then pick either Latin or Ancient Greek
>>24784389Studying ancient languages cures my depressive spells.
>>24785341what is the difference between>studying frenchand>reading french
>>24785668An ancient languages general is actually a bad place for general language pedagogy advice because l they’ll take languages like French, and imply English speakers should grind flashcards and conjugation tables and only eventually try reading.Just read. Try le francais par le methods nature.
>>24785111Why would you say that>>24785341Why french what
I was trying to find the athenaze stories online in plaintext and I guess someone(s) have already compiled the stories into a high-quality PDF that can easily be copy-pasted, preserving the original characters. I guess I need to make sure that the transcription was done correctly. But if it was done correctly, this save a lot of time.https://www.thehebrewcafe.com/greek/athenaze/readings/runningreadings.pdfso now i can easily copy + paste the texts and put them into my reader app of choice, use a pop-up dictionary more easily, etc. etc.>percentage of time actually learning the language: 0>percentage of time spent being a sperg and fiddling around: 100
>>24786547Unbelievably helpful to have stuff like this.
Still a long way to go...
>>24787801What are you reading?
>>24787840Currently, I am finishing LLPSI Familia Romana and reading at the same time Via Latina de lingua et vita romanorum. When I'll be finished with both, I'll be 1% on my way to achieving reading fluency in Latin, at least that's the current plan.We shall see whether this will end up being a futile exercise in autistic endeavours or actually effective. It's not like I have better things to do in my life at the moment.
>>24787937Are you trolling right now? You know a lot of those books are easier than LLPSI right? Besides the amount of reading, Fr. Most’s text would work best before Familia Romana as it introduces grammar more slowly and explains it. I used LBTNM and found it substantially easier than Familia Romana. I think it’s excellent.When do you actually intend on trying a native text?
>>24787937I’ll put it this way so as not to discourage you. Your method will absolutely 100% work. But you may find that you can just go to native texts far earlier than you think.
>>24787801I misread this at first and thought it said 650k words not 6.5 million. Dude what the fuck is this plan?
>>24763784roll
>>24787979>>24787989>>24787996I hate myself. So I'll inflict myself with every entry level Latin reader of the last 200 years, long soul crushing months of "Cornelius baculum in mensa ponit" style of prose. Or would you prefer me to self-destruct by leading a life of crime, addictions and wanton debauchery?I have chosen my poison and I plan to consume it, ad libitum.On a more serious note, it's more an experiment on how far comprehensible input and extensive reading can get you in Latin compared to modern languages, where this method has shown its efficiency.
>>24784174I bought a bilingual copy of Heraclitus recently in hopes that it would make good study material, but I'm realizing the translation is awfully non-literal in places and my Greek is not good enough to bridge the gap.
>>24784869Just download a PDF of Familia Romana.
>>24788104Okay, I understand, I just think you could pretty much move into extensive reading much much sooner with no problems by just reading the vulgate or something if you're going into the Patristics as your first native works.Also, Fr. Most's if you include year 2 and 3 of LBTNM really get you a ton of reading practice. The year 3 text is literally just augustine, cicero, and seneca.Is it some meme where you are trying to do this without rereading any chapters or something? With rereading I really solidified by base in LBTNM and LLPSI much quicker and got into the vulgate at least sooner.
Any alternatives to lute?
>>24788104Anything to avoid reading classical LatinGood luck
>>24788794Yes>window 1: text>window 2: annotations>window 3: dictionary/grammar
>>24788794Pop up dictionary. I use yomitan, I actually use it on Lute usually because it speeds up the reading a ton.>>24789010This works too. All Lute is is basically this integrated into one window and a word highlighter/dictionary builder.
>>24789010Doing the exact same thing but way slower and clunkier
>>24789135It’s not much slower or clunkier at all. Maybe relative to how they studied 500 years ago, but computers cut out 99% of the bullshit there with ctrl+f and bookmarks. Learning is not an instantaneous process. You’re inevitably going to have to engage with dense resources that no magic program can streamline. Or were you hoping for something that zaps information into your brain with no effort on your part?
>>24765331> If you learn this way it’s your duty to read as little Latin as possible and spend your days on 4chan/reddit flexing your degree and questioning peoples’ usage of case endings or snidely calling their Latin shit without ever producing any of your own. Nonnulli huius generis etiam hic sunt
>>24765082Correct
>>24766429http://www.prdl.org/author_view.php?a_id=10
>>24766584Day 60000 of this thread being nothing but llpsi debates
>>24788794Stop trying to make lute happen
>>2478939410/5-10/6 had zero posts related to LLPSI. You’ve been deboonked
Errabam in bibliotheca quarens mensam ubi Vulgatam legerem, cum puellam sedentem sine calceis occurerim, pedes ejus ad mundum ostendentem. simul atque membrum virile sensi crescere, accurri ad latrinam ubi nunc sedeo. ignosce mihi, Jesu, sed pedes nudi potentiores te sunt et hanc arborem verberare me invitum cogunt..
>>24789394If you knew Latin you would post about something else
>>24789622aut Veneris fuere pedes aut tibi frequentius idem faciundum ne adeo "erecundus" sies
>>24789135What about the idea that your brain doesn't hold onto information as well if it knows it's easily available to call up again at a click?
Reading Familia Romana continues to be a breeze after taking a break and spamming a bunch of LUTE. I think the chapters will continue to be relatively easy grammatically but are just introducing more vocab, simply because I've seen a lot of these verb endings before and am just now actually systematizing my knowledge of them.I got through 7500 words of reading today and yesterday each, 2 new chapters yesterday, 1 new today, with Pensum feeling near effortless. Feels gud to be gradually getting more smooth/automatic in my reading. 17 especially was easy because some anon told me way back to sing the passive present indicative endings to the tune of "we wish you a merry christmas" so I never forgot it lol. I think ultimately successive rereading is the way to progressively master the text, so I'm going to try to stick to a 3 chapters per session rule, with 2 rereads and one new chapter if I do a new chapter, or just 3 rereads. Rereading has been so effective for me that I think the meme pyramid reading strat would actually work really well for someone who has already done a grammar translation course like wheelock and just wants to assimilate a shitload of vocab/syntax as deeply as possible quickly. But that's just a guess.
>>24790947Not merely an idea, it’s a proven effect called digital amnesia.
>>24782781Lol funny
>>24782781I’ve seen this same joke a dozen times but better. LikeTextbooks for other languages:House, dog, coffee, I, me, pleaseLatin textbooks:Barbarus, miles, castrum, gladium, necare, imperator
>>24789135An Indian made this post
bump
>>24787937>>24788104I also have been following le Reddit spreadsheet. The readers make it easy to get lots of input without having to constantly refer to a dictionary, and I feel like it's really helped up to firm up my vocabulary. Even if you recognize a word and could answer what it means correctly on a test, you need many exposures to a word (especially verbs because of all the different possible forms), ideally in multiple contexts, to really know it solidly. Some of the texts are more gratifying than others, but if a work is really "soul crushing," I would just skip it. I skipped some of the most tedious beginner readers and some of the paid resources.One thing that I would recommend doing is edit the spreadsheet to support tracking re-reading. I set it up so I can mark how many times I've re-read through a book, and to track word counts both including and excluding re-reads. I also used the SUBTOTAL function for the word counts so that it doesn't include hidden rows in the "Total Words in Plan" or "Words Still to Read" cells. You don't need to re-read everything, but you'll see that certain readers are higher quality than the others, which are worth revisiting. For LLPSI you'll want to review multiple times to make sure you know the vocabulary firmly.
>>24793112Oh, the speadsheet guy is a redditor? I guess it was to be expected, I recently came across his YouTube channel after I started LLPSI for the second time and read about comprehensible input and "N+1" theory and decided to give his method a go.Thanks for the re-reading tracking idea, I will implement it. I had already modified the spreadsheet to remove some of the texts from stage 2 like all the ones from the legentibus app, I don't really want to pay for those, moreover I added some more recent graded readers (like >>2478137) and LLPSI inspired textbooks like Via Latina.You are indeed right that some higher quality texts like Familia Romana and all of its ancillaries ought to be reread several times. I'm doing just that for Familia Romana, the only difference is that I count listening to audio recordings of the chapters as rereading. In my opinion, pairing listening and reading has a compounding effect on language acquisition. The main challenge with this in Latin is finding actual quality recordings with proper pronunciation.Are you aware of any spreadsheet or plan of this kind made for ancient Greek? Once I am done with Roma Aeterna, I will surely start learning in parallel ancient Greek. I reckon at that point, I'll have a solid enough grasp of Latin for me to start learning another language without any risk of deleterious interference.
>>24789394>day 60000 of llpsi give it up for day 60000!
>>24793397As far as I know, there are two spreadsheet for ancient greek, one inspired by the latin one and the other compiled by our great friend Lucius calvus, which follows his Ranieri-Roberts method.https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KhrOKKAL-fERiN8FPY4hkAt5bswv-NQo1_Kka3Q4o0g/edit?usp=sharinghttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16s3pOejAXaUvQ-WCYmFrXo2cnKsl2j0efCrothCp3Y4/edit?usp=sharing
>>24788160I can already tell just by your post that you bought Brooks Haxton’s for penguin classics. Brooks Haxton is a self described poet and his translation is a “poetic translation.” If you want literal translation always go with Loebs.
>>24771351trying the hardμετὰ τὴν ἐνέδρην ᾖ ὅλον τὸ εὐώνυμον κέρας διέφθαρτ' ἢ φύγαδ' ἀτάκτως ἐτέτραπτ' ὁ στρατηγὸς τοὺς ὑπάρχους συνηθροικὼς ἀγορὴνδ' ἐκάλεσεν ἄριστον βούλευμα διακρινοῦντας ὅκως ἐς τὸ φρούριον ὠς ἀπραγμότατ' ἀφίκοιντο
>>24794561was going for a Ionic flavor but fucked up*διακρινέοντας*ἀπίκοιντο
Can I have a job with my Latin skills
why the FUCK are Greek words so hard to retain?I drill Anki for a week, slack off a couple days, then most of the words are forgotten...Compare to dabbling in Russian for a couple days, and now I can never forget the word for Englishwoman
>>24795349don't think they are>drill Ankithat may be the bigger problem if you are just grinding words without context
>>24795042Sure. School teacher, online Latin tutor, monk in a traditionalist Catholic religious order. Take your pick.
>>24795349Slacking off one day is a tragedy, but sometimes necessary. Two or more is abominable, you should be ashamed. Even bedridden with Long COVID-19 you should be mentally drilling conjugations, recalling lines you’ve committed to memory, and so on.
>>24796502 this is so insane that I can't tell if I'm being trolled or not
>>24795349For me was the opposite. Latin words impossible to retain (despite speaking English and 2 romance languages) but Greek words crystal clear.
>>24796605so why bring it here?
>>24796605>taleb in opCouldn’t more obviously be bait
βαμπ
>>24794294Unfortunately Loebs were not what they had at the library book sale. At least I only paid a dollar for it.
>>24763784let's give this a go
>>24798813“Vab”What did he mean by this>>24763784
>>24763784Rerolling
>>24800032>AD EXCELSISSIMUM FLORENTISSIMUMQUE CAROLUM,MAGNAE BRITANNIAE PRINCIPEM>Ludicra qui tibi nunc dicat, olim (amplissime princeps),>grandior ut fueris, grandia forte canet,>quaeque genus celebrare tuum et tua lucida possunt>facta, domi crescunt, sive patrata foris.>at tenues ne tu nimis (optime) despice Musas: >pondere magna valent, parva lepore iuvant.>regibus athletae spatiis grati esse solebant>apricis, nani ridiculique domi.>magnus Alexander magno plaudebat Homero,>suspiciens inter praelia ficta deos; >Caesar, maior eo, Romana epigrammata legit,>sceptigera quaedam fecit et ipse manu.>talia sed recitent alii tibi (maxime princeps);>tu facias semper maxima, parva lege.>enecat activam quia contemplatio vitam >longa, brevis, necnon ingeniosa, fovet.quite niceTo the most excellent and splendid prince Carl of Great Britain:Whoever now tells you frivolous things, one day, most gracious prince, once you'll have become greater/older, will perhaps sing great deeds, and what splendid deeds can celebrate your kin grow at home, even if they were accomplished outside.But don't you, most gracious, look down excessively on simple poems/compositions: great things are good by their importance, small by their pleasantness. Athletes were beloved to kings in the open, at home midgets and buffoons.The great Alexander applauded the great Homer looking up to the gods among (fictious?) battles; Caesar, greater than him, read Roman epigrams, an even made some kingly(?) ones by his own hand.But let others, o great prince, recite these to you; may you accomplish great things, and read small. For a deep/long contemplation exhaust active life, a brief yet clever one cherishes it.
>>24800254Nice
Why does anglo saxon have a melancholic reputation? It's something I've heard repeatedly. I don't know any of the language to confirm
>>24800352It occurs to me that we could be projecting our own impressions of modern germanic words as opposed to latinate words in English.Ghost vs. Spirit for example
>>24800352my unsupported guess is that happier writings that praised god or celebrated holidays etc. were in latin while writings that were more mournful written by the less educated and had more to do with the hardness of life were in anglo saxon.
How should one translate aitios?https://biblehub.com/greek/159.htm
>>24801301you mean besides the page you posted? 'causative' is probably a good way to put it generally, it's an adjective first and foremost indicative of responsability, thus substantivized into (the) aitios typically indicates the one guilty, or as neuter aition the (thing) responsible aka the cause, though the abstract αἰτία is perhaps more commonI guess in the context of the bible it may be of interest that Pilate doesn't use aitios on the man directly, but says οὐδὲν αἴτιον ἐν τῷ ἀνθρώπῳ, so nothing faulty/guilty «in» the man
>>24801442I thought the conventional renderings of it in Hebrews as author or source didn't capture the sense of responsibility / culpability that seems to be implied, but culprit which feels like it would be the best fit semantically sounds awkward in English (as "the culprit of eternal salvation")
>>24802194Why would you choose "culprit?" That implies that eternal salvation is something bad. The Latin Vulgate uses the word "causa" in this verse, which I suppose has legal connotations.
SALTO SALTO SALTO CAPITA SALTO VESTRA SALTO SALTO SALTO REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETARDS
>>24771351>狐逃>洗旧斗!>或夺金,观之!>若留于之,需多水也。>河固不远,却不如分。>愤询之匙隐于何处。
>>24800033>“Vab”
I like the fact that this general moves slowly makes me hopeful that people here are actually learning instead of shitposting
bumpus
>>24763784let's go!
>>24804028We modern pronunciation in this mothafucka take yo reconstructed ass back to rεddit
>>24805450>we
>>24805698> he dunno Classical Ebonics
bump niggers
τοῦ οἴκοι ὄργανον μαγειρικὸν καταστῆσαι εἴνεκα οὐδὲν ἀνέγνωκα σήμερον, συγγνώμην ἄρ' αἰτέω τῷ Ἀπόλλωνί τι συγγράφων Ἑλληνιστὶ
help me I want to learn Arabic instead of Latin now
>>24778320>It's not really considered a separate language in a lot of publicationsthat could have something to do with the fact that it isn't a separate language
>>24795349>why the FUCK are Greek words so hard to retain?maybe because you're using dumb shit like flashcards?
>>24806617Nigga wtf kind of durka durka shit you finna read in arabic that beats anything you could read in Latin? Always judge it based on what you want to ACTUALLY READ.
Are the answers for the written questions in Athenaze uploaded somewhere so I can see if I got them right or not?
>>24806953I can't think of anything
>>24795349I've unironically read Athenaze at least 100 times per chapter. I can recall sentences without any effort, let alone words. Step it up lil nigga.
>>24807468How well do you know Greek now, outside of Athenaze?
>>24807493I'm just reading a few of Plato's dialogues over and over again to brainwash myself into that particular idiom. After that, maybe Homer or orations.
>>24807468>I've unironically read Athenaze at least 100 times per chapter.h-how long did this take you?
>>24807651Maybe a year? never really kept track. Time flies when you're having autistic fun.
>>24807453If you can’t list at least a million words of text you really have a burning desire to read you shouldn’t dedicate years learning how to read it
>>24807703But if I don't learn Latin ill be stupid forever
>>24806617So you want to read Zvttsmut in the original more than you want to read Virgil and Augustine?
>>24806617biggest advantage would be that it's politically still quite relevant today, regardless of the literaturebut I'm not sure that aside from people who do it for a living you can easily learn a language you don't somewhat find interesting to engage with daily
is Latin poetry worth reading?
Is there any online version of osweald bera I really want to learn old English
>>24808462no obviously not that's why nobody in this thread is learning latin
>>24808469WHENEVER PEOPL SAY SVCH AS THIS I ALWAYS ASVME THEYRE DOG WHISTLING AS RACIST OR PERHAPS A FAN OF GENRE FICTION. I CANT IMAGINE WHY ANYONE WHO IS NOT A HISTORIAN WOVLD BE INTERESTED THEY HAVE NO WRITINGS. THEY ARE NOT ANTIQVITY. THEY ARE DEAD. AT LEAST NORSE HAS A VIKING LARP.
>>24807936Nigga how can you not find a million words in the entire Western canon worth reading? Sounds like you need some introspective personal development, humanist style.
>>24808612What the hell are you talking about? I'm not sure you read that post right
>>24808499For my part I just love Chaucer and Tolkien. IMO larpers go for old norse more anyways.
>>24808616I’m not sure you did
>>24808623I'm not trying to do some epic own here dude but nowhere in my post does it say I can't find anything in the western canon
>>24808499Some people just like anything medieval. Or they're English. Or they want to learn more about the development of the English language. There are a million reasons you redditor retard
for attic greek, does anyone know of downloadable dictionaries i can use for Yomitan other than the wiktionary dictionary?I was hoping project Perseus or some other site might make a downloadable dictionary available but im afraid they don't (couldn't find one) and i think i may have to generate one myself using the project perseus SQL dump files.
>>24808838Dig around here, this website is great for digital dictionaries. Might be able to get it to work with Yomitan but I am unfamiliar with the programhttps://latin-dict.github.io/list_greek.html
>>24808635And I just think you either made a representation far removed from your actual thoughts, you misread or misunderstood my own posts, or both.
>>24763657alright whats up with all these chinese people studying classics at a university level? i thought this was a white man's thing
>>24808941Well neither. Maybe you misread.
>>24808469i can't find anything in the mega about oe. is it just not allowed here
>>24808618Loser>>24808812Fuck you>>24809199You should not learn it until you learn Latin and Greek. This is for your own good.
>>24809199You mean the Latin/Greek Mega? Think really hard, why would the Latin/Greek Mega not have Old English in it?
>>24809343sorry to offend you sir i meant no ill will however the megas are not labeled also there is a second mega that is not devoted to latin or greek but also does not contain what i seek
>>24809359it's on anna's archive
What's the best way of learning attic greek using comprehensible input?
>>24809837Athenaze simpel AS
>>24809837Something like this guy is doing>>24807468>>24807519Though most people would supplement Xenophon.
>>24809903(in Italian ofc)
Do you guys use pages or time to track your input in your TL? What time-split between LLPSI and a textbook is appropriate? Right now I am doing ~90min Wheellock to 60min of LLPSI
>>24809932it's kinda like working out, guidelines matter more than absolute weight or days, when I started I couldn't read as much as later on, so obviously the daily cap was smaller initiallytry to apply the same principle, lift to failure + consistency -> put a cap that keeps you busy every day for however time you can dedicate to it and be consistent i.e don't read a chapter in 10 minutes and then spend 40 minutes on the phone, if you can do one in 10, do 4-5, and so onthat being said ideally I used chapters as natural units, but e.g reading poetry I had a cap in terms of lines read
>>24802783>Why would you choose "culprit?" That implies that eternal salvation is something bad.That's why it doesn't work that well, but in the other uses in the NT it was in Pilate not finding any fault with Christ. I thought "culprit" was nice because of its etymological basis from Latin culpa, tying it to how Pilate did not find any guilt, but it's not neutral unlike the causa that was used in the Vulgate. Perpetrator was the other word that was in mind, and it works better due to having less of the negative implications of culprit but it didn't have its etymological link. If culprit could be used it would also have that ironic aspect to it in how Christ was condemned as a criminal, but his condemnation and passion led to eternal salvation.
>>24809069I’ve met at least 3 Korean lawyers with Latin undergrads.>>24809230Why are you so angry that people wanting to read more about their native language’s archaic form?
>>24808902>Dig around here, this website is great for digital dictionaries. Might be able to get it to work with Yomitan but I am unfamiliar with the program>https://latin-dict.github.io/list_greek.htmlThanks, I was able to make a compatible Greek dictionary. So far the one I made seems somewhat useful in providing a basic morphological dictionary. I think wiktionary also provides morphological info, but not necessarily as well as the one that I made.>pic related is the popup dictionary Yomitan, which is using my bootleg morphological dictionarywhat I did was use the files linked here:https://latin-dict.github.io/dictionaries/morphology-grc.htmlwith this software, in order to convert it into the format required by Yomitan:https://github.com/ilius/pyglossaryThen I just ran the pyglossary package locally and provided the morphology-grc.ifo file as the input.
>>24810279Old English is poppycock. A waste of time. More autistic than German with even less literature. Staggeringly bereft of any writings of worth at all. A waste of neuroplasticity. The only reason to learn it is if you're an archaeologist or a racist.
Greek is so much easier than Latin it's unreal
>>24810612do explain my good chap
>>24810637Just feels less opaque. Articles and more distinct endings, I guess
Thinking about it, I can't remember any language that hasn't been called easy at one point or another in here.Latin? Babby's first CL.Greek? >>24810612Hebrew? Called easy by y.t.Aramaic? Called easy by Ethiopianon (or someone else?)Sanskrit? Called easy recently (super regular and all that)Pali? Koine SanskritMiddle Egyptian? Called easy some time agoWhat then is an indisputably hard language?Classical Chinese maybe? Or Arabic, but for the latter, for some reason, there are hardly any informed people in here.
>>24810655anyone here learn akkadian/sumerian/weird semitic languages?
>>24810720I am doing my second year of ANE Studies; I do Akkadian and am now busying myself with Sumerian and Hittite. What do you want to know precisely?
>>24810610I guess it depends on how seriously you take it. It’s for fun. Lots of people would say the same thing about Latin, and they’d be wrong.
>>24811037btw dont study Humanities bros keep it to a hobby.
>>24811177No. I won't.
>>24811037NTA, but: Do you find any of them easy? So we can add them to the list >>24810655But I'm genuinely interested. The writing system seems hellish, but people not planning to join ANE Studies will have to rely on editions anyway, and I guess transliteration is standard there, so one could mostly skip uniform if one want's to read Gilgamesh.Do you happen to know (or have an easy way to find out) how many words (or semitic roots, or whatever) there are in Gilgamesh? Strange that it's impossible to find on the internet, I would have expected immediately find a vocabulary list.
Is there a Ranieri-Roberts Approach to Latin similar to the greek spreadsheet??
>>24811392Yes. It's called the Justinmeister-Reddit Approach to Ancient Latin.
>>24810610You could just say you hate white people.
>>24810610>Staggeringly bereft of any writingsWhat gets me is that you either meant to say that there isn't a lot on Amazon- because you can find tons of materials in just about everything online, or you meant to say that that you're just not interested in Anglo-Saxon culture. It seems more the later sense you admitted to being a Europhobe in your post and attacked the quality of things you've never read, but what really gets me there is that Anglo-Saxon, while having less in total than Greek or especially Latin, has about as much as most other medieval languages and more than many ancient languages.
>>24812261>getting ruffled over a shitpost/clg/ remains the easiest thread to trigger. Keep falling for bait
>>24812080Lmao I thought this said Judenmeister-Reddit
>>24811325Reading transliteration is doable. Transcribing of some little tablet that fits in the palm of my hand makes me regret my life choices.We don't have a word count for Gilgamesh as the text is produced by combining fragments of poems. The version you read is more akin to a DIY project
>>24810655Classical Chinese is very easy if you speak good Mandarin or Cantonese or are very well-read in Japanese. Much easier than Latin is to an English speaker. So I actually found CC easier than Latin.If I was going into CC with zero foundation in Chinese it would be pretty hard tho.
>>24812859Excellent, another one for the list, with reservations.Not sure what to do with the "doable" for Akkadian.>>24812832> We don't have a word count for Gilgamesh as the text is produced by combining fragments of poems. The version you read is more akin to a DIY projectOkay, sure, I meant a distinct word count for any standard edition like the George's. Only for didactic reasons, so people know that learning, say, the top 2000 gets them to understand 99% of Gilgamesh. Numbers pulled out of my ass. There was a diagram posted some time ago (that I'm unable to find now) where vocabulary sizes where given for books of the Hebrew Bible, and Genesis might have been around 2000, but that's a good deal longer than Gilgamesh.
does anyone have Athenaze Teacher's Handbook 1?Looking online it seems the only place that has it is on scribd
>>24813292seems to be on anna's archive, if this is what you seek
>>24813542Awesome thanks
i started my 2nd attempt at learning ancient greek today. my first attempt was earlier this year where i went around 2 1/2 months before stopping as I ignored all the exercises and realized when i decided to start answering them that i actually couldn't do them at allim happy that i do seem to remember some vocab and grammar rules
>>24814083good luck anon. on my 3rd attempt here tbqhwy senpai
>>24814160thank youyou too anon
>>24810655> Pali? Koine Sanskritgod I wish, there are a lot of phonetic changes that are reflected in orthography, so nothing looks as you expect it. greeks at least had the decency to keep writing things the old way even as all of their vowels collapsed into /i/.
Coming back to Latin after a hiatus. It seems like I have only two speeds when reading real text. Either I move painfully slowly, making sure I understand each word and can work out the grammar and structure of a sentence, or I just keep moving and hope to pick up unknown words or grammar from context. The former feels more like solving a crossword puzzle than actually reading, while the latter is just relying on pure vibes and causes me to miss a lot of fundamental information.I'm still just not good enough to be reading for content rather than language practice. Feels bad.
>>24814853Maybe you need an easier text? How far along are you,m?
>>24806617Classical Persian has better literature than Arabic, unless you are autistically interested in Islamic history/philosophy. It's also much easier. I used to study both but decided Persian was more worth my time since I'm not Muslim.>>24810637Probably referring to Greek having easier syntax, definite articles, and the case endings are easier to distinguish while Latin merged some of the endings. Latin authors also seem to love playing with the word order more.
>>24814853What are you reading lolThis was me even with easy shit like Nepos a few months ago now I can read at a decent pace so just keep practicing
I have lost the ability to read texts. I can not read anything that isn't shortform content. Woe me. Woe me.
>>24815802I just browse Classictok for short latin/greek excerpts instead of books bro
>>24815818link some classictok so i can get it in my algorithm
>>24815818Does /clg/ really
>>24815850you think we can afford loebs? Tiktok fits nice at work. Reading dual language texts is impossible on the phone
A classics professor goes to a tailor to get his trousers mended. The tailor asks: “Euripides?” The professor replies: “Yes. Eumenides?”
>Why are you learning Latin, no one speaks it>There isn't much written in it, they say>Meanwhile every single medieval letter I come across is in Latin>Trying to prove or disprove classical era forgeries is impossible without Latin because every single link to each tiny shred of evidence I need is swimming in a deluge of untranslated Latin text online>Literally no English or German copies for these letters- literally have to sit down and translate ten or fifteen pages of Latin just to find the historical meatHonestly, if you meet someone that calls themselves a historian and they don't know Latin- they're lying. They're lying out of their ass.
>>24815855Used loebs are like $15Are you really that poor?
>>24815964First two are true, THOUGH.The classical corpus is small, and someone recently said that nothing really good was written in Latin after that, and I'm hard pressed to come up with a counterexample that's not history or theology.
>>24815978>Used loebsI have such a bad experience buying used classics books. They ALL have had ripped pages, pencil and pen marks throughout. Some are basically unusable. Not to mention a single author often comes in sets of two or three for a single book. Loeb could easily have fit all parts into a larger normal sized book and charged the same amount, but you have to remember what kind of name Loeb is to understand why those wretches refuse.
>>24815988>The classical corpus is smallYou simply don't read anything before the 19th century. You're on a literature board and you think Hemingway and Twain were the start of it. >I'm hard pressed to come up with a counterexample that's not history or theology.Look if you want to read Old Glory Milking Farm or whatever that's on you. But if you're reading history at all you really cannot do it without Latin. There are still historical texts sold on the market that only come in Latin/Greek or in combos of those two. I'm struggling because the later Latinists around the 16th-19th century are extremely complex. You can tell they spoke multiple languages and used Latin regularly because of how they set up their clauses. Wringing out metaphors is like extracting a washcloth of water. It's insane. But anyways, have fun with your teen girl dramas. Which, by the way, why would you come to a classics board and complain that the languages are too historical? Bizarre.
>>24815993All the used Loebs and OCTs I’ve gotten have been great so you’ve just had bad luck I guessNew Loebs are absolute ass though
>>24816008>All the used Loebs and OCTs I’ve gotten have been great>New Loebs are absolute ass thoughDo you get paid to post bad opinions?
>>24815988Extremely low iq post
>>24816010New loebs are awfully bound, literally just glued together. And the boards sometimes don’t line up. Not to mention the printed POD-book-from-New-Delhi tier text on the inside
>>24816021My newer editions have held up fine. The real issue is that the notations are often wrong on historical notes. Or you can see where they copied the notes from a century ago and did not bother to update the information at all. Reading the footnotes to Loeb, then and now, makes me want to redact all phds and have them retest to claim their doctorates.
>>24816003>>The classical corpus is small> You simply don't read anything before the 19th century.What. No, the classical corpus is small because the word count is around 5 million. Give or take a few millions, this is smaller than many YA slop series of a single author. The red Loebs famously fit in a few rows of a single shelf. How is any of this up to debate?> But if you're reading history at all you really cannot do it without Latin.I was agreeing with you, you retard. That's exactly why I wrote> a counterexample that's not history or theology.because for theology or medieval history, you obviously need Latin.> But anyways, have fun with your teen girl dramas. Which, by the way, why would you come to a classics board and complain that the languages are too historical? Bizarre.Look, I recently read the Gesta Francorum, and it was fun and of course incredibly important as a source. But is it the "really good" work the other guy asked for? Does it in any way compare to the Aeneid? Or even to the near contemporary vernacular literature? Surely not. Does anything else in medieval Latin?Probably not, because you could have just dropped a name instead of sperging out with> have fun with your teen girl dramas.
>>24816050>No, the classical corpus is small because the word count is around 5 millionIs this really true? Seems shockingly small
>>24816050>the classical corpus is small because the word count is around 5 millionYou are saying that the total amount of all Latin writing is around 5 million? That is not correct. Are you just using the Loeb library for this? Catholic encyclopedias have several times this in words just in letters alone. Furthermore, Latin is not restricted to the classical period. It continues to dominate through the entire middle ages up until the industrial period.>I was agreeing with you, you retard. That's exactly why I wroteYour implication, whether you knew it or not, is that history is a small genre. It's most of what I read so to hear it marginalized felt strange, because there's so much of it and it's critical.>But is it the "really good" work the other guy asked for?Yes it's good. >Does it in any way compare to the AeneidNothing does. It's better than sex.>Or even to the near contemporary vernacular literatureYes and it's not even close.>Does anything else in medieval LatinYes, like all of it is better than 21st century slop. Crazy that we live in the time of literal AI braindead no-plot, flawed characters gallore (aka retards for protagonists) and you're complaining about the golden age. It's more than weird. It's shameful.But if you're arguing why Latin isn't as good as your first language, it's because of primacy bias. Everyone thinks their first language speaks to them in a way that others don't. It's why Spanish speakers speaking to English speakers always translate things but add, "it hits different in Spanish". Like, no it doesn't. It does that for *you* because you grew up with it first. The English hits just fine for me.
>>24816056No he's an idiot.
>>24816056Right now, I'm only able to track down this quote:> Things are quite different in Latin, where there is, for the classical period, a surviving mass of literature estimated at no more than 9,000,000 wordsBut it makes a big difference where exactly you put your cutoff date: after 200, you get lots and lots of Christian stuff that soon dwarfs what came before.Not that it makes much difference, the discrepancy is about the word count of Wheel of Time.>>24816064>>the classical corpus is small because the word count is around 5 million> You are saying that the total amount of all Latin writing is around 5 million? That is not correct. Are you just using the Loeb library for this? Catholic encyclopedias have several times this in words just in letters alone. Furthermore, Latin is not restricted to the classical period. It continues to dominate through the entire middle ages up until the industrial period.Can you fucking read? What do you think could I possibly mean when I write "the CLASSICAL corpus"?>>Does anything else in medieval Latin> Yes, like all of it is better than 21st century slop. Look at this sentence you quoted. Now look at what the antecedent is.No, it's not AI slop, or really any modern literature, neither of which I even mentioned in my post, it's the Aeneid.
>>24816101>you get lots and lots of Christian stuff that soon dwarfs what came beforeWhy would you not count this as classical and Latin if it's both in the classical period and in Latin? That's insane.>Can you fucking readYou just debunked yourself lmfao>Look at this sentence you quoted. Now look at what the antecedent is.When you said "near contemporary vernacular literature" you left the gate too wide and too open for any number of interpretations. You asked for this. Be more precise if you don't like inviting generalizations. Contemporary could be contemporaneous to the time or contemporary to ours, and in my own telling I chose sometime in between because of the word 'near'. You are an idiot, a rube, and quite frankly, a faggot. If I keep conversing with you I become at risk of being associated with that. Good day sir.
>>24815988>The classical corpus is smallNo>nothing really good was written in Latin after thatNoExposed for not reading any Latin
There are niggas ITT who haven’t even finished LLPSI and are talking about how “small” the Latin corpus is lmaoIt’d still take you years to get through even if you used the most narrow definition of classical possible
>>24816050Gesta Francorum is fucking peak and you ought to kill yourself.Plus, it was written at the end of the 11th century. WHAT contemporary vernacular literature?
>>24816153>>24816160You're right actually
>>24816111> Why would you not count this as classical and Latin if it's both in the classical period and in Latin? That's insane.Whether you agree or disagree, this is a very common periodization for Latin, common enough for the infobox on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_LatinOr, if you don't believe Wikipedia, take it up with the Oxford Latin Dictionary, 200 is their cutoff date.> When you said "near contemporary vernacular literature" you left the gate too wide and too open for any number of interpretations.So you chose the least plausible one. I sure hope your historical research is a hobby with those skills at interpreting text.>>24816160> Plus, it was written at the end of the 11th century. WHAT contemporary vernacular literature?Again, read: I wrote NEAR contemporary for a reason. I was thinking of Dante, but a number of Arthurian works in OF or OHG work too.> Gesta Francorum is fucking peak and you ought to kill yourself.It's nice, but it's not great.If you're actually arguing that it's better than Dante, few people would agree, but at least you would have made an honest statement, instead of sperging out over multiple replies over how good medieval Latin literature is without putting any names to the test.
>>24816202>Whether you agree or disagree, this is a very common periodization for Latin, common enough for the infobox on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_LatinThat's not common at all and Rome survived until either the 5th or 6th century, depending on which figure you cut off at. Aurelian and Constantine would be considered medieval by that definition- and that's crazy. Nobody would consider that.>So you chose the least plausible one. I sure hope your historical research is a hobby with those skills at interpreting text.Like he pointed out here:>>24816160>Plus, it was written at the end of the 11th century. WHAT contemporary vernacular literature?So you already picked a medieval text while discussing classical literature. There's nothing even wrong with the text you mentioned. It's good. Your appeal to snoodiness fell flat. As for your failure to describe the time periods your discussing, do better. You're on a lit board. Choose better adjectives and specify.
>>24816236> Aurelian and Constantine would be considered medieval by that definitionOnly if your periodization doesn't allow for anything in between classical and medieval. Note that my original post doesn't even mention medieval, only classical and "after that": >>24815988At some point later in the discussion I did ask for great medieval (instead of for post-classical) literature, which was an oversimplification. But surely you wouldn't suggest an author from 200-600, now that you fought so hard to subsume those under the classical era, so what difference does it make?> So you already picked a medieval text while discussing classical literature.I don't understand your point. I wasn't discussing classical literature, I mentioned a medieval text that I read and was entertained by and still wouldn't dream of ascribing the literary qualities of Livy to.And even then, there's a reason I excluded historical works in my query: their worth is somewhat divorced from their literary qualities. It could be a boring chronicle written in real dogshit Latin and still be a valuable source (which I conceded from the start).> There's nothing even wrong with the text you mentioned. It's good. Your appeal to snoodiness fell flat.It's good, not great. When I ask for a great work: crickets. It's spelled snootiness.
>>24816153The Harry Potter books are about a million words put together and as a kid I devoured them in a matter of weeks.
>>24815978I have 40k debt, no job and get 1.2k a month of loans of which 60% goes to rent and 30% to food and 10% to healthcare
>>24816342>comparing Cicero, Homer, Vergil and Sophocles to Harry Potter/clg/
>>24816414I'm aware they're far better literature, I'm just saying that a million words is not all that enormous an amount of text.
>>24816371atleast u got student loans. I got no income and am using the homeless shelter chromebook to post here
>>24816331>Only if your periodization doesn't allow for anything in between classical and medievalI don't, most people don't, and you failed to offer one. If you want to suggest that Aurelian and Constantine are not classical then you are going to have to put in some effort to do so.>At some point later in the discussion I did askYou failed to use decent language to explain what you mean, you can just move on from that. We don't have to keep reflecting on that. If you want to compare texts, just compare them by name instead of leaving it to others because obviously everyone else in this thread disagrees with you.>It's spelled snootinessPicrel
>>24816420Then go devour them in a matter of weeks and move on.
>>24816464You're such a disingenuous fuck.
>>24816496You're not beating the accusations.
Lol they got the thread to bump limit with their little argument
>>24816342responsione indignum
>>24816648Again, I'm not saying they're on par as literature (they're entertaining children's books, but that's all they are), I'm trying to give a notion of what a million words actually looks like.
>>24816688NOVUM
>>24816202>Fourth Wing is “near contemporary” to Milton
>>24816331This nigga thinks the crisis of the 3rd century happened in the middle ages
>>24816766lmfao
NOVUM>>24816688 NOVUM>>24816688 NOVUM
