Is Freud worth reading? His obsession with incest has always put me off but recently I saw someone mention his concept of suffering being when our ego is too far from our ego ideal, which really resonated with me.
>>25020619>At times, Freud was unable to repress an unjustified but ferocious anti-Americanism, so that he would declare, for example, that his disciples from across the Atlantic were good for nothing but bringing him dollars. Once he declared before a stunned interlocutor that the Statue of Liberty could be replaced "by a monkey holding a Bible." On another occasion he asserted before one of his students who was in analysis with him that the Americans were so stupid that their mode of thinking could be reduced to a ridiculous syllogism: "You Americans are like this: garlic's good; chocolate's good - let's put a little garlic on chocolate and eat it!"
Yes, read Freud. It gives one an intellectual exercise. Especially to organize the human brain as it is.
>>25020623>the Statue of Liberty could be replaced "by a monkey holding a Bible." I mean...
>>25020623Interesting. He could have [repressed] his thoughts.
>>25020619Lacan mogsStart with Lacan and end with LacanFreud was a literal hack, a charlatan jew whose only aim was making money off of gullible retards (i do kinda respect him for that tbqh)
>>25020619>suffering being when our ego is too far from our ego idealYep, that's me. You're probably wondering how I got into this situation
>>25020619>recently I saw someone mention his concept of suffering being when our ego is too far from our ego ideal, which really resonated with me.esoteric retardation, surely that is a definition of the cause of suffering
>>25020619>Is Freud worth reading?Yes, but don't make the mistake of thinking that psychoanalysis began and ended with Freud. You should read him, but it continued (and continues) to develop -- check out Bion, Klein, etc. Lacan if you want. But absolutely read Freud. Don't start with Interpretation. Start with Introductory Lectures on Psychoanalysis, then the New Introductory Lectures, then Interpretation. The case studies are great too. Alternatively, get a copy of The Freud Reader ed. Peter Gay, it's the best selection of Freud's work.
>>25020623kind of odd how these "people" talk out of their ass about Americans yet depend on their tax dollars. very curious. its like how niggers want gibs but then still complain they're not satisfied.
>>25020799what about fields like Gestalt, Behaviorism or Cognitivism? worth checking out?
>>25020788your post itself is "esoteric retardation." how are you adding any additional informatino to the statement by saying it's not suffering but the cause of suffering. that's like saying lightning causes a big flash of light, when really lightning is that big flash of light.
>>25021850>suffering is different from the cause of suffering??? DUMB!>that's like saying lightning causes a big flash of light, when really lightning is that big flash of light.simultaneously wrong and a bad analogy, incredible
>>25021893if freuds concept of sufering is this thing, then this thing is not distinct from suffering, but identical to it. you are simply stupid.
>>25021915if i'm in mental anguish aka suffering because "my ego is too far from our ego ideal" then "my ego is too far from our ego ideal" isn't suffering, but the cause of suffering. very simple stuff
>>25021935yes, but if you examine your own statement, you added a "because" in between, which means that you are simply making a tautological statement. the correct way of phrasing it would be that you are suffering WHEN your ego is too far from your ego ideal.
>>25021943>the correct way of phrasing it would be that you are suffering WHEN your ego is too far from your ego ideal.do i suffer when i am wounded or do i suffer because i am wounded? the answer is both, but in both suffering and the wound are not synonymous BECAUSE the answer is both-the wound causes suffering ergo the wound and suffering are separate.
>>25021953you can be wounded and not suffer though. you can experience great pain and not suffer. suffering is a felt ownership of that pain. not just pain but the sense of "I am in pain -- this is bad!"
>>25021963>you can be wounded and not suffer thoughso the cause of suffering and suffering itself is not connected?>you can experience great pain and not suffernot my definition of suffering-i would define it as great pain>suffering is a felt ownership of that pain. not just pain but the sense of "I am in pain -- this is bad!"i disagree and have no idea how you can reconcile this with "suffering is when my ego is too far from our ego ideal"
>>25021969An athelete in flow state can feel pain without necessarily feeling it as suffering.A masochist can feel pleasure from pain and not suffer. The important mechanism here is how can pain cause suffering. If we go by the concept of suffering as provided by the OP, it would be that the ego doesn't want to experience pain, which is understandable as it is usually a sign of damage or danger. but if the ego accepted the pain, or if there was no ego, there would be no suffering. so freuds concept, if we trust the OP, makes a distinction between pain/discomfort and suffering. suffering here specifically means the ego wanting to escape the suffering in favor of an ideal painfree state. in short, "my ego is too far from my ego ideal"
>>25021986so your definition of suffering is one that doesn't mean mental or physical pain? fine, that's esoteric
>>25021991if you mean esoteric as in needlessly convoluted, then no. because it is not needless. it adds additional information. your own concept, is flattening, because it erases important distinctions and cannot account for the examples I provided, with the athelete and the masochist.
>>25022002i mean esoteric as in fucking weird. might as well use a different word than "suffering"
>>25022008so what word would fit better you think?
>>25022016samurai pizza cats
>>25020619>His obsession with incestIt's YOUR obsession with incest, Frued's just pointing it out
>>25021829Explain how Freud benefitted from American tax dollars. I'll wait.
>>25020619>Is Freud worth reading?Yes, if you take his biases into account, especially his obsession with eroticism. His identification of the id, ego and superego is still valid, for example. As is his recognition of the personal unconscious.
>>25020619I avoided reading him for a long time. Now that I have, he really was just right about everything.Maybe not the stages of development, but just about everything else.He is impotently despised by later thinkers and academics who he denied a share of the glory to. They are all in cuckold status of the basest order, because to put forth any competing understanding of the mechanisms of action in the human psyche without resorting to schizo crack pipe ripping Jungian babble would be so obviously ridiculous and pathetic it would cause mind breaking secondhand embarrassment.>uh let’s just… uhhhh… let’s not worry too much about mechanisms of action. Let’s just uhm…study what people do in the event and call it psychologyLmao. Embarrassing desu.
>>25022410psychology is wrong, but that doesn't mean freud is right.
>>25022410Jung utterly mogged Frued in every possible way.
>>25022023Kek, almost baited me into replying
>>25023069But you did reply though.
>>25020619>Sigmund G. Froyd
>>25020623Freud was right about everything an I'm tired of pretending he wasn't.
>>25022680Deleuze and Guattari absolutely annihilate all modern psychoanalysis.
Yes but TLP is better
>>25020696Lacan would absolutely insist on you reading Freud, pleb.>>25023151Childish post. They are a corrective, not a refutation. I bet you haven't read Logic of Sense or Guattari's solo work.>>25020799Good reading list. I would add that the book Freud and Beyond is a good overview of Freud and various post Freudian developments like Bion and Klein and Lacan etc.
>>25023172>Childish post. No shit.>They are a corrective, not a refutation.Never made a claim to the contrary. This was partly the reason why I specified "modern" psychoanalysis. But really, again you are looking for substantial rhetoric in a low effort shit post about philosophical "mogging".>I bet you haven't read Logic of Sense Yes.>or Guattari's solo work.Wrong.
>>25020619"Is Freud worth reading? His obsession with incest has always put me off"You should also stay away from Anime and Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire.
>>25023529Also ancient Greek literature and any books written by Japanese.
>>25020619Read him and then Lacan, that's all "psychology" you need honestly. Lacan will help you understand him better and to avoid common misunderstandings. >>25023151Deleuze and Guattari call schizoanalysis a political and materialist psychoanalysis, so they are basically opening psychoanalysis to new territories and possibilities. Later Lacan takes influence from them, too.
>>25023151How so?
>>25024053This. Also read modern psychoanalytic/psychodynamic theory, see Jonathan Shedler's work for an intro to it. Neuropsychoanalysis, which looks into the relations between modern psychoanalysis and neuroscience, is also worth looking into once you're done with Freud, Lacan and Shedler.
>>25020623This post upset me last night.Late this morning, I walked into a coworker’s cubicle to find him eating chocolate hummus. That you yurofags eat lunch meat off the plate for breakfast like savages is of little consolation.This round, I concede.
How fo I get into psychoanalysis/psychodynamics bros? I alteady I'm already comprehensively read on psychology more generally.
>>25020619>When you fall short of your ideals, you suffer You could get this much from proverbs surely?
>>25020619Consider the popularity of incest/taboo porn and maybe Freud wasn't so wrong about the thing he's criticized the most for.Of all porn that actually sells, taboo sells the best.Daddy talk, mommy talk, sister, aunt.Freud was right, even if people rarely are attracted to their real relations, there's this deep allure for maternal+sex or paternal+sex experience, to be coddled.>consider that married couples are technically 'siblings in law' since the other's parents become your X in lawIn some cultures it was explicitly implied that your wife becomes for you what your mother was -sex—or they become your 'true sibling', as in ancient Egypt. In love you are meant to become the full reality of what every other type of relation was preparation for. Your wife is the sister and nurturing breast, the pastures of rest and regrowth, for your soul.
>>25025215>Consider the popularity of incest/taboo pornIs this true?The wife is like sister is just obvious and shouldn't be controversial. Ironically its because people are perverse that they rely on these taboos and are afraid of admitting the obvious. No one denies that your love for your parents precedes and mediates your future experience of love--which is all that Freud is saying.>>25020619For me he was, I read him when I was 18 and was totally taken up by his system. Mostly it was a great help in introspection. There's something both spiritual and tangible about freud which is really compelling. Now I have lost interest in his system and find it boring/obvious but it certainly left its mark on my thinking. Now I think Nietzsche and Weininger are better psychologists.
Like its in the Bible. Freud is so perverse!9 Thou hast ravished my heart, my sister, my spouse; thou hast ravished my heart with one of thine eyes, with one chain of thy neck.10 How fair is thy love, my sister, my spouse! how much better is thy love than wine! and the smell of thine ointments than all spices!11 Thy lips, O my spouse, drop as the honeycomb: honey and milk are under thy tongue; and the smell of thy garments is like the smell of Lebanon.12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
>>25025174Yes but "fall short" implies that your ideals are always correct and when the ego is too far from the ego ideals it is always *your* fault for not being good enough.But the beauty of this theory is that you can actually reduce the distance by moving either end. Sometimes we already have everything we need to be satisfied and happy but we just cant see it because we have some deluded ideal in our head we think we need to reach before we can allow ourselves to be happy.Like guys who think they can only love themselves if they go to the gym 7 days a week without fail. Or women who can't be happy in a relationship unless the man is making over 6 figures.
>>25025215Half the porn I watch is probably incest porn but thats just because A) 50% of porn seems to be titled that nowadays and it's unavoidable and B) normal porn is so devoid of intimacy that step mother/sister porn is the only way to get a "woman who loves you takes care of you" or "girl you have had a crush on for years finally has sex with you" experience. I don't actually consider myself to be turned on by real world incest and I don't think I would watch these videos if the actors actually were related. So the "popularity" stats of this kind of content probably don't actually tell you much.But yes I will concede there definitely is a lot of sexual excitement around taboo and fantsy, I just don't think that extends to "every man secretly wants to fuck his real world mother".
I REALLY want to fuck my little sister, and I mean REALLY want to fuck her -- in the arse and everything. Like, an unhealthy, debilitating obsession with wanting to fuck my little sister that's been going on since we were teenagers. I've been dropping subtle hints (gradually becoming less subtle), and I think she's finally starting to reciprocate my advances...The only problem? -- I don't have a little sister...
>>25025659>>>/x/ is that way, also please consult your nearest therapist
>Is this guy whose middle name was literally Schlomo worth reading?
>>25022410Freud is easy to follow, which means once you deal with his views as a consequence of doing a somewhat real job, and then to make sense of how the human layering is built, he gets to deliver a very logical progression and explanation of how a lot of the core cogs work and connect. Or rather: What is the true insight gleamed from observing and correctly connecting the dots of the infant phase, and then painting a vivid image of how it connects to adult life.The catch remains that once you have read and digested FreudYou can't take the surface interpretation of his work seriously. Just be honest with yourself, there is no real flowery language over selling sculptures and painting of you fucking your married pornstar, its all failing to connect the dots.
