Was Dante right about so-called neutrals?
>>24857688I hate these shitty Facebook memes man. Dante never even said this.
Ignoring that your are a memefaggot.What is the case when you stridently disagree with both sides thinking they're all a bunch of wrthless faggots?
>>24857701Thats picking the third option, hell is reserved for centrists.
>>24857688Where is that quote even from? In the divine comedy the neutroolers aren't even in hell proper, white the deepest circles of it are reserved to traitors
>>24857697He didn't? MLK specifically references this in Why I Oppose the War in Vietnam
picking sides gets you to hell becaues none of this shit matters, therefore neutrals are the only ones who make it anywhere close to escaping this cess pit of reality
>>24857688I just false flag both sides and get them to fight even more, where do I go?
>>24857887MLK was a heretic. and I'm not speaking about his views on race, only his writing on Christian doctrine
>>24857688NOOOO you MUST join me in the impotent culture wars! Ineffectively argue against bots all day with me or you're going to HELL! Pick a side!!!!
>>24857688Today's moral crises are manufactured shit-flinging with no real substance and anyone taking part is a fool. Just vote and be done with it, if you care. Hell is also not real.
where did all the circle of hell and levels and ranks of angels and all this crap even come from? none of this shit is in my bible.
Those who refuse to take a side aren't accepted by either Heaven or Hell and so spend eternity wandering a dark plain aimlessly, forced to hurry on to nowhere at a frantic pace, while being harassed by hateful insects. The punishment, being forced to hurry although they have not aimed themselves at any destination, is emblematic of the way they lived their lives.My favorite interpretation of the "one who made the Great Refusal," (who does not even deserve a name) is that it is Pontius Pilate, who refuses to intervene to save an innocent man, instead chosing the path of least resistance and refusing to take a side. This creates a good bookend where the first sinner Dante sees is Pilate and the last Judas, although some think it is Pope Celestine who retired from the Papacy ushering in the reign of the corrupt Boniface of whom so much is said in the Commedia.
>>24857917The Commedia isn't supposed to be a factual description of the afterlife (afterall, how could Dante know). It is the embodiment of Thomistic theology (and other influences, Saint Bonaventure, Saint Dionysius, Saint Boethius, Averoese, etc.) in narrative. The architecture of Hell and Purgatory is finely crafted to reflect theories of sin. Lust is the first sin in Hell (the lightest) and the last cleansed in Purgatory because it at least involves being ordered towards another person, a relationship that could be appropriate if properly ordered. Likewise, gluttony is at least a natural appetite. The Commedia is all about properly ordered loves (as made clear in its middle cantos in the Purgatorio). The view of God in the Inferno is what God looks like to the damned. The entire pilgrimage follows a spiral arc so that the same topics are revisted at the same points at ever higher levels of understanding (and their physical path is a spiral too, although Dante starts moving in instantaneous jumps in Paradise because intellectus involves a grasp of wholes and he is no longer reliant on discursive ratio, or in a physical sense, walking).The order of the angelic hosts is in the Bible. It mentions angels, archangels, thrones, dominions, principalities, etc. (e.g., in Saint Paul's letters) and the Cherubim and Seraphim, as well as the gathering of the elders and offering of the prayers of the saints in God's "throne room" in Revelation.
>Once man loses his faculty of indifference he becomes a potential murderer; once he transforms his idea into a god the consequences are incalculable. We kill only in the name of a god or of his counterfeits: the excesses provoked by the goddess Reason, by the concept of nation, class, or race are akin to those of the Inquisition or of the Reformation. The ages of fervor abound in bloody exploits: a Saint Teresa could only be the contemporary of the auto-da-fé, a Luther of the repression of the Peasants’ Revolt. In every mystic outburst, the moans of victims parallel the moans of ecstasy… Scaffolds, dungeons, jails flourish only in the shadow of a faith—of that need to believe which has infested the mind forever. The devil pales beside the man who owns a truth, his truth. We are unfair to a Nero, a Tiberius: it was not they who invented the concept heretic: they were only degenerate dreamers who happened to be entertained by massacres. The real criminals are men who establish an orthodoxy on the religious or political level, men who distinguish between the faithful and the schismatic.>What is the Fall but the pursuit of a truth and the assurance you have found it, the passion for a dogma, domicile within a dogma? The result is fanaticism—fundamental defect which gives man the craving for effectiveness, for prophecy, for terror—a lyrical leprosy by which he contaminates souls, subdues them, crushes or exalts them… . Only the skeptics (or idlers or aesthetes) escape, because they propose nothing, because they—humanity’s true benefactors—undermine fanaticism’s purposes, analyze its frenzy. I feel safer with a Pyrrho than with a Saint Paul, for a jesting wisdom is gentler than an unbridled sanctity. In the fervent mind you always find the camouflaged beast of prey; no protection is adequate against the claws of a prophet…>A human being possessed by a belief and not eager to pass it on to others is a phenomenon alien to the earth, where our mania for salvation makes life unbreathable. Look around you: everywhere, specters preaching; each institution translates a mission; city halls have their absolute, even as the temples—officialdom, with its rules—a metaphysics designed for monkeys… Everyone trying to remedy everyone’s life: even beggars, even the incurable aspire to it: the sidewalks and hospitals of the world overflow with reformers. The longing to become a source of events affects each man like a mental disorder or a desired malediction. Society—an inferno of saviors! What Diogenes was looking for with his lantern was an indifferent man.
>>24857915>Just vote So close and yet so far
>>24857964And note that in II Corinthians 12 Saint Paul describes being gathered up to the Third Heaven himself. Dante appeals to this explicitly in comparing himself (as unworthy) to this episode on the Epistles and Aeneas travel into the underworld in Book VI of the Aeneid. Virgil is here a foil for not only Pagan wisdom but also the insufficiency of even rightly ordered merely human reason and discursive ratio alone without the infused theological virtues of hope, faith, and charity (as demonstrated by his impotence in the face of the closed gates of Dis during the Medusa encounter). An erotic other, Beatrice as divine revelation, must take Dante past the utopia of the Earthly Paradise, since here we move towards union with the divine and "knowing by becoming."Pic related is excellent on the great depth here.This article (https://philarchive.org/archive/BRODTD-3) also provided a more "mid-level" look at the Commedia for any who are interested. I have noticed that there tends to only be intro level material or else hyper focused specialist material, without as much in-between.
>>24857688
>>24857967This sort of stuff feels so incredibly naive and hollow to me these days, now living with the consequences of logos-skepticism, the tyranny of irony, the abolition of all custom, etc."Throwing the baby out with the bath water," might actually be too kind. It is itself a sort of supreme arrogance masscurading as pious humility to pretend that one has understood all the saints and sages better than they did themselves, and found in them no trace of true wisdom, only psychologism.Dante is a great example of someone whose wisdom is written off simply because it is foreign. Yet it is a particular sort of liberal dogmatism that sees references to Hell, takes the text at a surface level, and dismisses it as dogmatism.So too, the Enlightenment dismissal of all past thought, from Hume to Kant is itself reliant on dogmatic presuppositions. This probably wouldn't have surprised Plato, who seemed to understand the need for myth to instruct that we might understand, but it took a steady stream of pic related for the dark, obscuring haze of Enlightenment to be cleared away from modern eyes.That is, skeptics can be every bit as dangerous as fanatics. Rather than corrupting the truth, they ignore it, and command that everyone else must as well.
>>24857995Lol, as if Cioran were some kind of Enlightenment liberal. Obviously he's speaking from the standpoint of a pessimist who regards the Enlightenment project as a dogmatic superstition responsible for the wholesale destruction of tens of millions of human beings. Scepticism has a very respectable pedigree. It is the humane intellectualism of Cicero, Montaigne, Bayle. Not the kind of free-for-all nihilistic clusterfuck you're talking about. How can you call yourself someone who cares about truth if you don't really care about truth? If it doesn't matter whether or not the content of your beliefs is true? If all that matters is that you hold a conviction, regardless of whether or not it is the right one.
>>24857968Meh, you lose very little casting a vote. Takes ten minutes out of your day once every couple years. Either it does nothing or it pushes a grain of sand.
"The fence belongs to Satan" is my favorite modern Christian cope. As if either side of the current cultural divide aren't both inextricably linked and just as evil by nature as the other by design.Directionbrains deserve all of their suffering. All of it.
>>24857706>>24857701Centrist doesn't mean somebody that hasn't pick a side. The correct term would be "apolitical". Centrism is when you think that there must be a political balance between the two sides that have been fighting since ancient times (often called Oligarchy and Democracy, or Oligarchy and Demagogy). Remember that Dante put Aristotle, the father of centrism, as the most respected person in Limbo, a place without suffering and designed for the most virtuous non-christians.
>>24858052Let them be. Politics unironically is a huge waste of time.
>>24858055BASED
>>24858010No, but he seems here unable to transcend the Enlightenment in his thinking.I am not sure how you managed to get from a very short criticism of logos-skepticism the idea that "all the matters is conviction not truth." This would just be yet another way to fail to participate in the Logos. The point is that both failures can be equally dire.Literature is instructive here, 1984 and A Brave New World represent societies organized around modern volantarism and skeptical intellectualism respectively. Both fail to transcend the immediacy of thymotic or bodily appetites, and so both represent principles of civilization that are grotesque when taken to their limit.
>>24858010Also we might question if the skeptic leaves himself any rational grounds for being humane. No doubt, Hume also stumps for the "humane" and yet this bottoms out in sheer emotivism and irrational sentiment, as he himself allows. I think Hume is simply being honest here. The ancient Empiricist drive towards ataraxia is itself wholly selfish and solipsitic in a way, as is Kant's sterile, wholly formal ethics, even if it comes to laudable conclusions. This is what happens when real communion with being is denied and man absolutizes his finite participation in the Logos as the limit of the Logos itself.The problem is not so much that this tends to bottom out in "pragmatism," but that this pragmatism reveals itself to be wholly irrational voluntarism in the end. The world ceases to be a ladder up to the divine.
>>24857688There is truth to it. Disregard the politics of his day, from a poetic standpoint it's probably Dante at his most romantic. Anyone who wants to play poker but has nothing to gamble, doesn't stake anything on his life, and in genetal, participate in life, does not deserve the gift of life.Other similar quotes:>The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind. (William Blake)>He who cannot hate is not a man, and history is made by men. (Oswald Spengler)>Love does not rule; but it trains, and that is more. (Goethe)
>>24857917It's all allegory for political corruption. I don't know why people take Dante's comedy seriously
>>24857887“people often make up convenient quotes”, Winston Churchill
>>24857911What a cuck of a post.
>>24857688>left>right>blue>red>joos>nazisit's all literally the same machinei hate to quote the sequels, i don't even know if this has ever been done butlive free, don't jointhere's literally no good guys left, we have no friends, so why tf would i waste my life dying for Israel or alternatively dying for Israel, it's retarded
>>24858884>no good guys leftWrong. The communists are still here.>we have no friendsWrong again. The communists are your friends.
>>24857887MLK is a man blacks don't even respect any more, or they'd focus on meritocracy...why do you respect him?
I'm not neutral–I hate everybody. A pox on all their houses.
>>24858046Well its comforting to know you're a pussy.
>>24858911Not mine but okay
>>24858911niggercommunismisfuckingJEWISHSo yeah, my point stands
>>24858911>communism is good guys????They deny individual rights, and any group can be torn to pieces by denying the rights of the individual.
>>24858911Better dead than red.
>>24858943Are you really going to argue why communism is bad on 4chan in 2025 man? Yeah, we know, there's no need to justify it, arguing anything with a leftist is a waste of time anyway.
In times of real moral crisis I would agree. Not whatever this psyop is that we are experiencing in our current climate. Call me when something real happens. When real war isn't in abundance we start searching for reasons to have one, and the ones being presented today are weak as fuck.
>>24858966What about Israel's genocide?
>>24858966You will die for Israel, goy.
>>24858884>there's literally no good guys leftMAKE your good guy side. If there are no heroic factions left, we need to start one. You can just do things. Don't settle for things as they are, work and act to make things as they should be.
Depends how much they could realistically change the issue at hand. One of the biggest issues in society right now is people projecting their own flaws outwards so for most people it would be better if they stopped taking a stance on things and instead worked on their 'mental health' instead of offloading that to pills.
>>24859179Don't fucking tell me what to do bitch, all I'm doing is answering to a post, not talking about what the solution is, if making your own is the answer in your opinion it's not up to me to do anything about it, you fucking do it, you're the one saying it.
>>24859058Hamad is equally culpable. If anything, the only reason you care is because of their propaganda machinery. Death of all innocent life is a travesty, to promote either side doesn't change what the leaders intend. To them people are resources to play chess with, Israel is just better at the game.
>>24859293>innocent peopleJews are neither people nor innocent.
>>24857688It depends on who you ask. It's easy to be a mouthpiece for something. It's harder to speak your own words into something meaningful.
neutrality is enlightenment tier, it's seeing the world with both eyes open and seeing things exactly how they are, it's seeing the good and the bad in both sides, "pick a side"" fags are stuck in duality "me good, you bad" thinking, while a bunch of retards on the left and right REEEEE at you to "pick a side" and you just say "no" and ascend to the grill
>>24857688Whoo, glad I'm not going into the darkest parts of hell as a serial killer
I think one reason a lot of people dislike neutrality is that they sense that for many people it's a mirage. Most people actually do fall on this or that side of any given issue, or any given dispute between factions. You will naturally wind up sympathizing with this side or that. What a position of neutrality has the feel of, then, is cowardice. Like you have your sympathies but lack the bravery to stand by them openly.
>>24858740kek
>>24857706Centrist just means pro establishment.
>>24858911kys
>>24857688Side A: >I want to kill you, your family, and all traces of your culture. And your government will help me. Side B: >hey, we need to kill these assholes. They're coming after us!You:>Hey, hey. I dont want to pick sides. Yes, you deserve to burn in hell.
>>24859407Can't tell if this is a seething indian or jew
>>24859416A white.
>>24858943Nothing affirms a thing as much as the act of its denial.
>>24858962It helps to reaffirm simple truths, it gives the community clear voice and initiates the naive into the ways of our culture.
>>24859407A distracts C from what B is saying so that they can kill both B an C
>>24859407This anon basically gets it and fuck you if you think different.This isn't a fucking game. In 20 years we'll be living in some mixture of South Africa and Stalinist Russia if we don't do something. All of this convoluted BS and 'it's all the same' is manufactured so that you give up and just let it happen.
>>24858740lol how ironic, Churchill never said that
>>24859765The vast majority of white people marry with other whites (as do other races). This anon gets it >>24858966 and you're a deranged schizo
>>24857688Condemnation of neutrals is the rhetoric of retards.Most people are not going to be married to an ideology.
The grillers shall inherit the earth.
>>24859765When did wignats become such whiney fags? A few years ago it was the whole "right wing death squad" meme, and now you're trying to act like you're being hunted down. Are you the poor little innocent victim or are you the based nazi drawing whose crushing people's skulls? Make up your mind
I'm not altogether on anybody's side because nobody is altogether on my side, if you understand me.
>>24857688This is why I have no respect for DanteA supreme moralfag
>>24857887MLK was a lying commie
>>24857967Serious "weak men who make bad times" vibes on this particular spasm of Boomerism.
>>24861121Stop I'm already dying of cringe
>>24860954Further, for the same most people are not going to take any part in the making of history. That's mostly done by the minorities that become deeply invested in the ideas and events, that is, fucking getting off their asses and doing something. Bothering with neutrals in any way is a waste of time because they don't matter.
>>24859371based
>>24858042I turn in a blank ballot because I like the idea of voting in theory but acknowledge its general uselessness in practice.
>>24858042>Meh, you lose very littleYou lose your soul. To vote is to consent.
>>24862520Me :D
Alright, then. Who gets to decide where the "moral crisis" starts and ends?
>>24862526Me :)
>In March 1302, Dante, a White Guelph by affiliation, along with the Gherardini family, was condemned to exile for two years and ordered to pay a large fine. Dante was accused of corruption and financial wrongdoing by the Black Guelphs for the time that Dante was serving as city prior (Florence's highest position) for two months in 1300.The poet was still in Rome in 1302, as the Pope, who had backed the Black Guelphs, had "suggested" that Dante stay there. Florence under the Black Guelphs, therefore, considered Dante an absconder.Oh gee, it's a politician telling me to pick a side or go to hell.
>>24862526Dante
>>24857977>An erotic other, Beatrice as divine revelation, must take Dante past the utopia of the Earthly ParadiseI could have swore that either an introduction or footnote in the La Vita Nuova I read there was a comment about Beatrice being fictional. Dante might have made her up because he knew the literary importance of a muse
>>24859768>ThatsTheJoke.jpeg
>>24857688Dante's fallacy is assuming it's obvious and agreed upon what is a moral crisis. Maybe the neutral just don't care about your crisis.
