If the authors of the Bible were divinely inspired why didn't God tell them that the earth is a planet orbiting the sun or that the stars are really far away?
>>24820708Because they were not divinely inspired. They were a primitive (relative to us) group of people trying to make sense of the world with a very limited set of tools and processes, hence why they got their cosmology so wrong. The same may be said about parts of our cosmological models in time.
>>24820731Are scientists divinely inspired?
>>24820735They are not. But the Divine, if extant, may be scientifically inspired.
>>24820708>why didn't God tell them that the earth is a planet orbiting the sun or that the stars are really far away?Because you shouldn't have to have any scientific knowledge in order to understand the message contained in the Bible.If you have the eyes to read the Bible, then you'll be able to see the Firmament, but not of Pluto, for example.The Bible must be for everyone, from the dumbest of humans to the greatest of poets.The subtlety of the form must not impede the comprehension of the substance.
>>24820778Wrong pic>of PlutoPluto*
>>24820752That sounds like a reversal of ontology that is a product of Descartes and everything after.
>>24820731This. It's bizarre how people don't see this, we know a lot more about the universe nowadays but people still follow the Bible blindly. I wonder if someday in the future this shit is gonna disappear.
>this part of the bible is historical>this is metaphor>this definitely happened and doesn't contradict archaeology or even the bible itself at all>Jesus was definitely realyadda yadda, it's tiresome
It's the basic Near Eastern cosmological model used for a few thousand years before the Greeks began to argue the Earth was conical or spherical. Babylonian mythology, same as the Flood.
>>24820819How do you "know" that Jupiter exists? Have you ever seen Jupiter with your eyes? Mapped its trajectory with a telescope?Or do you simply believe the authorities that tell you that it exists? Because if it's the latter, you are no better than people back then
>>24820708>interpreting Genesis in the most literal way possible Kek, not even catholics do that.
Because they're not retard.
>>24821611>this description of the world that people believed for millennia?>nah man it's metaphorical
>>24820708>the earth is a planet orbiting the sunno, the earth is flat
>>24820708>DEUS VULT
>>24820708Because Bronze/Iron Age Jews were retarded subhumans that the Romans should have given the full Carthage treatment to.
>>24820708This is essentially just the Mesopotamian cosmological model. Not particularly unique to the Judean world. To play devil's advocate, if i were religious, i would not interpret divine inspiration as a 'everything any of the writers says must be undeniably right', but rather as something like, 'those writing are possessed by the holy spirit'. Flawed people gazing upon the overbright form of the Good, slowly evolving increasingly elaborate ethical-theological reflections out of what essentially used to be a cruel self-centered tribalism.
>>24820708>Be the Abrahamic god>be all powerful and present; beyond time and space, know the beginning and end of all being>be worshipped by primitive Canaanite barbarian tribes>demand that they gut and burn their children via human sacrifice>one tribe proclaims themselves your chosen people, always knew this was going to be proclaimed>demand that they halt the sacrifices, implying your demanded them in the first place knowing they were to be halted and logically unnecessary in the first place>all your subsequent followers behead each other over the “holy land” for the next 2000 years>bequeath hilariously retarded cosmology onto your chosen people that completely blasphemies your divine creation; retards into modern think planet is flat and space is fake and gayWow it’s almost like Jews and their other Canaanite cousins and the stupid spin-off religions were/are a bunch of demon worshippers who stuff words in Gods mouth and managed to keep their evil cult going despite everything.
>>24820708is heaven really a gold cube with two trees, a throne, and a river running through it
>>24820708Because God wants to remain hidden, if we had a magic book with perfect knowledge of the natural world it'd leave no room for doubt. If that were the case people would only care for him out of wanting to get rich off him instead of by love
>>24820731>>24820752o my fucking sciencerino
>>24821225It's especially tiresome with Genesis which apparently changes genre multiple times with no warning
>>24821790This argument is such nonsense. Didn't Satan know all about God and reject him anyway?Didn't Adam and Eve personally know God and still eat the apple?Didn't Cain try to lie to God to his face?It's apparently very plausible to have certain knowledge and still reject. Per the text.
>>24821620This, we are all le meaningless stew of chemicals and if you disagree with me you are wrong because my God Dawkins, Einstein, and Stephen Hawking said so.
>>24821812>meaning is imposed from without
>>24821805Satan's circumstances are unknownThe garden family were operating by faith, they didn't have many reasons to trust God. Notice also Cain was just trying to get stuff from God like a vending machine. The magic science book would be very different
>>24820708It's not exactly relevant, meaningful or helpful for the reader.
>>24821636People never believed it like that. Philo of Alexandria was doing analogical analysis of biblical texts before the birth of Christ. You're severely uneducated and overconfident, a common and destructive pattern.
>>24820708The authors of the "Gnostic" gospels were divinely inspired and they found out the Hebs were worshiping a satanic entity they called the demiurge. >>24820735Tesla sure was. Hannes Alfven too.
>>24822153HIS wife has a nice cock desu.
>>24822142People analyzed the Bible in that way whenever it was necessary to harmonize parts that seemed to contradict each other, but when it came to things like "the Earth is firmly established, it cannot be moved" and the other half dozen verses saying the same thing this was explicitly taken to be a literal divine truth in favor of the immobility of the Earth. Apologetics don't like to mention that, somehow modern literalism being retarded means that akshually no description in the Bible was taken to be true. That is false. Furthermore, Philo was a hellenized Jew trying to integrate his tradition into Greek philosophy, he had good reason to interpret the Bible to that end.
>>24820819>the bible doesn't contain technical schema for reality therefore everything it says is wrongugh
>>24822213>people find internal contradictions in the bible>that's metaphorical i guess>people find no archeological evidence for genesis >that's metaphorical i guess >people find no archeological evidence for exodus>that's metaphorical i guess>people find no archeological evidence for joshua>that's metaphorical i guess>evolution and geology destroy the creation account >that's metaphorical i guesswhat's next, the fall and the resurrection were metaphors too?
>>24822234Good, now explain to me why the ethical and moral protocols of those stories and how they are taught are wrong.
>>24822240damn, i can't believe jordan peterson posts on /lit/
>>24821610If you let the dentist fix your teeth, you're no better than cavemen. You should be an expert on everything yourself instead of believing anyone who studies the given subject.
How do you even square belief in an allegorical Genesis with a belief in a literal fallen nature from literal sin? That just doesn't make sense to me.
>>24820708>durrr why doesn't this religious book talk about orbital mechanics and quantum chromodynamics????Perhaps that wasn't the aim of the writing, chud. Much like how you don't see scientific research papers talking about theological concepts.
>>24820778>The Bible must be for everyone, from the dumbest of humans to the greatest of poets.Then that requires gradation, not falsehood.
>>24820708>Heliocentric>Still says 'sunrise' and 'sunset'
>>24821789Not sure, but at least they give us the measurements.
>>24820708because such information is not relevant for one to lead a life according to said religion's maxims.
jesus was metaphorical
most deniers of religion are as cringeworthy as your average religious nut who is open to believing that the world is gonna end next week.That said, I warmly recommend this book to all, whether they hold faith or not.
>>24821610>Have you ever seen Jupiter with your eyes?Yes actually, most people have if they've looked at the night sky.
>>24820778>The Bible must be for everyoneVery modern opinion. For most of Christian history the Bible was for big-brained priests to understand and explain it to the dummies as necessary.
>>24822142Philo of Alexandria lived long after the Greeks proved the world was round, however I'm willing to bet he still believed in some incorrect aspects of that picture like the sun revolving around the earth.
>>24822439>we use figures of speech that are left over from when people meant them literally>therefore people in ancient times should also be interpreted as using them as mere figures of speech
I am divinely spidered.
>>24820778>God gave the ancient Hebrews a completely incorrect impression of the nature of the universe on purpose because... just because ok!Look retard, Yahweh could just have easily given them a correct impression of the universe at the level that we teach to small children. There is literally no justification for not having done this.
>>24820708What does any of that have to do with your own salvation? Does knowing how planetary orbits work bring you closer to God?
>>24822775You're free to stop saying "sunrise" and "sunset" at any time.
>>24821797The first 3 chapter come from at least two sources, anon.>>24822381This.St. Augustine was for sure disagreeing with the literal meaning of Genesis 1-2, and no one bat an eye, because that's not meant to explain scientific truths (that I think would be extremely pretentious to start proposing).>>24822417First of all, since when the poetic rendition of the creation of the universe is supposed to be correct in a literal sense?Secondly, let's say you want to test if your AI is more intelligent than humans.You ask her to give you the result for a problem which humans cannot solve and decide if it's true or not.If the result is true, then you need to know how the AI reached that conclusion, i.e. that specific result.Now, how would you do that?Repeating every (let's say mathematical) passage to you would be impossible for you to judge, because there would be too many.Let's say you ask the AI to give you a summary: would it be true? No. Because you won't be able to solve the problem with that summary.Maybe in the future, with the advancement in technology, you'll be able to reach the same result as the AI. But for now, the truth is unreachable. The only thing you can rely on is a summary.Gravity is a summary. You don't know the inner workings of it, but you still rely on it.Gravity is a falsehood. But in the current day technological landscape is all we can hope for.Is gravity more useful than your direct experience with the world to convey the theological message contained in Genesis? No. >>24822759Very Protestant worldview.For most of Christian history, people were illiterate. Those who knew how to read, read the Bible. Latin was the lingua franca during those years. Most read that.There were even translations in local languages, which weren't burned unless you were pulling shit out of your ass (see Martin Luther's Roman 3:28).Also, I used St. Augustine as my pic for a reason. He was the one who said that if you are too dumb to understand the subtlety of Genesis 1, you'll might still get it right. It's in Confessions, if you wanna look for it.>>24822829>just because ok!Because retards won't get what you are saying.>a correct impression of the universe at the level that we teach to small childrenThat impression would be wrong, anon. Dark energy is a placeholder because if we apply the general relativity theory without it, the world would have to collapse on itself. Without dark energy, which is unverifiable as of right now, gravity is also unverifiable.At the end of the day, gravity today is works just as well, for 99% of humanity, as using poetic metaphors to describe what everyone can see: the firmament, a flat surface, and maybe if you start walking in one direction only, you'll end up reaching a huge body of water, which is basically infinite.Also, Isaiah 11:12 says the world has 4 corners, but I really don't see many people showing a square earth to own muh christcucks. Why is that?
>>24820708>if God had influence in writing the Bible why didn't He tell the disciples how to manufacture steam engines
>>24820708>If the authors of the Bible were divinely inspired why didn't God tell them that the earth is a planet orbiting the sun or that the stars are really far away?The secular version of this is more retarded. At least Christians only think the Bible is divinely inspired.
>>24822381>>24823277Ridiculous cope; if the book makes claims about the nature of the universe, then is it not an issue when the claims are found to be incorrect? You all want to eat your cake and have it too. No self-awareness.
>>24822193I will just make a simpler argument then: it makes consistent symbolic sense from front to back. Water, dirt, skies and fruits. There are numerous symbols in the book, which hold consistent meaning book to book, which is how novels or poems are written, not history. The Old Testament would be nothing more than a literary masterpiece without the New Testament, which is historical, and retroactively proves the divinity of the previous text.
>>24822245Yes because Peterson came up with this idea, not hundreds of times but millennium old scholars
>>24822279Not the same thing dullard. One is a matter of epistemic integrity the other is just a process. You didn't understand what op wrote, like most atheists you're not particularly smart.
>>24823520>>24823521Proof Catholics aren't even Christian. How can you call someone else an atheist when you disbelieve all the historical threads of His covenant that Jesus is fulfilling?
>>24823277>Very Protestant worldview.Are you talking about me or yourself? Because>For most of Christian history, people were illiterateIs totally in line with what I said.
>>24822193The word is not moved, but shaken.The idea is that mountains stabilize the earth
>>24823522Had to look up this ancient table.
>>24821948What are these non-sequitor statements? They are irrelevant to the argument I made. My logic was pretty simple "Adam and Eve knew God, and Adam and Eve rebelled, therefore it is possible to know God and Rebel"
>>24820735Yes. So were the animists and astrologists 9k years ago. Anyone who contributed to refining our models towards being more powerful and therefore reflecting the mind of God more accurately.
>>24823838111 is not that high anon, sorry.
>>24823611I don't, to me those covenants are present in the divine revelations provided to the writers of the Old Testament. I think such differences should not be taken all that seriously anyway, as long as we all agree Christ is divine and we ought to follow his teachings.
>>24823458You realise tons of books before the Bible took liberty with known facts of reality to make their point?
>>24824031Higher average IQ than most other groups, which goes against the idea that specifically atheists are dumb. If atheists aren't particularly smart, the theists are even less so, according to this.
>>24824046Dumb is dumb, less or more doesn't matter.
>>24824055Nonsensical cope. You were singling out a specific group for being dumber than the others.
>>24820735If there is divinity in the universe, everyone is divinely inspired. Inspiration can only come from that which exists, and that which existed is divine or derived from the divine.
>>24823984>refining our modelsnormies are so mindraped by historicism
>>24824063No I said I find atheists to be particularly dumb, which they are, regardless of their relative average iq (which is low).
>>24824166Source: Because you feel like it.Isn't that what I just said you said, anyway? You just said the same thing phrased differently.
>>24824197Nah you said:>You were singling out a specific group for being dumber than the others.Which I didn't, I said they are dumb, and no it's not what I feel. 100-129IQ individuals are dumb, objectively, incapable of holding multiple perspectives at once, applying game theory, psychology and schrodinger's cat to real life situations, incapable of intellectual brilliance. For the life of them they can't figure out what philosophers are actually saying or how numbers work.
>>24824245Are the lower IQ groups actually smarter then, or what's your point? The original claim was that most atheists aren't particularly smart, which is fine, but that's inherently a comparison to theists who should apparently be smarter.
>>24824274There are really dumb theists out there sure, truth isn't decided by who believes it. Part of being dumb is inaccurately parsing sentences and meaning. Atheists are mostly dumb creatures, and I've only ever met genius people who are religious or genius people who are complete evil, never met a genius nterested in "rationality" and self proclaiming as an atheist.
>>24824101What is your problem you subhuman piece of shit? The internal constructed representation of the world is the "model", before humans animals still needed models of the world and adaptations that gave power over the world were divinely inspired according to this definition.
>>24823277>For most of Christian history, people were illiterate. Those who knew how to read, read the Bible.Wouldn't the early Church have people from the literate minority read aloud for the rest of the congregation?
Christian theology is self refuting. How can a perfect, all powerful, all good, supreme being have a fallen world on his resume? It's total nonsense.
>>24824752Also, "you shall know them by their fruits", so what conclusions shall we draw when the fruits of God's labor is a fallen world?
>>24824752"Perfect" is a description from the perspective of an imperfect, fallen human. God just is.Would a "perfect" being become imperfect if it explored what existence as something imperfect would look like?
>>24820708>meanwhile at the lambda cdm
>>24824840Das right chuddie.Our cosmology only requires 95% invisible unfalsifiable spooky ghosts to work, as opposed to your 100%, therefore we are big brains and you are backwards retards.
>>24822279>You should be an expert on everything yourselfhow does one become an expert in that which they cannot go to, or properly observe>black hole expert incoming
>>24824838This is the problem though, you'd have to say that the fallen world if part of his plan, his "exploration". And if you consider him as ultimately "good", his plan must be good, and the fallen world is actually a good thing. This would also necessitate believing that children dying of cancer is actually a good thing, since it is part of God's plan for the world and his exploration, which must be rooted in the ultimate good since that is how Christian theology characterizes him. Again, self refuting, the ultimate capitulation which makes any evil a manifestation of God's plan, and thus really a good in the end. Such thinking becomes demonic, since it transforms suffering, pain, and death into good things, desirable things. Like I said, self refuting.
>>24824840>science observes consistent physical interactions, but can't yet explain their cause>therefore uhmmm... lol, atheism????do you actually think a theist wouldn't observe the gravitational effects attributed to dark matter?
>>24824884God covers this personally in Job. He loves the monsters, that doesn't mean you should consider being eaten by a monster a good thing. Cancer is a monster but it's part of the adversity that shaped us into what we are, an expression of the satan, the part of God's court that pressures us and makes us label things "evil". Everything is good, you're suffering the perfect amount.
>>24824849Astronomy is literally based on observations. That guy used Jupiter as an example, which you can see with your naked eye.
>>24825024>Everything is good, you're suffering the perfect amount.Would you walk into a children's cancer ward and utter this manifest lunacy?
>>24825813Their slow suffering and early death is shaping me into who I am and making me appreciate the good things. How else could I experience happiness if randomly picked children weren't suffering as part of God's perfect plan? They're suffering just the perfect divinely ordained amount.
The OT contains mostly a history book.It's a little corrupted and mistranslated but a history book.The elohim were real and yahweh was only one of them and somewhat junior at that scrapping for power using humans like game pieces with other elohim.Elyon the leader of the elohim was the owner of the world not its creator, that's another translation fudge.My current fixation is the word kadosh usually translated as holy. it's closer to meaning selected or special group. so to be holy seemingly means to be one of a chosen few.
>>24825820>"Thanks for suffering and dying kids, I'm glad it's happening to you so I can appreciate just how great things are for me."Yes, this is the core of religious psychopathy.
>>24825836Where did you learn all this? What should I read?
>>24826812It's niggerbabble.
>>24825836So what's the current predicament concerning humans in relation to the elohim? Did they conclude humanity was a failed experiment and buzz off somewhere else? What's guiding human history now?
