>>24965693
It mostly is. Even the "crazy" parts aren't any worse than what's already in the bible, but people who were raised Christian can't see that.

>>24965730
>>24965693
It's not real

>>24965730
The issue is the people running the world do believe it and want us all to die because of it.

>>24965765
Any evidence of this whatsoever?

>racism :)
>racism jews >:(

>>24965785
Just goes to show how hard Jews won and how it makes everyone seethe. No other people's religious works get this much attention.

>>24965799
They're about to lose everything, including the State of Israel. All they had to do for the last 80 years was not prove every single antisemitic stereotype true, then they could have kept up ZOG indefinitely. But, well, Jews gonna Jew.

>>24965775
Yeah.

>>24965799
Jews outside of Israel have lost because of Israel
they are unironically right to be worried about rising antisemitism, it's completely entrenched in zoomers across the political spectrum now

>>24965693
It's jews unironically pilpuling themselves. It's similar to Hermes and Asclepius if they took too much adderall.

>>24965693
The Talmud is great because whining about it automatically marks the whiner as a moron.

The only Jews who care about the Talmud are the isolationist Jews who separate themselves from society and spend all day studying and praying. The Jews who are high in society-- the ones managing media corporations and lobbying politicians-- are secular Jews who have absolutely nothing to do with the Talmud.

>>24965693
Yeah, it’s a bunch of debates about the Torah, but they do have some very shitty and exploitive things to say about non-Jews. Jeffrey Epstein even had copies of the books on his island/office or whatever.

>>24965880
>The only Jews who care about the Talmud are the isolationist Jews
who have significant influence in Israel who have significant influence on Western Zionists

>>24965880
That's not true. They like putting the Babylonian edition on their coffee tables.

>>24965885
Their political capital in Israel is spent on getting NEETbux for themselves.

>>24965888
and they can only do that because they're influential

>>24965861
>it's completely entrenched in zoomers across the political spectrum now
You exaggerate.

>>24965890
Having limited influence is not the same as having unlimited influence. There are limits to how much they can accomplish, and priority #1 is always giving themselves more money to be NEETs, not dictating foreign policy.

>>24965892
except it really is
sure your average white leftist zoomer is still doing the "anti-Zionism isn't anti-Semitism" shtick but their Muslim allies that they rely on for their future voting base certainly don't feel the same

>>24965894
where exactly do you think Israel's gibs money comes from

>>24965880
Secular jews still have a bone to pick with “whiteness” and mostly vote as democrat as well. It doesn’t matter what the framework is, they hate gentiles regardless because they are historically cultural terrorists — one just hate you religiously and the other just hates you in a woke manner.

>>24965899
Money spent on religious Jews comes from Israel itself.

The money sent to Israel from the US is then returned to the US as part of Israel's agreement to spend that money on the US military-industrial complex.

>>24965906
turns out you have more gibs money when your military is paid for forever

>>24965914
I agree, but it isn't that relevant here.

The goal of every politician is to enrich themselves. The process behind that is pretty simple:

The US citizens give their tax money to the US government - > the US government gives that money to the Israeli government - > The Israeli government gives that money to US corporations - > US corporations give that money to US lobbyists - > US lobbyists give that money to US politicians.

We're discussing a book, aren't we? This is /lit/, isn't it? In this scenario, people who read the book The Talmud are the middlemen in the scheme, not the authors.

>>24965861
>completely entrenched in zoomers across the political spectrum now
Still, there is nothing they can do about it. Whites will seethe until the end of time, but they have already lost.

>>24965927
the point is that it isn't just whites

>>24965693
Look at how the talmud describes nonjews

Now look at how the state of Israel treats the Palestinians, which were before 2023 a group isolated from western audiences (upon whose perception Israel’s survival depends)

Is that 'coincidentally' in line with how the talmud views nonjews?

We don’t need to assume coincidence, though, as there’s ample accounts of ngo’s and whistleblowers who say exactly the opposite. Israel has had no trouble finding a steady supply of rabbis willing to inform IDF troops that it's okay (and even divinely ordained) to shoot Palestinian children through the skull and commit total annihilation.
Revered jewish leaders like Maimonides also were contemptful and hateful towards nonjews.

The jewish question is now irrevocably entangled with the 'state' of Israel. Every time Western golems acted according to their programming and pointed out Israel's violations of the lessons diaspora jews imparted on them, jews doubled down and maintained they were exempt from these rules.

The gig is up. Even leftists, whose main recipient of identity politics nonsense were prominently whites, are calling out non-Israeli jews for their conscious adherence to jewish privilege and supremacist beliefs. Tankie, muslim, white nationalist, doesn't matter. They can all agree on one thing (and it's beautiful).

It lets schizo anti-semites use it as an excuse for their insane claim about why judaism is somehow a hivemind where they all follow some kind of vague evil rules written down in the book

>>24965965
>the central religious text of a culture does NOT in any way inform how they view the world

>>24965967
>the central religious text
Are you in the wrong thread? This thread is about the Talmud, not the Torah.

>>24965968
Anon did you take your sleeping pills? Try to refute my post before you doze off.

>>24965972
The Torah is the central religious text of Judaism, not the Talmud. The Talmud is not the Torah. Anon, do you even know anything at all about the Jews?

>>24965965
>Jewish people act in accordance with their religious text
>pointing this out is somehow "schizo"

>>24965974
Are you implying the talmud is not central to judaism? Do you have a compulsive need to nitpick etymologically or are you simply using it as a weak excuse to not have to engage with my post?

Now we can have an argument about which text is slightly more central to judaism or we can discuss the contexts of the talmud. I can tell by your behaviour which one you're 'uninterested' in discussing.

If you’re simply trying to avoid engaging with my posts then I’m happy to accept your concession, of course.

>>24965988
You called it "the" central religious text. Please, enlighten me. Enlighten everyone. Back up your claim. How is it more central than the Torah?

>>24965765
The people that take the Talmud truly seriously are Haredi and they're basically the Jewish equivalent to Amish. "Modern Orthodox" Judaism has the most influence of any Jewish sect in world politics, specifically because the movement was about bending the rules of Orthodox Judaism in order to blend in and get support from Evangelicals, but most Jews in positions of power just follow "cultural Judaism", they don't care about staying kosher or keeping the Sabbath or any of that. George Soros even said that Jews cause antisemitism by being so clannish and seeing themselves as special

If the Talmud was the central text of Judaism then jews would follow the plethora of autistic rules therein besides raping children.
Wait nvm it’s not like Christian’s believe in any of the autisms of the NT like not giving charity to widows below 40.

Who the fuck knows. I just find it outlandish that any jew layman would ever actually read the Talmud.

>>24965994
Talmud study isn't exclusive to the ultra orthodox and you know it.

>>24965997
Talmud study outside of the Orthodox is academic study.

>>24965990
The choice is yours: we can discuss how talmud informs the jewish worldview,
or you can keep circling semantic trivia.

Now please, this is getting ugly. Either engage with >>24965967 or go.

>>24966000
secular jews appeal to the talmud too when shooting Palestinian children

>>24966004
Yes, we can discuss the claim you made. You claimed it is THE central religious text. Can you back up your own claim or not?

>>24965995
>if I claim no one reads it it doesn't matter

>>24966008
You could appeal to the Old Testament for that. In fact, the singular accusation that Jews worship the Talmud is based on the fact that they’re racial supremacists, which doesn’t need Talmud justification.

>>24966009
We can debate which text is ‘most central,’ in which I'm sure you'll find ample relief knowing you won't have to engage with my point. The broader claim is that central religious texts shape how their people see the world. That’s what I’m asking you to engage with. (and crickets still)

>>24966018
>We can debate which text is ‘most central,’
Then let's do it. What's taking you so long? Can you or can you not back up a claim that you made?

>NO ONE reads these days.
>Ah, but Jews? They read.
>No that doesn't make them superior... It's just a post-foundational corpus collecting centuries of debate on Jewish law, ethics, philosophy, and history.
Interesting...

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>>24966021
I'm not leaving, anon. You're free to throw around more rhetorical confetti in lieu of an argument (explaining why the talmud wouldn't inform the jewish worldview).
Please display your jewishness more openly though as you're doing exactly what I need you to do.

For the anons lurking, picrel has enjoyed the largest funeral in Israeli history in 2013. 800 000 people attended, which was between 15 to 20% of Israel's adult jewish population at the time.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/jerusalem-closes-down-for-rabbi-ovadia-yosefs-funeral/

>>24966036
I want to know if you, as a person, are willing to back up claims that you make, or if you do not stand behind your own words.

Will you back up your own claim that the Talmud is "the" central religious text of Judaism?

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>>24966040
Rabbi Schneerson was the single most influential Jewish religious leader of the 20th century, known for scholarship, charisma, and global reach, even among non-Jews. (how charismatic he was)

>The difference between a Jewish and a non-Jewish person stems from the common expression: "Let us differentiate." Thus, we do not have a case of profound change in which a person is merely on a superior level.

>Rather, we have a case of "let us differentiate" between totally different species. This is what needs to be said about the body: the body of a Jewish person is of a totally different quality from the body of [members] of all nations of the world. …
>The difference of the inner quality, however, is so great that the bodies should be considered as completely different species. This is the reason why the Talmud states that there is a halachic difference in attitude about the bodies of non-Jews: "their bodies are in vain." …

>An even greater difference exists in regard to the soul. Two contrary types of soul exist, a non-Jewish soul comes from three satanic spheres, while the Jewish soul stems from holiness. …
>A Jew was not created as a means for some [other] purpose; he himself is the purpose, since the substance of all [divine] emanations was created only to serve the Jews. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" [Genesis 1:1] means that [the heavens and the earth] were created for the sake of the Jews, who are called the "beginning."

some people really hate having their religion observed by the public eye

>>24966048
Are you here to discuss a book or are you here to discuss politics?

>>24966055
Thanks for engaging precisely 0 times with the contents of my posts anon. I was informed that jews love arguing, but you've proven me mistaken.

I'll soldier on:
"As has been explained, an embryo is called a human being, because it has both body and soul. Thus, the difference between a Jewish and a non-Jewish embryo can be understood. There is also a difference in bodies. The body of a Jewish embryo is on a higher level than is the body of a non-Jew. This is expressed in the phrase “let us differentiate” about the body of a non-Jew, which is a totally different kind. The same difference exists in regard to the soul: the soul of a Jewish embryo is different than the soul of a non-Jewish embryo. We therefore ask: Why should a non-
Jew be punished if he kills even a non-Jewish embryo while a Jew should not be punished even if he kills a Jewish embryo? The answer can be understood by [considering] the general difference between Jews and non-Jews: A Jew was not created as a means for some [other] purpose; he himself is the purpose, since the substance of all [divine] emanations was created only to serve the Jews. “In the beginning God created the
heavens and the earth” [Genesis 1:1] means that [the heavens and the earth] were created for the sake of the Jews, who are called the “beginning.”

Quoted from p.59-60 in Israel Shahak and Norton Mezvinsky, "Jewish Fundamentalism In Israel" (Pluto Press 2004)

>>24966066
I'm here to discuss a book. The content of your post contained a claim about that book. Can you back up your claim about that book?

Why do you even come to /lit/ if you're so opposed to the discussion of books?

you can tell this faggot arguing is a zionist because this is exactly how they argue
they mire you down with constant semantics, trying to trap you into same vague legalistic argument, waste your time with "well technically" nonsense and never engage with the substance of your argument
their whole religion is based around making legal arguments to try and cheat god

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I love books!

>Rebbi Simeon ben Ioḥai stated: Kill the best of Gentiles
https://www.sefaria.org/Jerusalem_Talmud_Kiddushin.4.11.7?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en

>"A gentile who engages in Torah study is liable to receive the death penalty" Sanhedrin 59a
I find the latter telling, considering discussion around the talmud prompts a sudden insistence to obscure it.

>"the punishment of a gentile who studies Torah is like that of one who engages in intercourse with a betrothed young woman, which is execution by stoning." Sanhedrin 59a


I feel for the Palestinians when this is what their central text asserts.

>>24965994
George Soros isn't an orthodox jew he's a straight up leftist atheist

Again, racial supremacy doesn’t require obedience to the Talmud. Are you specifically a White nationalist because of Mein Kampf?

Onkelos said to him: What is the punishment of that man, a euphemism for Jesus himself, in the next world? Jesus said to him: He is punished with boiling excrement. As the Master said: Anyone who mocks the words of the Sages will be sentenced to boiling excrement. And this was his sin, as he mocked the words of the Sages.

Gittin 57a

>>24965997
To seriously study the Talmud is extremely time-consuming. The reason Haredi refused to join the IDF is because of they did then they wouldn't have the time to study the Talmud enough to realistically practice it

>>24966088
Most of the Jews in positions of power are not religious Jews. It's an ethnic affiliation that arose out of a sense of solidarity in the wake of the Holocaust.

>>24966084
Jews don’t believe this though otherwise the Torah wouldn’t literally be publicly available to you right now at your leisure.

>>24966108
Well, SOME Jews believe it, but not the Jews who run the Internet.

>>24966102
I said ''Talmud study isn't exclusive to the ultra orthodox and you know it.'' to which you said
>To seriously study the Talmud is extremely time-consuming.

You are a strawmanning faggot.

>>24966108
Bad faith argument.

>>24966108
Palestinians not being jewish is apparently enough for secular (not religious!) jews to speedrun Yugoslavia war crime simulator on every living being in the Gaza strip, in accordance with talmudic doctrine.

As >>24965961 said, talmudic jew or secular matters very little they both believe the same things. One group is a little more honest about it, at least.

>>24966100
>jews who don’t believe Jesus was the messiah believe he’s damned as a heretic
Sure

Funniest part is the Jesus and his apostles often quote the Oral law ( Talmud) . The Quran also is littered with quotes from the Talmud.

>>24966154
>jews believe the Christian messiah is boling in shit
More like

>>24966161
Some Jews, sure. Less than half of all Jews are Orthodox Jews though, so most Jews don't really concern themselves with what the Talmud does or doesn't say.

>>24966149
Completely irrelevant to my point you’re replying to. Also… ”Close your hearts to pity.”

>>24966161
Just as you believe the Pharisees is burning in hell when to Jews they were just trying to uphold the Tradition of Moses. I don’t care about Semitic infighting.

>>24966161
As a Jew who went to Jewish school and Jewish sunday school what a lot of people don't know is that Jesus is never once mentioned in any class or lecture. A lot of Christians think we sit there talking about Jesus all the time when the new testament is not even a topic of discussion.

>>24966169
I didn't know Jesus-haters like Sarah Silverman were orthodox. Neither did I know all the illiterate jews signing their documents with a circle (and not a cross) on Ellis Island were studious orthodox menschen.

My thesis is that you're full of shit, and trying to downplay the relevance of the talmud on the jewish worldview.

>>24966172
>it's irrelevant
Concession accepted, begrudgingly.

>>24966188
>jews think studying the torah is punishable by death
>this is not something enforced(even though they rule the world)
>so obviously jews don’t adhere to every aspect of the talmud
>THEYRE KILLING KIDS
/pol/ is a lobotomy

>>24966188
I have to be honest, I really don't care about Sarah Silverman and I don't understand why you do.

>>24966187
Onkelos said to him: What is the punishment of that man, a euphemism for Jesus himself, in the next world? Jesus said to him: He is punished with boiling excrement. As the Master said: Anyone who mocks the words of the Sages will be sentenced to boiling excrement. And this was his sin, as he mocked the words of the Sages.

>>24966196
>>24966197
see
>>24966072

>>24966188
Why is jewish disdain for Jesus, a 2000 year old schism, dependent specifically on the Talmud?

>>24966196
>>THEYRE KILLING KIDS

Do remind me how many Palestinian children have been killed either directly or through Israeli-manufactured conditions that bring about death, like starvation? Do you contest that this is deliberate (as implied in 'killing') and therefore know more than the legal experts in the Hague?

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>>24965693
> Because ye have said, The LORD hath raised us up prophets in Babylon; 16Know that thus saith the LORD of the king that sitteth upon the throne of David, and of all the people that dwelleth in this city, and of your brethren that are not gone forth with you into captivity; 17Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will send upon them the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, and will make them like vile figs, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil. 18And I will persecute them with the sword, with the famine, and with the pestilence, and will deliver them to be removed to all the kingdoms of the earth, to be a curse, and an astonishment, and an hissing, and a reproach, among all the nations whither I have driven them: 19Because they have not hearkened to my words, saith the LORD, which I sent unto them by my servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them; but ye would not hear, saith the LORD.

>>24966188
You literally don't even know what the Talmud is. like 5000 pages are just about farming. Funny seeing you candace owens retards think you're smart on the internet. Christians have said much more worse things about the Jews throughout thousands of books and speeches and yet you cry about one quote from one rabbi in a 16000 paged book with millions of words in it 2000 years ago who said one bad thing about Jesus in a debate. And for one it was written during the Byzantine era where Christian Arab Ghassinids came into the land of Israel and burning ancient synagogues and expelling Jews.

>>24966201
Your non sequiturs are not a kabbalah conspiracy, you tard.

>>24966211
>And for one it was written during the Byzantine era where Christian Arab Ghassinids came into the land of Israel and burning ancient synagogues and expelling Jews.

If only jews would stop letting things that happened 2 millenia ago inform their current beliefs, and therefore prove the exact opposite of what anons assert the talmud says about jesus.

They can't? Well in that case, enjoy having your demented religious scribblings laid bare on the chan lol. Not like you don't know what's coming when enough people 'notice.'

>>24966213
never said anything about a conspiracy did I fag

>>24966211
>the talmud says jesus is boiling in shit
>''uhm it also talks about farming''

Wow, got me there.

>>24966211
>Christians have said much more worse things about the Jews throughout thousands of books and speeches
Tu quoque, on the board named lit? Please, that's low, even for this thread's standards.

>>24966211
see
>>24966072

>>24966215
Do Christians not have questionable current beliefs informed from events and opinions hundreds or thousands of years ago? That seems like it's the human condition, not restricted to any one group.

>>24966211
If not jewish scripture, then what are >>24966048
and >>24966036 quoting? A farming manual?

>>24966215
Are you retarded. It's like im not talking to a human but some idiot who just talks like out of some stormfag pamphlet.
New testament has numerous quotes from the oral law Talmud and Jesus followed many facets of the Talmud. You retarded nazi faggots keep using the Talmud as an excuse for you the keep acting like the disgusting human beings you are but are being used by idiots like Candace owens for evil. Fact is that the truth always prevails and thats why people like you always get stricken down and destroyed in the most humiliating way by God almighty.

>>24966229
Which Christian nation is currently committing genocide while invoking religious scripture? Reminder that there are many more Christians than there are jews, so this should be easy.

>>24966236
Hahaha, oh my.

Israel will cease to exist in our lifetime btw

>>24966238
hmmm over a million Christians dead in the Ukraine war started by a devout orthodox Christian leader.

>>24966236
>idiots like Candace owens for evil
Is that the woman calling out Israel's genocide of the Palestinian peoples?
Do you think what Israel is doing to Palestinians is evil, or is it evil only when there are words about jews on the internet?

>>24966238
You might not have been alive for this, but the President of the United States used his Christian faith as part of the justification for declaring war on Iraq. There were signs of Gog and Magog, you know. We have maintained troops on the ground throughout the Middle East for quite a while since then.

>>24966242
You failed to meet my challenge as I asked for
(a) genocide, and
(b) invoking religious scripture

Hmmm...try again?

>>24966244
>>24966246 too

>>24966243
Honestly, does it matter? She's a fine example of Israel's status as a litmus test for antisemitism still holding true to this day. She wasn't openly hating Jews years ago when it wasn't fashionable but when it became clear she wouldn't lose her income she was more than happy to spew vitriol.

>>24966243
>Genocide
>Population growing in the middle of a war.
>Every video of "israel attacking civilians" has a professional 6000 dollar camera pointed at the exact spot of the incoming air strike before it happens.

If you think allying yourself with Nazis and Islamic terrorists like Hamas and think you're on the side of God you got another thing coming to you.

>>24966246
If Putin was Jewish you would be saying he attacked Ukraine because he was an evil Talmudic Jew even though he didn't invoke religious scripture but because he's an orthodox Christian you just ignore his religion and his devoutness to the church and ignore that he killed millions of his own people and Ukrainians.

>>24966250
doesn't matter you're goneskis bro

>>24966250
Thanks for admitting your hypocrisy so proudly at least. As >>24966072 said, you're playing fool again. This time against the opinion of countless NGO's and legal experts in the Hague, who I'm certain will be enthralled by convincing arguments as the ones in your post.

>>24966255
Not a genocide, and no invocation of Christian scripture. I think you should give up and admit that you cannot answer to my challenge.

>>24965730
Some of the worst parts of the Talmud are considerably worse than anything mentioned in the Bible. In the harshest books of the OT the Israelites were commanded to kill to a man people that practiced child sacrifice. The Talmud outlines why it is technically ok to have sex with toddlers and explains how pre-pubescent boys are fair game because they aren't men yet. It unambiguously calls for the slaughter and subjugation of all gentile peoples, repeatedly, in stark contrast to the unifying prophesied Messiah of the OT. I have read quite a few religious texts in my time and literally none have been as genuinely hateful as the Talmud.

>>24965949
Obviously most Jews want to subjugate Palestine and it’s people (if not subjugate any non-jew to fulfill some social need or spiritual one, like their messiah wiping out and white and none-white people and subjugate all their nations) this isn’t even ‘controversial’ — like it’s a well majority belief they admit too. They’re just mad that people are acknowledging it in an unregulated manner because of the Internet, and they are unprepared to defend themselves without sounding like psychos or unamerican anti-free speech tyrants. If the left and right can agree on anything: Zionism/Jewish power is universally unwelcomed, and it’s a generational divide. Ben Netanyahu is already meeting with other Jewish organizations fund better PR, but I think it’s too late.

>>24966261
>you cannot answer my challenge

There is no challenge you're just retarded. you're not even saying anything its just slop with no meaning. Putin literally said that his Christian beliefs influence his political agenda which includes his decision to kill 1.5 million people in Ukraine. If you don't think 1.5 million people dying isn't a genocide in an unprovoked war but claim that Israel is committing a genocide by fighting a terrorist group who actively provoked it is where we know that Hamas numbers are heavily skewed and that almost all videos coming out of that war was propaganda and misleading then there is no discussion you're just showing your bias as plain as day and pretending you're an honest person who's seeking knowledge makes you look more stupid than you are.

>>24965693
it's thousands of pages of rabbis arguing with each other.
of course you can find instances of some of them saying incredibly inflammatory shit. this is totally unremarkable. go argue with a few jews for an hour each and you'll see what i mean.
the talmud doesn't tell you anything about jews that you can't learn from talking to them.

>>24966274
Not afraid to inform you that I don’t seek ‘knowledge’ from genocide deniers.

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>>24966268
Palestine is a soviet lie that the Arabs invented with the help of a Romanian soviet propagandist. Palestine was and always be a European colonial name for that land. It's not a nationality or an ethnicity. Every "Palestinian" coin, passport and official document had an abbreviation in Hebrew writing that meant "Land of Israel" . Arabs started calling themselves "Palestinians" to demand more land from Jews after Jordan ceded the West bank to Israel after the 67 war. Israels charter called for both arabs and Jews to live together but we know what happened. Arabs started a civil war and massacred Jews on a bus then went around killing Jews until the Jews fought back then 7 Arab armies invaded Israel and Israel won. It's the Arabs who continue this war over and over again.

>>24966279
True. The talmud are just a bunch of rabbis interpreting the Torah, yes, they have some pretty nasty stuff in there about non-Jews and christian’s, but honestly if you wanna get a horrific reality check just talk to any Jew irl about literally anything besides safe topics like the weather or sports.

>>24966280
Says the guy who thinks killing 1.5 million people and destroying an entire country unprovoked isn't a genocide. You probably don't think when Assad gassed his own people to death and killed a million Syrians wasn't a genocide or when Hamas broke into Israel and deliberately tried to kill as many people as possible isn't a genocide. Israel has complete air superiority in Gaza and could have killed everyone there in a day but instead sent out millions of messages and pamphlets telling civilians to leave the area its about to bomb before it does it now thats a genocide according to you. Your propaganda will only work on tiktok to kids who don't know anything not here.

Can’t believe getting jews itt to reveal their true face was as easy as mentioning Palestine + genocide.

>>24966288
You didn’t meet my challenge. You can either provide legal arguments as to why Ukraine is a genocide and Gaza isn’t, or you can take your histrionic screeching to /his/ where you will get many updoots.

>>24966292
>true faces

Facts and reality.

I guess your true face is lies ,deceit and evil.

>>24966295
You guess, I cite sources. This is why you are angry, and I’m having fun. Wanna try again? >>24966294

>>24966281
Israel was founded by terrorists. Look up the Irgun, look up Menachem Begin and how he proudly saw himself as the father of modern terrorism, look up the origins of Netanyahu's party, look up how Israel actually supported Hamas and gave them funding in order to kill the two state solution. Granted you probably know these things already but choose to ignore them.

>>24966292
it's drives them into rabid fits, like a genetic compulsion or something
one of the main things that chuds are wrong about is that Israel is this hyper-competent entity that is always in control, when they're just as mistake prone as anyone else

Seeing as the Jews ITT are well-argued and well-read, and the /pol/tards aren't, I shall be taking the side of the Jews. This is /lit/, after all.

>>24966281
Palestine predates the Soviet Union by 2000 years ago — are you crazy? that alone really reflects everything you’re saying.It was used by Herodotus (5th c. BCE) The Soviets later instrumentalized the term politically, but they did not invent it. This is a genetic fallacy, you’re discrediting something by pointing to later political use.

>>24965693
it's controversial because their understanding of god is limited and spiteful. they exclude the story of god's chosen lamb for slaughter that redeemed mankind in the gospel.

>>24966297

>I cite sources

lol k

>You can either provide legal arguments as to why Ukraine is a genocide and Gaza isn’t

here is a definition of what a genocide is.

Genocide is the deliberate, systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group, as defined by the 1948 UN Genocide Convention

Is Israel committing Genocide in Gaza by that definition? no . It is not Israel's goal to do that, its stated goal is to destroy Hamas so they can't attack Israel.


Does Hamas's october 7 attack on Israel fit that description? Yes it does. They went into Israel indiscriminately killing everyone and that was their stated goal .

Does that definition apply to the Russian war on Ukraine?
Yes it does. Russia Invaded Ukraine and killed 1.5 million people and Putin has kidnapped hundreds of thousands of Ukranian kids in order to russify them in internment camps in order to erase their Ukrainian heritage.

Ukrainian authorities have verified nearly 20,000 cases of child abductions since the 2022 invasion, while independent experts and organizations estimate the actual number may be much higher, potentially in the tens or hundreds of thousands. As of late 2024/early 2025, only approximately 1,600 children have been successfully returned to Ukraine.
Methods and Intent
The abductions are part of a deliberate state policy aimed at erasing Ukrainian identity and forcibly assimilating children into Russian culture. Methods include:
Separating children from parents during "filtration" camps or after their parents are killed.
Removing children from state institutions like orphanages and boarding schools.
Deceiving parents into sending children to "summer camps" in Russia, after which the children are detained indefinitely.
Changing children's names, birthplaces, and citizenship to facilitate illegal adoption by Russian families, making reunification efforts extremely difficult.
Once in Russia, children are often subjected to propaganda, ideological "re-education", and in some cases, military-style training in youth organizations like Yunarmia.

>>24966316
see
>>24966072

again there is no point engaging with these people, they have done this for millenia and it's all they will ever do
they will start entire publications to try and convince you your own faculties are deceiving you

>>24966281
But this mostly false and half-truths. Palestine is not a Soviet invention at all, it’s a geographic name used continuously since antiquity, long before modern times.

Palestinian identity formed in the late 19th–20th century, the same period when Israeli, Jordanian, Syrian, and Lebanese national identities emerged; calling it fake would invalidate all of them. And the British Mandate documents being trilingual including Hebrew references to “Eretz Yisrael” reflect colonial administration, not Arab recognition of Jewish sovereignty or supremacy.

Plus, arabs in Palestine referred to themselves as Palestinians well before 1967 anyways, I think that’s a crazy thing to claim, and the conflict did not begin with a single act of Arab aggression but with a civil war that escalated violence and competing national movements.

You shouldn’t Reduce a century-long conflict to “Arabs invented Palestinians to steal land” isn’t history at all, it’s just ideological simplification.

>>24966299
Oh you mean when the Hagganah (IDF) literally bombed the Irgun ships and killed many of the Irgun soldiers because they were doing shady terrorist things and forced them disband almost causing a civil war.


>how Israel actually supported Hamas

Oh you mean when Hamas hadn't started committing terrorist activities and never attacked Jews as it was opposed to the PLO who at the time were the terrorists who were attacking Israeli civilians and hijacking planes.

Granted you probably know these things already but choose to ignore them.

>>24966323
>>24966313


Palestine was always a European colonial name for Israel. There was no distinct Palestinian identity, nationality or ethnicity. Arabs were referred to "the Arabs of Palestine"
The soviet propagandists created the Palestinian national identity and now these stateless Ottoman Arabs are claiming that they are "Palestinian" when there is no such thing. There was never a Palestinian national identity until the Soviets gave Yasser Arafat the idea
>Plus, arabs in Palestine referred to themselves as Palestinians well before 1967

Thats not what the Arab leaders were saying at that time here is a quote from a Palestinian PLO member

Dutch newspaper Trouw in 1977 by Zuheir Mohsen, a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Executive Committee. In the interview, Mohsen reportedly stated: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity". This quote has been frequently used by those who argue that Palestinian identity was an "invented" or purely "tactical" political concept.

If you watch old interviews of Arab leaders talking about the Arabs living in Palestine they always referred to them as the "Arabs of Palestine" not "Palestinians"

>>24966299
>>24966325
I think you’re largely both wrong. Israel was not founded by terrorists even though militant groups like Irgun did commit acts that meet the definition of terrorism, but the state itself was consolidated by the Haganah, which forcibly dismantled rival militias to establish a monopoly on force anyways.

But at the same time, I think it’s also false to claim that Israel simply crushed terrorism and bears no responsibility for later dynamics: Israeli authorities did tolerate and at times facilitate Islamist social organizations in Gaza in the 1970s–80s as a counterweight to the PLO, it was a decision recognized as a strategic miscalculation not a plot to create Hamas or sabotage a two-state solution, I think that’s largely wrong. Hamas emerged from Palestinian Islamist currents during the First Intifada and quickly adopted violence on its own terms. You’re both flattening timelines.

>>24966337
>I think you’re largely both wrong

I literally said exactly what you said. The guy who posted the first comment deliberately skewed history to make Israel look evil so his stormfag boyfriends can go on other threads and on tiktok and post his propaganda.

>>24966346
Because it’s just largely bullshit technicalities to claim a moral purity that simply doesn’t exist. Like Altalena for example, where the IDF bombed Irgun ships to prove the state "rejected" terrorism is a massive cope because you’re ignoring the fact that those very same militia leaders, like Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir, weren't exiled; they were integrated, mainstreamed, and eventually elected Prime Minister, proving the state didn't remove the terrorist DNA, it just put it in a suit. It’s still a government using force.

The Hamas strategy is even weaker imo; I think claiming Israel only supported them before they were terrorists” misses the point entirely, Israel empowered the Islamists specifically as a cynical divide and conquer tool to cripple the secular PLO. As Brigadier General Yitzhak Segev admitted,
>"The Israeli government gave me a budget, and the military budget gives to the mosques"

So it was to serve as a counterweight to secularists, and former official Avner Cohen bluntly stated this:

>"Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation."

You can’t feed a tiger to kill a wolf and then claim innocence when it turns on you; that wasn't accidental charity, it was arrogant strategy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine%E2%80%93Soviet_Union_relations

The Soviet Union had, according to a Palestinian journalist, secret contacts with several Palestinian leaders as early as May 1964, and had active cooperation with a number of Palestinian social organizations by 1965. These organizations would receive Soviet aid, especially in the form of scholarships for study in the Soviet Union.[1]

Soviet relations began to improve with Palestine following the Six-Day War of 1967, with the increasing political importance of Palestinian resistance. In July 1969, the Soviets decided to recognize Palestinians as a nationality, rather than just Arab inhabitants of Palestine. This included the consequent right to Palestinian self-determination, although it seemed "difficult for them to define."[1]

>>24966365
>divide and conquer tool to cripple the secular PLO.

>secular PLO

Did you just google the Altalena affair and take 30 min to come up with this weak response. The fact that you call Menachem Begin a terrorist but the PLO the same guys who went around the world hijacking planes and blowing themselves up in restaurants secular is laughable. Begin literally reformed and sued for peace with the Arabs and signed a peace deal with Egypt meanwhile Yasser Arrafat and his PLO was paying kids parents for their kids to strap bombs to themselves and blow up in busses and fast food joints. You people just grasp at whatever you think will stick and hope people are stupid enough to listen to your slop.

>>24965693
psyop: the photo

>>24966376
how were the plo getting their weapons

>>24966346
you don't need any history at all to make Israel look evil just look at how they act right now

>>24966384
Mostly from the Soviet Union and China with China cutting off supplies by a large margin in the late 70s and Iran supplying large amounts of weaponry after the revolution.

>>24965929
Nta but nothing significant will happen.

>>24966068
Let him be.

>>24966236
Nta. Is their a good source to learn more?

>>24966102
Soros is a uniquely bad example given that he seems to be in the vein of genuine transhumanist types, this distances him from other powerful and wealthy Jews. Not saying his grand vision for the future is any less myopic and horrifying but he was a name that was passed to the goyim for a reason.

File: cq5dam.thumbnail.cropped.(...).jpg (25 KB, 750x422)

25 KB JPG

This thread makes me want to raise an army and conquer Jerusalem. Clearly the Jews don't deserve to possess the city.

593 or 607. Ultimately it doesn't matter unless you're measuring lengths of the great pyramid.

>>24966416
it's already happening

>>24966434
https://www.calledoutbelievers.org/yeshua-and-the-oral-torah/

also

Jesus' teachings sometimes included references or allusions to traditions later found in the codified Oral Torah.
"The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do" (Matthew 23:2–3). This acknowledges the teaching authority of the Pharisees, who promoted the oral law and the concept of sitting in the "seat of Moses," which is not found in the Written Torah.
The Golden Rule: While Jesus combined verses from the written Torah for the greatest commandment, his phrasing of the Golden Rule in Matthew 7:12 is notably similar to a saying from the oral tradition by Rabbi Hillel, a contemporary.
"Go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice'" (Matthew 9:13; 12:7). Jesus used the rabbinic idiom "Go and learn" to direct students to study scripture in a manner consistent with rabbinic interpretation.


The apostles also occasionally referenced non-scriptural traditions from the body of oral teaching.
Jannes and Jambres: Paul mentions these figures in 2 Timothy 3:8 as opposing Moses, though their names are not in the Old Testament account. Their names appear in oral traditions and other ancient Jewish texts.
Dispute over Moses' body: Jude 9 mentions a dispute between Michael and Satan over Moses' body. This incident is not in the Old Testament but was known through Jewish oral tradition, possibly from the Assumption of Moses.
"It is more blessed to give than to receive" (Acts 20:35). Paul quotes this saying of Jesus, noting it was preserved orally before the Gospels were written. This saying is not recorded in the canonical Gospels.
The "Rock" that followed Israel: In 1 Corinthians 10:4, Paul refers to the rock providing water in the wilderness as having "followed them". This detail, not in the Old Testament, is present in rabbinic tradition and used by Paul for a spiritual point.

>>24965785
>>24965799
I don't want jews to die because they're 'racist', I want them to die because they're acting against my interests.

>>24965880
You ignore the influence a holy text has even on those who don't believe it. There is lots of research on how Christianity and Christian values have underpinned Western Society and how modern day atheists tend to mirror those very Christian values, Dominion by Tom Holland is a recent popular book about this. Secular Jews likely have baggage from the Talmud that defines at least some of their instincts and views even though they don't believe in it. Israel Shahak discusses exactly this when he talks about how Judaism has several verses and commandments that seem to promote hatred of ones neighbor which can explain why Jews gotta Jew to this day.

>>24966196
Yeah, Jews aren't killing kids. Just ignore THE ENTIRE ISRAEL-PALESTINE CONFLICT

>>24966244
Dubya is a protestant so he's not Christian.

>>24965785
This is funny ngl.
Doesn't mean I'll betray my fellow Gentiles.

>>24965693
Real question is, if it's just an argument between different commentators, how can it be considered as authoritative?

>>24966316
Embarrassing post, mr shapiro

>>24966459
Thank you anon. I'll check it out :)

>the talmud does not contain that
>ok it contains that but so do other books
>okay it has exclusively vile passages but it’s not uniformly accepted
>okay prominent rabbis around the world agree nonjews are animals that deserve death but it’s only the ultra orthodox
>okay secular israelis are killing children for fun but it’s not really genocide because *rapes definition of a word*

Tiresome

>>24965968
>>24965974
So intellectually dishonest. Ask any Jew, especially Orthodox Jews, and they’ll tell you that you cannot even understand one sentence in the Torah without the Talmud.

What you speak of is the written Torah. The Talmud contains the oral Torah which was passed down through word of mouth. The rabbis decided to write it down and that’s why the Talmud exists today.


So in practical terms the written Torah (the 5 books of Moses) tells you the laws. The oral Torah (Talmud) explains how the law is implemented such as exact instructions on the sabbath, circumcision, etc.

Please see yourself out of this conversation. You’re an absolute dilettante.

>>24966817
How does this prove Talmud as the central text of Judaism?

>>24966817
So the Torah is the central text of the talmud?

Secular jews refuse to walk under the Arch of Titus btw. They cannot get over things that happened 2000 years ago and their actions show for it.

>>24966809
Discussing the talmud with a jew always ends up like this. They really rely on you not reading it

>>24966817
You’ve not proven how the talmud is the central text in Judaism. Why won’t you prove that?

>>24966387
How do they act right now? Like any other state would you mean?