>>24921478

My opinion on the characters of the Iliad is that Thersites was the only man with any sense. Which is precisely why his author conveniently had him as extremely ugly, almost but not quite deformed, in order to try (and fail, for the right-thinking reader, at least) to make him unsympathetic. Because if they had all followed Thersites' eminently sensible and correct advice, to stop caring about some other man's bitch, just get on the boats and go home, then we wouldn't have a movie. Actually, wait, yes we could. We could still tell the vastly better story of Odysseus' Long Trip Home with this initial episode as a mercifully truncated backdrop, and thereby be spared the immensely turgid Iliad, which is surely one of the most overrated works in history. The amazing thing about the Iliad is that it manages to make warfare and carnage—an inherently interesting phenomenon—boring, a feat which is even more impressive when one takes into account the legitimately interesting device of having the gods follow their various natures, and have their own intrigues influence and run in parallel with that of the mortals. Homer's depiction of warfare is so dull that it manages to more than cancel out the above interestering mythological conceit, to a net negative literary and poetic effect.

>>24921508
>t. read (insert translation that isn't Lattimore)

>>24921478

WHO THE FUCK IS ULYSSES?

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Ajax the Greater is criminally underrated

>>24921558
Bro, what?
Ulysses is one of the most famous characters in the Iliad and there is even an equally famous sequel by Homer about his return.

>>24921478
reading fag-les in 2025 ngmi go back to lattimore

>>24921568
> he starts his clapback as Bro, what?
yeah, you should listen to this guy about classical lit.

>fallout new vegas fan larps as reader for the first time
let me guess, you think the protagonist of joyce's ulysses is named odysseus?

>>24921567
my favorite secondary character. the gods never empowered this dude, yet when the Acahaian situation was most dire, he maintained hope, motivated the other men, and held off a favored Hektor

>>24921582
Oh, but hast thou not thyself but now an error committed? and an one most vulgar. See thee, that greene text; quotes it whom?

>>24921656
the biggest strongest dude is the coolest: that’s the sole reason this literary artistic piece is still read in ancient centres of learning. marvel theme park reasons.

>>24921661
>Bro, what
Thou

>>24921661
>an one
lol

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>>24921671
But two words against seven. The ratio worketh against him.

>>24921684
‘quotes it whom’ is also improper in any age.
but they simply corrected you. there was no error.

>>24921508
You're trolling, no one who can read and appreciate art can prefer Odyssey's juvenile adventure to Illiad's cosmic misery.

>>24921691
I have undone myself...

>>24921552
>>24921581
You people frighten me. Whatever I read of Lattimore reveals him to possess no poetic prowess. He doesn't even try to achieve emotions through language.

>>24921700
You sleep, Achilleus; you have forgotten me; but you were not
careless of me when I lived, but only in death. Bury me
as quickly as may be, let me pass through the gates of Hades.
The souls, the images of dead men, hold me at a distance,
and will not let me cross the river and mingle among them,
but I wander as I am by Hades' house of the wide gates.
And I call upon you in sorrow, give me your hand; no longer
shall I come back from death, once you give me my rite of burning.
No longer shall you and I, alive, sit apart from our other
beloved companions and make our plans, since the bitter destiny
that was given me when I was born has opened its jaws to take me.
And you, Achilleus like the gods, have your own destiny:
to be killed under the walls of the prospering Trojans [...]

>>24921478
>Is Ulysses a bad guy?
If you read Sophocles' Ajax and Philoctetes this should answer itself

>>24921568
Uh? There is no Ulysses in The Iliad.
The most popular characters are Achilles, Odysseus, Agamemnon, Hector, Paris, Menelaus, Diomedes, Ajax the Great, Nestor, Helen, the greek gods...
No Ulysses.

>>24921700
which translation did you read

Which WWE wrestlers would be the equivalent of Iliad Heroes?

Achilles - Hulk Hogan
When they Hulk up they are nearly undefeatable

Patroclus - Macho Man Randy Savage
Best friend with the Hulkster, a very powerful and underrated warrior in his own right

Ajax the Greater - Brock Lesnar
A powerful man, physically the strongest

Odysseus/Ulysses - Randy Orton
Cunning fighter, strategical

Diomedes - John Cena
Favored by the higher ups, honorable

Nestor - Ric Flair
The old legend from an older era

Idomeneus- The Miz
Consistent, efficient, always reliable


Any other you guys can think of?

>>24921567
Yeah he's great. I actually thought Paris as kind of a fuccboi and Helen as a remorseful yet ultimately fickle and horny woman were perfect. And I never hear people talk about how cool it is whenever Apollo appears, from sending a plague ripping through the Green camp to incapacitating Patroclus and leaving him for dead to tearing down the ramparts with ease.

But one of the best and most underrated scenes is when Hector lowers his war helmet and Astayanax cowers with fear and him and Andromache laugh about his innocent naivety before Hector removes the helmet and Astyanax is happy again. Subtly heartbreaking and foreboding. Scenes like those show what a true artist Homer was

>>24921707
"Sleeping, Achilles? You've forgotten me, my friend.
You never neglected me in life, only now in death.
Bury me, quickly—let me pass the Gates of Hades.
They hold me off at a distance, all the souls,
the shades of the burnt-out, breathless dead,
never to let me cross the river, mingle with them ...
They leave me to wander up and down, abandoned, at the House of Death with the all-embracing gates.
Oh give me your hand-I beg you with my tears!
Never, never again shall I return from Hades
once you have given me the soothing rites of fire.
Never again will you and I, alive and breathing,
huddle side-by-side, apart from loyal comrades,
making plans together-never ... Grim death,
that death assigned from the day that I was born
has spread its hateful jaws to take me down.
And you too,
your fate awaits you too, godlike as you are, Achilles-
to die in battle beneath the proud rich Trojans' walls!
But one thing more. A last request-grant it, please.
Never bury my bones apart from yours, Achilles,
let them lie together ...
>>24921729
Btfos Lattimore's translation

>>24921700
Lattimore has by far the most resonant voice which miraculously bridges the mindset and thoughts of the ancients into modern language as near as is possible. Anybody claiming him not to be poetic or poorly so because he doesn‘t write in iambs is 100% exposing their narrow capacity for poetic language and its effects.

>>24921697

Nope. Sincerely hate the Iliad (and you should too), wasn't filtered, have good taste, gave satisfying reasons. Sucks, and is respected for no other reason than that it is old and an interesting historcial artifact. Misery can be rendered well. The Iliad largely fails at this task, precisely because it bores, no matter how you dress it, hexameter or no, English or otherwise.

The value in reading the Iliad consists principally in two elements: to understand the unavoidable cultural references, and to correctly reject its literary and poetic merit from a position of knowledge. That is the main pleasure in understanding the work.

>>24921955
>gave satisfying reasons.
"You should listen to ugly people when they tell you to wuss out."

>>24921955
>have good taste
>hates the Iliad
I've got news for you buddy

>>24921568
It's anachronistic to call him Ulysses when talking about the original Homeric works. That is the latinisation of his name. Which did not appear for centuries after the composition of the Illiad and Odyssey.

>Two men get in a pissing match about their war brides
>Achilleus cries like a little baby when he gets his taken away from him
>"B-b-but I have big muscles, I deserve a slave to rape WAAAAAH"
kwab
agamemnon gang represent

AJAX DID NOT KILL HIMSELF

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You know who i think is underrated? Patroclus. We all knew Achilles was the greatest fighter and no one is surprised when he kills every trojan on sight, but what really surprised me was Patroclus. He was actually insane in battle and only got beaten because it was fate and Apollo took his armor and weapons. I can't even find a single painting of Patroclus acually in battle, all the paintings of him is either when he is chilling with Achilles or dead, closest i got to was this painting of the guy he killed, Zeus' son. Patroclus was so awesome. If anyone knows of some painting of him actually in Achilles' armor please share.

>>24921567
When he throws that rock at Hector and almost kills him, so cool dude it's unreal
>>24923765
How so?

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>>24921567
>Hector's face when Ajax is chosen by lot for the duel and starts walking towards him