>Read NKJV or KJV>Read old Apocrypha removed by Calvies and Charismatics>Read about Luther's points on the Papacy>He was trying 'calmly' to engage with flaws of the Church>Heretic!>Forms Lutheran Church as a counter>Translated the Bible into German for you and me>Catholics copy him and produce Bibles for peasents>Also Catholics 'You say you (insert topic) but do you really?'>Jesuits, don't leave the Church or we will say bad things about you!Hats of to the tradcaths but your institution is full of Egyptian freemasonry with links to the Rothschilds and 13 satanic bloodlines
In hindsight, he was wrong.The RCC was doing fine being a primitive form of social services, even if they were skimming off the top.Then peasants were allowed to actually read the nonsense in the bible, and now they want to nuke the entire world to bring Jesus back.
>>24884871>Bible >Nonesense>NukesI'm intrigued about nuclear weapons directly mentioned in scripture and hymns to Jesus friend. I might also base that knowledge on the nearest jehovah witness about all of Christianity.
>>24884865Truthnuke
>>24884865>flaws of the ChurchHis problem was not so much the flaws of the Church, but actually the good qualities of the Church.There are plenty of people who denounced corruption and a lack of virtue in the clergy. Some of them became saints. In his own era, there were saints who actually went on to fight the corruption of the Church. And they succeeded. And went on to become canonized saints. And this was not even the only era that this happened. The Church's hierarchy becoming corrupted and saints appearing to fix them is not as uncommon as people might think. Decline and rise, decline and rise.Luther's problem was unironically heresy. He disagreed with good theology because he has scrupulosity issues.For example: suppose you have committed a sin, you honestly regretted it and confessed it to a proper priest. Your sins were forgiven. He had a problem in that he felt his sins were not forgiven. But Christianity is not a "feels" religion. Your feelings can be deceitful
This thread is terrible.>>24884928>He had a problem in that he felt his sins were not forgiven.What a ridiculous summation of Luther
>>24884865I'm Catholic but I don't hate Luther. I think he was just misguided and foolish, even if his intentions were good. I also believe that if he was brought back to life today and saw the current state of things, he would try to negotiate a reunion, under certain terms, of the Lutheran Church and the Catholic Church. The real giga satanic 'reformation' always have been that of Calvin and Zwingli and their troop of wicked footsoldiers
>>24885401I highly doubt Luther would think current day Catholic Church is worth a reunion.
Luther's aim was to reform the church, not split from it, and would be surprised to find that the split has went on as long as it has..Though as the poster above me points out, he'd ultimately find the current state of the Catholic church only affirming his convictions. Were he somehow able to return, he'd go ham on Protestants and Catholics alike.Christendom needs more Luthers, not fewer.
>>24885419>Christendom needs more Luthers, not fewer.Lol, no. His work has only led to schism and the rise of Christian liberalism.The ones who fixed the moral problems of the Church of that time were others. He just created some heresy based on poor theology.
>>24885434The problems of the Rome aren't limited to morality, and morality is a poor standard of judgment for matters of the Church.
>>24885405That's why I said under 'certain terms', try to negotiate and then give up if the only possible deal was not acceptable for his beliefs. Because the truth is: there's no place in Christianity in the coming decades and centuries for via media-like churches such as the Anglican Communion, the Lutheran Church and Methodism. The future in World Christianity is a rift, with Evangelical/Hyper-Calvinist Christianity on one side and Catholic/Orthodox Christianity on the other and nothing between but a great and deep gulf.
>>24885446The two things that make a reunion impossible, as things are today, are the Marian doctrines and the doctrine of Papal infallibility. All the other issues have some form of viable understanding and harmonization.
>>24885454Very few Evangelicals are Calvinistic at all, much less "hyper-Calvinist". Luther derangement syndrome.
>>24884865How did that work out?
>>24885446The theology of the Roman Church is far superior to that of Lutheranism.
Lutherans be like>You don't need a magisterium. It is easy to read the Bible and make up your own interpretation without any help. It is not a deep book, bro. You won't misunderstand things just because it is 1,500 years old and written in another language for another cultureAlso, Lutherans
>>24885454I drew a diagram for you.
>>24884865Catholic church is behind mass immigrantion.
>>24885473>>24885490My apologies for using the term hyper-calvinism carelessly together with Evangelicals. But Evangelicals and Calvinists are usually more aligned with each other's positions in politics, lithurgy and culture than Evangelicals are aligned with Lutheranism.
>>24885488Not all who defend Luther are Lutheran. Lutheranism has it's own share of massive doctrinal issues. Beyond that, your post doesn't even merit a response.
>>24885494Woah. I've never thought of Sweden and the UK as Catholic countries. Trully one does learn something new everyday.
>>24885498Famously Catholic Angela Merkel, as well
>>24885496The lack of a magisterium does lead to this anarchy.The Lutheran Revolution and its Consequences have been a Disaster for the Christian Race
>>24885498>>24885503Muddied waters. I think the poster's point is that Rome is one of the largest promoters of mass-immigration and multicultural idealism. Barely relevant to the discussion, though one of the most pressing issues in the West.
>>24885498Vatican bankers control the world economy, sweden is irrelevant.
>>24885505and the presence of one apparently leads to rank heresy.
>>24885498Not to mention that it was pushed on the US by the old WASP elite. The immigration reforms were voted against by more Democrats than Republicans because it undermined unions and labor and Clinton ran to the right of Bush on the border. Dems being open borders in a relatively new thing. The original push for open borders came with neoliberalism, Reagan did the largest amnesty in history for just this purpose, whereas Obama deported more than Trump in his first term (Trump having overseen a 13 year high in illegal crossings during his first term). Biden represented the first true implementation of what the far left of the Democratic coalition wanted and Trump's second term has been actually serious about migration whereas the first was basically just show.
>>24885510Don't make me defend Rome, fool.
>>24885508Top politicians don't give a damn about the Catholic Church.>>24885510Your forgot about the Jesuit super computer that stores the name of all Protestants.
>>24885517Of course not, that's why attributing our immigration woes to the papists is foolish.
>>24885511No, it doesn't. The protection of the Holy Spirit and the magisterium has made Rome resistant to heresies in a way others haven't
>>24885520Issues like Mariology and Justification aside, the magisterium places man and tradition above Scripture as ultimate authority, subordinating the Holy Bible as subject to ecclesiastical interpretation.
>>24885488>be me >live in rural Appalachia>choices for church are hyperlib church like this 50 minutes away or 20 different "conservative" Evangelical churches where Trump, a fornicator and glutton who admits he is destined for Hell, is worshiped like a prophet (I have even heard it suggested that he is the "John the Baptist of the Second Coming" from the pulpit and heard about another attempting to exorcise the trans out of a teen with his name).Modernity has eaten the Church. Lord have mercy.
>>24885508The Bible, in the portion that most concerns Christians, the New Testament, is not anti-immigration and most probably somewhat pro-immigration(that is, help the ones in need), if the immigrants are Christian. But the real deal is that the teachings of Jesus do seem to condemn actions such as closing the borders and letting the refugees die, however, it's the duty of civil authorities to ignore Christian religion if they want to save the racial demographics of their countries. Christian religion is not compatible to certain decisions the civil government has to make in order to keep a place liveable. It is what it is. There's no such thing as a completely Christian government or completely Christian ruler, and that's a good thing. What's not a good thing is some whacky independent Evangelical 'church' pulling out of their asses some interpretation of a random Old Testament excerpt to claim this or that is part of Christian doctrine. So yeah, the Catholic Church and any serious Christian church will be at least against harming immigrants but we need to ignore them in this case.
>>24885525No it doesn't. I'm not even Catholic but this isn't even what Catholics teach about the Magisterium. And notably, the Roman and Orthodox churches seem way more resilient against modernity and heresy then every other church.
>>24885525That's not true. From Dei Verbum:>10. Sacred tradition and Sacred Scripture form one sacred deposit of the word of God, committed to the Church. Holding fast to this deposit the entire holy people united with their shepherds remain always steadfast in the teaching of the Apostles, in the common life, in the breaking of the bread and in prayers (see Acts 2, 42, Greek text), so that holding to, practicing and professing the heritage of the faith, it becomes on the part of the bishops and faithful a single common effort. (7)>But the task of authentically interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on, (8) has been entrusted exclusively to the living teaching office of the Church, (9) whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ. This teaching office is not above the word of God, but serves it, teaching only what has been handed on, listening to it devoutly, guarding it scrupulously and explaining it faithfully in accord with a divine commission and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it draws from this one deposit of faith everything which it presents for belief as divinely revealed.>It is clear, therefore, that sacred tradition, Sacred Scripture and the teaching authority of the Church, in accord with God's most wise design, are so linked and joined together that one cannot stand without the others, and that all together and each in its own way under the action of the one Holy Spirit contribute effectively to the salvation of souls.
>>24885527There is no Catholic or Orthodox church anywhere close?
>>24885525The Catholic position is that people are not able to understand Christian doctrine in the Bible without the tradition. This is true even if you are agree that Catholic tradition is wrong. If you believe otherwise, then if follows that giving some Chinese person who is literate in English a KJV(without notes) and an English dictionary and letting this person to his/her own devices, they would come up with identical understanding of doctrine to yours after finising reading the Scripture.
>>24885517Richest banking families are from Italy and france, Catholic charities are just fronts for woke enforcers. Protestants can be woke but many of them are also the ones holding the woksters back, Protestants are no monolithic.
>>24885527Horrible, isnt it?>>24885530Just lol>>24885545Nobody claimed an Chines reader with only a Bible and a dictionary would end up with my entire systematic theology. Sola Scriptura doesn’t teach that Scripture is the only authority or that people don’t need teachers. It teaches that Scripture is the only infallible authority. People can misunderstand the Bible. But people also misunderstand the Catechism, papal encyclicals, and Church councils. If misinterpretation disproves Scripture’s sufficiency, it also disproves the magisterium, because the average Catholic still has to interpret magisterial documents.The real question is whehtr or not Scripture clearly teaches the essentials of the faith. Jesus thought so and even praised the Bereans for examining Scripture themselves.Scriptural perspicuity =/= everything is equally clear and we as individuals can go it alone
>>24885527It really wouldn't surprise me if something like Rastafarianism or Shia Islam came out of Trump's death. People won't accept it and those trying to control the Q movement will move to prophecy and there will be something like the return of Trump around which a new denomination is built.Even the secular fans have essentially religious faith.
>>24885558The most powerful country in the world is the U.S. of A. and their economy is controlled entirely be Jews. Not sure what some catholic bankers of vassal countries to the aforementioned nation in a continent in economic decline can do that is not approved and sanctioned by those Jews in America.
>>24885567Can you shut up about Trump's cult of personality, it is in no way relevant to this discussion, you mind-broken weirdo. Go debate catturd on twitter.
>>24885566>Just lolWhy? It's pretty obvious that Christian religion was not devised to protect the White race(or any race, even the Jews as some anti-Christian propagandists like to infer). Christian religion also doesn't give a damn about free markets, freedom of speech without danger to one's life, since you can always become a martyr. These are things we as modern people may want to protect and if we want to do so, we have to do it on our own accord and not trying to change Christian doctrine to fit these contemporary goals. The same goes for Catholic enviromentalists. The Bible doesn't care about mass extinction of animals.
>>24885586We get it, we're all christcucks and rolling over for the Jews. Thanks for your input.
>>24885566>Sola Scriptura doesn’t teach that Scripture is the only authority or that people don’t need teachers. It teaches that Scripture is the only infallible authority.The many Christian denominations exist because there's no consensus on what side of some doctrinal disputes biblical authority favors. Some interpreters point to bibical theme threads that run over many of the biblical books and therefore have more weight than a single verse that seem to contradict this trend. But then these threads are themselves result of someone's interpretation and therefore of some tradition. Were that bread and that wine really the body and blood of Christ? If so, in what sense? Why should I choose Luther's view on transubstantiation over Zwingli's opinion or the Catholic/Orthodox tradition?
>>24885589So your view is that real Christian doctrine teaches that races have the right to protect themselves against mixing and immigration? Please, make your case. And you clearly didn't get what I wrote.
>>24885603Why then should anyone choose the Catholic opinion? Appealing to interpretive disagreement doesn’t establish Rome as an authority. Catholics disagree with each other too, so if diversity of interpretation invalidates Protestantism, it also invalidates Catholicism.There was never has never been any one unified, unanimous interpretive consensus in the church. The 1st and 2nd centuries were full of serious theological disputes within the Christian community. >>24885608Bruh, you seem to be arguing that Christianity is not conducive to preventing the inter-mingling of species. If you want to debate that make a new thread.
>>24885571Jews are allies of Catholics, most of the banks in America are based in new york and are either run by Italians or founded by then, Bank of America, wells Fargo are good examples. Protestant like Episcopalians are allied with Catholics not with baptist hicks.It's simply not controlled by some one group fully, there are many groups and Catholics are the most significant.
Never heard of a good explaination for the nigger problem in these books.
>>24885545>If you believe otherwise, then if follows that giving some Chinese person who is literate in English a KJV(without notes) and an English dictionary and letting this person to his/her own devices, they would come up with identical understanding of doctrineThey will only understand it if they are saved and therefore are able to receive the guidance of the Holy Spirit.Paul specifically says that "the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:14). So an unsaved person won't understand the Bible no matter how much they try to study it, regardless of whether or not they're in a cult like catholicism.
>>24885608>So your view is that real Christian doctrine teaches that races have the right to protect themselves against mixing and immigration?It never says they can't.
>>24885623>Catholics disagree with each other too, so if diversity of interpretation invalidates Protestantism, it also invalidates Catholicism.The position of cults like Catholicism is not an intellectual or cognitive position, it is "whatever those people say." If they started teaching a new heresy tomorrow, it would become their tradition from that day forward.
>>24884865>>Catholics copy him and produce Bibles for peasentsNope, luther copied the catholics
>>24885513>Not to mention that it was pushed on the US by the old WASPRome on the potomec.the rot runs deep
>>24884865>my interpretation of the Jewish mind virus is correct!>here, I made it so it can infect your brain directly by letting you read itHe was a retard for not working to destroy it all.
>>24885623>Why then should anyone choose the Catholic opinion?For starters, I put Eastern Orthodoxy together with Catholicism when it comes to this point, so to not make you think I classify the Orthodox at the level of Protestants. These (Catholic/Orthodox)churches are most coherent to the spirit of the lives of New Testament figures and their words and early Christianity. And I consider early Christianity to span from Christ's ministry to c.300 A.D. Church fathers had their disagreements, buta church cannot be a church without being at least partially guided by the Holy Spirit so it becomes a point of faith that the correct side won these early debates, after all, they also stamped out a lot of opinions that Catholics and (most) Protestants alike today consider heresy. Returning to the main point, Protestants (usually) reject oral tradition, celibacy(as a positive thing, not as a biblical mandate), asceticism, but it's clear that the New Testament takes a positive view on these practices. That alone makes me suspicious of Protestants. Since Luther they try to inject the current day's morals to early A.D. mentality. How should people trust their interpretation of scripture when they often are guilt of anachronism? Calvinists would have a hard time convince me that Jesus and the Apostles were teaching convoluted predestination to Judean and Roman commoners, servants and slaves. The issue of veneration of Saints is an interesting one, I believe the Catholic/Orthodox view that it arose from the understanding that in the Book of Revelation the departed saints are conscious and with the angels and the Trinity. And that really it can't be idolatry if the person doing it does not consider these saints to be deities or in equal to any Person of the Trinity. And think about it, that being idolatry would be the biggest breach of Christian doctrine but the churchemen of the periodo fought over matters considered small for a modern audience and yet the first kind of revolt against veneration of saint began in the 8th century A.D., a period already removed from early Christianity. Those kind of problems make me lean decisively towards Catholicism.
>>24885603>>24885623>Everyone disagrees in some ways >Therefore, the total collapse of the teaching authority that God established with the Seat of Moses and which stood as a pillar of the Church for 1,500 years and which has led to things like:>>24885488>>24885527>And pic related, and 30,000 different denominations, and every church and island onto itself, and pastors having absolutely no authority, and everything basically coming down to "every man a pope in his own mind," i.e., liberal individualism over obedience to Christ, and the Mysteries are a joke or empty, optional symbols, and it's ok to mock the presence at the pulpit... this is all basically the same thing as inter-Catholic and Orthodox debates.>Implying.
>>24886407isn't the fact that there's 30k denominations less an indictment of luther than it is of the catholic church? i mean, if you guys are the one true church with superior theology and doctrine you're doing a really bad job of making the case.
>>24886143Luther is Catholic>>24886469The Roman Church is slowly becoming more and more Lutheran in its teachings. Some will deny this but any honest theologian can see that it is the case. Give it another 2 centuries and the two will become indistinguishable save for the Marian Dogmas
