Hobbes was fucking evil and fucked up everything prove me wrong.
>>24975183I brought this book to the gym and a guy I talked to about church once came up to me and told me that this book is demonic and he knows this because the holy spirit lives within him.
Hobbes was right. We're individualistic, security seeking, pathetic beings driven by our base needs and desires and we have a poor sense of reason to keep these needs and desires in check.
>this was interestingContrary to tech nihilists who think the end of the nation-state is nigh and we will all live in a post-apocalyptic, techno-feudal hellscape of rival city-states....., Gray posits that Modern states are becoming more powerful and coercive in response to insecurity, crisis, and social fragmentation. For Gray this increase of state power vindicates Hobbes: Fear and the need for order, not progress or reason, ultimately drive political authority. Meliorism is dead. Long live fear.Any other contemporary authors using Hobbes as a reference point?
>>24975183Plato explains why contract theories of justice are stupid and why Hobbesian anthropology is just a picture of the damaged and degenerate soul. Modern thought is mostly people just resurrecting terrible sophistries and actually embracing them, to predictable effect.
>>24975298>is just a picture of the damaged and degenerate soul.lazy ad hominem.
>>24975286Liberalism and capitalism erode all culture and custom, all faith and tradition, so that the state must come in to fill the vacuum, becoming omnipresent in every aspect of life.
>>24975286Not exactly contemporary but picrel
>>24975236Why would you bring a book to the gym?
>>24975307It's literally how he describes humanity. Likewise, Hume's advice that reason ought to be the slave of the passions is simply demonic from the standpoint of ancient and medieval thought, a recipe for slavery. So too, Nietzsche looks inside himself, finds a "congress of wills" (a lack of unity and disorder) and so assumes his own sickness must be endemic to all, then proclaims embracing this sickness to be the highest of virtues.Sorry, Homo oecononimicus and the "state of nature" simply are dismal, degenerate visions of man. It's unsurprising given they are borrowed directly from voluntarist heresies (although today athiests will defend this vision tooth and nail with no inkling of where they come from because they are affirmed by "sciences"—never mind that man as an atomized, self-interested appetite machine is wholly unfalsifiable and can be used to explain literally any behavior at all, from heroism to hedonism, and from sainthood to suicide).
>>24975348oh. you're a christfag
>>24975348Man as the appetite machine (often wed to nominalism) is a recipe for slavery to the passions. Indeed, this is often an explicit goal.
>>24975353So?
>>24975353Plato, Epicetus, Plotinus (and Porphyry, Proclus, Iamblichus, and the whole Ladder of Virtues crowd), Confucius, Al Farabi, Ibn Sina, etc. all agree too bud.
>>24975183Well he was only pointing out the status quo and saying it was right. He didn't invent it. Conservatism is all about capitulation to evil>>24975318State-capitalism (as separate as the two systems are they are intricately intertwined and cannot last without the other) or what they used to call "civilization" erodes cultures. First stealing it, mimicking it, putting it up like a butterfly collection, and then collapsing. "Left" is liberal, pro freedom and creators of culture"Right" is conservatism, pro control and believers in solid unchanging putrid corpses they call civilization.
>>24975508>pro-freedomFreedom to be a slave to whatever passions just so happen to dominate one. It's a demand for a sort of freedom from reality.
Is there not an overlap between hobbesian ideas of human nature and christian ideas of original sin? I mean there must be as the ideas in leviathan were picked up on by realist like Mearsheimer in international relations. And of course people like Mearsheimer were deeply conservative Christians. Hobbes was as near as an atheist as you could be in mid 17th century England.....but does the spark of a priori reasoning in man that leads the savage beast to give up his absolute license to the leviathan, civilisation and culture not have a divine origin? Where does hobbes say it comes from?
>>24975328to read
>>24975236>he knows this because the holy spirit lives within him.I love prots sm
>>24975383That’s like saying Fichte agrees with Kant and two pupils of Fichte agree as well and also three Kant scholars have a similar understanding.
>>24975183this Nigga along with Bacon and Descartes have done untold damage to humanity >>24975307>hyper fixating on the fear of violent death isn’t pandering to the appetitive soul
I can't take any political philosophy seriously that isn't Hobbesian. Power alone truly exists, the entire history of human civilization testifies to this being the case. Everything else is downstream from it or just an illusion, a veil meant to hide the mechanism of power at work. Any moment where you don't explain politics from the perspective of power is a moment where you might as well be arguing about whether Santa Claus exists.
>>24975183He was right, though.
>>24975536>Oh noes! Freedoms means slavery to your senses!>So in fact you should not have freedom cuz it's bad for you. Stay on the kings land and till, my lost son! (Church on Sunday)Has your author even heard of anarchism?
>>24975648He was actually Catholic
>>24975670Would you define power in any specific way other than "present means, to obtain some future apparent Good?"
>>24975763Power is the ability to directly or indirectly compel others to act in accordance with your will.
>>24975784You’re a retard if you think that’s all that matters regarding to political philosophy. Read Strauss.
>>24975790What else would matter and for what reason?
>>24975801Those things called morality, virtue, and the common good.
>>24975236He’s completely correct
>>24975854Morality is the sum of value-judgments held by the elite ruling over a particular milieu or society.There is such a thing as the common good of particular groups, but no such thing as the common good of an entire society.Virtue doesn't exist.
>>24975670The worldview of the slave to sin.
>>24975670>>24975784Ahem.
>>24975909>inb4 "cuck, you're not grinding and making MONEY and getting STATUS and engaging in sterile fornication with harlots like us so you're a loser."
>>24975945The amount of self-worth and effort many men invest in their ability to get harlots to rut with them like brutes is truly astounding. And of course, before fornicating, these licentious harlots always make sure that they are infertile; yet even if they did conceive from such unions they would surely murder the child in the womb. And men build their lives around this sort of validation.
>>24975882Read Strauss + the Greeks. Nothing but the maggotized mindset of a modern you’ve expressed.
>>24975236He's right. After you read Leviathan and really understand what Hobbes was getting at, you will realize it is the same as the sin of Cain and Lamech
>>24975902>posted from: the world
