Do you ever feel ashamed of being so desperate for attention you make bait threads like this?
>>24944446I hope they take inspiration from this too
>>24944446Asked AI how her translation was received critically by classicists:> A number of specialist reviewers (notably Richard Whitaker in Acta Classica) argued Wilson sometimes shifts the balance of sympathy in ways that they felt were produced by interpretive re-wording rather than the Greek itself — e.g. making Odysseus look more reprehensible or re-presenting some “underdog” characters sympathetically — and they accused her of occasional distortion.> Critics like Colin Burrow (LRB) welcomed many aspects of her modernising moves but warned that translating Homer’s stock epithets as free phrases (rather than fixed formulaic tags) changes the effect and can amount to an interpretive commentary rather than a neutral rendering.> Some classicists and readers also find the iambic pentameter occasionally stilted or less “epic” than free-verse renderings — this is more a stylistic debate among scholars than a claim about accuracyIn summary though:> Short answer: among professional classicists and philologists the reception has been broadly positive but contested.
>>24944446>>24944482Everyone who can read Greek thinks Wilson's translation is good, even great at times. It's hilarious the amount of rubes that will, with a straight-face, pipe-up their non-Greek uttering wind-pipe and critique a Greek translation.
no translation can save Nolan from himself lolalso, you angloids may have milked this nobody translator long enough now
>>24944482Lol, Grok responded with this list:Positive Reception:- Madeline Miller (classicist, author of Circe; Washington Post review)- Josephine Balmer (classicist and poet; New Statesman)- Marguerite Johnson (professor of classics, University of Sydney; Australian Book Review)- Mary Lefkowitz (professor emerita, Wellesley College; implied via broader acclaim)- Barbara Graziosi (professor, Princeton University)- Gregory Hayes (classicist)Critical Reception:- Richard Whitaker (professor of classics, University of Alberta; academic review)- Anonymous
>>24944495Nolan filters plebs like you.
>>24944492https://www.compactmag.com/article/emily-wilson-s-sack-of-homer/
>>24944507>"Everyone who can read Greek thinks Wilson's translation is good, even great at times.">Links a critical review by someone that can't read Greek, let alone recognize meter in English.
>>24944507This review is written by a woman btw>The internet is littered with admiring—and sometimes perceptive—articles claiming that Wilson’s Odyssey contextualizes it “within our current political climate” or “engages the characters’ moral ambiguity in a more critical way.” Wilson herself has been quoted as saying that she is “making visible the cracks in the patriarchal fantasy.” Maybe so. But it’s impossible to simultaneously hold that Wilson’s translation critiques patriarchy, and that she has rendered the text faithfully, without violating the law of noncontradiction. What did Homer know of the contemporary political climate or the “patriarchal fantasy”? Wilson’s work can, and probably does, successfully advance a radical undertaking of erasing the old myths and writing new ones. This wouldn’t necessarily be ignoble if the process weren’t being obfuscated, but there is something brutal about taking a classic work, rewriting it against its own grain, and then passing it off as true to the original.
>>24944446>Ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, Μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·>πολυτροπον = of-many turns"Complicated" is a poetically inferior translation compared to, say, Fagles "of twists and turns", but she didn't make it up. Translating euphemisms like that is not easy. Wilson went for a direct approach, Fagles for a poetic one. She is a professor, he a poet. I didn't read her translation, and I do not have any interest in doing so, but neither did (You) or any of the people complaining on Twitter. I will not be watching the movie. Christopher Nolan is a terrible director. I'm content letting the dudebros and pseuds have it, the movie, and their outrage.
>>24944492It may be good (for a woman), but was it necessary?
>>24944522Your first statement is obviously hyperbole. It's also irrelevant because the classicists that praise her translation *do not praise it for fidelity*. They praise it for making Homer "new", "modern", and "readable", this is ubiquitous in every favorable review. In other words, they praise making Homer more palpable to modern audiences. But Homer almost always used elevated Greek, though, not conversational, so the very crux of the project undercuts Homer just as any translation of Shakespeare seeking to render him into everyday speech misses the point that Shakespeare, except for some passages of prose, wrote in literary language, not conversational.
>>24944522Also I don't know what this point is about meter in English. Wilson was hardly the first translator of Homer to use iam ic pentameter, there have been several, and Rodney Merrill even tries his hand at English dactylic hexameter translations which are quite enjoyable and far more faithful than Wilson
>Guys live like this and think it's okay.
>>24944644those non-greek civilizations that Homer kept shitting on had it pretty comfy
>>24944446The medium is the message, and this time it has been twisted by the fickle mind of a woman. Applause may be directed towards her from the common crowd but not merit nor respect
>>24944463
>playtime is overis such a great translation of it because it not only signals the end of the archery contest, but also signals odysseus return as the patriarch to the house and that playtime is over for the immature unmarried suitors as well as for his son
>>24944446How is her translation going to differ in any significant way in terms of the events narrated? It's a movie adaptation, the lowest form of entertainment barring vidya, all that matters to it is the story, the aesthetic experience simply changing with the change in medium. I probably read that simply because it is the most readily available one nowadays
>>24944482>Asked AI>>24944496> Lol, Grok respondedAsk your chatbots how you can kill yourself.
>>24944533Direct would be Verity>Tell me, Muse, of the man of many turnsWilson's isn't direct since it intentionally imports baggage if her choice in order to transform Odysseus's defining characteristic--craftiness, cunning, and skill at lying--into something more everyday that women say as a euphemism for things like infidelity or feeling turned on after being maltreated or to describe a man who is repugnant that they find alluring. Odysseus is the grandson of Autolycus and inherited his skill at trickery
>>24944482>the reception has been broadly positive but contestedthanks for the oxymoron, you useless waste of circuitry
>>24944446>incelWhat does you being a newfag and a nigger have to do with literature?
>>24944446Who gives a fuck what an incel thinks, they are all autistic and don't understand emotion anyways.https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/mandel-alek-minassians-autism-left-him-unable-to-know-the-wrongfulness-of-his-van-attack-lawyer-says
>>24944888
>>24944875
>>24944446oh I'm just getting started
Its not even a bad translation, /lit/ is in an uproar over literally nothing
>>24945344your newfag ass spamming buzzwords does not mean "/lit/" is in an "uproar" about anything
>>24945167okay? why should we care? maybe if you weren't such a pussy this wouldn't be front page news.
>>24944492>Everyone who can read Greek thinks Wilson's translation is good, even great at times.Everyone who has seen the Emperor thinks his new clothes are good, even great at times.
>>24944446I will accept any criticism of her translation which is made in Greek.
>>24944492>the holy town of Troy
>>24945747Kek gottem. /lit/ is just mad that a woman is acclaimed the greatest translator of Homer, by every academic, rather than a man
>>24945776I'm sure it has its flaws, every translation does, but I'd like to hear criticisms from people who actually know Greek.
>>24944446>Written by a womanEh, just another round of trash.
>>24945793>>>/pol/
>>24944495this desuNolan is an overly literal reptile-brained angloid autist. Even if his Odyssey film had stellar casting and costume/set design it would still suck because every film he makes is like a sterile Lexus commercial
>>24945344>Its not even a bad translationYes, yes it is. It was contrived on purpose to "de-centre maleness" from Homer. Every ambiguous word regarding Odysseus she chooses one with a negative connotation. She also writes in a n incredibly simplified contemporary style that is not poetry, and that removes all of the epic or antiquated feeling that should be present in any good translation of Homer.
>>24945785One does not need to know Homeric Greek in order to criticise her translation. There is a whole tradition of Homer-English translation starting centuries ago and none are as far from the feel and text as hers is. I've read 34 different translations of the Illiad and Odyssey and Emily Wilson's "translation" is essentially a contemporary adaptation with a twist on the original (Odysseus as a fool and a bad person).
>>24945831>One does not need to know Homeric Greek in order to criticise her translation.You heard it here: You don't need to understand the original language to criticize a translation.>There is a whole tradition of Homer-English translation starting centuries ago and none are as far from the feel and text as hers is.How do you know the feel and text of the original if you don't read Greek?
>>24945834Anyone can see the text on Perseus project and get a word-for-word lexicography. As for pronouncing the words, it is easier than English in terms of phonics.
>>24944446I'm an incel, and my playtime is over.
>>24945795I accept your concession, faggot.
>>24944535>It may be good (for a woman), but was it necessary?No
>>24944492This isnt true, her translations are okay.
Will he include the scene where Telemachus executes the maids? That's all I care about.
>>24945837That doesn't mean you know anything about Greek grammar or style.
>>24947001Greek grammar seems irrelevant here because it can't possibly be transposed to English since their grammar isn't based on syntaxGreek style in a precise sense is unknown since it was musical. We can speak of Homeric style, such as using very extended smilies, and repetitious epithets
>>24947007What I mean is that other languages are not just reskins of English and merely knowing the individual words and what inflected forms they take is not enough to say you have any real knowledge of the language.
>>24947031It's enough to tell when gross liberties have been taken.
The translation is not awful and remains, whether one likes it or not, a progress on the sole text chosen as its basis but there remain much superior alternatives, including among the more traditional ones, Fagles, Rieu revised, and in a more “democratic” style Lombardo and Green. A fine example, taken from Gilleland's post of last Wednesday, was about ἐυπλόκαμος, which literally means “fair-tressed” (sc. with lovely hair), rendered by Wilson first as “pigtailed” (7.41) and then by “with cornrows in her hair” (5.126) which are both ridiculous. It's also not a good practice to translate the same word differently when it occurs twice, unless the context requires an alteration of the meaning. Wilson is wildly inconsistent when it comes to formulaic epithets (which should always been rendered the same way in English). The famous ῥοδοδάκτυλος appears twenty times and Wilson gives twenty different meanings.
>>24947043Where has Wilson taken gross liberties?
Isn't her translation like a third the size of most from her dumbing down on it? When it was first released I felt this was a far more damning criticism than her calling odysseus a colonizer or whatever, which is bad but easy to wave away as only happening a couple of times.
>>24947051In the excerpt above for example, she completely excises σφετέρῃσιν ἀτασθαλίῃσιν
citing an ai overview should be bannable
Is this the thread where people will point out issues with her retranslation and then people disingenuously pretend none exist?
>>24947060It was written by a woman, the issues started immediately there. People pretend none exist because browns and women use the internet now and continually pretend that white Western civilization isn't the only human civilization worth having on the planet.
>>24947068Chinese and Japs have some kino
>>24944482AI reponses should warrant a permaban kill yourself you cocksucking faggot
>>24948477What's your argument? That AI post is literally more intelligent and meaningful than your post.
