Why is it so underrated on /lit/? Is it the simple and profoundly sad answer that most /lit/ dwellers have never experienced love?
>>24825220>Is it the simple and profoundly sad answer that most /lit/ dwellers have never experienced love?That, and the fact that it was written by a woman. Those two things ensured it would never be appropriately respected and admired on this board.
>>24825277A man dealing with obsessive and unconsummated love his entire tortured life is the sort of thing women find romantic, but men maybe not as much? I don't know what men find romantic, but probably something like The Odyssey.
>>24825306>probably something like The Odyssey>pine for your wife and family and home after a brutal war>end up sailing to a hot witch's island>bang her for THREE YEARS without needing to, utterly betraying your wife>woops lol i must really be going now>sail around some more, end up at ANOTHER island with a total nymph babe>fuck around even more for however many years, this woman just waits on you hand and foot, feeds you and you smash>woops i must really be going now lol>finally end up going home>your wife has stayed loyal all this time>your kid is a homicidal maniac and kills like half the servants in your housewhat pray tell was romantic about the odyssey
>>24825319>what pray tell was romantic about the odysseyPretty much everything you said. Romantic means "gives you a boner," right?
>>24825220It's a great book, but you didn't get it if you think it was a romance.
>>24825394It is so frighteningly romantic to the point of alienating most readers. Whether it is a romance or something else depends on how you interpret not the novel, but love itself.
>>24825220Which Bronte sister was the best?
It was the only book I refused to read for summer reading. (I still aced the test thanks to Spark Notes). Its a book for women.
>>24825518I read the first half of Americanah, wrote an essay on its themes, and my professor gave me an A+ and complemented me on my "thorough and thoughtful analysis". College is a joke.
>>24825220>Why is it so underrated on /lit/?It's written by a woman. Thay automatically filters many who expect it to be a darker and racier pride and prejudice (the way it is treated in pop culture doesn't help to be fair)Never heard or anyone actively disliking it, though to really understand its profundity requires a bit of thought
>>24825319Is this not what men find romantic? A desirable, heroic man even the gods want to fuck (and often do) with a hot, loyal wife at home? What else would a male romance look like? If I'm off base, you can tell me what makes men swoon. I don't really know.
>>24826067You have fallen in the 2700-year-old trap of social programming. Penelope is the true hero of The Odyssey. Odysseus is no more than a lowly passive agent who rehearses grief on the shore, but never has the courage to swim.
>>24825220It's my favorite book and I've even ended up visiting the Bronte Parsonage on vacation because of it.
>>24826185That's nice. I wasn't even aware of such a museum. What do you like so much about the novel? Do you relate to Heathcliff or Cathy?
>>24826278I guess if I had to choose it would be Heathcliff, but I just like how dark and real it is compared to Jane Eyre and Tenant of Windfall Hall where the writing is good but I can't help but feel a thin layer of artificiality. It's kinda fascinating how someone so sheltered could produce something like it. I like the descriptions of the landscape and how they parallel the whole passion and love vs realism and security thing, especially after visiting Haworth myself. I like the exploration of how Heathcliff and Catherine's psychology and love develop in the earlier parts of the story, especially as they have to contend with Hindley and Edgar. I like how Heathcliff is unashamedly pure evil and does some of the worst things possible but I can't really hate him and even feel a little sorry for him and even sometimes cheer him on because it's all driven by idealistic love that's unrequited due to the realities of life. So overall I think those are the two strengths of the novel, that relatable desire to want to dwell in your passions and that feeling of injustice towards life for getting the way, as well as having a brutal, awful villain that you can't help but think is based.
>>24825220>women are absolutely vile and vapid whores with a fatal weakness to narcissistic sociopaths: the novelit's a pretty redpilling novel, honestly.
I find the comments about it being 'for women' pretty amusing and hilarious knowing that critics at the time were incredulous that it was written by a female author. I think those philistines have a preconceived notion about it being a romance, which it isn't - though it has plenty of romance in its contents.
Emily was only 27-28 when she penned this masterpiece. What are you doing with your life, anon?
>>24825220This cover is really goodName of this publisher?
>>24826666CheckedThe new movie is sure to not beat the allegations of it being for women
>>24826777Double checked.I've never watched a movie adaptation of this novel, I can imagine they're all hot garbage and Heathcliff is probably presented as this hot sexy brooding stud with fair skin, dark hair and deep blue eyes instead of the vindictive lascar he is in the novel, basing off of the casts I've seen for Jane Eyre where Rochester is always an attractive tall chad instead of the ugly, swarthy 40 years old something guy in the novel. It's really a peculiar irony how, for being 'stories for women', scriptwriters always make bone-deep alterations to everything about these stories to make them suitable for the female audience.
great book, for years I have overlooked it because I thought it was a romance written for women.Finally gave it a chance and it became one of my favorite books. I'll probably end up reading the books written by her sisters, too.
>>24825220It's literally Hysteria: The Novel.
>>24825501I don't know much about Anne, but Emily was something of a basket case. Needed someone to sleep with her, cried frequently, was extremely introverted, hard to deal with, and wrote eyebrow-raising stuff about her brother Branwell. It's clear the intensely repressive modus of English country life she was subjugated to cultivated most of this.Charlotte was very literary, spoke French, had an unrequited crush on a married teacher at one point (probably got all the inspiration for Jane Eyre and Vilette from there), a bit domineering on her sisters, and modified some of the manuscripts they wrote and even burned the incomplete draft of a novel Emily worked on before she died.>>24826319I think it makes sense for someone like Emily, who lived in isolation most her life, to write a novel, which even if very imaginative still has its entire plotline span just two remote country homesteads on the moors separated by 4 miles. Her life had perfectly equipped her to realize that kind of setting, but she still had insane creativity to reap such an intricate and gripping story out of it all.
>>24825220Is it comfy or will I want to blow my brains out?
>>24826140Ok, sure, but what would be romance for men then? Garden State?
>>24827268It's not comfy at all, it's pretty stormy and violent, in a good way. Almost all the characters in it are assholes.
>>24827275For me, comfy = romantic (in the historic sense of the word)
>>24827273There is no such thing as romance "for men" or "for women." Romance is whatever you affirm it to be. To align yourself with an abstract biological category is to deny your own identity.
>>24827294Did you come here from Tumblr? Fucking exhausting. There are consistent trends in tastes and fantasies between the sexes, now fuck off.
>>24827294And ywnbaw, almost forgot
>>24826691It's above the title, anon...
>>24826319>Jane Eyre and Tenant of Windfall Hall where the writing is good but I can't help but feel a thin layer of artificiality.Anne Bronte's Agnes Grey is Jane Eyre without that artificiality. It's the same premise of a woman in financial hardship becoming a governess for rich children, but her journey is more relatable, the children are more realistic, and her romance is more humble, down to earth and authentic.
>>24826787Try the Mexican adaptation by director Luis Bunuel. The movie is black and white so I can't tell for sure, but I'm going to assume anyway that Heathcliff is reasonably brown.It was fun even though they changed the ending and got rid of Wuthering Heights: The Next Generation. Nobody likes the second half of the book starring the children except for me.
>>24827294
>>24826673>rich daddy>male family connections>male editors, male publisher, male ghost writers>"Oh my god this woman BROKE LITERATURE">"She was only 27!!!!1111"You belong on reddit
>>24827294Correct post. Don't let the knee jerk reaction of the other retards from here deter you. They're bootlickers and culture warriors from Twitter who don't have an identity on their own.
>>24827441her family was on the poor side and her accomplishments need no embellishments, even if they deface your nonexistent ones.
>>24827444>even if they deface your nonexistent ones.Lol my accomplishments are far more important than your meme reddit girl.
>>24827456If you have to rebuke this kind of statement this then your 'accomplishments' don't even rise to the fantasy you hold of them in your own imagination, my mobile-posting imbecile.
>>24827460Retard
>>24827469Subhuman /lit/let. Can't muster a response? Good, wouldn't want to tire those sausage fingers tapping on your jeetdroid or whatever mobile you're posting from. Now close the tab and fuck off.
>>24827483Bitch STFU you are a simp for nepo baby chick lit you pretend to read to impress art ho's who also never read it.
>>24825220I read it, and it mostly just pissed me off. Catherine is the bitch. Heathcliff is the black bull. Everyone else are various variations of cucks. Nobody does anything good in that novel, and I somewhat regret investing into it what I did given how much it pissed me off. It's the OG goonslop book, without graphic depictions of sex and instead spiritual gooning or some shit. It is written pretty well, at least. Good imagery and diologue. I heard her sister, Charlotte Bronte was less of a freak and actually touched grass, unlike Emily, so maybe I will read her next >>24825306>I don't know what men find romanticAs a man, I found Paradise Lost romantic. I also found the Epic of Gilgamesh romantic, even if in a gay or platonic way. The Odyssey only sort of romantic, just in that they finally get back together at the end and Penelope isn't an idiot. Odysseus kind of pisses me off because he just fucks everyone, though I guess at least he returns home in the end. I thought Orpheus and Eurydice was romantic. Romeo and Juliette was good. Wuthering Heights is why you don't stick your dick in crazy. It's also why you don't fuck your sister. I do not see depth in it, just foid goon material and psychological torture porn. I get why people like it, seeing as I like physically gorey books where people go through torturous situations, but I like it to go somewhere, you know? I like for the suffering to be for something in the end. I really liked the Importance of being Ernest. I thought that was kind of romantic and cute because of the chemistry. Frankenstein would have been romantic if he actually made the woman creature. My guy was so lonely and sad. As for more contemporary stuff. SAO abridged is very romantic. Re Zero is romantic, if frustrating. Adventure Time got romantic, between Simon and his gf. Fry and Lila from Futurama is always pretty romantic. I always thought Peter and Louis from Family guy were suprisingly wholesome. I also liked Shrek a lot.
>>24827494Still repeating this lie? I already told you she was basically impoverished. She worked as a governess and she and her sisters only took up the pen to pay the bills. She also had no 'male editors' nor used any family connections, which they had very little to begin with. Her accomplishments are her own, and now, in addition to them, we can add a good humiliation for fragile and weak ego.
>>24827514It's not a lie. You only need to look on Wikipedia:>Emily Brontë was born on 30 July 1818[3] to Maria Branwell, the daughter of a wealthy Penzance merchant and property ownerShe grew up as a rich nepobaby. Also>two of Branwell Brontë's friends claimed that Branwell was the true author of the novel. An anonymous article followed in People's Magazine expressing incredulity that such a work could have been written by "a timid and retiring female"Even the people back then knew but because of feminism we have to pretend it wasn't ghost written by men.
>torn between incels who think it's "foidslop" and incels who think this "foidslop" was written by a male authorI at least have more respect for the former, because they engage directly with the material unlike the latter who are more occupied with personal conflicts with women and insecurity.
>>24827496There are no blacks in the book you insane cringelord
It's very long but I binged it in about 4 days, reading a lot each day. It's an excellent novel. I think Jane Eyre was much better, especially in the prose, but even here the prose is top notch. It's definitely crafted to torment anyone who reads it, most off the novel feels like it descends into shadow-filled misery for a very long time, uncharacteristic of most stuff written at the time and even since, which makes the hopeful elements in the story pop out strongly whenever they are. It's the kind of stuff someone who grew up surrounded by cruelty could compose, and readers who haven't had similar experiences would be filtered by a lot of it. Stepping back into these gothic novels always fills me with wonderment at how, no matter how shit or good they are, they are always composed in perfect fashion to fulfill their task. There's not one word too many or too few, they never drag on, writers gave everything its right due, even if a modern reader could balk at how some elements are too long or something of the sort. I thought Nelly, even if she was incomprehensibly retarded at many points, was a great character, and I pitied Hareton a lot. He deserved better. There was one section where Edgar was being brutally cucked that was funny.I'll set myself on reading Tenant at Wildfell Hall and Agnes Gray next. Heard those are the most underrated Bronte novels.
>>24827443
>>24827525That changes nothing; Emily lived poor most of her life, she worked as a governess, a humiliating post that only working class women took on. That's the "nepobaby" life you're claiming she lived, you miserable shitskin? >>two of Branwell Brontë's friends claimed that Branwell was the true author of the novel. An anonymous article followed in People's Magazine expressing incredulity that such a work could have been written by "a timid and retiring female"If this is true, than Branwell was the most feminine man to have ever lived, seeing that WH has femininity written all over it. Mind you these are the same 'anonymous' people who probably wrote the article, joining many other critics who presumed the Brontes were all men before they dropped their pen names.
>>24827685>the most feminine man to have ever livedThere is nothing feminine about the book.
>>24827691Why are you making a conjecture about a novel you never read, plebe?
>>24827694I watched the film adaptation, that sort of counts.
If love as a man involved a woman pursuing me and confessing her love for me and then sacrificing the rest of her life to me as my work horse, then I'd read about it all day too..The truth is that you're not made to feel special as a man in most romance stories. It just reminds me of the fact that my romantic success is mostly tied to my economic success and/or status. Made to feel like an object or a tool. Reminded that most relationships are transactional.If there is a book out there where a completely average joe marries a supermodel-CEO (being hyperbolic, any kind of "dating down" will do) then point me in its direction.
>>24827273>but what would be romance for men then?Lars and the real girl.
The ending with Heathecliff being buried next to Catherine was pretty infuriating and a denial of much-awaited karmic justice that should've been delivered on him.
>>24825501Emily is the hottest can confirm
>>24826673If I didn't live in a society that let me jerk off to infinite pornography I would also be a genius
>>24826067No.
>>24827496>Heathcliff is the black bullWhat did anon mean by this?
>>24827999This is true.
>>24825220It's slower than reading Dune Messiah and 3 volumes...I could understand if I felt anything but boredom. I told my English Lit teacher this and she kicked me out of the classroom. Just for me to come back the next day because our headmaster told her, "Expressing ones opinion over a book is what you are supposed to do. If he thought it was boring, who is to say he was wrong."
>>24827757Don't know about books, but there are romantic comedies like Notting Hill, that Jlo/Owen Wilson movie, that Seth rogen/Charlize Theron movie. I think the Seth Rogen movie may have even been targeted at men. I assume there are romance books like this, but I wouldn't know them. I can understand the sentiment. Women's greatest asset is our looks and we're inundated with examples of otherwise useless women being valued because they're pretty. Men's greatest asset is their finances and we're inundated with examples of ugly, horrible but rich men with beautiful women. And it's probably a grass is greener situation on both sides. To me it seems like almost no woman wants a Donald Trump but every man wants a Melania. To a man it probably seems the other way around.
>>24828224>Women's greatest asset is our looks and we're inundated with examples of otherwise useless women being valued because they're prettyI understand this, the looks vs money transaction. But the Twilights and the 50 Shades of Greys have average Jane female leads, seemingly put there as self inserts (okay so Kristen Stewart is beautiful but you get the idea). It's also just easier for you to eat less and put on makeup than it is for me to become a wealthy socialite.>And it's probably a grass is greener situation on both sidesPossibly. But the other answer to the question (of why men don't consume romance stories) is that men just don't love, and that's not true, we love deeply. So I'd rather believe that most romances are just not targetted at men.And for the record I think most men definitely do NOT want a Melania. Thanks for the recs.
>>24827213The problem with trying to state what Emily Brontë was like is that there's very little known about her (and what's known is coloured by Charlottes and subsequent biographers mythologising). But from what I've read, she didn't cry a lot, spent plenty of time sleeping alone (her sisters were frequently away for school and work) and while possibly eccentric, was certainly not a 'basket case'. I've also never heard of her writing 'eyebrow-raising stuff' about her brother — could you post an example?
>>24827538>>24828155Name ONE time Heathcliff's skin color is mention. He was adopted, dirty, and described very much like an animal. Emily left his race unclear on purpose.And what does Catherine do? She chooses to get married to make that guy a betabucks while she actually wants to fuck Heathcliff while retaining her money and status and making a pet out of her real husband. Quintessential cuck story. Heathcliff might as well be BBC. The Irish were basically like the blacks back then anyway if you'd rather see him that way. But the contemporary version of what Heathcliff is supposed to be imo is basically whatever is fetishized as like more masculine and alien for being unlike every other race at the time.See the literal bull in picrel. That could be heathcliff if you want, now that foids are actually tired of normal men and would fuck bears. This isn't coming from nowhere. This story is just that miserably loony.
>>24827443Libtards have redefined bootlicking as meaning not freely gobbling up whatever nonsense propaganda is being peddaled by multinational corporations and universities
>>24828224>Women's greatest asset is our lookst. tranny
Fairly few people, maybe one in six or so, have ever genuinely experienced romantic love.
>>24828531It's not something I condone, retard. I also don't think men should valued according to their ROI. Not a tranny and ywnbaw.
>>24828477But Mr. Heathcliff forms a singular contrast to his abode and style of living. He is a ---> dark- skinned gipsy <---in aspect, in dress and manners a gentleman: that is, as much a gentleman as many a country squire: rather slovenly, perhaps, yet not looking amiss with his negligence, because he has an erect and handsome figure; and rather morose.
>>24825306>A man dealing with obsessive and unconsummated love his entire tortured life is the sort of thing women find romanticI am under the impression that women think of me and judge me as a virgin, which of course is bad for a man. Are you sure you are not talking about hot men who are obsessive and with unconsummated love?
>>24827273Exactly what you said before, but The Odyssey is not that. Odysseus bangs 2 other women while still married and gets away with it. One for almost 10 years too.
>>24828498How do you know that you have genuinely self-authored any belief that you hold? The fact that you speak with such conviction suggests that you don't, but that you desperately must believe that you do.
>>24828616What i said before:"A desirable, heroic man even the gods want to fuck (and often do) with a hot, loyal wife at home? What else would a male romance look like?"That's the Odyssey, bro. This conversation is going in circles because you insist on pretending you're smarter and wiser than everyone else. Bye bye Pajeet.
>>24827572Tenant is ok. Feminist novel and it paints the protag as a prefect human. It comes across as a manual on how women should behave and how to treat women. Nowadays it's a given but in the Victorian age it was shocking, apparently. The fact that it doesn't consider material and financial wellbeing as a reason to love/marry someone is something that would stay true regardless of when it's read.
>>24828639Nice psychoanalysis I guess but I'm not a strict partisan or ideologue which automatically puts me above most in that regard
>>24825332> "gives you a boner"That is called arousing.Romantic means you long for it, you need it, you want to be with it, you want to know it on the intimate level.>intimate means boner!No, means an exclusive deep knowledge and understanding.
>>24828477>a monster baitSay it fast enough and it sounds like "masturbate". A monster bait novel. A masturbate novel.Very subtle... not.
>>24828748Most annoying and autistic person I've come across in a while. Indian?
>>24828777Projecting? Seethe more, migger.
>>24827572I thought Agnes Grey was very good. Well written and a tight storyline. I liked Tenant as well, but it's been a while and I need to go back to it. Right now I'm working my way through Villette, which I'm enjoying and would recommend (but look for an edition with translations for the French).
>>24828817lol, that's a yes
>>24828725That is commendable, but when you respond with such fervent derision to another view, you are implicitly exalting another dogma that is categorically the same as the partisan or ideological dogma that you consider to be below yourself. Can you see this?
>>24828611Bitch, read the book, i shouldn't have to explain this to you. Heathcliff married another Linton. He wasn't a virgin, only his romance with Cathy went unconsummated. Women live in the tension, not the climax. And it's only appealing because it's fantasy.So no, to answer your question, no one desires an undesirable man. Go to the gym.
>>24828935Sanjay, time to log off
It is truly one of the most nerve wracking, distressing books I have ever read. The fact that it came from the mind of a young woman with no romantic or social experience outside of her own provincial family, who died shortly after it was published, makes it even more astonishing. It taps into incredible darkness. Everyone will tell you it’s not a frilly 19th-century romance and not to expect Jane Austen but you still will not be prepared.
>>24828868>>24827572What do I start with, Tenant or Agnes? I would prefer going from worst to best. And how is Villette for real? I tried reading Shirley last year and I felt suicidal boredom at around 135 pages.
>>24829293>>24828707>>24829293Meant for these
>>24829293Agnes Grey. It's pretty short and gives you an idea of Anne Brontës style.I'm enjoying Villette. I can somewhat relate to Lucy Snowes attitude to life and her philosophy on how to survive it. But I can also see how to some (maybe younger, less relatable) it might seem a bit slow and boring.
