How do Marxists realistically respond to this?
>>25035353they laugh at how fucking stupid this quote is, probably
>>25035361Say something retard.
>>25035353I've only seen this heuristic applied by leftoids against Western states
In cybernetics terms Marx would just say that capitalism is the penultimate phase of a system that is not yet in a state of static equilibrium. What the system is designed to do is bring about communism, not for moral reasons but for "scientific" reasons. Private property / capital concentration among a tiny elite that has no rational reason for ruling is not immoral for Marx, it's (a) inevitable because it is rational (accumulation is a rational human impulse and is easier to do the more you already have), and (b) also produces irrational outcomes that provoke the more rational move of communal ownership imposition on the part of the immiserated workers, who produce everything. The penultimate phase of the system thus generates endless crises which confront the increasingly immiserated masses over and over again, with greater and greater severity, with the question "why don't we just seize the factories we actually work in and know how to run from the people who don't know how they work and only own by virtue of some atavistic technical legal privilege dating from the 1700s?" Burnham would qualify Marx by saying that capitalism was only the antepenultimate stage and managerialism comes next, and the managers are far more effective at gridlocking the system at the managerial phase. (This is why Samuel Francis liked Burnham - he wanted to figure out how to smash the managerial state as it tends toward a Kojevian globalist technocracy.) Many 20th Marxists would also qualify Marx by saying that his rationalism was excessively optimistic and itself an atavistic remainder from the 1700s (the Enlightenment), and that human beings are actually highly irrational and that at least one dynamic equilibrium of the system could very well be technocratic capitalism gridlocking the system in their favor for who knows how long (although some of these Marxist still thought that Marx was right over the very long term, like Robert Brenner - it's just that the stakes of the crises get higher as technology develops, e.g., nukes are a lot worse than 19th century colonial and imperial wars).
>>25035353That quote just generally cuts through so much bs it's amazing. Applied to one's life it can work wonders.
>>25035353Two more weeks
>>25035372>"The purpose of the systems of the West... is to be wealthy, fuctioning, democracies that champion human rights?"What's funny is that the systems of Western states is fucked right now, but they still manage to outperform and produce better outcomes than any other countries on earth with a small handful of exceptions.
>>25035384It's only temporary. Europe will go first. It's plain to see.
>>25035374What factories? You're gonna seize the means of production of your HR dept economy that produces nothing?People did seize the actual factories many times. The best outcomes were examples like Spain where they turned the factories into basically criminal syndicates that still operate and still murder dissenters.These ideas are retarded nonsense that predict nothing and accomplish nothing except distract retards like you.
>>25035384Eurangutans are throwing grannies in jail for protesting Israeli war crimes
>>25035391You need to keep your emotions separate. It's like someone asked "why does Locke defend private property?" and I explained why he did and you went on a rant about how Locke was retarded for not predicting the gas crisis of the 1970s.
>>25035372>efficiency is when you don't have drinkable water
>>25035426Efficiency is when you don't assign infinite value to humans.just because.
>>25035423It's like if multiple large civilizations collapsed into misery and death because of some vague appeals to the supposed ideas of some homeless guy centuries ago and then all of academia including you spent almost all their time jerking off together about autistic language games around "reinterpreting" what this homeless retard said.
>>25035353The only real purpose of capitalism is to produce capital, but nonetheless it produces a whole lot of other things like starvation, wars, drug addicts and jews.
>>25035436You are an idiot and your idea of "capitalism" doesn't exist. The purpose of factories is to produce stuff, like food and that's what they do. The purpose of financial systems with lending is to maximize the ability to build factories and that's what they do. If you prioritize hedonism over anything else and establish military dominance you'll coerce other nations to produce everything for you, get addicted to drugs and rootless cosmopolitans will exploit your weakness.
>>25035457John Factory after thinking of how to produce stuff, like food and that's what he's going to do
>>25035384>with a small handful of exceptionsLol
>>25035353They probably just use it against capitalism because that would be really easyIf anything this quote is a little more kind to communism
>>25035353wow, liberals on suicide watch
>>25035384>wealthy, fuctioning, democracies that champion human rights?HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! tell me how the yugoslav war crimes tribunal and pinochet worked out again lol. there's a difference between "human rights" (which i will admit if implemented completely would be benign" and using "human rights" to justify neocolonialism
>>25035353I think this quote has its heart in the right place but it's kind of sophist semantic waffling not getting straight to the point.The point is that a system does what it does. There IS in fact a point in claiming that something does what it doesn't do. It's called a lie and it's quite useful.I think what he's trying to say is that good natured people should stop living in a theoretical world and focus on what actually happens (if they truly wish to be good natured that is). But it's phrased in a pretentious way that tries to make a statement about systems when it's really just about subjective perception. A system doesn't have a "purpose" it just has an action that it does. Only a human has "purpose" which it assigns subjectively to whatever it feels like. In a way this quote feels like a materialist trying to cope with subjective reality so he's doing it in kind of a clumsy polemic way.
>>25035584the point is flying so far above your head I would say you're some sort of subterranean rodent. systems are not cognizant. they do not "purpose" like conscious actors do. they have purpose more akin to how an ant colony has purpose.
Loading screen tip from a wizard in a 2000s fantasy game
>>25035647>people should stop living in a theoretical world and focus on what actually happens Simple and very useful advice that is nevertheless very hard to follow even if you want to.
>>25035384I guess one of those exceptions is the United States, where male life expectancy is in decline. An unprecedented phenomenon in an industrialized nation
>>25035432Thats right. Just me.
>>25035664>systems aren't cognizant because... because they just aren't, okay?
>>25035598bent over and pounded lmao kek
>>25035874Two more weeks, Ivan
>>25035733I don't understand why no one fixes this. I want to be able to fuck 17 year olds when I'm 300.
>>25035436>The only real purpose of capitalism is to produce capitalI love it when commoids try to do economics.
>>25035598China is a capitalist country.>>25035874>homosexual fantasiesCongratulations and welcome to the Communist Party.
>>25035733The USA is a deindustrialised nation.The Chinks and Pajeets do all that stuff now.
>>25035644Neocolonialism has raised the station of every third worlder on the planet. I don't think there is any denying this.
>>25035353does this apply to people? Is my point to be an unproductive nihilistic hedonist because I repeatedly relapse into that behavior?
>>25035353Marxism is a defeated ideology, they only people who seriously subscribe to it are children and invalids.
>>25035935Every academic will screech and moan but you're probably right.
>>25035935WRONG. it has fed poors who would have died off anyway. it has impoverished the middle and ruling classes of those countries
>>25035960Good.
>>25035584>John Factory magically manifests a factory with his own labor and never exchanges his excess production or makes up for shortfalls! please stop posting you're embarrassing yourself
>>25035964how the fuck is turning a functioning country into a leaderless satellite of the west "good", especially since the reason everyone was impoverished was due to western mismanagement anyway
>>25035970I enjoy seeing poor subhumans suffer. I'm spiteful and petty like that. You cannot shame me for I have no shame.
>>25035970>especially since the reason everyone was impoverished was due to western mismanagement anywayLol. I do agree though that deposing all their slaver kings in the original colonial age was a mistake. We can frame that as "mismanagement" but don't pretend you're not taking a pro-slavery position.
>>25035978most honest defense of liberalism desu>>25035981overthrowing a slaver kingdom and replacing it with a colony where all the capital is owned by the west is at best a sidegrade
I am uneducated retard who works driving a forklift, I only read asoiaf and tom clancy novels, I have no idea about philosophy, ideology or economy and I always wondered about one thingsince I first learned in school about different religions, ideologies, capitalism, communism, socialism, fascism, leftism, rightism and everything else it all seemed to me like afterthought, or showbussiness. I never actually believed any of the people involved in those movements, except maybe for their creators and few fanatics actually believed in anything, they just wanted to chase glory, they were lonely frustrated and hopeless and just wanted to achieve greatness or die doing it. I always explained to myself that this is how most wars and human conflicts started, ww1 wasn't about monarchism, old alliances or whatever, just young men chasing glory, same with ww2 and every war before or afterno one believed in communism or capitalism and no one does today, deep down it's all showbusiness and every leftitst could become a fascist because those things don't mean anythingI wanted to ask if I'm actually onto something here or I'm just a retard, is there a name for my set of beliefs?
>>25035985You literally just can't stand being poor can you? If you could buy whatever shiny thing that you want but can't have all of your noble passionate marxist rhetoric would evaporate like mist under the morning sun. Every last one of you is utterly predictable and shallow kek.
>>25035985The castrated boys might disagree. All the colonies were flooded with more investments than ever leading to trains and population booms. It was purely beneficial for the African masses, the only thing to really argue about is if giving low IQ savages better lives that cause their populations to boom is a good thing. It seems a clear undisputable good thing except it didn't jumpstart any real development, just chaos and dependence on foreigners.
>>25035990Not retarded.
>>25035947And resentful humanities graduates with no career prospects.
>>25035996not a marxist, i hate poors>>25036008>It was purely beneficial for the African massesexactly what i said, poors get fed and the ruling class gets destroyed and the country gets turned into a satellite
>>25035353What? Are you making a case for capitalism's continual catastrophic collapses are a good feature? This is a bait thread? >>25035379IT COLLAPSES CONSISTENTLY (no Marxist)
>>25035990Unironically based and correct.Every single political ideology is a spook.
>>25035919Gotta industrialize to deindustrialize
>>25036024This. Even Mao admitted communism could never exist.As for capitalism, the only consistent definition is "whatever commies don't like."
>>25036017Worldwide prole revolt is far from inevitable
>>25036059I didn't say it was. People who want to turn the revolutionary movement into a religion are retards with their heads stuck in the past. The fucking vampires use that indoctrination shit.
>>25036017>capitalism's continual catastrophic collapsesSuch as?If you're referring to the 2008 banking crisis, that's because central banks kept interest rates too low under pressure from governments. Daily reminder that the first mortgage lenders to go under were Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
>>25035916They practice National Socialism with Chinese Characteristics.
>>25036058Everything about your post is retarded and incorrect.
Neither "true" communism nor "true" capitalism exist. It's shitflinging over theoretical frameworks that do not and cannot exist in their pure state in the real world.
>>25036098>triggered
>>25036075Collapses happened before the Federal Reserve. J.P. Morgan settled one in the 1890s.Not to defend the Fed. Point is that it happens all the goddamn time in cycles. There was a smaller one in 2020 when they decided to announce that we had COVID. When in fact it had arrived in the previous fall. They waited for the stocks to crash. Did you notice the wellfare-for-the-rich payout that week?
>>25036161oh no we built too many factories! it's a hecking collapse bros! *eats big mac*
>>25036142True capitalism slips through stages. There's no holding it stillTrue "communism" in what sense? The historical has happened, Dithmarschen for one. The Marxian sense (state centralized capitalism under authoritarianism) also has happened and it was just as fragile as all the other capitalisms.
>>25036142Get off my /lit/, you reasonable bastard.
>>25036142The only genuinely literate /lit/ poster
>>25036142Communism is inevitable.
>The Marxian sense (state centralized capitalism under authoritarianism)lmao
>>25036206Only if you're retarded
>>25036212But which one do either of you mean? >>25036208That's what it was. They did it stupidly. China learned to do it differently. Still very much a controlled economy, but it's working out for them.
>>25036248Dengism isn't Real Communism™. You can tell by the fact that it actually works.
>>25035990My assumption is that in every “activist group” for every one guy who has actually read the literature, there’s 5 people who just want to feel morally superior, and 10 who just want to run around looting and shooting
>>25036297I''ll use any excuse to rob rich men and rape their wives and daughters tbqhwyf
>>25036256I've likened it to fascism. The Moose would nod his chin at them, I think.
>>25036206Only its collapse was inevitable LMAO.
>>25035353cops exist to promote adultery and murder and kidnapping by protecting the criminals
>>25035990>no one believed in communism or capitalismcommunism is nonsense but capitalism is just not communism so its ill defined and normal in history. but Christianity is a real belief system that was new with john and paul, you will hear nothing but sincerity from justin martyr and thomas aquinas, wycliffe and tyndale
>>25036256xi jinping gets the adolf hitler prize in national socialism for securing china the minerals and factories to ensure the future is built on terms acceptable to them
Remember when they used to say that this was the most intelligent board on the site
>>25036363>He thinks Marxism was communism in action.The plan was for the world to follow their lead and then the magical end of scarcity would collapse the state and bring about communism.They're utopians just like free market liberals.All civilizational projects, state apparatus and economics, lead to collapse. All.
>>25036401reading is just a boring side quest to getting bitches and stacking paper NERD
>>25036401That was over a decade ago. And it was at its best with trips and named posters.
>>25036410Based and true
>>25036405>All civilizational projects, state apparatus and economics, lead to collapsexi jinping the chemical engineer seems to have secured chinas future. maybe technocracy could work if it was lead by an actual techne
>>25036412It's genuinely bizzare of how quickly the average post quality of this board has degraded but I guess that's just the fate of this entire site in it's current state.>That was over a decade ago and it was at its best with trips and named posters.I've always wondered where older effort posters head off to after they get sick of here. At this point I honestly wouldn't mind a return to dedicated messageboards. I could imagine A /lit/ themed one doing fairly well.
>>25035598the chinese population is collapsing before they became rich, classic case of the middle income trap. so close, but no cigar. better luck next time.
>>25036443fiction is typically tl;dr and history is bunk so the only thing to talk about is God and why the Bible is right
>>25035353Marxism created nazism. Marx wrote the book that convinced all counter theorists that jews are the problem
>>25036479>the only thing to talk about is God and why the Bible is rightNice try Yaldabaoth
>>25036479>the Bible >right
>>25036491No.
>>25036491for me, its freud
>>25036491
>>25036447Robotics will resolve that. They are pioneering robotics for that reason.
>>25036523cope. will the robots be buying all the empty housing in second tier cities?
>>250353531) Karl Marx was a genius. one of the smartest people of his era2) He wasn't right about everything3) He did not hold power, and its not really fair to judge him by conmen who claimed they did things in his name. In the Russia example; Lenin & Trotsky make good claims to Marxism, Stalin does not. Stalin killed Trotsky
>>25036530No they’re going to be the industrial-labor backbone of a fully cybernetic command economy while the genetically augmented Hans colonize the solar system. Meanwhile America will be a pedophile totalitarian kleptocracy.
The real split is actually between restricted (productivist, both capitalism and communism) and general economies (sacrifical, gift-based)>t. Bataille & Baudrillard
>>25036554>2) He wasn't right about everythingI know. I try to remind everyone at every opportunity. The old man's hubris was as bad as Lenin and Trotsky's and it set the movement hack hundreds of years.
>>25036554marx can be judged by the historical philosophy of either historical materialism or the history of societies is a history of class struggle
>>25036530>The west has a homeless problem. IE many empty houses and many people living on the streets>China has an empty house problem. IE no one is homelessLOL
>>25036568I wish
>>25036574>ancient shitposter memeNot reading
>>25036581marx transparently shifted between dogmatic materialism and dogmatic idealism while maintaining a dissertational scientific frame like a 19th century andrew tate
>>25036521>chimp phoneposter >posts AI summaries
>>25036574>ridicule enemies>they still have me trapped in a gay mcdonalds rat cageThanks jesus
>>25035598The funny thing about this is lefties will see this and be still be anti-tariff, without even the slightest semblance of understanding that to balance the equation in a trade deficit/foreign dev the 1% and only the 1% must be enriched via fin. mkt.s and this is the chief mechanism behind income inequality. Similarly humorous that rights think trump is some sort of capitalist hero, when it couldn't be further from the truth.Just goes to show you numberlet /lit/sissies will forever be bamboozled by basic reality.
>>25036597You are weak in faith and spirit. You've no one to blame but yourself.
>>25036635>weak in faith>Just attend church every sunday till you die. simple.
>>25036631Holy shit you are utterly retarded
>>25036631>without even the slightest semblance of understandingI believe that at least 90% of people have extremely poor understanding of macro geopolitical economics.
>>25036640you don't understand anything about anything, but please I beg you forgive me anon, I have interrupted your cathartic daily outpouring of anger towards the red/blue team and am being a poor sport. continue, please.
>>25036514>>25036515>>25036521Marx wrote "On The Jewish Question," which framed jews up as rootless transnational bourgeoisie by nature. This is explicitly what gave rise to nazi thought.
>>25036648Good idea. In fact you should never post again.
>>25036647most people don't spend their entire life on the internet arguing about issues they know absolutely nothing about and wouldn't be equipped to understand even if they did. normies spend maybe 5 minutes a day and 10-15 on election day.that 4chinners and redditors have about as much understanding of the issues/positions they fight over as a giraffe has of Olympic curling, and yet spend 3-4 hours a day arguing about them when they should just get in shape so they can have a gf/friends/make money, is very humorous.
>>25036670Such as, yourself?
>>25036631 A trade deficit is just a capital account surplus. It should be obvious that super basic thinking along the lines of "deficit bad" means that "surplus good" should also follow, and a trade deficit is both. So clearly this does not actually make a whole lot of sense. A trade deficit is not inherently good or bad. I have a "trade deficit" with my local supermarket, I have literally never "exported" any goods to them. That's not exactly a problem. I'm not going to make my own coffee or toilet paper or whatever.
>>25036652yeah no one reads that. people discuss in hushed tones how marx (piss be upon him) wrote that money is the god of judentum punning commerce with judaism by which marx being an orthodox jew meant to decry his nations impiety like jeremiah ezekiel malachi amos haggai. which contradicts his vaunted scientific realist materialism, but it slips past because surely no one would argue its not ok to actually believe in God
>>25036686> the rest of the world is a supermarket from which i source pizza rolls and mountain dew to stuff my fat face
>>25036652Jews being rootless gave rise to nazis? No. Listen.The rising interest in socialism after the first world war frightened the international bankers. (They are not al Jewish) THIS is what facilitated funding to the authoritarians. Fascism is liberalism in crisis. >Hitler in Pink.jpg
>>25036712The US has a trade deficit with other countries but does much, much more trade domestically. So to continue the example, you have a trade deficit with your grocery store, but a trade surplus with your employer. The surplus between you and your employer is so much larger that the deficit with the grocery store is not that big of a deal in relation to your broader personal economy.
>>25036718To further continue the example in order to run a surplus with your employer, you must run a deficit with the grocery store. In other words, the grocery store supplies you with the raw material that you then turn into something more valuable that you can sell to others. Trump thinks everything is a Zero Sum game. That’s the mark of a con man, not an entrepreneur. Entrepreneurs understand that in reality, wealth can be created. You take a few pieces of scrap wood and turn it into a chair, and it’s much more valuable now. So it basically doesn’t matter that you’re running a trade deficit, if you’re doing useful and needful things with the stuff you import. Let’s see how much of a surplus you can generate with your employer when the grocery store is pissed at you
>>25036714The founding texts of socialism, framed Jews as rootless transnational bourgeoisie. Pogroms occurred under stalin, as well as Hitler. The logic only goes one direction. National socialism, is socialism.
>>25036724>Trump thinks everything is a Zero Sum game.Everything is a zero sum game.
>>25036635I meditate on and practice my spirituality all the time. Somehow the ruling order has not fallen as a result.
>>25036670>so they can have a gf/friends/make money, is very humorous.what a pathetic life.
>>25036732Pogrom happened during imperialist reigns Naziism isn't socialism anymore than SocDem. They're BOTH liberalism with hints of socialism, but just enough to sooth the BROKE ASS ECONOMICS SYSTEM THEY INSIST ONNational socialism is liberalism in crisis.
>>25036755Stalin was preparing a jewish pogrom, only reason it didn't occur fully is the party was heavily staffed by Jews who intervened. Communism will always fail without an omniscient, incorruptible being leading the state, and because of scarcity. If you override corruptible human leaders, and scarcity, it can work. And, Marx is the thing that gave anti semitism renewed coherence after the waning of christianity
>>25036759Kikes being kikes keeps anti antisemitism eternally healthy. christkekery is not a requirement
>>25036759>Marx is the thing that gave anti semitism renewed coherence after the waning of christianitywhy, does the analysis of material causes of historical events lead to the conclusion that the jews are our misfortune?
>>25036724you, as a consoomer, see only money you print and give to china man for general gao chicken and pork fried rice while you watch euphoria on netflix and fuck yourself in the ass with dragon dildo. youre not interested in the fact that everything that isnt made in china is made with 50% chinese engineers because you have goyslop
>>25036686Except the supermarket comes back to you with the money and "reinvest it" with you in the form of bonds you printed in your back yard, and so you as the money man get gigga rich while no one in your family that actually works has a job. Trump is a populist and probably the closest thing to an actual progressive "ie - for the hoi polloi" that still exists in the world.American "progressives" want trannys teaching sex ed to refugees so long as they can continue to serve their corporate masters by beefing up that cap account surplus and thus corporate profits and 1%ers who are earn 50% of their income from financial instruments.That the "left" in America - that every faggot i see in a Sanders tshirt is in Starbucks bitching about tariffs from the cheetoh man- is free trade is the most hilarious bullshit you literally could not have put in a dystopian scifi novel 50 yrs ago and been taken srsly.Its the most absurd HONK HONK HONK bing bing wahoo bigtopocracy clown-pilled bullshit you can imagine.
>>25036759So? Are you trying to hurt my feelings with this subject change? You don't know who you're talking to
>>25036777lamest cartoon award
>>25036812No i was just laying out my argument. No offense intended.
>>25036631>without even the slightest semblance of understanding that to balance the equation in a trade deficit/foreign dev the 1% and only the 1% must be enriched via fin. mkt.s and this is the chief mechanism behind income inequality.Can you substantiate this more/better?
>>25036842He doesn't know what he's talking about.
>>25036842https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQAXGBYNGBUStart at 15:00 go to 17:56 since I know zoomer brains who will watch can't handle more than 3 mins.
>>25036819Oh okay. I find it irrelevant though.
>>25035664>Systems are not cognizant>Said the multicellular organismKEK
>>25035990you fucking idiot, if nobody actually believes in anything how do you explain ideologies spreading in the first place? how do you suppose a man picks an ideology instead of another? You are simply so slothful that you can't imagine someone else not being as slothful as you are.
>>25037322Most of the time it's a form of social pressure. Some guy latches on to some idea, sometimes because of real conviction but more often because of some ego nonsense like wanting to look smart. If he has some social status the people around him emulate him until it reaches a critical mass where you need to at least pay lip service to the idea to be accepted socially at all.WW2 is a decent example. The "appeasers" were absolutely correct and the war was purely ego based. Britain didn't defend any of their interests and there was no real ideological conflict. Everyone marched to war just to lose the empire so they can jerk off about how they're part of the cool kids who made the emotionally charged speeches which excluded you from the in-group if you disagreed.
>>25037351>Some guy latches on to some idea, sometimes because of real conviction but more often because of some ego nonsense like wanting to look smart.Nonsense. If was based purely on social pressure radical ideologies would never reach the critical mass necessary to snowball into broader acceptance by society. Your theory also lacks any kind of selection mechanism, it doesn't explain why some ideologies succeed in spreading and some don't. It also doesn't explain why ideologies that at one point where more or less equally successful were so radically different in their content, if it worked like you say you would expect any given set of ideologies of a society to be on the same gradient. Methinks this is just an elaborate cope for intellectual laziness and moral cowardice - "I don't have to believe in anything because no one actually does".
>>25037369>purelyNot what I said. >radical ideologies would never reach the critical massThat's the only way they ever could.>it doesn't explain why some ideologies succeed in spreading and some don'tYou are retarded my friend.>gradientExposure predicts what an individual believes more than anything else like the atheist meme points out, you only believe x because of where you're born. With global instant communication the best predictor only changes from geographical proximity to social proximity, as in what media you consume and what online communities you get caught up in.Most people, by far are mindless retards. People who actually think, even a little bit are extremely rare. Therefore thinking is not the dominant factor in the spread of ideologies
>>25037380Who said anything about thinking? You don't have to reason profoundly about something to deeply believe in it, the conversation is about whether or not the belief is sincere not about how much intellectual work goes into the average mass man's beliefs. >With global instant communication the best predictor only changes from geographical proximity to social proximity, as in what media you consume and what online communities you get caught up in.And *why* do you suppose one gets caught into some online communities instead of others? You are inverting cause and effect.>That's the only way they ever could.Stating things without arguing just makes you look like you don't know how to defend your position. Doubly so when you display a middle schooler's reading comprehension and think calling me a dum dum is in any way a rebuttal to my counterarguments.
>>25037397>the conversation is about whether or not the belief is sincereIf your conviction isn't the product of sincere thinking then it's not sincere. The most deranged extremists really "believe" in their nonsense but that belief is rarely rooted in something like sincere reasoning about how the idea will make the world better or whatever. It's social pressure, signalling in-group preference, monkey shit.>Stating things without arguingI presented more reasoning than you did. I already described the mechanism and you replied with what amounts to "no" with no reasoning behind it. Absolutely braindead.>And *why* do you suppose one gets caught into some online communities instead of others? You are inverting cause and effect.So people born into communist countries are born there because they're communists?
>>25035353They threaten to brain you with a hammer.
>>25036206Two more weeks
>>25037411>If your conviction isn't the product of sincere thinking then it's not sincereProfoundly ignorant of human nature. People deeply believe in things they have not reasoned about at all, that doesn't mean they aren't sincere about it. Religion being the chief example. You can certainly arrive at religion by the way of reasoning, but most religious people (who actually believe in the religion) do not do so, and even the most intellectual religious man possesses a strong pre-rational component to his beliefs.>The most deranged extremists really "believe" in their nonsense but that belief is rarely rooted in something like sincere reasoning about how the idea will make the world better or whateverYou are confusing sincerity with positivity. I *can* sincerely want to nuke the planet and think humanity deserves nothing but extinction. I can sincerely believe I'm better than anyone else and everyone should be my slave. Et cetera. Yours is sloppy thinking.>I presented more reasoning than you did. I already described the mechanism and you replied with what amounts to "no" with no reasoning behind it. Absolutely braindead.Your reasoning amounted to nothing more than a poorly constructed theory that I shown to be ineffectual in actually explaining anything by way of counterfactuals, which you haven't rebutted to (instead deciding to call me names like a child).>So people born into communist countries are born there because they're communists?How do countries become communist, anon? Actually here's a much better example: how did Christianity spread in the Roman empire considering that Christians were persecuted and therefore becoming a Christian was a net negative with no positive sides in a purely status games sense?
>>25037453You're trying to argue instead of engaging and your style of arguing mostly involves deliberately misrepresenting anything said to you. I'm not interested.>how did Christianity spread in the Roman empireThis is an interesting subject but framing it as if there's no game or social positive at all is again dishonest.At the start it spread fastest in the outskirts of the empire, in the British isles and France while ethnic Romans were going through a demographic collapse. The focus on the poor and valuing military power less appealed to the masses, noble women and academics who all would benefit from higher status the more Christianity spread.
I don't get the appeal of the quote, politics at least since maybe a few thousand years has grown more and more idealistic, groups of powerful people have an ideal form of state in mind and compete horizontally and vertically to make it happen and much like creating the perfect circle they may only hope to approximate it if not quite often butcher it and make a square
>>25037524>You're trying to argue instead of engagingI am engaging by disagreeing vehemently. Oh well.
>>25036401Point me to the board with higher quality poastings, unironically.
>>25036755>Nazism is liberalismOnly on /lit/.
>>25038312Unironically /diy/.
>>25036759>Marx is the thing that gave anti semitism renewed coherence after the waning of christianityDid you learn this from the amerishart education system or were you educated in one of those weird NATO cargo cult former warsaw pact countries? This seems too retarded even for Ameriplaps.
>>25038313No, in crisis. Or hadn't you noticed? If you can't recall historical examples, you need to read more history.
The right are entirely dedicated to performing evil.The left are retarded.I hate my choices.
>>25038587The evil being done is a massive propaganda and mind control operation.Your choices are clear enough, but the masses don't want to hear common sense. Like lemmings over a cliff they go.
>>25036652It was written at the request of a Rabbi against a work by Bruno Bauer who wrote a paper against the Jews on racial terms. Marx was self consciously writing a defence of Jews by framing their wickedness (which was not in dispute by anyone) as something cultural and religious which would inevitably and naturally disappear and therefore didn't need to be fought against.
>>25038610The evil is actually stuff like directly blocking much needed medical research and intentionally poor planning.
>>25038621Oh but that's just a single part of the massive I'm pointing towards.
>>25035353Also good personal advice
>>25035372>>25035426>>25035432>>25035736Deport yourselves plsthx
>>25035387We've risen from every field of ashen ruins we've created. Each time greater than before. Like the tree that can only grow new saplings if the whole forest burns.
>>25035970>the reason everyone was impoverished was due to western mismanagement anywayThis is delicious bait.
>>25039803oh yeah my bad. western exploitation, not mismanagement
>>25038587it's the other way around actually.
>>25038587>>25040998It's the other way around in the sense that nationalists and spiritualists are forces for good while socialists and Marxists are intellectually predisposed to philosophical discourse. Instead we live in a world full of greedy nihilistic retards, thus capito-liberalism reigns.
>>25035384Singapore
>>25041052>former british trading port that had early access to british finance system performs as well as the westwoah
>>25035990Read Girard
>>25035353They would use it to attack the current system while brushing their own failures under the rug.You think you're being clever by citing the failure of the USSR or China or whatever, but those are glorious successes, relatively speaking. China is doing great - even if there are bad bits, it's a functioning system. You can visit China today and buy a soda and look at the system doing what it does. The USSR fell apart, sure, but it had a good run. They lost, but they played the game. There was something there for a while.You think it's damning that if they ever succeeded in a revolution, they'd build the USSR and then it would implode, and their purpose is to inflict all that trouble and misery for nothing, gambling that this time it will work. No, it's somehow worse than that.The most damning thing about this quote for Marxists is that its an indictment of of them in the here and now: They consider themselves revolutionaries, but they do nothing to advance revolution. They argue online, maybe at best they set up a LARPing political party that puts out "demands" on behalf of all 5 of its members. And that's their purpose - that's what they do. Not revolution. Not even lay the groundwork for the groundwork for revolution. Nothing. They are pointless.Well, almost pointless. They've got a good social status game going and my life's been a lot more relaxed since I realized that. The purpose of LARPing online is so people think you're cool. I wish I knew that before I took all this mumbo jumbo so seriously that it ruined my ability to play the game.p.s. This guy literally went to Chile under Allende to help them build a computerized planning system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn
>>25035353They call you a nazi fascist and then go to the store and steal they don't need.
>>25035353Anti-communist and anti-marxist critique is the peak of midwittism. It's like they can't come up with a good point ever because they are genuinely retarded. Nuance goes above their head and logic is something they are averse to. But then again, this is the same crowd that believes a cabal of jews is running the world. Expectations were rock bottom to begin with
>>25036718>>25036724another thing to remember regarding this trade deficit, which you're currently leaving out, is that for the US it's all denominated in American currency. If China wants $500, it has to give America $500 worth of stuff. America doesn't have to make $500 worth of stuff to get $500, it can just run the printing press. It does just run the printing press.Imagine if your "trade deficit" with the grocery store consisted entirely of the grocery store accepting IOUs you made at home in exchange for actual goods. That's America's situation at the moment.being able to sustain a massive trade deficit because the entire world wants your IOUs is America's gigantic privilege as the world superpower, but suddenly it's decided that actually its vassal states are ripping it off. pretty funny.
>>25041536>They don't accept my insane linguistic games to explain away communism's 100% failure rate, why are they so averse to nuance.
>>25041536A cabal of Jews and their Christian allies have been maneuvering to control the world for some time. They’re Zionists and they came from the Sabbatian-Frankist cult>>25041759He does have a bit of a point in the opposition being midwits at best
>>25036652The word for jew becomes a swear word in every culture. Native American tribes have banished jews in 21st century. Opposition to the baby torturing neanderthals is not because of any line of thinking. It's as natural as breathing or liking to have a beautiful view. The jew opposes life because the jew worships ugliness - a result of circumcision or perhaps just being the lesser human race compared to Cro Magnon.
>>25035353the purpose of mc donalds ice cream machines is to not work and create a nuisance it is not to create ice
>>25041980>the jew worships uglinessWhy are khazar milkers so beautiful then
>>25035353The purpose of a system is to serve me. To the extent it fails to do this that system is broken and must be fixed.(This is a dumb semantic game where we define "purpose" in whatever way we want for the sake of our argument.)
>>25035353>What the system is designed to do is bring about communism, not for moral reasons but for "scientific" reasons.This is circular reasoning with no basis in anything>nd (b) also produces irrational outcomes that provoke the more rational move of communal ownership imposition on the part of the immiserated workers, who produce everything.The people who actually work in mines, on farms and similar are paid fairly well, unless they are third worlders, but no-one has good lives in these non-white countries. >This is why Samuel Francis liked Burnham - he wanted to figure out how to smash the managerial state as it tends toward a Kojevian globalist technocracyManagerialism is a lie, and has never be shown to actually be a real phenomenon. You're in a cult
>>25036631They're not anti-tariff, they're just anti-white. Everything else is just a strategy, fluff, a lie, etc.
>>25041510>hey argue online, maybe at best they set up a LARPing political party that puts out "demands" on behalf of all 5 of its members.That's not most of what they do though, most if it is working for NGOs to cultivate anti-white hatred, facilitate mass immigration, censor the internet, assault randos and the occasional school shooting.
>>25042113lolif you'd ever met a communist you'd know how farcical it is to imagine them doing any of that.
>>25041536Any conversation that takes communism seriously is midwittery all around.Its like discussing phlogiston or the four humors in earnest.
>>25039764Gonna deport your mom first!
>>25039806Just have more powerful armies
>>25041536Intellectuals are actually the enemy.
>>25035434nta but you are fighting a strawman in your head instead of engaging with what that other anon wrote. maybe >>>/pol/ would suit you more?
>>25042019>The purpose of a system is to serve me. To the extent it fails to do this that system is broken and must be fixed.trvke nvke
>>25036724how can you have surplus with an employer? in order for the employer to make a profit won't he have to give less value than your labor produces?
