Unreadable by modern standards. Important, sure, but more of a novelty nowadays.
>>24937457>modern standardsGiven the current abominable level of reading and comprehension skills of the average person, even of the average college/university student, I don’t think this is a particularly good metric.
That's because your spirit has been castrated by christianityalso Fagles is a shit translator. Verity is superior
>>24937480The Iliad is inherently a Christian work
>>24937521really if anything you’d have to say christianity is inherently homeric.
do u guys like the peter green tranalation
>>24937521The catholic church would have hanged Homer
>>24937540it was medieval emissaries of the catholic church who preserved homer.
>>24937549So?
>>24937457Maybe if you're illiterate
>>24937556so they probably wouldn’t hang a writer they spent a thousand years copying by hand.
>>24937578Giordano Bruno wants a word with you.
>>24937591dante, maybe the foremost catholic poet, puts virgil as his guide through the afterlife.
>>24937539It's good yes, it was my favourite at a time, would need to check again.
>>24937602Dante is not the catholic church.
>>24937604How many different translations are you people reading?
>>24937591Bruno was born a century after the printing press was invented
>>24937613the church did canonise his view.
>>24937615It's a classic. I learnt ancient greek and have even compared manuscripts, read various secondary works, commentaries, etc. Rereading as a sleepy man, I find Verity to be the most lucid, which is for the best.
I read it this year and I'm not like a big reader or anything and I'm pretty young and I thought it was quite great outside of a couple chapters that felt super dated, like the one that's just pages upon pages upon pages of naming characters lolOtherwise parts of it still holds up really well. I think the description of the action is almost a bit movie like
>>24937622Irrelevant. Homer's work contains rituals to pagan gods. if he wrote it during the peak of the church's reign, he'd have been burned to the stake. There's no debate to be had over this matter. The spirit of Hellenism opposes that of Christianity. You are pathologically incapable of understanding Homer.
>>24937632People don’t typically go back to translations after learning Greek.
>>24937643>Homer's work contains rituals to pagan gods.So what? So does the Bible
>>24937657Tell me where the Bible contains rituals venerating Zeus.
>>24937643those rituals were already obsolete by homer’s day. pic related. & medieval art is filled with venus, diana, etc. le roman de la rose is built on pagan allegory.
>>24937666forgot img
>>24937666>those rituals were already obsolete by homer’s day.I accept your concession.
>>24937663>venerating ZeusHow does that follow what I said? Are you ESL?
>>24937675So no. the bible does not contain rituals to hellenic Gods. I accept your concession.
>>24937480>You need glory because.. erm.. you just have to!
>>24937674>I accept your concession.i accept your concession.
>>24937639You'll get those parts when you're not young.
>>24937648Normies probably don't, but I'm not when of them. I'm what you'd call a classicalist. I keep up with translations.
>>24937718One** didn't I say I was sleepy?
>>24937718Classicists is what I had in mind.& translations are specifically written for the non-Classical public.
It's perfectly readable. I don't know what kind of dumbass smoothbrain you need to be to not understand it, it's incredibly simple.
>>24937736wonder what makes you say that? homer was a difficult writer. he was breaking new ground, and often failed to express a complex idea adequately in hexameters.
>>24937747>often failed to express a complex idea adequately in hexameters.Like?
>>24937747Maybe if you're talking about the original Greek, I wouldn't know because I've only read translations.The moment to moment actions of the Greeks, Trojans, and gods are laid out very simply. Nothing about it is difficult to follow or parse unless you aren't used to reading archaic language.
>>24937759one well-known example being thé long ekphrasis in book xviii. he also omitted many vital pieces of information, or inserted them too late. when patroclus goes into battle wearing achilles armour homer doesn’t initially specify that the trojans mistake him for achilles. the sudden mention of achilles talking horses in xix.
>>24937778few translators save homer’s face by remedying these defects, or soften the wearisome formality of phrase which slows down the action (is it necessary for hera to be called ‘white-armed, queen, daughter of great cronus’, or athene ‘the owl-eyed virgin daughter of zeus’ more than once or twice in every book?)
>>24937457you should check out wilson's translation. it was tailor made for your iq.
>>24937778>I wouldn't know because I've only read translationsthis is a valid excuse, unlike this dalit shitstain >>24937789 who can't read homer because he's brown
>>24937809>Wilson gives Homer a new lease of life & allows readers to encounter Homer as he was meant to beis actually one of the greatest compliments you can pay a translator.
>>24937820i’m greek.
>>24937833So he's right. a shitskin mutt.
>>24937809What are the chances that you hate women? I'd wager high.
>>24937840just like homer
>>24937842say that to my face
I'm a glue sniffing zoomer retard and I find it really fun to read. Ancient (White) civilizations were so much more vibrant and complex and interesting than modernity-worshipping kikes would have you believe. Also, Achilles, big strong (almost) invulnerable war machine, wept! To his mommy! Sigma grustler redpill masculinity grifters would have a fucking seizure
>>24937869very problematic stop being so fatphobic and racist
>>24937733Yeah but I love this stuff, so I check out his different minds across time try to translate the poem. Honestly the best translation is the German one.
>>24937833>i’m greek.
>>24937869Yeah, reading ancient western literature made me giga racist.
>>24937457Apparently I'm reading a book where the author states that in Homer's time the idea of human agency did not exist.
>>24937901says a lot about the human bean condition
>>24937833Post hand
>>24937781>when patroclus goes into battle wearing achilles armour homer doesn’t initially specify that the trojans mistake him for achillesDisguises were already used in the story before that point, like when Apollo puts on Aeneas' armor to rally the troops after he got his shit rocked by Diomedes and was recuperating.
>>24937901That's stupid btw. People attributed all things to god, yes, eureka was something from Athena, etc. But this were not simple minded men who believed this completely, even in Homer's own work it is acknowledged that this attribution could and could not be true in a given situation.
>>24937910i’m not really greek.
>>24937914talking about reader-facing information. and apollo does not put on aeneas armor, he shields him.
>>24937919especially since Achilles was given a choice
>>24937932Right, regardless of Zeus and fate, Thetis repeats that he can just let it go, he didn't.
>>24937928>But he of the silver bow, Apollo, fashioned an image>in the likeness of Aineias himself and in the armor like him,>and all about this image brilliant Achaians and Trojans>hewed at each other(...)This is right after he's taken away to be healed, from Lattimore. He doesn't literally put on his armor, I was wrong, but a character's armor is continuously brought up as a defining feature of them so it doesn't come off to me like a stretch to assume the Trojans thought it was Achilles.
>>24937919I dunno, maybe I'm oversimplifying things a bit but even if agency was indeed a thing then, human agency was downstream from the Gods' agency. The modern world reversed that.
Was gifted a copy of Odyssey a few months back. Should I buy and read Illiad first?
>>24938058nothing, neither fate or the gods, is considered an absolute power in homer (the greeks understood the world - only death is inevitable).
>>24938016i think you make my point well enough for me; when homer uses divine impersonation (for instance), he states it outright. same for when aphrodite visits helen, etc, homer explains that illusion immediately.
>>24937781I noticed the patroclus blunder but that can hardly he considered a complex idea. And the talking horse is common in mythology I don't see the problem there
>>24937521just when i think christcucks cannot possible be even more mentally ill
>>24938069well then, you're not really disproving my argument, because death is still a fate, an ultimate fate.
>>24938401sure, but complaining isn't going to bring your father back from the store.
>>24938536hello, we’re talking about the ancient greeks. the word µοῖρα doesn't translate exactly to the inevitable predetermination of our word fate.
>>24938540>father jokes from a christcuckits time for you to beg daddy god for forgiveness. tell him what a real bad boy you've been. maybe start whipping yourself too.
>>24937480As if literally every single work of Christian literature didn't build itself off of Homer. Holy fucking midwit.
>>24937869Achilles isn’t invulnerable, he can’t join the fight until Hephaestus gives him armor and he gets injured in the arm by a random jobber during his aristeia. The whole myth about being dipped in the River Styx by Thetis is a Roman invention centuries later and is nowhere present in the original text.
>>24937680you're a fucking retard.
>>24938851& regardless the story is he dies at troy (not in the iliad, but)
How does every thread eventually turn to people arguing about religion?
>>24937457>I accidentally bough T.E. Lawrence's prose version of "The Odyssey.">I'm a poetry faggotWill I still enjoy it and should I still read it?
>>24938851The Iliad is not intended to be an exhaustive account of Achilles, in fact it alludes to more than the audience would be familiar with, such as his death
>>24941205It's not very good, he wrote it to make it accessible to people with sub 100 IQIf you like poetry, consider Merrill's translation
