new to the genre and reading Hammett now. I enjoyed Big Sleep by Chandler but thought it was a bit convoluted. the prose and style of everything is of course pretty slick. what noir books do you all like? whether it's classics like this or more modern neo-noir I am curious to dig more into the genre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hH_Iwrvefk
All of Hammett’s novels are fantastic Chandler is deliberately convoluted since he considers actual crime to be messy and full of irrational actions and loose ends, rather than tidy. He wrote an essay on why he wrote like that
>>24773067>Chandler's proseinteresting. not noir but I've often thought Philip K Dick writes how he does (confusing, poorly, "just what the fuck is going on in this book?") for similar reasons - meant to convey paranoia and our sensibilities around reality. and man do I hate it sometimes. I'll keep going with Hammett thanks anon
Willeford is worth reading
>>24773057
>>24773316nice, thanks
Read this a couple years ago and really enjoyed it
>>24773057I was super stoked to read this and then just couldn't get into itsomething about the writing style just threw me off
>>24773298basedmy picrel series changed my life
>>24773057My two favorites are the Lew Archer series by Ross Macdonald and the Parker series by Richard Stark.Lew is a private eye from the 40s to the 70s. Much tighter plotting than Chandler with equal prose. The plots are usually centered around some really fucked up family with dark secretsParker is a career criminal. The books are very short with sharp to the point prose. Parker is a very efficient, calculating, and methodical planner. His heists are always well planned but some wild card or factor comes in and fucks his plan and he has to rapidly adapt to come out on top.Both series have their formulas, but they are good formulas.
>>24773057October is spooky month. Noir is for November.
>>24773057I gave Maltese Falcon a go, but Hammett's style never clicked for me. It felt all nicotine stained nervous sweat surface with nothing underneath it.But Chandler, on the other hand, was absolutely lovely. Goodbye My Lovely in particular was a high point. My particular gripe with Hammett was the lack of any internal world or process for the characters, and no discernible atmosphere, whereas Chandler was the opposite of that, often preferring it to the plot.
>>24774281>My particular gripe with Hammett was the lack of any internal world or process for the charactersHammett's principal trick is to avoid scrupulously any description of his characters' internal worlds (thoughts, emotions). That doesn't mean they don't have any; but he does makes a point only to imply them through words & actions.Sometimes you can see he really, really wants / needs to break his rule but he sticks to his guns and he ends up contorting himself and overloading the "significant" external detail. But usually he gets away with it.>and no discernible atmosphereHe doesn't feed you the rich chocolate cake atmosphere the way Chandler does. it's there but you have to supply a bit more yourself.>>24773427>something about the writing style just threw me offHammett is good but I think the one flaw in his writing is something that his editor at Black Mask (Joe Shaw) put his finger on. Chandler mentions it in a letter. Shaw said that basically Hammett didn't have any warm feelings towards any of his characters.The more I think about it the more I agree. And that's why his style feels thin, perhaps. You want something that he's not giving you.
>>24774281Chandler opined that Hammett was stylistically influenced by Hemingway, both striving for a “show, don’t tell” approach. Hammett’s style here would actually have a key influence on visual storytelling, since Kurosawa’s Yojimbo is based on The Glass Key and Red Harvest, and it in turn would be remade into a Fistful of Dollars.Actually, you might try Red Harvest since it is told in first-person. All of his Continental op stories are. The Thin Man is also in first-person and is lighter in tone
well this is OP and I read a bunch of Maltese Falcon yesterday and really digging it - thanks all for the discussion and recommendations
>>24773057On a prose and vibes level Farewell, My Lovely is the ideal noir novel to me. The stories of James M. Cain are also a must read.
The Necessary Death of Lewis Winter
>>24773057Library of America selected Noir.
>>24773057I agree with most of what’s listed here so will add this novel by Davis Grubb. Idk if he wrote any other noir but this spooky novel ranks up there. The movie of it is an more acquired taste.
>>24776337>Library of AmericaVery nice editions.
