first for Reverend Insanity

second for pruned general

>>25013909
>shit, know what?
there was some misinfo about the immersive ink "launchapalooza" being a deckbuilder themed event to mirror the monster girl evolution meme, where a million stories in the same genre drop on RR at the same time.
but actually it was just a general topic event where anyone in the discord launching any webnovel could participate and i guess they would all spam shoutout swaps to hopefully boost visibility. of course in the monstergirl case they were all from established authors with relatively big audiences which is why they were able to all end up in rising stars and crowd out newer authors. immersive ink's thing i don't think achieved the same effect.
it was supposed to have happened december 6th but I didn't hear much about it. then the imm ink 'cord exploded.
i don't believe there is any upcoming deckbuilder event although nobody in the threads seems to have any concrete info.

Yo /rig/ (Reverend Insanity General) who's your favourite Venerable (without including the man Fang Yuan himself)? For me it's Red Lotus, his story is kinda clichè but I feel he represents the spirit of the story the most. Limitless and Paradise Earth for 2nd and 3rd place

>>25014205
What would Spectral Soul Demon Venerable do in this situation?

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>>25014393
Spectral Soul, my GOAT. He would have already won if not for all the other venerables scheming against him. Win again, I mean. Plus, this is all part of his master keikakku to become a killing path venerable.

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>>25014428

>>25014437
In Xianxia, how you fight is also why you fight and why you are. It is an extension of yourself. It is your Dao.

>>25014205
>it's misinfo
>but they were planning to do the exact thing the "misinfo" said they were going to

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>>25014450
>but they were planning to do [deckbuilder mass launch meme]
proofs? images? citations?
all i've seen is that one list of participating launchapalooza works with like a half dozen deckbuilders mixed among the other
shit
and again, that ALREADY HAPPENED, the launch date was on the first week of december. then they died in a drama explosion 1-2 weeks later.

reverend insanity unironically did it best: fang yuan is shown as always being superior but he has to work his ass off for it and he suffers MAJOR setbacks constantly

>>25014558
reverend insanity is horrible, the power system is vague and horrible
the story sucks outside the starter village as well and you can stop afterwards

My story on spacebattles got more views in the first few days than my previous story did in its 7 month lifetime, and 6x as much as when I launched it on RR, not sure what to make of it desu, curious what the numbers will end up being once I finish act 1

>>25014584
So like Harry Potter

>>25014592
basse

>>25014455
I think that guy is under the impression that it being a mass launch was the misinfo.
To add onto it, they were going to each have an Inkie logo on the covers to show they were all part of the event. People were expected to have at least 30 chapters by the deadline, one for each shout out they were required to make to participate.

>>25014659
>What was the drama about?
the discord admin/cofounder was in bed with a publisher (shadow light press) whose whole business model was basically grooming naive new authors on writing discords into signing insanely predatory contracts

>>25014612
yes harry potter is only fun when he is not in hogwarts

>>25014666
for them it is a good bet, one might make it big, two might make it
just throw spaghetti at the wall as long as the wall belongs to you not much cost

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>>25014669
Not everybody out there has old uncle 4chan warning them about (and exemplifying) predators on the internet.

Never sign a contract without YOUR lawyer looking it over first.
Also ALL publishing contracts are predatory: it's how the entire publishing industry stays afloat.

What were the Shadowlight contracts like anyway?

>>25014654
A kid solves cases in VR while his girlfriend cucks him.

>>25014712
Sissekai already did it

>>25014705
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgressionFantasy/comments/1poe338/psa_shadow_light_press_contract/

>>25014716
>>25014740
Wtf, this shit is Webnovel tier. Immersive Ink? More like Subversive Slink. Glad they went under.

>>25014761
Webnovel is actually more honest.
They straight up tell you they're going to exploit your ip inside of China, they're not trying to deceive people or groom and trick people.

>>25014584
What? Ri power system is well developed

>>25014780
Oh they will groom and trick and exploit people except that they will clearly state that in their contract. They are honest about it.

>>25014827
ancestor giant sun disapproves of this message

>>25014654
Same story as my current one but with some older concepts and from a different character's perspective. It was a short story but this one is like an expansion of it into a longer novel-length narrative.

Since I turned thirty, YouTube has been bombarding me with shed building videos, home makeovers, DIY projects, and all that stuff. And now, I kinda want stories where the MC goes full Minecraft and builds his house bit by bit over the course of a hundred chapters or so.
No, I’m not looking for kingdom building or anything like that. I want a guy out in the woods, clearing a plot of land, laying the foundation, figuring out how to set up a plumbing system, and maybe occasionally venturing out to retrieve a magical ice crystal for his refrigerator or a lava sword for his stove, stuff like that. And yes, having side characters reacting to him in a misunderstanding comedy way would be a bonus.
Is there anything like that out there?

>>25014865
I only briefly looked at it, so I don't know how much it would be the case, but maybe: My Quiet Blacksmith Life in Another World
There's a lot of slow living stuff.

>>25014740
you forgot the one that pissed off authors the most
>if you are "unable or unwilling to continue the series for any reason" they can hire ghostwriters and steal your name to continue publishing books as if they were you, potentially trashing your good name by publishing slop
>the royalty share they pay you for this is entirely up to their discretion with no minimum value, so expect 0
>you're under nda for this btw so if you ever mention that you didn't write that book you can get sued for breach.
>contract breach lets them charge you for 3x expenses AND take 20% of your revenue for the next TEN YEARS

and also
>for the 10 year period of the contract you MUST give shadow light the "first look" at every new series. if you even try to sign with another publisher you have to let SLP know first and spend 30 days negotiating in "good faith" before you're allowed to turn down SLP's offer and take the competitor's

>>25014914
Imagine being one of those ghostwriters. I'd go out of my way to slip in some fetish material, looking at what came before to find the most plausible one. Yeah, you're the fetish guy now bub. You going to break that NDA to clear your name? Nah, you aren't.

>>25014814
its fuzzy, asspull as the gus that exist are not defined ahead of time

>>25014716
>>25014740
>Progression
All the wrong in the world.
Fucking hell.

>>25007432
Where is Breath of Creation copy?
Where is Rational Zombie copy?
Where is Law of Shadows copy?
Why in the hell there is no one who undertake a 500k words long glorified MoL fanfic?

>>25014979
Yes, it's pretty good... up to the reset. Fuck that.

>>25010910
>LitRPG
Get the fuck out.

>>25014996
At first, I didn't like it. Then, I read MoL and now I have sky-high expectations.
A cool time-loop video,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oykg2y1KHGg

>>25014979
I enjoyed all of em, they're incredibly unique in an oversaturated genre

Something I notice about stories I actually read recently was that every single one of them are just simple ideas executed straightforwardly.
>A good girl and a not-slave boy
Both of them were special from the start. They go out adventuring, get warned about a big conflict, try to flee, and the conflict catches up to their safe haven. The girl and boy get separated. The boy loses his specialness, but he doesn't give up. He goes to the main stage where all the big players in the world are ready to duke it out. He's literally an ant in a storm. The relationships he and the girl fostered during their brief adventure create a chance for him to strike the big bad. But at the last moment, he chooses to save the girl instead. Somehow, the world is saved.

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>>25014715

>>25013783
>Deckbuilding Lit RPG
When did this happen?
I only read one where it's set in a tower and the mc has a fairy. That's pretty interesting, but I stopped after catching up (there's only eight-nine chapters at the time) and I'm scared of it turning into number fest.

>>25015022
how do people write multiple novels worth of this shit and I can't get past THE

>>25015034
A lot of time and just write.
Or a lot of stress.
>>25015037
Yes, probably. It's been years since I read it.

>>25010910
>>25014991
isekai litrpg is the rising stars formula but successful time loop works are actually pretty rare

>>25015034
write (you)r fetish and you'll be far more motivated

>>25015022
>Double Cuckold (they cuck each other it's hot trust me ;3)
webnovels for this feel WITHOUT sissies nor futanari?

>write lit-rpg
>Use 'progression' in the title
>Do not progress the numbers of the protagonist
>Do not progress the social status of the protagonist
>Do not progress the wealth of the protagonist
Why are they like this bros?

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>>25015057
Yes, that's it. I have one with different cover.

>>25015075
Perfect Run is great until the mc start begin dating the boss' daughter. God, I cringed so hard, especially after it managed a crazy romance with the mech bitch.
>MoL
>bad pacing
I also want it to not skip loops, but if it's the cost of a great finale, then I'm fine. By the way, do you think Arc 1 pace is better?

>>25015034
>I can't get past THE
Unironically, read how to write using the snowflake method. Then read its sequel for the line by line writing.

>>25015075
>Menocht Loop
Was that the one that start with a fortress/tower getting attacked/sieged?
>Elysium Falls
I can't get past the synopsis.

>>25015075
for whatever reason I just love voidherald's level of redditism even though it has annoyed me in works by other authors.

>>The Menocht Loop
I saw this one a few times and looked it up but never read it because the blurb seemed to imply the time loop was only a framing device for the first arc before he advances to the next realm. Unless I'm badly misreading it?
>Only 1% of the population is blessed with magic affinity at birth. Fewer still have high enough affinities to rule. Ian’s decemancy eclipses all, granting him ultimate control over Death. He conquers cities with a thought and turns them into ruins with a gesture. But overwhelming power isn’t enough to escape the time loop or reveal its purpose.
>When Ian discovers a critical clue that he missed years ago, escape is finally at his fingertips.
>Little does he know, it's only the first realm.

>elysium falls
never heard of this before, doesn't seem to be a web novel at all since the only results are amazon.
but sure I'll add it to my to-read list

>>25015070
> protagonist starts at dr manhattan levels of op
where is my progress?!!!
but fr user tags are in the translation scene usually more reliable than tags the author forgot about

>>25015070
Many somehow misunderstand the tag to mean fast-paced but "progression" means basically the opposite, slow-burn stories where the progress happens gradually over a long period

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/95822/drowned-quest-surreal-underwater-misadventures
Finished quest from /qst/ editing it into a Webnovel.

>>25015429
The most tumblr thing I've ever seen

>>25014950
brando sando...

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>can't get myself to write more than 300 words per day

Origin of Progression Fantasy
https://andrewkrowe.wordpress.com/2019/02/26/progression-fantasy-a-new-subgenre-concept/

The progressionfantasy subreddit was created at the same time. It's interesting to see the origin of a subgenre. There's probably a lot of people who think genres just spotaneously appear without any real origination or originator. That goes even moreso for memes.

>>25015660
>just spotaneously appear without any real origination or originator.
Judging by the examples they gave, It basically did, there just wasn't a good name for it until someone coined one.
First Person Shooters were not originally called that, they were called Doom-clones until someone came up with a better name.

>>25015660
>>25015663
I'm pretty sure it came up as Xianxia started to become known and the western just recognized that you can use 'progress' as a plot.

>>25015663
>>25015669
Yes, I specifically mean the name, not the content.

>>25015676
Also the comments are an interesting elaboration upon and arguments about it. As with most any genre, there's debate on whether it's just a marketing term in the end.

>regressor's tale of cultivation
the head realm is spooky as fuck

>>25015660
>In Mother of Learning by Domagoj Kurmaic, the protagonist is a mage who is stuck in a time loop. As he repeats events in the loop, he gains new abilities, more mana, and more powerful spells.
Wow, exactly the kind of thing I'd expect a progression slop writer would to spout.

why the fuck did half of this threads posts get deleted?

>>25015742
Good question—next question!

>>25015742
Banning someone deletes all their posts

>>25015742
I checked the archive and theyre just normal posts
did some anon get turbo nuked by ip? I didn't know 4chan even did that

>>25015783
well I've been temp banned and that didn't happen. guess that guy got permad

>think writing a WN would be an easy way to improve my writing skill
>start writing
>immediately reminded of the fact that my prose is inferior to MLA and the other WNs whose prose failed to capture my interest
how do you cope with this

Did they kill tina?

>>25015809
>how do you cope with this
it's okay to be bad at something just focus on getting better

>>25015809
Just keep writing.
You have to write many many thousands of words anyway, regardless of what method or style you use and whether you're successful or not.
The people subjecting themselves to amazon selfpub novels are writing double digit books before they make any money. That's way more than writing 100 wn chappies.

>>25015814
no, it wasn't tina, i checked the archive. it was actually just some random normal poster. mustve gone psycho on another board/thread

>>25015809
>whose prose failed to capture my interest
it's prose that captures your interest?

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just got a review for my story that made me burst out laughing

>>25015845
>Mc doesn't want to randomly kill people
Is it just required for all cultivation MCS to be indiscriminate killers?

>>25015688
a lot of stuff in RTOC is spooky as fuck
honestly imo surpasses LOTM in some ways as far as weird conceptual shit

>>25015845
Archetypal esl third-worlder review, my bet is some teenage SEAmonkey
Also a very easy report, if you want it gone

>>25015880
>Also a very easy report, if you want it gone
wait, really? why? reader is obviously barely literate but he dislikes the story and gave relevant reasons why, no matter how stupid we think those reasons are

>>25015858
The thing is that he does kill people. The entire incident that he mentions happens because the MC kills a dude and doesn't feel even slightly bad about it. That doesn't mean he'll kill indiscriminately.

>>25015880
Honestly, I don't know if I'll take it down or not. I could be convinced either way, really.

>>25015883
Retarded (or its less common spelling, 'retarted', seen here) is considered a slur by some.

>>25015883
It plainly contravenes review rules, which are basically written by design to filter out these types of sperg reviews. Many reviews that are technically against the rules stay up, though. Usually reports are used, again, against sperg reviews like this one.

>>25015887
>Retarded (or its less common spelling, 'retarted', seen here) is considered a slur by some.
retarted means tarted again, the verb of tart
you retart

>>25015880
it says the post was by a "whiteman" though

>>25015888
but what rule is it breaking? nothing pops out to me, it's an ESL rant about story elements and how the story got worse, so 3.5 stars. it's exactly what a review should be

>>25015896
I can't explain it because I'm also retarded but it's a matter of "know it when I see it". I've seen many similar reviews get removed. So I'll be lazy and just link the rr reviewing rules:
https://www.royalroad.com/support/knowledgebase/73

>>25015901
out of curiosity I went through and read the rules and there's not a single one it breaks, besides the anti-vulgarity one that anon pointed out for the mc being 'retarted'
I think you're used to rambling ESL reviews like this inevitably breaking a rule and made that association in your head, but there's nothing wrong with this review. it's on topic, only talks about the story and justifies the review

>>25015809
realize that prose doesn't matter

>>25015894
That's exactly how you know it was a spic or seamonkey. Probably has a Luffy or Goku profile pic on discord or twitter.

I haven't seen tina lately.

>>25015809
for webnovels being able to make daily chapters is superior to prose

>>25015953
all the recent big successes have serviceable prose I've noticed
I think the ancient days of near unreadable stories blowing up are gone

>>25015901
Reporting isn't some "janny clean it up" service anyway. By default they give the user the option to edit and resubmit the review again, and not even panic blocking can prevent it. Sometimes getting a message from Mr moderator scares them and they change it to a rating or do nothing, but not always

>>25015956
>I think the ancient days of near unreadable stories blowing up are gone
It's fucking over for me anons

>>25015912
report it and see what happens
either gets dropped or you suffer nothing, because it's retarded enough that reporting it has plausible deniability
the critique is that MC is not being a murderhobo, which is not a real issue with the novel, it's a pure case of a retard SEAmonkey projecting what he wants onto the MC and being upset when he doesn't behave according to the SEAmonkey's self-delusion

>>25015957
never had removed reviews crop back up myself

>>25015956
standards have gone up
the bracket remains, if your prose is too advanced (requires actual attention and doesn't repeat vital info regularly) you will get a cohort of brainlets whining
once had a guy do that very thing and drop a reviewshit accurately clocking me as a non-native speaker. because my prose was above an elementary school level. lol. dumbed it down somewhat since then for ease of writing but still.

>>25015956
>I think the ancient days of near unreadable stories blowing up are gone
so they're just becoming trad pub?

>>25015962
>the critique is that MC is not being a murderhobo, which is not a real issue with the novel, it's a pure case of a retard SEAmonkey projecting what he wants onto the MC and being upset when he doesn't behave according to the SEAmonkey's self-delusion
Like 90% of all reviews in existence is "the work didn't do what I wanted/go where I wanted", though. That's valid

>>25015967
>so they're just becoming trad pub?
how so? trad pub is hated for the gatekeeping and nepotism not because standards are higher
overall quality improving on the site is a good thing, except for bad authors hoping for free money

>>25015968
Yes, but the RR review rules are intended to push reviews towards more objective analysis. Not fully objective, but at least to discourage this type of REEEview.

>>25015858
if they offend him then he has to slap their face, if they call him grandfather and kowtow to him three times he may forgive them

>>25015973
I don't see anything pushing for objectivism in the review rules. I also don't see the necessity for it. Reviews are subjective by nature. Disliking an element of a story and wishing the author hadn't done it that way is completely normal in reviews and trying to ban that would be bizarre to me.
The closest thing the rules say about it is that you can't review bomb just because it has the litrpg tag for example, or a cover you don't like. But that's not what happened. Anon didn't like how stupid the MC acted throughout the course of the story. No matter how retarded their viewpoint is or is not, that's a valid reason to drop and rate low in my eyes.

>>25015951
but has TINA seen you?
think about it

A slopper who cares about their prose pyw and I'll take a look and politely give you some feedback

How has Seras written 10s of thousands of pages of extremely popular web fiction and still doesn't know basic punctuation?
That new Warcraft SI fic at the top of Rising Stars opens with
>“C’mon.” I grumbled, as my hands flickered golden light across the forest.
Messes up both the tag and the comma. First sentence
Bravo

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Have you ever received an offensive comment on one of your fictions or RoyalRoad? A comment that would warrant a report? What about private messages? Have you ever receiving one saying your fiction suck, accusing you of plagiarism with/without proof, or simply being an asshole? I havent but I do in my nightmares.. Ive always been a really sensitive person, and I dont know if I could handle such pressure in reallife..

>>25016011
Yeah. I usually leave them up and make fun of them and watch the other commenters, who see my response and taking it as permission, swarm the dipshit like piranhas
kind of intoxicating ngl

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>>25016015
Can you give an example? I dont thiink I'd ever respond an asshole comment, since I may end up looking like a bigger asshole myself if I went too nasty (I've never known moderation either with words or alcohol). I'd probably just ignore it and let the readers who think the criticism is unfair white knight for me. As a matter of fact, I'd probably never ever reply to ANY comment, good or bad, because if someone sees you commented recently, they'd assume (or actually know) youre online and comment a nasty one only to rattle the author. Oh man... I hate having to interact with people on non-anonymous platforms.. I hate having every I say rated and criticized!

>>25015912
I had one such schizo ESL sperg out on both my fictions one night. One review was just inside the review guidelines, even though it was irritating. The other was completely incoherent and revealed he didn't even read the story, he was probably just mad at the other one and wanted to lash out.
I got the latter review deleted. This morning he joined my patreon as a free member with the same handle.
This is why some authors consider readers to be cattle.

>>25016043
One guy I had gave me 3 stars because I didn't cater to one tag I put on, as in not genre tropes. I checked 3 star is his top 10% of reviews.
When he writes reviews it is because his trope diet was not delivered.

>>25016005
I'll say it again: this simply isn't taught in English courses anymore, at any grade level. People are just expected to do it wrong until someone corrects them and they look it up themselves.

>>25016011
Yeah I've gotten tilted from critical comments and reviews before, mainly about like others have said, the character doing things they disagreed with. Everyone thinks they're a literary critic now. The important thing is to NOT respond while you're in your feelings. Wait a few days, and then you'll see it's not worth a response anyway.
Now if it's abusive I see nothing wrong with deleting it or reporting it. You don't ever need to tolerate that, and you don't want to just ignore it forever lest it encourage other retards to post abusive comments.

>>25016028
>(I've never known moderation either with words or alcohol)
I feel you anon. It's a skill you can learn, though. I've found the bigger peril of responding to comments is readers begging for spoilers. And I'm always on the lookout for people seeking a parasocial relationship.
My one conceit is I'll give people max rep for spotting typoes: I really want to encourage free proofreading labor.

>>25016028
>they'd assume (or actually know) youre online
your royalroad profile shows every time you're online on the website and you can't disable it

>>25016011
>Ive always been a really sensitive person, and I dont know if I could handle such pressure in reallife..
You really need to write with a huge backlog then because if you attain any level of popularity you're gonna get fucked up by the comments. Even the best rated stories get rude comments daily, the low-rated slop ones way more so

>>25015410
progression just means the MC's power increases over time (higher cultivation tiers in xianxia-like stories, higher "levels" in litrpg, theoretically better and better magic in fantasy, though to me regular fantasy isn't really progfantasy even if the wizard goes from newb to archmage)

>>25016058
Yeah. Discreetly reporting nasty comments without replying or seething is definetely the way to go. Youre also spot on on the neccesity to repel parasocial seeking loners, and on the benefits of encouraging typo detection among readers. Great post, anon!

I still think Zogarth handles his commenters best

>>25016011
>Have you ever received an offensive comment on one of your fictions or RoyalRoad?
Guess how fucking many. If you get on RS, schizo losers will do everything they can to bomb your work and get it removed, if you give them the slightest opening. Since authors can moderate their own comments, I obviously delete those that get personal and derogatory, and report reviews that break the rules. But yeah, you're gonna need a thick skin

>>25016011
I don't even get comments; so no.

>>25016011
im a reader so i leave the comments.

>>25016028
>comment a nasty one only to rattle the author
thin skin issue
the nastier the comment the more it excites me because it allows me to escalate more while still having the moral high ground with moderators if the commenter gets too uppity

>>25016092
what is RS?

>>25016131
Rising Stars

>>25016131
Reverend Sanity

>>25016048
I don't get why you are bragging about mistagging

>>25016144
He wanted a specific kind of trope experience, the tag applied descriptive he wanted it fetishized.

wew 4chins became reddit
you can thank me (I'm angry and rude all the time but I haven't been on lit in 2 years)
or you can blame me

I used to write shipfic for ao3 and the comments were so nice and positive, universally
Moving to RR was whiplash. Almost everyone is an asshole

>>25016153
>wew 4chins became reddit
the overlap of 4chan and reddit has been almost one to one for more than a decade. it's not a new development. it's straight up newfaggy to suggest otherwise

>>25016153
where have you been for these two years?

>>25016156
grow thicker skin
RR is very civil, even too much
they even removed one of my reviews for "discouraging the author" (I wrote that I didn't like the story, because the prose was unreadable and gave 2 stars)
it was one of those ESL stories that are barely readable, on the level of old xianxia MTL

>>25016162
Were you discouraging the author?

>>25016161
partially addicted to shitty webnovels instead of being addicted to 4chins
partially conscious choice, hoping that removing parsocial activities (even anonymous forums are parsocial) from my life will motivate me to develop socially IRL (didn't work out that well, but not a complete bust)

I guess I must've unintentionally cultivated a niche community because all my RR commenters love my shit. Had multiple people in a row freak out (positive) over a king in yellow reference.

>>25016162
>grow thicker skin
my skin is plenty thick, i'm more than used to it by now. but that doesn't mean I've gaslit myself into thinking that I like assholes, lol. RR is full of obnoxious autists with antisocial tendencies. that's the price for writing to the paypiggie crowd

>>25016174
You have no community, kinoman

>>25016167
reading that review certainly wouldn't be encouraging
I obviously didn't harp on about ESL or the like
but if you can't even say that the novel is shit, then is there any value to the reviews?
if all reviews are positive, then reviews are worthless

besides even true great writers have hundreds of bad reviews on goodreads or Amazon
nothing will appeal to everybody and that's okay

my complaint is mostly about it being a pointless rule, that could remove any negative review
not about the mod acting outside the rules

>>25016191
autist/aspergers anon, it's about how you say things not just what you say. stop being a robot being from planet X

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>>25016182
who the fuck is kenoman
is the fat lesbian PPP of Kino Casino a webnovel author?

>>25016201
lurk more newfag

>>25016200
I was certainly more civil than a lot of reviews that don't get removed
with a rule like that it's all up to the mod
and whether the author knows it's there and is willing to abuse it

>>25016191
There's a pretty big difference between "the frequent mistakes made the prose difficult to follow, 2 stars" and "UNREADABLE GARBAGE BY A RETARD, 2 stars" even if the bottom line is the same

>>25016201
okay dsp

>>25016219
first of all how dare you make me imagine a webnovel written by dsp

>>25016215
no shit
you really think I'm going to do that whole stupid song and dance here?
I was obviously paraphrasing in site appropriate lingo right there (ffs there's a min length limit there so it always has to be more elaborate)

but you still gotta admit that "I didn't like the story, because the prose was unreadable" is way off your strawman

Once you graduate to KU you will know what it means to get truly bad reviews. Amazon and Goodreads don't hold your hand like the fanfiction sites. They don't care if the reviews are discouraging to the author. As long as it's not racist or downright abusive (and even then). Makes sense, since the paying customer matters more than the author.

>>25016234
Well, I know the RR mods pretty well and they're generally very reluctant to outright delete reviews, plus you come across as a pretty convincing asshole, so I can only assume you're very bad at expressing yourself

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>>25016191
Many Webnovel authors want to make money from their work. So bad reviews send them into tantrums.

>>25016242
the reviews i see on KU are much nicer than RR ones though?

>>25016255
The more I read about web novel authors, the more I start to wonder if shadow light publishing was really in the wrong.

>>25016242
Tell me about it. One fucker gave book 1 in my series 1 star, rambling something vague about characterization as the reason. But then he went on to read book 2 anyway and gave it also 1 star and bragged that he paid for neither because he got them through Amazon prime. What a dick

>>25016244
you seem too emotionally invested by now too admit you misread/misunderstood my first post
I'm an asshole by redit standards, but I'm able to adjust by site (never even got any comment removed on reddit, which should say a lot, since they are pretty fragile there)

it was just an example of how civil they keep the site, no need to get do defensive of your mod friends

>>25015669
there were also more and more webnovels based on japanese isekai-with-unexplained-vidya-mechanics webstuff

>>25016280
How interesting. Please tell me more

>>25016259
Depends on what you read maybe? I've seen some reviews of smut on KU that were more than discouraging.

>>25015956
>I think the ancient days of near unreadable stories blowing up are gone
they're just on webnovel instead of royalroad. that site loves its ESLs

>>25016298
webnovel needs insane output and all views are fake, royalroad views are somewhat realer

>>25016255
>implying creators who do it for free don't get equally mad at criticisms of their work

>>25016267
>bragged that he paid for neither because he got them through Amazon prime.
Lol how does he think that works? That authors don't get paid somehow? It's not even actually free for him, it's part of a subscription. Readercattle are funny

>>25016315
it is free for him, he didn't need to pay to review bomb the book and it cost him nothing

>>25016315
If he pays for Prime just for shipping, then theoretically reading a KU story is 'free' in some way. The author still gets some money (less than for a full purchase).

is this thread for readers or writters?

>>25016325
>If he pays for Prime just for shipping, then theoretically reading a KU story is 'free' in some way.
Girl math

it got invaded by wannabe writers

>>25016326
Both, which is why it's such a shitty thread.
It was originally made by /wg/ regulars though so there's a disproportionate amount of authors

>>25016333
newfag

>multiple people leave "temporary" reviews
>they never update them
this makes me sad

>>25016331
I don't pay for it. I pay for free shipping from another webstore (popular in my country) and there's no KU alternative bundled in the price. Just free shipping is worth it. If one day they bundled a KU alternative it would feel 'free' to me (the KU part, since I'm actually buying it only for free shipping).
I think it's distinct from actual girl math.

>>25016326
Both. You can ask for recs for reading, questions about how to write and post a webnovel, questions about monetization, basically anything as long as it's about webnovels. You can even post your thoughts about a webnovel you read here instead of commenting or reviewing on the site where it was published. I've bitched about Song of the Gift-Giver and BTDEM before, and another anon has been posting reviews of webnovels he's reading lately.

>>25016347
Actual girl math is paying more and claiming it's "free" because you found some money you think you've lost, etc. Not paying more is the opposite of girl math.

>>25016336
If you want something gatkept for authors only I'm sure there's a subreddit for that. Or some discord.
The whole idea of 4chan is that anyone can post here.

>>25016356
it is a time cost, but he didn't pay to access that story specific
for normal users it costs to leave a negative review so it is rare

>>25016347
It doesn't matter if you buy a bundle of benefits (Prime) for one benefit in particular. You still paid money for those other benefits.
Obviously I understand what you're saying, but it wasn't free
That's why I said
>It's not even actually free for him, it's part of a subscription.
He paid money to have access. Surrounding logic doesn't matter

>>25016362
okay but then we should get rid of /wg/

>>25016354
>BTDEM
are you gay?

>>25016371
>we should get rid of /wg/
Who are we?
With what power?
wng is the refugee.

>>25016362
I didn't advocate for changing it, I just explained why the thread is shitty, crybaby

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>>25016379
Please do not reply to trolls.

>>25016382
you cried
I gave you a solution
now you are angry
womanish behavior

>>25016373
No, but my webnovel kryptonite is healer-fighters. BTDEM, 1% Lifesteal, Lifeweaver, The Pinnacle Warrior, and Azarinth Healer are all to my taste.
I have a shitton of criticism for BTDEM though. Just don't feel like writing a 5k word essay on it right now when I'm supposed to be revising 9 chapters for my launch next month.

>>25016387
you're assuming shit and making up something to get mad and argue about. woman behavior.
i didn't ask for a way to fix the thread, i just said why it's a shitty thread. you're definitely oversensitive readercattle

>>25016394
>no you
based

>>25016396
not my fault you accused me of doing the exact shit you were

are you also internally forced to leave one star if the story is stubbed?
even if it's good enough to find it on the high seas, if it started out as free and then "sold out" then I just have to punish that
if it starts out as a paid story then I don't care

>>25016416
>are you also internally forced to leave one star if the story is stubbed?
idk comes off kinda cope and seethe
if they moved to amazon they didn't care about RR anyway

>>25016416
I never understood why people even pay for e-books. With movies/TV it makes some sense (unless you put in some effort to get into Plex or w/e or at least get into holy cabal then torrenting is a bit bothersome). But downloading off anna's is just too easy.

>>25016421
They generally double-dip with releasing new books on RR (free editing, and some retards pay for Patreon even if the author sells their books - it makes no sense to support an 'artist' who sells commercially, it's only needed for those who can't commercialize their talents).

>>25016432
you are brown i can smell it

>>25016435
struck a nerve, lol
this is why mixing readers and people desperate to live off readers in one general was a mistake

>>25016432
>They generally double-dip with releasing new books on RR
yeah but RR stops mattering because you cant get new readers from there, its all stubbed. new readers on rr come from people who read the books on amazon and move to the serial. so rating doesnt matter. thus, rating 1 star just comes off as cope and seethe. still kinda funny to do it though
>(free editing, and some retards pay for Patreon even if the author sells their books - it makes no sense to support an 'artist' who sells commercially, it's only needed for those who can't commercialize their talents).
people don't treat Patreon as sponsorship of an artist in the first place. they treat it as a product. authors without advance chapters get like 5% of the subs, almost no readers do it out of selfless support

>>25016439
i don't mind individuals pirating my shit because i know that if someone bothers to pirate they weren't going to buy/sub to begin with

i am merely stating a fact

>edgetts only works on chrome or opera
good lord chrome is slow... I just wanted to hear if my dialogue was smooth...

readercattle getting real uppity this thread

>>25016458
Post an excerpt here and I'll pass judgment.

>>25016416
I just don't pick up stubs, simple as

>>25016450
advance chapters make no sense at all
you get the same shit in the end (endless cliffhanger hell)

>>25016474
yeah I dont understand it either
Just comes down to major impulse disregulation

>>25016470
I picked up DCC and Beware of Chicken after they stubbed (both last year) and I enjoyed them well enough. BoC moreso than DCC, which I DNF'd the last published book and BoC I started following on RR (though not on patreon). I pirated both series but going forward I'm more likely to buy and recommend BoC.

Stubbing, while annoying to new readers, is just how the game is played. Pirating is easy enough, and in the past I used to check out books from libraries, which is effectively the same thing. Personally I've committed to never stubbing my first fiction series on RR, but I have a bonus book that's not on RR at all, exclusive to Patreon and Amazon/KU, and future books will stub when I feel like I've picked up as much RR audience as I'm gonna get and they're ready for KU.

Authors have the right to try to get paid for their work and readers have the right to try to pirate the works. Everything is in balance.

>>25016474
>>25016475
Readers (cattle) are burdened by having too much money. Advance Chapter Authors help readers by relieving them of the burden of having too much money. Everyone is happy.

>>25016470
>>25016416
Sometimes I don't even read it, just one star it out of principle. But if the first few chapters that always get left are good enough I may bother to pirate it.

In a way it helps, because if it's slop I may continue reading on RR. If I have to open another site I realize it's not worth it and move on.

>>25016479
>Pirating is easy enough
Yeah but it's more effort than it's worth. Those stories are always trash. Nothing on RR is so good your life will be worse by missing it.

>>25016493
most of the best stories do get stubbed tho so if youre looking for good slop...

>>25016481
Kinda sad, that the people paying are even more disrespected than seven seas (in this case anna) chads. Even by the authors (people profiting from them). Poor, unloved goys.

>>25016493
It's literally not, because then I get the epub with better editing and I can read it on my device with the reader of my choice without needing an internet connection. It's a better experience. Sometimes even when something isn't stubbed if there's an epub already up I'll just grab that, or if it's a thousand chapter monstrosity I'll use web2epub and make my own epub.

The RR website reading experience is decisively mid, and sometimes cell service in my gym is slow.

I understand being upset at stubbing I just don't feel that way.

>>25016496
>slop
>good
It's slop. It's not supposed to be good.

>>25016499
I assure you I love my paying readers very much. Much more than pirates. I'm happy to entertain them, and they're happy to pay me to do so. If I could actually stop pirates I'd do so but I've accepted the fact that it's materially impossible to do so, always has been and always will be.

>>25016503
To me the epub is worse experience than the site (part of the experience is reading/writing comments). So even for free it's not worth the time.

It's fully incomprehensible to pay for worse experience.

>>25016505
so, you're clearly larping as a reader

>>25016509
>Readers (cattle) are burdened by having too much money. Advance Chapter Authors help readers by relieving them of the burden of having too much money. Everyone is happy.
>I love my paying readers
OK

>>25016515
You can love someone without respecting their habits and choices, anon

I left wg because of the slop vs literature wars
now we just have readers vs authors wars

>>25016512
>you will pay more for less
>and you will like it, goy

>>25016520
The real redpill is every facet of humanity since the dawn of time has just been tribe vs tribe

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I get the money aspect of it, but I honestly enjoy when people read what I've made and have opinions about it more. If someone came up to me and told me they pirated my work, my first question would be 'So, what did you think of it?'. It's the people who care to read that matter to me most.
I don't know. Maybe I don't get the slop mindset, but that's how I see it.

>>25016479
Don't care, still not reading stubs. They will never get even a pirate from me

ill just make a general so specific only I'm allowed to post there

>>25016520
it's kinda amusing
in the same way as average poors defending multibillionaires and multibillion companies
an average aspiring author is just a temporarily embarassed future hit, so he gotta defend their interests

>>25016530
Damn, not even me?

>>25016515
Okay, real talk:
There are people in society with 20th century style do nothing office jobs who get paid $200k TC and literally have more money than they know what to do with. There's been a massive bifurcation in society, especially among the lower class. A lower class person today is either on the edge of destitution or literally has too much money.
18-25% of American workers make more than $100k/yr.
For them, $10 a month to read ahead on a webnovel is literally nothing. They spend $50+ per day on snacks and lunch at their do nothing office job. They go on cruise vacations. They shop at the expensive grocery stores for no other reason than it's nicer inside.
And some number of these blessed individuals like reading webnovels.
I provide them 15 minutes of entertainment three times a week, plus whatever time they spend daydreaming about what I'll make happen next in my story.
They give me $10/month.

I really do love and appreciate my paying readers, even though objectively they're paying for basically nothing and I would never make that spending decision myself. I poke fun at them but there's no ill will behind it.

>>25016529
are you the same guy that makes like 4 posts a thread about how you won't read X element either?
nobody cares man. its a good thing authors dont have you polluting their fiction. your click means nothing and you are in a superminority so you arent a brave voice speaking the truth either

>>25016540
especially you

>>25016512
This, I will never buy a novel unless I've finished the story because reading the thoughts of other readers to me is the web novel experience.

>>25016542
>A lower class person today...literally has too much money.
huh

>>25016527
Nah that's a perfectly healthy artist's mindset.

>>25016527
I've heard too many people give their braindead opinions at this point, I mostly want them to stfu

>>25016554
Class is not how much money you make, it's how you make your money.
Lower: trades time/labor for pay (wage or salary).
Middle: works for themselves, but still labors to earn money (from customers, think shop owners and independent contractors).
Upper: does no work at all, their investments provide a return without any effort on their part, solely for owning the investment. Think stock owners, or business owners who let employees manage everything.

There is significant "middle class" anymore, and hasn't been for a long time. Everyone is either upper or lower class for the most part, in terms of class identity and sharing class interests. A CEO, for example, is lower class, while a NEET who lives trading crypto is upper class (or perhaps middle class if you consider their trading activity to be labor).

>>25016542
>A lower class person today is either on the edge of destitution or literally has too much money.
So you're saying because society is the on the brink of collapse, you prosper?

>>25016567
>Class is not how much money you make, it's how you make your money.
No, Class is your combat archetype for leveling up

>>25016542
Honestly leaving aside all joking if it works for them and if it works for you then I'm happy for you. I could never pay for Patreon, since unironically I like reading comments. And there's always almost no comment on Patreon, and a lot on the free sites.
And it's not actually buying you anything (it's not like the story is at least complete on Patreon, you get the same cliffs).

But I feel like the middle class is collapsing, and lower class never has "too much" money.

>>25016567
I've never heard of the definition used this way

>>25016567
I think it's your own personal definition nobody subscribes to. Nowadays it always means wage brackets, nobody would think that a handyman with his own business is middle class and neurosurgeon making 5 times more money is lower class.
But words evolve, maybe you will change this.

>>25016576
Probably because it was setup to a punchline

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>come to thread to ask for tips on how to write my novel idea
>find out the middle social class is collapsing

>>25016581
my tip is to leave your house
after all you can't write what you don't know and this should mean that you should get more experiences, instead of limiting your stories

and if you don't know that the middle class is collapsing, then you severely lack life experiences

>>25016587
oh god its the /wg/er

>>25016591
unironically never tried to write shit (outside required assignments in school as a kid)
and never cared about writing
just heard this somewhere

>>25016567
A CEO is upper class because they don't actually have to work at all, they choose to. Which is the real divide. If you have to work to live, you are working class. If you don't, you are burgerwasi.

>>25016567
But anon isn't is true that the global middle class is the biggest it's ever been? and millions of people in india, indonesia and vietnam are actually entering the middle class from poverty? it's only the west that is suffering.

>>25016598
its a common pseudointellectual truism thrown around by new writers particularly in /wg/ (because theyre all both new and pseuds)
it might have some truth if your goal is to write a deeply literary work that wins awards etc, but you dont need to go to war or see the world to write web sloppa, be serious

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>>25016576
My understand of socio-economic class comes from Paul Fussel's book on the subject, picrel. It's not just "makes more or less than $50k/yr." The most meaningful distinction class, to me, is how one makes their money.
An independent plumber and a doctor both making $200k/yr have far less in common than that plumber and an entrepreneur making $1M/yr hustling, or the doctor and an office clerk making $40k/yr. Their political interests also line up better: the wagies want better benefits and more government services while the entrepreneurs want lower taxes and less regulations.

>>25016570
This is a good point, I'm going to stop veering off topic. The main point is that people with highly disposable income do exist and they do find value in paying authors for advance chapters.

>>25016532
Ah yes the scummy sloppers defending slop in the slop thread.
Not like us enlightened ones amirite anon

>>25016581
>come to thread to ask for tips on how to write my novel idea
The Brando Sando videos in the OP are actually really good info for new writers, in terms of things to keep in mind while writing. Although I definitely find the videos more helpful now after writing 400k words of mediocre fiction first, so that now I can see more clearly where I went wrong.

>>25015022
PICKED.
UP.

>>25016546
Still not reading stubs tho

>>25016581
>is collapsing
On a related note (and I am not accusing you of this behavior) but it is frightening and contemptible that newfags believe the most mundane of observable patterns and trends involving topics like productivity increasing over the past decades but wages not rising to match; the price of housing increasing with time; lack of worthwhile jobs; most resources (currency) hoarded by few hands; et al., as wild deep-brain literally-psychotic turbo-/x/-tier conspiracy theories.

>>25016659
?
this is common discourse in mainstream normie media for both political parties
the fuck are you on about with newfags, as if only 4chan oldfags have woken up to this idea

>>25016659
Normies are cattle and would rather complain about stupid shit, than the fact their way of life is being destroyed.

>>25016679
normies complain just as much about this, they don't do anything for the same reason you don't do anything. everyone will complain but no one will act

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I've been experimenting with writing the dialogue (and nothing else) first in something almost like a pre-zeroth draft or a barebones script. It's very fun and freeing... Maybe the most fun I've had writing in a long time. Anyone else tried something similar?
I'm thinking I'll give it a bit more direction with ideas about scene-sequel later. filling it out with context, description, etc is coming surprisingly late in all this but this way I have the conflict and tensions and even "voices" nailed first

>>25016670
Newfags tend to be the ignorant/sheltered type who believe in things like "karma", "just world fallacy" and "you can have anything if you "work hard""; the "toxic positivity" social media types.
Discourse on a lot of these topics has been completely different post-2016, as if certain ideas have become -too- popular and are now ridiculed.

>>25016692
That's basically how I do it too, though I also write fast and loose descriptions just so I know what the fuck is going on when I come back to fill it all out later.

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>>25016692
Any time I get stuck trying to write something good, I verbally (out loud) give myself permission to write it badly and just keep moving. This produces half-summary, half actual prose of the scenes I want full of notes to myself and half-completed thoughts, and then later I go back to a blank doc and rewrite it actually good now that I know what happens and I can just focus on the sentences. Also I count that kind of writing towards my daily word target even though it doesn't make it into any of the real drafts.

>>25016221
WOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH BUDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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>>25016700
Cool, I might try that too. I'm not a purist or being dogmatic about it. I was just particularly inspired to try this after re-reading parts of Asmimov's Foundation (originally sorta serialised btw) and there's a chapter that's written like a script/screenplay with back-and-forth dialogue and almost nothing else

>>25016708
That's similar to what I usually do but I still experienced some friction. Now that I've been writing dialogue only with much less of that feeling, I think that friction was my mind struggling with all the constant "context-switching" between notes, prose I potentially want to keep, and dialogue — along with the additional opportunities for my inner editor creeping in all of that entails

>>25016319
he paid 12bux a month and amazon gives the author a cut of that 12bux based on the number of pages he read.

>>25016458
Are you using the English Vadash verison? If you use the Russia source, site works fine on edge. https://edgetts.github.io/ You can also just post whenever you're working on into rentry without uploading, and switch the tab to preview.

>>25016325
KU is not included in prime, it's a separate paid subscription
t. not subscriped to KU

>>25016708
shinji/misato KINO

I wonder if amazon self publishing made things worse.

>>25016474
>advance chapters make no sense at all
as far as I see it there's like 3 audiences for this
A, people who binge the story and hit the end and want more NOW because it's just That Good and they really wanna keep reading
B, people who WERE initially in A (just subbed to binge all the advance chapters at once) and are now staying just because if they unsub they'll have to wait 1-2 months or whatever for the public chapters to catch up to where they were, and they don't wanna take that break
C. people who wanna hang out in discord and discuss the latest chapter and their reactions or fan theories or whatever and so 'need' to be up to date to be part of the cutting edge conversation

>>25016587
>my tip is to leave your house
nta but it's so over for me then. i can never be an author

>>25016930
I think there's also a small number who just want to support authors they like. I've noticed some people don't even read every chapter when it gets posted, they read in spurts. I assume they're supporting several different creators.

>>25016650
let us know how well thought out and cohesive the litrpg system is

>>25016964
Not him but it's actually unique and coherent and fits in really well with the transformation themes and the MMO itself. The character customization system is tied in with milestone perks, so if you do X number of actions (like say slay 50 slimes) your skin gets softer and your defense goes up, something like that. Being what it is, "get raped by wolves for ten hours" has beastification effects.
Instead of levels, number of milestones achieved total is used for general powerlevel ranking, and there are different branches of milestone tracks based on different divinities in the MMO, the lore of which gets tied into the plot really, really well.

It's honestly one of the top ten litrpg webnovels of all time in terms of writing quality. Aspiring authors would do well to study it.

>>25016957
Why don't you just write about a guy who stays home all the time, make it a cozy story or about a cultivator who is austically paranoid.

>>25016991
>if you do X number of actions (like say slay 50 slimes) your skin gets softer and your defense goes up, something like that.
reminds me of the title system in kumo desu ga and older japanese WNs like that. i liked that kind of system a lot although bad authors definitely had a lot of ways to misuse it by just randomly dropping perfect upgrades on the MC with no buildup

>>25017000
>kumo desu ga
Kino I don't think I've ever read a better monster evolution story.

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>Novel I am reading is soon to be stubbed
man the turn over is so fast these days.

>>25017019
Kumo's also one of the greats. I've never seen any literature use red herrings so masterfully, bar none.

>>25017039
yes, it is impossible to read now online... such a shame
>>25017040
its horrible, more like a haiku it got mass popularity because gals read it on their phones in that format
absolute micro chapters

>>25017048
I only ever read the LN. The editor must have cleaned it up a lot because it was perfectly legible in that format.
By contrast, Ascendance of a Bookworm's WN and LN (in moonrunes) are very nearly 1:1 copies. The only addition really is the extra stories and illustrations in the LN.

>>25017055
The original WN translation got pretty low quality after Blastron the fan translator dropped it since the successor group was some combination of ESL+MTL.

>>25017019
its just slapstick really

>>25017040
>I've never seen any literature use red herrings so masterfully, bar none.
I hate to shatter the illusion but it's just because it's web sloppa so he straight up either forgor or was throwing shit at the wall and people assumed red herrings when it was really whatever he felt like writing at the time

>>25017136
Cute. I wonder if we'll ever live long enough to see wizards make cards based on a web novel.

>>25017178
One of the biggest break out indie successes of recent years was a web novel
I honestly think we're still early too. It's obvious that the internet is the future for almost everything. Trad pub doesn't deserve to exist in its current form, and authors have realized it

>>25017203
dinniman (the DCC author) recently posted on r*ddit to expect a lot more litrpgs coming through tradpub because as the only known-by-normies name in the scene he's been getting reached out to for title page quotes a lot recently.

>>25017215
Interesting info anon
But I think tradpub is a leech of an industry and still too slow to adapt. I really do think they will choke out and die. Or rather, they'll only be dealing with distributing established works, and most new breakouts will be internet-based in one way or another.

>>25017223
I agree that they'll eventually get overtaken and go the way of the video store. But for now they have a hell of a lot more marketshare AND mindshare than selfpub online stuff does. Royalroad doesn't even have a wikipedia page man

>>25017039
>>25017048
I won't ever stub mine : )

>>25017215
He also said he has some crazy fans and that his family was moving because they were being harassed.

>>25017215
why is DCC so popular?

>>25017251
I'd think that's true for any public figure ever
>>25017258
It's probably top 5 in slop that i've read and I don't even like that style of slop.

>>25017258
Do you have a point with this or do you just want to be a special snowflake for not liking the popular piece of fiction?
Captcha: XGOY

>>25017275
Has anyone ever told you, you type in a discouraging manner?
Captcha: Some dice and shapes

>>25017287
I felt like I was pushing back against an annoying retard
Was the question "why is popular fiction popular" a real, earnest question? I thought it was some snarky fuck

>>25017125
Oh so Okina Baba just accidentally wrote the best red herrings in all literature? Okay, sure. So he's even more of genius than I thought before. And it's not like he did it once, he did it multiple times throughout the series, from basically chapter one all the way to the end.

>>25017301
Which red herrings?

>>25017275
>>25017289
Autist

>>25017289
Yes, the question was earnest, I figured in a place like this people would have given it some thought in an attempt to ape its success if the source was a trope or genre.
or at the very least, a reader would share why they enjoy the work so much.
If I wanted to shit on it, I'd at least have read it before I did.

>>25017306
You really posted "Why is Avengers: Endgame popular?"
Without elaboration?
At a certain point it's 100% your fault

Don't insult DCC by comparing it to the Avengers with this stupid argumentum ad populum bullshit.

>>25017289
>Was the question "why is popular fiction popular" a real, earnest question?
Why wouldn't it be? It's a perfectly cromulent question for a writing thread. DCC on the face of it doesn't really seem like something that would pop off.
The answer is that the character writing and melodrama of it all are really, really good. The litrpg stuff is just set dressing and inconsistent to make the plot happen. The TV show framing of it all makes dungeon crawling relatable to normalfaggots. Overall it hits a sweet spot of wacky and crass and dramatic which also allows people to visibly like it (on social media). Whoa, this weird book of a guy in boxer shorts and an ugly cat is... le good???

The only thing Dinniman doesn't do well is pacing, but he's a sloppa at heart so it makes sense that arcs would expand a lot, which gives him more room to do character scenes.

overall the only reason I wouldn't recommend it is that it's a little TOO crass, and it's definitely too long. I can't recommend a series of long books like that until it's done.

>>25017312
Avengers is better than DCC though

>>25017312
Also I've noticed the dude that constantly vague posts and refuses to reply to the post he's responding to is the turbo faggot that always baits arguments. Anyone else?

>>25017309
>"Why is Avengers: Endgame popular?"
Shit if you look at how marvel is performing recently, they aren't aware either.

>>25017305
Off the top of my head: (light spoilers) the title, the true identities of half a dozen characters, the mind control stuff, and the chronological placement in the plot of the various POV chapters that contribute to the red herrings for the above things. I'm not going to spoil it all entirely, the series is best enjoyed going into it almost totally blind.

>>25017316
>DCC on the face of it doesn't really seem like something that would pop off.
It's one of the only series in the entire web novel space that's written with competent prose. Most people aren't willing to read a high schooler's rambling, even if most web readers are.
Add that to decent pacing and actually formatting the series in book format (and not endless arcs that don't have definitive endings like other serials) and it's no surprise at all it blew up, in my opinion.
It's slop that presented itself as readable genre fiction. And slop is popular, people just don't like slop that's too obvious about it.
Like what else even competes by those normie standards? I can't think of any, genuinely. I like a lot of series better but DCC is the most normie and is solid all around.

>>25017316
>The only thing Dinniman doesn't do well is pacing
I reread your post after responding and, what? I almost doubt you actually read web novels. DCC is better paced than almost all web fiction I've ever read. Web fiction is grotesque about pacing. It's not that I'm praising DCC's pacing in an objective sense, but it's vaguely similar to trad books, at least

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>>25017326
I have to strongly disagree with you on the pacing. Each book is long as fuck and after the first, only covers one of like at max 16 floors. The books don't need to be that fucking long. We don't need a giant puzzle about infinite trains going for 500 pages to resolve that book. It's dumb. The only reason that shit is tolerated is that it gives narrative space for a lot of character scenes.

As for the prose, it's passable. Yeah it's got good grammar but that's what you'd expect from an edited tradpubbed novel.

Here's an excerpt from royalroad. Look at the prose. It's nothing special.
>but look at this ESL garbage on RS!
Yeah, everyone else is bad, but nobody picked up DCC because they heard the PROSE of all fucking things was "good." And it's not even good, compared to the classics. It's mediocre to bad. It's just not grammatically incorrect.

>This wasn’t the US Capitol building. It was similar in architecture, but not quite. This was El Capitol. The historic capitol building in downtown Havana.

Look at that shit.

>>25017340
>I have to strongly disagree with you on the pacing.
Okay but then I really do have to ask, what web serials are you reading with better pacing?

>>25017340
Ugh you've gotta be a poser. After reading this shitpost of a response I really am convinced you don't read web novels
I already answered you with
>It's slop that presented itself as readable genre fiction. And slop is popular, people just don't like slop that's too obvious about it.

Nothing about DCC is special. But it's dopamine-focused while meeting bare minimum tradpub standards. People don't want to read pseud nonsense like what trad pumps out these days. In the modern age people want dopamine. DCC provides it. It's the web novel that bridged the gap.

>>25017328
I don't think you're even talking about pacing. You're talking about narrative structure into episodes (books). I'm talking about why does each of these floors need to be 600-700 pages long? How long is this entire story going to be? The books themselves get extremely repetitive with the characters fumbling around "solving the puzzle" at precisely the speed needed to allow these overwrought character scenes to dump melodrama. Granted, people like that, but it's tiring.

At the point I DNF'd in book 7, there had been the barest hint of larger plot progression with things outside the dungeon, which did nothing to make me care about the larger universe's issues while also cheapening what was going on in the dungeon and the character dramas that were happening. That's bad pacing.

>>25017352
Answer the damn question >>25017343

>>25017258
for one thing it's a comedy novel rather than a serious action/powerfantasy so it's a lot easier for general readers to accept "lol vidya mechanics everywhere"

>>25016011
This little nigga is having nightmares about mean comments when he doesn't even has readers kek

>>25017364
An average aspiring author is just a temporarily embarrassed future hit.

>>25017352
The end of the last book has had the largest plot thing so far.

>>25017340
Go back to /wg/

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>>25017343
Funny enough, Beware of Chicken. There are episodic plots but things unfold much more naturally and the story isn't afraid to slow down with low stakes character scenes/chapters between the high stakes fight scenes/chapters. Conflicts actually close, and the consequences of those conflicts lead to the next ones more naturally.
As much as I despise the author and other aspects of the story, Foxfire Esq has good pacing.
Just Add Mana does a poor job of pacing. Too much going on, too fast, not enough room to breathe.
Song of the Gift Giver is doing the worst job of pacing I've ever seen. Keep in mind I'm saying the pacing in DCC isn't good, not that it's the worst ever. Song blows DCC out of the water in terms of bad pacing.
1% Lifesteal does a little better job than DCC with pacing, but is worse with character melodrama.

>>25017350
>>It's slop that presented itself as readable genre fiction. And slop is popular, people just don't like slop that's too obvious about it.
There's plenty of "readable" genre fiction, but that's not what was said.
>It's one of the only series in the entire web novel space that's written with competent prose
This isn't true, there's plenty of "competent" prose that if it went through a tradpub editor's hands would be on the same level as DCC (which nobody reads as WN anyway, they read the published novels).

If you're getting mad that I criticized DCC, you need to calm down. It's not the end of the world when someone doesn't like something you like.

>>25017340
>when they (usually) make fun of Mordecai's new form at the beginning of each floor
D:

>>25017375
>nobody reads as WN anyway
This is his latest patreon chapter. That's a lot of comments and that's just people who bother to post: https://kemono.cr/patreon/user/5429305/post/147606969

>>25017372
Maybe I'll pick it back up, I dunno. I'm just over it. I can only have my melodrama cry now button pushed so many times in a story before I'm just all out of fucks to give.

>>25017361
This is a good point as well and unfortunately there's a certain subset of utter faggots who think "lol foot fetish! he has to wear boxers because foot fetish! man feet!" is the height of comedy.
The sex humor of DCC is the most off-putting thing of it. You'd think it might be the callous disregard for human life and the genocide stuff but no, it manages to be the sex shit.

>>25017375
You've convinced me you aren't a larper so I will calm down
But I don't trust your judgment. BOC does not have better pacing than DCC. The thing is, pacing is a catch-all term people use to mean "am I engaged from moment to moment?" It's basically impossible to evaluate this from an objective standpoint. But I had to skim or skip big portions of BOC's pointless, dreadfully boring slice of life scenes or cringeworthy romance. I found DCC consistently a 7/10, sometimes dipping into a 8/10, maybe even 9/10 once or twice. BOC was a 6/10 that dipped into a 8/10, which is why I would rate it lower than DCC. Though it's still up there for web fic.

>prose
You still are misunderstanding my point. It's not just prose. It's that it has decent prose, decent pacing, is formatted as a proper book with narrative arcs (BOC is not at all), and so on.
It's slop that fits the tradpub mold. So it took off.

>>25017383
86 comments on patreon and the last BoC chapter on RR has 191 comments. The latest BoC patreon chapter posted 40 minutes ago and already has 50 comments, the one before that was posted four days ago and has 115 comments.

Yeah that's a lot of comments but the vast majority of DCC readers read the tradpubbed novels when they get published.

And you disregarded by criticism of Dinniman's prose despite making that a big part of your point before. Now you're deflecting to other issues.

I'm not going to respond anymore. If you want to take that as a victory, go ahead, but I don't care to engage with an anon beclowning himself over r****t's favorite litrpg book series.

>>25017387
I suppose ultimately our disagreement is a matter of taste then.
Also, to rag on myself for a second, Dinniman is wildly successful and I ain't: if nothing else he's a much better author than I, and his opinion would count for more if he was here to argue.

>>25017370
Absolute cope

>>25017392
dude im nta but i can't even tell what you're trying to say here. wtf. who's side are you on? actual ESL rambling
the fuck does
>And you disregarded by criticism of Dinniman's prose despite making that a big part of your point before.
mean??

>>25017397
>I suppose ultimately our disagreement is a matter of taste then.
It's art, so taste is always the source of the disagreement. Which is why I found the question "why is popular fiction popular?" so utterly exhausting. It's unanswerable and usually just bait. As if we would find the answer in some niche thread for a niche subdomain of a niche modern medium of art

>>25017392
I'm not the guy you were arguing with--wanted to chime in since you mentioned your vague claim that a lot of people don't read the individual chapters. I'm sure he has many more comments on meatier chapters or releases where he drops full .epubs. Have a nice night, anon.

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>>25017401
I dunno I think the discussion and argument was valuable at least to some extent.

>>25017404
I don't have hard data but I'm fairly certain that most of the DCC readerbase is on tradpub'd novels, not the serialized WN. I could be wrong but I doubt it since he's sold massive amounts of books.
>Have a nice night, anon.
You too man I gotta stop staying up so late. Not good for my health.

>>25017387
>But I had to skim or skip big portions of BOC's pointless, dreadfully boring slice of life scenes or cringeworthy romance.
There's a difference between a book having bad pacing and a book having subjects you don't care about and aren't interested in (but others are)

>>25017410
So what do you think pacing means? You think it can objectively be defined beyond "it keeps me interested and turning pages"?

>>25017411
i'm not the anon you're arguing with i just thought your description of bad pacing was really retarded

>>25017410
I think mother of learning arc 1 has good pacing, I think arc 3 has bad pacing, I think arc 3 & 4 should be fused.
I think it's a worse story due to the protagonist, but I think PTR has better pacing and I think the Monaco section is an interesting side story that only enhances the story.
None of this is really relevant, I just wanted to say it.

>>25017413
What? My question was entirely addressed to you, I didn't assume you were the prior anon. You obviously weren't.

>>25017415
>PTR
I'm webnovel addicted and have no clue what this is. Use acronyms for big stories, anon, nothing else.
I even typed in PTR royalroad and got zero hits.

>>25017421
Typo. sorry anon that should be.
TPR or The perfect run by Void Herald.

>>25017423
TPR might have good pacing, wouldn't know. But the dialogue is awful, people don't act like humans

>>25017411
Of course pacing can be objectively defined, described, whatever you want to call it:
https://www.scribophile.com/academy/what-is-pacing
>If your entire novel is fast paced from start to finish, it can begin to feel tiring and your reader can become desensitized to the narrative twists and turns. If your entire novel is slow paced, it can be challenging to hold the reader’s attention.
This is exactly my problem with DCC, described in the article. The entire thing is too fast paced with too much unresolved tension, and the books are too long to support thriller-style pacing. I find them exhausting to read, especially with all the emotional, melodramatic gut punches being the only interruption between action scenes.
>To a certain degree, the efficacy of these stories comes down to reader preference. Some readers love tense, high-stakes, seat-of-the-pants thrillers, while others might find them too chaotic and overwhelming. Some readers enjoy the honest humanity of slower, subtler stories, while other readers can find them boring. Stories with the best pacing usually fall somewhere in between these two extremes, balancing active action scenes with more relaxed character development.
Overall I'd say this is a good article on the topic for anyone who hasn't written before.

>>25017428
did you just link a random buzzfeed article as an objective description of one of the most classic, nebulous terms in all of writing?
you have to be trolling. I genuinely am praying for you that you are trolling.

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>>25017438
I googled around for a few minutes and this wasn't even close to the worst article I found. If you know a better intro to pacing let us all know. The Sanderson lectures in the OP barely touch on pacing at all, except that he says it impacts book length (as in you can't have fast thriller pacing for more than a few hundred pages as it wears out readers).

>>25017428
>The entire thing is too fast paced with too much unresolved tension
That is literally a story element lol

>>25017441
I don't have a better source because my point (from the start) is that pacing is a nonsense term and any experienced author knows it
There is no objective definition because it is literally just "do I have fun the whole way through or do I start skimming"

>>25017447
That's fine but then the books are too long. The dungeon crawl should be condensed massively. Which would then necessitate cutting out a lot of the character melodrama.

It also doesn't have to be this way. There are points where Dinniman skips over several hours and days here and there. There's room in the narrative structure for those periods to slow down the pacing and let the story breathe for a bit. Dinniman makes a conscious choice not to do so. I think that hurts the novels objectively and it personally turned me off. But I also recognize he's far more successful than me so clearly he's doing something right (I still don't think it's the pacing; it's the characters and their melodrama).

>>25017449
Okay cool congrats on fully understanding everything and/or having decided it's impossible to know or try to know anything so you're above it all. You win an internet, take the one I posted above.

>>25017427
I cannot disagree. Rereading it now, I cannot make it past more a than a couple chapters.
I will read voids newer works, maybe "The Hundred Reigns" has better dialog.

>>25017465
>Okay cool congrats on fully understanding everything and/or having decided it's impossible to know or try to know anything so you're above it all. You win an internet, take the one I posted above.
Kinda a faggy response. You couldn't even articulate your supposed point, you linked a buzzfeed article full of subjective phrasing for your disagreement that pacing is somehow, actually, objective
if you disagree write why, fucker

>>25017471
Obviously there's good and bad pacing, and obviously pacing as a concept exists. You have tom clancy novels towards one end, and Lord of the Rings towards the other. Different genres tend to have different kinds of pacing, and this is all observable.
But I don't know enough about pacing to say much more than that. I have made my opinions known about DCC's pacing.
Also, apparently Aristotle wrote about pacing in Poetics. I should have just started there. Also I need to read Poetics anyway.

>>25017465
I wouldn't mind seeing entire chapters of dialogue between Carl and other Crawlers. In the safe rooms, wherever. Some forced downtime.

>>25017486
Even this argument is about a meta description of how people as a whole subjectively define some works as better paced than others
Objective means factual. Clear definitions beyond refute. 1+1 = 2.
At least agree pacing is subjective so we can work forward from there. Trying to insist it's objective is one of the the least defensible points I've seen in /wng/