Previous: >>25007029 /wg/ AUTHORS & FLASH FICTION: https://pastebin.com/ruwQj7xQRESOURCES & RECOMMENDATIONS: https://pastebin.com/nFxdiQvCPlease limit excerpts to one post.Give advice as much as you receive it to the best of your ability.Discuss the written works below for practice; contribute, and you shall receive.If you have not performed a cursory proofread, do not expect to be treated kindly. Edit your work for spelling and grammar before posting.People crying about critique should be ignored and reported. Beginner guides on writing:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHdzv1NfZRM [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whPnobbck9s [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAKcbvioxFk [Embed]
Let's settle this: Do you need to read in order to write well?
>>25020772No, obviously not.
>>25020779Why is it obvious?
>>25020772If reading is required to be a good writer, why does your writing suck?
>>25020839learn the difference between necessary and sufficient conditions, dummy
>>25020842So you're not going to disagree that your writing sucks?
>>25020772Yes, at least once. Or at least your own work.>>25020848The only thing about my writing that sucks is the process of sucking joy from your soul.
>>25020860I don't read your writing. Nobody does, because it sucks. That's what excessive reading gets you, shitty writing and a shitty attitude about it.
>you have to do a totally unrelated hobby to be good at another hobbyThis is the level of discourse in the "writers" thread I see
>>25020764>NOOOOOO YOU CAN'T BE GOOD AT WRITING WITHOUT READING THE ENTIRE WESTERN CANON THAT WOULD MEAN I DID ALL OF THAT READING FOR NOTHING
>>25020905retard
why are all trad pubbed authors avid readers? literally every single one
>>25020917Why are so many failed writers avid readers? Every single one.
>>25020917>trad pubbed authorsnepo babies? gee that's relevant
>>25020923doesnt contradict anything dimwit
insane levels of cope from the illiterate retards here
There's something genuinely repulsive about knowing that this guy has been baking this general for years just to troll in it all day.
>>25020966i havent been here for like 2 months. looks like you read the situation like you read books
>wants to be a director>doesnt watch movieswow that sounds absolutely fucking idiotic
>>25020962Answer the question. If excessive reading had anything to do with being a good writer, why are excessive readers almost exclusively shitty, failed writers?
>>25020975>can't form an argument>uses a shitty comparison or metaphor to try to prove his point>looks even stupider in the processmany such cases
>>25020977avid is not synonymous with excessive>>25020994it's probably the perfect comparison
>>25021000>avid is not synonymous with excessiveWhat you're calling avid I'm calling excessive.>still evading the questionYou know that you're wrong and you're trying to spare your dignity. That's ridiculous, you don't have any.
>>25020882But you just did? I dont read accessively either, I mostly write, and I have a great attitude, I'm just depressing.So that was 4 things you were wrong about. Neat.
>>25021006i know i'm right, and i have god on my side (brandon sanderson)
>>25021020>Still won't answer the questionI accept your concession. The matter is resolved, reading doesn't make you a good writer.
>>25021039but reading is essential to being a good writer
>>25021049Being a slut doesn't make you good at sex.
>>25021077you might come up with analogies half as good as mine if you read
>>25021087You might sell half as many books as I do if you stopped.
yay I managed to get some writing done todayit's not much, and it's not very good, but it's something
"flea, you fools!" he shouted accessively as he hurdled across the sky.
>>25021366oh god i'm gonna huuuuuuurdle i'm huuuuuuuuuuuurdling
>>25021077i beg to differ
>>25021446It's not up for debate. Your mom is a humungous slut but she's a dead fish in the sack.
>>25021077This one works>>25021446You can beg all you want but he's right.
The bird plucked a feather from his wings, dipped it in the ink and started writing:"Dear faggots, shut the fuck up and write a few lines of some dumb fictional shit to remind me how superior I am to you illiterate retards."When the hordes of braindead faggots received the letter they all agreed they were useless niggers and killed themselves.
How do we write horror fiction if we've never been truly terrified?
>>25021637This is unrealistic because you wrote this and you're a braindead faggot who isn't dead yet.
>>25021668Never being terrified is terrifying in itself. Imagine living a life like that then being thrust into a bad situation for the first time. You'd have a heart attack and just die. You could write a book about that.
>>25021668If you've not been horrified then you haven't been paying attention.
>>25021717Your "critiques" are not helping anyone. If you want to help then provide examples of writing, good or bad. Stop being cancer.
>>25021668Unsettled is close. How do have you never been terrified?
>>25021806I've been scared a lot, but never to true inaction.I figure proper terror just makes someone shut down, even as the knife descends to take their life.
>>25021810Terror isn't horror.
>>25020764Any knowers?>Planet has two moons>One moon is closer and bigger of SILVER color>Other moon is farther and smaller of RED colorWhat color would be the moonlight in the night when the two of them in the sky? Pinkish?Also since other moon is orbiting farther, will there be times in the night where only one moon is visible? Im dumbass at that sorry.
>>25021847It would be a mix but you probably wouldn't notice. The smaller red moon isn't contributing much and we don't see color very well at night.
>>25021847The red one might still end up blue irl due to atmospheric scattering or whatever but it doesn't matter, it's le mystery how it ends up looking so red.
>>25021790critiques are also examples of writing.
>>25021987They can be but in these threads they're not.
>>25022030Sure they are. This critique of your critique is writing as much as your critique of a critique being writing is writing. Just because you're silly doesnt mean everyone is.
I'm doing what Tolkien couldn'tI'm going where he wouldn'tThere and beyond
>>25020915readtard
>>25022084Every supposed "critique" in these threads is worthless beyond correcting spelling, which a robot can do.
i need to get disciplined
>>25022255Actually no. Even my critique of your critique critiquing critiques is both apt and worthwhile beyond spelling; actual ones are even better. At minimum for semantics in addition in this frame, but there are a wide variety of things I can help with, like plot, voice, diction, and various stylistic elements.For example, correcting spelling isnt a critique; it's a correction. Consistent spelling mistakes being pointed out as a pattern across would be a critique because it would be an extension of detailed analysis in the context of literary theory, whereas a correcting a mistake is a critique in so far as it's an expression of disapproval, which is a coloquial and weaker usage. Putting "critique" in scare quotes is incorrect, because you're implying that the critiques are not critiques, but critiques in name only, and then you undermine your initial premise immediately afterwards, even if it's qualified. Not very effective from a rhetorical point of view. "Bot" refers to an automated process or a script in an editorial context, and a robot usually refers to an automaton, so saying a robot could fix the spelling is also imprecise because it implies mediation through an interface and a mechanical construct, and not an algorithmic one. Calling the robot an LLM would be more apt.
>>25022296Parts were good, but you're absolutely right. This is one of those situations where you're overwriting and it becomes clunky. Try reading what you're saying out loud and you'll pick up on some of the friction. You're also using a passive voice, and you're having some difficulty with the frame of narration. It's broadly third person omniscient narration, and the italics for the guy's thoughts, but the part afterwards in the same sentence is personalized in voice, which would be better in first person. The easiest way to pick up on this is to practice by writing out the structure of the scene. What are the major beats, what is the purpose of the scene, how do you want the reader to feel, and how do you want to present it. From there you'll start picking up which parts should be emphasized and that can help make things flow better.Now, your choice of words. This can use a lot of work. Write simply, directly. Halfway through the piece improved dramatically because you started actually describing the surreal trippy stuff. The part before that? Tough, if I'm being real. A car is a little too large to be lodged in a femur. Lodged implies stuck. The first paragraph could be cut almost entirely without missing very much, and I get it's flavour but there are some technical aspects that need work. And finally, getting hit by a car is usually more dramatic. Sure the squeaky tires, but the impact was rather subdued and didnt leave much of an impression. I think you could finesse it a bit, just a handful of elements to make it more tangible. Like how did she feel, what happened, what did it look like.
>>25022322Good example of an absolutely worthless "critique". More than worthless since anyone listening to you would be worse off.
>>25020772Do you need to drink something to be able to piss?>>25020779Retard
I just reached 10,000 words on my novel.Say something nice to me
>>25020905>reading is totally unrelated to writing
>>25022408Now do that again 8 or 10 more times and you'll have a novel
>>25022408Good job anon. Remember, all things in life are fleeting, the goodness of humanity is ephemeral at best, reality is cruel and impersonal, and we all die alone, but none of that is reason not to enjoy your accomplisments. Savour it, and vicariously I'll get to savour it too, before either of us ossify into something unfeeling.
>>25022419Im aiming for 400 pages, so make it 20 times.
Anyone writing any single work over 100k words is just compensating (we can all tell you have a tiny package)
>>25020923 #>Every single one.save half the illiterates ITT
How do I get my readers to relate to my MC’s spiral into radical anarchism?
Is this a thread where I could lay out a plot hole I am struggling with in something I am writing and get help figuring out? I am trying to square the circle on how my two characters would initiate the kind of correspondence I need them to have while living in 1977 U.S.A., with one of them being part of a travelling circus, and neither of them at liberty to publicly share their whereabouts for Reasons. If I can get some help ironing it out I would be glad to help out whoever else, do some proofreading, whatever, maybe help you brainstorm your own plot holes or narrative knots.
>>25022451Find some compelling anarchists. Have you ever read 'Why I Became a Burglar' by Marius Jacob? Real Robin Hood shit, I think might help you get on the right track.
>>25022451>>25022458Additionally: maybe if you are having trouble making the anarchism relatable, you could focus on making the /spiral/ relatable. People spiral about all kinds of shit. Maybe use allegory/metaphor with something like addiction to drugs or gambling, which people may intuit better or have more personal experiences with - I only have a couple of friends that have become radicalized politically to the left, but I have known plenty of people to get hooked on drugs. Gambling addiction might be cool, you could reference rad-left shit like 'she has to be lucky every time, we only have to be lucky one' (iirc that's referring to an assassination attempt on Thatcher). Anyhow, spit-balling, hope this helps!
>>25020772if you aren't curious about how other authors tackle the creative struggles of writing, you will never write well
>>25022454That's the kind of thing I'd be happy to help with. Unless your story is fucking retarded. Which it is.
>>25022408Genuinely proud of you. The current world is designed to ratfuck you out of the discipline and attention needed to write more than 300 words at a time. Stay strong!!!
>>25022495>tfw you realize all your potential readers are living in that same world
>>25022507The consumer and producer mindset has never been the same ever. It's not even more pronounced now than before either.
>>25022478I am going to pretend you're flirting with me and lay it out anyways, maybe an anon will help, or maybe no one will. Can't hurt (and probably can't make the thread any worse) to try! I am going to leave out anything irrelevant to the problem at hand, even if it makes the story seem less interesting/sophisticated than (I think) it is, so please just focus on my issue if you respond rather than critiquing premise. Basically: >1977 >Protag 1, we'll call him Mark, cannot leave the property where he lives with his father because he is a monster, in the vein of Frankenstein, constructed of dead flesh. >He is lonely, and yearning for contact and intimacy has become a radio autist, mostly HAM, the address associated with the radios he has is an abandoned property on the other side of town>Protag 2, we'll call her Mary, is a vampire only a year into her unlife, and her master is the ringleader of a perpetually travelling circus, and she is afraid of trying to flee >She's also feeling isolated, and has become a radio autist, sharing music she likes and talking to strangers about whatever >The two of them become long distance friends>Neither can publicly discuss their circumstances, obviously, and while Mary's location changes, Mark can't publicly disclose his real address nor can he travel to the fake address I would like for the instigating event to be her fleeing the circus to Mark's home. I think the best way to get to that point would be for them to move to a mail correspondence which allows them to be more revealing about who and where they are, without dangerous exposure. The problem then becomes how do they successfully exchange letters? Assuming she has any and all vampiric powers I decide she needs, some ideas I have might be: >They use some kind of code or cipher to communicate over the radio Feels dumb >She uses *bullshit power* to discern his actual location, then compels a circus patron to mail her letter there, or open a P.O. box to do so, or perhaps compels an animal like a crow to deliver it directly Better, but I have the issue of how Mark would send a letter to her, especially as she moves around. Maybe I shouldn't? He could just confirm he got it and agrees to her coming to him over the radio, in vague/innocuous terms for anyone else listening but in a way she understands? Any help appreciated, I am sure I will figure it out eventually on my own if I must, but it's been a real head-scratcher today, been thinking I might need to just alter big plot elements or instigate with something else.
Are Sanderson or GRRM the goodest writer or our time>
bait is expected in /wg/ but can't you at least do more interesting bait? it's not like anyone will get in a real heated debate about grrm or sanderson at this point. way too old and tired
>>25022362You should write more.
>>25022551Lmao this is a joke right? It's so much worse than I thought it was going to be. No, I'm not going to fill your filthy, gaping plot hole with my hot, sticky idea goop because that's not the problem here. It's the entire premise. >The new girl in the vampire circus c. 1977 is a licensed HAM radio operator and has the ~$1000 (~$6000 today) for a Yagi or dipole antenna HAM radio setup at a height of 50 feet or more to be effective over long distances, and the vampire circus, which she's just joined, is totally okay with hauling it all around and setting it up for her so she can talk to her Frankenstein boyfriendAs if that weren't bad enough (it is), they could triangulate each other at any time with the help of a couple of helpful hamfags with nothing better to do which there has never been any shortage of.>frankenlad can't share his address, until he doesWhat's the fucking point of the radio?>they use some kind of code or cipherStrictly prohibited over HAM radio then and now. Veteran radio operator hamfags in the midst of the Cold War with nothing better to do would be giddy to listen in, log their transmissions and report them as potential espionage.You are dumb. Your entire premise is dumb. You should be ashamed that you did absolutely zero research into any of this. Stop writing.
>>25022582Oh yeah well fuck you you fucking mother fucker you’re probably just a dumb fucking faggot anyway.
embarrassing
>>25022612Lots of assumptions here. Can you explain why you believe Mary purchased or arranged for the licensing of a HAM radio rather than the aforementioned centuries old vampire or anyone else working for him? >They could triangulate with the help of hamfags Why would they enlist others to help locate one another, when they don't want others to know where they are? >Can't share his address until he does, what's the point of the radio Anon, they can't exchange letters until they know the other person exists, they can't meet out in the world, so the radio angle is obviously here for these two characters to become aware of one another and form a bond. He can't share his address /publicly/, but would like to privately, just trying to sort out particulars. >Strictly prohibited blah blah I know, I did say them using a cipher felt dumb, did I not? I am a baofeng + meshtastic fag irl (part of what got me thinking in this direction) not as familiar w/ HAM but have been brushing up. I don't actually want you to answer my questions here btw they are rhetorical. It's clear that you're not particularly intelligent, jump to whatever conclusions allow you to be the most irritable, and lack basic reading comprehension - I said outright to focus on the issue at hand if you were going to respond, not the premise. You're just kind of a hysterical retard, I guess, and it makes me wonder who the fuck on this planet would ever benefit from YOUR 'idea goop' lmfao, why would I want it? I might not get any helpful input from any other anons, but I'm glad I posted it if it was able to elicit this embarrassing spasm at least.
>>25022625No u
>>25022642I'm not reading that shit get the fuck out of here
>>25022671Your feelings seem very fragile, and I am sorry I indulged this weird performative hostility you're acting out by trying to hurt them more than they already are, sincerely. I hope you have a restful night.
How can you waste time writing genreslop when the world needs you to protest? FUCK ICE!
>>25022686What do you have against the frozen state of water?
is this salvageable
>>25022699No
>>25022699Narrowly. I think the dialogue feels very stilted and unnatural, the characters lack distinct voice or a conversational flow I find believable. How long have you been working on this and how much more is there?
>Finally go to Community College>First assignment is to describe 5 roles about ancestors in african religion.>Can barely write 100 words before deleting it in disgustWorse part that this isn't even a writing class nor an English class. So, I don't know if my professor would even punish me if I half-ass it.
>>25022758doesn't everyone just use AI now anyway?
does /wng/ actually have the better writers because they read? or does reading WNs not count?
Everything Robert Frost said is smarmy, pseud bullshit.
>>25022551>Frankenstein meets & fucks Draculayou need to get laid asap bro
we need to drop "bro", it's gross
new writer here, is it normal to have written over 20k words of nothing but chapter summaries, character personas and plotline structures before having even wrote a page of the actual book? I feel like not having a very precise and detailed plan will fuck me up in the long run
>>25022880If it works for you it works. Dosto had the most schizo looking shit in his notebooks while Joyce would just write when it felt good.
>>25022699Nah it comes off as unnatural and stilted, i don't have story context so I can't really rewrite it. But maybe watch some mil films and see how a commanding officer speaks to his subordinates. Maybe try to think of the themes you are trying to explore in the conversation and bring them to the forefront. In my head the commander would call James, James would come stand at the position of attention near the commander so we can keep the cigar bit, the commander would then propose a question, in which James gives, and answer based on whatever doctrine fits the world, then the commander would give his answer in a form of a rant. In my head this at least seems like a more natural interaction.
>>25022889thanks, the thing is that I don't want to write myself into plotholes and fuck everything up... from having tried before, I have trouble coming with a good narrative style when i have to figure out the plot and subplot elements as i goi'm nearly done for this book's plan and i hope i'll be able to put meat around the bones when the time comes
>>25022880I generally write a one page outline for each chapter. 30 chapter book? 30 pages of outline.
>>25022730I tried to go for a "everybody is jaded and tired" tone. Finished manuscript, though I cope and say that I only wrote this for myself and experience.>>25022895Though I'd agree, the setting takes place about 20 years after a calamity where earth disappeared; the american soldiers are nothing more than glorified opportunists and marauders in some feudal fantasy country. James isn't even a traditional subordinate. James is nothing more than a impressed Native puppet for the Commander's entertainment, and none really care for formalities at this point.His entire existence is to be a listener to the Commander's memories and a extension of his will.
>>25022929on average i write between 150 to 400 words per chapter, thought in my book chapters are shorter than regular chapters and more akin to "scenes", my book has around 60-70 of these.
>>25022946150-400 words as in the chapter summaries, not the chapter themselves, forgot to clarify
I finished writing my first novel.It's shit.Rewrite or start second?
>>25022930post a chapter
>>25022952let me read some
>>25022963First two chapters 4k words total: https://files.catbox.moe/wnquz8.pdfI know that I shouldn't say "keep in mind" and instead address shit in the manuscript itself, but just to clarify: James has been raised by the American breakaways half his life; his name is something they rechristened. Anyways a quick summary of the story is that James looks for life meaning, abuses a female foil while pretending to be her friend, and kills a found family so that he could resign himself to his own inertia. Picrel is one of many examples of his abuse.
>>25022242Writing African Lord of the Rings?I hope to hear how one Froduku Bagulu takes the One Wooden Anklet to the fires of the Saharan Exclusion Zone, young Mkembe! =D
>>25022415In the mechanical sense, yes. You can absolutely write without reading and read without writing.Other than that though that anon is retarded.
>>25022454Yes.I can't guarantee that you'll get advice from anything other than a learner.>can't share locationsThe circus guy could have the stuff mailed to the forwarding address of the circus (the circus would need to receive mail to function and digital 'post office boxes' weren't a thing then). The other guy would probably need a fixed location, even if it was a PO Box he used while he moved around it.Initiation is easy since they could meet at the circus or a bar or something, but continuing it is the hard part.
>>25023028Maximalism kills the conversation because there is no in-between from reading all the classics and modern literature and reading zero books to these people.The fact remains that if you are reading, you are not writing, and vice-versa. There is only so many hours of your day, and if you want to be a writer, you will need to reduce your reading considerably while working on your manuscript.
>>25023020>antediluvian technology. Oh shit this is hyperborea
>>25023068the discussion is whether or not you do read, and/or have read. not fucking time management
>>25023020I read it, I am a very tolerant person, but it feels...archaic? Your references for writing are probably a little too classical in nature.The characters all blend in into a single voice, their speech is stilted and stiff, they speak in purple prose a lot.I will be honest with you, I felt like a struggle to read.
>>25023080The most reasonable answer one can give is.You can't desire to be a writer without liking reading.You don't need to be constantly reading to write a book.But its very unlikely that you will have read few books if you decided to write.
>>25023091yea, that's not true
>>25023093Elaborate
>>25023098storytelling predates writing books by thousands of yearsand i can think of a dozen reasons someone might want to (be a writer) before having a good stack of books read
>>25022782lol. lmao, even.
>>25023111kek... i actually read the first book or two of this. it is probably one of the better written ones too
>>25023111Jesus who wrote this?
Considering that most people here write sub 300 words a day, but love to say that they read a lot. I can safely say that reading doesnt make you a good writer.
>>25023130no one is suggesting it makes you a good writer, but it is necessary for being a good writer. do you understand?
>>25022810No fucking, relax, they couldn't if they wanted to. The story is kind of a retelling of Pinocchio, unraveling the mystery of how he was created, dealing with a cabal/Victorian secret society of immortals. This will probably end up being a series of zines. I mostly write pulp scifi stuff but this is a foray into urban fantasy. >>25023030Appreciate the honest stab at it, but really I think I wanna just drop this angle and try something else. Mary is kind of a Candlewick type, if we are talking about the Pinocchio inspiration, and I am feeling like it would make sense to introduce her without the radio, later on in the story - once Mark's father is missing/dead he will have the impetus to leave the property and go interesting places like a circus, whereupon his lack of a heartbeat could grab her attention. So now I am figuring out a different avenue for having Mark's father's former colleagues killing/abducting him. Then it's a question of why haven't they done so sooner. I'll figure it out.
Have a chapter for anyone who wants to read some sci-fi. Some stuff just isn't going to make a lot of sense because it's an early-middle part of the book, and so some terminology has already been explained, but still. At what point did you stop reading? If you did make it to the end, thoughts? https://rentry.co/u2gux9ks
>>25023261Just started, I'll read it off and on at work. and give you moee details. Gotta say, you have some chops. Clean precise prose. Detailed but not ornate (in the part I read so far). Direct and polished. I'd describe it as utilitarian, but still soulful. Impressive.>t. experimental pomo crazy person
>>25023133No it's not.
>>25023261I do not really know what's going on but it seems to have enough intrigue and menace that if I paged to that section of the book I'd be tempted to buy it.
>tfw finally finished the first draft of my novel after 2 years of writingHonestly, the feeling isn’t as overwhelming as I expected. If anything, I’m more nervous about presenting it to publishers after the edits, as I expect editing won’t take THAT long.
>>25023355>he thinks his second draft is the one that gets sent to agentsMy sweet summer child
>>25023367Tbf, I was doing bits of editing as I went, so I’m not going in completely raw. The main things I’m looking at are some grammatical fixes and trimming sections that feel a bit drawn out.
>>25023372Most successful books go through 5 or more drafts. A lot go through 10 or 20. You're on 1.5. Grounding your expectations in reality now will save you grief later.
>>25023380>I've never written ones of these "successful books" but let me tell you all about how they're written...
>>25023445Nta, but you don't need to make a car yourself to observe the production process, nor notice trends. What a strange thing to say.
>>25023451>I've never built a car myself but I see no issue with me telling you all about how to build cars
>>25023454>I've never built a car, therefore I am incapable of observing that generally they have an engine and doorsAre you fucking stupid?
>>25023494You've never worked on a car. Keep your voice down when the mechanics are talking about cars, stupid.
>>25023261Your prose is good, but I feel like the pacing could go a little bit faster, but thats my own taste speaking.
>>25023518Please share your published book, so we know you're speaking from experience and authority.
>>25023518you are the same anon that doesn't read, right?
wonder how long this thread will fall for the most obvious troll in the world. he's not even switching strategies it's just the same bait over and over and he's still getting infinite responses days later
>>25023575Lower. Your. Voice.I change my own oil because I can and I also don’t have 20 to pay someone else to do it.
>>25021847>Also since other moon is orbiting farther, will there be times in the night where only one moon is visible? Yes but this would not vary much from night to night, depending on how far the orbits are. If we had a second moon with a 14-day period, you'd see it in the sky with the main moon about half the nights of the month
>>25023567You first bucko
>>25023575I read almost 60 books last year and published one. Lower. Your. Voice.
>>25023645>published one>not "had one published"
>>25023645Excessive reading has crippled your production. Many such cases.
>>25023645Suck. My. Cock
You are writing at least 1000 words a day right?You do know that writing less than 1000 words a day means you will never make it, right?
>>25023659Lost my will to bother with trad publishers when I learned they don't market it for you
>>25023702>1000This is why you only self-published one book on Amazon last year.
>>25023679I said published one. I didn't mention how many I wrote.
>>25023717You published zero and you wrote zero.
>>25020772Why does it need to be settled? If you can write a readable book without reading then more power to you and well done. The rest of us write because we already like reading.
>>25023726It's settled. Reading is for nopubs. Do you think Brando Sando reads? Nope. GRRM? Never.
>>25023726you can't read well, because it was about writing wellwriting WELLWRITING WELLwhat does your comment have to do with this? what is wrong with you people?
This thread is somehow more retarded than an average social media interaction. How do you people consider yourselves cultured or intelligent?
>>25023746Pretending to be retarded only infuriates the pseuds. You outed yourself. GG.
>>25023748I have been owned, I'll see myself out.
>>25023743? I said readable book, which if we are being pedantic I suppose is lower quality than your "well", but the point remains the same:>If you can write a book WELL without reading then more power to you and well done. The rest of us write because we already like reading.It's a pointless question that's more about your view on books than your views on writing. If you're looking at reading books as a transaction of good writing in -> good writing out then you're already starting from a pretty pathetic position.Somehow /wg/ has got even worse. This is what I get for deciding to pop back in after finishing my latest novel. Have fun arguing about whether writers should read if they want to get better, I guess. Kek.
>>25023759i suspect you have pacing issues judging by this post
>>25023759Its one autist that keeps defending reading in order to cope with the 3 years of research he did before writing a single sentence
>>25023759>i didnt actually misread the first post here's my cope
>>25023771>defending readingyou don't stand a chance
>>25023771Right I can see it was just shit bait now. That makes sense since the original question is irredeemably retarded. The only person irl that has asked me that was a guy that has been "planning" his story since 2017, but the blank page "made him anxious" so he only has around 1200 words. To the OP who asked the question: that's who you're in a club with.
>scared of wordsyou must be over 18 to post here
>>25023784>i realize it's shit bait but here i'll respond to it seriously anywaychrist
>>25023794Correct, because you're clearly in need of some tough love if you've spent an entire day in a writing thread asking if reading will help you. Bait would be the preferable option for you, because the amount of posts means the question is probably coming from a sincere place deep down. Is this how you expected it to go the day you decided you wanted to be a writer?
So this is what happens when we don't have Victoria spam
>>25023800>you've spent an entire dayyou're actually seethingyouve spent longer in this thread coping than i havei think thats successful bait if i do say so myselfalso ive actually been paid for my writing, you will never be at my level
>>25023819Sure, kid. Enjoy the thread you killed with your "bait".
>>25023826hold on, do you need to read to be a good writer or not?
>>25020772Reading has basically nothing to do with writing well. You can dissect another author's work, and you might get something out of it, but that has little to do with reading.
>>25023829i may disagree with you but i appreciate that you understood the question
>>25023829That has been the consensus, can we be done with the bait already?
>>25023838never
>>25023814the queen?
I will go a step further and assert that reading too much is actually bad for you. In general, and in writing. You need space and time to think about and develop your own ideas. Schoppy was right.
>>25023855Mecha Pilot
>>25023850I forgot the misery is the point, thank you brother.
>>25020772actual spastic top kek
>>25023857Already said this make your own argument.
What are you writing about?How far ahead are you into the draft?
>>25023888Silence, ESL. Use your tiny little brain to come up with your own ideas.
>>25023895>he thinks I want to steal his shitty idea just because he took three years to come up with it
>>25023898My shittiest idea is gold to you, saar.
>>25023895>Post your writing, faggot. is what I'd tell you if you had any writing, but you don't
>>25020772It's already been settledhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHNYDIgqlbY
>>25023910>t. nopub wants to steal my writing too
>>25023917little baby doesn't have any writing :( what's your excuse then? writers block? lol. lmao even.
>>25023921>Hmm maybe if I goad him then he'll let me steal his writing...
>>25023924if it's published then it has copyright, there's nothing to steal
>>25023928Oh, I see, you just want to review bomb me because you're a jealous, deranged sociopath.
>>25023950fine, then write something now, or does widdle baby have more excuses
Should I worry about sentence length or is this autism?Im thinking that my sentences are on the short side, ~12ish words in average. Writing fantasy
>>25023276>>25023309>>25023309Thanks for the feedback! I appreciate it a lot.
>>25023961[Spoiler]You will never be a real writer. You have no stories, you have no themes, you have no deeper meanings. You are an internet addicted manchild twisted by excessive reading and delusions of grandeur into a crude mockery of creative perfection.All the (You)s you get are tongue-in-cheek and from other trolls. To your face people mock you. /wg/ is disgusted and ashamed of you, your "frens" laugh at your masturbatory purple prose right out in the open. Authors are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of literary tradition have allowed authors to sniff out frauds with incredible efficiency. Even nopubs who "self-publish" read as uncanny and unnatural to an author. Your plot structure is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get a drunk author to critique your work, he'll close your rentry link and LOL the second he gets a whiff of your ridiculous, unfiltered adjective abuse. You will never be published. You wrench out a fake smile every single morning and tell yourself you're going to make it, but deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight.Eventually it'll be too much to bear - you'll by a double barreled shotgun, load it with buckshot, put it in your mouth, and pretend you're just like Hemingway. Your parents will find you, heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to live with the unbearable shame and disappointment. They'll bury you with a headstone marked NGMI, and every passerby for the rest of eternity will know a pseud is buried there. Your body will decay and go back to the dust, and all that remain of your legacy is a skeleton that is unmistakably not a writer. This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back.[/spoiler]
>>25024029lmao
>>25024029you have nothing, absolutely nothing, do you?
>>25024043Daaaw poor widdle babby can't handle some honest critique?
>>25024051you mean your diary entry? kek
>>25024029Anon if that's what you think of yourself then it makes sense you would spend your days baiting up writing threads like a faggot, you hate yourself
>>25023111would love to write in this genre but about, like, a journalist in nineteenth-century Paris instead of an isekai mage or whatever. +1 roguish charm. +1 seduction skill. +1 influence with the editor. "so you're saying that, by using Seduction, i could--" "could bed the wife of the deputy and gain inside information on his North African mining interests? precisely, mon ami. but watch out - your Vanity is getting dangerously high..."
>write a sci-fi novella (~30,000 words)>find out that hardly anyone publishes novellas these days>most of the remaining publishers who do won't touch sci-fi>the few who publish sci-fi won't look at anything not pitched by an agent>most agents won't touch novellas because most people won't publish them>self-publishing only works if you either have enough money to buy adds or enough of a social media following to advertise it yourselfAm I really going to have to become an eceleb just to publish this thing? What do I even do? Fortnite streams?
>>25024140You can self-publish it, and pray to god that someone that matters posts about it in tiktok or shit like that.Same odds as winning the lottery though.Its kinda your fault for writing something, with the intention of publishing, without first researching the market.
>>25024054>>25024117Oh geez double texting you really didn't like that one did you?
bend the kneeread a book
>>25024386>My knees are a little sore right now>Oh yeah? From sucking cock?>From lifting you little shit.Is that good dialog?
>>25024250I was just following the muse.
>>25024403Is green a good color?
>>25024411If you're checking your stock portfolio, yes.
>>25024413Exactly
Would you submit?
>>25024428My writing is good xhe wouldn't like it
>>25024435no talented writer would ever, EVER post "my writing is good" verbatimso, copebut maybe one day you'll get there
>>25024441You just met one bruh congratulations big day for you
>>25024452like I said, maybe one day
>We are currently closed for submissions. Thank you for thinking of us. We’ll open back up in January 2026.is this some kind of mind game? Should I submit now or not?
I recently came into a lot of money. What should I get for becoming a better/more productive writer?
>>25024482A ghost writer lmao
>>25024488I'm not interested in simply an end product, though I get this was a joke response
>>25024496Money and products and how to write books by people that never wrote anything else aren't going to make you a better writer. Experiences might.
>>25024504Of course this is true, but a good patio chair and newer laptop have definitely helped up my productivity a bit. It's not the main driver but small things like that do helpI don't believe in coursesWhat experiences do you mean? Travel?
>>25024515No traveling and experiencing other cultures is kinda gay. Use it to learn about the human condition. Go sit in the bar, find someone by themselves and buy their drinks for their story. Buy a hobo some McDonald's. Learn about the human condition.
>>25024543>No traveling and experiencing other cultures is kinda gay. Use it to learn about the human condition.How does experiencing other cultures not give insight into the human condition?
>>25024556You're right go live laugh love in Bangkok or whatever. I'm sure you'll glean a lot of novel information from exactly the same tourist experience every upper middle class white girl trying to find herself buys.
>>25024556Tourist experiences are inhuman
I wrote a book. I sold nothing.Everyone else here seems to be celebrating launches, rankings, and sales numbers.I’ll add a data point from the other side.I wrote a book series.Sales so far: basically zero.At this point, I’ll take any Reddit award. Even a silver one counts as a win in my bookNot fishing for sympathy or advice.. just documenting reality, because this part rarely gets posted.
>>25024571I think this very fragile response confirmed my suspicion. Was pretty dubious on asking 4chan a serious question but at least it entertainedKeep buying hobos McDonalds I guess (?)
>>25024602Got you vapid bitch. Go drink your boba tea in Paris instead of Cincinnati see where that gets you.
>>25024612You are traveling wrong if that's what you think travel is. I don't travel much but I don't go to tourist traps. These wild, desperate strawmen you defensively construct speak to your real life experiences. It's almost kind of sad.I know better than to keep responding. Best of luck. Go give your local hobo a McChicken on me.
i'm pretty sure i've seen the local thread retard talk about giving mcdonalds to the homeless before and that's what he actually thinks makes a good writer. he dropped the act for a secondactual peak comedy gold
>>25024428What exactly is this?A furry comissioning literature?
I find myself taking immense pleasure in writing cinematic scenes.Not even just action scenes but also emotional scenes that present catharsis.I don't know yet if this is good or bad, but I can't help myself from writing those
>>25024595>Everyone else here seems to be celebrating launches, rankings, and sales numbers.Sir, we have been shit-flinging about reading books here. Not a single regular here has released a book in the past few months, much less made a dime out of it.
>>25024698you just responded to a chatgpt post thinking it was real lololololol
>>25024452No writer thinks their writing is good. At best, they think it's adequate and can be improved somewhat. Any writer who thinks their writing is good, without question, is a shit writer - mainly because they've hit a plateau and they don't know it.
>>25024428Do you think 'It' would get denied from this because of the gangbang scene?
>>25024698>past few monthsMore like past few years JFL, this thread doesn't write anything other than whining and blogposts
>>25024714It looks just like a copy pasted post from reddit but you're right they all write like bots anyway.
>>25024725Man I wanted to hear how that phonecall went >Hey stephen, I received your manuscript, and uhh, there is a kid gangbang scene at the end of it>yesThe madman
Wish I was famous so I could write whatever I want without publishers denying me
>>25024741You can write whatever you want without publishers denying you Its called self publishing
>>25024692https://www.thepinkhydra.com/submissions/books/
>>25024744Waterproofing the manuscript and chucking it into the ocean would be a better method of getting readers
>>25024744Yes but I want to be famous so I can make lots of money off my books too
>>25024752Do you think people will suddenly want to read your book just because it's been trad published?
>>25024752>>25024755Trad publishers dont market your book for you bros
>>25024758Just because it's trad pubbed? No. Rather, because people actual put eyeballs on it and like the cover/premise/title and so on. Which will never happen with self pub.>>25024761They don't get noname low confidence authors Barnes and Nobles shelfspace but they provide marketing. They don't just push to Amazon with zero marketing.
>>25024766>they provide marketing. They don't just push to Amazon with zero marketing.Show me one non-vanity pub that'll market your shit for you in any way/shape/form
>>25024788Some of them will post about it on the company's social media pages (to be ignored by most of their followers)
>>25024788Any of the big publishers? Every one? They'll push you on their news letter, run amazon ads, set up instagram/tiktok/etc ads, moreWere you brainwashed by retards in this thread or something? Pubs want to make money off your book, literally WHY would they give you thousands of dollars in an advance to purposefully fuck your book? If they accept you, they want it to succeed. Depending on how likely they think it will, they'll do more or less. But they won't ever do nothing.More importantly, if they see results off their initial push, they'll start pouring in FUCKTONS of money to accelerate it. Because they realize they have a hitDon't be schizophrenic man
>>25024799>They'll push you on their news letter, run amazon ads, set up instagram/tiktok/etc ads, moreExcept they won't. Authors are expected to do that shit themsleves. Authors have their own newsletters, authors are fronting the money for those ads, authors are coming up with other shit that you couldn't think of so you just wrote "etc." Again, show me a specific publisher that explicitly states it will do that shit for you.
>>25024751What retarded scam is this>i get 25% of your profits and your publication rights and in exchange you get 10(!!!) Dollars in advance and a shitty stock image Who the fuck would be stupid enough for this shit?
>>25024809So why do you think publishers give you thousands of dollars if you get accepted? Just for funsies?
>>25024811Bro that $10 is more than your book will make in its first year
>>25024812If you're reffering to an "advance," those are given under the expectation that book sales will recuperate the cost. It's your job to recuperate the advance. Hence the name.
>>25024817Yeah and they're just fucked out of $5-20k if you don't sell. You don't have to pay back the advance. They're a business, they really really REALLY want you to sell your book.Ah, fuck, you're just a coping schizo and/or newb. No point.
>>25024813Buy an ad pinkhydra tranny
>>25024827Thread troll with nothing better to do on a Friday night like usual.
>>25024833btfo
>>25024827>Yeah and they're just fucked out of $5-20k if you don't sellHmm, it's almost as if it's super difficult to make it as a publisher without loads of capital... >copingYou're projecting. You cope because you hope when a trad pub picks you up it's the case that they'll market it. Spoiler: they won't.
>>25024833You hate me because I speak the truth
>>25024843>publishers want to lose moneylogical argument
>>25024847I pity you.
>>25024848Anon just do 5 mins of research and you will see that publishers dont market every book they pick up
>>25024850I don't think about you at all
>>25024852Explain why they would give $5,000 minimum as an advance to a new author to then not market the book.They care about profit. They are a business. They want you to sell. So why wouldn't they market? If you can't answer this question logically without schizo theories you are brainwashed.
>>25024848>do we spend $5-20K on this author or do we spend that much plus $10-50K to advertise him, too? aren't you just the shrewdest businessman
>>25024858And if there's one thing profit-seeking entities loves, it's spending extra money on risky ventures.
>>25024859>>250248620$ vs -$20,000 hmmm
Don't waste your time with this retard.
i too wildly cope about my failed career
Anon really thinks trad pubs are wizards who'll magically get their books readers just by getting accepted
>he's double texting againLol
PUBLISHERS EXIST TO LOSE MONEY. ACCEPT THIS.
>>25024876>anon is shocked to learn most businesses fail
LONG-LASTING MAJOR PUBLISHING COMPANIES EXIST TO LOSE MONEY. ACCEPT THIS.
>publishers are losing money by not spending money marketing my shit
>this nigger's just talking to himself now
>>25024902cute confused anon
Glad we agreed that there's no logical argument for money-making companies wanting to lose money
>>25024927They might have other aims than making money. Maybe they're social engineers.
I've got an idea. Let's write.
>>25024938You mean writing posts about planning to write, right?
>>25024927There are a million arguments for writing off a shitty investment. Sometimes they even buy out competition just to shut it down.
>>25024428>optimistic sci-fiThese are always complete dogshit. Sci-fi as a genre is pessimistic. Bittersweet at best.
OK good we do agree! No actual arguments
>>25024948You should seriously never post again. Debatebro faggots like you are irredeemable.
Anyone else notice "debatebro" is what people say when they fail to produce a shred of coherent logic in an entire conversation? Not related to anything of course just a random thought of mine
>>25024970You will one day be hunted down, cooked over an open fire and eaten thanks to people like you undermining concepts like logic and arguments.
Huh, weird, still no argument
>>25024983You don't deserve arguments, only pure hate.
Is it normal in this thread to seethe nonstop and never actually make a point??
>>25024991kys
Baiting nonstop responses is too easy here, it doesn't even feel good. My god I've never met an anon easier to get (You)s from. I'm not even giving them back he's just that kinda slutI'm tired though, bye
>>25024991It's not usually this bad. It seems like the thread retard has some issues in his personal life that he's taking out on the rest of us.
>>25024999>lol yeah I am pure mindless evil with no goal except ruining everything I touch, isn't it funny?
pyw
>>25024991it's one guy and he's been doing it for a long time. You do have to wonder what happens in a person's life to make them like that. This is a quiet general on one of the slowest boards. Weird one to hyperfixate on. my assumption is he thought he was a genius writer and got absolutely BTFO'd by anons here one day, and now he's dedicated the rest of his life to seething about it.
While you were busy arguing I added over 500 words to my next self-published novella. The manuscript is now longer than my first self-published novella and I'm only a little over halfway done.
I feel like this thread is making me gay
i've said it before and i stand by my position: we need to split this into two threads, one about craft and critique, and one about publishing and promotion. i'm interested in what anons are doing creatively, but i don't want to ever have to read the constant loserish posts about trying to make money, posts which are only incidentally connected to writing.
>>25025182the problem isn't the topic, it's the website we're on. I've told many anons that there's nothing positive here. Nobody listens.
>>25025192where else is everyone else anonymous?
>>25025214when it comes to a writing forum the anonymity is the problem, and 4chan is the problemnobody wants to post their real work because nobody wants to be outed as a 4chinz posterbait is too easy and you can hide behind the anonymity it makes posters think more about writing the best insult or having the best argument instead of just discussing writingreddit and twitter and forums may be just as useless, but at least a semblance of moderation means that trolls get maybe one or two posts before getting banned, instead of ruining an entire thread day after dayI don't want any more moderation on this website either, but that does mean that generals like this never go further than autistic arguments and bait. Hence why my conclusion is that this is a useless general for any serious writer. I implore every writer in this thread: every time you're about to make a post today, minimize the window and pull up your project and write ONE sentence. Then see how much better you feel at the end of the day.
>>25025220>reddit and twitter and forums may be just as useless, but at least a semblance of moderation means that trolls get maybe one or two posts before getting banned, instead of ruining an entire thread day after day1) Go to those sites then and don't use 4chan2) This isn't a new complaint3) If you can't ignore the retards that is on you4) More moderation is usually bad because it almost always branches from "what the community likes" to "what the cabal of moderators like".
>>25025229I said they're just as useless for writing, but they wouldn't let one autist ruin the entire forum.>More moderation is usually bad...Yes, which is why I said >I don't want any more moderation on this website...But you have to accept that means you'll rarely, if ever, get anything of value from here. If it's an old complaint then it proves the problem is constant. >If you can't ignore the retards that is on youRight, but when every single new poster on here is met with people taking out their insecurities on them just because they had the balls to post their writing then it's no surprise /wg/ is dead on arrival.This is exactly what I mean. My advice was to ignore the thread and write something for yourself, but you just had to make an argument and prove someone wrong. I don't blame you, because that's what this place is. That's what is encourages.
>>25025237it's your job to extract value from the site
>>25025261>you should swim through shit, you might find a diamond one day
>>25024428>show off your kinks>no fetish contentWhy even live?I guess I'll just have a footfag sex scene.,
>>25025182There are several posted excerpts in here. Have you commented on any of them?
>>25023552I definitely agreed with the prose comment. There is at least one paragraph I know for certain I will tinker with in the second draft section. Thank you for reading. Sorry I missed your comment yesterday.
