Renaissance edition>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·>>24914151>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw>Mέγα τὸ ANE·https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg>Work in progress FAQhttps://rentry dot co/n8nrkoAll Classical languages are welcome.
primus! (inter pares)
this is classical languages related
>>24956791Judica me, Deus, et discerne causam meam de gente non sancta: ab homine iniquo, et doloso erue me.
mihi videtur filum latinam discere linguam incipientibus plenum esse
>>24956856tirones multos Cicerones paucos mos est
>>24956791percolantur
Is there a good text to speech for ancient Latin and not modern Church Latin?
>>24956791Anime girl in Greek clothes =De Bialos de erota
>>24957057Doubt it. We neither a big corpus of recordings, nor even really a good source for vowel lengths of individual words, much less whole texts.
>>24956436People who post an image with zero relevance to their post pollute the thread in question and should go back to /b/ where they belong. No wonder you need a mnemonic for "Latin case order" you fucking brainlet. kys
>>24956791>>24956856>>24956919attention whoring retard
>>24957119vapula
>>24957111>>24957119Who hurt you?
>>24957128>>24957130kys faggot/woman
>I need a mnemonic to remember that nominative case is stated first.Maybe you shouldn't be learning Latin. It's not for brainlets.
>I keep forgetting to unzip my pants before I pee.literally you
>>24957138You are making more posts and taking up more of the finite thread room to bitch about that “attention seeking” guy fyi
I don't get it. Am I getting filtered? Does anyone understand the Vedic Texts at all?
>>24957132numne Karen tibi nomen? estne volup oras ventitare ubi ranarum cattorumque plerumque mitti imagines solent?
>>24957146fuck off
>>24957169Nomen est Karen. He got u bich
>>24957155reading an English translation has fuckall to do with classical languages, fuck off
> Sven decides to pester /clg/ after getting (rightfully) bullied in /lang/>>24957155I know, the suggestion was to read some texts in translation first, I know, but this has got to be the worst choice for starting out. It wasn't even written in classical Sanskrit, so your course won't prepare you for it.Personally I would start out with the Bhagavad Gita, but I haven't read a sentence of Sanskrit in my life, translated or not.>>24957163> imagoCum videas, lateres cacabis.
>>24957178Tu nomen trahit a Karen kekekkekek
>>24957178en vobis Ciceronulus! qui autem anglice tantum valet verbis!
>>24956717Here is a nice little video on the Hippocratic corpus and equivalent Chinese texts.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u1RHCarlm5c&pp=ygUuaGVhbHRoIGFuZCBoZWFsaW5nIGluIGFuY2llbnQgZ3JlZWNlIGFuZCBjaGluYQ%3D%3DIt’s a general overview but also has some linguistics in it. The Chinese method of medicine could be considered more backwards than their Greek equivalent because Greeks distinguished between the world of “Physis” and the supernatural (On Sacred disease is a good text on this where supernatural elements are taken out of medicine) whereas Chinese held everything to be one ie Wu.
vagit plorator quidam va va
>>24957214nicethey mention childbirth and female's relation with it but I'd imagine in the military too there would be some kind of natural affinity for the development of a proto-science of healing, I mean in the Iliad itself there seem to be such link when e.g Menelaos gets wounded in the thigh and IIRC some guy in the army is called who had received this knowledge which was divine yet it still involved pharmaka being applied to the spot
>>24957957>Menelaos gets wounded in the thigh It’s interesting you mention this. There are three forms of soul/ spirit (psyche, thumos and nous). I believe he is wounded in his knee and one of them flies out but then returns? I read this in a book on Greek conception of soul and medicine and it explained that this form of the soul (psyche I believe) was tied more towards life in general rather than aggression/ spiritedness (thumos) or intellect (nous). Ie Menelaus wasn’t dead yet his Psyche left his body for a bit It’s all sort of interesting
>>24956571Hold your horses bud, I just pirated the .pdf and I’m gonna read it first.
>>24957180>It wasn't even written in classical SanskritMaybe the reader just wants to engage with ancient Aryan culture instead of jeet myth.
>>24957057This is a traditional Italian pronunciation general, as the Holy Father who is also ruler of Rome made standard in the early 20th century. I hear Reddit has great resources for people like you, you should post there instead.
It’s really baffling to me that I find Plautus easier to read than the average post in Latin online. My copy of Beeson’s medieval anthology arrived and I am greatly enjoying it. Medieval Latin ended up being far more readable than people made it out to be, I guess “bad Latin” is just straightforward writing half the time. 10/10. Glad to move on from Romans engaging in technically-not-sodomy and all the child-beating in LLPSI to more serious matters like King Arthur slaying giants. Medieval poetry is peak. Dies Irae and “drinking song” are the greatest Latin verse ever composed. It helps immensely to already have a background in religious and medieval-historical vocabulary because that’s like 75% of the “new” vocabulary.
>>24957977he gets hit in the upper thigh next to where girdle fastened the body armor, the arrow doesn't pass through either but stops in place, then they call Machaon son of the famed doctor Asklepios(φῶτ’ Ἀσκληπιοῦ υἱὸν ἀμύμονος ἰητῆρος) who performs the extraction* and after sucking the blood out puts some "medicines" on it to stop the pain(φάρμαχ’ ἅ κεν παύσῃσι μελαινάων ὀδυνάων)*>αὐτίκα δ’ ἐκ ζωστῆρος ἀρηρότος ἕλκεν ὀϊστόν·>τοῦ δ’ ἐξελκομένοιο πάλιν ἄγεν ὀξέες ὄγκοι.>...>αὐτὰρ ἐπεὶ ἴδεν ἕλκος ὅθ’ ἔμπεσε πικρὸς ὀϊστός,>αἷμ’ ἐκμυζήσας ἐπ’ ἄρ’ ἤπια φάρμακα εἰδὼς>πάσσε, τά οἵ ποτε πατρὶ φίλα φρονέων πόρε Χείρωνin particular the medicine was seemingly given to his father by Cheiron who is the centaur who also taught Achilles and other heroes
>>24956717I hate these AI "paintings" and "photos" that are on wikipedia now.
>>24958200>Dies Irae and “drinking song” are the greatest Latin verse ever composedYou may be right. Also about the translation thing. Latin online comes out so stilted. That's why I love reading the NT, because it's so crisp in comparison.
>>24958737Everyone’s trying and failing to mimic Cicero.
>>24958200I wonder if Latin would have thrived better in the modern era if the Gesta Romanorum were the standard for style rather than Cicero. There are obvious aesthetic differences between the two, but is there anything we wouldn't be able to communicate in the style of>quidam princeps erat qui multum delectabatur venari?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N8IPz_J5HgIt's up>CAPTCHA: MGOY
>>24958729That is a nice excerpt and very interesting. Thanks for sharing. What I was thinking of is that I can’t recall who it was but I remember Achilles mortally wounding someone and their psyche or nous leaves their body for a bit but is then returned after they are healed from the injury? I looked it up but I can’t recall without going back and looking who it was this happened to.
>>24959885ah, I think you might be referring to Sarpedon in book 5, he faces Tlepolemos, both hit each other, Tlepolemos dies, Sarpedon is badly wounded in the leg, is brought away from battle and there's these lines>His comrades then bore Sarpedon away and laid him beneath Jove's spreading oak tree. Pelagon, his friend and comrade drew the spear out of his thigh, but Sarpedon fainted and a mist came over his eyes. Presently he came to himself again, for the breath of the north wind as it played upon him gave him new life, and brought him out of the deep swoon into which he had fallen."fainted" is a translation of τὸν δ’ ἔλιπε ψυχή so ψυχή literally left him, then came back with the wind, giving him back that which he had breathed out(this is supposedly the meaning of κεκαφηότα referring to θυμόν)in the Iliad it's still all very physical, there's also lines like ψυχὴ δὲ κατ’ οὐταμένην ὠτειλὴν ἔσσυτ’ ἐπειγομένη, τὸν δὲ σκότος ὄσσε κάλυψε, i.e the ψυχὴ leaving the body through the wound and signifying death
Is studying Sanskrit academically a good idea? Seems like the opportunities are few when compared to Classics
>>24959960>Is studying academically a good idea?no
>>24960164>getting paid to write blogposts is le bad
>>24959602Fr. Most makes the argument that, like literally all synthetic languages, it’s likely that Latin was less complex and synthetic and more analytical in spoken usage. So his pedagogy was way more focused on heavy use of prepositions to prepare for reading Late Latin first. Considering that Latin grown from this later form was totally dominant for 1000 years of written language in Europe, and that it rapidly declined as the focus became more about classical idiom and Ciceronian rigidity (one renaissance Italian said Cicero was literally perfect and some said any word or construction that couldn’t be found in Cicero was bad Latin). This crippled and limited form of the language, stripped of its grammatical clarity, its precision, and its rich vocabulary, just couldn’t continue adapting to new challenges like it had for 1000 years before and naturally failed. Ironically these often anti-clerical classicists turned Latin into far more of a rigid “sacred language” than it had ever really been before.
>>24960264>Fr. Most makes the argument that, like literally all synthetic languages, it’s likely that Latin was less complex and synthetic and more analytical in spoken usage.but is that true? are Russian/Polish like that? I have studied only a tiny bit of Russian so I can't say much
>>24961073Nigga use your brain for like 30 seconds. Do people on here write like they do in essays or do they not? Do people IRL speak like they write in essays or do they not? Is conversational speech more formulaic (periphrastic) or is it not? You don’t need me to explain this to you, go throw your question into an AI and have it spell it out for you.I understand the nuance of what you’re asking I just think it’s a distraction from the core discussion and that you should look it up on your own. You have my affection.
>>24961301that's not what was said, butthurt local Karen, formulaic is one thing, analytic is another pair of gloves, I was hoping some Slavic speaker native or not, since they are the ones who have kept their languages more cases-heavy, would confirm their day to day speech patterns are more analytic
>>24961073But I should clarify that I’m not speaking of languages becoming more analytical and periphrastic over time, rather I am speaking of the difference between contemporaneous literary and spoken/common registers.For example, Plautus, who wrote centuries before Cicero, includes normal conversation where there is increased usage of prepositions, a preference for simpler syntax, and periphrastic experessions; this is strong evidence that such a style of Latin was probably the norm outside of the highly literary register of the Golden Age works. At the very least, people didn’t speak like Cicero when talking about going to the market or watching a gladiator match with their friends.When it comes to Fr. Most, he basically argues that Late Latin, in some ways, was less of a mutation of Latin than people in the 60s believed, but rather just a less poetic/stylized register with much freer usage because it was oriented more towards practical communication. You combine that with a much larger vocabulary and you get an overall more normal and usable language than if you restrict the corpus just to the golden and silver ages.However much of the medieval register does represent an outright evolution from Late Latin, so I wouldn’t go as far as saying the Gesta Romanorum would be a good basis for usable Latin, but the other anons point that it would probably be much easier to use is almost certainly true.
>>24961308>>I understand the nuance of what you’re asking>formulaic is one thing, analytic is another pair of gloves,I know.
>>24961308My last post on this digression will simply be that I was making an absolute statement because I am using 4chan, when I would more properly have stated a general trend or rule with exceptions in other contexts.
>>24961320what got my attention was the statement about this being a general feature of synthetic languages, common-speech => more analyticI've read 4-5 of Plautus' comedies, of course the language is less "monumental" so to speak compared to Cicero's, naturally, though I'm not sure I'd use the term more "analytical", it's not something I noticed insofar as heavier prepositional usage, after all, the synthetic vs analytic divide isn't per se related to literal refinement and if anything one rather sees the opposite trend in Europe, literacy leading to more analytic languages
Translation challenge:EasyLet's go fishing!Give him some bread.Regrettably I forgot what she said.MediumYesterday we had to march for six hours.After a long run, the messenger barged in and announced the end of the war.If the kids had listened to their mother's advice, they wouldn't have gotten lost in the caves.HardWith the goal of reaching the island before noon and prevent the enemies from seizing the port by arriving there first, he hastened with his troops to the secret bay where his fleet was waiting for him, but to his horror, the storm from two days earlier had destroyed the majority of his ships for good with no time to repair a sufficient number of them.
>>24961514eamus piscatum!panicellum ei daincommode oblitus sum quorum dixit illasex horas heri iter facere necesse fuit nobislonge cursu progressus nuntius intus devolavit et finem belli nuntiavitsi aures praebuissent matris praeceptis pueri in speluncas non deerrassentCum sibi proposuisset ad insulam pervenire ante meridiem et hostes portu arcere priore suomet adventu, magnis itineribus copias ad sinum duxit abditum ubi sua classis eum expectabat at, magno cum horrore, invenit magnam eius partem dirutam a procella duobus ante diebus orta nullo temporis spatio relicto ut satis magna eorum copia reficeretur
Why is Marcus such a shithead?
>>24961747Marcus is a legend. You need to read the colloquium about him fighting Sextus. Sextus couldn’t handle the bants, Diodorus couldn’t handle the bants.
>>24958200Once you get used to him, Plautus is so easy.
3rd declension adjectives (latin) fucking suck. I don't have a question I just wanted to vent about how much I hate them, it feels like they exist just to trip me up.
>>24961514Piscemur!Da ei panem.Infeliciter quid illa dixerit oblitus sum.Heri sex horas iter facere nobis necesse fuit.Longo cursu facto, nuntius irrupit et finem belli nuntiavit.Si liberi matris consilio paruissent, in speluncis non erravissent.Ille cum copiis suis ad sinum occultum, ubi classis eum expectabat, contendit eo consilio ut insulam ante meridiem attingeret et hostibus obstaret ne prius advenientes portum occuparent; verum animo consternatus comperit tempestatem adeo magnam partem navium perdidisse ut ad tempus satis earum refici non posset.
Why are Sanskrit texts so kino, if modern India is repugnant?
>>24962271Kys brainlet
>>24959810rollan
>>24962491istas nugas barbaras non intellego. quisnam tu es?
>>24960264As likely everyone in this thread already knows, Petronius arbiter is considered the standard for the so called Vulgar Latin and there are many words and phrases which outright just aren’t found anywhere else in all of Latin literature.
>>24962980>Gaussis nova demonstratio theorematis omnem functionem algebraicam rationalem integram unius variabilis in factores reales primi vel secundi gradus resolvi posseFortuna secunda mathematicis ipse operulam dedi universitate et quamquam theorema hoc valde notum est etiam quibus "scholas superiores" perfecerunt ut dicuntur, Gaussis demonstratio profecto non parvi momenti est ut facile legatur: ipse adhuc fere nihil legi de mathematicis latine, et eam ob rem aliquot obfuerunt mihi legenti, sicut exempli gratia verbum "metior" quo Gauss "divisio" significare vult, sed quoque notatio m^ti quid sibi vellet ignorabam, sed ut videtur signum est genetivi, fortasse adhibitum ne confusio fit cum necesse sit litteris uti a, b, c, α, β, γ, ...etc ut numeri denotenturvellem nihilo secus olim Euclidis elementa Graece legere, aliquantillum saltem
>>24960264Here is a very good example (perfect almost) of the likely differences between Vulgar Latin of the streets and lower classes as opposed to the polished and refined words of Cicero.>(7) quicquid habui in illius sinum demandavi, nec unquam fefellitus sumIe fefellitus sum for falsus sum. The character who says this is from the streets and contrasts sharply with his erudite and learned party guests.
cerritust
>>24963229Fuck off
>>24963263Kalle? why is he so triggered by anime and frog pictures on an anime and frogs image-board?
>>24959810Rollang
>>24963284No, some other guy who's upset about anime and irrelevant lust provoking images to the point of creating his own failed thread, and now reduced to spamming the general telling people to kill themselves.Mods might delete this post as well, but I felt it my duty to exonerate Kalle.
>>24963293>Quo te merentem carmine prosequar Non falsus aut somno petita Materia, sine teste, inani?si ceciderit lignum in silva, et nemo circum ad auditum, hoc facit sonus;
>>24959810Roll
>>24963309Reminder that the Catholic Church recently adopted an anime girl as its mascot, thus canonically linking the Latin language and anime. No image could be more relevant to /clg/ than that of an anime girl.
>>24963804lmao. funny to imagine the spanish sailors' perspective.
>>24961073>but is that true?No>are Russian/Polish like that?No>>24961308I'm Polish and I don't even really know how that would work. Do you mean replacing a declined noun with a preposition plus the noun in nominative? Which preposition would one even use? The one that happens to work in English? So instead of saying:Piszę ołówkiem. (I write with a pencil.)you think an "everyday speech" version should be:Piszę... z ołówek ???This is very dumb and there is no reason why anyone would speak like this. It's not "simpler" in any way, other than maybe to a foreign learner, but why would that translate to the usage of the language by native speakers? Any retard, homeless drunkard or whoever else, is perfectly able to decline their nouns without even realizing that they're doing it or why they're doing it. I don't get why this is such a difficult concept for monolingual Anglos to imagine. (And I don't mean to insult you who asked that question, but those "academics" who are writing textbooks in which they declare that the Romans couldn't possibly have spoken the same Latin that we're learning because how could they possibly be able to decline their nouns in real time).Also, what in the hell are those captchas
>>24963914interesting, it's kinda easy to imagine that if the Spanish had disappeared maybe they would've continued this as a kind of religion and centuries later it would not be easy to distinguish from ancient religions with gods from the sky, offerings, etc... all mythicized, which in turn makes one wonder about ancient religions themselvesinteresting to see that y- , I recall it in Dante as well, not sure how they started getting confused with those
>>24958737My vote for best Medieval Latin- I love both the words and songhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TL1xSxFfh_I&list=RDTL1xSxFfh_I&start_radio=1&pp=ygUSbm9tZW4gYSBzb2xlbW5pYnVzoAcB
>>24964150Yeah there’s a lot of odd spellings. The other thing is a lot of medieval-neo latin has much freer usage of ex/pre-fixes and more compound words, but they seem straightforward.
Why are the middle ages so peak bros? I feel like in these stories I’m reading something written by my own people. It’s far less alien than Classical texts.It’s so funny how the Golden-Dark-Rebirth model got ported from Christian medieval eschatology and created this bizarre cultish attitude towards the Classical age, like Rome was an Eden of culture relative to the Sodom of medieval Europe. The Romans are our revered and honored ancestors, but they are not us. The more and more you study classical history with an eye to grasping the classical spirit the more you peel back the similarities between artistic motifs and discover a fundamentally different civilization. The inverse happens with the medievals, where when you look beyond surface level political symbols you find that the fundamental spirit is our own civilizational soul, of a more energetic and youthful type compared to our current age.If looking at classical or gothic/norse civilization is like reading your late father’s memoirs or letters, reading the medievals is like being an old man, fixated on how like his father he has become, suddenly finding his own dusty journals from when he was a young man and reading them, seeing what makes him himself.
>>24964381Collapse of Empire and the formation and develop of regional identities. Add religiosity, faustian spirit, Darwinian pressures and we are at kino
I can now read Devanagari... Aryan wisdom here I come!
>>24964922I got filtered by the devanagari. It's so difficult to actually write those squiggles and make them look good. What did you do in terms of writing practice?
>>24965164I am using the Cambridge Introduction to Sanskrit + the /clg/ FAQ for Sanskrit.The Cambridge Introduction has an online learning environment with flashcards:>https://www.brainscape.com/l/dashboard/cambridge-introduction-to-sanskrit-7171388/decksI also use: (particularly for the sounds)>https://enjoylearningsanskrit.com/Additional input: (besides the book)>https://learnsanskrit.org/guide/and this professor's course:>https://sites.rutgers.edu/edwin-bryant/sanskrit-course-videos/I write whilst speaking and do drills. I randomly think of sounds during the day, and try to find the right characters to write them. I start easy, do I remember a? e? da? etcBeen doing it for 3 days or so now and I am pretty good at it now
>>24965239>>https://enjoylearningsanskrit.com/also I listen exclusively to TL music >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZvrqbrBxt8&list=PLQtFvdDCoY02WUMVqqiZW8eMzaMndIl9O
Anyone with knowledge of Plautus know what “seeds” actually means here? It ties into the conversation concluded here >>24961336 since it’s tracing an essential and common construction I’ve seen all the time in the vulgate. So my question is to what degree do the characters in Plautus’s works do something like this? Does this point towards everyday speech even in the classical period having less infinitive+accusative construction and more “quia…” type phrasing?
>>24965428Forgot pic
>>24965429interesting, I didn't notice it in Plautus so far though, but I haven't read all of it
inspired by >>24959810 I made this for Ancient Greek anons
>>24965164Eoƿ cnaƿe 𑀤𑁂𑀯𑀦𑀸𑀕𑀭𑀻 is naƿiht efn þe scripto 𑀲𑀁𑀲𑁆𑀓𑀾𑀢 ƿæs originally ƿriten in, riht? Eoƿ cann perfectlice ƿel justo leorna hit in IΑ𑀲T gif eoƿ vanta.
>>24966875κλῆρον πάλλω
>>24967065>Ippocrates' On the Nature of Women(Περί γυναικείης φύσιος)>On the topic of the nature of women and their illnesses I say this: first of all the divine is most responsible in human conditions, then their nature and their complexion: exceedingly white women are more supple and fluxy(?? I guess if opposed to the dark ones as follows, it means more subject to change i.e less stable?), the dark ones sturdier/stiffer and harsher/austere, the ruddy somewhere in the middle. Likewise with age: the younger are more supple and full of blood* for the most part, the older drier/leaner and with little blood, those inbetween somewhere in the middle. Whosoever intends to treat these matters right must first of all start from the divine, then analyze the physical condition of the women, the ages, the seasons and the places in which they find themselves, for in cold places they are more fluxy, in warm ones drier/leaner and stabler. I'll start my exposition from the conditions of moistness.*I assume fullness and its opposite maybe refer or are brought up because they affect behaviors?
>>24966875Εὐχαριστῶ.
>>24966875Does anyone know if Dr. Ammon Hillman a good source on learning Ancient Greek?
>>24967297isn't that the guy with weird interpretations about the NT including jesus being a child trafficker or something? I'm no christian but that seems quite an outrageous interpretation of the scriptures
>>24967356Yeah. I'm not a christian myself nor do I have any issue with it, so I take what he says..with a grain of salt. But I did see his course in ancient greek. So I was wondering.
Does any CC learner know more about this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_DarknessI always thought Chinese is the one big classical languages that doesn't have any long-ass epic poems, but this looks suspiciously like one.
>>24961514ἴωμεν ἁλιεύσοντες!δός τι ἄρτον οἱτῶν εἴρηκ' αὐτὴ λέλησμαι κακῇ τύχῃχθὲς ἔδεε ἡμῖν ἕξ ὥρας πορεύεσθαιὁ κήρυξ μακρὴν δραμέων πεπορευμένος ἐσέπιπτεν καὶ τοῦ πολέμου τὸ τέλος ἤγγειλενεἰ τῆς μητρὸς ἔκλυον, οὔ κεν ἐπλανῶντ' ἐν τοῖσι σπηλαίοισινπρὶν μεσημβρίην ἐν νῷ ἔχων ἐς τὴν νῆσον ἀπικέσθαι φθάνων τοὺς βουλομένους λιμένα καταστρέφεσθαι πολεμίους ἔσπευσεν μετὰ στρατιωτῶν ἐς τὸν κρυπτὸν κόλπον οὗ τὸ ναυτικὸν ἔμεινεν ἀλλὰ τρόμος μιν ἕλ' ἀνευρῶν τὸ ναυτικὸν ὑπὸ τοῦ προχθὲς χειμῶνος ἐπὶ τὸ πουλὺ διεφθαρμένον ὄν, οὐδενὸς χρόνου ὑπάρχοντος ἵν' ἅλις ἀνορθοῖεν τῶν νεῶν
>>24967471if I actually clicked on the right guy, idk, he seems a bit unhinged, funny though at times, if you are interested in his theories maybe it's better you first learn Greek in a neutral way then once you get some background you go back to him
>>24969121but that being said, I'm listening to the presentation of the alphabet and I can see the appeal, he's engaging, he even introduces the digamma though normally that's not pronounced as it had disappeared in eastern Greek
>>24964381Probably has to do with you learning Latin. If you learned Greek instead, you'd certainly have a completely different view. I've always been stunned at how much more modern the Greek mind was than the medieval. What fucked everything up until the Renaissance was the orientalization of the western mind. That said, I don't think it was all bad.
Opinions on old norse? In an ideal world I would teach my kids latin, old norse and mandarin (plus greek if they are interested), the logic being that would be the root of latin and germanic languages plus mandarin
are there any apps you guys use to build / drill vocabulary or is that not a good approach to take in the first place
>>24969193old norse isn't the root of germanic languages.
>>24969197Anki is basically the to-go app but it shouldn't be something you rely on exclusively, indeed; I used it as compendium for the textbook, basically daily review of the words I was learning and using alongside the textbookit's not so good, imho, as something you do to learn words in isolation
>>24967912Ic locode hit upp and þe dinguatico is naƿiht particularlice classicale
>>24969200Ƿe do naƿiht reallice habba ænig superviving textas in Πρωτο-Germanico (ƿel, an handfull of ᚱᚢᚾ ceorfingas in sum þing prættig clauso to hit), sƿa eald Nornst oþþe Γοτθικo is þe clausost eoƿ ear gaing to geta.
>>24969200I don't think there's enough resources to learn proto-germanic. Old Norse would also make it easier to learn any modern scandi language
>>24969197Learning any language is about vocabulary first.
>>24969185Before I started ancient languages at all I was a history major anyways and I spent much more time with classical sources than medieval ones having the same “waow the romans/greeks are so le modern” and over time my view has shifted that the medievals are on a surface level more alien but on a deeper level are us, while we have adopted many trappings of the greeks and romans and imported some of their thinking piecemeal, but it fundamentally is a different, yet ancestral civilization.
>>24969396I can't make out> dinguaticobut I guess it seems like vernacular to you? The Wikipedia article is pretty shitty, and it's not clear to me whether the original material was ever published, or we only got a translated version.I'm getting Ossian vibes desu
>>24969539ˈlæŋɡwəd͡ʒ.Ic do naƿiht þence hit is inαυθεντικo, but eoƿ habba to rememora þæt þe spracen dinguatico of þe 唐 δυναστεία ƿæs clausra to moderno 秦ense þonne eald 秦ense, and þis is suppausod to beo sum þing þæt ƿæs passod dune þurh orale traditione.Ænig ƿeg gif eoƿ justo googol 黑暗傳 全文 hit is naƿiht heard to finde þe textu.
>>24969548>Ænig ƿeg gif eoƿ justo googol 黑暗傳 全文 hit is naƿiht heard to finde þe textu.Cool, thanks. Not that my Chinese is anywhere near the level required.
>>24964381What medieval stories are you reading? I've always found the ancients and medievals to be equally alien.
>>24969864Maybe it’s just because I’m Catholic.Bunch of stuff if you count stuff I read in English before starting Latin ranging from biographies to histories to firsthand accounts to poetry to land charters to contracts to constitutional documents, etc.
>>24969873There are moments when ancient or medieval authors do feel relatable, and that is what keeps me going. I recently read Augustine's confessions and the bits about his academic career and friendships and such felt like that.But in both ancient and medieval authors, I'm constantly hit with stuff that reminds me 'oh right, these people believed in fucking magic.' Like the entire back half of Augustine's confessions.
>>24969121Fair enough. Although he does recommend the Greek Intensive course by Hardy Hansen which i have a copy of.So that work and athenaze ill be studying.
Random questionAre Dante's Inferno and Divine Comedy the same book? Is Purgatory a separate work?
>>24969897Belief in magic isn’t really the alien part for me at all, especially since it’s common to both classical and medieval times. Lots of Americans believe in ghosts n’ stuff. It’s more about deeper stuff like how they view time or culture or what a nation is or history itself.I finally got around to reading Spengler recently and how he describes the medieval-classical difference is pretty close to how I’ve generally felt about it, I.E. that classical civilization is a separate thing, with the age of the poets and philosophers being a fairly late stage of that civilization, while medieval culture is just the youthful stage of our own civilization. Insofar as we draw analogues to classical civilization, it has less to do with being classical ourselves and has more to do with us also being in the latter chunk of our own civilization’s lifespan.
>>24969926Inferno, Purgatory and Paradise are the three books composing the Divine Comedy
>>24969933Wait really?Well that saves some money
>>24970000checkedyup, I have myself an edition with three pocket booklets
>>24970000The Divine Comedy was like the Costco of literature back in its day.
μακάριον γενέθλιον ὦ /κλγ/ίται! διηγεῖσθ' ἅ 'ποιῆσατ' ἢ ' φάγετε σήμερον· ἐγὼ δὴ τηθίδ' ὁμίλησα ξὺν τοῖς τοκεῦσιν καὶ πόλλ' ἔφαγον ἥδιστα ὧν ἦν τράγος ἐξωπτημένος, βοῦς ἡψημένος κἀπιχώριόν τι ὄψον ἐκ βοείου ζωμοῦ τ' ἄρτου τε καὶ τυροῦ οὖ τοὔνομ' οὔκ ἐστιν εἰπεῖν Ἀττικιστί· ὦν πλὴν καρποὶ καὶ τραγημάτιαδεήσει μετὰ τοσούτων δείπνων τὸ θρυλούμενον νηστεύειν τι!
one thing I heard a few times is that it's rather the Greeks who were kinda alien, it's from the Romans onwards that we start to be able to see ourselves more
Is Wheelock's Latin recommended? I remember using Cambridge in school. Unsure if I'd like the lingua latina method. I like textbooks
>>24969193>Opinions on old norse?þat er gott mál>>24969446in theory you could 'learn' it, but it's a reconstructed language, and you'd probably taint your output with too much modern idiom etcit'd be a philological exercise rather than true language learning and your only use of it would be to make educated guesses on what an attested word in a descending language would have looked like in PGmc
learning Norse AND Gothic is probably the closest thing to being able to appreciate proto-Germanic without making it just an autistic exercise in linguistics
>>24972502Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata is a textbook.
>>24973036I wouldn't call it a textbook.
>>24972502Yes, Wheelock's Latin is recommended. Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata is a series of textbooks. You could try using Familia Romana in combination with the Neumann Companion and see whether you like it. That gives it more structure. You could also use a traditional grammar textbook and read Familia Romana on the side as a graded reader if you want to.Familia Romanahttps://archive.org/details/familia-romanaaudiohttps://archive.org/details/familia-romana-and-colloquia-personarum-audio-files>>>/t/1344565exercitia latinahttps://dn721508.ca.archive.org/0/items/lingua-latina-per-se-illustrata_202506/Lingua%20Lat%C4%ABna%20per%20s%C4%93%20ill%C5%ABstr%C4%81ta/Pars%20I/Exercitia%20Lat%C4%ABna%20I.pdfcolloquia personarumhttps://dn721508.ca.archive.org/0/items/lingua-latina-per-se-illustrata_202506/Lingua%20Lat%C4%ABna%20per%20s%C4%93%20ill%C5%ABstr%C4%81ta/Pars%20I/Suppl%C4%93menta/%C3%98rberg%2C%20Colloquia%20pers%C5%8Dn%C4%81rum.pdfneumann companionhttps://leftychan.net/edu/src/1608528074592-0.pdfanswer keyhttps://dn721508.ca.archive.org/0/items/lingua-latina-per-se-illustrata_202506/Lingua%20Lat%C4%ABna%20per%20s%C4%93%20ill%C5%ABstr%C4%81ta/Teacher%27s%20Materials.pdf01https://files.catbox.moe/zj3yws.mp402https://files.catbox.moe/3t7sc3.mp403https://files.catbox.moe/1cjlwe.mp404https://files.catbox.moe/5ljwg8.mp405https://files.catbox.moe/etzxkw.mp406https://files.catbox.moe/0kh9gs.mp407https://files.catbox.moe/1hntqg.mp408https://files.catbox.moe/559z4u.mp409https://files.catbox.moe/heuw4i.mp410https://files.catbox.moe/n9gpgw.mp411https://files.catbox.moe/zvf2dc.mp412https://files.catbox.moe/a0art4.mp413https://files.catbox.moe/n580tf.mp414https://files.catbox.moe/h2eikt.mp415https://files.catbox.moe/rqbjv6.mp416https://files.catbox.moe/wi5xus.mp417https://files.catbox.moe/ht9noe.mp418https://files.catbox.moe/9ospv5.mp419https://files.catbox.moe/9o2h9f.mp420https://files.catbox.moe/r1bafj.mp421https://files.catbox.moe/x6y9sd.mp422https://files.catbox.moe/65vrqi.mp423https://files.catbox.moe/2tybr2.mp424https://files.catbox.moe/5nlup0.mp425https://files.catbox.moe/kwehqn.mp426https://files.catbox.moe/7rim8t.mp427https://files.catbox.moe/464bxv.mp428https://files.catbox.moe/f2k98o.mp429https://files.catbox.moe/kfoafs.mp430https://files.catbox.moe/xmf1qc.mp431https://files.catbox.moe/2svzr7.mp4>>24972044There's also these:https://archive.org/details/LatinAnIntensiveCourse/https://archive.org/details/latinfortodayfir0000grayhttps://archive.org/details/jenneys-first-year-latin-1984https://archive.org/details/firstlatinlesson0000harrhttps://archive.org/details/essentiallatin00thom
>>24972502was ok when I used it, but again it's not either or, get wheelock and LLPSI if you want to get reading asap
>>24973059>explicit grammar explanations>exercises
>>24969897>He doesn't know about magic
>>24969932>Lots of Americans believe in ghosts n’ stuff.They're lares and they're real
>>24972502There's also this:https://libgen.li/ads.php?md5=ef9f8b6c0cf88c53cfb121927b379fd8
>>24972502Some more books:https://archive.org/details/paulo-roacutenai-curso-basico-de-latim-gradus-primus (Portuguese, use google translate)https://libgen.li/edition.php?id=136898262 (German, use google translate)https://archive.org/details/Latin_method_Most_1stYearEcce RomaniOxford Latin CourseAlso look in the links in the OP.
Are Hyplern books worth buying? Haven't found any free downloads for Latin.
>>24966875Hey, just so you know- check 49 and 50. They’re both the same guy.
started learning some Attic Greek today with the textbooks provided in the OP. holy fuck how fucking obtuse is this shit
>>24975458you have yet to see the autistic depths graeculorum
देवाḥ तेषां द्वेष्टि ये स्वकर्तव्याद् पलायन्ते।
>>24975458I’m convinced textbook writers are more concerned with impressing other professors than they are with actually educating students so they unconsciously write their textbooks poorly on purpose.For example, Fr. Most’s Latin by the Natural Method is an extremely straightforward and easy to use textbook, and all anyone can say online about it that already has a classics degree is that the Latin in the early chapters are clunky, totally ignoring they’re deliberately clunky to be easier to learn, and geared towards learning Late Latin because it’s easier to learn.
Anyone have a pdf of the Wheelock workbook?
>>24975581What does that have to do with professors wanting to impress each other? Just seems like a difference in teaching philosophy.>>24975599annas-archive dot org
>>24975458>provided in the OPThere are many. Which ones?
>>24975818I checked out a dozen of them, but only really managed to actually proceed with Reading Greek.
There are other books too that aren't there.https://www.open.edu/openlearn/mod/oucontent/view.php?id=113457https://libgen.li/edition.php?id=146575969https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4FyHj2CA30dFvtLPcFheTRSxNF9sEJqWhttps://open.umn.edu/opentextbooks/textbooks/1104https://biblehub.com/interlinear/https://archive.org/details/anabasisofxenoph00xenoiala
>>24975878Meant for >>24975851
For Greekhttps://students.open.ac.uk/arts/openlearn/ancient_greek/
>>24975878>>24975879thanks bro, the interlinear greek bible is really nice.
>>24975654You are being obtuse and I refuse to clarify or elaborate.
>>24975436thx, fixed it for next thread
>>24976065So you can’t defend your sad conjecture and you’re giving up. Understood.
>>24976231No I just think what I said is obvious and I’m not going to work to convince the butthurt
>>24957155You have to read a lot of secondary literature too. Same is true of the Bible or any other major religious text. I suggest starting with a textbook or article series or something, otherwise its sort of a performative exercise. You are reading for esotericism rather than actual cultural knowledge and understanding.
>>24976065>>24976306That anon's right, you didn't make any case, you just asserted your opinion and said, "but this other book I read was clear to me," which does nothing to establish the professoriate trying to impress each other. You present it as a "for example" and make a total non-sequitor leap. Maybe actually finish your logic books and start working through some rhetoric books.
>>24974339The answer to your question is a subjective one, but you should be able to find free interlinear Latin texts online if that's what you're asking.https://www.latinum.org.uk/shadowing/interlinear-methodhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnEKnezLXJgIt's possible the book you posted is just a reprint of one of these free public domain texts, but I also think having a text printed in paperback can be worth the money.
>>24977142Okay. I’m gonna let you in on a little secret about how people who leave their bedroom communicate, using this as an example.I wasn’t making an argument, but a subjective statement of opinion, that I still hold but don’t feel like elaborating on. It was to A. Express the opinion to get it off my chest and B. See if anyone felt the same, but it was not to convince anyone that disagreed. I have neither elaborated on it nor tried to defend it, but have merely asserted my God-given right to not continue to argue about it. Not everything is a formal argument that must comply with formal rules of logic you autist.I said what I meant. IYKYK.
>>24977247>not everything I claim has to be sustainableYes it does you retard we're not on reddit and this isn't your diary, if you can't defend a claim then don't make it
>>24977247Lol you literally got pissy at >>24976065when the other anon shrugged and said "seems more like it's different teaching philosophies." Maybe your subjective fuzzy feelz aren't well thought out and so not worth sharing?
>>24977219Yeah I'm aware of interlinears. I'm asking about Hyplern. Most of their texts I have not found at all as free books. They also have interlinears for other languages, some of which there are no interlinears for from anyone else. But it's one guy making them so he can't be translating himself, but must be using google translate or something. I think $6 is too much for one ebook.
>>24977254I do what I want>>24977255You’re being obtuse. It’s silly.
>>24977362Any money is too much for one ebook imho. Especially in Latin/Greek.
>>24977362This can be done manually with Eulexis and Collatinus
>>24956717Has anyone else here ever started learning a new language and felt a very strange and subtle almost "psychedelic" feeling as the wires of their brain began crossing in new ways? Reminds me very much of this anecdote from a book about improv I came across. I haven't tested it myself, but I have a hunch that the more you lean into "drifting at sea" with the new language through immediate immersion, the stronger this feeling will be. Maybe someone here who's done LLPSI or studied abroad knows what I mean.
>>24977578Yes absolutely.
>>24977362There were a few Aesops on the page I linked, if that's what you're interested in.
Anyone have alternative to exercitia-latina.surge.sh
>>24977713there are some interactive Latin links in the FAQ, not sure if they are similar to it since it only says it was a "fill in the blanks" type of exercises
>>24977713https://annas-archive.org/md5/48a0fdb3624202ac0eb5551228b9e699
>>24977713>>24978461Pdf instead of djvuhttps://annas-archive.org/md5/1089fe5d30ee72156cc7ea474b169f27If answers aren't in there checkhttps://annas-archive.org/md5/d32e1c12a573f6a75d86eb2a3e18042ehttps://annas-archive.org/md5/a14b346b0646f96313e6d8b028b3dcc6
I always latincactus2000 for Latin declensions and conjugations, but is there a similar resource to ancient Greek?
What are the best books to learn about Proto-Indo-European?
>>24978592logeion and wiktionary; the first one will let you search declined/conjugated forms and contains also dialectal variations but the downside(not really) is that it shows only attested forms, whereas wiktionary usually has all the declined forms even if not attested, so if you are e.g composing it can be useful to quickly check if a form is right
>>24963867es rectus. vaticana considit in monte auri, sed illi eum non fodiunt.
>>24959810annoda one
>>24980084>GISLENUS BULTELIUS>AD NOCTEMbretty good elegiacs from a fellow noctis amator, I'd actually recommend this little short poem to someone who wants some easy dactylic hexameters and pentameters to practice the meterthere seems to be some little errors though, I'm guessing in the transcription from the original text>Illa suas lacebras facilis praebebit amantishould be latebrasalso in this line>Hoc si scire queam, certura est discedere vita,should be certum, which also doesn't break the meter
>>24977247>I wasn’t making an argumentYes, you were. The part after "for example" is the premise, the part before "for example" is the conclusion.>It was to A. Express the opinion to get it off my chest and B. See if anyone felt the sameAnd what's the point of that? What's your purpose with posting and reading posts on forums?>but it was not to convince anyone that disagreedAn argument is not necessarily about convincing someone who disagrees. I told you earlier about the difference between a proposition and an argument. Why post a mere proposition? Why should anyone care about a mere proposition from an anonymous poster online? You are not the pope, where just being who you are is enough to care about what you say, you need to provide anything at all to back up propositions you make. That's how we learn, and we are here to learn. Many people on 4chan just post proposition after proposition, never backing up any proposition, and becoming very mad instantly when any proposition is questioned or when asked to back it up. This is not how you learn, it's a complete waste of time.readhttps://www.juristpanel.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/A-Rulebook-for-Arguments_compressed.pdf
>>24980052vere ita est.
>>24980420Incredible bait
>>24980553Work on developing your faculties of reasoning, that's what studying logic is, because right now you're a creature of nothing but emotion. It's not your fault, that's what 13,000 hours of public school does.
>read same author daily for 2 months>comprehension is smooth, feeling confident>start new author>feel like I’m drunk reading an entirely different languageis this how it is forever
>>24980683Just keep going and it’ll go away when you finish the classical corpus and then restart again with the Middle Ages.
>one error marked wrong on exam>only mistake so far this semester>look inside>parsing and adj agreement marked incorrect>translation along with parsed sentence somehow marked correct (essentially the same grammatical structure in english)>chronically tardy professor somehow completely mangled elementary greek articular infinitive (a topic never explained in class b/c no grammar was ever explained in class)>professor also thought attic greek had the ablative for a bit>mfw I took on college debt for this
>study economics>learn about opportunity costs>realize I wasted my time with dead languages>should've learned French + Spanish + Chinese + German (in that order) insteadhow do I cope with having wasted my energy
>>24981048>>professor also thought attic greek had the ablative for a bitWtf
how do you learn and memorize words for latin and greek, what methods do you and how many words do you learn a day/week on average
>>24980683Yeah this is what learning any language is like and no, after 4-5 years it gets better
>>24981173Try Anki app. Flashcards and you can add audio, video, picture, a sentence or a few sentences for context, etc.Not sure if there's a built in text to speech function, orherwise google "text to speech" and use any website that produces mp3 files. There are also websites which can cut out audio or video clips from youtube etc. I've been using Anki and Language Reactor browser extension together.
>>24981074You should be coping about not having understood opportunity cost until you read it in a book
>>24981952i forgot about it after high school decades ago.
>>24980683>opportunity costsThat's exactly the reason I'm sticking with Cicero for now; I can feel confident at least until I finish the most prolific Latin author. Deep study could easily last several years. Then maybe Livy for a while.
>>24980683>>24982613For similar reasons, although it has low transferability to a lot of classical authors, I decided to focus on the vulgate. It alone accounts for like half my time reading in the past month. Luckily the post-vulgate corpus is so influenced by it that it works remarkably well for that, and I’m a medievalist. However, I just got a Nepos Loeb and I feel like I’m having a fucking stroke looking at it.What I am hoping will mitigate it is just anki of a really wide variety of sample sentences. I have a premade deck for all the examples in the bradley’s arnold book, so I just add the explicit grammar rule to the english side of the cards; when I make cards for vocab I search the corpus for a couple classical sentences to include. So my hope is that a while from now I’ll have done thousands of bradley’s arnold and authentic classical sentences and maybe it will make the eventual serious branching out less painful.
>>24983087Name this text
>>24982680Using a deck from a composition book is actually a pretty clever idea, I like that. However, I would say that likely no Anki deck could replace reading and rereading actual Latin in context. I've noticed that there're things Anki's really good at (simple things like principle parts and vocabulary), and things it isn't (anything more complicated than that). Cards tended to lost their "substance" after a while, if you know what I mean. But if you try it, and it ends up working out for you, please let us know.
Does a chart like this exist for Greek? I think I want to be more consistent with language learning for 2026 and I think the LLPSI-Wheelock combo would be best for Latin, so I want to follow something similar for Greek. If there is no chart what would you recommend for the reader+textbook? Athenaze and what would be the Wheelock for Greek?
>>24983951This video has mostly sound advice. Basically go through a traditional textbook and after that use (the Italian) Athenaze as a graded reader. After that you should be able to tackle authentic texts. There are also tons of free easy readers on the internet archive if you want more CI.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AelM2zyv5Us
>>24983951https://libgen.li/edition.php?id=146575969https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4FyHj2CA30dFvtLPcFheTRSxNF9sEJqWhttps://biblehub.com/interlinear/https://archive.org/details/anabasisofxenoph00xenoiala
>>24983951for Latin see this post >>24973067>familia romana + neumann companion + audio + exercitia latina + colloquia personarumthen you have more than just a reader in lingua latina per se illustrataalso see>>24973842
>>24983785Personally I only found it useful for memorizing vocab if it is strictly vocab I have just covered in a textbook and I’m not taking it seriously.The real purpose of the cards is massive amounts of i+1 sentences. I read a paper by a classicist arguing it was basically impossible to internalize the 6,670 vocab needed for 98% comprehension, and his argument hinged on how in mass reading some words are simply to rare in most authors even if they appear in others (think words for natural things used a bunch in pliny but rare elsewhere). I think he was unaware of how a lot of younger modern language learners can use SRS to essentially provide “artificial” volume to internalize far broader amounts of vocabulary.But yeah, without sample sentences I find anki cards almost useless outside of niche applications. Otherwise it’s just a way to force myself to read constructions/mid-frequency vocab that I struggle with an extra 6-12 times to force assimilation.
>>24983785>>24984266You can add context/sample sentences in the anki cards.
>>24984425>>24984266If you aren’t testing comprehension of the sample sentence then why even put it in anki except as extra input? And if you are testing on comprehension of the sample sentence then why not just read instead? I guess it makes sense if it’s a particularly nasty sentence or a word you keep forgetting, but otherwise reading seems the better use of time.
>>24984460Because it lets me have a consistent 5-10 minute morning routine where I get to retread stuff I can be absolutely sure is high value. I’m completely self taught so my grasp on explicit grammar is spotty at best, and I have taught myself mostly through a massive amount of reading. So I have this “discomfort” when it comes to reading at a basic level that targeted practice does a lot to alleviate. And again, you might have a word not appear again for a thousand pages but still be high frequency to be necessary. Picrel is a typical super basic card, but some of my cards will just have a translation for the target vocabulary, but no translation of the sample sentences and will have a sample sentence from Cicero, Caesar, and whatever the source is (or other authors as is reasonable) so I basically read and reread a paragraph’s worth of several styles targeting a particular word. They take me a long time to review individually but the individual cards feel really effective so far.I got the idea from the old AJATT blog.
>>24984460You read a text, and when you encounter a word you don't know you look it up, then you make a card with the sentence in the target language and the specific word bolded. On the other side of the card are the sentence and word in English. Or don't, your choice.
>>24984497Wish the Hodge twins would go back to fitness stuff. They were a lot more creative then. But yeah pretty much. Even the logic with the bradley’s arnold sentences is just that it lets me retread a bunch of grammar rules in more detail, and usually I don’t know a word in one of the examples anyways so I bold that like a normal sentence card. It’s how people grind languages for reading especially online nowadays and the practice just hasn’t really made it into Latin much yet. I think a major gap is the lack of a basic *sentence* deck. There’s decks for every word in familia romana, but it will always be a kind of sub-par supplement because it lacks sample sentences. If it had that it would be an autodidact’s silver bullet to getting through the book at a decent clip (plus a lot of rereading).I’m currently chipping away at a sample sentence deck for Latin by the Natural Method, and I have a friend getting into Latin that can do the earlier chapters as they go along while I do volume 2. Maybe when that’s done I’ll upload it on ankiweb or something. It certainly won’t teach you to read on its own. I think it’s main value is in helping mitigate that gap between what a student in a classroom would get (answered questions, guided review) and makes it streamlined, effective, and something you can do alone. But for Latin by the Natural Method I still dogmatically preach Fr. Most’s recommendation of rereading every lesson 6 times, and rereading any sentence you get stuck on 6 times once you have deciphered it.
>>24983112Spippy...Oh wait, you wanted me to identify it?
Forgive the phoneposting but here’s an example of the sentence cards I’m mining. Mined sentence on top, supporting sample sentences from the classical corpus below.Mind you I mostly just read to practice Latin, just every once in a while I’ll go to the words I had to look up and will make 5-10 of these cards.The back side of the card is just the definition way at the bottom.
>>24984519>There’s decks for every word in familia romana, but it will always be a kind of sub-par supplement because it lacks sample sentences. If it had that it would be an autodidact’s silver bullet to getting through the book at a decent clip (plus a lot of rereading).Maybe you could make a deck where each card just says something like "20.21-27," meaning "go re-read the paragraph from lines 21 to 27 of chapter 20." You could edit the card if there's a specific part of the paragraph that you struggle with, so it would then look like "20.21-27 novus infans in cunis erit."I didn't do this when I went through Familia Romana, bu I've thought about trying it for the next classical language I study.
>>24984860It would be a lot to manage as opposed to just entering the sentences directly, defeating the purpose of SRS software to be relatively smooth and fast paced. It’s really meant to be a supplement for rapidly reinforcing memory, to boost the effectiveness of reading and rereading, not a way to replace it entirely.A deck of sample sentences by order of first appearance of vocab with chapter-line citations would be kind of awesome though since FR numbers each line.
>>24984860>>24984897To clarify, as an autodidact at that stage I would have 100% rather blitzed a few cards before just rereading the whole chapter, or several chapters, than something less extensive like that.
>>24984897>>24984899>It would be a lot to manage as opposed to just entering the sentences directlyHow? I was offering an simple alternative to making sentence cards for every word of whatever reader you're using.
>>24980683first time I felt that I remember it clearly it was Caesar -> Sallust
>>24983087>Urbs antiqua fuitThe Aeneid? After that it sounds like some kind of British children's novel, but I don't think it's Harrius Potter. The "Fragment I" and "Fragment II" makes it sound like an ancient manuscript, but maybe it's from a work where someone started a translation but never finished it.>>24983951For the elementary readers, seehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vwb1wVzPec>>24980683>tfw you cheat at Latin by familiarizing yourself with every Latin text until you assimilate the vocabulary and style of all the major authors
>>24984897Page 33 is a list of all words in Familia Romana and Roma Aeterna. Bold number/regular number are chapter/line of first appearance of the word.https://archive.org/details/lingualatinalatinbooks/Lingua%20Latina%20-%20Indices
>>24985147it was Sallust for me as well. though I’m about a third through Catilinae Coniuratio now and his style growing on me
Pretty cool ebook function would be to highlight a word which is appearing for the first time, hovering over any word gives you the number of times it has been mentioned etc.
>>24985319Use Lute
>>24981048And how do you know that Greek doesn't have an ablative? Put it this way: how would you know that Latin has an ablative other than that a declension table told you so? Maybe your professor is right and apparent datives or genitives really are a Greek ablative.
>>24984958Actually what you said could be a good idea upon further reflection if you just screenshotted the relevant text and put it directly on the card, I was imagining having to tab out or open an actual book.Beyond that, my approach is already like 80% reading/rereading and 20% anki, and your proposal is less targeted vocab and more “anki-managed rereading.”
>>24985430>>24985319I remember being the first anon to shill lute on here and /lang/. It’s a shame I got really sick of it a month later anyways and haven’t used it since.Great program though, and the month I did use it was very productive.>>24985205Thanks, if I get around to it this will be very helpful.
>>24985480to have an ablative case means to have a case that primarily functions as the name says, ab-latively, that is, indicative movement-fromyou can say Greek doesn't have it because movement-from uses the case that is primarily employed as complement of attribution/specification, unlike Latin or other indo-european languagesand that's without even using the PIE theory to reconstruct nominal morphology
>>24986077Fuck off back to /int/, coombrain.
>>24986321He's not being coombrained here that I can see, he's engaging in language-related discussion, you shouldn't harass him as long as he behaves himself.
To the anons who would say they've attained a great proficiency in reading Latin, who would you say is the greatest Medieval or Renaissance prose writer? Or for verse too. Someone who rivals or maybe even surpasses Classical authors. Any surprising discoveries?
>>24986538Augustine.
>>24986321>>24986333I actually found out about /lang/ at all through /clg/ and otherwise pretty much never use it. I found out about /clg/ through /his/, so I also don’t use /lit/ really at all.
>>24986073Also, to add further context for the way I’m dealing with mid-frequency vocab, I don’t add stuff that’s morphologically transparent like “calefaciens” since making those multi sentence cards would be a huge waste of time. Basically, I just pencil under words that meaningfully block comprehension, check logeion later, and if it is ranked (appears 50+ times in the corpus) then I make a sentence card of it. But I also ignore a large chunk of the words I underline anyways since if I’m reading something like Beeson’s Medieval Latin Primer I might encounter 15 such words in a reading session, but will only make cards for 5-10. I also never make cards when using a Loeb or other parallel translation.So it’s mostly just extensive reading.
>>24986762I don't give a shit. Everybody in /lang/ is a coombrain.
>>24986914sed.. sed... mulieres.... eae pulchrae sunt....
>>24986914To know this you would have to have opened the thread at some point. Checkmate, coombrain.
>>24978868thank you, anon. Wiktionary worked
wife left me but at least i can read latin
>>24989047>tfw wizard but at least I dab on 'em sex havers Hellenistically
>>24966875gimme gimme
Here's a Saturday morning writing challenge for you fellas:Easy:1. The she-wolf fed the children.2. The brothers were placed in a trough by a slave.3. Faustulus the shepherd found the boys on the bank of the river.Medium:1. Remus jumps over Romulus's short wall, which enrages him enough to murder his own brother.2. The she-wolf and the woodpecker which suckled and fed the poor infants are both sacred animals to Mars.3. King Romulus invited the Sabine people to a festival and subsequently used the opportunity to abduct the Sabine women.Hard:1. King Romulus's mysterious disappearance in a storm was seen as an ascension into the heavens by the people, and he was later revered as if he were a deity.2. The youth Scaevola sneaked into the enemy camp to assassinate Porsenna, but upon being captured, he burned his right hand in a fire to prove the fortitude of the Roman people. 3. Hannibal wished to carry off a golden column from Juno's temple at Lacinium, but since he was in doubt whether it was solid or plated, he bored into it.
>>24991235Easy:1. Lupa puerulos aluit.2. Fratres a servo in alveo collocati sunt.3. Faustulus pastor ad ripam fluminis puerulos invenit.Medium:1. Cum Remus muros humiles Romuli transiluisset, tanta fit Romuli indignatio ut suum proprium fratrem necet.2. Lupa picusque, quarum altera infantibus miseris mammam dedit altera eos aluit, sacrae Martio sunt.3. Romulus rex multitudinem Sabinorum ad spectaculum invitavit, et propterea facultate virginum Sabinarum rapiendi usus est.Hard:1. Discessus Romuli regis perplexus in procellis ascensui in caelum populo videbat, et idcirco tamquam si deus esset colebatur.2. Iuvenis Scaevola, cum in castra hostium correpsisset ut Porsennam interficeret, captus dexteram igni combussit ut virtutem populi Romani ostenderet.3. Hannibal cum columnam aurea a templo Iunonis Lacinio auferre vellet dubitaretque utrum solida an extrinsecus inaurata esset, eam perterebravit.
>>24991175was a nice refresh since I had already read a bit of Thrax's grammar, still, it's not easy to interpret certain words in a specifically grammatical sense as we understand it today, like ὑπόκρισις I kinda understand due to ὑποκρίτης hence 'expression'but still, so much makes sense overall with current practices, though I'm still puzzled by his scheme putting voiced consonants as something between their unvoiced aspirated and unaspirated versionsomething that caught my eye this time is how he begins by calling grammatike an empeiria, which reminded me of the whole discourse of Socrates in Gorgias distinguishing between technai and empeiriai despite the work being called techne grammatike
so what the hell is an AEGIS??? the shield or the cape?
>>249912351. ἡ λύκαινα τὼ βρέφει ἔθρεψεν2. τὼ ἀδελφὼ ὑπὸ δοῦλου 'τέθητον ἐν σκάφῃ3. Φαύστολος ὁ ποιμὴν τὼ βρέφει παρ' ὄχθαις εὗρεν ποταμοῦ1. τοῦ Ῥήμου ὑπερβήσαντος τὸ βραχὺ τεῖχος τοῦ Ῥωμύλου οὕτως ἀπήχθετο αὐτῷ ὥστε τὸν κασίγνητον ἀπέκτεινεν2. ἡ λύκαινα καὶ ὁ δρυοκολάπτης ἡ μὲν τιτθεύσασ' ὁ δὲ θρέψας τὼ βρέφει τοῦ Ἄρεως ἱεροί3. Ῥωμύλος ὁ βασιλεὺς τῶν Σαβίνων εἰς ἐορτὴν παρακληθέντων τὰς γυναῖκας ἥρπασεν δόλῳ1. τὴν τοῦ Ῥωμύλου τοῦ βασιλέως ἀσαφῆ 'φάνειαν παρὰ θύελλαν ἡγοῦντ' οἱ πολλοὶ ἀνάβασιν εἶναι εἰς θεῶν τὸ ἕδος καὶ ὕστερον ὡς θεὸν αὐτὸν ἐσέβοντο2. ὁ Σκαιβόλας μειράκιον ὤν κρύφ' ὑπέδυ τὰς πολεμικὰς σκηνὰς ὡς τὸν Πορσίνην σφάξας ἀλλ' ὑπὸ τῶν πολεμίων ἑαλωκὼς τὴν δεξιὰν χεῖρ' ἔπρησεν πυρ' ἵνα τὴν ἀρητὴν τῶν Ῥωμαίων ἀποδείξαι3. ὁ Ἀννίβας βουλόμενος συλᾶν κίονά τινα χρυσεῖον τοῦ ἱεροῦ τῆς Ἥρας ἐν Λακινίῳ ἀλλ' οὐ σαφῶς εἰδὼς πότερον στερεὸν ἢ 'μφίχρυσον εἴη τέτρηνεν αὐτόν
>Have a Latin exam coming up in a few weeks>Know nothing about LatinBros I'm so fucking fucked I can't sleep
>>24991758both, depends on the context, it's literally a noun object derived from "goat-" and with hide/skin being implied since there's other -is nouns with the same meaning, so it's most generally "the goat-skin thing" which can be literally just that, a goat-skin, or the more famous goat-skin shield of Zeus
>>24991898>when you learn that AIS/ AIX means both “goat” and “storm”>>Zeus is also the god of both
>>24991857CVR NON DIDICISTI???
>>24991857Spend every waking hour reading Familia Romana. No, genuinely.
>>24991898>>24991902ong Zeus is GOATED tho fr unc still got it
>>24991933
>>24991912Yeah, it covers the core you probably need at your level and with so little prep time rereading the same chapters over and over is superior to mixing textbooks.
>>24991912>>24992630Maybe not literally every waking hour, because past a certain point you're just jamming it in one ear and out the other because your brain is so tired, but as much as you can stand.
I have time to learn another classical language on top of Latin. I'm torn between Homeric Greek and Old English. Reasons for learning Homeric Greek are obvious, I just want to read Homer (and maybe move on to Attic some day if I can find the time). As for Old English, Beowulf is great, but I'm also interested in understanding the Germanic layer of English to enrich my reading. It's almost up to a coin toss for me. Thoughts? Has anyone done both?
>>24993166When in doubt, Old English would probably be a lot easier.
>>24993166Neither is a classical language
>>24993166If you’re talking about time investment, OE is dramatically easier for reading comprehension.
Oh my god, I hate Latin so much. I can't believe it. I'm so disappointed, man. I thought I'd love learning this, but I can't stand it at all. I'm 5 months in, and I just hate everything about it. This is the biggest letdown of my entire life.
>>24993811Why? Let us talk you off the ledge.
>>24993839I don't know, bro. I just don't like it. Every time I think there's a rule that applies to everything, it turns out there's a case that invalidates whatever pattern you might have seen. I hate the weird word order in words like enim, which can seemingly just turn up anywhere they like. I really loathe the small words like eos, which mean one thing, and then mean something completely different later. Every word of like three letters or less just seems like they were making noises at random, and there's no consistency and it's just not at all as nice as I thought it would sound. Now that I kind of get it, it's like the mystery is gone, and I'm just surrounded by a bunch of guys talking about their dicks or whatever. I'm so fucking depressed by this. I don't even think I want to learn the poetry anymore, even if I could
Eros oudama pilnatai.
Pic related hurt me so badly when I read it. This poem expresses how I feel about the world, why I am so depressed, etc The woman being reprimanded by Sappho here is so irrelevant she isn’t even mentioned by name…
>>24993849>Every time I think there's a rule that applies to everything, it turns out there's a case that invalidates whatever pattern you might have seen.T. 19th century grammarian studying Latin from cradle to grave and not being able to read the Bible smoothly because he’s an overly-analyzing arrogant retard.Have you tried being chill, dude?
>>24993166I think you should probably be aware that Homeric Greek is not sufficiently different from Attic to really be considered separate language. It's certainly a different dialect, but it's like saying that you wanted to learn "Plautine" Latin and move on to Vergil if you had time. It took me some time to get used to Homer when I first started to read him, but it wasn't that far of a leap from my knowledge of Attic.
>>24993985Hey buddy, a lot of careers have been built off of grossly exaggerated stylistic differences.
>>24993849You should be ashamed of posting such whiny garbage. Sorry human expression isn’t perfectly consistent like ur computer programz.
>>24993849sounds like a bad approach tbqh senpai, also maybe you are not reading material you enjoy(guys talking about their dicks? is that Martial/Catullus or something?)
>>24993915the indo-european view of the underworld in general seems pretty grim, maybe that's partly why κλέος ἄφθιτον was perceived as a way to "survive" in some sense
>>24994134He fell for the “Latin is perfect and precise” meme viewpoint that originated with a specific faction of affected pricks in 16th century Italy.
>>24994149It's not just death itself but dying without leaving any sort of lasting artistic impression on the world after you are gone.>Ou gar pedekes brodon ton ek PieriasPierias was home of the Muses ie Sappho is insulting her for dying without being as artistically respected as she herself is. The recipient of the poem is left nameless to hammer in how she wont be remembered by anyone
>>24993260>>24993340Thanks. Do you know OE? Have you read Osweald Bera? Do you like it as a beginner's resource?>>24993985Ah, I see. I only added it parenthetically because I've never read any of the Attic Greek corpus even in translation, I really only want to read Homer. But that's good to know, it's another pro for weighing whether I want to learn Greek or OE
>>24994075Such as the careers of every Koine teacher. I see no reason for Koine to be taught on its own, since you could easily just learn Attic, then learn the more simplistic biblical usages.
>>24994636I would, humbly, disagree in part but agree in part.I think it would be reasonable to go “koine-first” specifically as an option to do input-heavy Greek learning. I did Late/Patristic Latin first and it was easily much lower friction than trying to go LLPSI->Caesar. But all that is, is that a reading-heavy approach would demand reading “at-level” and Koine is just a lower reading level. Something like a gospels->patristics->hellenistic-era atticizing authors->attic->homericI have looked up this before so I would love opinions from the Hellenists on here, but isn’t Koine closer to Attic than Late Latin is to Classical?
>Suetonius, qui procul aberat cum Druidis pugnans, Londinium quam celerrime festinavit. I get that he's heading towards London, but I'm not sure how it makes sense. Don't I need something to indicate that? As it is, it looks like London is the one on the move, which obviously makes no sense.
>>24995614>Don't I need something to indicate that?Accusative
>>24995614Londinium would be in the accusative and because it's a big city it doesn't need a preposition like ad, it's that rule about big islands and cities for which you are allowed to use the simple accusative while for everything else you use adRomam venio oppidum venio x
>>24995628there should be a check mark next to venioRomam venio -> OKoppidum venio -> not OK
>>24995624>>24995628Oh Londinium is the accusative god damn it. Rookie error. Ok, thanks, guys. Could I use the locative case to express this going toward as well? I think someone said to me it applies only to cities, right?
>>24995660no, locative as the name says indicates being in a place, no motion, and likewise it's almost vestigial and applied to cities or some fixed expressions e.g ruri domi humi
>>24962473Modern India was taken over by the dark-skinned Dravidians who stole the 1st white religion. See the Persians who were the original Indo-Aryans.
>>24995671Okay understood. Ariga-toe anon
>>24994899I believe that you can just include some biblical (or other koine) readings in a regular attic course, just with some notes if it has uses peculiar to the koine. The textbook I used had a few readings from John.
y'all made new year goals right?with "real" life slowly encroaching on me I'll be happy if I can go back to my more regular routine of reading something every-day for at least half an hour
I'm aware it's not classical but there's no better place to ask: is it worth picking up some kind of primer or resource for Middle English? I've seen mixed answers. I have no issue reading (annotated) ME texts, so it would just be from a place of interest.
>>24995614>>24995624>>24995660What this is a great example of is that language is far more about unconscious understanding than conscious analysis unless you want to filter errors out of your output.Unbelievable how much more capable I feel when I try to imagine the scene being described, maybe with a narrator speaking in Latin, than if I try to constantly translate as I read; but then I feel way less certain that I “know” what sentences say.
Spotting ablative absolutes in the wild is pretty tricky, isn't it?
>>24998058multis adhuc perlectis it's not so bad after a while fella
>>24998058caesar wrote a practice reader for ablative absolute
>>24997165If you can already read annotated ME texts fine, it's probably best to just read a bunch of them and absorb the differences from Modern English by exposure.
Why aren't the Classical Japanese textbooks by Haruo Shirane in the mega? I just noticed there's nothing for Classical Japanese when I recently wanted to improve my Japanese knowledge to read Genji, Heike and the Heian-era poetry. I got the textbooks through Anna's archive, but they only had 2 out of the 3.
>>24998058ablative absolutes being so common, you will eventually get used to spotting them.
>>24998058I know what you mean. For example, what genius decided that ablative should be for separation but that the ablative should be also often identical to the dative, which has uses that are in my mind nearly the opposite? I don't think there's any easy solution. You just have to keep practicing until you get better at anticipating the grammar (and vocabulary). So in your case, you don't get better at ablative absolutes just by drilling ablative absolutes. You also get better at ablative absolutes by getting better at everything else that surrounds the absolutes, so that the ablative absolutes jump out to you for what they are.>>24998520The Gospels abound with ablative absolutes and would be easier reading for most people.
>>24999702>The Gospels abound with ablative absolutes and would be easier reading for most people.that is if you are interested in reading the gospels, which many aren't
>>24999878Ah yes, selectively applying this issue specifically to the most influential Latin texts on the entire following 1600-year corpus and all modern European languages is surely the sign of a developed intellect.
>>24999702The Gospels are an excellent suggestion. Short, formulaic, simple, small vocab, uses a lot of essential words, background cultural knowledge makes them easier to work through.There’s a reason they were the normal “first real text” for students for 1000 years.
>>24999878You're right that many people take up Latin just to read farming treatises, but the Gospels have plenty of agricultural content too. They have a little something for everybody.
>>25000954Hehe le passive aggressive Christcuck Lmao
>>24999878for me it's Harrius Potterius
>>25000982>Jon Kolner
>>25000954>background cultural knowledge makes them easier to work throughBeyond a couple phrases most people hardly have knowledge of the gospels. Christianity has been all but seperated from common culture today. Hence why many who want to learn Latin have an easier time relating with Cato or Caesar than John or Luke
>>25000982>you can only read this easy novella if you’re a Christian
>>24978829The attached chart has books of information about both the language and the culture of the Proto-Indo-Europeans.
suum cuique sodales, pretium est maxime iis legendo operam dare quibus maxime legere volup est sive tiro sis sive non; pendat quivis maximi Christianam scripturam, summo igitur studio annititor ad eorum scripta legenda facilia cum sint; sin vero minimi, ea petat scripta quibus et facilitas insit comparabilis et argumenti nihil taedeat; numne illi Caesar et Nepos saepe palma donati liquide scribendi adeo difficiliores videntur lectu ac Vulgata?
>>24999203Why aren't they in the Latin/Greek mega? Truly a mystery
>>25003068Fair enough, I'll amend it to "the FAQ".
>>25003291FAQ anon here, it's work in progress, we haven't had many if anyone at all ITT knowledgeable about classical Japanese to contribute, if you have some good textbooks to suggest in general I could add them
>>25003326I'm not very knowledgeable about Classical Japanese myself, but Haruo Shirane's textbooks seem to have a good reputation. There are three textbooks, used in tandem:>Classical Japanese: A Grammar>Classical Japanese: A Grammar (Exercise Answers and Tables)>Classical Japanese Reader and Essential Dictionary
>>25003540they do seem like a highly rated textbook and author, added
>>24994899I think it's about the same ballpark of difficulty, like when you take those terms as a whole "Late Latin" and "Koine", there's enough individual variation in the authors to say that although there is a somewhat recognizeable "innovation" so to speak where a good trained eye might say "yup this is Koine" because X, Y and Z, overall I'd say one could even write Attic : Koine ≈ Classical : Late (Latin)
>>25004831In my experience it has way more to do with sentence structure for the Classical : Late differences.But yeah, I could look at English written today vs 80 years ago and pretty confidently say which is which, and I wouldn’t really differentiate the two.
>Man this sentence just makes no sense I just can't figure it ou->Regredi is a deponent verbOHHHHH I SPENT TEN MINUTES ON YOU YOU FUCK AAAAAA
>mfw just realized γυνή and queen are cognate
>cat language generalοἴμοι
