Virgilian editon>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·>>24837194>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw>Mέγα τὸ ANE·https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg>Work in progress FAQhttps://rentry dot co/n8nrkoAll Classical languages are welcome.
Question for this thread: What are the most interesting texts written by women in the language you're studying?
>>24877875I just know few lines of Sappho by heart.That's all folks.
>>24877875divination records of Fu Hao 妇好 from the Shang dynastyAll writing of Wu Zetian 武则天 the only female empress of China from the Tang dynastyThe poetry and literary criticism of Li Qingzhao 李清照 from the Song dynasty
>>24877675This is very true. They have their own trade-offs. For my part I kind of just did what I was told and worked through my first two textbooks (wheelock and FR) but now I basically have alternate bursts of either grammar study or at-level reading.The debate is less what to learn, and more in what order and proportion to do it.
German is more precise than Latin in this particular case, and apparently Bulgarian is even more precise because it has three forms where German has two.
>>24877858Here is a short documentary film on Hippocrates and Greek medicine I thought some of you might enjoy. GER Lloyd from this video is the translator of Greek for Hippocrates in the Penguin classics edition https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u1RHCarlm5c&pp=ygUuSGVhbHRoIGFuZCBIZWFsaW5nIGluIEFuY2llbnQgR3JlZWNlIGFuZCBDaGluYQ%3D%3D
>>24877858At about 51 seconds in to this video can any Anons make out the names of the titles of the Classical Chinese medical texts on the bookshelf?https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u1RHCarlm5c&pp=ygUuSGVhbHRoIGFuZCBIZWFsaW5nIGluIEFuY2llbnQgR3JlZWNlIGFuZCBDaGluYQ%3D%3D
>>24878229The guy you see in the first few seconds, I saw his face somewhere earlier today, felt like a déjà vu seeing it now.>GER LloydHuh? Garloid? I don't know what you're talking about but apparently you shouldn't feed it tapwater.
>>24878156Would’ve been nice if the Germans chose low German for the national form of the language because then I could read it. Extra forms doesn’t necessarily result in more precision though, since it all depends on how it fits within a sentence. But I don’t really doubt your claim.And yes, reading especially the gospels and genesis/exodus is the earliest and easiest Latin you can really get into. That poster seems unaware (because he’s attacking a strawman) that Latin by the Natural Method recommends that students begin reading it as early as the 11th week of study.
>>24878354>Extra forms doesn’t necessarily result in more precision though, since it all depends on how it fits within a sentence.What? I posted English next to it to show that in English it's ambiguous and in German it's not, because of its vs seiner/ihrer.
>>24878251He wrote some of the translations in this volume (pic related). In particular he translated “The Canon of Medicine.” It contains some minor errors relying too much on literalism in some areas. A scathing insult/ quip against Socrates (“dubious things above and below the earth”) is rendered as actual references to geometry and astronomy- fields which aren’t at all dubious in any way, rendering the critique of other fields of science incomplete.
>>24878389>German is more precise than Latin in this particular caseCan you see how posting this with an image of English and German text is confusing?
>>24878519The German equivalent of "its" is picrel. Possessive adjectives in 3rd person singular. The stem inflects for gender of the possessor noun (antecedent), "sein-" for masculine and neuter, "ihr-" for feminine, that's the red square at the top. (it also inflects for number, but we're excluding plural here) Then the suffix inflects for number, gender and case of the possessed noun (head noun), that's the bottom red square. That's 12 different words for "its" in German:seinseineseinenseinemseinerseinesihrihreihrenihremihrerihresIn my example >>24878156 it's the two stems that are relevant though:sein-ihr-The 6 different forms of these agree with the possessed noun (head noun)/show which word is the possessed noun (head noun), in this case "Einfachkeit", but since the possessed noun (head noun) comes right after a possessive adjective it's rather redundant. The inflection of the stem however is more valuable, because it disambiguates whether the possessor noun (antecedent) is masculine/neuter or feminine. In the English text it's ambiguous if the possessor noun (antecedent) of "its" is "the grammar textbook pill" or "the NT". But in German it's unambiguous because "die Grammatikpille" is feminine and "des Neuen Testaments" is neuter (nominative: das Neue Testement, genitive: des Neuen Testaments) so you write "ihrer" if you mean to refer to "die Grammatikpille" and "seiner" if you mean to refer to "des Neuen Testaments". Latin, like English, has only one word for this, "eius". Latin generally has richer and more precise grammar than German, but this is an exception.
>>24878747That's fucking retarded
>>24878762what's retarded?
>>24878764Because it is an absurd level of complexity for little to no payoff in grammar. Good writing will not leave the meaning off two words ambiguous. My point was that there is more to precision than just having extra word forms, such as word orders.What you're actually saying is that German can be precise in certain word orders that would be imprecise in English, but that English writers ought to avoid because in our language it would be imprecise. Otherwise the difference in precision is marginal. What, you can tell what gender a word is? Big whoop. At least in Latin, where word order is highly flexible, such things are valuable. Japanese is often remarkably imprecise, but there are certain word orders that would be unintelligible in English/German that are usable for precise statements in Japanese. My point is that it's a ridiculous metric that equates the convoluted with the useful.People mess up proper syntax all the time in casual environments like 4chan, and I am sure they do the same with convoluted gender rules.Too much complexity harms utility. Since Hochdeutsch was chosen mere centuries ago, and since the Prussians had the opportunity to choose far more analytic and less inflected dialects, its status as "German" offends me.
>>24878783Very weak arguments.The only way English can disambiguate in a text like my example is by restating the antecedent, and the whole purpose of pronouns and possessive adjectives is to not have to restate the antecedent, which can be very long sometimes. English frequently works around this by using acronyms. So in my example the poster would have to replace "its simplicity" with "the simplicity of the grammar textbook method"/"the simplicity of the NT", or write "Take the grammar textbook pill (TGTP)" and then instead of "its simplicity" write "TGTP's simplicity" if that was the antecedent. People who write in English very often don't think the extra step and try to imagine how a text reads to the reader, they as writer know what is put into "its" and "it", but the reader doesn't, this is a cognitive bias known as the curse of knowledge, German has a built-in protection against it.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_knowledgeThere's a place for simple languages, and there's a place for complex languages. That's why pidgins were created for example. You are free to use simple languages.https://youtu.be/zRlnVhdw7y4https://youtu.be/qqJI7SdS9Gg
>>24878843>the whole purpose of pronouns and possessive adjectives The arrogance of Germans and wehraboos. Did you knock down Babel and create separate languages? Am I speaking with God?It insists on itself. Same with the attitude of the French and Italians to a lesser degree, but Germans are easily the most arrogant about their super special complex grammar.Every German-English translation I’ve read does shit like >“Taunhaus” (this word can’t be translated but it means something like house in a town)Instead of just putting “townhouse” like Germans invented the idea of compound words.And every non-German who says “the original German just can’t be translated because it’s too precise” that I have met IRL is a wannabe reactionary LARPer who isn’t actually involved in politics or institution-building who thinks that they’re the only nigger on Earth to understand Hegel because they can sorta-read German.
>>24878843>There's a place for simple languages, and there's a place for complex languages. That's why pidgins were created for example. You are free to use simple languages.This section is especially ironic since standardized german is an artificial literary middle ground of high german dialects. I speak the language of my forefathers as it evolved through common practice over the past millennium. You speak something that is a product of the unholy machinations of 19th century grammarians. Except you still had to learn the language of my forefathers, because my forefathers crushed Germany twice. Bit sad isn’t it?
Interesting Latin works for a beginner to read? I don't like poems and theology, and would prefer a collection of short stories.
>>24878927Familia Romana, and the other books in the series, most of which are in these two links:https://archive.org/details/lingualatinalatinbookshttps://archive.org/details/lingua-latina-per-se-illustrata_202506descriptions of the books are here:https://hackettpublishing.com/lingua-latina-per-se-illustrata-series
>>24878927If you've just started learning then Colloquia Personarum is probably the only one you'll be able to read of those, apart from Familia Romana. It's meant to be read alongside Familia Romana, I think the chapters correspond to the chapters in Familia Romana.https://archive.org/details/lingua-latina-per-se-illustrata_202506/Lingua%20Lat%C4%ABna%20per%20s%C4%93%20ill%C5%ABstr%C4%81ta/Pars%20I/Suppl%C4%93menta/%C3%98rberg%2C%20Colloquia%20pers%C5%8Dn%C4%81rum/page/n7/mode/2upOtherwise you have interlinears.https://archive.org/details/caesarscommentar07caes
>>24878927Well the gospels and genesis/exodus are just narratives. Unless that counts as “theology” for you because the religion they pertain to still exists. They’re the easiest latin texts to read and have a lot of translations for obvious reasons.
>>24878927Look up the r*ddit Latin reading list. Also Legentibus has a lot of beginner short stories for free.
whats the easiest ancient greek work to read after logos and athenaze if the anabasis filtered me?
>>24879457Have you tried an interlinear version of it?https://archive.org/details/anabasisofxenoph00xenoiala
>>24878893>>24878897That's a lot of adhominems. Study logic. As a matter of fact I'm just a beginner at German. Not that it matters one bit for the subject.
>>24878232The books are the 文渊阁四库全书, more commonly just known as the 四库全书It's a Qing dynasty encyclopedia/collection of books. In total over 10,000 books. The ones on screen are from the histories section (史部)for example I can see 405 which is the second part of the 尚史, a collection of biographies of ancient figures until the Qin dynasty.I expect the video makers just searched up "Chinese books stock footage" and used that lmao
>>24878927Isodorus, something for everyone in thereNepos
Doing a close reading of a section of poetry and then committing those lines to memory feels more effective and enjoyable for building vocabulary than drilling words through flashcards.
>>24878843...unless of course the two possible antecedents happen to be of the same gender.
>>24879104Aren't they in somewhat awkward Latin because they're fairly literally translated from Hebrew?
>>24879920kinda yes, Jerome sort of tries to stay in the middle, not stray too far from a literal interpretationthe gospels were in Koine Greek though so the Latin translation doesn't need to to do cartwheels for literalism
>>24879975Isn't Greek in literal Latin still liable to be vaguely awkward even if not outright bizarre?
>>24880038I mean sure, certain expressions might come off as a bit weird sounding by the classical ear, e.g from a quick look in Matthew>cum esset desponsata mater ejus Maria Joseph, antequam convenirent inventa est in utero habens de Spiritu Sancto.>in utero habens de Spiritu Sanctothis takes the Greek quite literally «ἐν γαστρὶ ἔχουσα ἐκ πνεύματος ἁγίου» while maybe in classical one would expect an expression like idk "gravida (ex) Spiritu Sancto", or, as in Sebastian Castellio's classical rendition of the bible, the whole expression is translated as "comperta est uterum ferre ex Spiritu Sancto"but still, for the most the Latin is beginner friendly without being "bad"
>>24879915Yes, but then at least you have the option to replace one of them with a synonym of another gender, an option you don't have in English and Latin. Bulgarian has three forms, not two. Having two forms is infinitely better than one.
>>24879623Oh, that is sad. I finished the Hippocratic corpus of Greece as well as Galen's Natural Faculties so I was wondering if there were Chinese medical texts from that era I could also read.
>>24879874Agreed. memorizing passages also helped me with reading in Latin word order and not translating in my head. Good practice all around
>>24880324Well said. I would go even further and say, given that two forms are better than one, three better than two, four better than three, and so on, that having a form corresponding to each individual word is better than having a form correspond to multiple words. In an ideally precise language, the pronoun and the antecedent would be one and the same.
>>24879578Pretentious Nigger.
>>24879920>>24880038By and large, no. It’s fine. You aren’t literate at all in Latin so the narrow expressions that are “weird” from Greek and Hebrew don’t really matter, and unless you want to really get into biblical exegesis it’s not ever going to be relevant for you. Terms like “awkward” are entirely subjective anyways and I have never seen it brought up seriously but more as a way to dismiss Late Latin in general out of hand.At the end of the day, it’s the easiest extensive authentic Latin for getting you reading.
>>24880077Yeah but that’s ultimately a matter of style and not of basic grammatical correctness, as is the case for basically all Bibles, and its influence on all following Latin can’t be understated.Many people might find more literal English bibles unusual in their wording but that doesn’t mean it’s “bad” English.At the end of the day, it uses the same most-common 2000 or so words that are absolutely necessary to read, and gives beginners lots of practice reading them. Sight reading the Bible will not harm your ability to read classical texts whatsoever, and it is the best way to read everything from the next 1000 years of written Latin (or even just native Late Latin which spans [roughly] 200-600.
>>24879578>I'm just a beginner at German.It is an ad hominem, but is it a bad argument if I guess correctly and it goes to my criticism of your faggy tone?
>>24878843>There's a place for simple languages [English], and there's a place for complex languages [German]. That's why pidgins were created for example [equivocating English to a pidgin]. You are free to use simple languages [English].And all from some wannabe chud who can’t even actually read German. You use a “simple language.” You cannot read your beloved “complex” language. You are bragging about the thing you study instead of actually studying it because it’s more about having an apparent intellectual stick to swing around than actual intellectualism.
>>24880601cottidie je mange les larmes de votre stupidité
>>24880663你这个天才,用谷歌翻译做的吗?
>>24880663J’ai aussi etudie le Francais a l’ecole, mais mon Francais est merde.Frankly, I dislike French for output because I find English to be substantially more precise. It definitely looks beautiful in writing/reading. Curious that you resorted to the next-most pretentious artificial tongue of continental faux-intellectualism.
Translation challenge:EasyLead him to me.The ship arrived safely.There are no pacts between lions and men.MediumEach of them was granted twice as many [acres equivalent of choice] of land than what was promised.By whispering through the leaves, [Pan equivalent of choice] let those who paid attention reach safety.If they hadn't attempted to secretly kill the senate, then maybe they would't have to be on the run.HardAfter the catastrophic storm which shattered the enemy's main port together with a large part of their navy, rumors have been circulating that the senate's most staunchly appeasive faction is reconsidering their cautious stance and may approve a preemptive naval assault while the main army deals with the land forces.
>>24880663Also, isn’t cottidie not even a French word. It’s “quotidien” right? I remember that much from my one year of French a decade ago.
>>24880706>>24880741Je m'en merde>>24880780;)
>>24880781j'ai gagne. Merci beaucoup mon ami.
>>24880781Switching into French without an elementary knowledge and assuming I wouldn’t know it was unbelievably ballsy desu. I respect that a lot just for the boldness of the maneuver. Icarus flew too close to the sun.
>>24880800and yet before the sun melted the wax upon his wings, he touched the clouds. CHKD
High average IQ in here
>>24880401There are lots of medical texts, I can find some if you're interested. But mostly they are diverse interpretations of regional customs rather than unified theories of medicine.
>>24878927Look at the readers on this page.https://www.fabulaefaciles.com/library/booksYou can get scans of the original books for most of these on Archive.org or Google Books. Depending on your level, I like Ritchie's "Fabulae Faciles." If that's too hard, I also liked "Julia," which contains stories from mythology/history. If I remember correctly, it avoids the subjunctive.I remember reading this collection of Latin fairy tales a long time ago. It's definitely easier than Fabulae Divales (by Avellanus) or Fabulae Gallicae (https://www.amazon.com/Fabulae-Gallicae-Peralto-Scriptae-Perraults/dp/9198509470).https://www.amazon.com/Fairy-Tales-Latin-Fabulae-Mirabiles/dp/0781813417
>>24879502thanks, extremely underrated postwhy are there more latinfags than greek patricians on /clg/?
>>24881792>a greek patrician>the anabasis filtered mekek
>>24881792>greek>patrician
>>24881859shut your filthy latin whore mouth, I’m greek respect your elders
I'm at chapter 10 of Athenaze and I'm feeling slightly overwhelmed now. Is it worth going to some other workbook like Logos to reacquaint myself with some of the grammar concepts and help with retaining vocab?
>>24882256yeah logos is more refreshing and even cooler id say, just keep chatgpt open for every sentence, grammar structure you don’t know.
>>24882271>just keep chatgpt open for every sentence, grammar structure you don’t know.zoom zoomwhatever you do, do NOT, under any circumstances, open a book
>>24882350it’s about time efficiency grandpa. No one is interested in looking the definition of a word on a book and taking 10 minutes, talk about losing interest and progress, students would soon look at it as a chore rather than as a passion. Even people back in the 19 century would gladly take the milisecond efficiency of an AI rather than indulging hours in books looking after a obscure grammar rule on optative aorist endings on page 1176.
>>24882356Then we agree. To paraphrase in your diction, do NOT look the definition on a book
>>24878156>mach es einfach hinter dichubi est baculum meum
>>24882256Just reread the previous chapters. If you have need additional supplements use Reading Greek instead of Logos.
>>24882584Oh, I guess I can do Reading Greek I have it downloaded too.What one should I start with? Is it Grammar and Exercises, Independent Study Guide or Text and Vocabulary?
>>24882256Did you do all the exercises?If they're not sufficient you might consider augmenting with Mastronarde.Logos won't do much for your comprehension at this stage that re-reading Athenaze won't, as the vocabulary is quite different.
>>24882601try to just read it and consult the vocabulary when you encounter an unknown word.
>>24882271>NOOOO IM STUCK PLEASE SAVE ME COMPUTERRetard zoomer your brain will be mush in a few years tops if it isn’t already. You will never learn greek
Proticus publica non operare videtur, nescio vero an cras revalescat (ignoscite verbi usum). Vereor quidem ne abfutura sit occasio ad verba commitendum ut cum collegis senecae epistulam haec hebdomadis tractemus solito more.
>>24883140* huius hebdomadae
>>24883140Laetemini, proticus iam rusrus operat.
>>24878389>I posted English next to it to show that in English it's ambiguousno, it isn't>You can start reading sections of the NT early due to its simplicitythe determiner has only one possible referent and cannot be misinterpreted
>>24882356>.No one is interested in looking the definition of a word on a book and taking 10 minutescur currunt athletae fessi, sed non in lecticis vehuntur?
>>24883090keksimus maximus
>>24882256https://libgen.li/edition.php?id=142693093https://www.open.edu/openlearn/mod/oucontent/view.php?id=113457
>>24883090imago infanda…
>>24882206>Greekoid claiming a Roman title
>>24883351No one actually understands English at all and it’s actually a lowly trade pidgin because this pleases my sensibilities as an >insert X ethnicity here with a non-global languageIt’s truly wonderful how our ancestors won so hard that Euros seethe so much, like residents of decrepit asiatic kingdoms reduced to servitude bragging about being more cultured than the Latins.
>>24883351in principle, you could say that the antecedent of its is llspi, but that would be absurd given the context. Clearly being able to read the NT after instruction from a beginner text implies that the NT is simple.
>>24883351>the determiner has only one possible referentWhich is what? Your quote contained "the NT" so I'm guessing you mean that. Nothing says the antecedent has to be in the same sentence. It seems natural that it would be "the NT", until you think about what he's saying. He's replying to this post:>Thanks but I just checked out Athenaze and it's not a natural method book, which is what I meant by "similar to LLPSI". Of course you need a little bit of information about the alphabet to get started with Greek but Athenaze from the looks of it goes way beyond that to where it's simply not a natural method book.The NT's simplicity is the same regardless of which method you use to learn Greek, and he's contrasting "the grammar textbook pill" vs LLPSI-type books/the natural method, and says that due to something's simplicity you can start reading sections of the NT early when using a grammar textbook instead of using LLPSI-type books/the natural method. So from that the stronger contender for antecedent of "its" is "the grammar textbook pill", but from being closer in the text "the NT" is the stronger contender, that's why it's unclear.
test.
>>24884608-icles
>>24884680what case is this
Is there something similar to Geoffrey Steadman's books for the rest of Plato's Republic?
>>24883305rursum abest! nuper conatus sum nuntium hodiernum immittere de Senecae nostri epistula vigesima quincta sed error nuntiatur
>>24885156Iam animadversi carus collega, Illud graviter fero, nescio quare non opus fungatur. Vero differendum esse puto nuntium ad hebdomadam proximam, usque rursum munus bene fungatur. Quid censetis ?
Does anyone know about ANY written down edition principles for Egyptian hieroglyphs? Things like direction of writing, glyph stacking, line breaks? It might be possible to derive the principles from a given edition, but there has to be something written down about it, no? Any major European language is fine by me.I've got to say, coming from Latin/Greek to Egyptian is quite a culture shock: scholars seem more concerned about translations, or, at best, transcriptions, rather than about editions of the actual hieroglyphic texts, and some of the "editions" seem to be simply drawings or photos of the monuments!(I'm asking because I want to create an Anki deck, but I want to practice reading the actual text, not repeatedly struggling to make out a grainy photo, so I'll have to typeset the hieroglyphs myself.)
>>24885169plerumque consentio, nisi fortasse cito redeat; huius hebdomadae epistula brevissimast igitur si hodie aut cras rediit possumus nuntium etiam brevissimum scribere, sin autem tardius ad proximam differendum
>>24880768κόμισόν μοι αὐτόνκατήχθη ἡ ναῦς βεβαίωςοὐκ ἔστι λέουσίν τ' ἀνθρώποις τ' ἀλλήλοις ξυνθήκηἀυτῶν ἕκαστος ἔλαχεν κλῆρον διπλάσιον τῶν ὑπεσχημένων κατὰ πλέθρονψιθυρίζων διὰ τῶν φυλλῶν ὁ Πᾶν τοῖς ὑπακοῦσιν ἔδωκεν τἀσφαλὲς ἱκέσθαιεἱ μὴ πεῖραν ἔλαβον τοῦ κρύφα τὴν γερουσίαν ἀποκτεννύναι, ἴσως οὐκ ἄν εἶεν φυγάδεςμετὰ τὸν πάγκακον χειμῶνα τὸν τἐπίνειον καὶ τῶν νεῶν τὸ πολὺ διέφθειρεν φήμη 'στὶ τοὺς τὰ μάλιστα εἰρηνικὰ φρονοῦντας τῆς γερουσίας μὴ ἔτι τῆς πρὶν ἔχειν εὐλαβοῦς γνώμης ἀλλὰ δοκεῖν ξυνψηφιεῖσθαι τοῖς ἄλλοις πρὶν ἀνορθωθῆναι τοὺς πολεμίους εἰσβάλλειν ταῖς ναυσὶ τῶν πεζῶν μαχησομένων κατὰ γῆν>mfw hard
I'm in my 3rd semester of studying Ancient Greek. I'm getting to the point where I'm hitting a wall. Where the information isn't being retained. Everyday we just look at massive chunks of texts and additionally do extra practice with optatives, subjunctives, every possible rendition of all of this, all coupled with constant vocabulary memorization + 3 other courses and their workload. I'm starting to collapse under the pressure and become extremely discouraged. I feel I'm not getting anywhere this way. I still look at a sentence and spend 5-10 minutes looking at dictionaries and indexes. Basic prepositions and particles I should know I keep forgetting as more information is slammed onto the curriculum with little time to digest it.I have been told that this grammar translation style teaching of Greek is criticized. I recently found the Ranieri-Dowling method. I don't have any time to do this now but over the Winter break I want to give this route a shot. I have the graduated readers though and all the paradigm spreadsheets.Did anybody else have the experience of the latter method opening far more doors? Or is this struggle essentially revealing that I'm retarded and in over my head? Any advice at all for someone on the verge of a total breakdown yet desperately wants to learn this language?
>>24885173this happens with cuneiform too. It's hard to find editions of the actual cuneiform text unless you can find photographs of the tablets. (Though there are plenty of books that have these, as well as handwritten transcriptions), but transliteration tends to be the norm. I imagine if the Chinese script had gone extinct, the same thing would be done. It takes a significant amount of work to read the actual glyphs, and so most people don't bother and go with the transliteration.
>>24885173There's also an important point that most of the texts we have only have one attestation (since they're monumental), and so textual criticism is impossible for a large portion of the corpus.
>>24885432>Everyday we just look at massive chunks of texts*Every day
>>24885432It's difficult to judge without knowing what are the texts you are given.In the first folder linked in the OP, go to "Reference and Textbooks" > "Greek". There you'll find the three part Reading Greek coursebooks. You can definitely learn Greek with those. The "Text and Vocabulary" copy in the mega is a bit crappy, so you might want to download a better one, but how difficult does some text from the first few chapters (pic. rel.) seem to you?
I'm elaborating on the second part of my inquiry, the culture shock, so if anyone knows anything about the first part, guidelines for editing Egyptian, please do post.>>24885445It's funny, these scripts (Egyptian, Akkadian, Sumerian, Chinese) are exactly the ones that have the feature of determinatives, so you do lose semantic information if you transcripe (unless there's special notation for them, like for Sumerian, I think). And with Egyptian, you're doubly fucked, because you also lose out on the vowels which might have disambiguated words.But I'll stop bitching now, it is what it is.
>>24885540Oh this is stuff I can easily translate through. There might be some minor vocab I need to refresh but I can pretty much parse through those with little to no references. What we are working on is The Symposium. It feels like a massive jump in complexity from Ancient Greek I and II that I took previously.
>>24885594>What we are working on is The Symposium.Plato is quite difficult. I'd suggest Xenophon, either Memorabilia or Anabasis depending on your interests. But if you are at the level where you can manage Plato, even with difficulty, you should be able to read almost anything. It doesn't really get much more difficult than that.So pick something you really like and go for it. Maybe pick a pdf from here that comes with a vocabulary and verb tenses:https://geoffreysteadman.com/At times it might feel that you are not making progress, but just by reading ancient Greek you are becoming better at it even if you don't immediately perceive it.
>>24885617NTA, but I heard almost the complete opposite: Plato being (depending on the exact dialog) one of the easiest Attic authors, after Xenophon and orators.Anyway, the advice to just read as much as he can, even if it's a good deal easier, is a good one.
>>24884684Nominative
>>24885594Does it feel like your biggest barrier is 1. Vocab 2. Reading fluency 3. Detailed parsing ability (explicit grammar)?Without knowing, it’s hard to give you advice. It sounds like you’ve done a lot of explicit grammar. Not to assume, but your reaction to a beginner reading text was “I can translate this” and not, “I can read this.”Dowling Method can work for very specifically supplementing your systematized knowledge of inflections, which can be hugely helpful. But you also might find texts generally less intimidating if you spent some time over winter break trying to actually read as much as possible, especially since you’re already getting a ton of explicit grammar practice through the curriculum by default (which of course you still need to keep up with, developing some basic reading ability can just make that a lot easier).Reading is the easiest way to acquire vocabulary, and the only way to develop fluency of reading comprehension, but anki can be incredibly helpful if used as a reviewing tool for words you have already read in context (ideally with the full clause or sentence put on the flashcard alongside the word itself).
>>24885432>I still look at a sentence and spend 5-10 minutes looking at dictionaries and indexes.Are you using a physical dictionary? Logeion might help a lot here. It’s a great website.Beyond that for Dowling, winter break might just not be enough time unless you really knuckle down. Even with Ranieri’s approach (audio and 100x per paradigm) the Greek setup is like 8 hours of audio. So probably it would be valuable to strategically prioritize the most important paradigms and to be rigorous about it. I found doing the same approach that I could clear a paradigm easily in a day if I wrote it down on a flashcard and did my 100x reps over the course of a long morning walk. Maybe do the article first.
>>24885624Plato's difficulty is kinda increased as soon as the content gets more technical so even if the prose is indeed fairly straight(and enjoyable) per se I could see the difficulty
Has anyone used Greek to GCSE? What did you think of it?
>>24887219Not yet, but it's one of the most legible of all the free downloads I've seen. Sadly copypaste isn't working though.https://libgen.li/edition.php?id=142693093
>>24887219It side-steps the issue of accents for the first few chapters by excluding them which may be helpful for an overwhelmed neophyte. The exercises are plentiful and not especially difficult so they reinforce the chapter material well. The readings are a little more challenging but have plenty of glosses and if you find them useful then there's a supplementary reader called "Greek Stories" by the same author. The textbook sequence introduces the aorist before the medio-passives which is worth noting if you're considering it as a supplement to Athenaze or Mastronarde. Participles are also dealt with early on. Overall it is quite effective although obviously limited in scope.
>>24878927If you're looking for easy mass reading material, this Latin teacher put together readings from Latin textbooks from history and mythology. Since they're from beginner textbooks, the grammar and vocabulary is limited.https://archive.org/search?query=creator%3A%22John+Piazza%22
>>24880768Adduc eum mihi.Navis feliciter appulit.Nullum inter leones hominesque pactum.Obtinuere singuli bis tanto iugera quam pacta fuere.Foliis susurrans Faunus aures praebentibus dedit in tutum se recipere.Si conatum non fecissent senatus occulte perimendi, fortasse non forent exsules.Post funestam procellam quae portum magnamque classis partem perdidit hostium fama est senatus factionem pacem maxime adhuc spondentem propriam retractasse sententiam pedibusque ituram in aliorum ut cum hostibus classe decernatur ante reparatas hostium res dum exercitus arma cum peditibus confert.
Why the FUCK does Augustus write like that? Genuinely want to cut my benis off when I read this shite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmMauT_GejAMedus stultus, quia cum pecunia domini irati sui suae amicae anulum emit cuius pretium magnum.
>>24887764Yes he's a cuck and his girlfriend is a stupid but at least she's going to Heaven and everyone else is going to Hell.
Is there any value to doing North & Hillard before Bradley's Arnold if I am self-taught? I hear Bradley is a bit too hard for many.
>>24880768Clarifying question: Is "lion" here meant in the sense of one who is so far superior that they cannot be expected to negotiate as an equal, or one who can't be trusted to hold to a pact because they're seen as like a wild animal? I don't think the literal translation would work very well either way in Classical Chinese, and I'm trying to figure out how to Woolseyize it.
>>24885173How are you pronouncing it?
>>24888562it's a (paraphrased) quote from the Iliad, in the original it's more about the inability to ever come to terms due to fundamental differences(men and lions, in the next line wolves and lambs, but I thought translating literally if anything would be easier with the deeper sense being implied
>>24888562Just say lion chigga. It's an idiom. I don't translate 春种一粒粟,秋收万颗子。as "reap what you sow" I translate it literally. That's the fun of idioms. They're visual. When people translate them for meaning over literalness you lose how a particular culture words things.
>>24888617If I were translating from CC to English that would be one thing, but if I'm translating from English to CC I want to try to phrase it in a way that an ancient Chinese might conceivably have actually said.
>>24888621Well, no Englishman would ever organically say "plant one seed of millet in spring, harvest 10,000 in autumn" so I think this is just an example of Oriental conformity on your part.
>>24888652The relevant difference is more so one of translation from NL to TL or vice versa in general. I'd be more willing to render natural Latin as awkward English than natural English as awkward Latin for the same reason.
Oh great I stopped Latin for half a month and now I feel like a fucking RETARDED SUBHUMAN WORTHLESS PIECE OF SHIT NIGGER going back. Oh well I stopped for like a full year before and got back anyway.
>>24888562>>24888621I would suggest translating it as 禽兽 then
>>24888415just try it, why do you need approval from strangers. grow a pair
>>24888701Then don't do that. What's your problem?
>>24888415I have only done North & Hillard, but I can definitely say it was worth it. If you have no experience with Latin composition, it starts you out from the easiest sentences. In addition, it has a very handy dictionary in the back. Get yourself a teacher's key because there are no solutions in the book itself.
How many languages, and which ones, would you like to learn?I'm talking about a realistic number. How many languages can you learn for reading?
>>24889485I think three is the maximum for most people. Four or five if you spent a significant amount of time on it.For me:English (native)Chinese (HSK6, basically C1)Classical Chinese (not terrible)Spanish (B2 when I was still actively learning it, probably more like B1 now)Uyghur (A2)I don't think I'd add any more languages
>>24889502If you chose European languages instead of Chinese and Uyghur, this list could be twice as long.
Is the grammar translation a worthy method of learning something like koine greek/church latin, or are there better ways?
>>24889567Cue another dozen posts retreading the same groundAnything is 'worthy' so long as you learn. Go study and read
>>24889485stupid question>>24889502stupid answer
>>24889485eh I don't think after Greek and Latin (plus english) I'll have either the time or the will to pursue others to that level especially if I also want to maintain those, maybe German because I'm already maybe B1/B2 in reading
>>24889509But I'm not interested in them so I wouldn't have any motivation to learn them so it would probably take even longer and more effort than Chinese >>24889617stupid reply
>>24889567I'm not sure the intent behind your question, but if you're looking for grammar-translation textbooks with a focus on ecclesiastical Latin, there is Scanlon & Scanlon.https://www.amazon.com/Latin-Grammar-Vocabularies-Exercises-Preparation/dp/0895550024Collins' "A Primer of Ecclesiastical Latin."https://www.amazon.com/Primer-Ecclesiastical-Latin-John-Collins/dp/0813206677The Henle course lacks a focus on ecclesiastical Latin, but it was made for Catholic school children. It would be especially suitable for students who plan to break their beginner studies over multiple terms.https://www.amazon.com/Henle-Latin-First-Year-Robert/dp/0829410260
>>24889485Reading/listening is a lot easier than speaking. You could probably get 5-6 languages to a good reading level. At that point maintaining them starts to become a full time job though.
>>24889617Takes one to know one! Wait...
>>24888415N&H gives you a lot of reps with easier material. BA gives you less reps with more difficult material. Which would provide more value depends on you. I went straight to BA naively thinking it would help me free write and think in Latin, which it didn’t do, but it did improve my reading comprehension.
>>24889567I find for Church Latin the formulas/vocab for prayers are so consistent/repetitive that you can basically just start committing stuff to memory day one.For a reading-based approach that will get you reading the Vulgate and similar Late Latin early, Latin by the Natural Method, by Fr. Most, is a really solid text. If you did one new lesson a day, he recommends in the teacher’s guide that students begin to read the gospels and genesis with a parallel translation after lesson 40. Even at 4 lessons a week, the high school pace, it would get you reading in about 10 weeks. It’s a misconception that it works “just by reading.” The difficulty curve is still very gradual. He glosses vocab, explains grammar explicitly, and includes english-latin translation exercises.Otherwise, the fundamental grammar and core vocabulary for classical vs. late latin are fundamentally the same, and any old grammar-based course would work fine.>>24889588This response is correct. The above is just my advice/opinion on what works best, but the best method is the one you do.
>>24889444Insecure niggerfaggot has a problem with asking qualified people for advice.
Ablative absolute kicking my ass boys. Struggling here.
>>24890116What’s so hard about it? It’s grammatically totally separate from the rest of the sentence so I never found it conceptually that hard, but I hear a lot of people say they found it really difficult.
Come to think of it, is the ablative absolute so difficult for many because they simply haven’t read enough prose that predates the 1950s?The “X having been Yed” (and similar) constructions are comparatively so simple to most everything else in Latin in terms of actual shit you need to memorize that its English equivalents being somewhat literary and maybe a little archaic seems to me to be the only reasonable culprit.Having heard so many complaints, when I reached it in my book I audibly sighed in relief at how straightforward the rule actually was.In short, maybe it would be easier to read the absolute if you got better at English.Dickens having been read, Caesar becomes the more straightforward for it.
>>24890134Right now it's the fact that there are the ablative words and then the words around which attach to those ablatives and somehow you're just supposed to know that they are for the ablatives and not the rest of the sentence even though they're no longer ablative but are genitive or something instead and there's ZERO indication from where they are in the sentence so a word can just be at the end of the fucking sentence and you're just supposed to know that even though it's a fucking accusative it's actually part to the ablative absolute. I wish these fuckers had been eradicated by the Gauls.
>>24890116Some book said it's the opposite of the dative.
>>24889485> How many languages can you learn for reading?Really interested in this as well, especially for people for who don't make language learning their entire lifestyle. I'm fine with crunch time while learning, but the issue is maintaining languages.There's a claimed rule of seven, but I've only seen it for (ill defined) overall fluency, and maintaining reading competence should be a good deal easier. Dead languages with a restricted corpus should also not fully count towards any theoretical maximum.> I think three is the maximum for most people.Too low, educated non-Anglos start out with two by default, many with three.
>>24890320Second part was ofc for >>24889502
>>24890155>somehow you're just supposed to know that they are for the ablatives and not the rest of the sentenceRead more, read and re-read until you want to blow your brains out because you’re sick of what you’re reading. it will become second nature
>>24890320This discussion is retarded. Having a proficiency enough for "reading" is totally relative, since the difficulty of reading a text varies a lot. There are probably texts you can't read currently in your native language, and there are texts you can read after a week's study of that language.
Old Irish resources? I feel like it would be a strong contender for my personal writing and resources.
>>24890155The consequences of telling students Latin is a magically logical system of incredible precision and not a language with all its idiosyncrasies just like English that you can only truly master with the inclusion of massive amounts of reading.
>>24890389Many Columbia students can't make sense of Dickens
>>24890515make sense of a dead white man who is literally named after a phallus? those days are over, chud
>>24890007>qualified people
>>24890726Fair.
>>24880538So does that imply that languages like Swahili with a dozen noun classes are better than Indo-European languages with only three?
>>24890389Depending on the language there are probably texts you can read without any study. I used to date a Brazilian who said who said when he watched movies in Spanish he understood almost everything save for a few words here and there. (He had some prior exposure to it, but I don't think he had really formally studied it at the time.)
>>24890870fag
>>24891841I bet he studies Ancient Greek, rofl.
ἀπαγέσθω ὁ βάρβαρος
Older theologian relative willed me their hebrew textbook and parallel Tanakh.I figure if I focus on Latin as my lifelong mastery language then maybe it wouldn’t be too much of a burden to do a narrowly focused biblical Hebrew study (i.e. literally my only goal is to work through the coursebook and Tanakh) since I only have one ~180 chapter goal text. I was thinking of doing something similar with a Bible or maybe even just gospel oriented Koine study, but I’d probably still want to work through Athenaze and/or Logos for that anyways).
If I got up to learning the future tense in Athenaze are there any texts that I have enough grammar learned to read through with the help of a dictionary?I heard people say Anabasis is an easy text would it be possible to read that?
>>24892259Can't think of a comfier language to dabble in.
>>24892394No one has ever called Hebrew comfy
>>24892385Why not pick one and try it instead of asking strangers for permission to read
>>24892741I just did, and I will do it again:Two cases (status, whatever), three tenses (aspects, whatever), sane writing system (when fully pointed), small vocabulary, familiar corpus mostly written in plain style, lots of resources.
>>24889485As many as I can, whichever I feel interested in
>>24892805Yeah exactly, I thought it might be a cozy pastime. Only one goal text, which itself is extremely formulaic and straightforward in its narrative sections, kind of just an excuse to read and reread the core of the Old Testament a lot for life. Gives me a specific, not super hard, and achievable objective and then I can read the funny jew sigils.
>>24892385Anabasis is easy-ish but not that easy, it's still full blown Greek with all moods/aspects/tenses, maybe some readersbut don't skip your textbook, finish it
>>24892385With an interlinear and chatgpt anyone can read Anabasis.https://archive.org/details/anabasisofxenoph00xenoiala
whats a good ancient greek digital dictionary with the biggest amount of entries that you got? Preferably a newer one.Looking for a digital dictionary files for example: Goldendict, stardict... files: .ifo, .mdx, .slob etc etc...
>>24891841No, I'm a girl.
>>24892805got a comfy resource for absorbing the point system?
>>24893628yeah, there's long been talk that the Tiberian vowels were better.Hebrew's problem is that it died; Aramaic did not die. So if you were going to reconstruct the pronunciation of Hebrew, Aramaic was about the best guess on offer. Especially in the west where western Syriac and, I think, Palaestinian Aramaic had already adopted a "Canaanite" shift of a->o.
>>24893649I was under the impression Tiberian is the standard
>>24892741It's fugly and not a poor ripoff of Aramaic. It's hilarious listening to other Semitic speakers speak and then let the "Hebrew" speaker go next.
>>24893738Clarify if you're speaking about biblical Hebrew or (((Hebrew))).Even Yiddish has a beauty all it's own that's missing with neo-hebrew.
>>24893738https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI9hbOC2zvkNot surprising but still a bit funny to hear how German neo-hebrew sounds. There's a clear sonic continuum from the Maghreb through the Horn of Africa and Iraq that it just clearly doesn't fit into, with Maltese being the only thing even close to as alien sounding because of how italianized Maltese is. It makes sense I guess since Yiddish split from middle hochdeutsch and many of the old people in Israel literally came straight from Germany/Poland.
>>24893756I've heard some Israeli Jews of Middle Eastern origin still say ח and ע distinctly from כ and א, especially older ones. That said, there are other instances of a language sounding like it ought to be from another family, like Romanian, which sounds quite Eastern European for a Romance language:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TiSKGRjYLs(Also, hearing Turoyo is interesting because I used to date a boy whose grandpa spoke it.)
>>24893767Romanian is sort of to Romance what Maltese is to Arabic.By the way, do any Heebs on here think the book of Ruth might be a good starting point compared to Genesis? I mean, sure, I know the words of the verses in Genesis like the back of my hand and all, but Ruth is so short the total vocabulary can't be more than like 250 words, so it could be a good chunk easier to get started.
>>24893553You are a man. Nothing you do or say will change that. Look at your shoulders, your waist, your follicles, your head. Before you type look down at your manly hands. You are a man.
>>24877858The only old language I studied is Old High German.
femanon a cute!
Please stop giving the foid attention. Literally can’t help her retarded fembrain but drop “teehee I’m a girl” hints in her posts to derail the thread and make it about herself.
>>24894081>>24894610seething incel is seething LMAO
>>24894610>“teehee I’m a girl” hints in her posts to derail the threadThis is the problem. Women can’t help but take advantage of how derailing they are to male social environments, and enough men can’t help but be derailed. But then it’s blamed on men as if it’s a one sided thing.>>24894617If you gave a shit about keeping the thread on topic you would just swap the gender when talking about your boyfriends so people wouldn’t assume you’re either a vagina or a man using his asshole like one.Anyways. Chapter XXVIII of LLPSI seems pretty easy pz becuz I red da gospel before. Getting very close to finishing coverage of “latin 102” on thelatinlibrary’s curriculum. We’ll see how the last 5 chapters go but then it’s on to Caesar.
Do troon Latinists really say “magistres”
>>24893628I don't understand the point of your image, and also how does shit like> םלחkeep happening?>>24893777Yes, Ruth and also Jonah are common beginner texts because they're so short.There's A Hebrew Reader for Ruth (by Donald R. Vance) for example.>>24894134Did you enjoy the three pages of literature that survived?
>>24888701start to reread everything you had read it's kinda like disk recovery on hard drives but for your brain
>>24895207Merseburg charms are all you need
Deus meus, in vita reale Latine collocuta sum! Satis erravi vocabulaque oblita sum, sed Latine collocuta sum!
>>24894134>>24895796But seriously, how does one get to study only OHG and not also MHG?
>>24896126Nunquam femina eris!
>find another Latin channel>he looks exactly like bald manwtfhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iGlB75GEcs
>>24896126dee mee* ac "realis" non optimum verbum hic est, melius sit "verus" (although the latins had no notion of "real world" as opposed to the virtual)
>>24897110> dee mee*Anon, I...
>>24897110At least you have the decency to nitpick word choices in Latin instead of just scoffing in English. I commend you.>>24896126You are both braver than I. I understood both posts though and got your intent 100%.
>>24896539because MHG itself isn't interesting. The conservative features are still to this day scattered across our dialects. I want the real deal
salvete, omnes. qualem est caelum ubi habitatis? pluvia ab oppido meo movet ad alia loca, et iam est māne nubilum, cum viri ambulant e homines domos, in ianuīs pulsant et meritam fenestrae substituentis vendere attemptant, sed ei indici sunt et ei foedi et cum matre mea ianuam nostram aperit unum eorum matris meae pugnum tangere attemptavit (i have no idea how to express the idea of giving someone a fistbump) et ea ianuam claudit sine verbis.
>>24898956salve paludis socie, utinam plueret hic, caelust imbricum nuper nonnunquam sed Iuppiter ridet nos simulans nubibus se imbre nos mox operturum quo maxime frueremur cum regio ubi vitam ago paulatim aridior fit in annosianuapulsatores diis secundis autem raro hic habemus paucis abhinc annis, nescio quam ob rem sed rariores visu sunt et religionem aliquam edicentes et instrumentorum venditores
>>24899012promito precari iuppiterum tibi; vis pluviam dum volo nivem. dum noster mundus in spatium in suum axem rotatur, et dies brevior facit, nubēs atrae frigidaque quae noster solemus nondum advenenit. calor mihi non placet, et maxime cum die gratiarum actionis appropinquat. sed coquere amo
it's extremely pleasing when you start to "get" latin order, without translating in your head. just wanted to share this joy with you all
>>24899280ah, multis abhinc annis ultimam vidi nivem comminus, etiam si propitius erit Iuppiter procellam quamvis parvulam mittens haud satis frigoris est his diebus planitie oppidana ut glacietur, possum tamen aspicere eam in summo montis abhinc aliquot milia passuum
>>24899452Yeah. I’m reading through Latin by the Natural Method casually as I finish up Familia Romana and it’s really pleasant how often I just understand the “scramble exercises” (reading with a randomized word order) basically effortlessly.
Is there anywhere online that has a full recording of the latin psalter? I’ve been doing a weekly 6 hour summit and I figured it could be a good way to grind Latin while I’m hiking.Alternatively, full-lengthy recordings of Latin poetry would be worth mentioning too.Or a full recording of the gospels in Latin.
just finished logos, feel dumb af reading real texts, advice for this?
>>24900631read more
>>24900283This guy bedwere records (in ecclesiastical pronunciation) the full Vulgate in order, and he's at Job now, right before the Psalter: https://archive.org/details/Vulgata_Clementina/
Current thinking is that I ought to write a lot to get the hang of it. What do you think? Reading it is one thing but understanding it is another. Current issue is that I don't know many words so I'm dictionarying everything. Anyway here's some rando prose I made>Julia in sedili apud fenestram sedebat, cum legebat et amoris aegrorabat. Feliciter epistola advenerat, portata nuntio. ‘Julia,’ inquit, ‘amo te plus quam vitam ipsam. Mox adveniam! Tibi centum roasa dabo, sed ante adveniam possum debeo vocare patrem meum. Hoc audito illa in pluviam respexit. ‘volo tibi nunc advenire, amica mea’ inquit. Deinde mater advenit cum cena caseo et vino. ‘filia mea, filia mea, quis te contristat, cur tristis es?’ inquit. Sed Julia non respondit, vertit et fugit ex atrio. >Quid facerat? Quintus fieri debebat princeps finem anni, quod eam potentem facturum erat.
>>24900681Perfect. Don’t know why I’d read anything from the Patristics onwards any other way, especially since the V was already in place centuries before.
>>24900836understandable, mistakes here and there with complements and whatnot
It is crazy to look at the number of people here who boast of their competence in latin, while there are only 3 regular posters in the porticus.
>>24901748> It is crazy to look at the number of people here who boast of their competence in latinlike who?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCArijnVL-Y>tfw you weren't made to learn latin at the age of 5 in a monastery
>>24901748I’m always glad for that reason when the actual outpooters post.
tam optimus meus sermo, ut magister me loquendo plorans se flagellet
>>24901748don't see that much boastingbut even beginner-intermediate anons(probably the majority) imho should output, I think it's underrated even if the target is ultimately reading
>>24901883me loquente*O serve baculum da mihi
>>24901748>resorting to passive-aggressive jabs in an attempt to get people to come to your shitty forumLet me guess - <5 posts this week?
>>24902093He deleted all my posts from his pathetic little "forum" because of my tasteful and learned joke, in which I likened Ranieri to Aeschylus. He whines that no one posts there, but it's even more "no fun allowed" than Reddit.
anyone got a interlinear septuagint ?
>>24902423Sacred-text-archive has parallel columns of eng-gre-heb-lat.
salvete iterum, omnes. cum tribus diebus ad diem gratulationis, ius coquere putavi, quia nunc autumnus est. tres librae pullorum pectorum emi et pastam farfellam. hodie helioselinum, caepam, et piper emere necesse est. ius gallinaceum emere puto, sed cubum iuris bubuli habeo. valete omnes, facite adfatim ius!
I hate this fucking shit language (latin) so much aaaa I hate it I hate it.
>>24903129τἐπιτυχόντος Λατινίζοντος πέπονθας ὠλίθιε
>>24903129so stop learning pussy
is Classical Persian worth learning?
>>24903266It's not different enough from modern day Persian for it to be worth learning by itself, nor does it have sufficient resources.Avestan and other ancient Iranic languages are more unique but lack content.As always it's back to the big five if you want to learn any classical language:Latin Greek Classical Chinese Sanskrit Classical Arabic (Fus'ha)
Officially 1 month into learning AtticI got to chapter 10 of Athenaze after 3 weeks however I decided to put it on pause as things were getting a bit overwhelming. I then decided to start Greek to gcse which has been good and has helped refresh my memory.in 3 more weeks I should have Greek to gcse finished in which time I might go back to Athenaze or maybe start Reading Greek or maybe Logos
It’s really remarkable to me that, for all the anki decks out there, there aren’t any that both A. Link their vocab to a specific textbook and B. Have actual sample sentences that come directly from the textbook.It would be so much easier to just blast through LLPSI if the anki decks for the vocab just had the sentence the word first appeared in somewhere on the card. Like 10x as helpful as just 1-word cards because you get 50-100 words per chapter, so 50-100 reps of sentences from the chapter would help with fluency and acquisition an amount that would be so helpful it makes me want to cry out of frustration. Sadly I only started using anki once I was already like 24 chapters in of painful grinding, so I already have the fundamental fluency down. Still, it has shot my vocab acquisition rate up substantially for the really dense mid-late chapters, but now that I’m a few chapters from the end (did 30th today) I don’t see the point in writing 1800 sample sentences down. Had I done that from the beginning I probably could have saved an immense amount of time/pain (or even more if someone else had already done it and uploaded it). Oh well, no use dwelling too much on wasted time, but if I ever teach a class on this shit I will be making my students collaborate on creating such an anki deck.
>>24903744>I cant believe no one has done this>no I wont do it>even in my fantasies others do it for me
>>24903744I'm sure some people have made decks like this for private use, but the copyright situation is muddy enough that uploading it is just not worth the potential hassle for most of them.
>>24903748I'm already done with all 5 but chapters and have cleared most of the deck. Why the fuck would I go back and write down 1800 sample sentences I've already read? I also wasted a lot of time doing handwritten scriptorium of the first 1/3 of the book so I have that vocab ingrained into my brain already [waste because inefficient relative to making anki sentences, not because it didn't help immensely].
I'm taking Latin at university right now, using Wheelock's Latin as the textbook, and I feel like I'm not actually absorbing any of the vocab or grammar long term. I cram and study before each quiz and do good on them, but then I forget much of the words and conjugations and declensions afterwards, and have to look them up when they come up again in later assignments. Realistically, I have a middling retention of everything I've already "learned," but it still feels very suboptimal compared to how my learning should be going in an ideal situation. Over our month-long winter break I'm thinking of going through a chapter of Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata per day, and seeing if that learning paradigm sticks with me better than the sort of drilling I've been doing for my class, and if it helps me intuit the language better before our second semester begins.
>>24903748Fuck you. I'll just do it starting from the chapters I haven't handwritten and maybe upload it if I ever finish. A friend is a few chapters in and will do the first half of the textbook so we can combine it.
>>24903822if you dont use it you lose it
>>24903822>It's actually REALLY complicated.No it fucking isn't, at all. Professors need to shut the fuck up, students should be reading, copies of Wheelock should be BURNED for the most part, AND WE WOULD LIVE IN PARADISE
>>24902514Just a nitpick but the gre language code is for modern Greek, not ancient.
>>24903514>Greek to gcsedont be a nerd and just go straight to the original texts get some interlinear go with koine if youre looking for something easier. the textbooks the all teach you the same things
>>24903285> It's not different enough from modern day Persian for it to be worth learning by itself, nor does it have sufficient resources.that's really interesting, modern persian seems to be weirdly terse in word length, if old persian is the same then it's a marked contrast to to sanskrit and their pathological compounding and composition
>>24890416Stifter's Sengoídelc is the most approachable entry point. Some supplementary stuff:https://archive.org/details/conciseoldirishg01pokouofthttps://archive.org/details/oldirishparadigm00strahttps://archive.org/details/thurneysen-a-grammar-of-old-irish
Evening gents I'm trying to find a collection of short stories I ready years ago. All i remember is that it had a story about a man who refused to help a immigrant girl and her mother then in his dream he has a revelation where he sees beings of light and corrupts then wakes up in horror. A few quotes such as "Then before the bear was on him he reached out and said knife!" And "Directly into the eyes of the snake." If anyone could help be out I'd appreciate it. Really wanna read that book again.
Do you ever worry that the past is too distant for us to be able to understand it?
>>24904496Why would I worry about having unanswered questions?
>>24904099Confiteor istam imaginem me risisse.
>>24877858I feel like writing fiction in Latin desu.
>>24903266Yes. There's 1000 years of beautiful poetry that's utterly untranslatable, and it's Indo-European and not that hard. Definitely easier than Sanskrit, Chinese, Greek, and Arabic.>>24903285What the fuck? There are tons of resources for it. Westerners have been learning Classical Persian for centuries, and in this age it's easier than ever.
>>24904877estne malum si ego libellum pictum iaponicum sensualem in latinum vertere volo?
It's overhttps://thecatholicherald.com/article/vatican-ends-routine-use-of-latin-in-sweeping-overhaul-of-curia-governance
>>24905541I think when people criticize “modernity” what they’re really criticizing is the abandonment of old and beautiful practices and traditions the second they become too hard.In that way, Israel is more traditional than the Catholic church because when they wanted the Holy Land they just went out and took it, and when they wanted everyone speaking Hebrew they just made solemn oaths to speak no other language around each other and now millions of people speak Hebrew natively.I can just imagine the 70 year old priest-desk jockey celebrating because Latin was “too hard” somehow after graduate education in it and a lifetime of experienceThis is why boomer attitudes are so disliked lol. Absolute disgrace.
>Translate into English:>δεκα ὡρας ἐκειἠμεν.What is ἐκειἠμεν? Google has literally nothing.
>>24905703are you sure that's not badly printed ἐκεῖ ἦμεν ?
>>24905719Ah, thanks. The spaces for some of the words has been weird in the pdf I'm using.
>>24880768召之来此。舟安抵矣。兽人间,无契也。各所赐之地倍于所诺。过叶耳语,鬼许专精人抵宁地。若未图杀诸侯,或未逸矣。暴雨毁敌港与舟后,谣多矣。诸侯求和之党,改其心志。或许以舟袭军攻敌。
>>24905541>but how will this help us make more Catholics?>Catholics?
>>24906198If there’s one saving grace of the whole fiasco that the Catholic Church turning into a money laundering operation for seculars it’s that it’s created this kernel of hyper-reactionary traditionalist activists. For example, the amount of non-priests that could speak Latin is probably higher today than it was in the 60s. Basically the magisterium’s total abdication of responsibility is, for better or worse, creating a really durable nucleus of far more fervent Catholics. Maybe we’ll get some Latin revivalism or something kino out of that like with the heebs.
>>24877875The two rightmost columns of the dictionary pages.
>>24877875I honestly can’t name a single Latin composition by a woman.
https://libgen.li/edition.php?id=136898262
>>24905541historia erat plenus populorum stultorum et adhuc. ecclesia hanc pulchram linguam transfugit. sunt fututores stulti.
>>24905814is the little circle a traditional equivalent of the western dot to express the end of a period or something more recently adopted imitating the latter?
>>24907593It was originally a mark to indicate a pause or break, but very much optional and most texts were written without them. The characters 兮 也 耳 can serve a similar purpose by showing where a clause ends. Only in the early 1900s did its use change to resemble that of the western full stopAlso it's a circle instead of a dot because a dot can be mistaken for part of the character
i guess i won’t read tonite or ever):
>>24905541The pontiff's Latin was pretty sketchy at this point anyway. But This is horribly disappointing. In penance, they must all learn Koine.
>>24908594>Koineso modern Greek?
>>24905541Pope (St.!) John XXIII is rolling in his grave right now.https://www.vatican.va/content/john-xxiii/la/apost_constitutions/1962/documents/hf_j-xxiii_apc_19620222_veterum-sapientia.htmlI guess he shoulders some blame for that whole "Vatican II" thing, but what happened? How did we get to this point?
>>24902423so a translation of a translation
>>24908762>How did we get to this point?Vatican II
>Reading Res Gestae>Damn this Augustus guy sounds pretty great>Mfw I fell for Augustus's propaganda 2000 years after the fact.
>>24908762Feels freaking amazing grasping the meaning of the paragraphs even if I’m making educated guesses on a lot of the vocabulary still.
>>24905507Jam quidam fecerunt.
>>24906379The Catholic Church has never been anything but a money-laundering operation (not in the past millennium at any rate) but this is rapidly straying outside the topic of the thread.
>>24908742No? Koine is the language spread by Alexander's empire, modern Greek is descended from it.
>>24909767The Vatican website doesn't have an official translation, but you can find an English translation on this page.https://veterumsapientia.org/vs-eng/
>>24910512I wouldn’t be learning Latin if I wanted a full English translation, but thanks, this could be useful as a way to switch tabs for vocab.
>>24910129illa opera gravem curam requirit, quae mihi iam impossibilis est.
>Legentibus is only 30% off this year
ΕΠΙΒΕΒΛΗΤΑΙhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqr-BlEvHnI
>Patrem Patriae"Father of the Fatherland" - Is there a word for whatever this is? It's the same word squared, kind of inside itself, but extending to a bigger meaning? Obviously, it's alliteration, but why is it so significant?
>>24912149pater has often an honorific meaning attached to it, not just in Latin, I don't think you can exactly translate this in one fit for all word, it can mean e.g founder but it's also attributed to people who technically didn't found anything but were of exemplary moral stature and such
>>24912149Father of the Nation is often a way it’s worded in English history books. George Washington was often compared to Cincinnatus, and calling George Father of the Nation was an intentional callback to the title.In a Republic, it’s basically the highest honor one can receive without outright being King, since monarchs are the “sire” of their people.
>>24912149Oh but my opinion on your question is that no, it’s not really the same word squared, because pater and patria are two totally different words. That may seem obvious, but I think in this case the obvious view is the correct one.
As a side note, unless you count (Caesar, Augustus, or William of Orange) Cicero and George Washington are the only non-monarch westerners to be honored with the title of Pater Patriae.
>>24912149maybe polyptoton. an example in english>My own heart's heart, and ownest own, farewell.https://rhetoric.byu.edu/Figures/P/polyptoton.htm
>>24912249>pater and patria are two totally different wordsMy goodness the future of the Classics is grim.
>>24912409Okay retard. Next you’re gonna tell me that Father and Fatherland are the same word even though they mean totally different things because Fatherland has “Father” in it.
>>24906975I think this book seems good. Someone said German and French have better books for classical languages than English does. Today you can use google translate or google lens to read a book like this, and you learn German while doing it.
>>24912887I ran that through google translate and it produced this.
>>24912887>>24912890no idea why these images are so grainy
I got stuck in Familia Romana on chapter 3, just lost the will to keep pushing, lost the flow. I partly blame my computer which is almost unusable now, I think it wasn't as bad when I started with Familia Romana, but also I think the book lacks structure, that probably contributes. Maybe using the Neumann Companion will be beneficial, haven't looked at it much. Or I'll switch to something more structured like Jenney's Latin or Latin for Today.https://leftychan.net/edu/src/1608528074592-0.pdfhttps://archive.org/details/jenneys-first-year-latin-1984https://archive.org/details/latinfortodayfir0000gray
>>24912901Neumann's Companion seems pretty dumb though. Structure and explicit instruction isn't to tell you "pay attention to x", "did you see x?", "it explains it there", this is some dumb shit. Well, I'll give it a chance before judging the book. I think Familia Romana is good for getting input perhaps, but it's not great for reviewing what you've learned, you need something more structured for that, so you don't have to reread absolutely everything multiple times just to refresh what you learned, especially when taking a break for a few weeks, or going back to previous chapters to refresh something you forgot.
>>24912921>so you don't have to reread absolutely everything multiple times just to refresh what you learnedthis is how learning happens anon
>>24912948No, that's why lecture notes are a thing, you don't record the lecture and then watch the entire lecture from beginning to end multiple times when reviewing it. There are more ways to read a text than from cover to cover. A textbook in Latin should not lack structure for reviewing and refreshing. A reader is something else. Familia Romana is really not much more than a reader.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Read_a_Book
>>24912921This is like how people look at lesson one of Latin by the Natural Method and see how simple it is and just assume the whole book is like that without taking the 2 seconds it would take to just skip to a later page instead of taking the time to write this retarded post. You should be ashamed of yourself.
>>24912980Stfu, I looked at more than that, I gave my first impression, and also said I will give it a chance before discarding it. Wtf is your problem? Give an opinion about the book or fuck off.
>>24912992Haha I was clearly was on the money with that
>>24906455because you are a disgusting nigger without any culture. Just to name one of many: Luisa Sigea,
>>24913019With what fuckface? I gave my first impressions. I'm fucking free to do that. Fuck off if you have nothing of value to say.
>>24912038What is the better method, greek bros?The Ranieri-dowling method or the Ranieri-roberts method?
>>24912887> Someone said German and French have better books for classical languages than English does.NTA, but I'm pretty sure he was talking about academic works, not basic introductory textbooks. Can only speak for German, but things like Menge's Syntax, Meissner's Phraseologie, Kühner's Grammatik.
>>24913119You’re free to post whatever dogshit opinion you want and I’m free to post that it’s completely wrong.
>>24913832Learn to debate better imbecile
>>24913839I haven’t debated with you at all retard. I just flatly denied your obviously stupid claim and you’re sperging out at me for being corrected. Textbook sign of Asperger’s or some other thing like OCD.
>>24912921>picrelatedY'know, when I bring up that feature creep is a thing in 19th century Greek studies, I get scoffed at. But here you are witnessing the macronification of Latin in real time as if Romans themselves wrote down vowel lengths and you people think this never happens.
>>24913908Learn basic logic
>>24912921The reason stuff like this exists in the earliest chapters is because it is covered in depth later btw. In chapter 1 the ablative is basically only used for the Italia/in ItaliA distinction, which is entirely intuitive. The ablative is covered in detail in chapter 6 IIRC.The book is full of systematic grammar treatment, grammar tables and detailed explanations. It just covers them in the order Familia Romana does so the author must have decided to hold of on putting in a full treatment of the ablative in the very first chapter when it would be covered 20 pages later anyways.
Crashing out in chapter 3 must be a record of some kind.
>>24913929Are you that same guy that always gets shit on in arguments and tells people to “study basic philosophy” or “study basic logic?” I think it’s been a while since you’ve done this but I think the person you argued with last time was me. If it’s not you then you just happen to argue similarly to a guy who is a usual fixture here.
>>24913914I dislike how pissy people get when a text published before the 50s doesn’t have macrons. Also, if it’s a pedagogical tool, mark EVERY syllable. Otherwise it’s just confusing for students unless you frontload explanations about where long/short syllables are, which Familia Romana leaves off until it covers poetic meter in the second to last chapter.
>>24913914Just look at sequence of tense “rules” in 19-20th century latin grammars. People need to justify their PHD somehow. Latin more than any other dead/dying language fell victim to the golden cage of academia, where it’s better to take 10 years making one grammarian than 3 producing 100 proficient readers/writers.
>>24913941Really, learn logic fuckface. I'm not joking. You need it. Zero argumentation skills.
Whoever creates the new thread uninvite that Swedish clown.
>>24914151>>24914151
