Gem pirates editionStubbed >>24808333>What is /wng/ — Web Novel General?A general for readers and authors involved or interested in the growing phenomenon of 'web novels', serialized English fiction posted to websites such as: Royal Road, Webnovel, Scribblehub, Wattpad, Archive of Our Own, Spacebattles, HFY, various personal author websites, and more>Why read web novels?Not for prose or tight editing or deep themes, frankly. As a whole, web novels are infamous for content sprawl and pacing issues. If you enjoy having millions of words to sink your teeth into to get to know the world and characters, though, you may be interested. Keeping up with other readers on a weekly basis to discuss the story's events unfolding is another perk, in the same way discussing an ongoing TV show might be.>Why write web novels?Ease of access & potential for Patreon earnings. Many successful authors gain an audience on their website of choice and funnel their readers into a Patreon. See graphtreon.com/top-patreon-creators/writing for an idea of what some are earning.Also, once an author has earned a fanbase, transitioning into an Amazon self-publishing career is several orders of magnitude easier than starting 'dry'.>/wng/ authors.https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSNZali-jIk2MASsAWVf8N7A8BlSyzPbAFV_BhsA5Ip3SWfMPWKxaXf8Pdb7f0TgFyWis31BzirtPeR/pubhtml>Advice for Noobs!##READ THE FOLLOWING BEFORE ASKING FOR HELP##Running your story like the business it is:www.royalroad.com/forums/thread/116847On writing web serials:alexanderwales.com/how-to-write-a-web-serial/Sanderson's Writing Lectures 2025:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEUh_y1IFZY&list=PLSH_xM-KC3ZvzkfVo_Dls0B5GiE2oMcLYRecommended web novelsrentry.co/d2yvczroAnon's guide to successrentry.co/RRBasicGuideFAQrentry.co/pytefpxn
>KeygeminIs it actually any good? The tripfag seems to think it's the only good wn produced by /wng/
>>24812786I have no clue it just seemed on par quality wise
>>24812751Do the gem pirates plunder this twink's boipucci?
>>24812786since fake-tripfag likes it, it must be trash
>>24812786Not read it but that tripfag had terrible taste based on what we'd both read.
>>24812960I'm trying to read wuxia and xianxia novels but the names are just too long and have too many characters so early.
>start reading something>it's present tensehow do these motherfuckers read enough to want to write without picking up on what tense fiction uses?
>>24812998Haven't you read enough to realise webnovel readers don't care about such things?
>>24812984don't even bother with wuxia
>>24812998How can you pretend that you read when you don't know there are present tense stories?
Get a load of this loser with his present-tense animadversions of the present tense. He's like mental handicap raised in the zen tradition.
>>24813007Yes done for a specific stylistic reason that takes advantage of it making the text feel wrong to read, not to write a generic fantasy story.
>>24813049The specific reason is usually to put the reader closer to the action, same as 1st person. Which is completely reasonable for a fantasy adventure story, generic or not
Instead of imposing a sense of urgency on the text and its reader, this shnook wants to isolate them both in the past, where unreality bounds the action like a paralyzing membrane, where they can nod off to the pedestrian rhythms of his prose.
>>24812984write a browser extension to replace names with western aliases
I just had an insane dream where I was reborn in a sci-fi fantasy worldShould I write a webnovel about it?
>>24813101Not all dreams warrant enshrining in prose, although that sounds vague enough to frame a good story--or a bad one. After all, RR is lush with stories that answer to that same description; in fact they embody a whole genre, right? Might want to limn a few more details before you ultimately decide.
>>24813049It only feels wrong to your autistic ass.
>arguing about past or present tenseThere are web novels that switch between first and third person.
>>24813177And often in the same sentence!
>>24812960people can read this for hundreds or thousands of chapters?
>>24813265Millions. And yet your webnovel gets no views. Sad!
>>24813265Y-yes..
Cultivators should go read Feng Shen Ji. The entire thing is in full color.
>>24813315Kung Fu Hustle is the best wuxia movie.
stop posting reverend dogshit
ok
>>24813340professional ragebaiter
>>24813070>The specific reason is usually to put the reader closer to the action, same as 1st person.That never works though.
So does Chin Wong Gu Foot ever actually fight anyone or is it all foreplay, no action?
>>24813394There is no fighting in chinese novels.
I have convinced myself that my idea is too good for my writing skills and now I can't write out of fear of failing to reflect the quality of my idea.
>>24813324Kung Pow was better.
>>24813432ideas are cheaper than you thinkbut if you really believe you dont have the chops, there's no harm in setting it aside for later in your career
>>24813432That's when you get a B idea and write that first.Like I've got one that requires a load of research so naturally I'm not starting with that.
>>24813444Research for what? Something that readers won't even care about? Just make a fantasy setting where real world knowledge doesn't apply.
>>24813464>Just make a fantasy setting where real world knowledge doesn't apply.If that's what you want to do, go for it. Kinda shit advice though, telling people what to write.>but it's easier and more popularokay if that's your logic go write romantasy. the fuck you doing in this niche space?
>>24813340Your bit is too long winded anon, you need to cut it down a lot
I'm only at like chapter 300 so I can't follow along.
>>24813479Don't think that's his just at a cursory glance
>>24813432>I have convinced myself that my idea is too good for my writing skills and now I can't write out of fear of failing to reflect the quality of my idea.just keep it in your backlog brody. I still have a guts x griffith fanfic I'm holding back on writing and I'm going with some nemona x trainer(me) fanfic for now.
>only been able to write 2k words per day the last few daysI think I'm hitting the limits of energy drinks and my fucked up circadian rhythm. I may need to detox before the writathon.
Give me cool academy ideas that aren't the typical mage ones
>>24812984>the names are too longhow? they're all like 2 or 3 syllables
>>24813741why? what's wrong with typical mage academy? I'd rather read typical mage academy than some 'subversive' garbage
>>24813741sex academy
>>24813754I don't mean subversive, I mean something other than mages that's interesting.>>24813755Succubus Academy I guess, but I ain't writing smut
>>24813741Warrior academy focused on physical training and conditioning like an ancient greek gymnasium with regular philosophical digressions on death, killing, putting one's life at risk, duty to the state and family, and so on.I mean shit the best part of Starship Troopers was almost exactly that. Just add more descriptions of lifting weights.Courier academy focused on cardio, running, and navigating cities could also be interesting.
>>24813741goblin academy. training future husbands of elven women.
>>24813741goblin engineering school where the students learn to slap garbage together into a mech suit and then use it to go fight humans / other gobbo tribes for more scrap archeology department studying the works of the ancient forerunners and sending their disposable students off into the ruins to discover more material, with or without hired adventurer partieslongbowman training camp in fantasy england where the despotic king kidnaps youths and has them train for decades in combat, fletching, and wilderness survival until they're the finest archers in the world and the only ones buff enough to wield the legendary yggdrasilwood longbows that conquered the world
>>24813741Doesn't matter what but something with lots of field work.Reading kids going to classes or exploring the dungeon under the school is old hatHell make the school a scam where it turns out kids aren't getting the education they expected.
>>24813741I had the idea from a Urban Fantasy story for a military academy where the students all fight with Gacha Monsters, as in with monsters they roll for with magical phones and what not. I wrote a bit of the first chapter but didn't feel like developing the magic system+didn't like writing an angsty character https://rentry.co/mxhxonmh
>>24813741Sex university where the professors are researching dual cultivation and students are learning dual cultivation magic to improve their power.
>>24813846bnwo university?
>>24813857No? I said researching.
>>24813741Engineer academy in a dieselpunk worldTop Gun but with mechasAssassin academy
>>24813888>Top Gun but with mechasThis is a top tier idea, im going to steal for a future arc in my story
>>24813788goblin academy. training future wives of human men
>>24813809the first two ideas are really cool, especially the first one. the third idea is good but suffers from the ever-present Fantasy Archery Problem™
>>24813888All good ideas actuallySurprised there isn't more Assassin ones since the Hashashin Order was a real thing
>>24813961There are a bunch of gook wns with that setting though
How about it's a mage academy, but--wait for it--it's a sex mage academy, and the building and demesne are divided into four zones, one for each kind of sex magic. The first is straight sex magic, another gay sex magic, yet another lesbian sex magic, and finally an "other sex magic." When those hailing from the "other" set walk through campus there's an unnerving glaze to their eyes that attracts the MC's notice. One night, under the shroud of a starless dark, he sneaks into the fourth zone and discovers a realm of Sadean nightmares.
>>24813888Top Gear but with mechas.
>>24813956>but suffers from the ever-present Fantasy Archery Problem™What is the fantasy archery problem? I want to write a fantasy archer as MC and feel like I need to know about this.
>>24814033>, and the building and demesne are divided into four zones, one for each kind of sex magicWhere's the pedophilia zone?Asking for a friend
>>24813961>>24814030Most iterations of "edgy shinobi village" or "demonic cult" are going to be straight copies of the hashashin order.
The new chapter of FFF-Class 'Unlucky Antagonist' is out.https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/119783/fff-class-unlucky-antagonist-villains-origin-story/chapter/2689531/sinful-blade-part-sixIn this chapter: Dude in the pic shows up.
>>24813741Cultivation, but not wizard cultivation. Have them do karate and bodybuilding and parkour and edging and glandular extracts from ogres and shit.
>>24814100Not really a problem. Just, in reality, bows are hard-countered by armor:https://youtu.be/Ej3qjUzUzQgBut it is fantasy, so it's not really that big a deal.
>>24814178Isn't that just Murim
>>24814195oh it's a hema larper ignoring all of history
>>24814100Fantasy archers are ladies and twinks, short, slender, nimble, use daggers for a backup weapon.Real yeomen are buff as fuck, the taller they are the more powerful their bow can be, have been known to just haul a maul for melee backup, can punch an ogre's jaw off its head or rip its head off its body. Archery is some of the most effective upper body strength training there is, especially if you're training to put out high-volume fire with a longbow.
>>24814106It's a British style boarding school, Prussian model, the pedo shit is baked in even before the sex magic is slapped on like a coat of paint of flood damage.
>>24814197I guess. But you can really have more fun if you don't try to force an aesthetic from a culture you don't really understand, no matter how many comics and novels you read. Make it a manosphere cult training school, but instead of a grift preying on lazy sacks of shit, it's legitimately a place for tough guys to get hard together, iron sharpening iron, crossing swords and touching tips. Just keep the Army Marine gay orgy shit off-screen and implicit, never address it directly,don't confirm or deny it, just keep describing topless muscle dudes glistening with sweat and exotic oils competing wholseomely and supporting each other with direct assistance and encouraging compliments and let the readers assume what they will.
Be honest with me anons. How much of the wn audience are browns and asians?
>>24814232Yes
>>24814232>How much of the wn audience are browns and asians?Not sure if you meant web novels or white nationalists but either way I'd say about 90%
>>24814232Considering the patrons, very little.
>>24814273it's kind of funny people think WNs are for 3rd worlders when there are literal hordes of people paying 10$ a month to these authors, and up to 20-30% of the royalroad follower counts converting to patreon
>>24814316realistically the two largest blocks in webnovel reader audiences are first-world westerners and SEAmonkey swarthoidsbut the SEAmonkeys don't read on western sites, they mostly read translated chinkshit and koreanshit on sites like webnovel/wuxiaworld or on pirate sites like novelbin or wtr-laball the deranged brainfuck murderhobo comments/reviews you see are ESL SEAmonkeys
>>24814195>>24814208My character's going to use magical arrows eventually anyway. Arrow doesn't have to go through the breastplate when it explodes, I think. But he isn't going to be a twink either.
>>24814337Yes
>>24814337>Maids>Become sluts for the butler instead of the his master
Am I missing something or is there not a webnovel subreddit that's actually good for finding stuff to read?
>>24814316It's just cope that there's an actual paying audience from people outside of the industry. Yes, people want to read and are willing to pay for it.
>>24814345Instead of his master*
New here, because I gave up on making games.What's the dificulty of the level of the competition for making a patreon?
>>24813741A Mary Sue academy where it's full of female YA protagonists trying to learn to be protagonists
>>24814386Just get lucky and you're golden, 10k a month guaranteed
>>24814386Very difficult. Make sure to join the royal road discords so you can network
>>24814316>Only people who pay on patreon read wnsSay that to all the sites that filter advance chapters the second they got posted
>>24814397I might write a short of this.
>>24814432Just being a good writer with an interesting premise on a popular genre isn't enough, you also need word of mouth (adds and shout outs) to be noticedAnd even then it might not workAnd if it does work, maybe the momentum isn't enough to get many followersAnd even if you do get many followers, its up in the air if they would be willing to spend money on you over other writers or things they might be interested onSo yeah, get lucky
>>248144321. You need to actually write well2. You need to write to an audience3. You need bare minimum twenty chapters before starting (chapters are 1,500 to 2000 words long on average.)3. You need an eye catching cover, good tags, good blurb.4. You need a hook in your first chapter.5. You need a proper launch, twenty thousand words out of the gate so you can get onto rs, or at least attempt too.6. You need to shell out fifty dollars for an ad, design the ad and also network with other authors for about outs.
>>24814240>Latinx have made hundreds of drawings and edits of Goku and Mexico>Post AI slop instead
can you add custom CSS to your chapters?I want to make it so it looks like a magazine page, instead of a blogpost.
>>24814386Writing a story is way easier than making a video game. You don't need to know half a dozen different professions to write a story. The downside is that you can't just write any story and find some success. The barrier for a story to become popular enough for Patreon is much higher. Almost anyone can write a story, but few people can make a video game. In my opinion the most important aspects of writing a story and getting it popular enough for Patreon are:1. Interesting premise. It has to be interesting enough that people want to read it. Wish-fulfillment works great, but it has to also be novel enough that people are interested. You should also try to make sure it's not "too trashy" - smut can create an interesting premise and make people interested to read, but they are less likely to recommend it to others.2. Strong opening. Your story needs a book that draws in readers and keeps them engaged. This is a point that almost all unsuccessful indie games fail at. Most web novels and traditionally published novels fail at this too. Read a bunch of novels and try to analyze the opening of the stories you liked the most. Also, your opening should be like the rest of your story. If it isn't then it might turn off people who would've liked your story and leave purple disappointed that wanted more of your opening. 3. Decent enough writing. Prose is pretty difficult to get right, but it doesn't have to be impressive. It just needs to be good enough to get out of your way. 4. Editing. This is probably the most crucial thing to do. If you want to publish something you need to write it, then let it sit for a while (days) and edit it after that. It's important to get "fresh eyes" to edit your story because you will gloss over details since you came up with it. If you want to read a very successful story that's relatively new go read Max Level Archmage. You shouldn't copy the premise since everyone is doing that right now, but it should give you an idea of what kind of quality level you need to aim for. Find tropes and niches you like. Try to find out if there are other people that like them too. If there are then put them in the story. An interesting story needs to have bits that make it exciting, even if they can be objectionable to some.
>>24814462>2. Strong opening. Your story needs a book that draws in readers and keeps them engaged. I meant hook. Your story needs a hook that draws in readers.
>>24814440I wonder if people see lists like these and actually think it's too hard for getting to have one of the easiest and most rewarding jobs in the world
>>24814440>5. You need a proper launch, twenty thousand words out of the gate so you can get onto rs, or at least attempt too.This isn't actually a hard requirement, to be clear. As long as you write steadily, it might be more beneficial to do an accelerated release schedule instead of dumping right away.
>>24814496Only if you get lucky thougheverbeit
>>24814203hema has nothing to do with this
>>24814496Surprisingly yes, I've seen people refuse to do web novels and instead bet it all on trad publishers (their book is never going to get published. Not even their fault though).
>>24814499Nah, it's just a balance between skill and luck. The more you have of one the less you need of the other. To the point you can very consistently succeed if you know what you're doing on both the marketing and writing sides.
>>24814440>(chapters are 1,500 to 2000 words long on average.)why does this thread keep repeating this?chapters are 2000-2500 words on average
>>248145311500 is a good length1000 is the practical minimum that readers won't complain about
>>24814533if you average 1500 you're in the bottom 1% of successful royalroad stories1000 word averages are nearly nonexistent and will have tons of complaints (or more realistically will just bounce readers away)the average is around 2300. we've been over this before.
>>24814533>1000 is the practical minimum that readers won't complain aboutI average around 2000 and get complaints for short chapters, personally
When providing advice there should be a distinction made between prescriptive and descriptive word counts. It should also be stated for whom this advice is applicable to. Also it ought to be noted that these are aggregate numbers rather than individual. Furthermore, there isn't any meaningful correlation between chapter word count and most other metrics. Unfortunately, many anons are more concerned with their feelings and being seen as an authority than they are with providing sound advice based on empirical data.
>>24814552tard, if 1 in 100 stories have less than 1500 average word count, there is obviously something to learn
>>24814531>why does this thread keep repeating this?Good point. I heard that specifically from this thread, but it might just be bullshit. Haven't seen anyone from the actual site mention it.
>>24814560There's a large variance but 1500 is extremely low, 2-4k is what makes up the vast majority of successful storiesi'm pretty sure its 1 single tard pushing the idea you can write 1000 word chapters for god knows what reason
>>24814561I'll keep that in mind for my next fic, lmfao. Well you live and you learn.
2500 words, shrimple as
>>24814363There are ones for the different genres like progression, cultivation, litrpg etc. I don't know of any that talk about all of them.
The more nuanced advice is that it depends on what type of story you're writing and how many times a week you're releasing.But even 5-7x no-effort litrpg grindfest releasers don't post 1000 word chapters.
>>24812751>Running your story like the business it is:>www.royalroad.com/forums/thread/116847Am I crazy or is most of this not just pretty bad advice/not applicable to most of the hits over the past 2-3 years?
>>24814584most of it is good though some is outdated. what part are you talking about
>>24814585all of the stuff about release rate just seems wrong. Like Super Supportive's massive and was never doing 5-7 chapters a week. They seem to confuse what's worked for previous stories with what readers want i.e. thinking that one path is the only path.Same stuff comes up in the stubbing section, lost of feeling based stuff defending what they've done when the opposite approach has basically the same results among hits.
>>24814592I think it's a given that other stuff CAN work, and pointing out exceptions isn't really proving him wrong. Almost everything he says is correct when viewed through the lens of general trends. Obviously weird freaks of nature like super supportive and MLA exist. But what are MOST stories doing?What does he say that contradicts the average path to success?
>>24814596This is just pablum though, there's no demonstrable majority that backs up the approach in the post. The top stories are very evenly split between the different approaches, there's no clear majority of successes using the spam it out then stub it approach suggested there.
>>24814592Super Supportive took off by being actually good and planned out which is unthinkable to 90% of RR authors lol
>>24814604Hm. You're half correct. Among the VERY top successes, I can't argue. However, there's a very, very wide midlist of authors that has found consistent regular success with the methodology described in that post.
The talk about having a backlog to post makes me think, why did the westoid mind become allergic to true serial fiction where everything was questionable quality and full of plotholes? Why do the japs still get away with it in manga? Did all the people who read and write that way just move onto fanfiction?
>>24814613>Why do the japs still get away with it in manga?i think you don't actually understand the eastern market.
>>24814613You don't actually read anything eastern.
What's the level or intelligence I should aim for?Faulkner style or fanfiction anime style?
>>24814629You cant do either so whatever brings you happiness
>>24814630>HUH DUH RETHORIC IS SO DIFICULT AND HARDCORE AND DESCRIBING STUFF AND EMOTIONS AND SHIT IS SO DIFICULT NIGGA
>>24814633>t. 16 followers
>>24814634>ad populum shit nigga
>>24814606>Super supportive>Good lol, lmao
>>24814606It also released two years ago when the market wasn't as competitive
>>24814639whines about how easy popular prose is, yet can't get readers lol
>>24814613>Why do the japs still get away with it in manga?The japanese have this thing called wabi sabi and HOLY SHIT, I HATE THE JAPANESEFUCK YOU! MAKE YOUR ENDINGS GOOD ONCE IN A WHILE YOU FUCKING KEKS!I JUST FUCKING KNOW THE ENDING OF ONE PIECE IS GOING TO THE STINKIEST PILE OF SHIT IMAGINABLE!
>>24814643Get realIt was just as chock full of hacks than now, we might be a bit better now since that was almost post pandemic
>>24814643two years really is not that long. the meta hasn't changed much. trends do change but not that fast lol
>>24814446just remember most of your slop readers are on m*bile so don't do anything too fancy with the formatting
>>24814648Except web novels are increasingly becoming main stream now, market is a lot more crowded now.
>>24814646One Piece is a horrible example. You could combine 100 of the greatest creative minds in existence and they could not come up with an ending to fulfill the hype generated by The One Piece.
>>24814654Web novels aren't even slightly mainstream, the biggest fucking web novel site still doesn't have a wikipedia page. It's fine to be in a bubble but at least recognize it. We've gone from turbo niche to slightly niche. We aren't 1% of the way to mainstream
>>24814644how hard is to write the self insert of the heroe finds in a new world with a harem of wifis wifus, that are 10/10 totally not generic archetypes of deres that aren't copypaste of azuka, rei, misato, oreimo and bulma and then have an MMO party where they have sex after defeating the final boss?
>>24814660Very hard. Go do it and watch yourself get 15 readers lmfao. You fags are so dismissive but I absolutely 100% guarantee you couldn't do it
>>24814658>Web novels aren't even slightly mainstreamNot yet but denying that we're heading in that trajectory is foolish. You can already see it in his much more crowded the market is compared to a couple of years ago.
Primal Hunter author Zogarth has a meltdown telling his patreon readers to fuck off because they're annoying, and that they don't matter, because his 75k/month patreon (#1 serial patreon) is irrelevant to his Amazon earningsWeb serials are super niche
>>24814669The market is more crowded in the sense 10 people filling up the town square is more than 3. It's not remotely crowded.
>>24814670>75k/month patreon>irrelevant to his Amazon earningsUhh, how much ARE they earning with Amazon?
>>24814673Even in the example you gave that's three times as much on the scene as there was, for fucks lol. You don't think that's not something to even bring up, at all?
>>24814675Enough they sperged out and literally told their patreon to fuck off and they don't care
>>24814676Yes, because you're implying the market is crowded, and it isn't. Neither 3 people nor 10 people in the town square is a crowded town square. Fucking HORRIBLE SHIT authors are making 100k a month on this site.Do you want me to say, boo hoo, literal 1st time author amateurs can no longer make 1% worldwide wages? Fuck off man. This is still the early era of the gold rush.
>>24814682>you're implying the market is crowdedIt very increasingly is. There's a reason why the /wng/ authors list actually bothers to show how long a story has been writing. The earlier you start off, the better you are, relatively speaking. Most anons here absolutely shit their pants looking at serials that started four or two years ago, unsure why their stories aren't taking off immediately like they did. Jesus fucking Christ.
>>24814686>it increasingly isis not the same as>it is>The earlier you start off, the better you are, relatively speaking.yes, and?>Most anons here absolutely shit their pants looking at serials that started four or two years ago, unsure why their stories aren't taking off immediately like they didMost anons here can't write 3 sentences without a severe grammar or flow fuckup
ok, let's say I write my novel.How do I get people to like make a comic or a fangame of it?
>>24814691>yes, and?That is my entire point, my God.
>>24814694pay them
>>24814699your point is a nothingburger
I don't have the time or interest to go in-depth tonight.This is the word count divided by chapter count, which provides an average that may or not be representative of their individual length.https://www.royalroad.com/fictions/search?globalFilters=truePale Lights: 7,922Mother of Learning: 7,349Magical Girl Mechanical Heart: 6,648Magical Girl Gunslinger: 6,628Sublight Drive: 5,569A Journey of Black and Red: 5,276Super Supportive: 4,904Super Minion: 4,671Phantom Star: 4,229The Last Orellen: 3,927Ghost in the City: 3,581The Perfect Run: 3,567This Magical Girl is Mine: 2,793The Legend of William Oh: 2,708The Game at Carousel: 2,698New Life As A Max Level Archmage: 2,503Beware Of Chicken: 2,371The Butcher of Gadobhra: 2,317Sky Pride: 2,245The Unexpected Engagement of the Marvelous Mr. Penn: 2,026https://graphtreon.com/top-patreon-creators/writingThe Wandering Inn: 15,539 (highest: 56,861, median: 12,861)https://wanderinginn.neocities.org/statistics (includes everything here, because effort) Pale Lights: 7,922Super Supportive: 4,904Wearing Power Armor to a Magic School: 4,825A Practical Guide to Evil: 4,759Ghost in the City: 3,581Defiance of the Fall: 2,872Primal Hunter: 2,830The Legend of William Oh: 2,708New Life As A Max Level Archmage: 2,503Path of Dragons: 2,323Syl: 2,321He Who Fights With Monsters: 2,292Runeblade: 2,277Sky Pride: 2,245Path to Transcendence:Bookboound Bunny: 2,218Return of the Runebound Professor: 2,137System Change: 2,133Death: Genesis: 2,108Nightmare Realm Summoner: 1,999Rise of the Living Forge: 1,945Fish Girl Evolution: 1,768Chrysalis: 1,203BonusSummoned! To an RPG world: 400, 1,055 Followers My Dungeon Life: Rise of the Slave Harem: 676, 1,766 Chapters Followers: 2,715The Legion of Nothing: 949, 1,759 chapters 1,099 Followers >>24814440>>24814531>>24814533>>24814536>>24814555>>24814561>>24814567>>24814569
>>24814646>>24814655Do people even care that much about One Pieces ending? Like, the only thing that's truly unknown at this point is "Luffy's dream", but it's already known that it's not related to something lofty like overthrowing the world government.
>>24814694commission, i got a quote of $1.5k per chapter but if you're willing to sacrifice quality you can go for less
>>24814704You are an actual fucking retard if you don't think it matters.
>>24814711>anons are no longer playing on turbo easy mode and instead easy modecool, thanks for the insight. matters so much
>>24814714Anons are not even playing on easy mode considering it is nigh impossible to get organic growth. You absolute fucking retard.
>>24814717rr is 10000% easy mode compared to any other vector of earning a living as a writer. you are so clueless
>>24814721ntaFor creative writing, maybe. For technical writing, not in the slightest.
>>24814726I don't know much about the slavewriter path but you're probably correct.
>>24814707>but it's already known that it's not related to something lofty like overthrowing the world government.Here's my ending, some plot device hinted from the very beginning makes it so everyone in the world gets devil fruit powers and the world goes nuts, the government overthrowing part happens almost by happenstanceEveryone is "free" for a long time until a new government (oppressive or otherwise) imposes order and the cycle begins again
What does any of this have to do with the very special girl who does special things?
Boo fucking hoo my 5th grade schizo rambling can't make $3000 a month. Why is life so unfair? Royalroad is a shit platform
>>24814721>10000% easy modeOh my God LMFAO, I know that trad pub is dead and RR is an actual viable path. But blatantly denying that we've left behind the days where you could actually build yourself up without shouts and an ad is insane.Like, sorry to get mad at you, but plenty of anons here as is get the wrong impression based off what someone did four years ago.
>>24814741>we've left behind the days where you could actually build yourself up without shouts and an ad is insane.yeah this was totally the thesis point you started at. definitely not shifting goal posts lmfao(laughing my fucking ass off)
>>24814739Well you can always do Amazon and hope you get lucky
>>24814743>yeah this was totally the thesis pointWhat point did you think I was making when I brought up the market was less crowded in regards to super supportive. Hit me with your best interpretation.
>>24814658>the biggest fucking web novel site still doesn't have a wikipedia paghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8Dsetsuka_ni_Nar%C5%8D
>>24814747you do realize Archmage would have 1000% made rising stars and blown up even without an ad, right? nothing has change in regards to the 2yo phenomenon of SS
>>24814754And immediately pivoted because you're a retard who didn't get the point.Even archmage had to buy an ad in order for word of mouth to start spreading, this is not downplaying it's monumental success. It's a requirement now for getting the ball rolling.
you should outline your entire story, start to finish, before you release your first chapter
>>24814757your """point""" is that the freaks of nature successes have changed in 2 years, when it hasn't, because archmage could have done the same. the author just wasn't retarded
>>24814608Define "midlist" and "success".
>>24814760>>24814757i really do try to help this thread on occasion but every time i do im left with the very strong impression that you guys aren't even smart enough to breathe unassisted.
>>24814555>if 1 in 100 stories have less than 1500 average word countThat's entirely wrong though. Ongoing Originals Words Per Chapter # %0 50 0.80%1-100 10 0.20%101-500 189 3%501-1000 701 11%1001-2000 2371 38%2001-3000 1714 27%3001-4000 696 11%4001-5000 265 4%5001-10000 273 4%10000-20000 27 0.40%20001-50000 3 0.05%50000-100000 2 0.03%100000-250000 1 0.02%https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DPgMjpTRhbfiJ9vXOBV_Sowe-wgLMbZOeHfuoKl6iqI/If you need more or different evidence, let me know.
>>24814766WOW I FOR SURE MEANT THE USERBASE AS A WHOLE AND NOT THE SUCCESSFUL STORIESholy fuck im logging off
>>24814759>>24814764Fuck off. Seriously, then. If you can't even cough up that you didn't understand basic sentences, then you're a vegetable, intellectually
I forgot to post my prose.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8ySexnqxsgpls rate.
>>24814764Is it their fault you get baited every time?
>>24814767I did that here: >>24814705The basics of it anyway.
>>24814774Yes, but also no, because these are clearly earnest posters that are regulars of this thread. They aren't trolls, at least not intentionally. These are people who you rub shoulders with(I lied about logging off kek, but I really should)I really do want to help anons with their writing careers but you guys are so fucking stupid it hurts. Somehow you perform worse than royalroad forum tards and discord tards. Fuck
>>24814758That's a good way to convince yourself that the story is shit and not worth writing, then giving up.
>>24814782I've given up on trying to help others with advice and critique.
>>24814799If you don’t do that, then it will be shit.
I've added words per chapter to the /wng/ spreadsheet for the stubbed and ongoing. Cherno Caster has 478 pages/131,450 words on Royal Road in 115 chapters, for an average of 1,143 words per chapter. Maybe there's something that explains that though.
>>24814809Primal Hunter, the #1 web serial, says he intends for it to go on forever and has no planned endingWhere does that fit into your worldview?
>>24814813>Cherno Caster, the biggest success story of /wng/, averages 1143 wordsOh yeah by the way Cherno Caster was a massive commercial flop, with a 230$ patreon and 159 ratings first bookNo shade against Akaso but even he knows he doesn't perform.
>>24814817What's your minimum for success?
>>24814821Me personally? Kinda complicated, because Amazon counts too, for anyone who isn't a total newb you integrate the amazon sphereI guess oversimplified:5k followers2k usd patreon1000 first-book ratings AmazonThose are general midlist markers, though I could see myself revising, just throwing them out there.
>>24814817Also, not the biggest success story, that's FortySixtyFour
>>2481482764 has not posted once in /wng/, and I said /wng/ successonce upon a time he performed better than me but I'm definitely a bigger sloplord than him these days
Make a tier list of /wng/ authors
>>24814670Is true zogfag is an ESL?>>24814675>They Is very obviously a dude
>>24814829So you're saying this is you?https://warosu.org/lit/thread/24797741#p24799328Either way, 2k usd patreon is probably in the top 100-200 on here, though obviously can't tell. https://graphtreon.com/top-patreon-earners/writingIf you're definition of success is the top few percent, then that seem a bit exclusive, but alright. Congrats on being one of the very top earners I guess.
>>24814835>Is true zogfag is an ESL?yes>>24814835>Is very obviously a dudejust a habit of mine. im sadly default pozzed after dealing with the business side of writing.
>>24814837yes that was metop few percent of a super niche amateur hobby space is not impressive. you literally just have to take this seriously for 6-12 months. it's really, really, really, really not that hardor maybe I'm a super talented genius? I honestly don't think so. It feels like you guys shoot yourself in the foot 24/7
>>24814760Define "define"
>>24814842What percent do you think take it seriously for 6-12 months? What does "take it seriously" mean"? Follow the guide in the OP for 6-12 months?
>>24814845Define: to provide an explanation using specific language and/or objective metrics in order to establish a semantic consensus.
>>24814817How much money did he wasted in commissions and ads?
>>24814846I think if you seriously try to1. Learn writing fundamentals2. Learn marketing fundamentals3. Have been a reader for a while (obviously you can't just randomly start out)For like 3-6 hours a day for a year, you can for sure make low-tier earnings (500-2000$ with patreon/amazon)>>24814849idk how he's had front page exposure for so long and still done so bad. I haven't read his shit but I kinda want to just to find outHe does write pretty unappealing stuff premise wise, so I can't say I'm too surprised.Not sure if he's wasted much of his personal money, he just signed over rights to moonquill. I don't have anything against Akaso he seems pretty chill, but using him as a success case example is patently absurd, so I had to call it out
>>24814833I'm at the top and you're all suspended near the bottom.
>>24814846>What percent do you think take it seriously for 6-12 months?To answer the question literally I think less than 1% of RR writers full-focus on making it a career. Most do it for fun, which is fine, or just disregard the market and write what they want, which is also fine. But very few people seriously try to learn what it takes to be a career author
>>24814855I still think you greatly overestimate, but ok. I didn't claim that Akaso was a success case. I thought it was amusing that >Cherno Caster, the biggest success story of /wng/, averages 1143 wordsand had that as the average word count, so I mentioned it.Everyone, including you, knows that you can't be taken seriously without proof, but that isn't going to happen under any circumstance, public or private, so I'll end it here.
>>24814842Did you had to suck dicks for shout outs and networking?
>>24814817One other thing, shouldn't you be calling yourself the biggest success story, at least as far as you know? We'll say you meant publicly proven success.
>>24814863>Everyone, including you, knows that you can't be taken seriously without proof, but that isn't going to happen under any circumstance, public or private, so I'll end it here.i dont really care much about using my credentials as a "gotcha". when I say something I want it to be supported by evidence. For example, the starting point of this recurring shitflinging, the average word count: I've gone through the Popular This Week list and proved that stories average 2000-2500 words and 1500 (Stray Cat Strut) was an unusual outlier. There were no 1000 word stories.Part of the reason I'm so annoyed is that I'm pretty sure I just have to repeat these arguments with newfags that feed on misinformationslop. If there's any single piece of advice I can give, it's to not listen to the retards on any public forum. Find successful authors or derive your insights from public data like what's performing on royalroad. People in public spaces are mouthbreathing retards>>24814869no, you are apparently a newfag, because I've been around since way before /wng/ was conceived (I made /wng/ btw) and I've always said that networking is gay and I refuse to engage with that>>24814875yes, i obviously meant public. like you pointed out unless you associate your penname, it can always be assumed larping.
>>24814877Now I know you're larping I was the one who created /wng/
>>24814879You weren't.
>>24814879Just to clarify, that's a different anon.
Mr Bigshot here ALWAYS says he's the most successful slopper, yet has never mentioned what his story is called or his pen name, CURIOUS!
>>24814815The more i hear about this author the more unhinged he seems
>>24814835>Is very obviously a dudeI meant authors in general
>>24814888I think any successful author is unhinged. Art in general requires you to have a mental illness or twoWhich is why it's surprising 4chan has no success cases. Seems like a breeding ground, but apparently not
>>24814709yeah, if anything when you write a fiction (and it doesn't matter if it's some bullshit you knock out in a morning) you have to tell artists to piss off and leave you alone.Fanfiction.net is infested with greedy "artists" who spam authors for commissions. And you just know they're going to feed your story into AI these days.
>I've gone through the Popular This Week list and proved that stories average 2000-2500 words and 1500 (Stray Cat Strut) was an unusual outlier. https://www.royalroad.com/fictions/weekly-popularThe first page, so 20 of themAverage: 2,360Median: 2,195 Percent that are 2000-2500: 5/20 (25%) 1,505 1,611 1,668 1,690 1,898 1,934 1,947 2,018 2,137 2,144 2,245 2,277 2,503 2,654 2,687 2,708 2,873 2,892 2,911 4,904
>>24814815Novels are just collections of smaller stories. I believe it’s best to work outside in, creating the broad strokes of the story first, then the arcs, then the mini arcs, so on and so forth. It’s very difficult to just write things in the order they come up in the story and end up with a decent end product. In the case of a story without a definitive end, you don’t really have an overarching story. Maybe a theme, or general direction at most. What you do is move down a level and outline your arcs.But there’s a massive issue with doing this. Most of the time these stories aren’t actually episodic, and they do have an overarching story. It’s just not planned or coherent. And since you aren’t immortal, the story WILL end some day. So you’re stuck with a catch-22.You can abruptly cut it off at some point, bullshit an ending on the spot, build up to it after a few arcs, or try to retroactively construct some narrative out of the random pieces you’ve created.Obviously, none of these are good options. You’d be much better off if you just planned the damn ending in the first place. It’s not like it hinders you in any way. Worst case scenario you’re back where you started.
>>24814895is that 1505 SCS?It seems to have dipped a bit from what I remember but an average/median of 2300 and 2200 respectively is what I've been saying.1500 CAN work but you're in the bottom percent if you do so--I think you're actively making it harder for yourself at that size of avg length1000 literally does not exist like that one anon was saying.
>>24814892f gardner is already forgotten...
>>24814902even Akaso mogs f gardner on sales lmao don't kid yourself
>>24814901Yes, that's the 1505. >average/median of 2300 and 2200 respectively is what I've been saying.I know, and that's an aggregate. An individual story isn't an aggregate. I can't be bothered to do more pages.
>>24814901>>24814908Fortunately I don't have to because I can just eye them and then do a few.Page 2: Reborn With a Magic System, 1,359 Cultivation System: Elder Edition 1,254 Blacksmith of the Apocalypse 1,481
>>24814897I would plan the ending of book 1 or a series of however many books/volumes you were planning to write anyway and if it get's traction continue from there.
>>24814922Still not 1000 word averagesAnd I'll admit that I focus more on actual successes, not fucking no-name stories like whatever the fuck those are. Without even checking, I bet those are just Rising Stars stories that are creeping onto PTW. Like I'm terminally connected to the web serial scene, and what the hell are those stories? Haven't heard them mentioned onceIf you wanna be autistic about this, go run an analysis on the top 50 follower stories. That's a better source to mine for insight for what 'works' in the serial scene.Or if you really want to put your autism to work, compile a list of highest-earning stories both Amazon+Patreon mergedI really hate giving like 500 clarifiers with each of my posts, but responses like this make it clear you don't understand this scene
>>24814922Last one, previously mentioned My Dungeon Life: Rise of the Slave Harem, with 676 is on page 6. https://www.royalroad.com/fictions/weekly-popular?page=6I don't know if that counts, and I don't really care, but it's there.
>>24814924seething
>>24814926im seething about how retarded this thread is, yes. i've freely admitted to that like 6 times lol
>>24814924Feel free to No True Scotsman all you want, I'm just doing this to have fun. The result is irrelevant to me.>top 50 follower stories. Here's from the Feb 19th database because it's way too late for me to do it for the current ones. 1,2031,5041,8981,9361,9431,9531,9622,0262,1322,2552,2582,3032,3242,3322,4252,4292,4942,5342,5712,5912,6062,7662,8122,8482,8933,1153,1413,3313,5613,5673,7973,8703,9274,3594,4074,5814,6714,7994,9214,9255,1235,2765,8176,1556,3547,0367,0407,3978,82110,826>highest-earning stories both Amazon+Patreon mergedI can't see Amazon earnings obviously. I already did patreon by itself for the shown ones.
>>24814934if you can't look at this and see that 1000 word chapters, or even 1500 word chapters, are inadvisable, you are beyond saving
>>24814939I never said they were or weren't. I'm saying that you give too much weight to 2,000-2,500.
>>24814942I said 2-4k range, with 2000-2500 average.
>>24814950Yes, I know, and I keep saying, that's silly because of aggregate vs individual. I'm saying you focus too much on the average versus the individual numbers of each story. I don't think that's as helpful as just providing a range. Better than that would be breaking it into segment, as I did with all ongoing originals. That can be adjusted for a smaller subset. Anyway, I'm going to sleep now.
>>24814877What about chapter release schedule? You recommend the OP advise or something else?
>>24814932you're seething because you're retarded and can't cope with reality
i started with 4.5k words per chapter but dropped it to 4k, then 3.5k, then 3k.
>>24814496>one of the easiest and most rewarding jobs in the worldthere are so many easier jobs than actually creating thingshell like half of the american middle class just sends emails all day and creates 0 value for anyone
>>24815021You misunderstand. Maybe it's 60/100 hard but 100/100 on his personal reward scale, which is much better than 10/100 hard with 30/100 reward.
>>24815021>>24815037nta but in the before times I used to have a job in a workshop getting to use things like laser engraving machines and making stuff to order after being trained on the job despite being a college drop out. Way more interesting than being an office drone and more rewarding than being a burger flipper or whatever.Yet I would still rather be a successful web novelist than go back to that. Liberation from 9-5 is something few will achieve.
Well, I'm out of the backlog. I managed to get one more chapter written tonight, but I'm worried about the quality dipping if I just grind them out too fast. I feel like my potential audience will be discerning enough to notice if the writing isn't at least at a semi-professional level.
>be me>post half-assed chapter to RR>thinking about dropping the story>gain +4 followers, +2 favorites and +2 5-star ratingsWe're back, baby
>>24815112jealous, good job.
>>24815112That's awesome! Just goes to show that you never know when success is just around the corner!
>>24814386just write a frieren knockoff and you'll get $24k a month easy. you'll have white knight faggots defending you as well because you're le heckin cool for making le heckin op elf woman
>>24815112I envy you.
>>24815112We're all gonna make it to Rising Stars, anon. We're all going to make it.
>>24815112EXPLODE.
there's a rating war going on in my storythey're trading 5 and 0.5 stars
>>24814327I supported an author on patreon (rr author) until his work from almost based turned into pozzed. I also did the same with translator group, I was supporting them until the (a chinese) novel turned to shit.
>>24814705what's the word count for Memories of the Fall, it should be pretty high up there
Novelpia bros...
>>24814440>You need to actually write wellclearly not necessary>You need to write to an audienceyou just repeated 1.>You need bare minimum twenty chapters before starting (chapters are 1,500 to 2000 words long on average.)you need to finish the fucking thing>You need an eye catching cover, good tags, good blurb.you need to go back to middle school>You need a hook in your first chapter.you shouldnt have to try>You need a proper launch, twenty thousand words out of the gate so you can get onto rs, or at least attempt too.you just repeated 3.>You need to shell out fifty dollars for an ad, design the ad and also network with other authors for about outsit cost way more than that
>>24815324>you just repeated 1.how is "write something that is a genre/gimmick people want to read" and "be good at writing" the same lmaoyou could write a novel a guy who learns korean basket weaving techniques, it could be the most well-written novel in history, and nobody is going to read it because nobody is looking for a novel about basket weaving.Didn't read the rest of what you typed since you don't know how words work.
>>24813741Military academy, Ethics Academy (political struggle - court politics), Monster hunting academy, Spaceship Naval Academy...
>>24813741chinese scholar academy
>>24815386If you want an accurate image of chinese history, picture a thousand Maos, sperging out about sparrows and melting pot metal, for all eternity
How do you publish a chink chonk japanese light novel about harem isekai pantsu penis in vaggoo action?
>>24815575>penis in vagooYou don't.
I'm looking for some autistically long web novel to read again, my experiences so far:>WormReally liked the overarching plot and pacing, had a weak arc or two but it was overall very engaging, characters were mostly decent but the MC's original crew felt like the author got bored and ditched their development at some point.>Mother of LearningExtremely interesting and well thought out in the first half, it's not terrible after the truth of the loop is found out but it gets way less interesting and devolves into fetch quests. Still some great moments and a good conclusion though.>Blood & FurAztec mythology and the setup set it apart, but the story gets kinda stale as it's going on, more of a guilty pleasure with the oyakodon scenes with MC's childhood friend and his mother in law.>The last OrellenWas really good while it lasted, hopefully don't have to wait a decade for it to continue.Not a web novel but I feel like it's very related>CradleI've read Will Wight's stuff even before Cradle, his pacing and action scenes are always superb, but his character writing is a bit lacking, though he got a bit better with it in Cradle, still the quality starts to vary a lot in the later books and the space meta plot is just not very interesting. I didn't feel strongly either way towards xianxia elements, it was a plus since it was novel to me but the flavor of the fantasy setting is always behind in relevance to plot, characters and pacing for me.>A practical guide to evilDropped it in the first few chapters when I had a massive case of deja vu of some dogshit tradpub fantasy book I started reading that also had giant masculine women everywhere and a premise of the main characters being a dangerous gang whose first act of displaying their moral greyness was to kill some rapists. I know there's something about cliches giving people power so maybe it will explain at some point how a 15 year old girl was making money beating up giant fully grown men other than "she's faster" (Name of the Wind also does this and is written by a self proclaimed "male femiiinist"), but unless it takes a severe turn I'm not touching this with a 50 foot pole.Not looking for anything with an amoral bugman MC or too much system autism either, mostly interested in engaging story/characters.
>>24813741Whatever-you-call-the-flying-gear-from-Youjo-Senki academy:When winged monsters attacked a high school sports game, a selfish and cowardly young antigravity-suit pilot was mistaken for a hero after unintentionally drawing the beasts away from the crowd. As a reward, he was offered a spot at the elite SkyKnight Academy, a prestigious institution where gifted young men and women train to pilot military-grade flight suits and battle monsters beyond the safety of the shield dome. If he could survive four years at the academy, his future in the capital would be secured. But when the monsters began launching coordinated assaults under the command of a mysterious, and seemingly intelligent leader, the reluctant pilot need to rise to the occasion and become a true hero to prevent humanity’s extinction.
>>24815575here's the secret. you promise penis in vagoo but only tease it touching but never really meeting and then you make money, if you tease it really really close, then you make even more money.
>>24815603What if I tease two penises or two vagoo touching?
>>24815582Reverend Insanity.
>>24815582Practical Guide to SorceryMemories of the FallWandering Inn
>>24815612>Practical Guide to Sorcerykinda shit>Memories of the Falllooks like shit>Wandering Innworse than shit
>>24815606it can backfire even if it's hot. if your audiences are vanilla, those two penises better come from one person only. if your audiences are depraved sons of bitches, then have at it in any flavor of fetish you've got brewing in your horny head.
>>24815612>Wondering InnSorry, no female MCs.
>>24815633Well you asked for autistically long web novel, there aren't too many of those. I wouldn't say PGTS even qualifies
>>24815582>Not looking for anything with an amoral bugman MC>>Worm>Really liked the overarching plot and pacing???? Anyway, Worm isn't the only thing Wildbow wrote, but I wouldn't recommend Ward. Read Pact.
>>24815651>Pactit's shit>Wardprobably also shit
>>24815643>Reads Worm>No female MCsWhat did he mean by this?
>>24815582>Overgeared>Top Tier Providence, Secretly Cultivate for a Thousand Years>>24815643>No female MCsyou read worm so here you go, a female mc for (you)>Nanomancer Reborn - I've Become A Snow Girl?
>>24815610Funny joke, though I might check it out at some point if only to see if it has parts as funny as the mcdonalds version, not what I'm looking for right now though.>>24815612I'll look at the blurbs, though wasn't the wandering in more of a collection of stories than one narrative? I've heard a lot of mixed things about that one, mostly negative about how it's horribly paced and drawn out.>>24815651Worm MC wasn't even close to amoral, edgy in some ways and methods sure, but at the end of the day she was trying to save the world, just gets pretty "ends justify the means" towards the end but the build up to that and the desperation of the situation make sense, she's definitely not just a murderhobo. I read some Pact actually, but the pacing and the story just die when they completely abandon everything that was going on at the moment and move to canada, don't know if it picks up again but most people also seemed to have similar thoughts. His current Pale series seemed better received I think? Don't know much about that one.>>24815689This is my first reply after the initial post, I don't mind female MCs unless they're just men with vaginas which A practical guide to evil gave me a strong vibe of.
>>24815694>Worm MC wasn't even close to amoralShe's not amoral, she's immoral. And not just towards the end, but throughout the entire story. You actually fucking fell for her unreliable narrator shtick, lmao
I've noticed you guys impose masses of rules on your writing. How will you ever write anything lasting if you're proudly bound to established patterns? You ought be restive, you ought to want to slip the catches of cliche and drive toward something dignified and new.
>>24815633alright fineElder Cultivator by halosty
>>24815732>You ought be restive, you ought to want to slip the catches of cliche and drive toward something dignified and new.Nah I just want it to be fun
I love this comment, Imma frame it.
>>24815734sounds kinda shit, but I'll read it
It takes me eight hours to write 1,000 words.
>>24815689>Top Tier Providence, Secretly Cultivate for a Thousand YearsThis is terrible. Didn't it get dropped by the translator because it was a such boring slog?
>>24815752He asked for long webnovels thoughbeit
Reverend Insanity mogs.
>>24815694>Funny joke, though I might check it out at some point if only to see if it has parts as funny as the mcdonalds version, not what I'm looking for right now though.If you are "mostly interested in engaging story/characters" then RI really is what you are looking for.
>>24815749Sorry but that is depressingly bad. You need to figure out some way to loosen the valves of your writing mind. Maybe meditation would suit you. Right now at that plodding rate you'll never make progress in a sphere that prizes quantity to all else. Even in traditional publishing spaces that's hardly a screaming fast pace. Stephen King clocks up double the words in the same period, and his writing, while not uniformly polished and by no means original, towers in popularity. His readership is the implicit brass ring after which all novelists strive.
Is 68 enough of a backlog to hit publish?
>>24815885one more
>>24815885one less
>>24815885>>248159086..............7?
>>24815915Welcome, Gen Alpha.
>>24815915>This makes zoomers shit their pants in fear
>the very youngest of millennials are almost 30
>>24815732They just want to make as much money as possible, simple as
>>24816024This is hardly the field to do that. Far from a get-rich-quick-scheme, web-novel writing will soon be outsourced to AI. Those that remain will be divided into two camps: the first enjoying an unremunerative hobby and the second aiming to convey a dignity to their work. If you're part of the second camp, and you want to hoist yourself above the wash of AI-content, you need a dazzling prose style and a head for tense situations. That takes hard effort.
>>24816081>web-novel writing will soon be outsourced to AI.I don't think that's true at all.
>>24816081if such serials aren't popular now, why would they suddenly become popular as AI grows? if anything that audience will be even more likely to ignore web fiction and only pursue highly-curated literary channels. your logic holds up nowhere
>>24816081You should try jacking off to an AI chatbot some time, they're absolutely horrible at holding details in their memory.Most you'll get is people using it to reword everything.
I'm gonna write 800k words before I publish the first chapter. Then I can publish 1 chapter per day for a year! If I write a chapter every 2 days then I can post them once a day for 2 years. I'll be the bestest writer ever.
>>24815582The Storm King. It's not a feMC so you might not like it, but it's a western web novel with 1200+ chapters. MC has actual growth in the series too.
>>24816087>>24816093AI is the despair of all artists, writers especially, so I expected pushback. I just didn't expect it to be so flimsy. The writing, so to say, is on the wall; our numbers are in. We can take a sliver of solace in the knowledge that we're merely one stage in AI's grand-scheme takeover of art. As the barrier to use collapses and AI rings to humanity's voice, sites like RR will groan under a flood of new stories. For every story you produce, be assured that mirroring tales will tessellate around it in endless array. We'll all attend as AI out-writes us to the tune of hundreds of millions of stories.
>>24816133Whenever I read AI writing, my eyes glaze over and I get so incredibly bored that I immediately do something else. If it can't hold my attention for longer than a few sentences, then it can't possibly hold a large audience's attention for an entire book. In the world of art, blandness is infinitely worse than even incompetence.
>>24816133The Ecstasy of Despair. Some pretend to hate the doom, while secretly wishing it was far worse and already here.
>>24816133i think you're a retarded doomer who isn't worth responding seriously to, personally
I was reading Journey of the Fate Destroying Emperor earlier this year.
I don't get why so many of these stories start with a pseudo-tutorial where it's just the protagonist fighting monsters for 10 chapters.Do people not get that there's nothing to draw you in if you introduce no other characters or no other details about the world.I'm not a very discerning reader but I think I'm finally at a point where I'll drop stories for doing this.
>>24816151Worse, he's a jeet paid pennies to try and demoralize people
best example of character development in webnovels?
>>24815582I'm an Infinite Regressor, But I've Got Stories to Tellit's the most unique eastern webnovels i've read recently. the TL site got wiped recently so i read it on one of those scraper ste (novelbin)
>>24816181Did the big titty catgirl died and became an angel?
>>24816170That's how video games usually begin. If the guiding influence of the stories is video games and anime, then the stories are going to adopt thematic elements of those media.
>>24814273Maybe 0.01% of site traffic results in money to authors.>>24814337You don't know what a doujin is.>>24814629Less than fanfiction anime>>24814879We all collectively brought /wng/ into being. There's no single founder. The first thread was posted by a collective all manually submitting it at the same time, hands overlapping.>>24814892Only a popular myth and nothing more >>24815739It's nice to have children who don't know any better appreciate what you've written.
>>24816133AI is not getting much better than the current iteration, unless some breakthrough comes: see the difference between GPT-2, GPT-3 and GPT-4: huge advancements with each step; and then compare it to GPT-4 to GPT-5. There's a limit to how much scaling LLMs gives better outputs, and we're pretty much at it. AI is not writing even half-decent novels anytime soon.
>>24816181what series? I've only read a couple of gook web novels
>>24816181Fuck, marry, kill in that order. Cat girl looks like shes already dead but I would have killed her too
>>24816192wow I like this, any other recommendation?
>>24816228>That's how video games usually beginGod I fucking wish
>>24816181
>>24816015Not almost, we already are. I just turned 30 last month.
>>24815578you can do it via kindle direct publishing. there's tons of litrpg harem slop
>>24816294The start year is usually listed as 1997.
>>24816276FY basically doesn't change at all from ch1 to ch2334. You just learn more about him.
What would the category above divine in "chink story but western" be called?
>>24816336silence, unc
>>24816346Hyperouranios.
>>24816346>>24816346You mean like a fantasy one? They might use something like "Primordials" above the gods.
>>24816258>>24816192dont read on that garbage site. here's the epub with all the translated chapters + premium chapter. it has better TL.https://files.catbox.moe/rscl0n.epub
>>24814892What do you mean? There are a number of celebrities confirmed to be 4chan users, and the best are all confirmed old /b/tards.Taylor Sw*ftTrevor M*oreZack H*yt
>>24815643>no amoral bugmen>but also no womenbut only females have true morals. males just fake it to get a mate.
>>24816252https://novelbin.me/novel-book/omniscient-first-persons-viewpoint
>>24816228>That's how video games usually begin. If the guiding influence of the stories is video games and anime, then the stories are going to adopt thematic elements of those media.>thematic elementsThat's a structural element, not a thematic element.Progression is a thematic element shared between video games and litRPG.Starting with a tutorial sequence is a structural element shared between video games and litRPGs, for the purpose of explaining mechanics (of the gameplay and the setting, respectively).
>>24816426Any litRPG with a tutorial is written by a hack. The only advantage of litRPG is that you don't need to explain how anything works.
>>24814892People hold an unhealthy attachment to this site which saps them for anything else. They are classic studies in the basement-dwelling no-hoper. Witness all the dumbbells in here. They spend hours circulating the same few questions not in a bid to become better writers, but to avoid facing their real-world selves.
>>24816426>That's a structural element, not a thematic elementpotayto potahto.
>>24816435I've avoided facing the real world since before 4chan was founded.
>>24816390Man that site is fucking up my web2epub badly.
>>24816437If you honestly think structure and themes are the same thing you're not even a good reader, let alone a good writer.>>24816435Nah I'm trying to get better.I started by story writing 1000 word chapters and only in the last few months hit my stride to the point I could write 2.5k words/day. And readers much prefer the longer chapters.Sure there are other people who also refuse to post their work here, but some of us really are trying to improve our craft. I'm going to wrap up this year having written and hopefully (self)published five volumes. At the very least it will be four, each better than the last.
I can't think of a way to hook the readers from the start. It's a relatively typical isekai start - a bunch of people are summoned to another world to "protect against a great evil."The problem I have is that I can't come up with a good reason why the summoned people should go around adventuring and leveling up. It's also hard to introduce the ultimate villain, because everything else will seem like a side quest then.
>>24816491>I can't come up with a good reason why the summoned people should go around adventuring and leveling up.Because they need to get stronger to protect against that great evil. Who summoned them in the first place?
>>24816491I wouldn't even write that kind of story unless you do what the easterners do these days and turn it into a revenge story where the MC got a seemingly weak power and the other summoned people reject them for being weak or betray them for a minor gain.
>>24816505>Who summoned them in the first place?The (local) kingdom.I want the church to summon the bad guy in error. That's the evil the heroes are supposed to beat. So in a sense the ultimate villain doesn't even exist at the start of the story. I'm thinking that maybe there's a prophecy of some ancient evil awakening/appearing/being summoned. The kingdom decides to try every option, but it turns out that one of those options is what dooms them. The heroes are there to save the day.>Because they need to get stronger to protect against that great evil.Yeah, but would the characters see it that way? Imagine if you were kidnapped by like South Korea and told to do basic training because they need you to fight the North Korea (and there's no way home until NK is beaten). You'd probably think you're dead either way, so why bother putting in the effort? Ultimately these aren't your problems, but somebody's trying to force them to be your problems.The more I think about it the more problems there are with this. All I wanted was to write an archer MC fighting monsters. Fuck.
>>24816528I love those stories, personally. Arifureta, Failure Frame, etc, I just eat em up.>>24816491You can bait and switch and end the first chapter on the summoning beginning after a chapter of daily drama and character introductions in the classroom.Basically a hook is just an outstanding problem that readers want to see resolved so they click "Next Chapter." If you don't want the overall premise to be the hook, you could have the MC's cat get summoned with them and it runs off, and shit now his cat is lost and he has to find her.>The problem I have is that I can't come up with a good reason why the summoned people should go around adventuring and leveling up.People do things to resolve a lack. So portray the lack. They need resources, power, strength, etc...If they're summoned, what exactly is the kingdom's plan? If the kingdom has resources and intelligence, they should have a plan in place to get the heroes leveled up at least somewhat.
>>24816547>Ultimately these aren't your problems, but somebody's trying to force them to be your problems.Man if they gave me a couple hot south korean girls I'd happily do basic training and fight the evil northern dictator. It's literally that easy.
>>24816547In the ones I've read they're promised a way home if they succeed and they're pretty happy with their new powers. It's not like they just give them a spear and tell them to stand in the front, they're heroes.
>>24816554>If they're summoned, what exactly is the kingdom's plan?That's a good fucking question. My thoughts were that there are a lot of summoned people, like thousands of them. And they just let them go into the monster-infested world. The better ones eventually rise to the top.The initial idea was that a new MMO launches and everyone that plays it gets isekai'd.>>24816572>It's not like they just give them a spear and tell them to stand in the front, they're heroes.Yeah.. About that.>>24816557That's true.>>24816528You might be right. I might need to go back to the drawing board.
>>24816586>My thoughts were that there are a lot of summoned people, like thousands of them. And they just let them go into the monster-infested world. The better ones eventually rise to the top.Okay, so make it a kingdom on the backfoot, overwhelmed by hordes of monsters, just outrageous numbers, who all the men died fighting and now the castles and redoubts are overflowing with women, so the kingdom uses magic to summon a bunch of men to fight for them, promising those who survive a wife (may or may not be used goods, sorry), and the strongest of the summoned survivors gets first choice.This has the bonus side effect of being horribly anti-feminist in a deniable way, so controversy may get you extra attention.
>>24816600>implyingthere wouldn't be war in a world where you can just summon infinite women to fuck
>>24816603The monsters want the infinite summoning thing that the humans have? Maybe it will let them invade other worlds, there's another motivation for the MC.
>>24816603Throughout most of history women were seen as a burden and only useful for producing children. If the isekai setting is anything close to historical IRL earth, NOBODY would bother summoning women.You can even look at it allegorically like immigration debates today: no country is making ANY attempt to import tons of women from anywhere. Almost all migrants are military aged young men, primarily to fill lower-class labor positions at wage rates the native population won't accept.Also hordes of monsters isn't a "war" it's an infestation that needs men to go clear it out. I don't know what you're even talking about.
>>24816600There was a besieged city in ancient China that absolutely had to be held to save the empire because of its strategic position. The male defenders ate all the women.
>>24816620I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have done that if there had been other sources of food and/or if they had had the ability to teleport in more fighters.I'm not Chinese, though, so I can't be sure.
>>24816586Perhaps you could go a darker route and have summonees be branded with magic that compels them to fight on their behalf subtly, in a way that makes them think it's their own idea. Maybe this isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened and this other world has isekai'd people throughout history. Maybe the MC's brand is faulty, and when expressing his concerns with others, they become hostile since they're under its effects.
>>24816628Well it was really about food sources since they were in a city with limited supply and all the farm land was outside where the enemy was.Teleporting in more mouths to feed doesn't seem like a good idea though.
The monster infestation gave me some interesting ideas to tie it together. I'm still not sure about a hook, but at least the pieces fit together in a more reasonable way. >Why would they go out and fight monsters to level? They can choose not to, but they have to figure out what to eat and where to live themselves. Good luck.>>24816616>The monsters want the infinite summoning thing that the humans have? Reminds me of Stargate Atlantis. The Wraith want to know where Earth is.>>24816629>Maybe this isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened and this other world has isekai'd people throughout history.That was part of the plan.
>>24816640Yeah see I'm imagining this more like the Ukr*ine-R*ssia war, where there's a semi-stable front line where the aggressors are endless and winning, and the defenders are on the backfoot, losing territory, and running out of fighters. Not an encirclement/siege of a single city.To get away from contemporary politics you could also write it like the emu war in Australia, where humanity is pushed to the coastal edges of the continent and the interior is completely uninhabitable and overflowing with monsters.
>>24816461>If you honestly blah blah blahBeing an abrasive cunt won't help you sell books.
>>24816658How on earth could I possibly say that in a less abrasive way?Confusing structure and theme is pathetically amateur.
Thread was going well until someone had a melty over the average word count of chapters
post reverend insanity
Is A Practical Guide to Sorcery the only big mage webnovel that deals with spells backfiring like you rolled a 1 in an rpg?
>write my MC losing a big fight>feel better the rest of the dayShit I'm actually a sadist.
>>24816846all writers are a bit sadistic or they'd just be writing waffy fanfics
>>24816846>>24816870I prefer to make my protags win most if not all fights but have them get beat all to shit or exhaustedfor me a satisfying fight scene is not about win or lose it's about the strugglei also enjoy occasionally writing a fight scene from the enemy's perspective and treating MC like a horror villain
>>24816707Because story events that establish the world can both rightly considered sturctural or thematic, depending on the context in which they are being discussed.
I told you to not post reverend dogshit u retard don't do that again
>>24816878>i also enjoy occasionally writing a fight scene from the enemy's perspective and treating MC like a horror villainI might do that too much, but it's too tempting to write from the perspective of the least impressive character in a fight. I feel like it gives the stronger character way more aura.It's also actually my second time writing this fight, so from both perspectives the other combatant came off like a monster and they both consider the encounter a loss. One becomes a hikikomori and the other trains even harder to become unbeatably strong lol.
>>24816846My character is a pampered prince and has lost every single fight he's come up against.>Bandits disarmed his fancy playfighting>A wizard threw him through a wall>Unspeakable bird-horror dragged him off a cliff>Bandits just came back and beat his ass againDude can't catch a break.
>>24816883How exactly is "tutorial section" a main topic, subject, or message within a narrative?I mean, it COULD be, in a story that revolved around continually expanding the scope of the setting and its mechanics with repeated tutorials, but there aren't even any video games where "tutorial" is a theme as far as I'm aware. Let alone literary texts.It's a structural element. Take the L.
>>24816896I forgot my image like a retard.
>>24816881>Wang Yawn
>>24816894How do your readers react to that?My readers were NOT pleased with 100 chapters of MC suffering.
>>24816900I haven't released yet. I assume people will be pissed but it's just the beginning of the story, he's learning.
>finally think I've come up with an original power system>...>realize I just copied something else againgod damnit
>>24816901Well, just to brace you for your fate, you aren't going to have readers. Hopefully your only goal is having fun with writing
My MC never loses a fight. At worst he runs away or loses some valuable resource or opportunity. When he does actually lose a fight, he will die. It's a doggy dog world out there.
>>24816902Literally no one cares. Rip off power systems all you want.>>24816903Nah I bet he gets at least a dozen readers. More if he buys a couple ads.
>>24816903They WILL read loser-kino that reminds them of themselves in a negative way.
>>24816881This reads more like a plot outline than an actual story
>>24816924>why aren't the thoughts of the character an action scene???this is an excerpt literally thousands of chapters in specifically curated by a bad faith shitposter to spoil the story
>>24816881Is the joke that this story gets a lot of cash or something? Why is it posted every single thread?
I made my stupid story way too convoluted, and I'm too stupid to write characters intelligent enough to make the conclusion satisfying. Sanderson was right, you really do need to write five failure novels before you even have a hope. Well, onto number two...
>>24816933The last three lines are not thoughts the third last line is literally even just a handwave of "he thought this because of X reason but I'm not going to tell you those X reasons lol)>His progress was not smooth>he did a bunch of stuff but it failedThis is a plot outline or an extremely abridged youtube lore dump about a side character in a video game
Has the royalroad meta turned against AI covers yet?Looking through and these books all look the same now
>>24816942No, we just had a story that was as stock as it comes, not even a title on the picture, and the guy had 5,000+ followers on RS. The cover was the most generic medieval soldier you can imagine. The story was also AI assisted.
>does the slop site reject slopwhat do you think
I'm just gonna write mercenary slop about a slop warrior who wins every battle (but somehow his side is losing the war) and every slop battle his slop skill increases +1. Eventually he usurps the king, progressing from slop soldier to slop emperor.
>>24816934I could explain but frankly "lurk more" is more appropriate. Perhaps even "lrn2google"
>>24816942NoIf you look at popular this week it seems like 5 out of the top 6 are non-ai but then you have to realize that most of these commissioned the non-ai covers after they already got successful.Everything after that is just endless ai covers.
>>24816935That 5-novels rule is for the very worst and most desperate; real writing titans can do it in one.
>>24816958Anon is talking about me btw, I'm that writing titan.
>>24816958This is me, I am that titan.
>>24816967>>24816971Same titan bros.My writathon novel is going to go so hard.
Making a RR account has been pretty funnyGetting all these boxes on every story saying I can't review until I've read it (not that I was gonna)Buddy you gotta think I'm stupid if you think I'm actually reading in a web browser.
>>24816846> MC has an incredibly shitty life> Every time something good happens, something bad rips it all away> At the last arc he finally gets a break from all the shit and lives happily for the first time in his life> Big bad comes back and kills all his friends> He's able to kill big bad but it costs him his own lifeI don't even care if no one's going to read this. I'm getting so much joy from writing it. I may need professional help.
>>24816940>he thought this because of X reasonBecause this is thousands of chapters in. Wills, emotions, wisdom path gu, dreams realms, killer moves, etc. show up over 1000 chapters before this point. They've all been explored in depth. It literally tells you that someone else tried doing it before. So, the main character puts 2 and 2 together, and recognizes that this method should be possible. This requires no explanation because it's fucking obvious if you've actually read the story up to this point.Do you think a one off line should re-explain all of the lore up to this point? To go in detail in every single event and tidbit that points to this being possible? Really?
>>24817006>letting them dieread some Robin Hobb and see how a real master does it
If you're short of ideas, a cheat is to take a popular anime/manga and rewrite it with a stronger emphasis on the female characters' tatas.
>>24817038RR is autistically against sex, romance, and adjacent topics in their stories
>>24817041Is it? I've been writing a tsundere. Uh oh.
I'm going to try doing something on Tapas. Maybe if it gets big enough, I'll even get a webtoon adaption.
>>24817047Anything works if you're good enough.
>>24816232>It's nice to have children who don't know any better appreciate what you've written.that dude literally read 25 chapters of the wheel and the FUCKIN wing. what kind of a kid does that lmao
>>24817011If I could, I would have done that. But the lives of protag and big bad are intertwined by a curse so that if big bad dies, protag must die. Also protag can't die until big bad dies (so can't suicide). That's part of the whole suffering thing. The fact that he's alive means that big bad is still out there killing people.
>>24816958>>24816984I'm just gonna write 6 different novels for the writathon. That way one of them is going to be good. It's only 9500 words per day.
>>24816951>>24816942I like AI covers. I've always thought that old book covers were really ugly and AI is a step up from that.
New bread?
Bakin'>>24817102
>>24817090Yeah, first it's the covers, then it's the inside print.
New bRed>>24817118>>24817118>>24817118
>>24817111I've read a few novels that were written by AI (directed by human though). They quickly become unreadable. If you only read a few paragraphs from an AI, you won't notice it, but with entire chapters your start seeing the same sentence constructions over and over again. That's fine if the sentences weren't often nonsensical or weird.AI loves to add "flare" to prose with phrases like "the room smelled like cleavage". It's trying to imply that there are a lot of scantily clad women in the room, while trying to engage other senses than just sight. The problem is that if you think of what "cleavage" smells like you'll probably think of sweat.
>>24816997I read in my web browser...
>>24816896>>24816897>wikipediaYeah, I no longer give a shit what you have to say.
>>24816491>I can't think of a way to hook the readers from the start.Do it with the synopsis and cover.
>>24815582I don't know man , your taste sucks. The slop you would like I wouldn't ever read.
