>Be told to start with the Greeks all the time>Finally do it and decide to read the Iliad >More than half of it is useless filler garbage filled with passages like "And then brave Adrolopius (guy who you never heard of before and will never hear again) stabbed the stallion-breaking Monolius (another guy that will never get mentioned after this paragraph.) His spear tip pierced the nipple, crushed the bone and splattered out his heart out his back in an explosion of gore, and darkness misted his eyes. He used to be a farmer, back in his homeland of Whothefuckcares, and his sleek-footed mother will never hug her son again, how sad. >And this just goes on and on and on, page after page, with little nuggets of story thrown in, sometimes, and it's mostly just Zeus talking shit to other gods, or literal divine intervention turning the battle this way or that wayHow the fuck is this literature? Most shit I can find on royalroad or ao3 nowadays, written by literal teenagers, is better than this garbage
filtered
>>25001671Lmao compare it to the action scenes in the bible that were written a couple hundred years after. Homer completely washes those desert fucks
>>25001683Explain yourself. How am I filtered? Maybe this shit was cool back in the days where you had to wipe your ass by hand, and fucking your cousin was the best entertainment you could get, but even romantasy slop is better written than this.
Too late, Christchud. This is an Iliad board now.
>>25001671>muh plotFiltered.>>25001700And coping. You had one chance, back to /vg/ or /tv/ with you.
Homer was the Michael Bay of the ancients
>>25001754You only accept this amateurish writing because you've been told your entire life that Homer is some kind of literary genius. You don't even think with your own brain, so maybe you're the one who got filtered, in your case by life. Seriously, if you tried to publish a book filled to the birm with mind-numbing repetition, animal similes (and only animal ones, every time) and characters who exist for a paragraph and then fucking die, before they get looted IN THE MIDDLE OF FUCKING COMBAT; you'd be laughed out of every publishing establishment.
>>25001671consume marvel slop
>>25001671>man who transcribed oral tradition>hackWhat's next? Gilgamesh's author was a hack? The authors of the Twelve Tables was a hack? Hesiod was a hack? You're going so far back in time that there was barely literature to compare it to and it functioned as a national pastime for a whole group of people!
>>25001754>>25001790Also fuck you, I like reading, just not this primitive garbage you people apparently enjoy.
>>25001787>amateurish writingBecause of battle scenes and animal similes? And the animal similes actually aren't the only ones he uses retard. Is this just bait?
>>25001806Battle scenes only matter to the reader, because he cares about the characters participating in the said battle-scene. I don't mind it when battle scenes happen to important people, but most of the space is taken up by literally who. Animal similes are also too prevalent, because every other paragraph he's comparing this guy to a wild pig feasting on feces, or that army to a shitless Shepard that is running away from a glistening lion that is running away, leaving his sheep behind, after Zeus made him soil his toga.
>>25001671>anonlet doesn't understand a classic literary work, thread #913949135931251341353
>>25001822Every battle scene features an important character regardless of if you think the one who dies is relevant, and Homer employs epic similes involving waves, thunder, fire, and more, each of them objectively well-written and imaginative. I think he was probably less concerned with how some guy thousands of years later might demand more variety, instead focusing on conveying the scale and power of the events he was imagining.
>>25001671You just started with the wrong greeks. Homer is really difficult and not for everybody, mainly for non readers, anon. Start with some Plato's dialogues and you will be fine.
>>25001929That’s horrifically stupid advice and I’m not sure if you’re trolling or not.If Homer is that difficult that OP had to make this thread and is entirely foreign to Greek lit my advice is buy a Hollywood movie like Troy with Brad Pitt and watch scenes and then read the relevant chapter from the book ie watch the Hector and Achilles duel and then read books 20 and 21 alongside them. That will help with visualizing what is in them. Reading Plato before Homer is not a bright move.>Yeah Homer might be too much. You should read Philebus and Parmenides first. That’s easier
>>25001934Why would I be trolling, faggot? Are you implying Homer writing is easier than Plato's? Ancient poetry is undoubtedly very hard style to read.
>>25001934>>Yeah Homer might be too much. You should read Philebus and Parmenides first. That’s easierRetard. You know there are entry level dialogues in Plato's catalogue, but I will pretend this is not a bait.
>>25001952I know that but my suggestion is still even easier than suggesting read Euthyphro or Hippias Minor.
This was basically just DBZ for the ancients. I don’t know why you expected anything different
>>25001941Nta, but that's so dumb. Both in the Greek and in translation, Homer is the simpler to read.
>>25001671I did psilobicyne and yeah, all major works or literature are plain garbage, I'd say all you need to read is the Bhagavad Gita and the Bible and you're good. I thank God I did my reading of the classics when I was a 20 something faggot who felt he was smart reading these kind of epic shit. But I still would reread the fuck out of the iliad and the odyssey to notice things and understand more about archetypes and the human spirit. Nothing ever changed, really. Nothing wrong with saying the king is naked my friend, of course people here will tell you you are a philistine homosexual because /lit is full of snob faggots who think they are intelectuals because they read a lot of books and believed the praise of (((critics))) and their ego can't handle you don't "think" like themt. philistine faggot
>>25001941If you want an actually decent recommendation I’d tell OP to read this edition of Sappho and to learn Greek phonetically to sound out and eventually understand the fragments. Of the ancients, Sappho is most definitely first rate. Every fragment of hers is beaming with life. I love 55 quite a lot (a takedown of a scurrilous woman who presumably insulted Sappho as not quite good) as a reflection on the fleeting nature of life and memory.
>>25002086Brain fried faggot now wants to listen exclusively to jewry. Sad.
>>25002099Well chuddie, everything goes back to the Bible what can I say? You need to know your bible. I'm a gnostic antisemitic faggot if that helps. I wouldn't follow the religion of a people who is named Israel. Fighting with God? lol, they're satan worshippers and they tell everyone that straight in their faces!>nooo! it's a Genesis reference! Jacob! the wrestling, the angel! reeee!Not gonna fly, bub
>>25002107I‘m not surprised that the people saying jewish folklore/scripture is an essential literary benchmark can‘t form coherent sentences.
>>25001695This is wrong.First, the Bible isn't a single text. The Jewish Canon wasn't fixed until after the Christian one. Some of the texts in the Bible date to around Homer.But as Robert Alter and plenty of others point out, we have good reason to think the David Story (now I and II Samuel and the opening of Kings) was written by a single author and later redacted (although opinions vary a bit on this). It has a lot of narrative parallelisms that suggest this, and the word use as well. A likely composition date for the main bulk or the text is within living memory or David's reign from around 1010 BC to 970 BC. Homer wrote much later, around 800 to 750 BC. The final redaction of the core historical texts is generally considered to have occured during king Josiah's reign, but this was a compilation of much older texts. The Noah story is recorded on stone tablets that predate both Hebrew and Homer by over a millennia.Warfare isn't a focus on the texts. The parallelisms and psychological focus on the David story is different. In many ways, it's a more sophisticated psychological portrait though, although I agree that the descriptions of warfare and of life in general don't live up to Homer. But the prophets' evocative imagery and parallelisms (Amos dating to Homer's period, Isaiah being composed over a longer period, but with some being only a bit later is top notch.Also:>Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.>What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?>One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.>The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.>The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.>All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.>All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.>The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
>>25001934You start with the Alcibades and Apology. I have a graduate degree in philosophy and have published on later Platonists and the Philebus still filters me. I think it actually filters everyone who hasn't attained the gnosis. There is a reason Iamblichus and co. put it last.
>>25002136Hence the reason I mentioned it to be a jerk, as opposed to an easy dialogue like Hippias Minor.Still- Sappho, Homeric hymns, maybe Iliad but read one book individually instead of all at onceThese are better options for a newbie than Plato is.
>>25002127>actually it‘s a bunch of different texts (which are all inferior to the Iliad)>anyway don‘t worry about future generations
>>25002136You're recommending Plato to a retard who needs Homer to be an action film to stay interested. What's the point?
>>25002144Amos has more moral clarity than the all the surrounding Pagan literature up to Plato though. >Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?>I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.>Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts.>Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.>But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream.
>>25002127>>25002156Super cool to have cgpt here in the thread with us
>>25002156Gay, gay, gay, gay, gay.
>>25002170It's sad how Zoomers think that having more than surface level knowledge of things requires AI.
>>25001671>And then brave Adrolopius (guy who you never heard of before and will never hear again) stabbed the stallion-breaking Monolius (another guy that will never get mentioned after this paragraph.) His spear tip pierced the nipple, crushed the bone and splattered out his heart out his back in an explosion of gore, and darkness misted his eyes. He used to be a farmer, back in his homeland of Whothefuckcares, and his sleek-footed mother will never hug her son again, how sad.Ayup, pure kinography
>>25002421More like pure slop. I'm glad I'm not only one who's put off by this. Dwarf Fortress cpmbat logs contain more literary value than this. To the retards who can't read and keep saying I'm finding Homer hard, it's obviously not hard, but all these copy-pasted filler interruptions make it boring. But I'm almost done with the book, and I'm hoping that the Odyssey will have more variety than this
>>25002127Nice melty.
>>25001934What? Plato’s Apology, Crito and Euthyphro are very readable and don’t have a 1000 different threads about unimportant things.And don’t badmouth the Brad Pitt movie. The director’s cut is a very sensible and glorious adaptation, even if not the most accurate, as that’s how epics should feel.
>>25002202Greeks are literally faggots anon.
>>25001799If you enjoyed reading, you'd make some effort to enjoy it for what it is and grow as a reader. All the comparisons you've made make it clear that you're just throwing a melty because it's not like the 21st century novels you've enjoyed. If you wanted some cheap action slop where the writer is contractually obliged to meticulously avoid "filler" or whatever you should have just grabbed that. Instead you picked up something that's not even a novel and now you're mad that it's not a novel.
>>25001695The Bible isn't written until the 3rd century BC,by Greeks in Alexandria.
>>25002670>looks up wtf Dwarf Fortress isYup that's probably more your speed
>>25001671Fair enough that it's not for everyone, but if you judge an epic from oral tradition as a modern novel it obviously won't meet your expectations. Personally I really liked it, and all the guys getting brutally slaughtered painted a picture of massive battles where even "extras" are treated as real humans, the little epilogues to the dead guys drives home that they are as much characters in their own stories as the major ones are like Achilles. If it didn't have those parts, it would feel so much smaller and narrower, as battle scenes easily can be in fantasy and historical epic. I didn't mind the formulaic language at all, it's an artefact of oral recitation, and the central story is fantastic, I didn't get the impression I was only getting snippets. You have stand out scenes like Hector with Andromache that are as good as anything from the best modern classics in my view.If you want something shorter and more focused, you could try the tragedies, like Oedipus Rex, Antigone, Medea, etc.
>>25001787Do an experiment. Take a passage from the Iliad, change all the proper nouns and paraphrase it so it’s not immediately recognizable, then submit it to a writing critique group and ask how good your writing is.
>>25003211
>>25001671Back to reading warhammer, faggot
>>25003232Literally the GOAT stylist
>>25001671Are you reading the Emily Wilson translation? Try reading one by a real poet.
>>25003374/lit/ is the unfunniest board by a country mile.
>>25001671Maybe start using your brain when reading? If you know this is common in Homer, then you should be good by now to identify these moments, and when you identify one you could skim it.
>>25001822Have you considered that they were not literal whos for their target audience?
>>25003374>Tell me about a complicated manI don't think the Wilson translation is bad by any means, in fact, I think it's the version I'd give to a young high schooler or an illiterate cousin that wishes to finally have a literary journey. It's speediness gives it a place in the dialogue. Despite this, her choice of opening line literally makes my blood boil, and I operate with an uncaring stoicism for 99% of things unrelated to my family or immediate needs. Of course he's fucking complicated, he's a literary hero. The line is suppose to explain his versatility/adaptability, you know his most important trait?
>>25003383/co/ and /a/ are far worse.
>>25003498 cards on the table i never set foot out the /lit/ /mu/ /tv/ trinity (besides /b/ when i was 15). but i can count on one hand the number of genuinely funny posts i’ve seen. the /lit/ humour threads are like a slow walk through landmines.
>>25002670kek these video gaming manchildren faggots every time, as if anyone needed confirmation
>>25003611Their hatred runs deeper than that.
>>25003505Same except swap/mu/ for /ck/. Last time I checked mu, it was flooded with kpop.
What translation/edition of the Illiad should I read?
>>25003692mu was my first proper board it was all death grips, nmh and beach house when i was there (with the one k-pop thread). spent an afternoon on /cl/ and had a blast actually except i have no interest in food besides nutrition.
>>25003232OP annihilated>>25003489Same. It's fine and easy to read, but some of her word choices are so pedestrian it boggles the mind. For a deliberately fun translation I think I'd recommend people Fagles.>>25003704You'reopening up a can of worms here bro, /lit/ is incredibly autistic abou translations. The real talk is that the vast majority of translations get the meaning across just fine, so it's mainly a matter of taste. My own preference is Lattimore, he's quite formal, but for me he has a brilliant sense of rhythm, his translation can be a bit staid but just carries me along. Some people really don't don't like him, though, and call him wooden. For a more bombastic translation, I would recommend Fagles, he's pretty easy to read and always tries to amp up the language as much as he can without straying far from the meaning. Emily Wilson is also easy to read but fairly bland.
>>25003704one L
>>25003704>vanillaFagles>stays pretty close to the Greek, but is beautiful in its own right Lattimore >a lot of artistic liberties in pursuit of better poetry Fitzgerald >sounds great when recited out loudMerrill>"That's a pretty poem, mr. Pope, but you must not call it Homer"Pope>oh shit nigger what are you doingEmily Wilson
>>25003374>grassdoggos
It's an esoteric work. Yes, all the people who pretend to find literary value in battle descriptions or whatever are pseuds but you need to tap into the symbolic network of it: this is not bullshit but helps you operate at the fundaments of cultural stereotypes in an ascended mode. You will understand the sub-layers of tropes that people consist of and do anything you want or reduce their emotional significance. With normal books you remain enslaved to cheap emotional or dopamine-loop templates.
>>25001795Homer did not transcribe the oral tradition.
>>25001671Starting with the Greeks is a meme. We all started with the Sumerian grain ledgers.
>>25005838Pseud post
>>25001795I transcribed my oral tradition with your mother last night if you know what I mean
>>25005912what does he mean guys?
>>25003211trvth nvkeit's the same thing I thought about trying the Iliad, got no fucking time to waste on a crap like that
>>25006187>>25003232
>>25006189How does that prove anything? The Iliad by homer is a chore to read. If it was written like in that pic I would read it. Sadly it isn't. When there's an ebook like that tell me.I even bear with Dostoevsky's long ass paragraphs without much trouble, but the Iliad is just gay
>>25006213It is written like that retard, just with line breaks. Clearly you just blew in from booktok though so I'll let you get back to your Dostoevsky and Dwarf Fortress
>>25006213the pic is from the iliad.
>>25006222>I'll let you get back to your Dostoevsky and Dwarf Fortressthanks, didn't know that game though>>25006227I can't believe that's true, it's not like that at the start, reads like some stupid song. Maybe I never got there because I just moved on into something less gay
>>25006213IL.22.502 And when sleep would come upon him and he was done with his playing,IL.22.503 he would go to sleep in a bed, in the arms of his nurse, in a softIL.22.504 bed, with his heart given all its fill of luxury.IL.22.505 Now, with his dear father gone, he has much to suffer:IL.22.506 he, whom the Trojans have called Astyanax, lord of the city,IL.22.507 since it was you alone who defended the gates and the long walls.IL.22.508 But now, beside the curving ships, far away from your parents,IL.22.509 the writhing worms will feed, when the dogs have had enough of you,IL.22.510 on your naked corpse, though in your house there is clothing laid upIL.22.511 that is fine-textured and pleasant, wrought by the hands of women.IL.22.512 But all of these I will burn up in the fire's blazing,IL.22.513 no use to you, since you will never be laid away in them;IL.22.514 but in your honour, from the men of Troy and the Trojan women.'IL.22.515 So she spoke, in tears; and the women joined in her mourning.
>>25006232Now under earth's roof to the house of Deathyou go your way and leave me here, bereft,lonely, in anguish without end. The childwe wretches had is still in infancy;you cannot be a pillar to him, Hektor,now you are dead, nor he to you. And shouldthis boy escape the misery of the war,there will be toil and sorrow for him later,as when strangers move his boundary stones.The day that orphans him ·will leave him lonely,downcast in everything, cheeks wet with tears,in hunger going to his father's friendsto tug at one man's cloak, another's khiton.Some will be kindly: one may lift a cupto wet his lips at least, though not his throat;but from the board some child with living parentsgives him a push, a slap, with biting words:'Outside, you there! Your father is not with ushere at our feast!' And the boy Astyanaxwill run to his forlorn mother. Once he fedon marrow only and the fat of lamb,high on his father's knees. And when sleep cameto end his play, he slept in a nurse's arms,brimful of happiness, in a soft bed.But now he'll know sad days and many of them,missing his father. 'Lord of the lower town'the Trojans call him. They know, you alone,Lord Hektor, kept their gates and their long walls.Beside the beaked ships now, far from your kin,the blowflies' maggots in a swarm will eat younaked, after the dogs have had their fill.Ah, there are folded garments in your chambers,delicate and fine, of women's weaving.These, by heaven, I'll burn to the last threadin blazing fire! They are no good to you,they cannot cover you in death. So let themgo, let them be burnt as an offeringfrom Trojans and their women in your honor."
>>25001952>Plato's catalogueIt's Plato's dialogue pleb.
>>25001952>Plato's cataloguesurely you mean platos eulogue
>>25001671add a family guy gag compilation on the side so your ADHD brain can cope with the text zoomie
>>25001671You need to remember that it was composed almost 3000 years ago. Every single time something happens ask yourself what it means about the person who wrote it, what world they were trying to capture and convince. Consider the purpose of the gods in the work. Consider what it implies about the people of Homer's time that Zeus is sedated by Sleep and terrified of the mysterious Night. Understand all of this and remember that the Ancient Greek Culture was not Western at all, but something far more alien...
