Wow the ancient world really was better
>>24774235I love how it starts with a "da jooz" argument about the phoenicians.
>>24774235Egypt... First feminist nation...
>>24774235you gonna elaborate or what
>>24774382Read the fucking book
>>24774389Why would I read an entire book because of one vague and low effort /lit/ post you dumb bitch.
>>24774382Niggas kill each other as god intended
No shit.
>>24774452Medieval peasants did not get holidays. Most of them as farmers were straight up exempt from them, when they were practiced they were usually regional only and only a few times a year. The only time of the year they didn't really have any work to do was winter, and they tried working more labor work instead in that time
Wow Communism really was better
>>24774392You've never heard of Herodotus before? You need someone on /lit/ to "sell you on it"?
>>24774523Sorry for expecting an effort post and not some retarded one liner and a picture. Sorry for not having intimate knowledge of every obscure greek historian known to man.
>>24774526>obscureNow, don't be a retarded nigger faggot, he's the only greek historian most people know about.
>>24774235I liked Herodotus for his constant digressions and occasional levity, I thought he would be a lot more dry and boring. Currently reading Plutarch's Lives, can you recommend anything fun?
>>24774467They had religious holidays, observed the sabbath, and would often enjoy feasts and festivals on saint days. Holidays doesn't equal 2 weeks abroad, retard. Even if they had to tend to their farms on a saint day they'd likely finish earlier in the day and then be able to enjoy wine with their community. Unlike the wagies now, who have no such thing to look forward to.
>>24774555>Currently reading Plutarch's Lives, can you recommend anything nta but I liked Thucydides the most of any historian in antiquity. Other top historians are Polybius, Tacitus and Procopius. Caesar and Xenophon's Anabasis cover one whole military operation(s) each and are sort of 'adventure' histories. Ammianus and Appian are both good coverage of their own periods.
>>24774572>They had religious holidaysAnd were exempt from the vast majority of them. In Roman law they were explicitly exempt from all of them, with the logic being that a farmer would be wasting his time doing so>and would often enjoy feasts and festivals on saint days. Again. They were mostly just regional ones a few times a year. Not to mention if you were a serf, for some of these like Christmas and Easter, you had to pay for the manor's feast in a levy or produce and did not receive anything.>Holidays doesn't equal 2 weeks abroad, retard. Even if they had to tend to their farms on a saint day they'd likely finish earlier in the day and then be able to enjoy wine with their communityThis is exactly what I am saying didn't happen.
>>24774574Thank you for that, I will start Thucydides as soon as I can going through Jerusalem right now and it's taking its toll on meI think Herodotus mentions some kid of tourist guide for ancient greece, is it worth giving a try or is it more of "go to this temple and you can see such such such such such such such and such votive offering"?
>>24774646>I think Herodotus mentions some kid of tourist guide for ancient greeceI know of one but he's 700 years after Herodotus. Pausanias is the name. It's more like a description and mini-history of each region, what's there and what's interesting. I think it's worth it for more small segments you are interested in because it does become a slog for how long it is. Pliny the Elder's Natural History is similar. Very interesting snippets but you will bash your head in actually reading the whole thing.
>>24774579>Agrarian peasants in the past worked modern industrial schedules of 7 days a week, 12 hours a day! No Jews didn't keep the Sabbath, they just hyperfixated on something no one actually ever did. No, all those texts about Indian and Chinese agrarian life from more recent times must be in error or just different because in Europe people definitely just worked all the time like Neoliberals. Texts describing agrarian life or why people were reticent to move to cities for factory jobs (largely due to lack of land, not hatred of the work) are all wrong and actually the human condition is essentially that under industrialism!Next you'll tell us hunter gatherers also worked like Chinese factory laborers and that we ought thank our lucky stars that we were born into the Neoliberal elite where they let us answer emails from home a few hours a day instead of staying at work longer.
>>24774579>>24774467This is literally false and propaganda.
>>24774452you must be really low IQ to believe this pictureyou wouldnt want to be a medieval peasant and work on a farm to survive, they didn't have walmarts back then where you could buy any product you want, bad harvest in summer? good luck surviving winteryou would work since sunnrise to sundown, and its a really hard manual work, not some faggot shit like putting numbers in excel
>>24774662>Agrarian peasants in the past worked modern industrial schedules of 7 days a week, 12 hours a day!Didn't say that>No Jews didn't keep the Sabbath, they just hyperfixated on something no one actually ever did.Didn't say thatYou don't have to make up some world where peasants never did any work and actually had half the year off because of things that either didn't exist or didn't apply to them. You are making up an imaginary world and arguing for it when there is no proof of it.>>24774663It's propaganda to tell somebody who is lying that they are lying.
>>24774555Plutarch digresses, often names his sources, provides alternate accounts when he's heard multiple versions of the same thing, and will say when something he's recording sounds implausible. Thucydides doesn't do this.Plutarch writes this on the death of Aristides>As touching the death of Aristides, some say he died in Pontus, on an expedition in the public service; others at Athens, of old age, honoured and admired by his countrymen. But Craterus the Macedonian tells something like this about the death of the man. After the exile of Themistocles, he says, the people waxed wanton, as it were, and produced a great crop of sycophants, who hounded down the noblest and most influential men, and subjected them to the malice of the multitude, now exalted with its prosperity and power. Among these he says that Aristides also was convicted of bribery, on prosecution of Diophantus of the deme Amphitropé, for having taken money from the Ionians when he was regulating the tributes; and, further, that being unable to pay the judgment, which was fifty minas, he sailed away and died somewhere in Ionia. But Craterus furnishes no documentary proof of this, — no judgment of the court, no decree of indictment, — although he is wont to record such things with all due fulness, and to adduce his authorities.>All the rest, as I may venture to say, — all who rehearse the shortcomings of the people in dealing with their leaders, — compile and descant upon the exile of Themistocles, the imprisonment of Miltiades, the fine of Pericles, the death of Paches in the court room, — he slew himself on the rostrum when he saw that he was convicted, — and many such a case, and they put into the list the ostracism of Aristides, but of such a condemnation as this for bribery they make no mention whatsoever.Thucydides would write>Aristides died in Pontus on an expedition in the public service.If he would mention his death at all, as he often completely disregards such details as one's death if it's superfluous to his narrative, like the Spartan King Archidamus II who dies but Thucydides never says so, he just replaces him with his son in describing a season of the Peloponnesian invasion of Attica.
>>24774241elaborate?
>>24774579Who mentioned Rome, retard?>regional ones a few times a yearYeah, and the average person is lucky to get one day off for Christmas. I know it must be easy when you get a week off for Hannakuh.
>>24774235We would have been slaves or destitute farmers.
>>24775276We are already slaves.
>>24774675>You wouldn't want to do meaningful labor with tangible benefits instead of being a part of a dehumanizing machine>You wouldn't want a world without Wal-mart>You love being malnourished with processed corn syrup slop etc.This entire post is capitalist sissy hypno.
>>24774675cringe appeal to emotion that flies in the face of facts.
>>24774675It's good hard work. I worked as an outdoor guide doing backpacking and climbing for years and they were the best years of my life. Unfortunately I got memed into muh status and muh money and got a "real job."Calorie consumption plunged early in the industrial revolution as does the health of skeletons. Sure, there were bad harvests and diseases. The technology to lessen these ills is like 2% of what we use today to build our hellscape.Despite having huge families to split their inheritance the Amish have more wealth than their modernity addled neighbors and live healthier lives and do better on almost every metric, showing that whole centuries of "progress" and soiance are less adventageous than even a minimal focus on virtue and community.
>>24775278But at least we aren't slaves for destitute farmers.
>>24774555>digressionsAulus Gellius' Attic Nights and Athenaeus' Deipnosophistae basically take these and turn them into books.
>>24775395>Unfortunately I got memed into muh status and muh money and got a "real job."The outdoor guide job could only exist because people with real jobs patronized you. Go back to the past and you won't have those patrons.
>>24775504Yes, but the same general way of life is far more common back then without the decidedly bad quality of having to constantly move and leave behind the friends you have made.In general, what people find really valuable about OAE isn't the activities per se, but the pace of life, community, and way of being. Kurt Hahn founded Outward Bound based on his reading of Plato and Cistercian practice for example. Unfortunately, the field has been beset by commercialization and therapeutization so it has lost some of this focus.
>>24774235>the ancient world really was betterYou guys know when this realization was first made? It was in the 1300s when they were contemplating the ruins of ancient Rome and consequently began the Renaissance. Imagine if Rome was made of wood. Then the Renaissance never would have happened.
>>24775395you're describing the advent of capitalism, not the recession of religion
>>24775704They're deeply related and mutually reinforcing.
>>24775771how do we explain the current resurgence of christianity specifically among the demographic that supports capitalism?
>>24774495Solzhenitsyn was a retarded CIA shill who told even more retarded lies Also, the living standards of Soviet Russia compared to the shithole it is now were infinitely better, so you are not wrong
>>24774675
>>24775786Desperation. Western civilization is suffering from a deep metaphysical wound and spiritual rupture but people do not really understand it and liberalism is the dogmatic faith of our time, indoctrinated into all, so the people take up contradictory, self-undermining world views.
>>24775786It probably has to do with a return to tribalism in an age of globalism and mass migration
>>24775790Every single time someone mentions Solzhenitsyn some ADL/Mossad agent comes out of the woodwork to slander him I wonder (((why))
>>24776104>defending this glownigger retard because he says things you likeAnyone who actually read his book can tell that he is clearly making shit up because he was seething over being sent into the cope cages in Siberia.It's like with that North Korean chick with the big tits who is making up incredible retarded lies over her experiences in the DPRK so she can keep receiving her weekly glowie check, and all the good goys are eating it up because they are the epitome of the NPC meme
>>24775786What resurgence? A handful of terminally online larpers?
>>24775865Agreed on the marriage and community accounts but those are pretty standard to everywhere across history except our current hellscape. By contrast these accounts of time worked are usually just time owed in requisitioned labor to feudal managerial institutions and don‘t consider personal farming being the sum of basically the rest of one‘s time.
>>24776123>North Korean chick with the big titsThe one who was attacked by a negress?
>>24776190the cutie but really retarded one, the one who was on Joe Rogan and said that in NK trains are pulled by dudes because they are so poor kek
>>24776123>It's like with that North Korean chick with the big tits who is making up incredible retarded lies over her experiences in the DPRK so she can keep receiving her weekly glowie check, and all the good goys are eating it up because they are the epitome of the NPC memeIs it your assertion that the DPRK is really not that bad?
>>24776215No, but I'm not a zogbot. I use my own judgment to assess the validity of what I'm being told. When some fat titted asian chick tells me that back in NK trains were being pulled by its citizens because they were so poor, then I will use my common sense and give that statement 3 lying Pinocchios
>>24776222>I use my own judgment to assess the validity of what I'm being told.It just so happens that what is valid totally aligns with Communigger propaganda about how great the 2nd world was and how bad the CIA were for dismantling it, even though almost every CIA op was a failure and the communards were personally responsible for their own fuckups. I bet you believe empty Soviet grocery stores were a CIA op.
>>24774914>Who mentioned Rome, retard?It's almost like they used Roman law. Justinian's Codex was legally binding in Germany and Italy during the late 12th century.
>>24775477I second these, they're some of the most charming books of antiquity, peak comfy lit.
>>24776231>literally give an example of what I'm talking about>NPCnigger rambles about muh WWII and commiesdon't care zoglet, keep seething
>>24776231Please show me where the CIA says NK is actually great.
>>24776238>>24776250Two communists who are illiterate. How typical.
>>24776198>NK trains are pulled by dudes because they are so poor kekThis is true thougheverbeit
>>24776132There's archaeological evidence indicating that not only medieval serfs, but most subsistence farmers throughout most of history worked for about six hours a day most days, though it would be more during planting and harvesting seasons and less during winter. The 20 hours a week figure is inaccurate, but something like 30 wouldn't have been unheard of.
Serf communities, most pre-modern communities really, were more like socialist communes than anything we have today. They had the right idea.
