Careful OP, petersson doesn't like pasta, the carbs would literally kill him

>>24916406
Fedoras REEing and reeling. Moist neck beards undulate as their flubber quivers.

>>24916435
Truly the Trump version of public intellectualism.

What's old Memerson up to these days?

>>24916458
>a hero no one saw coming that we don't deserve
Based.

>>24916484
More like a tacky and garish public circus performer that the retard population confuses for the real deal

>>24916406
Could you explain to me how saying "I am a Christian" would trivialise anything? My guess is that he genuinely will not lie because he thinks it's wrong, so he can't explicitly say that he believes that jesus rose from the dead etc etc.

Why is he like this, he is obviously atheist.

He sold out his soul when he took the paycheck from Dailywire

>>24916536
true&real

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>>24916536
>We will probably never see him posing with his walls of Soviet art again
Remember what they took from you

>>24916550
Its kind of funny because Zizek does the atheistic Christianity thing from the other side and also collects soviet art

>>24916528
Fedora atheism is just going to dismiss the Bible out of hand, rather than treating it as, at the very least, "broad strokes" history that may or may not have had analogies and exaggerations.

>>24916459
currently feigning sickness to avoid having to carry water for ben shapiro and alienate the fledgling fanbase he was able to retain after repeated high-profile public meltdowns, and neurotic outbursts

>>24916406
Peterson is counting on noone pointing out to him that Christianity is not like Shintoism, or some other religion that is mosty about ways of life. Fundamental and almost unique to Abrahamic religion is the idea that what matters most is believing, sincerely, in the claims it's making. The Greeks cared about honouring the gods, but placed far less emphasis on, in one's own mind, believing certain things.

For a Christian, what makes 'murder is wrong' true is that God says it is so. For Peterson, it's true because such a law has instrumental value for the kind of society he wants to live in. You see this in his misunderstanding of Nietzsche - he claims that Nietzsche believes that "truth serves life", and takes this to mean that 'useful' beliefs are truer than, say, 1+1=2. You'll notice that he says that certain Bible stories are 'truer than true' and he means that literally, for him their historical truth is secondary to the supposed utilitarian value of their moral. Incidentally what Nietzsche really means is that what we believe is a will to truth is in fact an elaborated will to power, this is in a subtle way the exact opposite of what Peterson claims - truth in a non-moral sense very often is harmful to life, N explicitly states in fact that the value of a belief to life has no bearing on its truth whatsoever.

In short - when Peterson says that Christianity is true what he means is that it's pragmatic for most people in his ideal society to believe in it. He can call that Christianity if he wants - but nearly all sincere Christians would hold that he is damned simply because he doesn't endorse the Nicene Creed.

>>24916518
>words words words expressing seethe seethe seethe
Lol

>>24916521
The people with whom he's debating trivialize the concept of being Christian and want to frame his beliefs via a simplistic caricature he refuses to adopt. This frustrates ideologues and elicits a reaction wherein they reveal the strength of their emotional investments alongside their ignorance.

>>24916406
Matthew 5:37

King James Bible
But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

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>I AM A CHRISTIAN
>I AM ACK-

>>24916655
Or, the people with whom he's debating refuse to over-complicate 'being Christian' to hide what is in essence a pragmatic argument.

>we live them out psychologically. Every day.
He got this from NEETche.

>>24916406
It's a history book but it is warped and twsted by trannylators and priests

>>24916677
The bong had to hide his grin, löl

>>24916677
Christianity when from being so true that if you questioned it, the church would kill you. to, laughing stock cry babies who cant even define what a Christian is.

holy cope, talk about a downgrade! if they as a group had any honor they would have committed mass seppuku

>>24916683
>I'm filtered when people don't let me tell them what their arguments are
We know.

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Lol, remember Nu Atheism?

>>24916406
JPB the most die hard post modernist of our era.

His distaste for postmodernism is hilarious since his whole method of rhetoric is just the postmodernist handbook.

>>24916713
>using that slogan in Poland

>>24916718
He rejects the conclusion that all interpretations are equal but not the idea that things have multiple interpretations.

Is this nigga still dying from literally not cleaning his room?

>>24916713
Shouldn’t “Nu”atheism be the current LARP that we need to pretend to believe in religion to preserve conservative mores?

>>24916732
He went into the belly of the whale (a basement) to rescue his father (it was his father's basement he was cleaning) and is currently undergoing metamorphosis due to the adventure.

>>24916738
That's just a fedora "no you" which is what they always end up falling back on when the chorus of laughter is too uncomfortable for them to bear.

>>24916608
>Peterson is counting on noone pointing out to him that Christianity is not like Shintoism, or some other religion that is mosty about ways of life.
He's probably quite clearly expecting on it, so he can't se he's Christian because he knows Christianity isn't like that.

>He can call that Christianity if he wants
The point of OP is that Peterson doesn't accept to be Christian. Retard

>>24916406
>the Bible is a hyperlinked library of wisdom across centuries. It’s not a book you simply “believe in.”
Trivially true but the Bible's power has come from the fact that many people believe it to be God's infallible word - if it's not that then why not pick some other fiction? Being honest the Bible is not especially wise compared to other works written before and after it.
>literalism is a modern distortion. Stories operate on multiple planes of reality.
False, Christians have always believed Jesus rose from the dead, that he thinks that story is a good one is trivial

>>24916749
>Doesn't accept to be Christian
But he certainly thinks it's good to be a Christian, believes the Bible is some great source of wisdom, and feels the need to defend its institutions?
The issue is that he claims that atheists are willfully blind or disingenuous when he himself is an atheist.

>>24916848
>Trivially
No it's not. Look up types and antitypes, pseud.

>>24916848
>Christians have always believed
How would you know anything about what any Christian ever believed you fucking burger demon? From the start different sects had vastly different interpretations.
>>24916859
>If you disagree with anything some demonic burger fundie said you're an atheist.

You people have never had a thought in your lives.

are fedora atheists still a thing?
most have probably trooned, right?

>>24916879
>There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
>nor is there male and female
hello christroon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skoptsy

>>24916859
>atheists are willfully blind
To become fanatically religious in their believes, preaching the word of science.
Trying to fill the void in their soul which should be filled with faith in god and love for Jesus

>>24916876
So the Bible could not be true, Jesus could not be God - why should anyone give a fuck then?

>>24916875
To believe in typology requires that I believe the Bible has internal consistency, which it evidently doesn't unless you make the hackneyed parallels typical of typology!

>>24916919
>pseud sperg
Lol.

He kinda cooked there ngl.

>>24916879
no, most of them have redditor remorse and are pretending to be religious online

>>24916981
>no you

>>24916560
>Slavoj Žižek: There’s a Special Place in Hell for Clinton Consensus Supporters

>>24917029
Not sure what happened to him but now he is on the Charlie Kirk grifter train

>>24917059
lol, ill look into that

>>24916655
I understand that. What I want to know is how saying "I am a Christian" would trivialise anything?

>>24916914
>restates burger fundamentalist axioms as if they're divine truths
Study the fucking book and history if you're interested. If Peterstein is not a le real Christian (tm) then neither were the original church fathers like Justin or half of Europe under Arianism.

>>24917070
It moves the discussion away from the ideas, the content into labels that have been politicized and tribalized.

>>24916518
How did a real deal learn to be a real deal? By trying, and accepting that you're not always being liked by everyone, surely.

>>24917004
this is exactly what I mean, they still carry that hormonal angst with them and it shows so obviously in everything they type out

>>24917070
>I understand that.
You clearly don't because you have to ask:
>how saying "I am a Christian" would trivialise anything?
Peterson's statement entails the label has gravity and he brings attention to the fact the fedoras fail to respect that.

Nu Atheism sold people false confidence by instructing them to be loud and obnoxious about "their" beliefs. The fedora fad became an embarrassment because it didn't teach people to calibrate the strength of their opinions according to the depth of their knowledge.

>We have Chris Hedges at home

>>24916435
he looks like he's trying too hard to not look smug. i guess canadians are very easily corruptible by american exceptionalism

Why are fedoras still a conversation when tradcels have been a thing now for what, 12 years? Why is internet culture stuck in purgatory?

>>24917201
Tradcels are the ones "controlling the narrative", anon.

>>24917201
"Tradcels" are the low-hanging fruit of a counter-revolution caused by people like you pushing "her penis" nonsense on children

>>24917293
Found one

>>24916406
>>so you're not saved?
>i'm working on aligning myself with the Logos.
>>is that a yes?
>it's a process, not a status.
>>are you afraid of going to Hell?
>i’m more afraid of becoming the kind of person who belongs there.
Valid points desu

>>24917310
Where?

>>24917293
I’m not a leftist and trannies are only validated by metaphysics.

>>24917391
K.

>>24916406
Based

— the Bible is a hyperlinked library of wisdom across centuries. It’s not a book you simply “believe in.”

Stopped reading here. He’s not wrong. It is something to be entertained.

Had a Christian walked up to God and gleefully said “I treat everything in the Bible as fact!”, do you think God would be proud, or disappointed?

>>24917350
Found another one

>>24917341
sounds pretty based, ngl

>>24917341
only people who haven't read the bible are impressed by his schtick. no wonder christians love him

>>24917486
if you dont take it all as historical fact you're an atheist.

>>24917493
>phantoms in my head
Got it.

>>24917517
You sound resentful and insecure.

>>24917769
Already arguing like a woman kek

>>24916406
>>hat depends what you mean by “moral,” and whether they're standing on borrowed ethical capital.
misspell, argument is dismissed and you have lost if we were to operate under your own logic, lol.

>>24916406
>do you believe in Jesus?
>AAAAAAH FUCK YOU THAT'S TOO SIMPLISTIC, YOU'RE TRYING TO TRAP ME IN A RHETORICAL CUL-DE-SAC YOU SCOUNDREL
>...yes or no?
>DEFINE YES AND NO.
>ok then, since you don't want to answer that question directly, can you tell me what exactly do you say when you recite the apostles' crees
>AAAAAAAH BEGONE SATAN - where the fuck did I leave my bottle of benzos - SAVE ME JUNGMAN THE ATHEISTS ARE TRYING TO KILL NE
>BY THE WAY THE POST MODERN NEO MARXISTS ARE DESTROYING THE WEST BECAUSE THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN TRUTH, NEVERMIND ME DOING THE SAME. SUBSCRIBE TO MY PATREON FOR MORE BIBLE ASMR. I NEED TO BUY MORE SHEOGORATH SUITS. PLEASE.
this guy is fucking riot, lmao

>>24917793
Relax bud. Pop a b tab and relax

>>24917771
NTA. You do sound resentful and insecure.

>>24917793
>you should just fall into rhetorical traps that people who are looking to argue in bad faith are trying to set for you
The fact people like you run around and think this is a victory just shows how anti-intellectual the left actually is.

>>24917793
Kek

>>24917793
No one wants to talk about how Islam conquered the nations they didn't go to war with. I'll give you a hint, its very much like Communism where the "useful people" no longer are needed when the end result is made manifest.

>>24916655
>The people with whom he's debating trivialize the concept of being Christian
Because Christians trivialize themselves
>Catholics defend institutional pedophilia that has been a thing for 500 or so years and prior to that evidence the church sold Heaven to the rich
>Prots. In trying to remove corruption we get Puritans and Americans
>Orthos. Honestly unsure, I'm sure they're a mix of the above. I'm sure Icons of saints are fine for other Christians.

The best Christians are the ones who are just lovely people who would be considered terrible Christian by any seriously knowledgeable and devout Christian.

>>24917953
>>Catholics defend institutional pedophilia that has been a thing for 500 or so years and prior to that evidence the church sold Heaven to the rich
Not true and bad faith, don't trust this person.
>Prots. In trying to remove corruption we get Puritans and Americans
Not true and bad faith, do not trust this person.
>>Orthos. Honestly unsure, I'm sure they're a mix of the above. I'm sure Icons of saints are fine for other Christians.
Not true and bad faith, do not trust this person
>The best Christians are the ones who are just lovely people who would be considered terrible Christian by any seriously knowledgeable and devout Christian.
Again, just straight up lies from some satanist who thinks he knows anything about anything, ignore the midwit if you want to live a good life.

>>24917953
Most reddit post I've read all week, congrats.

>>24917889
>NTA
>arguingwithholes.jpg

>>24917970
Good way to invalidate your own argument, I guess gays are holes as well.

>>24917953
Zealous Christians get into heaven just as much as non-zealous Christians, sorry to ruin your cucked, secular narrative to you sodomite.

>>24917953
lmfao ameritard

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>>24916521
Peterschwein refusing to say the resurrection happened makes him exactly as “christian” as your average atheist.

What you then have to explore is who would /defend/ that absolute nonsense, and the answer is no christian would, because it’s the barest definitional hurdle by any denomination.
Hence we have a person denying Christ being defended by tradlarpers who are too dumb to know they’re not christian.

>>24917769
you sound underaged and homeless

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Leave it to Peterson kiddies to do something as retarded as psychoanalyze anons online kek. Fake "science" for fake people

>>24917555
Christ, I didn't realise Muslims were atheists.

>no guys you don't get it, believing in fairy tales is PUNK, now

>>24916528
Bigger paychecks

>>24916406
Serious question, how did Canada go from Marshall McLuhan to this

>>24918021
>When the sun of culture is low, even a dwarf will cast a long shadow

>>24916459
Dying after being cursed by God for refusing to sincerely revere His name and wish for the Israelis to exterminate all children in Gaza

>>24917974
If that's true then why would you reduce the quality of your earthly life by being overly zealous. If I can live a regular life and gi to heaven, vs living as an ascetic and getting the same heavenly reward, then there is no reason to be a zealot.

>>24916406
Blows my mind how no one stops to consider that maybe Muslims are able to gain a footing in the West because they don’t wrap themselves up in this fluffy psychoanalytic secular language about religion the way that people do in the West. They just sincerely believe in their religion and live accordingly. There is no “death of God” hanging over their conscience like it does for Westerners, and guess what, they’re able to remain confident themselves along with Jews meanwhile it’s the white man and Christian man constantly trapped in paranoid confusion.

>>24918053
Well low IQ tends to do that. They are incapable of any introspection so like animal they just live and breed. I shudder to think what a nafri/darkie/jeet world would look like. Static and unchanging until the ecosystem collapses.

>>24917087
That's why he doesn't define anything? Biggest brain move, your position never falls under scrutiny if its not formulated in any way.
>you hold belief A?
>yes, but no, leading to maybe. Stop boxing me!

>>24918082
You're only demonstrating that either you're dishonestly refusing to think and engage with ideas or you're too stupid to do so if you tried.
He goes into long rants about what he actually believes but you have to reduce it to your conditioned labels to infuse the discussion with political and tribal baggage, either because you're trying to undermine the discussion or because you're so fucked in the head that you can't think, only be conditioned like an animal by pop media.

>>24917793
>THE ATHEISTS ARE TRYING TO KILL NE
It's actually demons nowadays, according to his daughter

>>24916406
Uuuuhhhhhh
Crayfish piss o algo judeo-bolshevism is fought

>>24918115
The video was called Christian against atheists. If he went into the event, that is more or less admission. Later the title of the video was change. He clearly wants wiggle room, and not hold any position so he can just critique other views.

>>24918139
He used to call himself Christian and found retards like you use it as a way to dismiss what he's actually saying by for example only accepting the definition of a Christian given by some braindead burger pastor you've decided is more authoritative than the church fathers for some reason.
You can't think or even pretend to think.

>>24918190
It's not really that complicated... either you believe what the bible says happened to jesus or you don't
just because you want to play 2deep4u semantic games doesn't exempt you from answering extremely simple yes or no questions
>Do you believe Christ was born to a virgin and resurrected after his execution because he is the son of god
YES
Then you are a Christian
NO
then you are not a christian

you can proclaim to be a cultural christian in that you agree with everything but the magic in the bible but that would not qualify you for heaven if there were such a thing

>>24918230
>Do you believe Christ was born to a virgin and resurrected after his execution because he is the son of god
You don't see how what any of that means might be relevant to what answer you give?
>you can proclaim to be a cultural christian in that you agree with everything but the magic in the bible but that would not qualify you for heaven if there were such a thing
Again the supposed atheist is demanding I accept fundamentalist burger religious dogma so we can both just stop thinking about what things actually mean.

>>24916406
If Peterson was this good

>>24917555
Faith has never required truth, idiot. If you actually, fully believe in your religion, you aren’t doing it correctly. You are just disrespecting your religion at that point.

>fedoras can’t deal with the cognitive dissonance of atheism not being internet culture anymore(because it’s brown)
>actually no one ever really believed in the bible

>>24916406
He knows if he says what he really thinks about Christians and Christianity then the grift is over.

>>24916406
>"well it depends on what you..."
>*looks at clock*
>years of trained psych therapy billing clients by the hour kick in for clock milking handwringing bullshit
>"mean by meaning like I could publish a whole book on that AND I HAVE!"

>But everyone who denies me here on earth, I will also deny before my Father in heaven

Matthew 10:23

>>24916718
The debate around “postmodernism” is entirely aesthetic and partisan. Most everyone who thinks post modernism is le bad are, ironically, usually quite postmodernist themselves. They just don’t like the aesthetic of a philosophy concocted by bohemian French faggots in the 70s and 80s.

Meanwhile the defenders of postmodernism (Critical theorists, post-structuralists, etc) oftentimes have very modernist beliefs when they aren’t LARPing as Foucault.

>>24917953
What a dumb post.

>>24917970
>t. resentful/insecure

>>24918139
>The video was called Christian against atheists
So? You can tell Peterson won because fedoras are stuck on repeating the title of the video as if it were an argument made by Peterson himself, lol.

>>24918230
>Do you believe Christ was born to a virgin
Anglicans and the Eastern Orthodox Church don't believe the dogma of immaculate conception to be binding.
>you can proclaim to be a cultural christian in that you agree with everything but the magic in the bible
You're parroting a fedora version of literalism because you're too dumb to form your own relationship with religion.

>>24918552
This is fair, particularly when it comes to "culture war" figures like Peterson, Tucker, or the "thinkers" of the nu-Right (BAP, Yarvin, etc.).

However, there are still a number of people putting out extremely high quality (and IMHO devastating) critiques of modernism and post-modernism. Chief among these is D.C. Schindler, who is criminally unknown, although he does sometimes lapse a bit too much into polemic of boosting Catholicism in particular (I have no problems with Catholicism and bring our youngest to mid-week mass and Bible study at a Catholic church and love the priest there, but as an EO it can seem a little exclusive at times). Peter Simpson is another good one, John Milbank is excellent, Brad Gregory and Peter Harrison have some good "historical debunking" stuff, or there is Patrick Deneen (who seems to have a cult following here). Charles Taylor and Alasdair MacIntyre (RIP) were great too (Taylor is like 95 or something so I don't expect anything more out of him unfortunately, unless he pulls a Kissinger and publishes at 100 lol).

There are also figures more to the political left like David Bentley Hart (who has an excellent reputation of post-modernism in his first book and analytic scientism in later books). I'd throw Eric Perl in there too as a popularizer of the classical tradition even though he stays out of politics (no clue what his politics are). Charles Taylor was always very centrist too, and MacIntyre for the most part (going back a ways, you could add C.S. Lewis too). Harrison and Funkenstein's historical debunking of the Enlightenment (done with far more rigor and detail than post-modern treatments) are also more apolitical (Gregory's is less so). You could add Byung-Chul Han and Mark Fisher I guess, but they make very similar critiques just in different language but without any of the concrete positive foundations on what would be better (Deneen could be accused of this a bit too).

I'll even throw Robert Sokolowski's Phenomenology of the Human Person and John Deely's semiotics project out there as actually robust realist alternatives to the nominalism that makes a slide towards post-modernism inevitable (and so C.S. Pierce and the Augustinian Doctrina Signorum enter as a counter to Sausserean semiotics and the move towards post-structuralism. Or there is Hadot with philosophy as praxis.

There is a wealth of good stuff out there that is critical of liberalism, the Enlightenment's claims vis-á-vis its epistemic and metaphysical presuppositions being due to "pure reason," historical debunking treatments that show that the "philosophy of pure reason" is historically contingent and born out of the presuppositions of late-Medieval nominalism and voluntarism (which can easily be argued against as an arbitrary grounding, or for Christians, as heretical), and robust counter proposals. The problem is that these aren't as accessible to the person with a standard modern education.

>>24918583
The Immaculate Conception is the notion that the Virgin Mary was born without original sin (through the prevenient grace won by Christ). The Orthodox absolutely affirm the Virgin Birth, and that Mary was perpetually Virgin. To deny this is a grave heresy, since it jeopardizes the whole Incarnation.

The Orthodox don't have the Catholic doctrine surrounding Mary's birth because they don't have the Augustinian notion of Original Sin as imputed guilt passed by heredity. Some Orthodox theology comes pretty close here but it's always different because the understanding of Original (or in the East it is often called "Ancestral") sin is different. The theology of the Cross is also different, being basically the theology of the Catholics until Anselm where Christ is a ransom to sin and death ("trampling death by death") not a ransom to God the Father because justice demands that he punish man (or for Protestants, because God's wrath demands that *someone* suffer). This is one of the more annoying areas because here, and all across the culture you will find people confidently asserting that this sort of penal substitution theory is "the traditional Christian view," when it is fact a modern invention (and rejected by the two largest churches).

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>>24918650
dis shit don't matter. All tradcuck cope

>>24918650
Good post

>>24917158
Canadians are smug entitled cunts as a rule

Where did he say this stuff? I'd like to read it or listen to it in full.

>>24918583
>Anglicans and the Eastern Orthodox Church don't believe the dogma of immaculate conception to be binding. You're parroting a fedora version of literalism because you're too dumb to form your own relationship with religion.
That's good for them but it's irrelevant. They don't get to choose which part of Le Word Of God they want to believe in.
>erm, thousands of le theologians have pondered this question in le past, so... stop asking les questions
"No!"
The original people who worshipped Yahweh were illiterate goat farmers who took what little scripture they had as "gospel truth", which means what it means, they took it literally and swallowed every bit of it.

So again it's not difficult at all.
>Do you believe that Jesus was born to a virgin, that he turned water into wine, that he walked on water, and that he was resurrected 3 days after death
YES
then you are a christian
NO
then you are not a christian and if you claim to be, you are either lying or you are dishonest

The only reason it's so hard to wring any admission out of Peterson is because he wants to feel special, and he does this by responding 2 to a question where the only valid answers are 1 or 0

>>24918726
It's pasta some anon made after JPs embarrassing jubilee debate.

“Did the Greeks believe in their gods?”

>Faith has never required truth, idiot. If you actually, fully believe in your religion, you aren’t doing it correctly. You are just disrespecting your religion at that point.
/thread

>>24918748
The Greeks and the Romans on religion is interesting because many of them saw it more as an intersection between their culture and the natural world. Especially in the Late Roman Republic where Julius Caesar didn't seem to believe that the Gods existed but he still paid lip service to it. I imagine there were many Greeks who were the same. There were Greeks who believed and Greeks who didn't believe but they all paid lip service to it because they saw it as culturally or socially important, most likely because it would make them look good if you were someone like Caesar.

Atheists are so afraid of hat memes that they’re unironically saying you don’t actually have to believe in God to be a Christian, and the fact that this is all coming out of spite in an autistic culture war is a level of euphoric undreamed of. Truly, I tip to you good sirs.

peterson is a lukewarm christian and some of his opinions aren't backed by theology at all. i hate how he sometimes is regarded as the leading right-wing christian. he is not. he's a lukewarm centrist.

>>24918769
What's weirder is how this tactic worked in Judaism but not in Christianity. The difference between Orthodox and "Reformed Jews" is that the Reformed basically just ripped out all the mysticism but kept the values the religion extols. It's always been odd to me that it was so successful with the Jewish community but not with the Christians, despite decades of trying to do so and the excessive relabeling.

>>24918768
Priests were another type of politician.

>>24918726
It's a summary of what Peterson said during that retarded show where someone sits at a table and a bunch of people sitting around them race to a chair in order to argue with them. It's not the type of setting for a reasonable discussion but Peterson elevated it.

>>24918768
>an intersection
Stopped reading there. Don't use academic crutch words.

>>24918789
>that retarded show where someone sits at a table and a bunch of people sitting around them race to a chair in order to argue with them
I have no idea which show you are referring to. This sounds like some kind of made up description that a Kafka knockoff would write about a county government or something.

>>24918712
thats not a real thing, 56 percenter

>>24918790
What would you use instead?

>>24918789
>Peterson elevated it.
You wish you stinky faggot.

>>24918790
I could say "crossover" or "cross" but that just sounds dumb considering the topic we are talking about. Just because academics are dumb as rocks doesn't mean you aren't allowed to use their words.

>>24917986
/thread

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>>24916406
yet to be refuted

>>24918858
Jordan Peterson does not believe everything in the Bible is literally true, but he views it as a profoundly meaningful and truthful text in a different way. He sees the Bible as a "prerequisite for the manifestation of truth" and a repository of ancient wisdom that captures fundamental aspects of the human experience and consciousness. For him, its value lies in its mythological and psychological truth, which provides a framework for navigating life, rather than its literal historical accuracy.

Even Dawkins said he prefers Christianity over other religions.

>>24918583
>fedora version of literalism
>says the man who didn't know the difference between the canonical virgin birth of Jesus and the dogmatic immaculate conception of Mary
>he made such a blunder he still hasn't responded to the other two anons
You are an atheist, just like Peterstein, and this thread is a joke. Bad fruit from a bad tree.

>>24918858
owned. when peterstein commits suicide, this debate will be noted as the nail in the coffin
>>24918874
/thread

>>24918888
quads confirm

>>24916406
>>do you believe in the Bible?
I only believe in some parts of it. I do not believe that David defeated the giant Goliath with the help of a sling, this was a biased opinion of Jews, symbolism - "the small Jewish nation are defeating big non-Jewish nations". David could not defeat Goliath because Goliath was wearing armor, a sling strike on the arm, leg or stomach was not fatal. Goliath's face was covered by a helmet, so a slingshot on him would not have been fatal either. The only weak point was the throat, unless it was covered by a gorget, but a chance of a sling hitting Goliath's throat so accurately was negligible. I believe that David did not defeat Goliath. Also giant Goliath might have a gorget, and his neck and throat was protected very well, and a slingshot from David's sling posed no threat to Goliath's life.

>>24918769
We’ve somehow gone full circle into these dweebs thinking their grandma is dumb for believing in Iron Age myths.
Pottery

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>>24918913
>mfw grandma actually prays to a jewish storm god and doesn’t internalize “god” is your higher will overcoming the human condition
How very…. quaint.

>>24918863
GPTesque deepity slop

>>24918955
SAAR

>>24918888
holy based quads of truth and logic

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0126.htm

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>>24918973
yes, jeets love that sort of vacuous blathering

>>24919022
My favorite quote from him is about democracy but the people are retarded.

>>24919060
thats everyones favorite

>>24919073
fair, I've seen some of his talks because they also mirror Buddhist talks in a lot of ways but like most gurus or people of that nature half the shit they say sounds good but when you think about it, its either super obvious or just said very poetically. The other half is actually kinda helpful practical stuff and strategies you can do to improve your life and such.
I think a lot of Christian theologians and preachers kinda get so caught up in the metaphysical part of the religion that they find the practical part obvious or boring or not interesting; which is a shame because I think its the most interesting part.

>>24918874
The point is that religious beliefs aren't paint by numbers and "your" midwit point about cultural Christians is superficial in this context. Caught up?

>>24918771
americans are a race of fat retards. a podcaster uses psychology jargon in the same sentence as fundamentalist double-speak and suddenly that's "philosophy" or "theology"

>>24918817
I don't structure my thoughts according to buzzwords coined by third rate humanities departments whose existence is indicative of the decline of universities as an institution.

>>24919180
That is an avoidant reply.
How would you express this idea in your own words?
>The Greeks and the Romans on religion is interesting because many of them saw it more as an intersection between their culture and the natural world.
You don't have to agree with an idea to express it, so please don't try to avoid the question by saying you simply wouldn't express the idea.

>>24919169
I never got this "Americans are dumb" trope, if you're so smart why are you a vassal state of America?

Does he believe Jesus resurrected?
>its complicated....
Every single christkek will say yes

>>24919224
Because power has zero to do with intelligence?

>>24919238
You honestly think that is gonna fly in modern day geopolitics? Maybe it still does inter-personally, but you're not seriously suggesting that all these smarter European countries some how accidentally ended up as clients to a stupid nation?
Either American isn't dumb, or Europe isn't smart at this point.

>>24919231
exactly. if he really believed, he would proudly announce it unequivocally. weird how he gives more direct answers to "what is a woman" than anything biblical, which is allegedly one of his specialty areas.

>>24919248
Or you're just the big stick that the actually smart people use to whack the world with?

>>24919254
Why would smart people give up their sticks for a bigger stick they can't control completely only to act shocked when the big stick turns on them? That's not very smart in my opinion... Then again... It is a trope to have a far more intelligent person die to their creation due to hubris.

>>24919264
>only to act shocked when the big stick turns on them
What are you talking about, when did that happen? You retards keep cucking to them.

>>24916406
What an annoying string of responses. Can we please build a wall against Canada next,?

>>24919268
>reduction of armed forces in Germany and all the "ohh, we can't trust America anymore".
>the rampant spying the USA was doing on all its European allies
>A lot of European nations starting (or at least saying they are starting to) increase their military spending
>All the blustering about giving land to Russia, in fact, the whole Ukraine-Russian war you have European leaders upset with how America was handling it
>Politicians in Brussels legit crying when they were told they need to pay their share of NATO that they have been ignoring for years.
I mean, you're our allies, we wouldn't actually hit but we also aren't going to fund your weird ideological stances for forever. Maybe China will, but the American economy won't be great for forever.

>>24919277
??? lol ???

>>24919284
I accept your concession :^)

>>24916521
He is a weasel. If he doesn't definitively identify with any group/label he can just deny and deflect when questioned on his bullshit. The whole "well define x" shtick is so lame.

>>24919296
>It's okay when people do it against others
>It's not okay when people do it to me
lol

>>24919294
Ok because you don't even understand the discussion, did you think I was talking about the eternal Euro controlling you lmfao?

>>24919191
>That is an avoidant reply
No it isn't. I pointed out the use of jargon disguises superficiality and that fact betrays the lack of value in what you wrote. The idea that there's an "intersection" formed by Roman religion that connects their "culture" and the "natural world" is a very basic observation and it can be applied to multiple religions throughout human history. Basically, rewriting the sentence won't change the fact that is says very little and using jargon coined by "studies" departments is a red flag that what you've written won't be interesting let alone insightful.

>>24919354
>The idea that there's an "intersection" formed by Roman religion that connects their "culture" and the "natural world" is a very basic observation and it can be applied to multiple religions throughout human history.
So what? I'm not asking whether you think it is a good or insightful idea. I'm asking how you think it should be expressed without using the word "intersection" or any other words you think are crutches. Sometimes it is necessary to express ideas that are not that insightful.
If you just wanted to tell that guy you didn't like his idea, why did you just do that and explain why?

>>24919354
He didn't write it I did, but its kinda hard to convey but there was a respect to the religions that were criticized that the modern day world lacks. Even some of its most harshest critics such as Plato who rejected the idea of a Pantheon at all did it in an oddly respectful way that I can't seem to find anywhere in the modern world anymore. Not to mention, almost all of them still participated in these religious ceremonies anyway and not always to disturb them either.
I just thought it was interesting that these philosophers would go as far to say that the gods don't exist then just go: "Okay, I'm going to celebrate Panathenaea now anyway!"

>>24919391
>I'm asking how you think it should be expressed
Anon, this has been explained to you. Rewriting the sentence won't change the fact it lacks substance and said lack of substance is automatically betrayed by use of canned jargon. I know you're pretty low IQ and whatever 3rd rate education you've experienced trained you to mimic depth via terminology but do try to keep up. It isn't a complex point.

>>24919406
>its kinda hard to convey but there was a respect to the religions that were criticized that the modern day world lacks.
When you write an essay make sure your opening statement isn't garbled. Did you mean "aspect"?

>>24919416
We have entered the "trading petty insults" stage.
You had a problem with the terms used, I asked you what terms you would use instead to express the same idea, and then you couldn't or wouldn't answer.

>the authors intended you to 'believe' their stories

>>24919421
Iunno, my point is that the Ancient Greeks and Romans had an interesting relationship with their religion and just because they didn't believe it didn't mean they wouldn't "go through the motions" like everyone else. Its times like this I wish the Library of Alexandria didn't burn down and we had more of an insight to their stances of religion than the glimpses we see.

>>24919483
I actually wonder what early Greek translators thought of the bible, I don't know enough about the bible's journey from Jerusalem to the Europe, but I know it got to Greek via Saint Paul and I'm curious if any of the Greeks who translated it were pagan. I imagine that they have translated weirder shit, or maybe at least read about the dog headed people in India or the giant ants that apparently dominated the lands under the Sahara Desert.

>>24919521
the hebrew bible was translated to greek by greek speaking jews before christianity even happened dude

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>>24918650
Trads could write a billion pages destroying liberalism. No one will read it. And even if they did, they won't want to be trads. They would rather be free.

And sure, trads could write another billion pages demonstrating that consumerism and "freedom to choose" with untamed passions is actually slavery (pic related, Epicetus says the same thing in Stoic terms, that most masters are really slaves, and the dude was a slave so he has some experience). That won't make people want virtue formation education. People love that shit in books and movies. They love the Institute in Red Rising, or Paul's training in Dune, or the Battle School in Ender's Game, or that stuff they do in Divergent, or the Dûnyain education in Bakker, etc. They love reading about it. They don't actually want to fast, so vigils, sprints, get woken up at dawn to train, etc. They don't want adversarial teachers who are looking to fail them.

The funny thing is, this is exactly what tradism suggests. It's like they don't read their own shit. The "many" are never going to prefer virtue to vice just because someone gives good demonstrations that they should. That is 100% Enlightenment thinking. For the Christian tradition, they are blinded by sin and even for the Platonists they are degenerate and fooled by materiality.

Trads participating in mass politics is a huge internal contradiction. According to their own theories they should be focused on something like elite academies or monasteries or something (if not being hermits) to raise a class capable of overturning the collapsing liberal order by force or at least securing their own virtuous (semi)independent polis.

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>>24918769
My hat is not small and dickhead shaped

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>>24919536
Holy shet!

>>24919531
I'm talking about the new testament that Saint Paul took over.

>>24919521
The Jews largely spoke Greek in the Med long before Christ. They translated the Bible earlier in the Septuagint. Saint Paul wrote in Greek (as did all the other New Testament writers) because that is the language of the times. Aramaic was the day to day language, but Greek dominated trade and writing. It's hard to say for sure, but Hebrew was quite possibly a pretty much dead language (although still studied) by Jesus' day.

>>24919468
>can't respond
>cries about insults
If you don't want to get called a retard don't be one. Simple as.

>>24919557
>petty insult

>>24919635
>still crying
Thanks for letting me know they're landing.

>>24916406
>are you afraid of going to Hell?
>>i’m more afraid of becoming the kind of person who belongs there.
If he had read the Bible he would know that we all belong in Hell by virtue of Original Sin. It is only by the grace of God (unearned, unmerited, undeserved) that we can escape Hell.

My favorite internet atheist. What an amazing grifter

>>24919742
>The greatest trick the internet atheist ever pulled was convincing the world.....

>>24919720
That's Augustine.

>>24919792
That's the New Testament

>>24919813
By way of Augustine.

>>24916406
even the most ardent fedoras were never this smug

>>24917896
>it's a rhetorical trap to say you believe in Jesus and the resurrection
you're going to hell.

>>24918115
>You're only demonstrating that either you're dishonestly refusing to think and engage with ideas
OK I'll call your bluff. Summarize JP's ideas on christianity. If what he was saying had any meaning at all, this shouldn't be difficult.

>>24919296
It's simpler than that anon. Jordan Peterson, despite his best efforts to be otherwise, is an atheist. He cannot confess the Christian dogma because he knows that in his heart of hearts he does not believe it

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How I would honestly answer these questions
>do you believe in the Bible?
>no
>so you don't take it literally?
>I do
>you're avoiding the question.
>fuck you
>are you saved?
>no
>so you're not saved?
>that's what I said, retard
>is that a yes?
>?
>do you believe in Heaven and Hell?
>I believe in what Homer believed
>that’s not what the Bible says.
>David and Solomon taught Sheol read the book that you shill for
>are you afraid of going to Hell?
>we all go to Hell
>do you think atheists can be moral?
>only Atheists can be moral
>borrowed from what?
>De Diddy, un dios poderoso que puede salvar todos los moralfags christcucks
>so they’re moral, but for the wrong reasons?
>?
>so you’re better than them?
>I'm worse because I haven't donated a tub of water to niggers
>so why not just say you're a Christian?
>I do say that, Jesus is my god who I worship
>because I’m not willing to trivialize that claim.
>When the fuck did I ask you anything?

>>24919947
Actually its you who is going to hell for being disingenuous, but thanks for proving my point, lmfao.

>>24919947
>It's not a trap that news presenter who lives in a majority christian nation starts asking you very basic questions when they could have just stated your a Christian then get to the point
I hope for your sake you never have to live through communism because you aren't going to pass the IQ check when the commissar comes around asking questions.

>>24920004
and what's the point of the trap? what negative consequences will come of him answering the question other than him losing the atheistic half of his audience?

>>24916406
The problem isnt that these answers are bad, but that they could easily fit with any spiritual/mystical tradition. So JP is really no different from the hippie boomers who were "spiritual but not religious", and for whom "all the paths lead to the same peak", etc.
And this approach is the completely logical and necessary consequence of modernity - we go to the belief supermarket and pick out lifestyle Christianity, or lifestyle Buddhism to try on, then maybe Eastern Orthodoxy specifically will scratch the itch. And look, there's the salesman in the bespoke Icons Suit offering "meaning", but that meaning is already streamlined for the consumption of the online entertainment client. You can't believe like medieval man anymore, you can't go back.

As someone else said itt, JPs railing against postmodernism (which did not create but recognized that state of affairs) is itself the ultimate p.m. performance, an attempt to create the illusion that one can just decide to live in another, more romantic pre-secular world.

>>24920195
>you can't go back.
Sure you can. You just need buddhistic fascism.

>>24920195
There's nothing really secular about this world. People who say this generally have no coherent idea of what religion is. At best, they'll vaguely tie it to "supernatural beliefs" and call it a day, but even people like JS Mill found this definition to be lacking, because dogmatism and religious feeling are not exclusive to such beliefs and some forms of religion do not even need supernatural beliefs. This just affirms the false notion that liberalism has virtually no preconceived ideas and assumptions which it impresses upon the world (communitarians have already pointed this out).

Liberalism, like any ideology, is a religion. It's also a very successful one because it appeals to people's base and hedonistic desires.

He's basically a nu kind of Christian which doesn't see the bible literally.
For some reason many don't understand this.

>>24920220
That's not really new.

>>24920221
Well for many it is, or at least they act like it.

>>24916406
I just can't believe his early life entry in wikipedia, he's gotta be jewish

>>24916608
This is a rare strong and clarifying argument. Thank you anon.

>>24920218
Generally people who think the world is secular are ironically western, upper to middle class, and have genuinely never traveled; and if they have traveled its been to resorts and places of luxury. They are so disconnected from 90% of humanity that they genuinely think every place of worship around the world is empty during prayer and that they are only maintained by a minority of people. The two biggest non-western countries in the world are also still fairly religious (China and India)

>>24920296
Irrelevant. The Western world dictates the future, for good or ill. China and India are only relevant because they have been imitating Western culture. Sooner or later it will lead to the same profanization.

>>24918824
>stinky
Your mom tell you that? Next time tell her to let me have a shower before she eats my ass.

>>24918732
>They don't get to choose which part of Le Word Of God they want to believe in.
Yeah they do and they certainly know more about it than some loser fedora tipper on 4chan (You). Not reading the rest btw.

>>24920220
>nu kind of Christian which doesn't see the bible literally.
They are quite literally rebuked in the book of 2nd Corinthians

>>24920218
If everything is a religion, nothing is. Neat confirmation of the post-modern blanketing of that term, too, and a (very) slightly more sophisticated version of "dude atheists are religious too because they BELIEVE there's no god!"

>>24920442
Are you sure you know what is meant by "literal"?

>>24920848
Valid. JP's point isn't that everything is a religion. It's that everything relies on irreducible qualitative axioms that, when formulated, are indistinguishable from religious dogmata. Are atheists religious? Some could say so. But it's not necessarily a point that JP really aims to deliver.

>>24919813
guess who's famous for translating it, retard?

>>24917087
>>24917111
Again I ask how saying "I am a Christian" would trivialise anything?

You're explaining how bad actors would trivialise things, not how someone identifying as a Christian would trivialise the concept of Christianity or anything related to it. It's an extremely simple question.

>>24916435
We jorpin'?

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>are you a Christian?
>IT'S ALL SO... OVERWHELMING!

>>24918021
Why even put them in the same league, Peterson is a grifter not a philosopher

>>24920889
>Again I ask how saying "I am a Christian" would trivialise anything?
This has been answered multiple times. If you don't understand the answer you're too dumb to converse with.
>You're explaining how bad actors would trivialise things
Correct. Now take that information and contextualize it according to the show Peterson was on, how fedoras typically argue, and apply that to the conversation at hand.
>It's an extremely simple question.
Only if (You)'re extremely simple minded.

>>24921125
I know, but that was my point, his fans put him in the same category all the time. It's such a sad, sorry state.

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>>24921125
It's just that the *starts crying* the predicament of Odysseus as he stood and stared... *trails off, mutters incoherently* stared across that great DIVIDE... that... that is the belly of the beast... *sobs*

>>24921111
>>24921138
wow... so le deep....such le emotion......

>>24921150
I like how you responded to both of your own posts but at the same time you seem like a person who argues for a "more compassionate" society but then does these weird anti-social victory laps when someone you disagree with but don't know has problems or issues.
I guess your forever fated to fight against a society you made for yourself.

>>24921155
wow....such le seethe....very le mald......

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>>24921155
That is your cross to bear. These callow cur know not the magnanimity of God and of being saved. Jesus, Mary, and Jehosephat!

>>24921158
I'm just pointing out the inevitable moment that when your down and your luck and others in society celebrate it, don't be shocked. It's the kind of society you want to live in, sure criticize his ideas, dislike if him you must, but that shouldn't be where you strip humanity from someone over something so petty.

>>24921111
>>24921138
when this guy eventually offs himself it's going to cause so many copycats amongst his fans. we'll lose 10% of /it/ overnight

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Just bought this and placed it next to my funko collection!

>>24921138
>the predicament of Odysseus
he's more of a Pinocchio guy

>>24921204
No one will ever make a busy of you.

>>24921204
What's it say on the plinth?

>>24916406
genuinely, non-memely correct way to look at things

>>24921211
Its ART chud

>>24921211
Doctor Peterson owns my bussy. He says I must wash it but I won't :^)

>>24921373
Good luck with the parasitical infections and fecal incontinence, faggot.

>>24921126
>Only if (You)'re extremely simple minded.
The question is simple, retard, not the answer. You still have not answered the question, I recommend reading comprehension classes if they offer them in India.

>>24921211
>tfw my bussy will never have a bust

>>24921211
>tfw no one will bust in my bussy

>>24921449
>You still have not answered the question
The question was answered but you're filtered because you're a moron. That you're a moron is further exemplified by the fact you can't come up with original context specific insults and fall back on calling everyone making fun of you a jeet, lol.

>>24921452
>>24921455
>samefag
Good luck with the ass cancer, trannie.

>>24921472
keep going

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>>24921473
>things anon has said to bathhouse strangers after the condom broke

>>24918743
>>24918789
So he didn't even really say this stuff and there are hundreds of replies in this thread picking apart what it means, doesn't mean, whether he is an atheist or a Christian.
I'm sure there's some kind of self-relevant post-modernism thing to be said there, but I really don't care.

>>24921506
>So he didn't even really say this stuff
The pasta paraphrases him, retard.

>>24921517
Yeah, that would be an image or simulacra of what actually happened. That's what I'm referencing.
There's no need for this out of pocket language anon.

>>24921535
>Yeah, that would be an image or simulacra
Lol, pseud.

>>24921496
keep going im almost there

>>24921579
You already lost. Remember this when you're dying alone of some opportunistic infection.

>>24921576
boohoo

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>>24921598
>t.
Except you've never been on a date.

>>24921611
I have been on a date. I am in a relationship right now.
Never read Hegel but I have a basic understanding of post-modernism. Never read a book about that either thoughbeit.
Is what I said all it takes for you to think someone is pretentious?

>>24921630
No one cares, pseud.

>>24921637
Mad

>>24921586
>lost
not going for a ruined orgasm tonight, so no. anyway keep going

>>24921639
Sorry to hear that. Go hug your body pillow.

>>24918048
If.

>>24921611
the semi colon is the cherry on top, kek

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>>24921611
The irony here being the world would be a lot better if the reality of women was how he imagined it and how society misinformed him on how women are.
So I don't really feel sorry for her, she was complicit in propelling a narcissistic lie and now she has to pay her penance by hearing about she she doesn't care about AND YET HARK, SHE DOTH PROTEST TOO MUCH!!!!

I tried reading the bibble but I thought the beginning part about humans living for like 300 years was kinda dumb so I stopped reading and did something else with my day.

>>24922318
But a couple of midgets with a magic ring or a B]british boy that can cast spells is just as believable right?

>>24917986
>>24916406
but isn't this exactly the reason he doesn't want to call himself a cristian , he respects the people who "made it" but thinks it didn't happen.

whats the problem other than peterson is the guy here.

>>24918583
>mixing up immaculate conception and virgin birth
The absolute state.

>>24919060
Thats not Osho.

>>24917970
Cool it with the resentment and insecurity

>>24920848
It's closer to the original understanding of religion, no? There weren't religions, but there were ways of interacting with the unseen. Divorcing the magical and spiritual from the mundane is a relatively modern notion.

>>24920004
>ask your opponent if he is a Christian
>he says yes
>follow up and ask him if he believes in an extremely basic tenant of Christianity, for example did Jesus rise from the dead
>your opponent doesn't answer this even thought as a self professed Christian the answer has to be yes
>he gets indignant and accuses you of acting in bad faith.

It's almost as bad as Memerson pretending not to understand the concept of a hypothetical and saying "I wouldn't put myself in a situation where I had to lie to a nazi officer if there are any Jews hiding in my attic", because lying is morally wrong.

>>24922697
^^^

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>>24922697
perfectly true

>>24922336
So is it supposed to be a work of fiction or not? Do people think Harry Palmer or Dildo Baggins is real?

>>24918816
It is. They're complete cunts

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>>24916406
so this is what the christian equivalent of reddit new atheism looks like huh

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If you're praying the Hours you're praying the following morning and every time you go to liturgy:

I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all ages; Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten, not created, of one essence with the Father through Whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried; And He rose on the third day, according to the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father; And He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom shall have no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of life, Who proceeds from the Father, Who together with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, Who spoke through the prophets.

In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the age to come.

Amen.

---

It isn't that hard. I get that "other creeds" now exist (pic related), but if you're going to consider yourself a lowercase "o" orthodox Christian you should have no problem affirming the Athanasian, Apostles, and Nicene creeds. I don't know if Protestants still say them at every liturgy, but the Catholics and Orthodox still do.

>>24916406
he is not a Christian. he only promotes "Judeo-Christian values" because he is part of the Israeli right wing populist op. the purpose is to provide a safe political zone for chud-minded men where they can fixate on the Old Testament and respect Jews and stay away from nationalism. there is nothing else there.

>>24923201
based, /thread

Why are "Petersonians" always so fragile and feminine

>>24916406
He's a Jungian, so his beliefs are hollowed out spiritual concepts which serve as nothing more than psychological symbolism for the people expressing them. If I had to wager his ACTUAL beliefs I would say some new age atheism.

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>>24923286
It's a smoke screen of opaque word vomit and obscurantism to paper over the basic idea that:

>Naturalism and empiricism are inviolable and true, but mysticism is also good for positive experiences and morality so we must secure them through obfuscation.

It's Philip Rieff's therapeutic ethos basically. That's also why they gravitate towards liberalism, because they ultimately buy the athiestic materialist metaphysics underpinning it, they just think tradition and mysticism had "positive benefits" and so want to secure it. Lacking a way to do this coherently in terms of naturalism, we get the obscurantism.

They should pray for faith, fast, keep the Hours, and keep vigils, that they might be prepared to participate in the Divine Mysteries, to drink of the Blood and eat of the Bread of life.

>>24922697
except that is exactly what people who argue in bad faith do, hide behind the morals of their opposition rather than make a case. It's an obvious trap and its an obviously hostile interview.

>>24918008
You must be confused, that's not Jesus you're conversing with.

>>24921163
Ain't no way they want us to take a religion seriously when they've got kings named Jehoshaphat walking around.

>>24921430
You sure owned him.

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>ITT: Cultural christian atheists in denial about their atheism arguing with cultural christian atheists in denial about their cultural roots
Great thread anyway.

>>24919022
even their spiritual leaders are scammers.

>>24923347
>their cultural roots
Greece and Rome, thanks for the reminder rabbi

>>24921138
it's really a mystery why men don't cry or open up to people

>>24923353
What's an important, for you, moral stance you derive from those roots then?

>>24923360
Arete as a lodestar for a good life.
Taking action in the world, guided by virtue, instead of turning cheeks and lovin' enemies.

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>>24923391
Good answer.

>>24923357
you want to be a wittle victim so bad awwww

>>24916718
You’re correct. Similarly when he attacks academics for being useless he’s one of the best examples of wasted tax payer money there is. Years of teaching bullshit jungian twaddle with zero applicability, no scientific support, hell it outright rejects the premises of scientific testing as does all psychodynamic psychology from which it sprang.

His key feature as a speaker is word salad and arguing semantics. He IS the living embodiment of the system he attacks, and his fans that cheer him for doing so are apparently too dumb to tell. He mumbles some bullshit about marxism and capitalism, applause. When his entire career was paid for by the socialist academic system that allows useless word salad academics to get paid to teach this crap to others. But /now/ after a fucking lifetime of sucking government teat he’s a hero because he got retards to pay for him on a private circuit. Like Elon pretending he’s a free market champion being the direct recipient and benefactor of massive government spending. But hey, it doesn’t matter because again their fans really are just that stupid.

>>24923410
says you. women are queens of persecutory delusion. you breathe it like air.

>>24916406
>>literalism is a modern distortion
This is a modern cope. Literalism was the default for most of the history of the Bible. Go look up any sermon by a Puritan preacher in the 1700s like Jonathan Edwards.

>>24923357
It's not the crying or the opening up. It's the way he does it, couching his emotion inside layers of dishonest misdirection and often completely incoherent verbal diarrhea. Sadness isn't a function of a character in an old poem looking out across a divide -- it is a primal upwelling of emotion which is personal.

In his defense, it's not his fault that men aren't allowed to show emotion. But it is his fault that he lacks the courage to express his emotion authentically. He has to play pretend that his sadness is actually drawn from some abstraction which somehow crosses the barrier into emotional reality.

He's already "breaking the rules" by crying in public. He should use that small act of bravery in service of a greater bravery instead of immediately metastasizing it into a greater falsity. This is the shit women hate: men who are so uncomfortable with emotions that they can't express it authentically.

>>24923428
>says you
correct. stopped reading there.

>>24916459
Committed to a psyche ward

>>24924039
>layers of dishonest misdirection
He doesn't do that though. He's a passionate guy in an era where being passionate is used to attack people.

>>24924077
I regularly cycle through his crying videos on a weekly basis when I feel like having a laugh. You're making excuses for him because he's the first guy to fill that dad hole and tell you to clean your room and wash your penis and shit when instead you could learn something. Jorp is not an emotionally mature man. Sadness is localized in the self. It is not localized in the zeitgeist or the Odyssey or the belly of the beast or whatever indirection he needs to use to avoid dealing with his emotions.

>>24924034
>go look up a sermon by the people who were thought to be extremist literalist idiots as my proof that christianity was always literalist
The tradlarpers aren’t sending their best. Some of them, I assume, are people.

>>24924081
>I regularly cycle through his crying videos on a weekly basis
And it's for this reason no one should take you seriously.

>>24924034
>for most of the history of the Bible
>Puritan preacher in the 1700s
Lol.

>>24924091
It's not something I'm particularly proud of, for the record... but I'm not exactly ashamed of it, either. Jorp is a kind of talisman for modern men -- the archetype of the kind of eccentric, supercilious, vaguely-intellectual goober who's epitomal of what contemporary internet-american males aspire. He's very good at what he does. His image is impeccable, his manner duly professorial, etc. He's got the image down pat.

It's just that he happens to preach from a toothpick pulpit. His inability to regulate and process his emotions is also emblematic -- it's just that this part is wholly unintentional and, ironically, the most honest aspect of his entire being.

I find that funny, personally. Maybe you don't. That's cool, too.

>>24924104
>Sadness is localized in the self
This was also pretty dumb. Next time you think to write something like that ask if it's overly broad to the point it's trivial and thereby kind of dumb.

>>24924170
madness is localized in the bum
AYYYY GOTTIM!!!!!

>>24922470
The post was pointing out fundamental differences in worship and the poverty of literalism (which you are very much stuck in). Are context clues too much for you?

>>24918583
>Anglicans and the Eastern Orthodox Church don't believe the dogma of immaculate conception to be binding.
I'm Anglican and this is the biggest bullshit I've ever heard.

>>24918732
>That's good for them but it's irrelevant.
It isn't though. Most people who become religious don't automatically jump into parroting dogma and when Christians converse it doesn't generally involve literalist statements of a specific beliefs. You brought up the virgin birth and pointing out how the immaculate conception isn't binding in Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestantism underscores differences in modes of veneration (e.g. the Eastern Orthodox Church doesn't venerate Mary as necessarily distant from original sin whereas Catholics have necessity to define her as not only without an inherence of guilt but virginal in that sense throughout her life). Acting like nothing is up for discussion if you don't declare "I believe in the virgin birth" demonstrates the fact Peterson's detractors want to box him in and treat everything he says in prejudice according to a preconceived rote they've played over and over.

If you ask someone who takes Christianity seriously and is, perhaps, on the path to belief "are you a Christian" that person describing how they interact with church teachings while expressing how they see the church as it relates to people in general isn't "denying Christ" or "dodging the question." Implying such is a blatant attempt to disingenuously frame a discussion in predefined way favorable to one's set beliefs (i.e. prejudice). Like the other anon said: instead of thinking and discussing what things mean you want to attach a label and all the baggage your prejudice affords it.

>>24924613
Anglicans don't have an official dogma relating to the immaculate conception. The pope dogmatized it in the 1800s for Catholics but Anglicans have a different perspective on original sin and this creates a different emphasis.

>>24924654
Anglican is a big tent term, even bigger than Eastern Orthodox, we are very much like Islam in that we are decentralized into "houses" of thought some being more liberal, some being more traditional, some being more secular. So saying "All Anglicans believe X" is like saying "All Christians believe Y". We have houses that act like Protestants, some that act like Catholics, some that act like New Wave Christianity. You can't just lump the largest Christian Confederacy in the world into 1 viewpoint.

>>24924170
You missed the point, lil guy.

>>24924039
>often completely incoherent verbal diarrhea
sometimes, but it's mostly overt, filterless pathos. It's kinda interesting actually, seeing how the postmodern postironic whateverism had at its core an allergy to expressing such pathos with even the slightest sincerity, with a bemused chuckle accompanying even using such vocab as God or Good and Evil - and JP swung that pendulum back full swing, often losing himself in rambles about those Great Ideas^tm, which I guess in his prime was a refreshing kind of public intellectual.

That said, both men and women would be ridiculed, and rightly so, for breaking into tears at the profundity of their own musings on the regular. I don't think it's an act though. I think Peterson has a hypersensitive nervous system that makes him high-strung, emotionally fragile and causes all those psychosomatic ailments he seems to suffer from all the time (apple cider lol).

>>24916406
Maybe unpopular opinion but Jordan Peterson doesn't need to tell people if he's a Christian or not and it really shouldn't matter. You can debate him on whatever truth claims you want regardless of whether he himself accepts them.