Do you hold the thinkers you read accountable for their predictions? Do you expect their theories to have predictive power?
>>24941550no, because a lot of its just rhetoric. most of its just sorcery. but its interesting sorcery.
Of course. If the theory was accurate it’s extrapolations would be accurate. Especially something like marxism which went all in on predictions and the only retards who still support it are the ones who haven’t read it.
>>24941593Thats why narrative history is usually superior. Theory is just fun speculation.
One thing I've noticed is that actual statesmen, politicians, and military men tend to be more prescient than academics when it comes to the future of the world. I think of Napoleon selling America the Louisiana Purchase and remarking that he had ensured the United States would be a superpower some day.
>>24941616he only did louisiana because he got mogged by a rando haitian revolution kek
>>24941550I used to put a lot of stock in predictive power. I remember being really impressed by anyone who had predicted Trump's first win early on. Now I'm not so sure. A theory with strong predictive power will look foolish if something highly unexpected happens. The inverse is true of a bad theorist who just happens to get lucky. I think what's really significant is when an old work feels contemporary. Predictions don't matter so much as the ability to tap into something timeless about the human condition.>>24941616Good take
yes of course I do and I continue to be validated
>>24941593>Especially something like marxism which went all in on predictions and the only retards who still support it are the ones who haven’t read it.200 years later and LTV and TRPF haven’t been deboonked. Though lord knows you tranny kikes tried and failed though. Milton, Keynes… that retarded nigger Hayek gets refuted every day by reality he must of had syphilis the way he wrote. Now you losers are on to MMT as the latest cope. Your profit rate still falls. The state will still intertwine itself inseparably from business enterprises to squeeze out another few centuries of slavery. You will still be a chud incel and support your jewish masters instead of achieving class consciousness. The line will go to zero. You will be liquidated into s-ylent green.
>>24942998shill more
>>24943047not an argument + Land has never been proven wrong
>>24943003economic calculation problem
>>24943082>ANOTHER BANGER
>>24941593>>24941550Communism is simply King. There is no denying this fact. Socialism does not just logically follow from the contradictions of Capitalism. But communism is also the direct logical end point of the bourgeoisie revolution ideology.Democracy? Freedom? A country ruled by it's own people? These concepts are fundamentally ante-thetical to Capitalism and private property. Who are these "we the people" who control the state in a democracy if not the working class! That's literally communism.
>>24943102Land didn't do drugs any more than your average student, and given that he doesn't advocate for fucking kids he's by default clear of your typical French faggotthis idea that Land "fried his brain with drugs" only became a meme when he left the leftoid plantation and started writing in China (which he has been completely sober for)it's a poor attempt at character assassination because he started bringing up uncomfortable ideas, doesn't change the fact that you have to live in his world forever
>>24941550What I dislike about much of the humanities is there is no accountability, it all just exists in this grey zone of vibes and acolytes. We can say the market or sales decide but even then, that's not proof something works or fails, except for soviet style communism, failure all around.
>>24941550Predictive power is quite literally the only thing that matters. Period.That's all there is.
>>24943112150 years of this nonsense and still no communism
>>24943115>HARDER DADDY IM ALMOST THERE
>>24943090Solved 40 years ago Kek. A single MacBook could plan the economy.
>>24943140and yet still no communismcurious
>>24943200Yes, per Marx’s thesis communism will evolve naturally when the rate of profit hits zero and the state withers away. Consult the chart >>24943003Of course we all know as long as it stays above zero, even 0.0001% rate of profit will be desperately kept around by advanced technoslavery and the 5th reich
>>249432082 more weeks
>>249432102 more trillion to israel goy
>>24943131150 years of continuous class struggle directly contributing to better living standards for the common populace. Anti-communists DON'T have a leg to stand on. The theory literally works
>>24943210>no you can't make a long term prediction it needs to be fulfilled TOMORROW
>>24943225I'm not an "anti-communist" I have never done anything to oppose communism and I never will>>24943226conveniently this also means your prediction can never be wrongcommunism functions as the rapture for you people
>>24943230Good thing Marx’s economic predictions have all come true thus far! It’s hard for Keynes to refute someone that has mathematical data on his side, the poor bastard did try so very hard. Marx also predicted austerity would be tried and championed by these retards and fail spectacularly like it did.
>>24943230>marx predicts that more and more capital will be employed to extract value>trend holds, he was right>marx predicts this capital will continue to accumulate in less and less hands>trend holds, he was right>marx predicts the then-massive numbers of agrarian workers will migrate to other industries>trend holds, he was right>marx predicts revolutions will take place>ruling class deliberately makes a century of concessions to quell unrest>this means marx was wrong, actually
>>24943241>predicted communism would happen in advanced industrialised countries>only happened briefly in agrarian societiesoops!
>>24943247>"predicting" things that were already happening>actual predictions still have yet to happen>failed to predict fascism (the defining ideology of the last and current century)
>>24943257>you're right, actually, the economic extrapolations are true>but i am going to pretend it's wrong because of political developments
Marxoids can’t handle the Malthusian truth that you can’t feed billions without running out of resources.
>>24943260I never said that Marx wasn't an important thinker/economist during his time, but he's exactly that, of his timenot an oracle that saw 200 years into the future
>>24943247Putting your attempt to troll to the side - As a Marxist, there's really no way of coping with the fact that revolutions exclusively took place in countries without a proletariat.This would be the theoretical equivalent of the germ theory of disease failing to find any microbes under the microscope.Your basic mechanism of action is clearly wrong, therefore the theory is worthless to anyone who isn't a silly and easily dismissed romantic.>Russ...!90% seasonal laborers migrating from their farms to cities for a summer stint in the factory then returning back home does not constitute a "proletariat" class. No Bolshevik called Russia theoretical ideal or even close to the theoretical ideal.
Glad to know I triggered a few of you subhuman marxist retards. Try reading a few serious thinkers and see why he was a philosophical child, instead of sticking to babbys first theory of everything.
>>24943284If we were to truly apply such a standard, no theory in the social sciences would survive. Not a single one, as the world is far more complex than any theory can allow and they all end up mistaken. Everyone, and I mean absolutely everyone, has for the last century understood the need to investigate and explain what took place, but if you do care to learn about his relationship with the Russians there's this short text you can read:https://www.marxists.org/archive/deutscher/1948/marx-russia.htm His daughter Eleanor recognized the Narodniks' importance too back in 1883:https://www.marxists.org/archive/eleanor-marx/1883/08/underground-russia.htmCertainly, it would make no sense to call anything scientific if we treated it as revelation. It's open to change.
>>24943268>Marxoids can't handle [theory that was proven wrong by advances in food production]
>>24943370>well actually everyone is wrongconcession: accepted
>>24943375You misunderstand, not-anti-marxist-kun. If you admit the economic principles described by Marx were correct and still hold, the one making a concession is you.
>>24943268Yes Marx wrote multiple chapters in Capital about the economics of food. You didn’t know that because you didn’t read him. He was absolutely correct about the power of technology. Did you know that from 2013-2025 the United States literally doubled its agricultural production despite not nearly doubling its population? You didn’t know that either. It’s hard to argue with facts!>>24943366Erm, Marxism is the study of dialectical materialism. You’re confusing that with communist nation state building ideologues like Stalin, Ho Chi Minh, Sankara etc. Aren’t you embarrassed to be posting on /lit/ without having read a book?> Try reading a few serious thinkers Like I said you had 200 years to refute Marx and all Milton and the other sissies could do was shut their diapers and cry>noooooo why is the rate profit fallingggg>erm, shlomobergstein here, i have a brilliant idea: we need to print more money to stimulate the economy and fund more wars to recoup the losses so we can print more money to start more wars and pocket the the difference so we canYawn. Marx already predicted this 200 years ago down to a T.
More importantly, why are Marxoids fine with the environment being destroyed if the proleniggers get more money?
>>24943401Erm, its capitalists that are destroying the environment thoughbeit
>>24943401Many are saying that no one is saying this.
>>24943409Neither care about the environment.
>yeah the revolution is gonna happen in an industrialized country like germany of britain or however the fische is gefülted
>>24943420t. MTW tranny
>>24943426You may or may not like Maoists, but they are certainly more successful than other sects of Marxism.
>>24943385Marx couldn't even get basic ethics right. Nietzsche btfo'd that faggot over 100 years ago.
>>24943451Ethics are bourgeoisie nonsense o algo
>>24943451Marx didn’t write about ethics he wrote textbooks full of math. Flip to a random page of volume 3 especially, we don’t rely on rhetoric we rely on materialist analysis of history. Calm down and dilate please you seem to be having a panic attack the way you keep desperately shifting gears as I systemically dismantle your arguments like my comrades will dismantle your children’s spines from their heads.
>>24943247Marx predicted an "Oedipal" Capital, toward imposed austerity, asceticism, abstinence, etc. Capital's only injunction is to enjoy. He was wrong (and gay). Marx predicted a continuation of the then-opposition (?) between labor and free time. Free time has been totally colonized by labor (in no small part due to Marxist imbeciles). He was wrong (and gay). Marx predicted the utmost importance of production in all global matter. Arguably the first proactively global event, the war on terror, featured a huge production gap, not only did one side barely produce, but it was also globally sanctioned so it can be said to have suffered from "negative production"; nevertheless, the productive side decisively lost the war. He was wrong (and gay).
>>24943247>>24944013Ultimately, Marx's Catholicism (paganism) is to blame for all the failed predictions. In Marx, there is an implicit Jungian/oriental/pre-Philosophical sacred balance between Capital, or the signifier, and what it, duly or unduly, stands for, or the signified. Thus, if the signifier misbehaves, there will eventually be an inevitable reaction of the signified that brings it back in line. All Philosophy, however, and chiefly Christianity, as THE Philosophy, has exposed this kind of thinking as nothing but wishful.
>>24944013>Marx predicted an "Oedipal" Capital, toward imposed austerity, asceticism, abstinence, etc. Capital's only injunction is to enjoyi don't care at all about the correctness of predictions, but surely austerity, asceticism and abstinence are fundamental parts of the common-sense ideology we're all living under? do you seriously think that capital's only injunction is to enjoy, or was that just empty Zizekian rhetoric? it seems so detached from reality that i don't even know where to begin. counterexamples would be infinite.
>>24944040The only one, yes. Even literal austerity, say post-2008 EU, was not imposed as austerity. The decree was never "do not enjoy", but "enjoy precisely this lack since it is a testament to the superior EU Governance". If we are forced to entertain Psychology here, this, most of all, accounts for the austerity scandal, never the material lack; the latter, "actual austerity", is just a quantitative variation of "no austerity", while the former, the injunction to enjoy it, is the true crime.
>>24943225I'm gonna stand on your throat
>>24943220How is this an argument?
>>24943449They're also smelly brown people >>24943452>why yes toddler rape is perfectly acceptable wdym?
>>24941550No. They're thinkers. I'm the doer, I'll test the ideas and if they fail, it's on me and my discernment that I had trusted them.
>>24944172Marxists are still mindbroken by Israel not siding with the USSR.
>>24941550Are these specific predictions or I speak in riddles for plausible deniability when they don't work kind of predictions? Most people aren't willing to say November 8, 2029. You end up sounding like Jehovah's Witnesses.
>>24943208What you're really describing is when robots output so much food and luxuries that it all costs pennies which you can get by pet sitting for a rich person once a month.Even when it comes to housing land scarcity is overestimated as a factor and the ballooning costs of building to a higher standard with codes is underestimated so it will also be relatively plentiful due to robots, not pennies but not a lifetime of labour either.The competitive types will be forced to resort to struggling to accumulate wealth for collectibles, things with value beyond the material or work that went into it, like the dragon dildo Elvis had.
To make theory hold in reality is to destroy reality. Everyone read on their own terms is 100% correct every single time.
>>24944204The competitive types will find other ways of extracting and exercising power and status.
>>24943370Expecting the course of events to roughly, even 20% of the time follow the fundamental mechanism of action which the theory postulates is not an unreasonable bar to set. There were not proletarian revolutions in a framework based entirely upon the emergence of the proletariat, therefore the theory is wrong.That it gained popularity amoung other groups like peasants because it spoke to their wants needs does not make it any more correct/true than anti-vaxxer theories becoming popular amoung backwoods retards.Popularity and truth have a correlation of 0. Only predictive power tells you whether a theory is true.
>>24941550Not really, because ideally you are rolling your own theory based on other's theories. Just saying, but what someone did in some different context will hardly translate literally to your own context.
