>speaks of himself as a loser with depression who just sits around getting drunk or lying in bed doing opium and masturbating and wasting his life and who only doesn't kill himself because he isn't motivated enough for suicide let alone getting a job >actually had the motivation to learn English fluently just so he can read Poe in the original and also writes extensive rhyming poetry about weird and depressing shit that even the French government banned because they were so weirded out and depressed by it Was Baudelaire a poser feigning depression just to be le quirky? I and many of my friends are diagnosed with depression and you absolute would not be doing all that, you have just enough energy to watch a cheesy movie or have breakfast. You can barely even read or take a shower
>>25011184Depression is episodic. He didn't spend literally 100% of his life lounging around in depressive episodes.
>>25011184He had an inheritance he burned through when young.Honestly I’ve read him and don’t consider him as a depressive like that.
>>25011184He looks like Houlleboq or whatever his name is.
>>25011220If Houellebecq wrote poetry instead of novels and didn't pander to whiners
>>250111844channers not understanding poetry is not surprising.Misunderstanding melancholy for depression is really pathetic.
>>25011252>Misunderstanding melancholy for depressionNobody tell him.
>>25011252I am *sniffs own shit* le Fronch. And *inhales deeply* LE POET. You could never understand
>>25011184>He made multiple suicide attempts>His first was when he was ~24, and he did so by stabbing himself in the chest multiple times >Multiple suicide notes were written>By the time he was ~40, his hair was already greying due to his drug and alcohol abuse>His mother outlived him>He never married nor had any children; his only real relationship was with a Creole woman that turned sour as soon as he lost his inheritanceSounds like a pretty miserable life. But there's no doubt that he was intelligent. He was an insightful art and literary critic who helped pioneer modernism.
>>25011297>what too much ennui does to a mf
>>25011184He's literally me
>>25011227>>25011220I must admit there is a certain resemblance. Baudelaire is so much more noble and talented and profound than Houellebecq that it pains me to admit that it is so. But this makes sense since Houellebecq seems to have channeled a certain Baudelairean alchemy into a 21st century realist novel. By the way, Houellebecq has written "poetry" and it's almost unforgivable.
>>25011184Learning another language is not that hard.
>>25011314Baudelaire had an influence on French literature as significant as Goethe did on German literature and Pushkin did on Russian literature, so Houellebecq would and should be influenced by him, really the only way a French writer could not be would be to consciously ignore his existence.
>>25011314>Baudelaire>profoundHow? Genuinely curious. What I can discern of his thesis in Fleur de Mal strikes me as utterly false and insincere
>>25011315Teaching yourself in an age before the internet can't have been easy
>>25011328He was french so didactic contents, culture and teachers were not that hard to find. Learning english is also extremely easy for a french compared to the other way around. Learning russian or japanase then would have been even more difficult than today though.
>>25011326His "thesis", if you want to call it that, is given in Au lecteur, and it is that we are all wretched and depraved creatures but the most wretched and depraved thing about us is that we are bored and disenchanted with life because we lack even the virtue of being evil in an exciting or dramatic way. It foreshadows the 21st Century in many ways, like Zizek was talking about his sex positivity is being pushed as healthy and said we can't even relish our vices anymore because they have all been made banal and pedestrian and regimented
>>25011326Paris Spleen is better. Read something like 'Everyone Has His Own Chimera' or 'The Old Clown' or 'Toy of the Poor'. The imagery in Flowers is still beautifully expressed by the translations, but too many of them were about Jeanne Duval, which I found slightly boring, to be honest.
>>25011357>this nigga reads Baudelaire in translationNigger, what is wrong with you?
>>25011378Tbf even in prose translation Baudelaire completely rapes most English poetry except for Shakespeare and Milton
>>25011326I won't blame you for not getting it. The idea that Baudelaire is very profound is accepted by many critics, you can read W Benjamin or TS Eliot, Weinginer said he was one of the only Frenchman whose work was acceptably deep to meet his spiritual criteria for art, Rimbaud called him a seer, a God. R. Wagner said of Baudelaire (and someone else), "Just as the divine principle can be seen as a negation of the world, such people are a negation of Paris, but only possible in Paris itself."If Fleurs du Mal is opaque, you'll find in these journals a deep interest in spiritual mattershttps://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/13792/pg13792-images.htmlI'm not sure I agree with this >>25011342 anon's summary, but he is correct that Baudelaire's main concern is moral willSur l'oreiller du mal c'est Satan TrismégisteQui berce longuement notre esprit enchanté,Et le riche métal de notre volontéEst tout vaporisé par ce savant chimiste.
>>25011418But see the rest of au lecteur>Si le viol, le poison, le poignard, l’incendie,>N’ont pas encor brodé de leurs plaisants dessins>Le canevas banal de nos piteux destins, >C’est que notre âme, hélas! n’est pas assez hardie.>If rape, poison, arson, the knife,>Have not yet embellished with their pleasing designs>The banal canvas of our piteous destinies,>It’s just that our soul, alas! lacks sufficient life.
>>25011443
>>25011450Sorry your take kind of reminded me of something Eliot said which I strongly disagree with and I conflated them.>So far as we are human, what we do must be either evil or good; so far as we do evil or good, we are human; and it is better, in a paradoxical way, to do evil than to do nothing: at least, we exist. It is true to say that the glory of man is his capacity for salvation; it is also true to say that his glory is his capacity for damnation.I think B. is basically describing the energies and overcoming the world by insight into its occult nature (Buddhism of art), rather than a demonstration of relative moral values (not sure if that makes sense), or a satire in demonstration of the scripture, "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." But he could be doing both.
>>25011184We NEVER know what people are actually feeling or thinking.
>>25011473Eliot was a major major MAJOR nerd who didn't have any experience of true hardship or debauchery. Baudelaire was situated in that and was very fond of the worst elements of society. He strongly opposed the drastic changes to Paris which today we consider a monumental accomplishment, because they abolished the poorest neighborhoods and those filled with outcasts, gypsies, immigrants, deserters, robbers, drug addicts, schizophrenics, orphans, and Jews outcast from Jewish neighborhoods. Baudelaire saw in them humanity at its rawest completely stripped of our pretenses and illusions of the dignity and beauty of man, and so he felt nearest for that element and love of it was the only true love for humanity
>>25011480Very wrong. Read Spinoza.
>>25011487Untrue, he clearly says that his upper class boredom is even worse than actual violence and hardship, typically myopic and egotistical of artsy rich people. ESPECIALLY if they're French.>>25011450
>>25011497You are attaching baggage to the term "ennui". He isn't referring to the superfluous man here, which a glance upon his poems will show you. He is talking about abused and neglected children and lesbians and Jews
>>25011502>He is talking about abused and neglected children and lesbians and JewsWhere is that?
Lorsque, par un décret des puissances suprêmes,Le Poète apparaît en ce monde ennuyé,Sa mère épouvantée et pleine de blasphèmesCrispe ses poings vers Dieu, qui la prend en pitié:— «Ah! que n'ai-je mis bas tout un noeud de vipères,Plutôt que de nourrir cette dérision!Maudite soit la nuit aux plaisirs éphémèresOù mon ventre a conçu mon expiation!Puisque tu m'as choisie entre toutes les femmesPour être le dégoût de mon triste mari,Et que je ne puis pas rejeter dans les flammes,Comme un billet d'amour, ce monstre rabougri,Je ferai rejaillir ta haine qui m'accableSur l'instrument maudit de tes méchancetés,Et je tordrai si bien cet arbre misérable,Qu'il ne pourra pousser ses boutons empestés!»Elle ravale ainsi l'écume de sa haine,Et, ne comprenant pas les desseins éternels,Elle-même prépare au fond de la GéhenneLes bûchers consacrés aux crimes maternels.Pourtant, sous la tutelle invisible d'un Ange,L'Enfant déshérité s'enivre de soleilEt dans tout ce qu'il boit et dans tout ce qu'il mangeRetrouve l'ambroisie et le nectar vermeil.II joue avec le vent, cause avec le nuage,Et s'enivre en chantant du chemin de la croix;Et l'Esprit qui le suit dans son pèlerinagePleure de le voir gai comme un oiseau des bois.Tous ceux qu'il veut aimer l'observent avec crainte,Ou bien, s'enhardissant de sa tranquillité,Cherchent à qui saura lui tirer une plainte,Et font sur lui l'essai de leur férocité.Dans le pain et le vin destinés à sa boucheIls mêlent de la cendre avec d'impurs crachats;Avec hypocrisie ils jettent ce qu'il touche,Et s'accusent d'avoir mis leurs pieds dans ses pas.Sa femme va criant sur les places publiques:«Puisqu'il me trouve assez belle pour m'adorer,Je ferai le métier des idoles antiques,Et comme elles je veux me faire redorer;Et je me soûlerai de nard, d'encens, de myrrhe,De génuflexions, de viandes et de vins,Pour savoir si je puis dans un coeur qui m'admireUsurper en riant les hommages divins!Et, quand je m'ennuierai de ces farces impies,Je poserai sur lui ma frêle et forte main;Et mes ongles, pareils aux ongles des harpies,Sauront jusqu'à son coeur se frayer un chemin.Comme un tout jeune oiseau qui tremble et qui palpite,J'arracherai ce coeur tout rouge de son sein,Et, pour rassasier ma bête favoriteJe le lui jetterai par terre avec dédain!»Vers le Ciel, où son oeil voit un trône splendide,Le Poète serein lève ses bras pieuxEt les vastes éclairs de son esprit lucideLui dérobent l'aspect des peuples furieux:
— «Basedez béni, mon Dieu, qui donnez la souffranceComme un divin remède à nos impuretésEt comme la meilleure et la plus pure essenceQui prépare les forts aux saintes voluptés!Je sais que vous gardez une place au PoèteDans les rangs bienheureux des saintes Légions,Et que vous l'invitez à l'éternelle fêteDes Trônes, des Vertus, des Dominations.Je sais que la douleur est la noblesse uniqueOù ne mordront jamais la terre et les enfers,Et qu'il faut pour tresser ma couronne mystiqueImposer tous les temps et tous les univers.Mais les bijoux perdus de l'antique Palmyre,Les métaux inconnus, les perles de la mer,Par votre main montés, ne pourraient pas suffireA ce beau diadème éblouissant et clair;Car il ne sera fait que de pure lumière,Puisée au foyer saint des rayons primitifs,Et dont les yeux mortels, dans leur splendeur entière,Ne sont que des miroirs obscurcis et plaintifs!»
>>25011522Dipshit, the first fucking poem in the anthology is about a child who is abused by his mother to take revenge on his father. And XXXII is, One Night I Lay with a Frightful Jewess. XIII is a description of destitute GypsiesAt least read Le fleurs du mal before being so ridiculous in your interpretation. It's a very short book
>>25011418Do I have any hope if I only know English? I've wanted to read Baudelaire for years
>>25011184You can definitely write great works with major depression, but it requires copious amounts of drugs.
>>25011534Anon... those are the best you can come up with? A poem clearly about his "struggle" as a poet and a poem about fucking a Jewish woman he's disgusted by? Let's be honest with ourselves at the very least
>>25011378God forbid a nigga read the translationAlors, c'est la vie
>>25011535Get bilingual edition or even put the poem in google translate or chatgpt to learn french
>>25011561You ask for examples of what I mentioned, as in evidence those two passing subjects are spoken of in the poemIf you think she is disgusted with her, then you haven't even read the poem, let alone the work in whole. Why are you even weighing in here when you're so much of a pseud you can't even finish a work that takes thirty minutes to read?
>>25011535If Baudelaire could be arsed to learn a language to read Poe, why can't you be arsed to learn French to read Baudelaire? Just learn all the vocabulary of one poem through a bilingual edition like Brown's which is great for students, and practice that poem because each poem is 100% worth memorizing, same as learning a good song to play is
>>25011575You claimed his poetry was essentially centered on championing the struggles of the abused and the outcast, and as evidence you cited a poem about himself and a poem about him banging a Jew. And yes, in the one about banging the Jew he compares her to a cadaver and compares her inadequate, implied ugliness to the true beauty he longs for. Idk why you can't just admit the obvious.
>>25011574>>25011582I really am just stupid guys. Sorry. My best effort isn't good enough to learn a language. I don't think I can brute force learn a language like that. Sorry again did wasting your time
>>25011609His poetry was not "championing" their "struggles" in a social justice sense. His poetry is the literary equivalent to Gummo but with choice words and rhyme and in 19th Century Paris>>25011618You are stupid out of choice. There are Mexicans with an IQ of sixty who are fluent in both Spanish and English
>>25011184MELANCHOLIA DOES NOT DETER ONE FROM PERSEVERING IN A ROTE LONG TERM ACT LIKE LEARNING A LANGUAGE; WRITING POESY IS AN ANTIDOTE FOR MELANCHOLIA, SINCE IT CAUSES EUPHORIA; REGARDLESS, BODELER, MOST PROBABLY, WAS, ALSO, MELODRAMATIC, LIKE ALL THE ROMANTICISTS EVERYWHERE.
>>25011734?
I spent parts of my 5 years of NEETdom learning French so that I could read Baudelaire>Ah ! race d’Abel, ta charogne>Engraissera le sol fumant !>Race de Caïn, ta besogne>N’est pas faite suffisamment ;>Race d’Abel, voici ta honte :>Le fer est vaincu par l’épieu !>Race de Caïn, au ciel monte>Et sur la terre jette Dieu ! God I love France so much
>>25011731Writing poetry today makes you euphoric yes
>>25011582>just memorize the poem in French by memorizing the English translation>that way when you read the French you read the English translation in your headJesus Christ.
>>25011899This is like baby's first edge.>UMMM LIFE SUCKS>LIKE CAIN'S DESCENDANTS RULE THE EARTH>BUT LIKE INSTEAD OF LAMENTING ABOUT THIS>LET'S DO THE BRAT SUMMER THING AND EMBRACE IT!!!!>LIKE HOW SWIFTIES EMBRACED KIM K CALLING TAY TAY A SNAKE!!!!>HELL YEAH LET'S CAST GOD OUT FROM HEAVENBro. Come on.
>>25011899I loved learning French just to read his rants against the Belgian.
>>25011630Nah I'm not stupid out of choice. And I actually am bilingual. Languages you know from birth don't count.
>>25011184>Was Baudelaire a poser feigning depression just to be le quirky?That was basically Sartre's thesis.
>>25012133I never suggested memorizing the English translation but you should definitely finish learning English before embarking on French
>>25012187No one knows a language from birth
>>25012332ESL cope
>>25011184Wait a tickHe's literally me?
