The two great masterpieces of Latin literature, the Aeneid and the Metamorphoses, lack a great two of excellent translations. Most translations either take ferocious liberties, or are underwhelming; even if they manage to be "good", they are seldom the sort of thing you wouldn't mind reading every year, which is really what they ought to vetThe two exceptions:Mandelbaum's translation of the Aeneid. It's done in iambic pentameter. Really the only issue is it has many more lines than the poem in Latin, but that is because of Mandelbaum's fidelity, something he normally is less concerned with (his translation of Ovid is frankly a chore even though he dresses it up as best he can). His introduction is quite good, about how he put off reading the Aeneid for a long time because it was overshadowed by its father, Homer, and its son, Dante. But when he finally confronted the text he was mesmerized, and sought to make a translation that could at least echo its literary power. His translation manages to convey the very stately voice of the Aeneid and accentuates what makes it a unique work of art, whereas other translators leave one feeling as if it is just an inferior knockoff of HomerFor the Metamorphoses you have McCarter. She likewise translates into iambic pentameter, and her introduction is also quite good in that it covers some of why English translations tended, when Ovid is actually a very vivid writer who has the skill to instantly instill images and emotions. She strives for fidelity which is also often absent, but just as importantly she strives to create an English equivalent to Ovid's style: quick and energetic but literary, employing alliteration at many points. She makes other translations feel like a short in comparison Each translator really goes a very good job at trying to emulate their respective poet's voice
>>24926886Great post, thank you anon. In high school, I worked with my Latin class to translate the Aeneid and I wish I had taken it seriously and committed more to memory. It's one I plan to re-read, soon, though probably in English this time around. I'm currently reading Beowulf. I had grabbed a Heaney translation as it seemed the consensus for a starting point, but when I got home, I found I already had a Raffel translation. Call me shallow, but the edition is easier to hold so I went with Raffel. I can tell it forgoes poetics in exchange for momentum, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't make for an exciting read
>>24926886Have you read the Bartsch Aeneid? It's supposedly good and retains the original length
>>24926899Heaney can't even read Old English as he says at the outset. Raffle is closer. My favorite is the MacNamara. It was published by Barnes and Noble and is their edition, so it is quite cheap but the translator is very good>>24926901I retains the same number of lines but as she says in order to do this in iambic pentameter she omitted things that were clearly formulaic filler. Mandelbaum doesn't, and she likes his translation w lot but feels like its length bogs down the briskness of Virgil. I personally prefer Mandelbaum's as a matter of personal taste, as I I just like his of words better, but hers is better than most
>>24926918Raffle* autocorrect
>>24926886Dryden for Virgil, Sandys for Ovid>but muh libertiesdon't give a shit
>>24926918>>24926919Damn. 0 for 2. But that's good to hear. I should have been suspicious when I saw Heaney slurp up the praise put forth by a single Google search
>>24926924He gets pushed so hard because he is a very distinguished poet, since you can do a very faithful translation of Beowulf that maintains the integrity of the original style. Translating Old English poetry into Modern English poetry is much less of a difficulty than translating Latin or Greek poetry into English. It doesn't require a great poet to make it beautiful poetry, but translating Latin and Greek poetry does definitely require poetic chops
>>24926921Look at it this way: a baroque painting of a classical scene, doesn't make classical depictions unnecessary. They're very different forms of art
>>24926886Dryden for AeneidGarth for Ovid
>>24926921>>24927038Fell for the meme
>>24926886I enjoyed A.D Melville's translation of Metamorphoses, though granted its the only one I've read so I can't say it's the best. It's in blank iambic pentameter, but it has these rhyming couplets at the end of each passage which gives it a nice momentum that keeps the poem dancing along quite elegantly. To be honest I like it so much it's a technique I've started employing myself, putting them at the end of each stanza of a poem I wrote recently. I bought the Fagles Aeniad last week. His Homers were good, but I wish he adhered a more stringent meter (something that, funnily enough, his Sophocles translations do more than the other one I read)
>>24926918thanks for the macnamara recommendation, i'd read the hall translation after hearing sections of it but realized it varies wildly in quality after going through the full thing. its a shame alliterative verse isnt more common in modern english.
>>24928799Might revive English poetry if it got a few big publications
>>24926886>mccarter>Then why continue to read Ovid? McCarter proposes Ovid should be read because he gives us stories through which we can better explore ourselves and our world, and he illuminates problems that humans have been grappling with for millennia. Careful translation of rape and the body allows readers to see Ovid’s nuances clearly and to better appreciate how ideas about sexuality, beauty, and gender are constructed over time. This is especially important since so many of our own ideas about these phenomena are themselves undergoing rapid metamorphosis, and Ovid can help us see and understand this progression. The Metamorphoses holds up a kaleidoscopic lens to the modern world, one that offers us the opportunity to reflect on contemporary discussions about gender, sexuality, race, violence, art, and identity.
>>24930548Ovid literally has an episode about a woman who is transformed into a man and she/he then marries the woman (s)h's in love with and they live happily ever after.
Heres mandelbaums translation:But when the fleet had reached the open waters,with land no longer to be seen – the skywas everywhere and everywhere the sea -a blue-black cloud ran overhead; it broughtthe night and storm and breakers rough in darkness.And from the high stern, even Palinurus,the pilot, cries, “And why these tempest cloudssurrounding heaven? Father Neptune, whatare you preparing?”
I posted this before this is how the metamorphoses translates exactly into englishIn nova fert animus mutatas dicere formascorpora ; di, coeptis (nam vos mutastis et illas)adspirate meis primaque ab origine mundiad mea perpetuum deducite tempora carmen !>In (to, in, into)>Nova (adj New, feminine gender implicitly implies wandering, seeking, desire and ties together with other feminine endings in sentences, Vague between subject and "from/to/by" form" hints to animus as possible subject but with too much distance)>Fert (It carries)>Animus (spirit, mind, subject of sentence)>Mutatas (Has been changed; Accusative, Plural, Feminine, Passive, shares a form with formas)>Dicere (*to* say)>Formas (shapes, forms, figures, appearances, types, structures, accusative plural corresponds with mutatas)>Corpora (Bodies, corpses literally, neutral implies emptiness and receptivity, implied the object of sentence, but room as the subject)>Di (Gods; Subject: Masculine or retaining)>Coeptis ( They Commence from/by/to)>Nam (for)>Vos (You plural *thee*)>Mutastis (Thee changest)>Et (and)>Illas (They, feminine accusative plural; describes mutatas and formas from previous sentence)>adspiriate (command form to: thee breathest!, [*inspire, favor, lend support])>Meis (by/for/from/to: My, mine *plural form*)>Primaque (adjective corresponding with nova from eariler; defined: And the first)>Ab (from)>Origine (from/to/by the origin)>Mundi (of the world)>Ad (to, towards)>Mea (defined *my*; feminine: [wandering, searching, receiving] corresponds to nova from earlier)>perpetuum (everlasting, continuous; the object of the sentence what everything said refers to)>deducite (Commands form: lead away! *or [draw/ pull/ bring away])>Tempora (times *plural)>Carmen (the song)
