This is maybe the most basedwoke book every written. Masculinity grifters could never show this level of love and care towards men and boys.
women do not understand masculinity on a fundamental level
>>24996681>>24996685I bench more than you two combined
>>24996691yeah I bench fuck all honestly
>>24996691How many trees have you planted with that strength? How has it helped you exert your will and shape the world for the betterment of man? How many demons have submitted to your will?
>>24996699>How many demons have submitted to your willI've painted a lot of whores faces with my nut. I like signing my work.
>>24996681>lol we just have to brainwash little boys into being limp pussiesImagine reading black women's literature. They might be the most uninsightful people alive. Let me guess, men don't cry enough? We are raised to be monsters and need megadoses of estrogen?
>>24996700So you're a weak effeminate pussy.
>muh patriarchy hurts men too acktually reeeeeee
>>24996701>reject patriarchy, boys! you should cry more!>oh also by the way we only fuck men who are patriarchal lolzdeeply unserious gender
None of you have read that book.
>>24996742why would I read it
>>24996746Why are you whining about it like you have?
Who cares about masculinity? It's not even real. I don't recall anyone speaking about it up until.... i wanna say around the 19th century. And even then it wasn't like the 21st where people just won't shut up about it.
>>24996711It does. It always has.
>>24996711It does.In China and India there's a surplus of males because parents abort baby girls.This is because in their highly patriarchal societies it's the parents of the bride who have to pay dowry so parents prefer aborting girls and trying for boys to avoid paying.If China and India were matriarchies and the parents of the groom had to pay dowry instead the sex ratio would skew female instead.
>>24996763I empathized with this position when I was 15 but that's because I was an easily brainwashed child. You're an idiot that will fall for any propaganda framing that becomes popular. Anyone who starts out framing anything in these terms can be safely ignored.
>>24996768Men produce wealth and women spend it. You might find this framing reductive and even dishonest but it's still more honest than your mindless propaganda. The pattern arises from immutable biological facts like the fact that the woman will carry the child, it's closer to fundamental biological reality than your deranged anti-human framing made up by murderous marxists specifically to kill white men or whatever.
>>24996701Seeing as she's black its probably going to be masculinity framed in terms of aggression and how to placate it. Haven't you ever seen videos of woke black women talking about how important it is not to subvert or question the masculinity of black men? They have the ideological perspective of battered wives but it's channelled in terms of black liberation nonsense.
>>24996763It's just another attempt by aging harridans to control male development in a way that suits their perverse agenda, and spiritually castrating menA boy taught to cry because its good, grows up to be an incelMeanwhile women will still fuck the guys who spent their youth sharpening their claws, and honing their masculine instinctGive young boys the Iliad.>>24996768The aborting of baby girls is a holdover of a bygone era where people were extremely poor and a baby boy was prized because it meant a worker who could break his back working the field. Nothing to do with "patriarchy", everything to do with the horrible things people are willing to do when they are starving. Reframing this as moral failure of those societies is incredibly egregious
>>24996772>I empathized with this position when I was last humanPoor boy.>>24996812>to control male development>Something only the state should be allowed to do!
>>24996833>to control male development>Something only the state should be allowed to do!The state hates boys too. Boys are naturally restless and aggressive. If they banded together, they are a threat to the current order which is ruled by the crippled old fucksHowever, nothing compares to the sadistic urge from harridans to break the spirit of young menModern schools, filled to the brim with fat ugly teachers who purposefully grade boys lower, are committing institutional child abuse.
>>24996833Not either anons, but your strawmen and moralfagging aren't arguments. Bugman bait at best.
>you have a rapestick instead of a fuckhole so you have to die in a ditch for israel o algoHow do people fall for shit like this
Men are disposable and women aren't but only by the fact they reproduce the next generation. Acting like men are still disposable while women aren't reproducing, and aren't as capable as a man in the workforce no matter how many of their fertile years they devote to trying to be, is a perfect recipe for societal decline.
>>24996871NTA (>>24996845); you not replying to his comment proves he's right. You suck at trolling, bro.
DEI means you should ignore all black people placed in any position of authority. Odds are they didn't get there because of what they offer so there's no reason to waste time listening to them let alone taking them seriously. If one rises above the others and you happen, by chance, to notice they say intelligent things and have insight on offer then go ahead and seek out what else they're saying. Otherwise, ignore them at a glace. This is what the current cultural context implies for anyone with a brain--smart people don't waste time taking stupid people seriously. Simple as.
>>24996879I’m not replying to your comment chain you retarded schizo. Go harass the anon that was actually talking to you.
>>24996879How does pointing out that he was being a strawmanning moralfag prove him right? Why would anyone take seriously fallacious reasoning? You sound like a retarded nigger.
she's probably right, this black woman is
>>24996758>I don't recall anyone speaking about itOh damn, we got an immortal itt
>>24996681Let me guess>the only definitively positive masculine trait is self-sacrifice>men must become more like women>women do not need to change anything about themselvesWomen, I will tell you the true secret of masculinity: a man is whatever the fuck he wants to be at any given time. Man is the oldest word for God.
>>24997423When it's a black woman I stop, I listen, and I learn.
Honestly you all couldn't be further from the truth about this book and the assumptions you are making are VERY revealing to say the least.
>>24997459feel free to post some excerpts
>>24997465"Much of the mass media directed at young male consumers is created by self-hating, emotionally shut down adult men who have only the pornography of violence to share with younger men." - bell hooksMasculinity influencers much? If this doesn't give you chills...
>>24997504is this really a quote? lmao, its like the most generic twitter comment. did AI write this book?
>>24997506You lack conception but it's ok, I forgive you.
>>24997504>chillsThis is too much, the glint of the hook in the bait.
>>24997504aaron mcgruder made a far wiser, less word salad trite commentary on the state of young black men in the 2000s.https://youtu.be/UajTvU3sjrY
>>24997638It's written in very clear English. What are you talking about?>>24997567I'm deadly serious, everyone on this board needs to read this book. It would change them for the better.
literally took half a second of looking at that book cover after reading OP to think "Gay", this probably means I'm slow
>>24997662lol, do you work for the UK government?
>>24997675No I escaped pedoterf island years ago. Besides the British government has little interest in men's spiritual uplifting via basedwoke.>>24997672Your thoughts aren't even your own. This is what patriarchy does to us.
>>24997686nah its pretty gay, what wouldn't be gay is a book on love between men and women
>>24997692The book contains a lot about that.
>>24996685Neither do most men. That's what the patriarchy has done.
>>24997686>I escapedNot spiritually.
>>24996708Takes one to know one
>>24997433She critiques women extensively in this book for emotionally wounding men and upholding patriarchy themselves. Maybe instead of going around battling ghosts of your own imagining you could be open to having your views changed and curious about the world.
>>24997719Clearly I did as I'm willing to take a stand against the patriarchy. What a silly thing to say...
>>24997739None of this is new to anyone. Everyone has heard all this shit you're spewing literally thousands of times over the last 20 years. Every post from you confirms this book is part of the same boring, vapid horseshit.
>>24997739it doesn't actually matter unless women stop being attracted to patriarchal menwhich they won't and they shouldn't
>>24997740And worse of all we all forget how to love.
>>24997750Plenty are. She discusses this.>>24997746If that's true then why is this book so clearly misunderstood by everyone in this thread. Maybe you aren't as all knowing and above it all as you think...
Basedchuds actually engage with a thought that isn't 12 times redigested Evola or James mason challenge status: Epic Fail
>>24997759Excuse me: söychuds
>>24997757>Plenty are.I promise you they are nott. high body count man
>>24997764>Body countSee how you can't even approach love without using the language of violence? I honestly pity you.
>>24997686>terfYou will never be a woman
>>24997813I don't have to be, I'm a man and that's beautiful in and of itself, despite what society would have you believe.
>>24997780love is violencegrow up
>>24997764Whore
>>24996681Ight anon. Due to your repeated earnest ahortations to read the book, I will give it a try. Even though I don't have high hopes. There is a freely availiable pdf online. Starting, I will post the table of contents so people can see what the angle the book is taking.>Preface About Men>1 Wanted: Men Who Love>2 Understanding Patriarchy.>3 Being a Boy.>4 Stopping Male Violence>5 Male Sexual Being>6 Work: What's Love Got to Do with It?>7 Feminist Manhood>8 Popular Culture: Media Masculinity.>9 Healing Male Spirit>10 Reclaiming Male Integrity.>11 Loving MenVague, and not really evocative of revolutionary and original thought. Rather unpromising. But I will skim all the chapters for the sake of honesty.
>>24997849exhortations*
>>24997755You think your rapist caveman ancestors cared about 'love'? Romantic love is an ideological construct, one that is not even that old.
>>24997865I think what makes humans so remarkable is our capacity to love and to change.>>24997829The crazy thing about all of this is that I know you could get better, if only you'd listen.>>24997849It's a straightforward book written in straight forward language.
OP what you don't seem to understand is that jack Donovan and roosh v are the only people to have ever understood men.
>>24997865The book isn't just about romantic love. Read it, you might just learn something
>>24997873The reason I said 'romantic love' specifically is because the word 'love' is so general that it means very little. The 'love' you feel for a family member is a completely different emotion than romantic 'love' for example.
>>24997876I'm sorry you feel that way. I genuinely am.
>>24997849I finished chapter 1. Wishy washy. General point largely aligns with >>24996701. Despite the very generic subject matter (love, that hackneyed word), she gives a very balanced and well considered approach to it, which you could say is innovative in its own way. She criticizes women for not actually wanting men to be open to them, delves a bit onto her perceived psychology of men, focusing mostly on black american because she's black and gives talks to black people. Of course she blames all of this on patriarchy and what such.Somehow well within my expectations are not.
>>24997878Wait, it's written by a black woman lmao
>>24997883Do you seriously not know who bell hooks is?
>>24997885Nope.
>>24997887Well then you've learned something
>>24997893That there's a prog propaganda peddler called Bell Hooks? Yeah exceptionally valuable knowledge, thanks.
>>24997896She died. Also that's a very childish way of putting what she did. You'd benefit from reading this book, you clearly need to get in touch with yourself emotionally.
>>24997878and not*Chapter 2, Patriarchy.Again, paradoxically predictable and also unusually balanced and sober. Patriarchy is based on the denomination of non-men by men through violence, Patriarchy hurts men too, women also complicit in Patriarchy. Patriarchy as a process that needs to be dismantled. Nothing I haven't heard before, I come from an unusually progressive household. My point is that this is nothing particularly innovative; but it is, once again, admirably clear headed and serious. And, admittedly, I'm sure this wasn't old news in 2004. Explains why she uses the word terrorism so much, anyway.
>>24997914Now knowing this book is twenty years old, I can rest assured there is no cringy 'incel' section just around the corner, coiled and ready to pounce.
>>24997914I wasn't about to come on here and recommend the most obtuse book on feminism I could.
>>24996681>book about men and boys>woman authorNyet.
>>24997937Cool 2014 era meme manz you're a real free thinker
>>24997947Everyone knows you're not a real free thinker unless you waste your time and attention consuming enemy propaganda.
>>24997849Chapter 3, about boyhood.Oh boy. This will be one contentious chapter. As a former male child, I will let my opinions seep through this one, so excuse that.The core of this chapter is the emotionality of boys and how it is supposedly denied by patriarchy. There is discussion on how patriarchal behaviour among boys is principally enforced by peers, how women play into this, single mothers. And of course, the precursor to the incel/manosphere panic: Young male rage, this was during the age of columbine; discourse about the war on terror and violent media indoctrinated our boys abounds, including a lenghty section on Harry Potter. The entire chapter is a thoroughly female examination of these issues, in my opinion. Framed through interpersonal relations, emotions, she creates a model of male psychology from a female template, at least when she is not drawing from the work of apolitical researchers. It's also kind of grating that she repeatedly negates traditional masculinity but doesn't even try to give an outline of an alternative one. I assume she does this later, but leaving it completely unaddressed at this stage undermines her claims that she does not wish to feminize boys. She doesn't address the school system privileging female nature over male nature, safetyism, restrictions on activity and transgressive behaviour. As I said, a very female treatment of the topic.Comparing with >>24997433 I will say that in this chapter the later two affirmations are present. She rebuffs the first one, but not at length, like she assumes everyone knows of the secret third thing. The latter assertion is only partially true, women are to change, of course, but usually in ways that shift toward the femenine, or in ways that move them towards more agency and activity.As always, feminists of the time are chastized because of their neglectful attitudes toward the study of men and boys. Very balanced for what it is.>>24997504This quote also comes from this chapter. I find the self-hating descriptor to be quite rich.P.S: This doesn't actually describe Manosphere influencers much at all.
>>24997953>EnemyThe only war here is being fought in your mind.
>>24997970You seriously don't think that describes say, Andrew Tate?
>>24997971Oh well that's a relief. Here I was thinking someone's aggressively redistributing power and money to groups that I don't belong to on a global institutional level. I guess that's just all in my head.
>>24997973Or Sam Hyde?
>>24997975The crazy thing is that it actually is
>>24997970>but usually in ways that shift toward the femenine, or in ways that move them towards more agency and activity.So they must become more feminine by gaining agency, a stereotypically male trait?
>>24997970>It's also kind of grating that she repeatedly negates traditional masculinity but doesn't even try to give an outline of an alternative oneProgs do this constantly - compare something that's working to something that's hypothetically perfect. Except they never really deliver on the latter. Cheap but effective rhetorical trick.
>>24996789>your deranged anti-human framing made up by murderous marxists specifically to kill white menMeds NOW
What feminists call "patriarchy" is just civilization, which they don't really understand because they had no part in its creation. Example: they want men to sacrifice status and role so that women can be "equal" (in their eyes), but this betrays the fact that women have their own status and role in society. If a man allows a woman to assume his role, he is not automatically going to want to assume her vacant role, nor is he even suited for it. The attack on patriarchy shows a profound lack of intelligence, which is why feminism cannot innovate or provide anything of tangible value to a civilization.What has it given the world? Abortion, divorce, low birthrates and a general animosity between the sexes.
>>24997970Anyway, an aside on the topic of myopic treatments of the opposite sex. I think it is an issue with a lot of femnist scholarship. I personally like to sometimes read articles and books from an odd little sub-field called 'Matriarchal studies', populated predominantly by women over the age of fifty; which coincidentally means they would have all been in college during the timeframe when Matriarchy was all the rage in feminist circles.Anyway, in their work, I sometimes wonder if their emphasis on Women-only field teams to these 'matriarchal societies' to investigate does not prevent them from seeing the male standpoint as well they think. Among other problems of perception.I also like to read them because these shrews are very clearly advocating for some things and it is not subtle at all.>>24997973Not really, the self-hatred label is unfalsifiable. And they are selling much more than violence. In Mrs. Hooks' terms, it could be said that the product they sell is Patriarchal Masculinity. Which raises some other issues, like why do boys specifically seek it out on their own when directionless. Of course the framing of patriarchy a priori invalidates any view points to aligning with itself so this is just me masturbating.>>24997979I should have added 'alternatively' next to that or.
>>24996681Full title: The will to change to accommodate women's wishes and desires
>>24997991Further, women assuming the positions of men has had an overwhelmingly negative effect on our civilization. Example: almost 90% of registered psychologists are women. Psychology suffers from the single worst replication crisis of any academic profession, with 2 out of 3 of the most high-profile papers being unable to be replicated. Far from elevating the field, women have completely decimated it.
>>24996699that cum anon that replied is not me, I didn't plant any tree but I helped few people move, like carrying the furniture and washing machine and that kind of stuff
>Women>Understanding men
>>24998001Psychology is just pseudoscience in general, it wasn't any better before women
>>24998008CBT works overwhelmingly well and was invented by a man.
>>24998008Regardless, psychologists still understood empiricism and the scientific method.
>>24998012I think it's a bit of a stretch to say Jung for example was on good terms with the scientific method.
If you mald about this book it's because your poorly socialized and harbor intense psychosexual resentment, thus primed to fall for homosexual grooming psyops such as "looksmaxxing" and "bodybuilding", both activities which were created by gay (probably jewish) perverts to create more objects of sexual attraction, while destroying the male body with experimental surgeries and injections.Difficult to avoid recognizing the pattern of books like this being consumed by upwardly-mobile, college-educated males who skew taller and more aryan while the Andrew Tate style manosphere content is consumed by children and surplus male service industry backwash who are more prone being shamed into buying online courses, gambling services and fake supplements.These are objective observations, I haven't read the book and never will.
>>24998018Jung was an innovator whose ideas are still being discussed to this day, that's more than you can say about every living psychologist.
>>24998011Not a fan of cock and ball torture, but to each their own I guess
>>24998020Dark woke...
I can't believe women ruined the Jewish science of psychology... With their p-hacking...
>>24997997You haven't read it.>>24998003Any other boring details about your life you'd like us to know?
>>24997992I think it's not hard to figure out that the motherless mixed race guy who nevertheless pals about with racists might have a bit of a self esteem issue. Not to mention almost everything else about him.
Pretty funny to see Stiffed by Susan Faludi catch strays in this seeing as it's the book that dechudded me and saved the world from Elliot Rodger 2: kiss me I'm white and violent edition.
>>24998036I don't think about Andrew Tate too much, but that is a fair point, ig. Then again, he seems like a business-like man.
>>24996681A woman has no place lecturing men about masculinity. They literally conceptualize male health as just becoming more female. >You're sad? Sounds like you need extra emotional upkeep, sweaty.That's therapy and counseling in a nutshell. It makes fragile, unstable men detached from their true nature. Men need to be in control of their lives and have a purpose. Women don't need either of those and can't help men with that because they can't even imagine it. They will never face the terror of waking up one day surrounded by love and comforts and that not being enough. That is enough for them. They aren't men.>>24996758There was a time when the role and nature of men/women was considered self-evident. We are so overly psychologized and domesticated now that completely natural things are no longer apparent to us. Even the mention of "natural" probably gets some of you flustered.
>>24998046You haven't read the book and again, are boxing ghosts.
>>24998048Don't care. If it's a woman, it goes in the trash. Feel free to explain how the content of the book doesn't match my description at all, though. :^)
>>24997977His treatment of sweet indigo child Don jolly spoke volumes
>>24998053I have a feeling that for a self proclaimed paragon of masculinity you take a stereotypically feminine approach to rationality. It would be a waste of time, I can't make you learn to love.
>>24998046Ted Kaczynski was trans btw
>>24998056I didn't proclaim I'm anything. I have a feeling that despite confidently claiming the content of the book didn't fit that bill, you won't be explaining how because you know it's accurate.>>24998059Cool.
>>24998066The other guy going through the chapters already did a fairly good job. What you've said isn't accurate at all you Anti-White piece of shit.
>>24998085That's funny, because skimming those posts it looks like it's exactly what I'm describing. I don't even know what to say to you if that's not the case and aren't just shilling. It diagnoses the issues through a completely female lens. Still waiting.>anti-white>hello fellow kids I'm le based 4chan chud>buy the nigger woman book to save EuropaDoes that ever work?
>>24997750>it doesn't actually matter unless women stop being attracted to patriarchal menWomen have no response to this. As crude as this point is, it's the final nail that puts all this crap to restWomen are the footsoldiers of the patriarchy, and they are most aroused by men that display patriarchal traits.
The word for virtue derives from the word virility, or "manly strength". The greeks knew this. They knew there was no real difference between being good and being manly.On the other hand, vice meant anything that others can use to dominate you.This small reframing immediately reveals just how far modern society has gone in completely pacifying the masculine spirit. Celebration of health, vitality, beauty, and heroism is seen as fascism. The left in modern times fundamentally worships the weak, the decrepit, and wishes to spread its state of brokenness into everything like a virus. The only way out is through something radical
>>24998134ACKSHULLY it derives from 'vir' which is Latin for 'man'.
>>24998113The book discussed this at length...>>24998134Take this tired shit back to the BAP thread on salo in 2018 bub
>>24998031he specifically asked
>>24998107You are obtuse and lack all conception.
>>24998031how is helping strenghily inferior people boring
>>24998175No he didn't.
>>24998177Pigslimian turn of phrase...
>>24998107Have you even read siege?
>>24998172Wrong. It comes from "virtus", which means manly strength.
>>24998107hey, give him some credit. it may work on the third-worldist simps among the right. then they really will be progressives rather merely ideologically confused.
>>24998183 Wrong. It derives from 'vir' which is Latin for 'man'.
>>24998184Oh I see. Next year in Jerusalem!
>>24998185Wrong.
>>24998189You're so fucked kid.
>>24998193Wrong.
>>24998197*Gives you a prostate orgasm*
>>24996691>>24996700you have a cartoonish view of what being a man is>>24996763>>24996833exactly, that's why we should destroy patriarchy and replace in with male supremacy.
>>24998176Your thread has failed.
This one's ok but I prefer her other books For My Legionaries and Imperium.
>>24998224How has it? People are reading bell hooks. And being pleasantly surprised to boot.
>>24998224Listen up rabbi, you can't stop Dark Woke.
>>24998254They're pleasantly surprised that she isn't quite as obnoxious as the typical negress
>>24998254>>24998708She comes from a time of 90s optimism that's outdated. Progressives then believed that the past wounds of bigotry can be healed and we can move on.Today, progressives endlessly beat down on people who are born with the original sin, whether that's being born white, being born man, whatever, it is something that you'll have to do penance for, for the rest of your life.You cannot afford to give these people a single inch. They'll take it, turn around and beat you into submission with it. You'll be labelled evil for pointing out obvious realities like how women are attracted to patriarchal men more than anything.
>>24996839No, they value them as labor and cannon fodder. This is why the feed them masculine narratives, but mostly duty and patriotism, and to never question their authority. >I don't like my teacher cuz she's fat and uglyPoor poor idiot boy. >>24996845That isn't a strawman. You just aren't smart.>>24998222Just end it by taking centralized powers away, state-capitalism.That would heal the rift between men and women. Real "superiority" doesn't need to beat or hate on women. They'll understand their strengths and weaknesses and be fine with a woman who does her best
>>24998753You seem like someone who got stuffed in many lockers and have a permanent chip on your shoulder
>>24998796>A "jock" has appeared to add nothing to the conversation.
>>24998753>Real "superiority" doesn't need to beat or hate on women. They'll understand their strengths and weaknesses and be fine with a woman who does her bestdumb, just make all foids illiterate slaves
>>24998815>And break their legs so you can catch em easy>and cut their tongues out so they can't talk back>make sure to get a spare in case you punch em too hardzYou are the weakest dumbest male on the board atm."Foids"
>>24996681Masculinity is just centrifugal divergence. Easy peesy. Anything else is just word salad.
>>24998831weakness is good in moderation, and bad in excess and deficiency. of course your precious "free spirit" dilettante couldn't comprehend that so there are only the weak and the strong as absolutes
>>24997829>love is violence grow upIs this nigger serious?
>>24998849>weakness is goodBench 1rm?
>>24998849Everything in this post confirmed just how stupid you are. Better hold off on posting for a few years. Hit the books.
>>24998873>>24998880walk the middle path. neither lift weights nor be a cripple
>>24998901Thats not the middle way. Might as well be a crumb
>>24998849>>24998901That's just a really bad reading of aristotle. Buddy, trust me, you aren't half as clever as you think you are.
>>24998909yes it is. it's the middle path between excess and deficiency. unlike nietzsche's sperging over last men and ubermensch with swooning damsels (the only two possible options)
>>24998912>That's just a really bad reading of aristotle.it's a normal reading of a concept that comes up in many other places, most notably in buddhism. of course you, a philistine, is only aware of aristotle's mangled version tucked away inbetween maths nonsense
>>24998913>Regular exercise is excessiveLMAO, you're 100% some skinnyfat weakling. Bell Hooks has more testosterone than you.
>>24998973weightlifting is, in fact, excessive unless you're some greek homo who needs to fight in a phalanx
>>24998979Please describe what non-excessive exercise looks like.>inb4 10 minute walk every day
>>24998991walking 4 minutes every day
>>24998753"A straw man argument is a logical fallacy where an opponent's position is misrepresented as a distorted, exaggerated, or oversimplified version of their actual argument, making it easier to attack." You've been doing strawmaning this whole thread retard. Saying that the former anon emphasized with your gay position when he was "human" (whatever that means), and the latter anon as the state can only control male development when they never said that is a complete misrepresentation. (Also funny how you didn't deny being a moralfag)Again, you are either a gay retarded nigger, baiting or both.
>>24996681>loved men>never married>cared about kids>never had themok
>>24999392"Human" as in not inhuman. Something deranged broken male anons promote. >Again, you are either a gay retarded nigger, baiting or both.None of those.
>>24996681Man are superior to women.
>>24998979True, and worst of all it's for rapidly ageing millenials who want young men to develop BIG BUTTS and back issues.
It's quite funny that thanks to o9a insight role hijinks in 2014 you now have a whole cadre of angry bitter 30 something cringelennials on 4chan fronting like these so called tough guys were posting that feel when not too long ago...
>>25000085*Weren't posting
Suppressing men's feelings is bad? What if my feelings tell me to be stoic because I just like it more huh? Is she going to invalidate my views by telling me I got brainwashed by patriarchy? But I thought invalidating boys' feelings is what caused toxic masculinity in the first place?
>>24997970Chapter 4. Male violence.What it says on the tin. About men and violence, starting with an exploration of how men become willing to do violence. As always a fairly balanced treatment of the subject, relative to her standpoint. Women are not inherently less violent than men, men trying to seek alternative paths to this are not exactly well regarded, etc. Though I object to this unaddressed assumption that violence is inherently uncharacteristic to humans but inherent to patriarchy (and also imperialism, white supremacist, etc) that pervades the whole chapter. She gives a lot of anecdotes about her childhood, her abusive father. I have to say, Patriarchy is a bit of a spook to Mrs. Hooks: an all encompassing, all embracing monster to which all issues can be tied to. It also handily relieves women from any criticism beyond them being compliant with and adhering to the logic of this system. Femininity is exonerated, so to speak.I think a modern analytic treatment of Women from the outside is sorely missed today. The closest that I have found are pieces incel literature (that to their credit delves very deep into women, but are limited by their nature), and a very funny book by a Nigerian man that is also shallow but for very different reasons; a two hundred page long piece of drunk uncle insight, if you get what I mean.
>>25000184Chapter 5. Male sexuality.I have never had it so I'm skipping this one. If you have been reading my reviews you can probably intuit what the chapter is about anyway. Domination dynamics, patriarchy.
>>25000193Chapter 6. WorkI have never been a fan of slavery. But I will do this one because I feel bad skipping two in a row. This chapter is about how work is tied to masculinity and patriarchy, and how the conditions of capitalism undermine that. How men already hated labor before entry of women into labor-force. No treatment of labor relations outside the first world or even before 1900. How male self-esteem is tied to work and being a provider. And a lot about emotions. Lots of shit about class and race. But I have to highlight this quote >If men followed this example and used theworkplace as a setting to practice relational skills, building community, themale crisis around work could be addressed more effectively.Experts are calling it the most female thought of all time.
>>24997899If you're being serious, I hope you're not confusing this level of patronising retardation with emotive insight. A lot of you cunts do.
>>25000193This is the most insightful chapter of them all.
>>25000110Your feelings are socially mediated that's the whole point...>>25000257Lowkirkuenly seek help, you are animated by rage.
>>24999453She lived for years with male partners.
>>25000184I don't think she's saying that violence in uncharacteristic to humans, her quote from the Masai warrior would refute that. She's saying that defaulting to violence and domination, when other solutions are possible is learned. I believe sociological work bears this out.
>>24999493Vague as fuck and stinks of morality. Retarded.
Kind of funny that men exist that scoff at the idea or even take pity on me for weightlifting. It was one of the best decisions I've ever made, and some anon probably thinks he is above it. Very funny.
>>25000477Let's get a look at that ass hon
>>25000477That's really fucking based and interesting and unusual and I think we'd all love to hear more about it.
Kind of funny that men exist that scoff at the idea or even take pity on me for having rough trade gay sex. It was one of the best decisions I've ever made, and some anon probably thinks he is above it. Very funny.
>>25000297Are you invalidating my feelings chud? Now I will suppress my emotions and it will manifest as a deep compulsion to beat women.
>>25000508I know one bear hug from me could fix you...
>>25000477It was just one retard.
>>25000518Wrong.
>>25000292I have never had sex in my life. It's not my fault I'm a truecel.>>25000302Well fair enough. I'm skimming, after all.
>>25000694No it's the fault of patriarchy unironically.
>>25000184>men become willing to do violenceThis is what I mean when I say women have to be ignored on this subject. They only process things through a feminine lens and only ever understand male nature as dysfunctional female nature. Most women will nebulously claim that there are differences between men and women, but anytime those differences inconvenience or confuse them, anytime specific examples of our differences are brought up, they ultimately chalk these differences up to foolish conditioning. Men are different in theory to women, but in practice they must be conditioned out of any meaningful differences. Despite not empathizing with male nature at all, women get very opinionated about male nature because they must constantly appeal to it for their own survival. Unable to identify with us, but still needing to get into our heads for their own purposes, women instead compulsively feminize men (even to their own detriment) under the assumption our differences are just the product of conditioning. Anyone who's raised children and hadn't had their head straight up their own ass knows this is bullshit. With no direction whatsoever boys skew naturally toward conflict. They seek out weapons and fighting and competition. Even the boys that aren't as assertive or want to explore imagination more deeply aren't reading books and playing video games about tea parties, they're exploring conflict. Women have violent outbursts, but men have a baseline interest in violence and a willingness to commit it when necessary. There's nothing wrong with that. It makes them the more capable sex. The men who pretend to not understand this are always just pussies trying to flip the script so guys who don't cry as often as them and aren't afraid of conflict are the real maladjusted sissies. It's delusion. Imagine looking at the male form and thinking it's just a female who can open pickle jars. That's what women do. That's what pussy men do.
>>25000716Didn't read the book award.
>>25000787>This book seems like it's just about sucking dick.>How do you know that if you haven't read it? Maybe it would surprise you.>It's written by a dick sucker. Tell me what's in it to prove it's not about sucking dick.>I cant, read the summary someone else posted of it.>It says chapter 1 is about sucking, chapter 2 is about spit management, and chapter 3 is about the balls. This book is clearly about sucking dick.>But you didn't read it!
>>25000857Simple insults for a simple mind, embarrassing.
>>25000861What's the insult?
>>25000715In this case I feel like the conclusion predated the reasoning.>>25000716I think you may be speaking a little too hastily here. The next chapter I'm going to cover is about a 'feminist masculinity' which attempts to outline a maleness that isn't patriarchal. And anyway, you shouldn't repudiate these female treatments of maleness a priori, an outsider standpoint is very useful to understand certain things, even if only an insider can truly understand the inner workings. That said, it is very hard for people of any gender to truly get over themselves and consider things without using their condition as a template, so you have to take a critical eye to any work of this type.
>>25000864I would never suck dick as it's patriarchal.
>ummm ya'll should stop bein' so vi-o-lentProfound
ITT: horseshoes circling a creek that heads north
>>25000890>feminist masculinity >maleness that isn't patriarchalYou already gave her understanding of patriarchy and (like I've been saying) it's just academic womanspeak. Men should be softer and not in charge, except when we need them hard and I don't want to be in charge of something. They should enforce the standards that protect me, but any expectations or standards they have in return are violence. Feminize or you're toxic, but I'll be diplomatic and let you keep the parts of your nature that convenience me, when they do. See, I understand you guys, too!>an outsider standpoint is very useful to understand certain thingsI've found that the small gain you get from hearing out possibly rational perspectives from women on some subjects will never make up for even a fraction of the damage you get waiting for an outlier to stumble onto the special female podium. I lose nothing by dismissing them all. It's also just frankly not their place.
>>25000311>stinks of moralityThe two faces of the young rightiods. We have one thread pushing the old "atheists don't feel morality" and now this guy saying "morality is bad actually!"Buttfuckers
>>25000890Chapter 7. The chapter where she starts to build something, Yipee! The chapter begins with a discussion of feminism: Male aversion to feminism is blamed mostly on its portrayal by mass media, feminist's unwillingness to reach out across the aisle and theorical sluggishness when dealing with this issue. Regardless, she affirms that only feminism can truly heal men; laments lack of availiable resources to men. Following this she criticizes the failures of previous feminist outreach, relating it to the myopia of the suffragettes regarding less advantaged women. Ther eis quote which I think is worth highlighting.> ... so was it simplistic to imagine that the liberated man would simply become a woman in drag. Yet this was the model of freedom offered men by mainstream feminist thought. Men were expected to hold on to the ideas about strength and providing for others that were a part of patriarchal thought, while dropping their investment in domination and adding an investment in emotional growth. This vision of feminist masculinity was so fraught with contradictions, it was impossible to realize.I think this answers a lot of criticisms given in this thread, and is, at least to me, evidence that for all the book's shortcomings, it was a very earnest and effortful attempt to understand men.From here she says how this turned most sympathetic men away and led them to the men's movement, which she critiques for essentially upholding most patriarchal norms (albeit laundered through a new age filter) and omitting to critique patriarchy in general. She continues with more set up about how the masculine does not inherently equal patriarchal masculinity (intrinsically tied to domination), and that a way to start would be by disabusing men of the notion they have to 'give up' their masculinity, and instead allow it to be transformed.Then comes the section about domination. Domination is not painted as something intrinsic in human nature, but instead an imposition by patriarchy. She is clear: Power-struggles are not effective and the seeking of external power is an outdated modality, for this claim she cites 'modern-day seers' and a book called 'The Heart of the Soul' which is really dissapointing because beside this and a few other instances she was citing actual books with real research rather than pseudo-spiritist self-help. In short, domination undergirds patriarchy, and to construct an alternative masculinity you first have to do away with domination and conflict as driver of social interactions. The alternative?>To offer men a different way of being, we must first replace the dominator model with a partnership model that sees interbeing and interdependency as the organic relationship of all living beings. >In a partnership model male identity, like its female counterpart, would be centered around the notion of an essential goodness that is inherently relationally oriented.Very female, of course. Generic, too. (1/2) cont.
>>25001076wtf essential goodness how very female and generic real men think people = shit
>>24996681Why should this be read instead of a book by a scientist for example? We can learn about human nature, masculinity and so on through the lens of science and not some political ideology. I'm sure books Sapolsky, Plomin, Dawkins, Pinker, etc., would be a lot more useful and factual of course.
>>25001137Because this book is interested with practices, not processes.
>>25001164Science covers the whole thing. Theory and practice. An overview of the system and the details involved. We don't need to turn to political commentators to understand this.But since you've read it. What exactly does she propose as an alternative? What's the alternative masculinity?
>>25001194At least bell hooks is honest and upfront about her moral theology. The epstienites you mention launder theirs through the supposed neutrality of white male cis-hetero normative patriarchal söyience.https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~brecht/Postman-SSMT_CO_1988.pdf
>>25001137Because masculinity is also culturally determined?
Exactly I don't need some tricknological evolutionary jibber jabber from these guys justifying why it's actually totally normal to have sex with children on airplanes because cavemen did it. Misapprehension of what science can do.
>>25001203So she offers no alternative? Got it. One thing you can always rely on is /lit/ telling you what NOT to read. But I'll read that Postman essay when I get a chance. Thanks for that at least. >>25001213Males have been dominating females since the dawn of time and you think it's because of culture?
>>25001227This is a book of cultural analysis, not 12 simple rules for fucking my daughter while I'm in a benzo coma.
>>25001227I think there's a cultural component to it, yes. But the book is also about masculine culture more broadly.
>>25001076>I think this answers a lot of criticisms given in this threadAddresses how? She acknowledges the problem where feminists feminize men and then does it all over herself.>it was a very earnest and effortful attempt to understand menAnd it's all for nothing because she processes it as a female, a feminist at that, and that warps her interpretation.>we must first replace the dominator model with a partnership model that sees interbeing and interdependency as the organic relationship of all living beings.Feminists say shit like this because they maintain a willful ignorance of everything. They have no idea that this is exactly what they opposed.>Honey, I want a partnership.>Okay, how about I use my strengths to defend us and fix things and work all day to provide while you use your strengths to keep the house tidy, watch the kids, and make meals?>NO, NOT LIKE THAT. I MEAN WE SHOULD BOTH WORK AND HAVE NO TIME FOR KIDS, DIVIDE UP CHORES EQUALLY SO THERE ARE NO CLEAR ROLES AND NEITHER OF US FEELS ROMANTICALLY INDEBTED TO THE OTHER, AND ALL SO I'M NOT ATTRACTED RO YOU ANYMORE BECAUSE YOU AREN'T MY PROVIDER.>>25001194Science describes. Science can't tell you what the best way to handle a situation is. You have to approach the info with your own values to interpret what to do with it. That's the point of literally everything that isn't science.>>25001231So you're saying that somebody fucking your daughter is a slight against you? Scoring, dominating? That's pretty patriarchal and not so heckin wholesome of you.
>>25001049I will indulge in another quote, because it illustrates this feminist masculinity much better than I ever could.>In The Courage to Raise Good Men, Olga Silverstein stresses the need to redefine male sex roles in ways that break with sexist norms. Currently, sexist definitions of male roles insist on defining maleness in relationship to winning, oneupmanship, domination: “Until we are willing to question many of the specifics of the male sex role, including most of the seven norms and stereotypes that psychologist Robert Levant names in a listing of its chief constituents—‘avoiding femininity, restrictive emotionality, seeking achievement and status, self-reliance, aggression, homophobia, and nonrelational attitudes toward sexuality’—we are going to deny men their full humanity. Feminist masculinity would have as its chief constituents integrity, self-love, emotional awareness, assertiveness, and relational skill, including the capacity to be empathic, autonomous, and connected.”>The core of feminist masculinity is a commitment to gender equality and mutuality as crucial to interbeing and partnership in the creating and sustaining of life. Such a commitment always privileges nonviolent action over violence, peace over war, life over death.I think it's undeniable that she believed in the feminization of men, even if only subconsciously. This is an outline of the type of society most women would find ideal, in their inmost hearts. Though stances of the lack of violence may vary. To put it another way, men need to be>“empathic and strong, autonomous and connected, responsible to self, to family and friends, and to society, and capable of understanding how those responsibilities are, ultimately, inseparable.”Which I don't understand how that is different from the previously critiqued feminist alternative to masculinity. Apart from its as of yet undefinied lack of patriarchality. Silverstein refutes the idea that men of this ideal disposition of theirs couldn't survive in the world by responding that current men have a hard time surving right now! Lots end up dead, in jail, with cancer because of sustained tobacco abuse, alcoholism. Using the Maasai quote OP talked about, the author refutes that these men would be incapable of using violence. ANother self indulgent quote to cap it off:>We see that females who are raised with the traits any person of integrity embodies can act with tenderness, with assertiveness, and with aggression if and when aggression is needed.Women are clearly the template here, in my opinion.The discussion follows along to to the loneliness of mean, no man is island, they crave connection and nurture. Communitarian inter-conectivity is presumed as the default state and any deviations as patriarchal imposition. The next few paragraphs are hopeful musings bout youger and older men that haven't really gone anywhere, twenty two years after.
>>25001089It is better to have a clear mind. But beside that. The overbearingly female part is the extreme focus on relationships. If you squint a little, you will realize she spends this book talking almost exclusively about subjects and inter-personal relations. Not much said about objects, at least until the end of chapter 7.>>25001216With all due respect, this post has very little to do with anything outside your own head.>>25001263I was being a little Naïve. I try to always assume the best when arguing.
Again some chud waltzes in and starts arguing with phantoms and ghosts and HASNT DONE THE READING.
>>25001311I'm saying essentially the same thing and I am reviewing the book chapter by chapter.
>>25001271>I think it's undeniable that she believed in the feminization of men, even if only subconsciously.This is completely deniable. I think you are extremely motivated to find this in the text.
>>25001315No you aren't.
>>25001263>Science describes. Science can't tell you what the best way to handle a situation isScience simply is. It doesn't tell you how to handle a situation or the 'why' factor because it's irrelevant. It's only concern is reproducibility.Bell Hooks herself doesn't offer an alternative or how to best handle a situation. Which is the whole point. Why even bring up this political commentator if she can't come up with an alternative? When I asked what is her alternative all I got schizo replies like these:>>25001203>epstienites>white male cis-hetero normative patriarchal söyience>>25001231>12 simple rules for fucking my daughter while I'm in a benzo coma>>25001271>>In The Courage to Raise Good Men, Olga SilversteinOk now here's a writer who seems to have ACTUAL actionable alternatives. I'll have to read it.
>>24996681who cares bro
>>25001316I think we just have different understandings of the world. I believe there are intrinsic and hard differences separating the way men and women think and behave while maybe she doesn't. I also don't believe in inherent good or bad; or that relationships are trend toward conflict and or harmony. The sexes are somewhat synergetic but only to a point. >>25001332I skipped one. Because I quite literally have no frame of reference.>>25001365It's in the internet archive. And you can probably find it libgen or Anna's archive.
>>25001311See: >>25000857
>>24996691But I'm the better grappler. So ultimately I would still rape you.
Recent events just show how completely motivated by sexual resentment the Anti-Woke=Anti-White maga right are.
>>25001423She discusses that in the last chapter. Something about inequality not necessarily leading to violence and inability to love or something I don't have the book in front of me. I don't think anything in this book requires you to believe men and women can or indeed should be or think exactly alike.
>>25001365It's a call to arms, not a comprehensive step by step guide.>>25001455
>>25001455Yeah that was written by someone who clearly hasn't read a single word of bell hook's
>>25000299>In The Will to Change, bell hooks gets to the heart of the matter and shows men how to express the emotions that are a fundamental part of who they are -- whatever their age, marital status, ethnicity, or sexual orientation.>Regarding her sexual identity, hooks described herself as "queer-pas-gay">During an interview with Abigail Bereola in 2017, hooks revealed to Bereola that she was single while they discussed her love life. During the interview, hooks told Bereola, "I don't have a partner. I've been celibate for 17 years. I would love to have a partner, but I don't think my life is less meaningful."Nice try anon.
>>25003295Ad hominem, is that really the best you can do? Embarrassing.
>>25003526Fucking hell just let the thread die already. A lesbian's critique of masculinity is what you're advocating for. That's what's embarrassing here.
>>25003541>OUCH! Stop berating my modernist artifiçe of masculinity!
>>25003295she doesn't even like men? how the hell can she claim to speak for them then? i guess dykes are more masculine than normal women granted, but it's not in a good way what with all the wife beating.
>>25000857i dunno who keeps shilling these dogshit jew/gay/communist/feminist books all the time, but the threads all follow this exact script
>>25001076>it was a very earnest and effortful attempt to understand meni agree, but she still failed
>>25003656She loves men and lived with them.>>25003541It's not a critique of masculinity jesus Christ read a book for once.
>>25003659You are illiterate. I don't know how you find yourself on this website, maybe someone on r/TheDonald told you it was based, but you are in the wrong place.
>>25003787>She loves men and lived with them.Kek you keep repeating the same line yet this is a woman who said she's a lesbian. Give it a rest already.
>>25003280I think you should reevaluate your approach if everything you think about me goes to shit if I were, hypothetically, a happily married man with three children and two meaningful careers. You, meanwhile, can be a miserable crypto-commie pussy in any station and my theory of retard would still work on you. I also haven't given you permission to think about my dick as much as you apparently do. I don't appreciate that.>>25003541I'd say this was a marketing thread because this level of coy feminist bullshit is anomalous even for /lit/, but it'd be the first time I've seen something like this have actual paid shilling.>>25003659Or maybe I'm just not opening those threads.>>25003792But then shit like this makes me feel like it's some kind of deliberate Discord tranny outreach thing.>Hey, fellow based racists! Did you know being le masculine is acktulee Reddit af? Check out this book, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised! This is the true power of... DARK WOKE.
>>24996715She overcame the limits of her gender when she admitted that.
>>25003280Apologies, I misread your post. Ignore my reply.
>>25003839I can hook you up with a paid posting job with the estate of bell hooks if you want. You need to have spent your youth on iron march and /new/ though.
>>25003854These guys get serious psycho sexual updoots from seeing white women get killed. Unironically if that man had read some J Sakai (next time I get bored prepare yourself for the ba$ed thread on this one) and bell hooks maybe he wouldn't be a white geNOcidaire in both meanings of the phrase.
>>25003839this whole "dark woke" meme was already a thing on frog twitter years ago and it was a lot funnier there. there were shitposts about the wef funding sub-saharan african genocide by promoting sodomy and feminism.
The truth is that the civilized man is already not a patriarch, even if patriarchal forms superficially remain, and he is subject to femininity. The project of developing the "feminist man" is dead on arrival because all of its target audience are already feminists by virtue of this fact, the very idea is therefore out of scope.One major distinction between men and women is their reliance on physical or social capital, respectively. The woman nags and shames to rally social forces in her favor because she cannot physically dominate a given man, and the man is defeated little by little if he cannot assert himself through his own physical violence. Any triumph of collective social power over individual physical power is a triumph of femininity. There is no *meaningful* difference between a woman henpecking her husband and an army of Roman manlets overwhelming bare-chested Celtic warriors through numbers and formations.Social obligations of propriety, responsibility and duty are inseparable from the enslavement of men, which is why women's rights are primarily given up to them by men feeling bad for their daughters, and why there's a specifically British faggot spending an entire thread trying to convince us that his oversocialized angloid mental illness obligates us to spend any time on the dysgenic queer black goblin he's shilling
>>25004353First of all I'm Filipino and secondly you didn't read nor understand anything about the book or this thread.
>>25004180No it wasn't it's a reaction to mamdani. Find a single reference to dark woke prior to that, I dare you.
>>25004353This is just warmed of Esther Vilar mixed with some tired evopysch nonsense. A complete dead end.
>>25004353At least in Britain the police aren't actively engaged in white genocide pal
>>24996768that's not the "global patriarchy" thats due to them being non-sentient bug races
>>24996681Why does this nappy-headed ho spell her name in lowercase?
>>25005376Humility, something you could stand to learn about
>>25005370Patriarchy is a feature of being a bug race, despite what Camille Paglia would have you believe.
>>25005378I shant
>>25005346well that's not what it was called because it wasn't serious by its nature. all i wanna know is who is this supposed to appeal to exactly? saying you care for the kulaks too pisses the progressives off, and caring in a notably very progressive way pisses the nationalists off.
>>25005370Patriarchal behavior makes them abhorrent "bug people"Your not seeing this makes you non-sentient and just as much a bug. Work on that.
>>24996699How many fun facts have you learned?
>>25000184>and a very funny book by a Nigerian man that is also shallow but for very different reasons; a two hundred page long piece of drunk uncle insight, if you get what I mean.I need the name
The biggest, most fundamental problem with feminist theory is that the female sex is the ultimate enforcer of what feminists would call the patriarchy. Most guys would have no problem abandoning their ""traditional"" patriarchal masculinity... if it got them pussy. However in the real world failure to display strength, dominance or confidence means you are much less attractive to female partners, women are fundamentally incapable of appreciating a man who is weaker, shorter or poorer than them, whereas the opposite is not true. There might be exceptions, but these are very rare, and they are very rare for a reason, and that being that our sexual selection criteria are instinctual and genetic to a large extent. This is obviously not anyone's fault, nobody chooses their nature, but that means it can't really be fixed.
>>25000297>Lowkirkuenly
>>25006834This could be easily fixed by men ceassing to hold "that which makes a foid's cunt wet" as the regulator for their entire personality and behavior.But you won't, will you, little moid? To receive sexual validation from your queens is way too important isn't it? Subhuman retard.
>>25006871the only thing a woman truly can keep from a man is sex, even without all the retarded relationship laws that will always be true until she's married off. unless you're advocating for literal rape here...
>>25006877>unless you're advocating for literal rape hereI am.
>>25006871I know this is bait, but there are people who earnestly think like this, which is grim to think about. This is like saying: "this could easily be fixed by women ceasing to hold men's domineering behaviour as sexually attractive". As I already said, nobody chooses their nature.
>>25006880this man is fat, ugly, bald, and wields terrifying sexual powers
>>24998020personally I think even the ugliest men should be able to get at least top-tier Beckies. I wrote an essay on it too. its in volume 3 of my collected works I think.
>>25001049its discursive rhetoric. we learned it from you, leftie. go read your Foucault.
>>25001137Saplosky is the devil incarnate.
>>25001076Chapter 8. Media making are keedz violent n'shiet.Second wave femnism failed to uproot patriarchal norms, as domestic violence intensified conditions on the ground precluded the realization of patriarchal assumptions. Mass media helped condition this violence. Lengthy discussion about the Incredible hulk and how it's also racist aswell as sexist. I have the good fortune of residing outside the Manichean world of the United States of America, wherein only exist the categories of White Man and Nigger so I will not be discussing the topic further. Then she goes on to cover Gangsta rap. How the violent man is portrayed as aberrant by the media but that isn't true. Something about a serial killer, many remarks on everyone involved being a white male. Lots of movie references.Meh chapter. >>25006773Anatomy of female power by Chinweizu.
thoufht this was bs but the ICE shooting makes me thing maybe she has a point
>>24996691BASED
>>25008489Cool frog meme, shadilay!
