I loved them, read almost all of them in like a month. What are other noir private dick or detective novels from the 30s through 50s in the same vein that are also good?
Dashiell Hammett, obviously. Red Harvest and the Glass Key were Kurosawa 's basis for Yojimbo which was the basis for A Fistful of Dollars. The Man with No Name is ultimately albeit indirectly based on the Detective with No Name, or the Continental Op, who also is very handy with a gun
>>25046780Yeah I read Maltese Falcon long ago but I should probably read it again, because I was really young at the time and I wasn't that into it
>>25046800If you had started with Red Harvest then it would have been a different story
I read all of Chandler and Hammett last year, I love them. I can recommend you the Martin Beck series, amazing ten books. Very different, but you might like them. Otherwise, the Harry Bosch series. Of course, I don't think they come close to Chandler's style but again, I think you should check them. Otherwise, of course, Ross Macdonald is the obvious choice.
>He was about to pocket a list of local sanitariums when he heard "Traitor," and saw Mickey and Herman Gerstein standing a few feet away. Cohen with a clean shot, but a half dozen witnesses spoiling his chance. Buzz said, "I suppose this means my guard gig's kaput. Huh, Mick?" The man looked hurt as much as he looked mad. "Goyishe shitheel traitor. Cocksucker. Communist. How much money did I give you? How much money did I set up for you that you should do me like you did?" Buzz said, "Too much, Mick." "That is no smart answer, you fuck. You should beg. You should beg that I don't do you slow."
>>25047035>The Latin inscription on the Pall Mall cigarette pack—“In Hoc Signo Vinces”—translated as “With this sign we shall conquer”—was a tentative means of homo identification>I noticed a stuffed spaniel poised by the fireplace with a yellowed newspaper rolled into its mouth. Madeleine said, "That's Balto. The paper is the LA Times for August 1, 1926. That's the day Daddy learned he' d made his first million. Balto was our pet then. Daddy's accountant called up and said, "Emmett, you're a millionaire!" Daddy was cleaning his pistols, and Balto came in with the paper. Daddy wanted to consecrate the moment, so he shot him. If you look closely, You can see the bullet hole in his chest.>We burned down rooms. We knew what everything meant. We understood terror and fury as no one else had. It hurt to be together and hurt more to be apart. Our mouths clashed. Our teeth scraped. Our arms ached from the meld. We knew each other's smells and heard each other's voices and told each other things that no one else ever had.>Scripture-pure veracity and scandal-rag content. That conjunction gives it its sizzle. You carry the seed of belief within you already. You recall the time this narrative captures and sense conspiracy. I am here to tell you that it is all true and not at all what you think. You will read with some reluctance and capitulate in the end. The following pages will force you to succumb. I am going to tell you everything.>I saw crime everywhere. Crime was not isolated incidents destined for ultimate solution and adjudication. Crime was the continual circumstance. It was all day, every day. The ramifications extended to the 12th of Never. This is a policeman's view of crime. I did not know it then.
>>25047035I read Blood on the Moon and it was shit. Is the LA quartet that much better?
Lew archer series by Ross Macdonald. Same basic premise (west coast based private eye). Macdonald put out far more of these books than Chandler put out Marlowe books. I think there are 20 or so. I’m halfway through but I’ve taken a long break from the series because it starts to get a bit repetitive.>archer gets hired by rich family with dark secret >troubled son or daughter of said rich family is missing>Archer has to find them and untangle the familial web and psychoanalyze the family in the process.Still great books and I’ll definitely continue at some point.Another I would suggest is the Maigret series. It’s not American and there’s a lot less action but it fits the noir tone a lot of times and the portrait of pre and post war France is great. These are really short and they’ve recently gone through another round of reprinting so they are new and cheap and available for 10 bucks at the big book chains. I’d give one a try.
Try the Quarry seriesOr Parker
>>25046768What a synchronicity, i was just thinking about this. I did read all of Marlowe, except for the last one. Very good, but i liked Hammett way more personally. Everything's great all around anyway.>detective novels from the 30s through 50s in the same vein that are also good?Check both James Ellroy's LA Quartet & Underworld USA series, and Derek Raymond's The Factory Series; along with Hammett himself, they're peak noir and peak detective fiction.
>>25047388I’ve seen the factory series recommended from time to time. Could you elaborate more on why you like it? I’ve read that it’s pretty graphic. I don’t mind that in small doses but I prefer it not to overshadow the work itself. What I mean is that Marlowe could be pretty bleak but you never got a extensive 2 page description of a tortured to death dame’s body.
>>25046768James M. Cain is incredible.
>>25047414Heavily psychological and atmospheric, it's more like Hammett than Chandler i think, more crude and sharp, but way more introspective. It also develop its own world as goes on. Of course, it's police fiction, so there's police procedural involved, although i do enjoy it. What makes it so special it's that it doesn't feel like a cheap genre cashout like the vast ocean in this genre, but feels like a proper series of novels with hardboiled passion put in it, unlike the rest of the stuff post Chandler/Hammett besides Ellroy best work.
>>25046780I keep looking and honestly Ross Macdonald is the closest I've been able to find.To be honest the closest I've found to Chandler is Le Carre. obviously different genre but imho similar vibeNot what you asked, but while we are on the subject, Eliot Gould narrated a bunch of Chandler audio books and I thought they were great. Great for long car rides.
>>25046780Just read Red Harvest on an airplane. It was like we took off and landed in 30sec I was so absorbed.
>>25048170>Red HarvestOne of my favorites books. Looking forward to reading The Glass Key sometime.
>>25047531Eliot Gould did the best job playing Marlowe from the books imo, so that's not surprising. Marlowe would set up and play famous chess games with himself and probably thought constantly about things he doesn't even mention in his narration, and this unceasing, idiosyncratic thinking about random connections is why he has sudden flashes of inspiration and figures things out. Very much the opposite of Sherlock Holmes who thought in a highly focused, analytical way, so much that he was completely ignorant of heliocentrism because he said it was irrelevant to what he was focused on. Marlowe is a man who is always in his while being maximally observant to what's outside of it, regardless of the apparent relevance. Chandler wrote that, looking through police filles he came to the conclusion that crimes are rarely well-planned and executed, rarely rational, but are often committed based on reasoning even the perpetrator is fuzzy about and has to rationalize, which makes solving crime require a certain eccentricity that allows one to grasp absurdist, dream logic and reason from that. Hence Marlowe. And that is reflected in Marlowe's unique way of describing things through creative and perverse similies that fit perfectly, unifying his own buzzing thoughts with his close eye. Finding literature similar to Marlowe would require narrative from a similar character.
Obligatory listeninghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKmq9BivBL4
>>25046768“Switch” and “Rum Punch” by Elmore Leonard
>>25048198It's just as good. It's also interesting because the "detective" in it is actually a gangster in a town where no one is innocent. It, along with Red Harvest, was the inspiration for Miller's Crossing,https://youtu.be/gOBX9STqprA just like the Marlowe stories were the inspiration for The Big Lebowski and the James M Cain stories were the inspiration for The Man Who Wasn't There
>>25048235By the way, in old age Hammett said he never wrote a good book. But when asked, not even The Glass Key? he said that actually is not so bad
>>25048207Yeah a quote I have highlighted from The Big Sleep really sums up the character's approach>I'm not Sherlock Holmes or Philo Vance. I don't expect to go over ground the police have covered and pick up a broken pen point and build a case from it. If you think there is anybody in the detective business making a living doing that sort of thing, you don't know much about cops. It's not things like that they overlook, if they overlook anything. For some reason I was under the impression that there were dozens of Marlowe books and was surprised when I started Farewell My Lovely there was only one more after that. Anyone read Poodle Springs, is it any good?
>>25048341> Farewell My LovelyI meant The Long Goodbye
>>25048341We think of Marlowe as the equivalent to airport fiction and it would make sense that it would be churned out at a similar rate, but Chandler did put a lot more effort into it than airport fiction. No airport fiction has prose as delicious as Marlowe stories. So it was impossible for him to crank out dozens
Alright boys listen up! Where shall I start with raymond chandler's works? The big sleep?
>>25048375Yes. Then watch the movie. Both are classics in their own right and in their own medium.
>>25048375Definitely The Big Sleep"I don't mind your showing me your legs. They're very swell legs and it's a pleasure to make their acquaintance. I don't mind if you don't like my manners. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter nights."
>>25048375Go in order, it pays off. Chandler is one of those writers that gets better as he goes on.
>>25046768do you ever steal lines from those books to use irl? there’s always lots of bon mots and cool expressions
>>25046768"the Man Who Paid His Way"
>>25048842I think it's better to avoid trying to pull a Marlowe, for me anyway. I'm not that witty Any good adaptions? Of course there's Bogart's Big Sleep, where I would have preferred if Marlowe didn't fall for Carmen like in the novel but I understand why they changed it. I saw 1969s Marlowe with James Garner and that was okayish but I think Garner played him for laughs too much. 1975s Farewell My Lovely was better. Apparently there was a Marlowe series on HBO in the 80s which I've never seen but it was set in 30s unlike most of the other post-Bogart entries
>>25046768https://www.loa.org/books/361-american-noir-eleven-classic-crime-novels-of-the-1930s-40s-amp-50s-boxed-set/
>>25046768Black Wings Has My Angel
>>25049582Only one movie has actually captured Marlowe's character for mehttps://youtu.be/vU-N2BZMvj4
>>25049995whoa I didn't know about these. Thanks anon
>>25046780Are there any Japanese pulp detective novels?
Try some anthologies by Otto Penzler, they usually are quite good. https://www.amazon.com/Best-American-Noir-Century-®-ebook/dp/B005LVR786
>>25046768Nero Wolfe Series by Rex Stouthttps://www.goodreads.com/series/51837-nero-wolfe
>>25047298>>Or ParkerWill second the Parker recommendation.
Any good ones that are set in New York City?
>>25048842which lines for example? >>25049582bogart was a terrible marlowe, and I'm tired of pretending otherwise. his fake accent is cringe, his campy scene in the big sleep is awful and ruins the character of marlowe. farewell my lovely 1944 and double indemnity 1944 (co-written) are the best chandler movies. farewell my lovely has more of the chandler dialogue you might expect, but the plot is shaky and rushed towards the end. powell was the marlowe character I imagned when I read chandler. lady in the lake 1947 was another movie with good chandler dialogue, but it's unfortunate that the first person point of view was used to shoot the movie because it ruins what could have been a great chandler adaption. I haven't seen the long goodbye from the 70s, though this movie should have been made in the 40s but there are some obvious problems with trying to make this particular plot into a movie. I need to watch the 70s version to see how it was done. it's a shame that most of the adaptions of chandler were messed up in one way or another.
>>25048341There's like 30 short stories and the books are mostly just combinations of different short stories.Character might not be named Marlowe in those but it's still deep down the same character.
>>2505630770s Long Goodbye is utter shit and has next to nothing to do with the book.
>>25054638I’ve read the first one. One armed detective on sleazy 1960s New York. He only has one arm so he has to talk or run away or out think or ambush his enemies. Makes it interesting when the go-to fisticuffs that is the bread and butter of most hardboiled detectives is off the table.
>>25056307>bogart was a terrible marloweRaymond Chandler praised Humphrey Bogart's performance.https://lithub.com/raymond-chandler-originally-wanted-cary-grant-to-play-philip-marlowe/
>>25058738Bogart did a great job with the script which was co-written by Faulkner but Chandler would have written a much better script. See Double Indemnity which was a solid book by Cain but Chandler's screenplay turns it into a masterpiece.
>>25056307Bogart's accent for film was simply transatlantic, same as any other actor of the age, although non-rhotic as was common among English users of the accent. He compensated for a lisp he had from scarring and deformity of his lip, and the accentuation he used to mask his lisp is source of what might be striking you as a phony accent. Trying to cultivate a proper actor's accent was the norm at the time and he just came as close as he could with his lisp.
>>25048842using that language in the modern day is going to be about as inconspicuous as a tarantula on a slice of angel food cake.
>>25059287Mostly because it involves dates idioms and slang. Hardboiled style is mostly confined to rap these dayshttps://youtu.be/hObvr_Iyl7k
>>25050354Not really close to what you want but Haruki Murakami was a fan of Chandler and I found that Dance Dance Dance seemed to take a lot of influence from The Long Goodbye especially
>>25048842I regularly say "how's tricks" as a greeting. So far no one has ever recognized it.
>>25058762I liked Bogart's Marlowe for what it was, which wasn't really how I picture book Marlowe but it was good as it's own thing. The biggest problem I have with the movie is that Marlowe falls for the older sister, where in the novel he thinks they're both aloof aristocrats and is only pressing the case because he feels bad for their dad for having to deal with them. And, if I'm not mistaken, Bogart was the one to push for that change because he was in a relationship with the actress who played Carmen. Out of the movies I've seen (I haven't seen all of them) the actor who got closest to how I pictured book Marlowe was Robert Michum in Farewell, My Lovely, although he played a much older version.
>>25060890It's more just that the brief romantic interest Marlowe has at the end when he's tied up is combined with Lauren Bacall's character because movies frequently combine characters in a book for the sake of simplification
