A lot of Jews on here try to besmirch the tradition of virtue ethics by claiming that our Christian ancestors were not virtuous and that virtue has historically not existed.You are semitic Marxist filth stemming from a religion of child molesters and foreskin-snatchers. Jews have no right to speak of virtue when they wholly embody the archetype of the merchant, content to sell off every last bit of tradition for a couple more shekels.
> A lot of Jews on here try to besmirch the tradition of virtue ethics by claiming that our Christian ancestors were not virtuous and that virtue has historically not existed.I never said that retard I simply pointed out that man has always been sinful and historical texts bear abundant witness to this. When you pretend there was a magic Moral Time when people were just plain good (the 1950s? The 1350s?) it is transparent political propaganda.
My half-brother is Jewish and he’s one of the best people I’ve ever known. Get offline. Maybe go hang out with some Jews and see what they are really like. People who adopt these bizarre and extreme beliefs are usually quite miserable, which is too bad. Log off.
>>24957602Extremely Jewish, hateful post.
>>24957416Christianity, the Jewish cult led by and named after a jew? Get over yourself fag.
>>24957586>>24957416Both of you are arguing from some sort of ideological framework because this is not true at all.People back then in medieval Europe were aspirationally virtuous, not therapeutic like in the modern sense that sin is just psychological, and every morality is privatized. In a medieval Christian mindset the point of life wasn’t to feel okay with yourself it was to become holy, even if that meant discomfort, discipline, or even certain death. Your desires weren’t automatically trusted; they were something to be trained for redemption. Suffering wasn’t instantly labeled as harm or injustice because it could actually mean you were being shaped, compared to today we often treat morality and rules like emotional first aid. if something hurts, it must be wrong; if it affirms you, it must be good. Back then people didn’t have a choice because they lived in a community that relied on each other, they had to be trustworthy.Virtue always points upward toward something higher than the self. Now, it usually points inward, toward managing feelings and preserving comfort. I think there’s a strong case to say that the inward shift is doing more harm, because society needs to think about other things besides themselves.
anon fighting the jews in his head
>>24957622Source: my assMeanwhile if you actually read what real people were doing in the Middle Ages you will find another tale. You think devotional works represent what people were really like. I can’t cure you of your retardation, only God can.
>>24957622Have you ever read the Canterbury Tales? I promise the author isn’t Jewish.
>>24957629Those texts existed because people weren’t living up to them obviously, you’re purposely misunderstanding what I’m trying to say. The real claim is about moral orientation, not behavior. People sinned regardless, so nobody is saying that, but they presuppose it. Christianity already assumes widespread failure. What matters is that sin was still recognized as sin, not rebranded as authenticity, therapy, or self-care. Saying “people were awful back then” doesn’t touch that point at all.The real difference isn’t that medieval people behaved better (but there were a few holy people) it’s that they didn’t redefine vice as virtue, which is just stupid. People fail to look beyond them themselves. They knew they were failing a moral law that came from outside themselves, today we often adjust the moral law to match how we feel or act. Same sinful humans, different frameworks that are either better or not mean anything; feels over reals.
>>24957644>of course medieval people sinned>the issue is, modern people sinK.
>>24957416The guy who wrote this book was a member of the Communist Party of Great Britain buddy
>>24957651bro can't fucking read
>>24957651I don’t know why you have to be spoonfed. Read nigger: Yes, medieval people sinned. The argument is about whether societies orient morality around transcendence or around the self. You’re attacking a claim no one made because you’re retarded.
>>24957651Has absolutely nothing to do with what anon was talking about
>>24957416>Marxist filthLol so pic not rel then?
>>24957653Yeah like eighty years ago. Then he changed his mind. Read the Wikipedia article a little further.
>>24957667>changed his mindHe became a socialist lol
>>24957659So you’re saying we should stop the clock and go back to a previous shape of consciousness which contains tensions which led to the state we are in now. Good luck with that. Of course you can’t really do this but you can blow up Venezuelan boats and send people with tattoos to a super max in El Salvador. It makes for good TV and keks, which is all you people really care about - image, spectacle, feels.
>>24957672Absolutely mogged
>>24957672What are you even talking about? This is a strawman and ad hominem shit sandwich. You’re clearly psychologically occupied by some autistic ideology or delusion. Act like a normal person. Am I saying we should act like it’s medieval times? In my opinion at least, it’s about moral orientation, not behavior. The point is recovering a moral orientation toward God, the general good, etc, not history. Calling it backward assumes, without argument, that truth is time-bound, which Christianity denies, Truth isn’t obsolete because it’s old. This is your feels talking, you can’t change the law; you either have it or you don’t.Dragging in Venezuelan boats, supermax prisons, and TV is just lol, it’s all irrelevant to smear what i’m saying. I can criticize modern self-centered morality all I want because there’s no foundation and it’s stupid. People sin, but modern life is moralistic confusing and they don’t try to change sin into not… being sin, I think that deserves to be mocked and that does not mean endorsing cruelty lmao.
>>24957602Idk if you got the memo but at least 1/3rd of Jews in Israel are the most deranged, racist ultranationalists in human history.
>>24957659>a society oriented around transcendence Yes I wonder what that would be like? You have a perfectly good God in heaven who tells you what’s good, and a sinful mass of humanity separated from him who try to be good. But because the principle is an other, human life becomes hypocrisy, as you lot admit when you say the medievals were sinful, but had a good mindset about it. This is an unstable worldview and it collapses into what we have now. This individualism contains its own tensions. But instead of looking forward you hold onto this fantasy of returning to a golden past. It’s not happening, and even the stance you take is only in reaction to the present, which is why it’s so retarded, ineffectual, and historically and philosophically illiterate.
>>24957717They did have a good mindset about it and I think that’s more important than you think, which is nothingNo one claimed a “golden past” existed; the argument is about moral orientation toward God or a general good, not pretending humans were perfect. Pointing out that medieval people were sinful doesn’t collapse the worldview, it merely confirms Christian anthropology: all are fallen, all need grace. Saying this “leads inevitably to modern individualism” is a slippery slope with zero proof btw. I don’t know how you could ever get to that possibility. Critiquing self-centered morality isn’t reactionary or nostalgic or whatever; it’s actually timeless putting a person doesn’t want to follow the rules in his place, grounded in the same virtues, moral law, God etc, revealed then as now. All this ad hominem doesn’t address the argument at all. The tension in human life under a God is intended, not a flaw; the collapse only occurs when the self replaces God as the measure, which is sin.
>>24957717>But instead of looking forward you hold onto this fantasy of returning to a golden past.Are you just pretending to not understand what his contention is? What’s the point of that?
>>24957739This is an LLM response.Jesus didn't rise and he's never coming back.
>>24957747>Chimping out. love it see it, hahah.
>>24957750I wasn't the guy you were talking to, and I'm not "chimping out".Jesus did not rise and he's never coming back. Read this over and over until it sinks into that low IQ brain of yours.
>>24957752You couldn’t even bait at the level of the discourse here and now you’re talking about IQ? You lost.
>>24957666Begone Satan, Marxism is of God
>>24957760I'm not baiting, I'm just writing the truth.Jesus did not rise from the dead, and he is never, ever coming back. The bible is not the word of God. Read this over and over until it sinks in.
>>24957739You are illiterate, you can’t understand an argument. The points I made flew clear over your head because you don’t hear them in your echo chambers. “But… what’s wrong with seeing God as transcendent?” I just told you, I laid it out step by step. I should say to be fair God is not an absolute other in these traditions - as you say he is transcendent. But the schism between actual life and God is real. If you don’t understand how this position collapses into individualism I can’t help you.
The god in the bible does not exist.Jesus did not rise from the dead and he's never coming back.The Universe/Nature is God.
>>24957773Not him, but you provide no mechanism by which transcendence even at its best must necessarily dissolve into individualism. You gesture towards hypocrisy as if it was this profound defeater, even though it’s well integrated into the system anon was advancing. Why is therapeutic moralism perfectly sufficient? Why was the medieval moral orientation particularly deficient or meaningless? What do you suggest instead?
>>24957616Wow you are childish
>>24957826> but you provide no mechanism by which transcendence evenI did, I showed it collapses into hypocrisy. You’re completely illiterate, like most zoomers.
>>24957672>So you’re saying we should stop the clock and go back to a previous shape of consciousness which contains tensions which led to the state we are in now.Begone Hegelian scum
>>24957586>When you pretend there was a magic Moral Time when people were just plain good (the 1950s? The 1350s?)there was a magic moral time when people believed Jesus Christ
>>24957416Seething /pol/tard>>24957586Retarded strawman
>>24957622Excellent post. Unfortunately, folks like >>24957629 are incapable of anything more than knee jerk reaction. Of course his response doesn't even contradict what you wrote, but they don't really read once they're triggered I've noticed.
>>24957899What drives goyim like you to defend the pilpul that upholds Semitic power structures? That is, unless you're a kike yourself.
>>24957865No, you just asserted that individuals under a transcendental moral system could be hypocritical, and that would lead to individualism. Failure and hypocrisy are presupposed in the Christian framework, so you’ll need to demonstrate how it is you get from hypocrisy to individualism, instead of just saying it just happens. This is your argument right? A) Medieval morality posits a transcendent standard B) Humans systematically fail to live up to that standard.C) Therefore, lived moral life is structurally hypocritical.D) A morality that produces hypocrisy collapses into individualism or bad faith.How do you get from C to D? How do you justify D? What is the structural/essential cause of C and D, leaving aside incidental occurrences underneath the system? Seething anytime someone engages you unnecessarily paints you as being insecure.
>>24957622Wrong. Everyone was miserable and constantly tortured and executed if they ever said anything the totalitarian, authoritarian Church and king didn't like before modernity. Life was suffering. Everyone died constantly. It was absolutely horrible.Only once the dark dogmatism of religion was pushed back by the brilliant light of science and reason and PROGRESS started did life become good for anyone but the authoritarian priests. The priests were also evil and miserable as Nietzsche shows, because they had a corrupt internally destroying will to power. But after progress think of how great the world is. Much better. TV, music, internet, heat, water, roads, safety, and you can say whatever you like and not get lit on fire.People were awful before modernity and only totally ignorant of evil fools want to go back.
>>24957916Thanks for showing us the party line as a foil
>>24957602>one of the best people I’ve ever knownyeah he identifies with the people who killed Christ, and the people who just blew up 70% of the buildings in gaza, but other than that hes the nicest person. oh and also the people who ruin your life if you say anything nice about germans. but the thing is, the whole point of being on this earth is to find out about Jesus Christ. your buddy does that, he gets the good ending
>>24957672>>24957586>>24957629Mark Fisher was absolutely right when he said that any leftward attack of neoliberalism outside a thin range of progressive neoliberal orthodoxy gets immediately labeled as Stalinism and compared to the worst of the USSR. I have now realized this hold for any appeal outside nominalism and liberalism from the direction of teleology and realism. You immediately get told you MUST think the past is a perfect golden age and want theocracy. It's the same message: "there is no other option. All that exists is our ideology and abject human misery."The irony of course is that modernity and liberalism has overseen stuff like chattel slavery, the genocide of an entire continent, colonial wars killing millions, the worst Gilded Age abused, etc. etc.
>>24957916
>>24957826This, Anon's demonstration has no conceptual, let alone logical connection between its premises and conclusion. Apparently, >>24957865 thinks it is obvious but I cannot even guess as to why. I assume they are assuming certain premises they don't want to make explicit, such as:>God doesn't exist. Therefore grace can play no role here.But even assuming that doesn't secure his conclusion. He could at least get to:>Hypocrisy is bad and unstable and so worse than a therapeutic morality And yet here it seems he will have to simply assume the truth of the therapeutic mindset to secure the conclusion that hypocrisy in striving for a high goal is worse than settling for an instrumental morality. This is by no means obvious even with that assumption though, and the assumption is question begging.But the linkage from hypocrisy to individualism makes no sense.
>>24957924>has overseen stuff like chattel slaveryslavery happens all the time, the slave payments are mockingly called "child support" and imposed by the satanists on men who dont have the izzat to resist getting they kids stole
>>24957924Just retort back that modernity is unironically a promethean/Luciferarian revolution built entirely upon the technological slavery of the natural world, which inevitably result in the enslavement of all humanity; it was Bacon who deemed this vision for modernity in the most promethean/Luciferarian of terms, while being a mega homosexual and a Freemason. Liberalism will be ruptured by technological advance, this is something Fukuyama gleamed but seems to turn his gaze away from it these days. Roger Griffins conception of fascism is very appealing when you grasp the true nature of modernity this way.
>>24957960This. The true, ultimate and unavoidable spiritual logic of the ontologies of difference is violence, truth as violence, and so fascism.Instrumental mastery over nature becomes the instrumental mastery of the human being by himself. But there is no rational core to this ordering of desire to desire, there cannot be. It's all ultimately arbitrary and so empty, a slide into sheer multiplicity and potency, materialism in the truest sense. This sort of "instrumentality all the way down" is revealed as diabolical in the Desert Fathers, Dante, etc. Hume's dictum that reason ought to be the slave of the passions is an inversion of all past wisdom. If you want an idea if where this bottoms out, read R. Scott Bakker's Crash Space. Huxley's A Brave New World is just one of the kinder rest stops on the way to this sort of total disintegration.Modernity is a shipwreck and every man must swim for his life.
>>24957991>The true, ultimate and unavoidable spiritual logic of the ontologies of difference is violence, truth as violence, and so fascism.could you elaborate?
>>24957416bump
>>24957916this but unironically
>>24957416>virtue ethicsMan can do what he wills, but he cannot will what he wills. Man can do evil, but he cannot will to do good.
>>24957586Amazing how the jew appeared out of the woodwork to out himself lol
