What else was there besides him from around that time? Surely there was something else that Dungeons and Dragons and the entirety of modern fantasy and video gaming sourced itself from. Were there no contemporaries or alternatives? Did this guy really invent "heroes with swords wander through the woods and visit magical places and kill monster men to stop a big bad lord"?
There's The King of Elfland's Daughter, which has more in common with ancient fairy tales than the epic poems Tolkien favored.There's Narnia, which really defined the quest format that post-Tolkien fantasy followed.Then there's The Worm Ouroboros and Mistress of Mistresses, which was too difficult for casuals to read and which triggered Tolkien's autism because they played too fast and loose with source mythology and etymologies.
>>24797488>Surely there was something else that Dungeons and Dragons and the entirety of modern fantasy and video gaming sourced itself fromhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appendix_N>The Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Dungeon Master's Guide (1979) was a book written by Gary Gygax to help people run games of Dungeons and Dragons (D&D).[1] It contained a series of appendices, including one titled "Appendix N: Inspirational and Educational Reading". Appendix N was a list of authors and works that were identified by Gary Gygax as the source of many concepts, tropes, spells and monsters that were used in the development of D&D.[2]
>>24797488>Iliad>Odyssey>Argonautica>Atlantis/greek myths>Walter Scott>Charles Kingsley>H Rider Haggard>Wagner (apparently; I am yet to find out for myself)>Literally all European mythology>William MorrisCome to my mind.He stole all of his ideas. The more you read what he was exposed to the more you come realise this. Keep going and you will cease to find anything original in his works. He just did it magnificently.
>>24797499>Then there's The Worm Ouroboros and Mistress of Mistresses, which was too difficult for casuals to read and which triggered Tolkien's autism because they played too fast and loose with source mythology and etymologiesThe worm ouroboros is funny, how the author based it on his childhood plays.
>>24797510>He "stole" his ideasAre there people over the age of 20 who still think things like this?
>>24797488Howard and Lovecraft were WAY more impactful than him. LotR is the equivalent of Harry Potter from the 60s.
>>24797530Yeah autistic fags, I wonder where the line is? is "I was hungry" me stealing because it was said before? Is me putting antlers on a man while drawing stealing because it has been done before?It's about arrangement... Take music, there are 12 notes to work with in twelve tone equal temperament which rules western music. Yet the amount of expression is endless with how you arrange the pieces. There are only so man permutations of chords, only so many rhythms and notes. You can use motifs, rhythms and chords progressions that have been used before. It's about putting them in a new context.
>>24797530>>24797543Choose whatever verb you want, semantics fagsLet me know which one you decide upon and I'll happily edit my post.
>>24797536Lovecraft's relation to the infinite universe was already covered in the bhagavad gita with Vishnus reveal. Oh my god I am just a little shit next to the infinite, Oh my god I can't explain the unexplainable.
>>24797566Apparently the concept of toilet wasn't in the bhagavad gida.
>>24797566Lovecraft takes from Dunsany's works, Azathoth is based on Mana Yood Sushai.
>>24797559It's not semantics, it's you being fundamentally wrong.
>>24797488Conan is basically the prototypical D&D style fantasy character. Every story he is in a new location, encounters something that sets him off on a new quest, and after fighting his way through some minions ends up facing the big boss monster at the end. Also he usually ends up collecting some treasure along the way.It would be difficult to write something more reminiscent of D&D if you tried.
>>24797642Respond with what verb would you choose and carefully explain the distinction. Now.
>>24797507The end of Tom Moldvay's D&D Basic rules also has a helpful list which is somewhat different from Appendix N
>>24797644>It would be difficult to write something more reminiscent of D&D if you tried.He's a single character rather than a party. Also he starts off already an ubermensch and not a lvl 1 2HP weakling.
>>24797703>he starts off already an ubermensch and not a lvl 1 2HP weakling.He must have rolled straight 18's.
>>24797644>It would be difficult to write something more reminiscent of D&D if you tried.Literally Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser
>>24797488>What else was there besides him from around that time?Lots of pulp fantasy.If you're talking about Dungeons and Dragons, it owes far more to pulp fantasy Robert E Howard, HP Lovecraft and especially Fritz Lieber (eg Fafhrd and Grey Mouser).>Did this guy really invent "heroes with swords wander through the woods and visit magical places and kill monster men to stop a big bad lord"?The Tolkienesque formula was invented by Lester Del Ray and Terry Brooks.
>>24797647influenced by>carefully explain the distinction. Now.I will, if you can explain to me how you came to be so stupid and ignorant that you need random anons to spoonfeed elementary word distinctions.
Edgar Rice Burroughs was huge in the early 20th century. He's fairly obscure now but he was a big influence on genre fiction for a long time.
>>24797488>Did this guy really invent "heroes with swords wander through the woods and visit magical places and kill monster men to stop a big bad lord"?no that was walter scott you dumb faggot
>>24797850I can't do anything until you present me with an actual argument i.e. your own choice of wording, you fat spastic. If you can't provide that, I win by default. Therefore I accept your concession.
>>24797700Good shit
>>24797936>influenced byRetard.Now admit you're a moron who cannot think for yourself, and I will tell you what to think.
>>24797644The barbarian class was based off of him, yeah
>>24797948Great choice of wording. I agree, he definitely was influenced by those authors. "Influenced" means he took a bunch of ideas from other authors for his own purposes. Which is what I meant by "steal".Therefore there is no material difference between our opinions, just different words, which is why I accused you of semantics, an argument a 14 year old (but not you) could understand.Retard.
If you actually read Appendix N it becomes much more clear that D&D’s mechanics are just a mishmash of concepts and tropes from 50s and 60s fantasy slop novels and short storiesBefore D&D they were playing historical wargames which morphed into role playing games with fantasy slop
>>24797965>"Influenced" means he took a bunch of ideas from other authors for his own purposes. Which is what I meant by "steal".Steal means you just lift an idea wholesale and pass it off as your own without substantially changing it or doing anything to make your new work original. There's an implicit derogation with steal. There is not with "influenced." Either you're too stupid to know this, or you're the one trying to use a fallacious semantic argument by pretending there's no meaningful difference between "steal" and "take influence from".
>>24799118>Steal means [autistic screeching]In your opinion, which isn't the slightest bit authoritative because there is a famous, longstanding quote that shows otherwise:https://medium.com/ben-shoemate/what-does-it-mean-good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal-ee8fd85317a0However, I just realised you are ESL so it wouldn't be fair to keep bullying you about this.
>>24799700If you had used the term in good faith, as you are pretending now, you wouldn't have argued about it like a faggot. I already pointed this out.
>>24799873>anon pretends he can read minds, admits that "steal" is an appropriate word, and that ackshually it's about "good faith" I accept your concession. Everyone in this thread knows that I am right and you have just humiliated yourself.Leave this thread if you know what's good for you. If you post anything else you confirm you are a moronic gaylord.
>>24799887>citing a cringe millennial blogLet's remind fishbrain what he actually wrote:>>24797510>Keep going and you will cease to find anything original in [Tolkien's] works.Note how he emphasized that he absolutely did not mean "influenced by." He explicitly denied that Tolkien did anything original, and instead of defending that point with anything other than a lazy spam of Tolkien influences (one so careless it includes "Literally all European mythology" as a line item) he seized on the opportunity to retreat into a fallacious semantics argument.He came here to shit on Tolkien but all he has done is expose himself as a mindless cocksucker.
>>24797530It irks me too. The proper term is inspiration.
>>24797488First edition was 1954.
>>24797488>What else was there besides him from around that time?Way too much for me to spoonfeed you, but LotR was nothing but a regression for a genre consisting of Weird Tales, Sword & Planet, Cosmic Horror, made up pantheons a la Dunsany, and stories where the MC is picrel
>>24797940>A good D&D campaign is imaginative and creativeYet somehow you always end up in a fucking dungeon.
>>24800926All of this and no one cared, before tolkien everyone considered the fantasy niche as a retarded genre for low IQ folk or infantile clowns
>>24800088>He came here to shit on Tolkien but all he has done is expose himself as a mindless cocksucker.Probably another fromdrone untermensch that worship GRRM
>>24797536>howardNo lol. Pulp as a genre encompassed more than him and more people remember the detective and a space stories.
>>24800997>complaining about dungeons>in a game called Dungeons and DragonsYou gonna complain about dragons next?
>>24797566Ironically Lovecraft assumed you guys were mindless cattle people who live in garbage, so there is a 0% chance he borrowed anything from Indo culture.