Kind of impressive that a man can profess Marxism for decades, study it to its entirety comfortably from the ivory tower of a cushy position in literal Marxist academia under a Communist regime, finding out from a sympathetic position everything that there is to be found about Marxism from its earliest proponents to its latest ones, the least and the greatest, only to eventually arrive at the conclusion that... it's all fundamentally wrong and can never workI mean when even this guy with all his sympathy and effort gave up, it's telling, isn't it?
All communists deserve death.
>>24971707list one fundamental marx was wrong about. i'll wait.
>>24971725economic calculation problem
>>24971730it's debunked by modern computing
>>24971742show me a computer doing economic central planning
>>24971725that the abolition of private property would lead to a harmonious society without class divisions
>>24971744it's right around the corner
>>24971749>2 more weeksmarxism in a nutshell
>>24971752refuted by the problem of induction. just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't.
>>24971725if primitive society was classless and communist, and it resulted in the emergence of private property and class struggle, why would the classless communism of the future not result in the same thing?
>>249717572 more weeks bro please we're doing it for real this time just wait I PROMISE
>>24971725Labor theory of value
>>24971757So cheer up. Maybe you'll get laid one day after all.
>>24971752That, and ReAl CoMmUnIsM hAs NeVeR bEeN tRiEd.
>>24971767Not inherently wrong since value itself isn't scientific, why we value things is personal so since SOME people do value labor time spent then for THOSE the value is in fact determined by labor, in part.Like a guy who's the only one who makes X will account for his time to make X to determine what he'll sell X for—given that there are people who want X and that he's not in desperate poverty.(Need completely topples all theories of value: if you need 10 bucks now or you'll die then you will sell something worth billions in any other circumstances for those 10 bucks.)Tldr LTV is true if the seller wants it to be and has monopoly on X—or it can become true if a culture collectively chooses for it to be one of its mores.
>>24971794>well actually it's true if society collectively decided to engage in mass delusion2 more weeks
>>24971725You cannot force people to give up their unique individuality, their unique personality, their unique outlook towards life, their unique choices, their unique outcomes, etcMarxism fails to answer this very basic fundamental human question. Top down command theory of humanity leads you to bug society. A slavery.
>>24971725the first socialist revolutions would take place in Western Europe
>>24971802Why are things made by hand locally more expensive than machine made things from china?
>>24971758result in a primitive society?
>>24971803you do this through transhumanism into a higher form of society.
>>24971811they did but they were unsuccessful
>>24971817because people subjectively value them more
>>24971803ants and bees do it just fine. sounds like a skill issue.
>>24971707The fact this book causes so much seethe is a testament to its overarching quality.
>>24971820no, result in the reemergence of class conflict. if there already was a classless society in the past, and it just generated warring classes spontaneously, why wouldn't the classless society of the future do that also?
>>24971829Are we ants and bees though? Do ants and bees have consciousness?
>>24971829>communism will work as long as we literally turn humans into bugschecks out
>>24971829>Marxists have the brains of antsCommunism explained.
defenses of marxism so far:>computers will solve it>2 more weeks>it has to happen because I said so>if everyone just spontaneously decided that the LTV was true then it would be>transhumanism or something>I aspire to be an insect
>>24971834Does it really? First time I've seen it mentioned on /lit/. Sounds like a nothingburger t.b.h.
>>24971744it's called Google AdSense, surveillance capitalism, social media algorithms, etc. that's your economy bro.
>>24971836no, but we will be something better. yes they are conscious.
>>24971849and succesful because you haven't refuted them (because you can't) but just sneer at them like a retard. you think bleeding makes you the victor.
>>24971835true. which is why transhumanism is the answer.
>>24971859>succes(s)ful>no functioning communist societies remaincurious definition of success!
>>24971850It does. If you spend some time outside of this place
>>24971867it doesn't exist until it does brainlet. many such cases. babies, airplanes, taco bell, and so on and so on. they all didn't exist and then bam there they were, existing, just like AI-controlled turbo communism soon will. >Cronus recognised, of course, that as we have explained, human nature is not up to the task of independently managing all human affairs without becoming full of arrogance and injustice. So with this in mind, he then installed kings for our cities, and rulers who were not human but belonged rather to a more divine and exalted race, the race of daimons. This is just what we ourselves do nowadays with our sheep and herds of domestic animals. We do not make oxen rule over oxen or goats over goats, but we ourselves, a kind superior to them, act as their masters. In like manner, the god, out of love for humanity, appointed a kind superior to us, the daimons, to take care of us. This was a very easy task for them and a great kindness to us, providing us with peace and respect, lawfulness and unrestricted justice, and ensuring that the various groups that comprise humanity were free from faction and happy.-Plato Laws IV 713c-713e
>>24971725Preemptively assblasted by Saint Max (pbuh)
>>24971850holy newfagigkeit
>>24971870You mean at your university Marxist Society Weekly Focus Group? Because most normal people couldn't give a fuck.
>>24971890Aren't you just ...
>>24971880>this is considered an argument among MarxistsHoly Coperino.
>>24971865the answer to what?
>>24971725That any organized large-scale movement toward a communist society won’t be quickly betrayed and sabotaged by simple human greed, cruelty, paranoia, dogmatism, and lust for power
>>24971899still waiting on an actual reputation instead of "dat dumm hahaha dat tupid hahaha i so funny hehehe". i can wait.
>>24971902>>24971903again, only transhumanism solves original sin, and communism can only exist if men become more than men.
>>24971803Sure, it's not very obvious how that relates to marxism though. If anything that's more related to marx's critique of capitalism, something about fishing in the morning without being a fisherman
>>24971880>they all didn't exist and then bam there they were, existingyou can also picture endless science-fictional societies that are not communism, so i don't see what your argument is for your particular nonexistent thing to pop into existence tomorrow instead of any other nonexistent thing. ultimately it's a purely faith-based notion where you've rebranded the rapture as communism
>>24971913Free will conflicts with marxism because humans want to do different things at different rate in different circumstances. Whereby Marxists wants conformity.
>>24971915because we will will it into being. it will be intentionally brought into existence by architects and masons of the spirit. checkmate camerade.
>>24971908so you'd rather them become women, huh?interesting...
>>24971923literally Satanic
>>24971921No, it's more or less the opposite. Capitalism enforces conformity because maintaining a division of labor is more efficient than the alternative (this isn't exclusive to capitalism)>For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow
>>24971921yes hence, again, transhumanism.>Multicellular organisms arise in various ways, for example by cell division or by aggregation of many single cells.[4][3] Colonial organisms are the result of many identical individuals joining together to form a colony. However, it can often be hard to separate colonial protists from true multicellular organisms, because the two concepts are not distinct; colonial protists have been dubbed "pluricellular" rather than "multicellular".[
>>24971923if communists possessed "will" they would be already acting upon the world to make it the way they wanted instead of constructing this kind of cope, but of course then they wouldn't be communists. congratulations, comrade, you've reinvented that book "the secret."
>>24971925oh look another case of >>24971906 many such cases. still waiting btw.
"transhumanism" has to be the silliest thing for a marxist to put faith in, because class stratification already has to do with human biodiversity and therefore inequality, so how is expanding that diversity via technological meddling going to lead to a classless marxist society? with transhumanism, the distance between human individuals only grows because the rich man can not only pass down his genes and wealth but also edit his children into superhumans and yours into drones. the class system doesn't collapse, it scales outwards. the rich become a different species than the poor.
>>24971938they are. they are literally working on it right now. i understand this is a little too high iq 4 u but please try to understand that just because a thing hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it can't or won't—that remains to be seen. the eschaton WILL be immanentized.
>>24971944because everyone will be plugged into the internet AI hivemind. there will be no rich or poor.
>>24971941it wasn't arguing with you I was being an asshole.
>>24971952man I'd like to see this bitch nude
>>24971952if the world of the future will be brought about by will, then it will be brought about by the will of those who HAVE will, and we can know who has will by looking at the world of today, and it's not communists. that's why you have to invent secret machinations behind what's visible to maintain your fantasy. the things that are happening are the things that are happening, and the flattening of society into classlessness is not happening. the opposite is happening.
>>24971955*battle hymn of the republic plays*
>>24971955>just give up your will and identity to Big Computer bro, don’t ask who made it or controls it just trust me bro it’ll make everything so much better
>>24971970once again filtered by the problem of induction.
>>24971974no no no. the correctness will be rationally demonstrated to the member, and THEN they will be "plugged in". if they refuse they will be exiled or, if they refuse exile as well, executed.
>>24971955even assuming you will get your ai hivemind, you will not be plugged into it under the same rules as the people controlling the process of plugging people into the hivemind. your fantasy cyberspace would have its own scarce resources (processing power etc) to be privately owned, it's own classes engaged in a struggle. the people that have power over technology are not going to use it to eliminate their present advantage, they are going to use it to increase it. you will be poorer than is currently imaginable. they will be richer than is currently imaginable. human diversity will increase, class divisions will increase. the opposite of communism.
>>24971725Dialectical Materialism is just whig history.
>>24971707>Kind of impressive that a man can profess Marxism for decadeswhile being a shameless opportunist apparatchik >only to eventually arrive at the conclusion that... it's all fundamentally wrong and can never workafter being exiled from the countrythose two facts are very important, also the way he seethes in vol 3 is just cooky... and this is still one of the best books about the history of marxism, crazy how dogshit the ideology is despite being 100% correct about everything
>>24971966Judging by her style and the quality of the photo she’s probably in her 40s now
>>24971986>you will not be plugged into it under the same rules as the people controlling the process of plugging people into the hivemind.yes you will because there are no people controlling the process—only the one hivemind.>you will not be plugged into it under the same rules as the people controlling the process of plugging people into the hivemind.
>>24971978no, you just don't understand what that is. the problem of induction means you can never be certain there aren't any black swans, not that you can be certain that there are definitely hidden black swans just around the corner. you are very bad at logic and your argument works exactly as well for us all waking up in warhammer 40k tomorrow as it does for your gay communism.
>>24971742>He thinks the knowledge problem is the same as the ECP.Clueless.
>>24972004>yes you will because there are no people controlling the process—only the one hivemind.the process of creating the hivemind cannot be controlled by the hivemind because the hivemind doesn't exist.
>>24972005sub 69 iq retard who can't into logic, my point is not whether or not the black swin exists—that is irrelevant—we 300++ genius iqs will create the black swan. the problem of induction only refutes naysayers like you that say things never happen; it simply gives inspiration to yeasayers like me who say we will make it happen. cope more self-limiting minimind.
>>24971725The tendency of the rate of profit to fall bringing down capitalism.
>>24972014yes. it does exist. it creates itself.
>>24972014>For these thousands of years the same Architect has directed the work: and that Architect is the one living Mind whose nature is to think, to bring to self-consciousness what it is, and, with its being thus set as object before it, to be at the same time raised above it, and so to reach a higher stage of its own being.-Encyclopedia Logic section 13
Can’t decide whether AI cultists are more insufferable than crypto cultists>theyrethesamepicture.jpg
>>24971725Supporting Polish independence.
>>24972030what's wrong bb? y u mad?
>>24972018again, you don't know what the problem of induction is. you don't need to invoke the problem of induction to be able to claim that making things happen makes them happen. i already wrote that making things happen makes them happen. it's just that nobody is making the things you want to happen happen, at all, and least of all you. the people with will and spirit are not making communism happen, they are making the opposite of communism happen. sorry.
>>24972043>the people with will and spirit are not making communism happen, they are making the opposite of communism happenOkay, and people with will and spirit are mentally retarded and evil. We don't need them for our movement.
>>24972043it doesn't happen overnight brainlet. hegel speaks of this. it, like the gestation period of the human being, takes place in a hidden womb. what appears as a sudden coming forth from nothing is really the result of prior hidden activity. admit you defeat and cry.
online orgy of stupidity itt
>>24972046>people with will and spirit are mentally retarded and evil. We don't need them for our movement.is this bait?
>>24971730wasnt a problem for marxism to begin with.
>>24972047so when does it happen?
>>24971999So am I
>>24971998>despite being 100% correct about everythinglmaooooo
>>24972019Came here to post this
>>24971725That the proletariat and revolution have anything to do with each other.The fact that not 1 (one) proletariat class rose up is THE fundamental flaw. All others are tertiary weakness. No prole uprisings = mechanism of action as described is false = theory is invalid.Full stop.It is to Marxism what someone building a time machine, going back in time and not finding any man named Yeshua/Jesus living in the Levant performing would be to Christianity. You can have later theories (copes) which are aesthetically similar and borrow terminology, but they are to Marxism (to continue the analogy, because I suspect this is the most profitable route to travel for maximum seethe) what Mormonism is to Christianity.
