>>24962299
Is anybody interested in reading a novel about an ex-mormon in S. America?

>>24962299
no

File: Fitzhugh Sociology for th(...).png (207 KB, 720x285)

207 KB PNG

>>24962299

Abolish freedom of religion. I want to bash mormon skulls.

>>24965300
"In the balmy days of royalty, of feudal nobility, and of Catholic rule, there were no poor in Europe"
Imagine being an American and defending popery

>>24965365
Why?

>>24962427
what is it about

>>24968078
it's a complex bildungsroman which combines love (and friendship) story with philosophical novel. it's a tragedy

>>24968217
sounds obscure

>>24966270
Because I think so.

>>24968247
it has a good pace, even though it's a literary novel

>>24962299
Book of Mormon /lit/ book club when?

>>24968726
Would need to be built up with other Joseph Smith works
www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1?lang=eng

>>24962427
Maybe if it's funny
T. ex-mormon in Brazil

dum dum dum dum dum

File: African Bible.jpg (113 KB, 907x1360)

113 KB JPG

>>24968777
What do you think of this geography theory

>>24968799
I think the TRVKE of this revelation should be spread as widely as possible among the members.

>>24968777
it's hilarious in a few places. i guess you can call it a tragicomedy

>>24968799
it's a FREAKIN bible!

>>24969151
so it is true to the real experience.

>>24962299
This stupid fanfic making the /lit/ Top 100 this year would sincerely be better than the Bible being at #1 again.
Incredibly annoying that this fucking website is infested with faux-Christian larpers. Nobody that has ever visited The Hacker Known As Fourth Channel will see Heaven; it's fucking embarrassing having to deal with all the roleplayers that can't grasp such a basic Truth.

>>24969474
i guess you can see it as an anti-BOM. it is also called BOM, btw

>>24969554
it is a real ancient text and you can tell by reading it

Merry Christmas everyone
www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/1?lang=eng

I think Joseph Smith was insane. I think he had some sort of mental episode that put the Book of Mormon together. I don't think he was just shitting, I think he was genuinely crazy, and reading the book only confirms this.

>>24968777
>T. ex-mormon in Brazil
I would like to get your feedback from that perspective

>>24968777
>>24970734
Seconded.

>>24969554
based

>>24962299
I'm still reading the Hebrew Bible (at the Book of Exodus right now). Once I'm done maybe I'll read this.

>>24973499
5 books of Moses are most essential reading alongside the NT, the rest is just as good but not as essential. Understanding the Book of Mormon makes understanding the rest of the Bible as much easier as you put in to reading the Book of Mormon, and they compound in as interesting a way as possible.

>>24973953
Does it comment on the NT? I'm interested in Matthew.

>>24976050
Don't bother, it's all fanfiction and plagiarism. Interesting if you're interested in the history of 19th-century American religion, sure, but there'a no real wisdom or revelation to be found in it.

>>24976215
>no real wisdom or revelation to be found in it
Joseph Smith's story is that he literally prayed for wisdom from God, so to me the book is the purest wisdom, God doesn't give bad gifts, people just aren't able to wrap their heads around it, which is part of what makes it wise - it is like how the Bible NT filters Jews who are stuck on misreading the OT to contradict it when they are 100% compatible; NT says "judge not by appearance, judge righteously" and it takes a willingness to do away with faulty judgments against the BoM to be able to dig the true revelations that are in it, which are still game-changing even after the book has been out for so long because it takes a certain willingness to entertain it to get the true gold out of it.
>if you're interested in the history of 19th-century American religion
Go for Doctrine and Covenants for that, it is a better book than any other American religious sect, actually better than all other American developments put together.
>plagiarism
Not so, the Book of Mormon borrows accepted points from other scriptures to be sure, but it uses those to hang its completely fresh and new ideas, all of which are completely sound and worthy to be tested. It is actually completely unique.
>fanfiction
Not so. Mormon has a way of writing his narrative where he spins it to be a sort of bible-like book; it is important to note that it is retrospective from his point of view, looking back at Christian developments and telling a concise story of his people, and using that to hang his own discourses on. If it is fiction [which is harder to believe than fact once you've read it], not only for the quality of the discourses does it outlast all other literature for its true Gospel, it would have to be better at replicating an ancient author than even the best novelists could possibly try to forge.

>>24976050
Whole thing is a NT commentary and elaboration, in context of the whole Bible, as well as the rest of the world. It doesn't dip into the tropes of NT commentary though and offers a good fresh perspective that is mainly in service of fulfilling the depth of thought that can be derived from a Bible read; it is entirely meant to increase the Biblical witness and not usurp it by some word-of-man garbage with false commands.

>>24976050
Have you read Luke & Acts?

>>24976050
>>24976774
or Hebrews?

>>24976774
>>24976873

What do these say?

>>24977940
Luke is a very fine Matthew redux, Acts is a direct sequel about the Apostles and is essential; Hebrews is key to the rest of the Epistles.

>>24978416
thanks, i will check them out.

>>24962299
>Another testament of Jesus Christ
>Another
Gets me every time. "Yeah fuck it, its just another one guys, in the desert again but this time in utah not judea, or something"

File: The_Book_of_Mormon-_An_Ac(...).jpg (3.91 MB, 3081x4568)

3.91 MB JPG

>>24978492
The added subtitle "Another Testament of Jesus Christ" is controversial, I think it makes sense, but I prefer the original title page

>>24978552
it reminds me of the other other white meat

>>24980203
The new subtitle is redeemed by the fact that the book actually delivers on the promise, even if unexpectedly.

>>24962427
what is it?

>>24982847
Should have more for you in a week or two.

>>24962299
voted

>>24969554
>Nobody that has ever visited The Hacker Known As Fourth Channel will see Heaven
>can't even criticize the Faith without Her terms
rent free

>>24976348
>Joseph Smith's story is that he literally prayed for wisdom from God, so to me the book is the purest wisdom, God doesn't give bad gifts
Joseph Smith was a liar, deceived by the devil, and he was not, is not, nor will ever be a prophet. He was deceived by the devil. Every book of "Mormon" should be burned and every statue of your miserable wastrel of a "prophet" should be ground to dust. You embarrass the Church of Jesus Christ and make us look like gullible fools while you prance about with your polygamist, freemasonic fairytales. Joseph Smith was an antichrist and your whole religion is a blackmark on Christians everywhere. Repent.

>>24969554
I think that's a bizarre assertion. There's nothing on 4chan that's so terrible. That's like saying anyone who steps out of their house will never go to heaven

File: parousia.png (559 KB, 1148x1902)

559 KB PNG

>>24984808
>Joseph Smith was a liar, deceived by the devil, and he was not, is not, nor will ever be a prophet.

You're so close to another important realization

>>24984808
>He was deceived by the devil
To believe what?

>>24984995

That men can become gods, the same lie Satan told to Adam in the garden

>>24985020
Ye are gods? That was Jesus

>>24984995
That he was a prophet. Name ONE of his new teachings.
>>24984833
>didn't read

>>24987240
Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is finally defined - its referenced in the NT but not explained. Joseph Smith says it's choosing to sin against the Holy Ghost once the heavens have been opened up to you.

Also, a lot of interesting fine points about how human agency is central, and choosing to do the will of God, to being saved.

>>24987240
He also explains how evil spirits aren't allowed to manifest physically unlike angels. There really is a lot of new material in the BoM, D&C, and PGP.

>>24987240
He also reckons polytheism to be interpreted through the true monotheistic lens, with other "gods" or any beings with agency not "God" in the same way as the one. So you can read pagan texts through a Christian lens, taking the wisdom without the idolatry.

>>24988246
>Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is ... to sin against the Holy Ghost
>Blaspheming is to sin against
This is embarrassing in the deepest sense and an absolute abortion of thought. The category defines the species? Is this your brain on the devil?
>Also, a lot of interesting fine points about how human agency is central, and choosing to do the will of God, to being saved.
Literally every Church Father ever thought this.
>>24988249
>evil spirits aren't allowed to manifest physically unlike angels
This is just not necessarily true nor does it follow from Scripture or Tradition but is just "vibe theology."
>>24988251
>He also reckons polytheism to be interpreted through the true monotheistic lens, with other "gods" or any beings with agency not "God" in the same way as the one. So you can read pagan texts through a Christian lens, taking the wisdom without the idolatry.
Accounted for by Early Church Fathers and only the most wretched of loathsome heretics in their bible-thumping devil cult of evangelical dogs who traded their souls and the Eucharist for book clubs think that the pagans were bereft of all wisdom.

So far, Joseph Smith, liar, polygamist, and anti-Christ, has said:
>Intellectually incorrect statement
>Redundancies to early Church Fathers
>Speculative angelogy
Astounding. Origen and Tertullian can get you all of this in 200AD without the polygamy or the lies. Mormons are a scandal to religion everywhere and Catholicism, the Church Jesus Christ founded, a Virgin, and not your sex-addict freemason. Maybe I should pretend to be a prophet and marry your sisters--that'd be great! Repent.

>>24988711
3 Nephi 11:29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.

Is it worth it trying to get a Latter Day Saints gf?

>>24988790
>For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.
Burn your copy of the Book of Mormon. Do yourself a favor.
>>24988989
The only thing they have going for them is that they are mostly blondes.

>open Book of Mormon
>look inside
>Solomon Spalding's Manuscript Found
curious

>>24988790
>>24988790
>I answer that, Anger, as stated above (Article 1), is properly the name of a passion. A passion of the sensitive appetite is good in so far as it is regulated by reason, whereas it is evil if it set the order of reason aside. Now the order of reason, in regard to anger, may be considered in relation to two things. First, in relation to the appetible object to which anger tends, and that is revenge. Wherefore if one desire revenge to be taken in accordance with the order of reason, the desire of anger is praiseworthy, and is called "zealous anger" [Cf. Gregory, Moral. v, 45. On the other hand, if one desire the taking of vengeance in any way whatever contrary to the order of reason, for instance if he desire the punishment of one who has not deserved it, or beyond his deserts, or again contrary to the order prescribed by law, or not for the due end, namely the maintaining of justice and the correction of defaults, then the desire of anger will be sinful, and this is called sinful anger.
https://www.newadvent.org/summa/3158.htm#article2
Here is a statement from someone that wasn't the devil's pawn. Let's review why I'm zealously angry:
>You were raised by lies by your parents and accepted it
>The very existence of mormonism undermines Christianity systematically and leads people to Hell
>Joseph Smith was clearly a sexual degenerate
>I want nothing bad to happen to you whatsoever but only for you to repent of the lies that were infested in your upbringing
Let me be clear, you were raised in Hell. You articulate a religion that is vile, disgusting, and wrong. It has NOTHING to do with Jesus Christ other than to pervert it for yourselves (your baptisms aren't even valid) and make Christians look like gullible sentimentalists (like Mormons). It only exists because they keep a stable full of blond people wince-smiling and biting their tongues for the devil. Didn't the "church" teach that black people couldn't be priests? Didn't they already change their "teaching" on contraception? That was fast.

>>24989079
John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

>>24989057
t. didnotread

>>24988989
there’s one complaining about not getting a husband in one of the other threads here about University

>>24989079
So you're catholic?

Joseph Smith is great proof that length != depth
Book of Mormon is such a waste of time that it obscures the real gold later revelations like the Book of Abraham brought

>>24989236
They say what matters is thickness.

>>24987240
Joseph Smith revealed an entirely original, and at the same time intuitive and commonsensical, understanding of metaphysics. This goes over the head of most people, including Mormons (whose understanding remains unconscious), but it remains true, and those who have experienced this worldview cannot escape it, hence the fact that no exmormons become sincere religionists of any other denomination.

>>24987240
Jesus Christ going to America, among other things. Which is an oddly intuitive thing, imo. It makes sense to me, at least.
>>24989294
A lot of it is dowsntream of Freemasonry though.

>>24989409
>A lot of it is dowsntream of Freemasonry though.
I'm not very familiar with Freemasonry so I'm not sure where what the extent of this (there is the temple endowment of course). I abstained from defining this original metaphysics because I feared I would be misunderstood, and given the subject my attempt would be analogous to summarizing the essence of a poem (which I am hardly an expert). Mormonism is a less a set of doctrines as a living worldview of the nature and destiny of man. Departing from Plato, Mormonism views individual beings as the fundamental "unit" of reality, eternal and uncreated (hence aligned more with the Veda than with the Church fathers), rather than God or Beauty and the Good, and God is therefore is one being among all beings, and is literally the father of all human beings on earth (though he didn't create them from nothing, and hence he cannot be blamed for the innate evil of many of his sons and daughters).
Weininger wrote:
>The most profound minds have always recognized that the essence of the concept of God, and its meaning for humans, is that God is the perfected human being, and the perfected human, like Jesus Christ, is God, and that belief in God is just the highest form of belief in oneself. Lesser minds, to be sure, have never quite grasped this. It is, however, the greatest conceivable misunderstanding of the idea of God, and applicable only to the Jewish concept of God, to say with Schopenhauer (New Paralipomena, § 395): “As soon as God is posited, I am nothing”, or with Nietzsche (Thus Spake Zarathustra: “But friends, to tell you what I really think: if there were a God, how could I bear not being one? Therefore there is no God.” The ego is not diminished but enhanced through any true faith.
This is nature of Mormonism, but it still remains authentically Jewish and connected with the Old Testament, and without any glaring contradiction, probably because the family (and hence sexuality) is of primary importance as the form which relates human beings in synergy.

>>24989139
t. did not agree
>>24989130
>look, I used the Bible passages where Jesus says to not judge so you need to be quiet while I lie and then you need to pretend to not have convictions because that's polite Christianity
Repent.
>>24989171
I strive to be in full communion with Church that Jesus, God, founded.

>>24989949
>incapable of righteous judgment
>has no indwelling of the Holy Ghost
>"Guess I'll just judge based on - feeling. I feel angy rn"
+ non-answer confirming he supports priesthood being confined to an organization which mandates celibacy and infant baptism

>>24989488
>Mormonism views individual beings as the fundamental "unit" of reality
Everything wants to turn the focus away from the intelligent agents that inhabit the world - all sorts of materialism focus on things that are merely experiences of individuals. Only a truly intelligent faith would be able to ground things in the experience of reality, in the experiencers, individual selves, as they relate to God as well.

>>24989409
>America
see>>24968799

>>24989289
What about acuteness?

>>24991012
>confined to an organization
Sacrament of Holy Orders*. Repent, heretic.

>>24993424
cuteness is important

>>24984818
when I was 16 I saw actual CP on /b/. twice.
this is an intrinsically Satanic place no matter how hard the teenaged larpfags seethe over it. even lurking here permanently mars your soul, and there is no escape.

>>24994983
are you a Satanist?

>>24994990
"Satanism" is redditor nonsense that's only called that because it triggers middle-aged retards.
My point is that there are no Christians on this website, and anyone trying to claim otherwise is either schizophrenic or just lying to you because they don't have enough of an internal life to have real hobbies.

>>24994647
Holy Orders don't negate Holy Spirit. It is you who are the heretic.

>>24995024
You know what, you are probably right, it not literally. Everyone should move on from this place

maybe... maybe the point is to be the same person you were last year

>>24994983
That's a shame to hear

>>24962299
>Book of mormon
>looks like 300-350 pages long
>open it
>800 pages
How do they do it? Why isn't this being replicated by any editorial?

>>24996851
It's specially designed to be pocketable like Pocket Ref

>>24965898
Tou're talking about the guy who wanted to extend slavery to white people. Dude was deranged.

>>24994983
teenage larpfags are just as annoying as nuatheists were when i was a kid, but have you considered that it's partially because of this website itself that people would desire to seek redemption?

>>24995369
>zero reading comprehension
>sola scriptura
Tell me, where do they list the books of the Bible in the Bible? Oh, they don't. Your theology is straw made to be burned.
>>24994983
>even lurking here permanently mars your soul,
>Like, Jesus dined with like, prostitutes bro
>Like, larpfags, are like, going to the hell I don't believe in bro
Heresy is worse than CP. It's hilarious watching terminal cynicism try to do with a Christianity that isn't just the most pathetic indiferrentism.
>Christians should do x and no I'm not a Christian
Opinion dismissed
>>24995024
>"Satanism" is redditor nonsense
And your soul is literally totally controlled by the devil. Isn't that ironic? I didn't read the rest of your post because I would prefer to not get dumber.

>>24998298
O B S E S S E D

File: 61c+S7ellpL._AC_UF1000,10(...).jpg (58 KB, 661x1000)

58 KB JPG

>>24978492
Thoughts?

>>24996851
Half of it is an index with cross references

>>24994647
Where do you find mandatory lifelong celibacy in the Bible?

>>24969104
and I have never heard of this before

>>24998719
it looks like some kind of chastity cage

>>25000410
>Where do you find mandatory lifelong celibacy in the Bible?
Did Jesus marry? Was His ministry "invalidated" by His lifelong celibacy? Scriptural data:
>And Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage; but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection." Luke 20
>Now concerning the unmarried, I have no command of the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy. I think that in view of the impending distress it is well for a person to remain as he is. Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage. But if you marry, you do not sin, and if a girl marries she does not sin. Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. 1 Corinthians 7
Keep in mind there is no point in citing Scripture if you think Scripture is the only authority because then you need to explain where the list of scriptural books come from and that is basically not answerable without the Catholic Church, and thus, all Protestants are heretical, schismatic, or incorrect in a fundamental sense and dishonor Scripture in so far as they persist in their refusal to acknowledge that Jesus founded the Catholic Church. Did Jesus even write? The Master did not found a book club.
>>24998583
>reduced to word art
The legion of the devil is basically the most cringe thing in the world. Repent.

He wrote an entire book without using q, x, or w. The 3 letters that just happened to not be used in ancient Hebrew. A language he had no way of knowing existing or ever having encountered.

Mormonism deniers should just end it.

>>25003587
>QXWQXWQXWQXWQXWQXWQXWQXWQXWQXWQXWQXWQXWQXW
ahahahha wow this is so pathetic. Look, mom, now I can't be a prophet!!!!

>>25002347
faggot
>>25003453
faggot

New List: >>25003794

>>25003453
It is a false commandment of man to gatekeep ministry of the Gospel behind mandatory celibacy. If you can't see that you have a beam in your eye.

>>25003768
no u

File: IMG_0342.png (602 KB, 1179x660)

602 KB PNG

Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
Moroni 10:3-5

>>25003813
>ministry of the Gospel
What could this possibly mean? Formally teaching it? Being paid to teach it? Having weddings? What about funerals? Are those different or the same "ministry"? The issue is that heretics use words that don't have a clear meaning and then expect them to stand up to any scrutiny and they do not. "Ministry of the Gospel" could mean running hospitals or even just buying a poor person lunch. You can do nearly all of the "ministering" except confecting the Sacraments.
>>25003836
>Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
This offers no new insight.
>And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
This has to be true because no one has EVER in the HISTORY of humanity been tricked by prayer. Especially if they ask in the name of "Christ." Btw, you test demons by the name of "Jesus" or asking them to say that "Blessed by the name of Jesus." Test it now, ask the "guardian angel" of the Mormon Church (I just did it) to say "Blessed be the name of Jesus." It can't. It can say, "Blessed be Christ," which Christ is a generic term, Jesus, Master, is the specific Godman, but it can't say, "Jesus is my master." It can say, "Jesus is." Jesus is not master of the Mormon Church. The Mormon Church is ran by a demon.
>And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
What is Joseph Smith's demon actually saying here? If you agree with me, you are a good boy sent by God. If you do not, well you are a bad boy deceived by the demons. Also, now I have sixty wives. This is just obvious deception. Watch:
>If you disagree with the Catholic Church you disagree with the Holy Spirit
Now you must surely submit!!! You see!!! This is identical to how the Qu'ran is written fwiw, probably the same demon imo. The Holy Catholic Church is true because She was founded by Jesus Christ and is sustained by the Sacraments He left us and not because St. Paul, or St. Peter, or any of the Apostles said so. Ask the Spirit guiding the Catholic Church to "bless the name of Jesus" in prayer. Again, prayer can be deceptive, but a safe prayer you would agree you should be able to pray is: "Jesus, command the spirit that you prefer, either one that runs the Catholic or the Mormon Church, to rule my life." I just prayed that.

>>25003928
>You can do nearly all of the "ministering" except confecting the Sacraments
Commandment of man

>>25003928
see:
>>24988790

>>25003951
Did God command the Sacraments? What is a Sacrament? How do you know which are from God and which from man?
>>25003944
What does it mean to disagree with something? Would I not trick you into believing that I'm a prophet via the same mechanism? How does Jesus, the Master, God need prophets? Was He not enough? How can there be prophets when they stopped with St. John the Baptist?

>>25003984
What is your point?

>>25003928
What do you have against the Qur'an? Your Pope kissed one.

>>25003928
"Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself to all nations" (Book of Mormon title page)
You're retarded. It's called the Church of Jesus Christ, not the Mormon Church. Stop asking spirits questions and talk to God.

>>25004005
>Stop asking spirits questions and talk to God.
If he did that he would have to stop being Catholic.

>>25004005
Who wrote that title page? The prayer above is addressed to Jesus. You won't pray it because you already know the answer to it and hate the answer.
>>25003995
The Qu'ran is a rag written in the same way Joseph Smith wrote his garbage pile of Hell-filth.
>>25003990
Repent.

>>25004022
>xyz is a rag
Jews say that about the New Testament, how do you refute them?

>>25004016
Oh look the easily deceived sola scriptura Protestant and the polygamist worshipper have teamed up against the Truth. The devil's legion is growing! Adorable. Call all your smart friends and bring them here too.

>>25004022
If Joseph Smith is fake, how did he make predictions that all stuck? https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/87?lang=eng

>>25004026
>Jews say that about the New Testament, how do you refute them?
>Jews
The people whose God abandoned them without a temple, prophet, or even law? The people who God lost their address? Is that a joke? Judaism is as loathsome as all of these festering half-truths you people call "religions."

>>25004035
Do you loathe the keeping of Judaism? Or the failure of Jews to uphold it?

>>25004034
>If Joseph Smith is fake, how did he make predictions that all stuck?
Did Jesus just forget about His people for 1,800 years? He appointed shepherds because He had compassion on us or is that a lie or was Jesus too stupid to figure out how to start a Church? If Joseph Smith can do then surely God could found a Church.

>>25004042
You would need a human being to mediate Jesus to you, the same Jesus the perfect mediator? Where in the Gospel do you find that?

>>25004038
At root what I loath is that Jews cannot explain how Moses to John the Baptist had regular, aggressive, and frequent prophets and then they suddenly stopped. Also, Judaism has no central authority like it used to (even its different schools had a singular "high priest" but now innumerable types of "rabbis"). The first temple was destroyed so it's not the temple. The people were way more sinful before so it's not that. The only explanation is that Judaism accidentally says that God is a liar. I actually like Jewish people a lot and find most Mormons to be genuinely kind people and intending Christians and most Protestants are quite fun, but this is 4chan and not a bar.

>>25004046
JESUS LITERALLY SENDS 72 PEOPLE OUT WHEN HE'S ALIVE. HAVE YOU READ THE THING?????

>>25004052
"Sola Scriptura" doesn't mean, whatever I read out of the bible is all I will be held to; "Sola Scriptura" means whatever God intends by the scriptures is what we will be held to, and it is not guaranteed anywhere to be enough to accept a blind guide with a fancy dress for a mediator of God's way.

>>25004052
>>25004038
I'm not certain how Judaism can be logically kept fwiw. I think Judaism clearly has a rupture in continual priesthood that the Bishop of Rome does not have.

>>25004054
What happened to the 72? If the church can atrophy the literal institutions of Jesus, how can we be sure it can't muddy the Gospel with commandments of man? At least the Mormon church has the 72 + 12 structure back, whatever you say about the effectuality of their ministry.

>>25004063
>scriptures
Where did the list of books of scriptures come from? What about books mentioned in 1 Kings that no longer exist? Are those lost real books of scripture? Who gets to decide what is in each book? Who maintained them? What manuscripts are most authoritative when they disagree slightly? Who says? These things are only explainable by the Church.

>>25004072
Joseph Smith is right about the Song of Songs not being inspired writings, and also about some of the Apocrypha being true.

>>25004071
>how can we be sure it can't muddy the Gospel with commandments of man?
Because the Church has the power to forgive Sin and is led by God. You can't surprise Jesus by sin nor is He too irresponsible to account for it. Jesus either loved us enough to appoint shepherds and account for our terribleness or He didn't.

>>25004078
>Because the Church has the power to forgive Sin
Positively true when it is but that doesn't negate forgiveness outside of a particular organization
>led by God
To the extent that the humans of whatever organization seek and are able to find God in the present day

>>25004075
>Joseph Smith is right about the Song of Songs not being inspired writings
What??? Song of Songs is fully inspired by the Holy Spirit as affirmed and cited by countless Church Fathers. CGPT how many of them cited it as Scripture and count them by century.

>>25004081
A proof of the fact that the Church Fathers were not equal to scripture

>>25004080
>Positively true when it is but that doesn't negate forgiveness outside of a particular organization
This is actually true. Confession helps solidify the forgiveness and form your conscience (what to confess, why, how often, etc.). If not, why not confess while sinning?
>To the extent that the humans of whatever organization seek and are able to find God in the present day
This is a fair point to an extent. There is an idea in the Orthodox Church (valid Sacraments but in schism) that the Church is only guaranteed one saint and otherwise nothing else. The Church's authority and Magisterium is narrower and more refined. E.g. my bishop is not infallible but he can command certain things about how I practice the Faith.

>>25004081
It's only in there because Jews used it annually in liturgy, and was therefore retained in Hebrew copies rather than the books of the Apocrypha that were lost.

>>25004084
Jesus didn't just abandon us for 1,800 years. This is the meaning of the Church's omnipresence.

>>25004086
Look up why the Church Fathers, who actually literally included it, said they put it in. Did they lie? Why would they? Who would you rather believe, St. Augustine who gave up the flesh or Joseph Smith that "married" fifty plus times?

>>25004085
Confession to God is all I know, as any other cannot possibly mediate better than God himself.
I'll tell you you can have valid sacraments within whatever organization, what matters is the presence of God.

>>25004093
>Confession to God is all I know, as any other cannot possibly mediate better than God himself.
You are viewing it as a limited mediation rather than as a specifying mediation. God wants to forgive you your sins, how do you know you're doing it correctly?

>>25004088
Of course not. The iniquity of man has been a constant that every generation has had to overcome. Roman Catholicism sustained itself better than the East because the East was subject more to worldly powers; this is part of why Byzantium is a lost civilization; Catholicism itself waxed old and lost the favor when there was manifest effective ministry outside of it; old high-church Protestantism waxed old too and in America great iniquity was overcome with the establishment of freedom of religion, which has its own problems for us to overcome today, namely general apostasy.

>>25004090
They like to interpret it within the lens of the parables of the virgins and the bridegrooms and such, but that doesn't make it inspired intrinsically.

>>25004100
Holy Ghost is the only pure way to know.

>>25004106
>waxed old and lost the favor
Does popularity dictate its truth? Does fervency even?
> but that doesn't make it inspired intrinsically.
The reason we have the book in the first place is because they thought it was.
>Holy Ghost is the only pure way to know.
God doesn't just whisper in your ear. Also, what is a sin? Is tobacco? Is heroin? Is coffee? What about desserts? Is masturbation? What about birth control? None of these are in the Bible. God cares enough about you to not let you just guess.

>>25004113
Hebrews considered anything not Law or Prophets to be in a grab-bag, some they kept in Hebrew, some they didn't because it was too Hellenized perhaps; so when the book was compiled in Greek it had whatever the Jews had as national literature; the only thing that whittled down the Septuagint was 1. Everything we still had in Hebrew was kept, and 2. Organizations chose what to do with the rest. Catholics have a handful of texts; the best Joseph Smith gives is to defer judgment and to say that some of the Apocrypha is indeed inspired, and you can kind of tell if you read it.

>>25004113
>God doesn't just whisper in your ear
No indeed, it is more a whispering of the spirit to the heart
>tobacco
Joseph Smith says not for the body or belly, but I smoke cigars which only goes in the mouth; seems fine to me.
>heroin
What do you think?
>coffee
"Hot drinks" are enjoined against by the Word of Wisdom; so, when I drink coffee I blow on it to make sure that it is cool enough.
>desserts
idk
>masturbation
Good question
>birth control
Good question, there's probably a line that can be drawn somewhere; but those would be lines of man with inference from the scripture, and therefore not equal to commandments of God he spoke.

>>25004113
God sustained Catholicism because it was better than letting the governments of Europe dictate to their subjects, up to the exact point that it wasn't, then he let things go the way they did, which was only the bare minimum possible way for things to go, and not some higher ideal.

>>25004118
Things being debated does not mean that debates cannot be authoritatively settled.
>Ketuvim border is basically whatever I say it is
>some they kept in Hebrew, some they didn't because it was too Hellenized perhaps;
>some Jews were bilingual
Insightful. Is Scripture only authoritative in its original language? No.
>so when the book was compiled in Greek
It's called the Septuagint you heretic. Masoeretic text coping is honestly shameful beyond belief.
>Organizations chose what to do with the rest
You think the Maccabees thought they were in a club? Daniel thought that they had some nice non-profits?
>the best Joseph Smith gives is to defer judgment
Your polygamist liar doesn't give anything of value to the Faith.
>defer judgment
Council of Trent settled it.
> say that some of the Apocrypha is indeed inspired
Oh look it's God! Hey, God, thanks for clarifying that.
> you can kind of tell if you read it.
Bro I just like vibe-checked it, it's totally fine. Not only are you sophisticated but you are a sophisticate purveyor of a lie whose central logical nodes are covered up. Your judgment will be far worse than your mid-wit friend. Repent. Also, freemasonry is incompatible with the Catholic Church.

>>25004127
>Good question
>The traditional Catholic doctrine that masturbation constitutes a grave moral disorder is often called into doubt or expressly denied today. It is said that psychology and sociology show that it is a normal phenomenon of sexual development, especially among the young. It is stated that there is real and serious fault only in the measure that the subject deliberately indulges in solitary pleasure closed in on self ("ipsation"), because in this case the act would indeed be radically opposed to the loving communion between persons of different sex which some hold is what is principally sought in the use of the sexual faculty. This opinion is contradictory to the teaching and pastoral practice of the Catholic Church. https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19751229_persona-humana_en.html
>Neither is it valid to argue, as a justification for sexual intercourse which is deliberately contraceptive, that a lesser evil is to be preferred to a greater one, or that such intercourse would merge with procreative acts of past and future to form a single entity, and so be qualified by exactly the same moral goodness as these. Though it is true that sometimes it is lawful to tolerate a lesser moral evil in order to avoid a greater evil or in order to promote a greater good," it is never lawful, even for the gravest reasons, to do evil that good may come of it (18)—in other words, to intend directly something which of its very nature contradicts the moral order, and which must therefore be judged unworthy of man, even though the intention is to protect or promote the welfare of an individual, of a family or of society in general. Consequently, it is a serious error to think that a whole married life of otherwise normal relations can justify sexual intercourse which is deliberately contraceptive and so intrinsically wrong.
https://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae.html
It's been settled.

>>25004140
Protestants will say 1 and 2 Maccabees are equally false; Catholics will say 1 and 2 Maccabees are equally true; I say 1 is better than 2 as a source because 2 has significant portions within that it claims to itself to be hearsay; the fact that it was written in Greek notwitstanding.

>>25004135
God wants us to eat His flesh and blood not just avoid sin. This is Bible 101.
>>25004127
>>coffee
>"Hot drinks" are enjoined against by the Word of Wisdom; so, when I drink coffee I blow on it to make sure that it is cool enough.
I was going to leave this alone but genuinely it's so funny I think I can't.

>>25004160
They don't call it the word of Wisdom for nothing, it's got a lot of intricacy baked in, and a lot of controversy to point out.

>>25004155
>because 2 has significant portions within that it claims to itself to be hearsay
>Hearsay
Better throw out the Gospel of Luke then!!! You just are using varying standards to varying situations to prop up the lie of Mormonism. It's trite, predictable, and while admittedly well done it is still definitively wrong.

>>25004163
>They don't call it the word of Wisdom for nothing
Funnily enough, they do.

>>25004167
I am not familiar with the common issues with the text concerning prayer for the dead that Protestants like to use as justification for excluding the Apocrypha altogether, so I can't say more on that. Other than that, I can't think of anything explicitly wrong with 2 Maccabees, only that I am not sure about issues of interpreting it.

>>25004174
>I am not familiar with the common issues with the text concerning prayer for the dead that Protestants like to use as justification for excluding the Apocrypha altogether, so I can't say more on that. Other than that, I can't think of anything explicitly wrong with 2 Maccabees, only that I am not sure about issues of interpreting it.
I haven't even read the book. Your opinion, nor mine, does not in the least bit matter. Here it is:
>two books of Machabees, the first and second.
https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/decree-concerning-the-canonical-scriptures-1494
Aaaaand now it's Scripture. There is no debate only varying degrees of being wrong about it.

>>25004171
It's a great text, what are you talking about? Look at it as a litmus test for judging how the Mormon church governs themselves, and how they change over the years their own doctrines in reinterpreting it. That's one of the points God is making by it. He gave us a "Word of Wisdom" and said it was not a commandment, and lo and behold the largest Mormon organization turns it into a justification for their own commandments.

The Book of Mormon itself is God's answer to Joseph Smith praying for Wisdom explicitly. So he gave us a book that confounds our worldly intellection and yet rewards us for reading it by increasing our wisdom and ability to understand the Bible and such.

>>25004178
That happened after Protestantism though so it was never ecumenical. All they did was hedge their own church authority on the authority of 2 Maccabees, which any human can do.

>>25004179
>It's a great text, what are you talking about?
It's not Scripture nor is it authoritative.
>Look at it as a litmus test for judging how the Mormon church governs themselves,
Look at how a broken institution follows its own brokenness? No thanks. When do blacks get to heaven and can be priests?
>and how they change over the years their own doctrines in reinterpreting it.
>change their own doctrines
You realize you just admitted the church isn't led by God, right?
>That's one of the points God is making by it.
Oh yeah He is!!!
>He gave us a "Word of Wisdom"
Nope.
>and said it was not a commandment, and lo and behold the largest Mormon organization turns it into a justification for their own commandments.
>the Qu'ran says to sex slaves and lo and behold they do! Isn't that nifty?
>The Book of Mormon itself is God's answer to Joseph Smith praying for Wisdom explicitly. So he gave us a book that confounds our worldly intellection
Perverts and insults*. Fides et Ratio by JPII applies
>and yet rewards us for reading it by increasing our wisdom and ability to understand the Bible and such.
There is something to be said for the ability of deeply studying texts in a communal environment generally that is an important skill but those texts can be total hogwash. See: The entire Book of Mormon.

>>25004182
>That happened after Protestantism though so it was never ecumenical.
>Protestants need to be there to be ecumenical
Protestants can be consulted if you want to read a deranged person pretend that God doesn't want us to eat Him but they are never authoritative. There are no Protestant canonized Saints nor are there bishops or priests, unless they sneak by.

>>25004195
>It's not Scripture nor is it authoritative.
It negates itself being used to bind the conscience, so it shouldn't be a point of contention whether a Christian believes it or not.
>Look at how a broken institution follows its own brokenness?
It's a great example of errors of man being contained in a way they can be observed without really doing harm. It's something to learn to observe even in your own denomination.
>When do blacks get to heaven and can be priests?
It helps if they work out their generational curses.
>You realize you just admitted the church isn't led by God, right?
No man is infallible in vain, only the Holy Ghost can ensure that.
>Oh yeah He is!!!
Look at 2 Maccabees as another litmus test. As far as I know it doesn't bind the conscience to itself, so, it shouldn't be a reason for contention either. And I don't contend against the Song of Songs either, only that it isn't required to believe it is inspired, which it is evidently not.
>Perverts
You don't get led astray in any way by the BoM
>insults
Git gud at reckoning with textual issues

>>25004214
>It negates itself being used to bind the conscience
The Book of Mormon does that itself as well on the title page>>24978552
>And now if there be fault, it be the mistake of men

>>25004179
>>25004182
Here is the corrective:
>This Gospel had been promised in former times through the prophets, and Christ Himself had fulfilled it and promulgated it with His lips. This commission was faithfully fulfilled by the Apostles who, by their oral preaching, by example, and by observances handed on what they had received from the lips of Christ, from living with Him, and from what He did, or what they had learned through the prompting of the Holy Spirit. The commission was fulfilled, too, by those Apostles and apostolic men who under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit committed the message of salvation to writing. (2)
>But in order to keep the Gospel forever whole and alive within the Church, the Apostles left bishops as their successors, "handing over" to them "the authority to teach in their own place."(3) This sacred tradition, therefore, and Sacred Scripture of both the Old and New Testaments are like a mirror in which the pilgrim Church on earth looks at God, from whom she has received everything, until she is brought finally to see Him as He is, face to face (see 1 John 3:2).
https://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651118_dei-verbum_en.html
To summarize, the human body is primary over paper and its written word, thus why Jesus does not write, as the instrument with which God sanctifies the world. In essence, this is to say that the body is over technology, even if that technology encodes Scripture. For example, would you rather save a baby or a Bible? The answer is clear, thus the Catholic Church was founded by God and Her head is Jesus Christ, the Master. May heaven bless you all, I am, God willing, going to eat the good shepherd.

>>25004195
Qur'an doesn't say anything that isn't also said by the Law of Moses

>>25004222
Men without the Spirit are just as bad as the written word of man without the Spirit, note how source text highlights the authority of the spiritual witness.

>>25004214
>>When do blacks get to heaven and can be priests?
>It helps if they work out their generational curses.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH BLACKS HAVE GENERATIONAL CURSES? OH THIS AMAZING. WOW. You live in Hell.
>Holy Ghost can ensure that.
The Catholic Church is ran by the Holy Ghost.
> As far as I know it doesn't bind the conscience to itself,
Council anathemas and clear ex cathedra bind the conscience. There is religious submission to extraordinary statements and ordinary bind intellect and will and are maybe kinda reformable.
>You don't get led astray in any way by the BoM
Are you Catholic? No! Congrats, you have been led astray!
>>25004220
>Faults of Man
If it doesn't bind then you don't need to listen to it. If it does bind then you are in error. Also, who wrote that title page? I don't think it was the polygamist Joseph Smith.

>>25004234
>who wrote that title page? I don't think it was the polygamist Joseph Smith
wym

>>25004234
10 commandments explains how generational curses work, its how God governs things

>>25004224
>Jesus says part is because of hardness of our hearts
>But like the Qu'ran is the same as Moses so good
Sick. Mohammed is the same ilk of vile.
>>25004228
This is meaningless slop and you know it. Would you kill a baby to save a Book of Mormon? You worship paper.

>>25004247
Freemasons have them. You would know.

>>25004254
I had a mason 4 generations ago and can say for sure that 4 generations has been a heck of a long time indeed. So glad I found God. Keen percept there.

>>25004258
https://www.thedivinemercy.org/sites/default/files/thedivinemercy.org_healing.pdf just in case you want to you use it. I experienced profound personally healing from this prayer.

>>25004266
So you see why I don't condemn Catholics; you can be saved and be a catholic. Catholics just don't know some things and are blind to some important issues.

>>25004266
>condemns Mormons with all masons
That doesn't line up; the Book of Mormon has a lot to say about secret combinations; anything that could be said against the masons has the agreement of the mormon scriptures

>>25004273
>you can be saved and be a catholic
And I can't say that will always be true, if the organization is given over to such evil as coerces all members to sin

>>24988989
>gf
Should be wife desu

>>25004252
Jesus doesn't negate the justice of the Law with his commentary

>>25004252
>the Qu'ran is the same as Moses so good
>Sick. Mohammed is the same ilk of vile.
This is why Jews have been sustained in spite of 2000 year curses, they are almost the only ones who don't negate falsely the Law (except when they do about as much as everyone else).

>>25004195
>There is something to be said for the ability of deeply studying texts in a communal environment generally that is an important skill
Gay

>>24969554
why is every single Christian on the planet using 4chan always in the goon threads?

>>24984808
what makes Joseph Smith a less legitimate prophet than Josh Christ?

>>25004273
>>25004282
>>25004289
Joseph Smith was a Freemason.
>>25004321
Superceded and elevated. Anyone that seeks to reimpose Mosaic law strictly speaking without submitting to the new laws of Jesus is morally regressive.
>>25004336
>This is why Jews have been sustained in spite of 2000 year curses
Jesus says those who call themselves the Jews are not but the Synagogue of Satan (Rev 3:9). Is Jesus wrong?
>>25004480
Ironically I'm totally sold on my communal exegesis skill being wortwhile in and of itself.
>>25004617
>what makes Joseph Smith a less legitimate prophet than Josh Christ?
Jesus is not a prophet but God. Joseph Smith is not a lesser prophet but not a prophet at all. Keep in mind part of the trick is that the word "prophet" is largely open to intrepetation and the bar is relatively flexible, low, and changeable. In the Old Testament there were multiple "prophets" (some of Ba'al and then we had Elijah) and even a "prophetic class," so this image of an isolated prophet without other prophets is silly. Are there any Catholic prophets? St. Pio had far more miraculous qualities than Joseph Smith and St. Thomas Aquinas was far more intellectually gifted than Smith. Moreover, St. Francis of Assissi founded more beautiful communities and movements than Muhammed or Smith ever did. Are they "prophets"? Muslims don't truly believe Muhammed is a prophet and just view him as someone that helped for a culture that oriented to God. Why? The term prophet in the Old Testament and the charism St. Paul talks about in the New are different. Prophets were role-based and had numerous whereas St. Paul means Christian charismatics and the saints. Again, who would be a better prophet, Mother Teresa or Joseph Smith? Everyone knows the answer but it's merely the word prophet is a hugely broad concept that can allow people to basically just think Smith has prayed to Jesus and said some true things. This is obviously true. Did God specifically and actively will Smith's founding of a church or Muhammed's? No. He permitted it, but that's it.

>>25005788
>Joseph Smith was a Freemason.
So were the founders

>>25005788
>Is Jesus wrong?
That's not what he said.
>Anyone that seeks to reimpose Mosaic law strictly speaking without submitting to the new laws of Jesus is morally regressive.
What "new laws"? The law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
>reimpose
Obeying the commandments is "regressive"? Now you see why God caused Islam to manifest; if organized Christians are going to ignore and abrogate the Bible commandments by their traditions of man, it's no wonder there should be a prophet outside of the Roman government's religion.

>>25005788

>Smith has prayed to Jesus and said some true things. This is obviously true. Did God specifically and actively will Smith's founding of a church?

The witness of Smith must be tested absolutely, on two terms: 1. All canonized LDS scripture must be literally true. 2. With that literal truth, all the claims it makes about the witness of the Holy Ghost must be also true. Really a third term is necessary as well: 3. The LDS scripture must justify itself as a thing that exists, being perfect and also completely revolutionary in usefulness.

It works for me.

>>24984808
>Joseph Smith was an antichrist
The Bible is very clear about what kind of person is an antichrist and Joseph Smith is nothing of the sort.

>>25005788
>Muslims don't truly believe Muhammed is a prophet
This is what Catholics actually believe

>>25005924
So were all of the democratic rebellions in Western Europe.
>>25005947
>What "new laws"? The law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
>If anyone says that Jesus Christ was given to men as a Redeemer to be trusted, and not also as a lawgiver to be obeyed, let him be anathema.
Repent, heretic.
>Bible commandments by their traditions of man
You are the tradition of man too, you realize that, right? How can the LDS's doctrines "change"? Can the truth change? You have already admitted that LDS is just some people hanging out. May the Blessed Ever-Virgin Mary free you from your lies.
>>25005974
>All canonized LDS scripture must be literally true.
The Resurrected Jesus was never in America. They didn't have steel when Smith recorded it.
>>25005987
>The Bible is very clear about what kind of person is an antichrist and Joseph Smith is nothing of the sort.
>Question: Wheter the baptism conferred by the community «The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints», called «Mormons» in the vernacular, is valid.
>Response: Negative.
https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20010605_battesimo_mormoni_en.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com
Your "baptism" isn't even real.
>>25006186
http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/stjohn_islam.aspx lol, been wrong for decades

>>25006253
If you don't believe the scriptures, that's nobody else's problem

>>25006253
The fact of God being no respecter of persons means all free agents are given over to be as wrong as they choose, so Mormons having their own problems is nothing new. In a lot of ways, problems of all churches can be addressed, if we learn to treat it as it manifests even in Mormonism.

I think what bothers me most about Mormonism is its view of freedom and divinity, which led to underlying tensions and doubts in me for years before I even consciously thought about leaving the church.
In mormon doctrine, God once was literally as man on another world, and man can literally become as God to make new worlds, in an eternal cycle. But these people will look you in the face and tell you that God having changed in time, or God's power being contingent on his obedience to a set of divine laws that existed before him, doesn't mean he isn't fully God. They'll say "look he can do anything he wants, that is, choose any action, and that's omnipotence" and even believe it. But it doesn't take a genius to realize that a conception of God which takes once action or another is limited, unable to take the action he did not take, and that a God whose power is merely to be the being most capable of acting on his will is a God who is defined by his limits, by what he is not. Robert M. Wallace has a good book about this. The whole thing opens mormon claims about divinity to not only philosophical attacks by real Christians but also attacks by atheists and agnostics, which they cannot refute without retreating into their favorite motte: "I received a special witness that this is true so your arguments don't matter," another concept I took to be true in my youth while unconsciously uncomfortable with its implications.

>>24998221
>have you considered that it's partially because of this website itself that people would desire to seek redemption?
No, I'm not retarded. It's plainly obvious to anyone that's read any theological text that this is a Godless place.
There are zero Christians on 4chan; schizo faggots like >>24998298 just spazz out because their commitment to the larp has broken their brains.

>>25006380
Sift the wheat from the chaff, a lot of that crap is nothing like what the LDS scriptures teach anyway.

>>25006450
>There are zero Christians on 4chan
we are all satanists here. excepting the few buddhists

>>25006450
so was sodom, yet God still got lot and his family out of there. trouble is, the rest of the world ain't much better these days. don't get me wrong this place is definitely terrible in current year and people who debate religion online constantly aren't even truly religious, but it's because everything is so awful that people are turning to christianity in the first place because it knows how bad the world and its people can be.

>>25006450
I've never understood this idea. There's nothing on 4chan thats that bad especially the blue boards. Thats like saying you can't be Christian if you go outside because you might find a homeless man sucking duck and eating shit. I'm annoyed by larpers and reactionaries too but to insist that there's No True Christian is going too far in the opposite direction. Just unreasonable.

>>25007000
>nothing on 4chan thats that bad
you've probably never been to /pol. they use the N word over there

>>25006510
Prove me wrong. You know you're being dishonest and attempting to wave away my criticisms by pretending that stuff like the Lorenzo Snow couplet or Book of Moses don't exist, or that I'm misinterpreting them somehow (even though there have been conference talks about this for generations). You KNOW that this is what mormonism holds as doctrine, but you're acting like it's not because you also know that I'm right.

>>25006380
Mormonism doesn’t teach of God’s omnipotence in the classical sense, which is a meaningless concept and of course self-refuting when one considers that He must be, if also omnibenevolent, responsible for evil. Most Mormons, like most people, are not intellectuals who have considered the meaning of “omnipotence”, which is a figure of speech. “All-powerful” more clearly connotes just “very powerful” or “the most powerful”, which is what they mean when they regard God as an unfathomably superior nature to themselves.

>>25007000
“Know yourself” is apt advice here. The relentless negativity can be numbing and damaging. But it’s kind of like in the ghettos of America, there has been more cultural vibrancy than almost anywhere else. I do think everyone should try to move on from thus place

>>25007769
The meaning of law in this is respect is not well defined. It certainly is not anything external to God, any commandment in the sense of “keeping the sabbath day holy”, because almost all commandments are dependent on the context in which they occur. You would probably say its the law of love itself. Love isn’t a limitation but to act and live in love this means foregoing many possible actions. If God didn’t act out of love he wouldn’t be God, but how could God be anything than God? Anything that exists is also limited by its positive aspects. And indeed anything positive can be defined in negative terms. Mormonism solves the issues with classical theism, which in the modern world it seems to me led the greatest minds to abandon it, while still remaining authentically Christian.

>>25007769
>Book of Moses
Actually that's selections from Genesis, technically it doesn't

>>25007769
>Lorenzo Snow couplet
not canon

>>25007000
>Thats like saying you can't be Christian if you go outside
It's not like saying that at all, actually. You have to explicitly choose to come to this website. You have to already be Fallen to want to come here.
No Christian would ever set foot (metaphorically) in this place, and no Christian ever has. It's a necessary condition of typing the URL into your browser.
>There's nothing on 4chan thats that bad
see >>24994983

>>25008777
If you are not a Christian how can you say who is

>>25008777
Sorry but I just don't get what you're saying. You don't seem willing to be reasonable. Just pushing an agenda. There's really nothing on this website that's that bad. I think you're working from an extremely dated idea of everything really. Just a bizarre attempt at guilt by association

>>25006377
>problems of all churches can be addressed
Heretical sects have a fundamental brokenness to them much like fornication.
>>25006450
>anyone that's read any theological text that this is a Godless place.
What have you read? The only sin I've committed in this thread was speaking ill of the dead, which I confessed.
>just spazz out because their commitment to the larp has broken their brains.
Look through any of the acidic prose from St. Augustine, Hilary of Potier, or Jerome for that matter. I promise you that the desert fathers would call me weak willed for my prose.
>>25007855
>context they occur
Now, say it with me, "LDS 'church' is an erroneous and demonic context for the reading of the Bible that makes other Christians look bad by being so pathetically antithetical to reason and the real Christian tradition of the Catholic Church."
>>25007834
>which is a meaningless concept and of course self-refuting when one considers that He must be, if also omnibenevolent, responsible for evil.
>“All-powerful” more clearly connotes just “very powerful” or “the most powerful”, which is what they mean when they regard God as an unfathomably superior nature to themselves.
You didn't "solve" the problem of evil by worshipping a created thing. You just confirmed that Mormonism is idol worship.

>>25006380
Praise God for your freedom from that wretched institution. May St. Pio watch over doggedly and St. Augustine bless you.
>>25008777
>No Christian would ever set foot (metaphorically) in this place, and no Christian ever has.
You do not own the definition of "Christian" nor have you proven that you can even use it properly ("A Christian is someone who doesn't go on the interwebs or use the leet haxor known as four channel!!!"). Christ gives a definition of Christian and so does St. Paul: Jesus Christ is Lord. Per Scripture, I just proved I am Christian and have the Holy Spirit. Wow!

>>25006253
>The Resurrected Jesus was never in America. They didn't have steel when Smith recorded it.
see
>>24968799

>>25009285
No one in touch with reality could view things in the terms you set out. You are obviously delusional and inspired by a malicious spirit. The only question is how you came to be this way.
> You didn't "solve" the problem of evil by worshipping a created thing. You just confirmed that Mormonism is idol worship.
The view of Mormonism is precisely that all beings are uncreated, as the Vedanta teaches. Under your paradigm loving a fellow being is “idol worship”, which is totally absurd.

>>25006253
>Your "baptism" isn't even real.
What is the point of a water baptism without spiritual immersion? THAT is what is not real, not adult baptism.

>>25004154
Most of human history had a high infant mortality; it is completely reasonable for contraceptives to be implemented to avoid poverty

File: Muh_Vatican.png (32 KB, 800x789)

32 KB PNG

>>25004154
>>25004178
>>25004222
>>25006253

Should I be mormon? I like Joshua Graham. He's cool. Idk anything about religion. My parents smoke weed and we've never been to any church

>>25009514
read this and see if you like it
>>24968729

>>25009514
Yes, you just have to pray and listen to spiritual impressions

>>25009436
>The view of Mormonism is precisely that all beings are uncreated, as the Vedanta teaches.
Joseph Smith was created and so was I so were you. This is not Christian nor is it true.
>creation doesn't exist
lol
>malicious spirit
Oh, right. You just want to have people spend their life on a lie and I'm "overreacting." You also encourage sinning below.
>>25009445
>the pope has no authority over me
Thanks, devil slave. Have another lie as a reward. Bring another to spiritual ruin with your 18 year old disciples.
>>25009465
>I sin so it's okay
>>25009514
Mormons are slaves of the devil at worst (like related) and accidental servants of Jesus at best.

I would burn every Bible in the world to save a single Mormon baby. I would burn every Book of Mormon in the world and be revered by the Master Jesus Christ and His most blessed Saints.

>>25009968
Why did God create evil beings? Unless you believe character a purely random quality produced by the freedom which also comes of God.

>>25009968
>Oh, right. You just want to have people spend their life on a lie and I'm "overreacting." You also encourage sinning below.
I wasn't the one supporting contraceptive use, which I don't. You are presenting a very sinister character. At best you are merely stupid, but I suspect you are either evil or are engaged in a stupid troll.

To The Accuser Who is The God of This World

Truly My Satan thou art but a Dunce
And dost not know the Garment from the Man
Every Harlot was a Virgin once
Nor canst thou ever change Kate into Nan

Tho thou art Worship'd by the Names Divine
Of Jesus & Jehovah thou art still
The Son of Morn in weary Nights decline
The lost Travellers Dream under the Hill

>>25009968
Pure cult member psychology

>>25009989
Gnosticism is legitimately satanic

>>25009968
Were you born in or are you a Catholic convert?

>>25010016
Regardless of our agreement or disagreement with him on his several positions, the poem would seem to apply here because the God which you worship, and consider to be Jesus and Jehovah, is most likely to be Satan. In your opinion, is William Blake burning in hell as we speak?

>>25010038
Satan is not "the god of the/this world". That is a gnostic strain, and a misread of Paul. The "god of this world" is not the same as the "prince of the power of the air".
>the God which you worship, and consider to be Jesus and Jehovah, is most likely to be Satan
No u

>>25009968
>devil slave
That's what they called Jesus for teaching the organized religion of the day had waxed old.

>>25009968
The consistent disingenuousness trad larpers lean into is remarkably like the leftism they so want to differentiate themselves from. What a bunch of fags.

File: E7Qx3CXVEAAg1j-.jpg (81 KB, 1200x518)

81 KB JPG

>>25010137
"Gnostic" is meaningless word, especially when wielded by moronic and autistic internet traditionalists. What Blake believed, and he does have obvious affinities with Mormonism, has nothing to do with the ancient sect of Gnostics.
>Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

>>25009975
>Why did God create evil beings?
Nothing is made evil, free will.
>>25009980
>support contraceptive use.
I apologize! I hope you don't support it!
>You are presenting a very sinister character.
Let me pull up and have some tea and relax. Now, tell me all about how you're corrupting the most important aspect of your fellow man's life so Joseph Smith could have 60 plus wives. I'm just happy as a clam. Also, of course I'm a disgusting and evil man. That's obvious.
>>25010010
>>25010024
Cope incoming.
>>25010149
Where?
>>25010156
>The consistent disingenuousness trad larpers lean into is remarkably like the leftism they so want to differentiate themselves from.
? What do you mean? Leftism isn't that poisonous aside from transgenderism, gay "marriage," and abortion. They're far better on race and migration.

File: SEC Release No. 96951.png (96 KB, 966x547)

96 KB PNG

>>25009514
No, mormonism is basically a very boring knockoff of Freemasonry, and its main purpose is to funnel tithing money from lay members to the mormon church's slush fund (which they don't even do anything nefarious or cool with, it just sits there). See pic related for details on that.
Plus it's now dying for good.

>>25010292
Tithing is fine. Mormons are mostly decent people, but by encouraging others to be Mormon, if they truly feel and know that Jesus is the Son of God, is greviously sinful and needs to stop.

>>25010292
>its main purpose is to funnel tithing money
I think its because leadership is too conservative and attached to the tradition of tithing. The Church never had much money, was always at risk of bankruptcy until recently when they began financial investments exactly at the time when the US economy financialized with so-called neoliberalism. So, like the wealth of the US economy this wealth is largely artificial. However to me it doesn't make sense to have members be encouraged to pay tithing still when there is no real need for it. At the very least it is embarrassing to have so much money. However, I assure that
> its main purpose is to funnel tithing money from lay members to the mormon church's slush fund (which they don't even do anything nefarious or cool with, it just sits there)
is an incorrect description.

>>25010341
>Church
church*. Can Mormons pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary?

>>25010341
I'm not particularly inclined to view the leaders of mormonism very charitably, considering they conspired to hide income and lied to lay members' faces for decades and only stopped when legally forced to. If they believe in anything it's in money and in the performative form of faith best suited to parting lay members from their money.
>>25010363
No, mormons think praying to saints is idolatry or whatever and generally place a low value on women, including the Virgin, seeing them as ultimately subservient to men, not capable of reaching the same level of exaltation as men, and basically only good for making kids. They think Mary was a nice woman who gave birth to Jesus and that's basically all they think about her.

>>25010363
>>25010363
Yes, though they are not taught to do so (as they are also not taught to pray to Jesus, but to God the Father, according to the model provided by Jesus in scripture).
> and generally place a low value on women, including the Virgin, seeing them as ultimately subservient to men, not capable of reaching the same level of exaltation as men, and basically only good for making kids.
This isn't true. Its impossible to find some census on "Mormon attitudes on women", and these will be what they are, but the idea that women are subservient to men is not part of the doctrine. They have a much higher view of women than traditionalism essentially because they believe Eve is not responsible for bringing evil into the world but, mother of all living, is made the heroic decision to bring humanity into mortal existence. In Catholic teaching Mary in considered as a Second Eve who reverses Eve's shame and is the mother of the new Adam, Christ.
> They think Mary was a nice woman who gave birth to Jesus and that's basically all they think about her.
This is true that they follow Protestantism in this sense. It would be odd for them embrace a Catholic devotion to Eve, since this originated as a grass roots popular movement which was only accepted by the institutional Church until later. In Mormonism there is female divinity but this is not often discussed with any detail, and probably for good reason because people's perceptions of femininity are so distorted nowadays, that such an exercise would likely lead to confusion and disrespect.

>>25010441
>If they believe in anything it's in money and in the performative form of faith best suited to parting lay members from their money.
Doesn't seem to me that they are preforming Mormonism just to increase the size of a fund that they don't even use. These are very strange motivations which I have hard time imagining. All that money is embarrassing.

>>25010473
Are Mormons well-versed on the Old Testament? Or do they basically ignore it?

>>25010577
The Church cycles every four years reading Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants. Early Mormonism had a very Old Testament flavour. Harold Bloom believed Joseph Smith recovered the authentic Jewish religion. Modern mormonism emphasizes the Book of Mormon more than in the 19th century

In my opinion modern Mormonism is a bourgeois misunderstanding of the original revelation, but this is inevitable and maybe forgiven since the original revelation is revolutionary in a way that is beyond description.

>>25010441
>seeing them as ultimately subservient to men, not capable of reaching the same level of exaltation as men,
First part is true sociologically but the second part is repulsive and I'm assuming a slight misreading.
>>25010473
>Eve is not responsible for bringing evil into the world but, mother of all living
This is just at odds with 1,800 years of Catholic, Christian, and even Jewish thought. Look into Perfection and Creation by Gary Anderson if you want an extended discourse on this. TL;DR, there is textual evidence they heard the command to not eat at the same time and thus Eve's liability is near total.
>there is female divinity
God has no gender and there is one divinity.
>>25010591
>original revelation is revolutionary in a way that is beyond description.
>>25010586
You guys realize you can sadistically enjoy corrupting people's faiths and then exploiting them from that? This animates the LDS church's spirit. Are people made Mormon by God or man? What is the grace of conversion? Of course, people can truly know of some of Jesus's teachings in Mormonism but the erroneous Jesus you display and replicate is a sadistic mirage. Imagine I wanted to be a sex-obsessed "prophet," how would I do that? I want to corrupt as many of the "good boys and girls" as possible and also I want to get my sex. What do I do? I acknowledge as much Jesus as possible so the "good boys and girls" think that I'm on their side and then I distort Him enough to get my sex. Muhammed and Smith did exactly this. Any "prophet" that is polygamist will get purgatory at best. Fwiw, I offered, if I received it and he is indeed in purgatory, a plenary indulgence to the depart soul of Mr. Smith. May he intercede for you in the destruction of his own error if it worked.

>>25010995
The evidence indicates that Smith didn’t consummate any of the plural marriages he conducted, not that that matters. Is Israel is purgatory?

>>25010995
>This is just at odds with 1,800 years of Catholic, Christian, and even Jewish thought.
That’s why its a new religion

>>25010995
>Muhammed and Smith
They were both true, that is the point of distinction. You believe Muhammad was false, which goes against the trend of history, where
1. Muhammad never contradicted the Old Testament
2. Muhammad never contradicted Jesus
3. Muhammad never really denied any of the teachings of the New Testament, only worded them in Arabic
If Islam had been false, why would God have seen it to increase on the world stage so rapidly, and replace Zoroastrianism, non-Chalcedonian Christianity, and many splinters of Judaism? Where in the actual scriptures (not the word of man from some organization) is there a command not to marry multiple women? Whenever man wants to organize independently of God, God is free and capable to put the true teachings somewhere else than where they are oppressed.

>>25010995
>at odds with 1,800 years of Catholic, Christian, and even Jewish thought
source?
Also, it's not at odds with 1800 years of Catholic, Christian, and Jewish scripture, only perhaps some word-of-man elaborations that aren't binding or of God.

>>25010261
>you're corrupting the most important aspect of your fellow man's life
>>25010995
>You guys realize you can sadistically enjoy corrupting people's faiths and then exploiting them from that?
>the erroneous Jesus you display and replicate is a sadistic mirage
>distort Him enough to get my sex
You're seeing phantom errors in Mormon doctrine so you can keep justifying your own opinion of what you think is wrong about having multiple wives. Could you elaborate more on the doctrinal issues and less on the hearsay? It's more than clear you think of scriptures as a secondary authority, second not to inspiration but to organization; that key issue is where we differ and what makes you to rise to contend against what you aren't willing to even engage with.
>>25010577
>Are Mormons well-versed on the Old Testament? Or do they basically ignore it?
This is a very interesting point of doctrine; I think I can say, of all the Christian sects, Mormons are the most commandment-oriented of them all, though that is not to say they are ideal in that regard. I can't think of any other Christian sect where the OT is taken as literally true as it represents itself; for instance the Doctrine and Covenants foretells of a day when the sons of Levi will reinstitute the sacrifices of old.

>>25011168
Christians should read Carlyle on Mohommed—at the very least something similar must be said of Smith. If he is not a genuine prophet, he is at least an inspired great man who created a people (though I am disappointed with their trajectory circa 2026)
There’s precedent of polygamy in Catholicism (post-war Paraguy) as well as an example with Luther giving approval. Recently was surprised to read Thomas Browne express support for polygamy.

>>25011206
If you throw out the hadith which is traditions of man, and are able to understand the Old and New testaments together perfectly, the Koran is a perfect third, but only in perfect Arabic and perfect translation which doesn't exist; there being only translations lensed by hadith.

>>25010995
>>original revelation is revolutionary in a way that is beyond description.
What is your point against the original revelation?

>>25011228
Not against, I mean Mormonism is misunderstood by Mormons. Inevitably—everything great is misunderstood.

>>25011232
Thoughts on >>24968799
?

>>25004088
>Jesus didn't just abandon us for 1,800 years
Whoever upheld the moral perfection in perfect obedience had Jesus, whoever pretended to follow Jesus for the sake of some organization, was not abandoned, but did abandon. If you feel abandoned because someone else has revelations, maybe you should try to follow what you have better, and maybe you'll find the others have been better than you, and that you should follow what is newly revealed.

>>25004090
Augustine committed fornication many times, Joseph Smith never.
>>25011237
Have never heard of this

>>25011206
Thomas Jefferson was pro-polygamy in his letters to Adams.

>>25011269
Posits the theory that Beta Israel (which still exists; migrant Jewish society in Ethiopia) was a result of the Lehite migration depicted in the Book of Mormon.

>>25011160
>Joseph Smith built a theology that granted him exclusive sexual and marital access, required secrecy, and placed enormous pressure on followers—especially young women and married women—to comply “by revelation.”
-CGPT
>>25011163
Devil worship and heresy is ancient.
>>25011168
>They were both true,
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH--wow absolutely haram.
>>25011176
Uhhhh
>whatever Mormons say is of man is of man

>>25011201
>what you think is wrong about having multiple wives.
What Jesus teaches is wrong about mulyiple wives*

>>25011279
He was probably talking about his slave women tho

>>25011201
What is the Mormon position on the Kenite hypothesis?

>>25012161
Whatever God doesn't say is word of man

>>25012161
t. has never read the Qur'an, Book of Mormon, or Bible [for himself]

>>25012371
>Whatever God doesn't say is word of man
God didn't say this, heretic.
>>25012389
>Qur'an
I read half and then had to put it down. I questioned too seriously if Muslims had souls after reading those parts. It's literally Muhammed just saying that the God of the Jews is terrific and then adding some random commandments that, like Smith, add nothing new range from rationally embarrassing to morally perverse.
>Book of Mormon
Nope. No interest. The Mormon posters in this thread solidified it, as somehow the word of "Mormon" and M*roni (demon) is simply just somehow both at once able to be dismissed if there is error and yet totally literally true. This is obvious in contradiction.
>>25012389
>Bible [for himself]
You read the Bible for God and for your relationship with the Master Jesus Christ not just to "think for yourself, bro." Thinking for yourself is basically just random idiots saying, "Cut yourself off from authority, tradition, and community and let me trick you. Isn't that better?" It's pathetic.
>>25011201
>your own opinion of what you think is wrong about having multiple wives.
>If anyone says that it is lawful for Christians to have several wives at the same time, and that this is not prohibited by any divine law: let him be anathema.
Repent, heretic.
>I don't recognize the Catholic Church having authority over my soul
Amazing! The devil can do A LOT with that. Enjoy!!!

>Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshiped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved
Pope Gregory I
>There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.
Fourth Lateran Council
>The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the 'eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels' (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her;
Council of Florence
>Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_Ecclesiam_nulla_salus
>Will all Mormons go to Hell?
No. But there is no "Mormon heaven," there is only a Catholic one.

>>25012565
Well enough that you heard the warning, that unworthy people are to be sealed in their unbelief. I would warn you that the Qur'an is sealed behind a veil which determines that most translations are poor, like most Bible translations, so if you really want to be sure you have read the text, get the one done by Rodwell (a Christian). If your only 'problem' with it is that it repeats the Bible, well, the Bible gives us 4 gospels, but in each telling there are different highlights and new details, which is another virtue of the Qur'an. I actually recommend reading it first in increasing order of section length, so you can follow the individual points before seeing them strung together in the making of deeper statements in the longer sections.

>>25012565
>>25012601
Also if you are reading one that is of poor literary quality, like the Jehovah's Witness or Catholic versions, you aren't getting the real draw of the Bible, and I can understand why you think of it as a secondary text to whatever church documents you believe.

>>25010577
>>25012574
The Book of Mormon is only really for those who take the scriptures seriously already, in stead of letting it be interpreted away.

>>25012601
>I would warn you that the Qur'an is sealed behind a veil which determines that most translations are poor, like most Bible translations, so if you really want to be sure you have read the text, get the one done by Rodwell (a Christian).
Having the Holy Spirit dwell within me and reading this is beyond painful for absolutely how pathetically self-contradicted it is.
>You would like the Qu'ran if you read a translation
>The Qu'ran's goodness (a book???) hides itself from "bad boys"
>Read this Christian's translation
Cleary he didn't translate it well if he's still a Christian, now did he? How could it be a "good translation" if the "good translation" didn't convert him? Do you hear yourself?
>virtue of the Qur'an
The Qu'ran's main virtue is flammability.
>I actually recommend reading it first in increasing order of section length, so you can follow the individual points before seeing them strung together in the making of deeper statements in the longer sections.
Adorable! Maybe you can make a little calendar for me! Baby's First Lies, d'aww!!!! How many Book of Mormons would you burn to save a baby?

>>25012624
Even if he gets some non-essential doctrines wrong to contradict the Bible like all false muslim tradition does, the edition itself is very fine regardless. Why do you think it is lies? Do you say God would lie to 2 billion people for 1400 years? Maybe that is why you don't trust God and the Bible, and think you need a mediator between you and Jesus.

>>25012605
>Catholic versions
The Bible didn't just fall from the sky. It is a communal document that was assembled, edited, and refined over time into a final, canonical version. There is only the Catholic version. The "other versions" are just perversions.
>>25012617
>scriptures seriously already
>scriptures
Now this is great! The Book of Mormon is not "scripture."

>>25012565
>let me trick you
like indulgences?

>>25012628
>Why do you think it is lies? Do you say God would lie to 2 billion people for 1400 years?
No. The devil lies to them. Islam is a Christian heresy and, like Protestantism, heresies can last as long as people's pride does, which is a long time.
>Maybe that is why you don't trust God and the Bible, and think you need a mediator between you and Jesus.
I literally eat Jesus.

>>25012639
>like indulgences?
Here's the current manual: https://catholicallyear.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Indulgences_v2.pdf. Does giving to charity pay off sinfulness? You believe in the essence of indulgences.

>>25012646
>it's charity to exploit the laity to fund extravagant buildings and art
Oh that's what "charity" means. Everybody's been using it wrong I guess

>>25012631
>edited
Ok so you admit your scriptures are tampered with. Yeah

>>25012631
>It is a communal document
False. It is a divinely preserved document.

>>25012646
The essence of indulgences is what caused the Protestant reformation.

>>25012624
What is a single lie you can pin the Qur'an on?

>>25012648
Look up if the Catholic Church ever required monetary indulgences to receive absolution. The answer is no. Purgatory is real. Corporal works of mercy lessen purgatory. Quantifying that is likely ridiculous but also that is a matter of prudence and not divinely revealed. Donating to a your "church" is a charitable work, right? That's no different from building a Cathedral, other than it being God's real Church of course.

>>25012664
Muhammed isn't a prophet. That was quick! Jesus died.
>>25012654
>your scriptures are tampered with. Yeah
>>25012657
>It is a divinely preserved document.
Divinely preserved but even Jesus's answers are slightly different in different Gospels and so are the anecdotes (Centurion in Matthew and Luke, marriage in Matthew and Luke, conversations with Pilates across all four). Scripture is spiritually infallible, there are also alternative manuscripts throughout time that are different. At the manuscript level, everyone knows this. All Protestant texts are sourced from Catholic manuscripts, no exceptions.
>>25012660
Yes and no. Indulgences can be abused but also giving money to the homeless to become more holy is just true. That's not really an indulgence but if you have temporal debt from sin it then is (saying a prayer is a partial indulgence).

Good news for Mormons, by the way, if you finally decide to embrace the fullness of Jesus Christ and eat Him in the Blessed Eucharist, you will be Baptized and all of your sins will be remitted including your temporal faults! Pretty great!

>>25012673
>Indulgences can be abused
One of the 10 catholic commandments right next to
>children can be abused
>scripture can be abused
>priests must be celibate
They had to cross off one about abusing people for not speaking latin because PROTESTANTISM WON.

>>25012678
You guys should create a hyper Catholicism within Catholicism to be 2X as sure you go to pedo heaven [[hell]]

>>25012673
>there are also alternative manuscripts throughout time that are different.
>>25012657
To be clear, the differences are nominal and at most a few words (maybe even a sentence here and there), but occasional word variants are widespread. The idea of a version of Scripture that is iron-clad and a perfect manuscript at the word-level throughout the entire Bible does not exist. There MIGHT be some books of the Bible (shorter epistles?) that are very, very close to the original transcription but overall it is the tradition that preserves, prays with, and translates them that is the primary authority and interpreter of Scripture. The Bible without the Catholic Church is a map without a country.

>>25012685
Joseph Smith version 110% correct

>>25012685
Confession to man alone and without the holy ghost is how JW's and Catholics managed to replicate each other's pedo problems.

>>25012680
We project our wounds onto the Catholic Church. For example, I was given nearly zero explicit guidance by my father and thus felt unloved by that and thus I rail against the Church for not being clear and authoritative as it once was.
>priests must be celibate
Eastern Catholic Rite can marry and then become priests.
>PROTESTANTISM WON
Protestantism literally means protesting.
>>25012682
See above.

>>25012693
The church has lots of problems and can only be half-trusted at best. Just like any other.

>>25012686
lol'd
>>25012691
>Confession to man alone
Confession is to God with priest as mediator. It genuinely helps you know what sins you commit but God's mercy isn't limited to the Sacrament of Confession.

>>25012697
>can only be half-trusted at best. Just like any other.
You just Her divine institution, protection, and fidelity. Statistically, when the French Revolt wanted prelates to sign over that the government was more authoritative than the Pope, 10% of bishops signed and 50% of priests. The Church isn't for Saints but is a hospital for sinners (like me).

>>25012699
The extra 10% is for the stuff he was revealed about Enoch etc.

>>25012710
Oh, I'm sure he was super duper revealed about Enoch. Tell me about the moon people next!

>>25012697
>>25012701
With your permission, I will ask the Blessed Virgin Mary to extend her mantle over you. You don't need to post here if you don't want to but I will ask her for you.

>>25012729
You ever notice how the only heresy allowed in the Catholic church is the stuff that doesn't challenge the organization? If anything challenges man's authority however even if biblical it isn't allowed.

>>25012778
You can compare the Didache and the Catechism; the Catholic Church is a faithful bride to Her beloved Jesus and She does not change Her mind.
>challenge authority
If authority is powen then it's good. Keep in mind authority is only "bad" when it's abused to command sin or when it's neglected to allow too much vice. Authority in and of itself is from God. For example, a tyrant doesn't invalidate government like how a bad father doesn't invalidate marriage or families. In a similar way, bad priests and bishops and popes do not invalidate the Church.

>>25012804
How bout the Trent catechism and the Vatican II catechism? Oh wait that's "Old Light" like Jehobah's Witnesses

File: bom-virgin-wall.jpg (283 KB, 800x1196)

283 KB JPG

>>25012729
>>24968777
>>24982847

we're getting close