What are some books on the origins of homosexuality and homosexual inclinations? Pic related was pretty interesting to me, especially for its willingness to discuss biological differences between gay and straight men (lower competitiveness, higher conformity and agreeability, tendency to get on better with female peer group rather than male peer group in childhood)
Judith Butler, Gender Trouble
>>24989068>Reading a 1962 book written by a psychoanalyst. Just read this article instead of a book, it will save you time:Sexual Orientation, Controversy, and Sciencehttps://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1529100616637616
>>24989068>lower competitivenessNot true for most of homosexual population. They're more competitive, the higher agreeability is just to build alliances to bring down the heterosexuals vastly successful than they are.
>>24989383Yes, an adaptation to low status that includes signalling that you're not a conventional threat, precisely to use that perception against your competition for status.
>>24989068no bullshit, are there any books about the causal connection between childhood sexual abuse and homosexuality? preferably with data.
>>24989412You have to research it via context suitable for modern ideology (e.g. homosexual youth being at risk for abuse (victims) instead of homosexuality being caused by abuse).
>>24989068According to Foucault men buttfucking each other historically had no idea they were homosexuals, homosexuality emerges with modern biopolitics
>origins of homosexuality>1918 germany, weimar... homo starts....you want shit like this? you spaz
>>24989779Yes. Men who masturbate compulsively still don't identify primarily as masturbators. It would need an associated pro-masturbation political movement. Masturbator pride marches etc.
My diary desu
>>24989068The only truly good thing I can think that being gay has done for me is it truly makes me empathetic towards other men. I think most straight don’t really feel a love for other men. The notable exception being men who fight together in a war. But for me that’s kind of the default. So much so that I couldn’t even fathom war just for not wanting to kill other men. Of course there are biological differences. Our brains are just wired differently. Autists, polemics, and Christian flat earthers will try to look at data and reverse engineer a “why” but the universe is more complex than their simple brains. Instead you should take the literature route and read stories from gay individuals and instead of trying to understand the “origins” (as if there are any) maybe try to understand the individual.
>>24989730one of my blackpills regarding science was finding out that all signs point to the connection being real but it's off limits for any institutionally backed researcher to study
>>24990059But don’t you like women at all? Don’t you get aroused by seeing them naked?
>>24990077No. Do you get aroused by naked men? Imagine having a male brain for about 95% of things. That’s what being gay is like. The other 5% is a reminder that you’re not like other males.
>>24990088What do you think about the way women treat us? I imagine same-sex relationships must be ‘easier,’ though maybe they aren’t
>>24990094Women have been elevated and heterosexual men are paying the price. Theres never been a worse time to be born a boy. As someone who genuinely like men, I can’t believe how many heterosexual normal women I’ve met who in my opinion don’t really like men but rather seem to use men. In general, I think a lot of women care more about social standing and clout with respect to other women than the man himself. As a society we use to say “trophy wife”, but I think it goes more the other way. Now gay relationships are just as bad and perhaps even more shallow. A lot of gay men take on the worse qualities of women instead of the best qualities of men. As everyone on here know, nobody in real life reads and most people just walk around like zombies staring into their phones. The best hope for anyone is to find someone level and grounded in the real world and try to make your own little home.
>>24990136>A lot of gay men take on the worse qualities of women instead of the best qualities of menI have noticed this, about 80% of gay men I have met are neurotic and wear like a badge of pride the fact they eat antidepressants for lunch and got about 5 different diagnosed mentall illnesses.The 20% left are the most calm and collected men I have met.What do you think of trannies?
>>24990136What you’re saying is very true. Women are all very self-entitled. Even the most average one thinks she’s Helen of Troy. It’s hard to have a partner nowadays, and if you say anything against these attitudes you’re immediately labeled an ‘incel.’ I used to work as a receptionist at a gym where many gay men went, and I remember they were very cruel to each other — very superficial — yet they talked a lot about getting old. I imagine that must be difficult.
>>24990150>yet they talked a lot about getting oldWhat did they say?
>>24990156Things like ‘there’s nothing worse than being a faggot and old’ or ‘when I’m old I’ll have to pay boys to have sex with me’ , they also talked a lot about how it was bad to be ‘gay and ugly’ kek
>>24990059>I think most straight don’t really feel a love for other men.Why would you think dumb shit like this? Since you're a brainwashed gay I have to assume you've been exposed to media in some form, maybe even read some books but you still somehow maintain fantasies like this that aren't consistent with literally anything?
>>24990168What are examples of love you’ve felt for other men?
>>24990059>The only truly good thing I can think that being gay has done for me is it truly makes me empathetic towards other men. I think most straight don’t really feel a love for other men.Do the straight men you know have friends? Males in general are basically more like women nowadays and this explains social life on all levels. Women (and men) respond and respect masculinity but they have to actually be exposed to it, and not its counterfeit.>>24990150>>24990136These women will not be mothers and if they then their children aren't going to reproduce (on average, but it works out). This is all just nature purifying itself of genetic decadence
What is it about gay dudes that makes it impossible for them to have sex normally, or monogamously in general? Degenerate orgies, partner counts in the triple digits being ubiquitous, all the weird fetishes they indulge in...why can't you just do it normally 2-3 times a week like most hetero couples.
>>24990161Probably the group where being ugly won't hurt your odds of "success", but you are never going to find satisfaction in this kind of relationship/lifestyle because its a complete dead end. Exceptions obviously for a kind of Platonic or spiritualized homosexuality but that is certainly not what that world is about
>>24989068>What are some books on the origins of homosexualityThe Illiad
>>24990144I don’t understand transgender…I mean who wouldn’t want their own penis?All joking aside I think it’s a mental/physical disconnect. Their perception of themselves doesn’t match the physical reality. I think of everything as a spectrum. There are male and female physical and mental traits. Sometimes someone is in the middle of the spectrum and so language is not possible of conveying a good label. Think of a ham and cheese sandwhich. Everyone would agree that’s a sandwhich. What about a hotdog or a pita or lunchables…all of these things have sandwhich qualities but they’re not as clear cut as a ham and cheese. That’s how transgender people are. They straddle our linguistic conventions.
>>24990228Do transgenders look mentally sound to you? I don't ask this with the intention of being offensive, I have noticed trans women are a very odd bunch, some of them are fucked up in the head and are into some of the most bizarre shit in an outside the bed, and sometimes they have these fits of testosterone when they suddenly act violent or paranoid.I wonder why this happens
>>24990209First of all, fuck you. Either you get the point or not, this is not a fucking debate.Male friendship, especially between a teacher and student is the purest form of love as the Greeks understood and tried to tell you a thousand times.Love for all life is also normal in healthy societies like the pre-internet world.
>>24990244>Male friendship, especially between a teacher and student is the purest form of love as the Greeks understood and tried to tell you a thousand times.t’s the most gayest thing I’ve read in my life, anon, holy shit. Men can feel empathy for other men because we know what it’s like to be in those situations — the death of a mother or a father, war, a treason, a broken heart, not having anyone to talk to. But that Greek effeminacy… anon, I…
>>24990244>especially between a teacher and student is the purest form of love as the Greeks understood and tried to tell you a thousand times.NTA or gay but have you read plato? This is literally pederastic lol. They avoid sex of course but the contrast with carnal love is still there, so its not wrong to term it homoerotic.>Love for all life is also normal in healthy societies like the pre-internet world.I think anon was talking about the current world so maybe you are agreeing with the point. Male friendship is rare, and often of a superficial nature (because even straight men are a lot like women nowadays)
>>24990244Sorry - I get that straight men are always a little sensitive about being perceived as gay. That wasn’t my intention. I agree that in the past there was a lot more overt friendship and caring and emotional intimacy between men. You can read Whitman or Melville or lots of other things to see that. I think that’s mostly gone today. And honestly even among gay men it can be mostly sexual and nothing else. Even in my comment above I stated the best example is men who fight together in a war. Thats the best and closest example of what I think male love for one another is. It’s all a testament to your point of how shitty our contemporary times are.
>>24990242In general - probably not. Do you think that could be due to the circumstances of being transgender? I always feel the best circumstances is a loving husband and wife a couple kids, steady job, good health etc…. But think how few people get that. For people that are different t and know that they’re different, I can’t see how it doesn’t fuck with your mind. What do you think? Is there a reason for this?
>>24990292>Is there a reason for this?Can't think of anything, sexual abuse? Or maybe trannies are seem as either objects of pleasure or inferior men?
>>24989136>OP asks for the origin of homosexuality>"bro just read this instead">the article: we don't inow the origin lol
>>24990250>But that Greek effeminacyIt's the most masculine thing there is. It has nothing to do with sex and no woman, faggot or (you) has ever experienced anything close.
>>24990253>so its not wrong to term it homoerotic.It's as wrong as pretending our interaction is erotic because I don't pretend to be cold and detached. "Eros" animates my hate for your retardation.
>>24989068I found an old book I have yet to read called "The Intermediate Sex" by Edward Carpenter, publish date 1908. It's about transgenders, but is probably still of note in this context.
Homosexuality as it occurred in aristocratic society is a far cry from the wanton homosexuality of the modern day. Generally it was a more idealistic romance akin to chivalry, where frequently no consummation occurred at all. In the case of Frederick the Great for example, the whole ordeal consisted of hushed quick Romeo and Juliet-style scenes behind closed doors, hours and days of mutual quiet longing, both sides imagining a future where they could be in each other's arms. This romance has its real expression not in corporal acts but in language and art. The high-minded sentiments of the Symposium are nothing but the expression of this love, in fact, and even its main expression.There's a real sort of asexuality at play in the backstories of countless great artists, thinkers, generals, kings, you name it. It's always the same pattern in their biographies -- we have only light evidence of their sexual inclinations, because they were for the most part sublimated into another kind of drive, which was usually romantic.
>>24989068Along with lots of paraphilias, lust-murder and other nasty stuff, the Psychopathia Sexualis has a section that treats ordinary, garden variety male homosexuality. To his credit, Krafft-Ebing sees that they are not (all, necessarily,) evil perverts, and that a good deal of their mental problems derived from the stigma, particularly in turn-of-the-century Europe, which is when he compiled his case studies. In the section, he includes a few anonymous accounts from gay men about how awful their predicament was, particularly in the given culture.
The Homosexual Society - Richard Hauser
>>24990487If it's not sexual it's not a sexuality. Romanticism is not sexual except in the sense that everything is.
>>24990608It's the sexual drive subsumed. If you think sexuality can only be dick into vagina or perhaps dick into asshole you've been basically ruined by materialist modern culture.
>>24990840It's not, retard. Except in the sense that eating food is "sexuality subsumed".
>>24989068These are social differences
Psycopathia Sexualis by Richard von Krafft-Ebing
>>24990244>Either you get the point or not, this is not a fucking debate.>didn't get FagAnon's point>>24990168>>24990212NTA but FagAnon was absolutely right. Most straight men don't have a man in their life that they truly Love to the full extent that platonic/fraternal love can be experienced.The closest that most men get is a father-son or mentor-mentee dynamic but those contain an imbalance: neither can fully See the other because they're not Equals.
>>24989068>book from a literal lifetime agoisn't this supposed to be the Smart board? the single most important piece of context when engaging with scientific literature is its publication date.everything Freud wrote has been systematically dismantled and disproven; he laid the groundwork for Psychoanalysis as a clinical/scientific practice but his actual theories were schizoid dogwater.you will find no contemporary text on "the origins of homosexuality and homosexual inclinations," because people with IQs over 87 know that's an abjectly retarded thing to seek.
>>24990487>Frederick the Great never actually fucked men, because it wasn't written about in contemporary sources that would have looked down on such behaviorlollmao, eventhis retard thinks absence of evidence means evidence of absence.highly likely that Fred was plowing bussy in complete, shameful privacy. that's how it typically goes, even today; see also, Grindr's servers crashing in any city that hosts the Republican National Convention.
>>24991583>neither can fully See the other because they're not Equals.This is retarded and likely induced by schizophrenia. You don't "See" anyone.Most white men grow up having friends they love and romanticize the memory of growing up with them. An older teacher relationship is superior precisely because it's not equal. One side is focused on purely giving and the other on using the gift to grow.I love the apple tree I water and it expresses that love with apples. It doesn't have to consciously participate in my romantic framing of our relationship or "See" my soul or whatever for the love to be mutual.
>>24991588>because people with IQs over 87 know that's an abjectly retarded thing to seek.Educate us retard. You spent all this time on the post but deliberately made sure to say nothing.
>>24991635>This is retarded and likely induced by schizophrenia. You don't "See" anyone.Tragic. I pray that you're too young to be here; it would be exceptionally sad for a grown adult to have such a myopic view of what Love is.To help you on your journey, "Seeing" in this context is a very very old metaphor that has been expounded in poetry for centuries. This is supposed to be the Literature board, so go fucking Read.
>>24991638>quote the exact thesis of my post>"uhm u sed nuffin"I can't educate a degenerate, and refuse to be goaded into trying.
>>24991588>worshipping publication dates instead of content in the age of publish-or-perish
>>24991635
>>24989919Women would shame them for it
>>24991704I understand the metaphor, you Don't. You're an Illiterate Schizophrenic.>>24991707The thesis is that you have some insight hidden to us low iq proles. You spent time making the post but deliberately decided not to give any hint what that insight is. Completely empty post from a completely empty mind.>>24991878Do you think they didn't do that to gays? Women are traditionally the enforcers of social norms. Usually entrenched, old norms instead of whatever the mass media decides is the norm today.
>>24991588>he laid the groundwork for Psychoanalysis as a clinical/scientific practiceWhich is no less schizo. But I guess is a book was published in 2024 instead of 1934 it's better, because people are definitely way more intelligent nowadays
>>24991888Women only enforce that which is convenient for them. Our media is littered with vulgar female imagery they bitch is for men but it empowers them so they continue to promote it because they know its the only thing they have over the (hetero) male.Because homos don't empower women, they will only tolerate those that try to build them up as divas and queens.Nevermind you that the misogynistic homos are the ones pumping out the best quality and intellectual content ever.
>>24990225Also BOM
>>24990219How in the world do you have the intelligence to ask a question like this but can't even see the obvious answer staring at you in the face? Are you people possessed?
>>24989068>Pic related was pretty interesting to me, especially for its willingness to discuss biological differences between gay and straight menCivil rights legislation was predicated on protection of innate characteristics at the time of publishing, so it's unfalsifiable
>>24989068>biological differences between gay and straight men (lower competitiveness, higher conformity and agreeability, tendency to get on better with female peer group rather than male peer group in childhood)If you want to stop reading popsci reddit-slop and actually understand the scholarship, then try this
>>24990275>Whitman or MelvilleThey were gay though, lmao
>>24991888>"You're too fucking dumb to be worth trying to teach">multiple paragraphs of seething and maldinggood to know that I made the right choice.
