>According to Christian belief, man exists for the sake of God; according to the liberal church, in practice if not in theory, God exists for the sake of man.How did a man born only 20 years after the end of the Civil War so accurately predict and describe the ailments of the 21st century church?
good book
>>24912383the corruption was already in place, 1880s especially.
>>24912383>founded the orthodox presbyterian churchi dont get it. was he orthodox or presbyterian?
>>24913907Christian orthodoxy =/= Eastern Orthodox
>>24913907>was he orthodox or presbyterianPresbyterian. The Christian View of Man and What Is Faith? by Machen are also excellent.
u down with opc? yea u know me
>He opposed the establishment of a federal Department of Education, suggesting before a joint Congressional committee that government control of the children was the ultimate sacrifice of freedom>He was not against locally operated public schools per se, but feared the influence of materialist ideology and opposition to higher human aspirations.>He also opposed Prohibition.>He was opposed to a foreign policy of imperialism and militarism.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Gresham_Machen#Religion_and_politicsHe seems alright to me.
>>24912383The issues with the church were already happening; see Kierkegaard and his attacks on the Danish Church
>>24914818Based
>>24914141>some modern liberal "scholar" with an axe to grind accuses him of being gay, his work is largely discredited as pure speculation with no foundation in reality, yet the literal who's claim gets a prominent section in the man's wiki page They come after all of our heroes eventually, don't they? It's all so tiring
>>24912383Conservative churches also use God as just a way to enforce their moralityVery few Christians are living on biblical principles
>>24912383they don't even know what a christ is.https://www.bitchute.com/video/biSY2OEAuOVz
>>24916313Who is they? Nobody's going to bitchute to listen to some deranged vlogger. Use your words.
>>24916258These are the same 20th and 21st century "scholars" that claim Moby Dick was homosexual erotica and subversive social commentary and not obvious theological allegory.
>>24912383Machen was great. The modern OPC would excommunicate him though because he opposed racial integration. I was baptized in the OPC and later left, there is no room there for anyone who opposes the Post-war consensus.
>>24916524Not a big James White fan, I take it? lolI assume Machen would've been vehemently opposed to the current Christian Nationalism movement. I sympathize, though, as someone generally opposed to multiculturalism and integration.
>>24916557Not a big fan of White, Wilson, or Moscow anymore. As for CN, I'm definitely more in line with Stephen Wolfe, and the Ogden guys. The OPC was always a weird fit for me because I didn't appreciate Van Til, I was patriarchal, and I was a bit too vocal in my defense of Michael Spangler. I'm happier now, lol.
>>24916637Where did you land? I feel like Presbyterians like you end up in Baptist churches due to their polity affording more varied points of view.
>>24916671I'm at an independent Reformed church that is paedobaptist and is looking for a denomination right now. I hope it remains independent for now because it seems to be working.
>>24913907Confessionalism
I will NOT allow you to turn /lit/ into a reformed Presbyterian board. This is a strictly Vedantist forum.
>>24917371drop dead, whore
>>24917371It is predestined, Rajesh
>>24912383if by "God" he means the dogma of the church, in practice if not in theory, then he's in direct opposition to Jesus>The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath
>>24917371>turn /lit/ into a reformed Presbyterian boardI wish.
>>24917454nevermind, it sounded better in my head
Good audiobook. https://www.audible.com/pd/Christianity-and-Liberalism-Audiobook/B0064SLRRW
I'm Catholic.Due to this thread I started reading about this guy and the American Protestant conflicts and you guys really had worse problems than us with modernists, uh?And what kind of retard thinks science can prove or disprove theological issues? Theology deals with supernatural. The virgin birth is SUPPOSED to be supernatural rather than natural. How can anyone be enough of a retard to claim science disproves the virgin birth?
>>24918557the fact that there is no real ecumenical lobby for conservative Christian interests in America is a real shame.
the liberal churches have deeply corrupted the christian theology to make it look as if God served the man. This is utterly false and is a poison brought to you by the ideas of the age of enlightenment, Ignore it, anon
>>24918802Yeah. The ecummenism we get in the Catholic Church seems to be with semi-Atheist Liberal Lutherans, rather than with the more pious groups
>>24912383Reminds me of Spurgeon, and he was preaching this in 1888>I learned, when I was a boy, that the chief end of man was to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. But I hear now, according to the new theology, that the chief end of God is to glorify man and enjoy him forever. Yet this is the turning of things upside down.
>>24916637Where does one start with Van Til? What are the most essential works of his?
>>24912383Meaningless niggerbabble
>>24921708*tips fedora*
>>24912383>the ailments of the 21st century church?What makes you think this problem ever didn't exist?
>>24921716They were right.
>>24921721M'lady
>>24921701Most people are introduced to Van Til through Bahnsen. Van Til's apologetic method is getting more pushback lately from the younger generation who are more interested in historical Reformed Christianity.
>>24921754Saying "M'lady" is based and christpilled
>>24921767Do you suggest someone else to counter Van Til? I have no experience with apologetics or systematic theology, but looking for a starting point. Was thinking about starting with John Gerstner.
>>24921791Toward a Reformed Apologetics by Mathison abd Reforming Apologetics by Fesko are a couple recent ones that come to mind. Fesko is pretty accessible.
Reformed Forum did a good series on Machen.https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLt5DwS6MFoBCvNDSLEW8WSLHHdUAKxOoF
>>24918521Nice. There's some versions on YouTube, too, I've noticed
Ligonier is mailing out free copies of this Sproul classic.
>>24924606>What is heresey invented in the 16th century
>>24912383Great quote. Thanks for sharing, anon. Blessed Advent to everyone!
>>24924908you, too, brother. i'm reading this advent devotional now. 31 short daily readings for december written by reformed theologians.
Based and Reformed-pilled
>>24926220I have that in calfskin leather. It's very nice.
>>24912383I know this thread is about his opinions and not mine, but my understanding is that both beliefs are wrong. God made the world, He gave it to us, and then he stepped back and stopped interfering. We are free to do whatever we please but also we are on our own.
>>24917371/lit/ and /his/ converted to Holy Orthodoxy, like everyone else these days.
>>24918557The natural/supernature distinction and the hard grace/nature distinction are themselves modernist heresies though. The problem is many people upset about 1880-2025 want to merely return to 1600-1750, when the rot had already set in. Better to return to 600.
Any more good books about the reformation?
>>24923878https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1z7Rx_DdAU
>>24928446I'm reading 2000 Year's of Christ's Power church history series, but I also want a good title that focuses on the Reformation for afterwards. How were the two you listed?
>>24929232Years*
>>24912383i have a ton of reformed literature. i should buy a kobo instead of suffering a smartphone.
>social construct exists for made up thing, or made up thing exists for social constructso this is the power of ... uh, whoever this dude is?
>>24929232>How were the two you listed?They are excellent, especially the Luther biography. His overview of Christianity is also great, I feel strongly that people on this board would really appreciate his prose.
>>24931068I began reading "The Church of Our Fathers" by him, and you're right, he has great prose. Thanks for the suggestions.
>>24928446>good books about the reformationDiarmaid MacCulloch's The Reformation
>>24921767>from the younger generation who are more interested in historical Reformed ChristianityRedeemed Zoomer?
>>24932537That little annoying Jewish convert is half-retarded. He'll probably end up a Catholic.
>>24912383All of this had already played out in other cultures with other religions, and even within Christianity itself. >The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
>>24932665what an authoritative and enlightened sentiment
>>24917242>paedobaptistThere's a lolicon christian sect? Where the hell do I sign up
>>24917371>Saaaar you must read the Vedas>Saaar read your Guenon and Evola>>24918557>you guys really had worse problems than us with modernists, uh?Considering there's an out for American Prots meanwhile your "church" has been run by satanic communists for ove half a century, I would say that's incorrect.
>>24921708You already got BTFO in last weeks thread when you tried to argue against Feuerbach being metaphysical nonsense, fake materialism
>>24912383>forward by Carl TruemanNo one has mentioned him yet so I'd just like to say he's also a very good read/listen.
>>24932860>foreward by Rod DreherThe decline of the intelligentsia in two images
>>24916258Go ahead and argue against them in the talk page of the article, anon. Make the edits yourself. The reason the trannies win is because they put the time and effort in that you don't.
>>24914141Thanks to discovering OPC in this thread, yes!Unlike all of those false (((denominations))), OPC is 100% 1 Timothy 2:12 compliant.
>>24933513The RPCNA is also decent, I hear, but I live less than a mile from an OPC, so I never felt the need to check them out. I also live very close to a Heritage Reformed Congregations church that does exclusive psalmody and still uses the KJV. They apparently share a church with Reformed Baptists, so their service is from noon to 1pm, with an hour break for a communal lunch, then another hour from 2pm to 3pm. That sounds nice. I don't know if it's standard, or just part of their trying to cram in as much as possible since they're presumably no Wednesday or Sunday night study meetings.
>>24933513>>24914141Looks interesting but they cucked and support the great replacement
>>24933968i have not known many non-mainline presbys to be supportive of mass immigration, and I don't think the OPC is supportive of it either, but if you're referring to them believing that the gospel is universal, and open to all men, regardless of race, then yes... but even i as a racist and and person desirous of a majority, if not wholly, white europe and america admit that is the case.
Actually a pretty good read.
>>24912383its like how Feuerbach saw religion as projections of mankind, its just that his line of thinking was the logical conclusion of liberal theology.
>>24935071There are modern expositions and commentaries on it that are pretty good. G,I. Williamson's is a good one, Truths We Confess by R.C. Sproul is the one I recommend to the uninitiated.>>24935270What compels a man to incessantly post about Feuerbach day in, and day out, for over a week? Babby's first philosophical introduction to atheism? At least it wasn't Sam Harris, I guess.
>>24932637He's married though. Can't say the same for a lot of people here, even myself. God bless him.
>>24935292Oh yeah, I suggest The Three Forms of Unity (The Belgic Confession, The Heidelberg Confession, and the Canons of Dort) for further reading.
>>24935292I'm actually a man of faith i was just correlating concepts.
>>24935309There are a hundred thousand single young (and not-so-young) women seeking husbands in churches around the country. You're not going to find a wife on 4chan. If you can hold down a job, attend worship services once a week, and not act like a total bastard for most of the time, you'll have no problem finding a wife.
>>24935314You are a sick and manipulative person and your methods are transparent enough.
>>24935327But enough about liberalism and communism
>>24935322>find a wife on 4chanBold of you to assume that was my intention in the first place
>>24935292>G,I. Williamson's is a good one, Truths We Confess by R.C. SproulThanks, I'm trying to gather important reformed texts.
>>24937234I'll upload and share some of my 20gb eBook horde this evening, or tomorrow. I started an "essentials" folder but it's already ballooned to over 2gb.
>>24937526>essentials folder is 2gbeither you've got some pdfs in there, or you're judging a bunch of books to be essential before you've even read them
>>24927155Too oriental for my taste. I found a little while ago my beliefs are Christian-Hindu syncretism from engaging in personal reflection. Just not in a hippie-dippie 60s way.
>>24937694Either way, being extremely generous and saying the average size of an .epub file is 5 whole MB, there'd still be 400 books in that folder. That's simply way too much. It needs to be trimmed down drastically, even if he's read them all. In reality, no essentials list needs to have more than around ten books.
>>24937694>>24937721Yes, you're right. By essential all I really meant that I was thinning down the herd. As it stands there's probably two decades worth of continuous reading in that folder
>>24937773what I really meant was that I was thinning down the herd.*There's about 200 theosophical works totalling around 400mb, but I also included the miscellaneous fiction and non-fiction works that I wanted to keep handy in that figure. The rest of the 20gb mess is going into deep storage and probably, if I'm being honest with myself, never being looked at again.
>>24932923whats wrong with dreher?
>>24928446Justo Gonzalez
>>24912383>According to Christian belief, man exists for the sake of Godgonna need chapter and verse on this utterly outrageous statement of opinion
>>24940193That is what every good Presbyterian child learns first.Shorter Catechism Q.1.>What is the chief end of man?>Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever.Pro. 16:4>The LORD has made everything for its purposetaken together with such passages asand 1 Cor. 6:19, 20>Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.1 Cor. 10:31>So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.and Romans 11:36>For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.imply man exists for the purpose of glorifying God.I can see how Machen's quote may be misinterpreted, and "sake" may be a poor choice of words there, but he likely intended what I said here.
>>24912383Christianity is basically Pesher Midrash of the OT mixed with middle Platonism and Merkebah mysticism.Paul's interpretation of OT prophecies regarding events in the 1st temple-Persian era are so bizarre I don't know how I'm supposed to take the religion seriously.
>>24940389Elaborate for us gentiles.
>>24940453No.
>>24940479>can't explain his own beliefs>can't even quote anything
>>24940527I figured that if the goyim are so clever they should be able to use google.
>>24940453he's just saying christian interpretation doesn't align with talmudic interpretation, which he prefers
>>24940193According to Christian belief, man exists to glorify God and enjoy a relationship with Him forever.
>>24940534>google it!Reddit response
>>24937526Here's a portion of my theology folder. Most of it is Reformed, but there's some other denominational stuff mixed in, as well as some fiction and non-fiction. Works range from classic to contemporary, excellent to cringe. Also included is a folder with titles suggested from a recent thread on Medieval mindset. Enjoy. Hopefully some anons will benefit from it.https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=kZGC9C5Z5UaJ3LKI7tY4NCXIQryuSQXOv4V7
>>24943018Switch to list view at the top right of the page to more easily select which titles you want, if you're not planning on downloading the entire folder.
>>24912383>How did a man born only 20 years after the end of the Civil War so accurately predict and describe the ailments of the 21st century church?Liberalistic thinking has been in since the 19th century.
>>24943018>(lol)kek
how does presuppositionalism and classic reformed apologetic differ?
>>24943639presuppositionalism emphasizes the necessity of starting with Christian presuppositions, while classical reformed apologetics relies on rational arguments and evidence to defend the faith
>>24943018Thanks, might try reading some Bavinck in the near future.
>>24937526hoarding books before AI ruins everything and anti-piracy measures kick in is a really good idea
>>24912383i dunno
