Grief Edish>Old:>>25064052>Recommended reading charts (Look here before asking for vague recs):https://mega.nz/folder/kj5hWI6J#0cyw0-ZdvZKOJW3fPI6RfQ/folder/4rAmSZxb>Archive:https://warosu.org/lit/?task=search2&search_subject=sffg>Goodreads:https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1029811-sffg
Reposting from the old thread because I want more people to be exposed to FUN stuff.Okay so I know there's been a lot of Donaldson bashing from a certain schizo and he's going to be triggered again but I want to talk about this short story called Animal Lover (from Daughter of Regals and Other Tales), it's about this futuristic (set in 2011 lol) cyborg cop who goes to investiage a series of hunting accidents, assuming the private preserve is being used for man-on-man hunting action and discovers they use genetically engineered animals that have been trained to use grenades, firearms and even mines against people and there's this absolutely crazy scene where the MC is caught between a howler monkey with an M-16 and a brown bear dual-wielding Magnums and I just have to say this is the craziest shit I've read in a long time, like the kind of crazy you'd have to be 12 or younger to come up with but an adult to actually turn into a coherent story.So guess what I'm saying is, I had a really good time with it.
>>25072147Thoughts on Doc Smith's Lensman series?
>>25072304purest space opera high on ideals and galactic-level stories, but also aged as fuck since it was written almost a century ago. that gives it favor, but also makes it unreadable for some people.
>>25071811>I know modern authors are basically required to insert this shit if they want a publisher, but it still made me do a double and triple take and cringe hard afterwards.gotta get them lgbtq+ tags somehow, anon
Just found out the next book on my list was written by a NAMBLA supporter, so here I am looking for a replacement.
>>25072304Lensman sticks in my imagination like no other sci-fi series, I like it better than Dune or BOTNS. It's higher-concept than many realize; it's essentially a speculation on how private FTL would create the ultimate robbers, and what the ultimate cops who could deal with those robbers might have to look like. There are other interesting speculations in it too, like the question of whether or not we'd even have a concept of beauty without courtship rituals, the things that would be possible if we could neutralize inertia, and what it would be like to travel along the fourth dimension. The heroes are all very likable, and the 30s-style dialogue is very fun too.Something really interesting about Doc Smith is that he really was a scientist. He worked as a chemist. When he describes what it feels like to work on a scientific project and eventually make a breakthrough, he's speaking from experience. When he describes the eccentric behavior of brilliant scientists, he's speaking as someone who personally knew brilliant scientists. The scientific arms race is an important part of the story, and keeping Smith's experiences in mind makes it very interesting.There was a re-write and re-release in the 70s, and as a result people usually read Lensman in what I would personally regard as the wrong order, starting with prequels that were written or incorporated into the main series decades after it was finished.I'm out of characters, I'll post my reading order another post.
>>25072396My recommended reading order for Lensman is:The main series, skip all prefaces and prologues and go straight to chapter 1 for all of these.>Galactic Patrol>Grey Lensman>Second Stage LensmanThe prequels, they will introduce elements of fatalism that are necessary for understanding the finale.>Triplanetary>First LensmanThe finale.>Children of the LensAnd then there's an unrelated story set in the same universe called the Vortex Blaster, it's probably set at some point between Second Stage and Children.
>>25072399thanks, you've sold me on it. I think authors like Wolfe and Doc Smith who have these real technical careers (and lived in an era of great active technology change) they must've needed an outlet to explore what future tech might look like, and their IRL experiences and expertise bleed into writing.
took this thread a while to pop up, had to go to sleep before i saw it.
Tell us>last book you’ve read>current read>next book you plan to readI’ll start:>lastI finished reading Oliver Twist. I really like Dickens although this ending felt rushed and weid. As in “this happened, then this happened, the end”. Good stuff, though, and it’s gotten me in the mood for a sort of “victorian” aesthetic fairy tale, so if anyone has any recs for that, please tell me.>currentReading The Heart of What Was Lost. It’s a good novella even though Tad by this point has a more modern approach to his prose. It looks like he’s definitely leaning more towards the ASOIAF tone. Still good.>nextI’ve wanted to finish The Last King of Osten Ard for a while now so I’m kind of excited to get into it next. decided to just do a reread of the series.
>>25072644why not start one yourself?
>>25072355Who?
>>25072355>>25072713Delaney?
The first 80% of this was good, then it felt like the author got the "Wrap it up" sign.
>>25072209I was going to order that book, but they changed the cover to this so I decided not to get it.
>>25072743I bought it used so I've got the old cover and delightfully aged paper.
>>25072147Christopher Priest is so good, dudes. The Prestige is still worth reading if you've seen the movie.
>>25072731well luckily there are 2 more books and might be better than the first.
>>25072396>>25072399>There was a re-write and re-release in the 70s, and as a result people usually read Lensman in what I would personally regard as the wrong order, starting with prequels that were written or incorporated into the main series decades after it was finished.I don't think reading the prequels first is a mistake in this case. You won't be spoiled, but you will get a lot of context and foreshadowing. I had no idea there was an anime based on Lensman.
>>25072804You do get spoiled though, the prequels will casually mention the exact chain of command of the Boskonians, where discovering that chain of command is a major part of the main series. Also I think the trillion years of backstory is more interesting after you're already invested in the story.
>>25072209sounds like something written by and for manchildren
>>25072147I wish got more prime Japanese artists doing covers. Noriyoshi Ohrai comes to mind.
>>25072837>the prequels will casually mention the exact chain of command of the Boskoniansthis is such a small thing in the context you'll blink and miss it, though
>>25072853It also explains the exact nature of the Boskonian culture, which is also something Kinnison figures out over the course of the main series.
More books like this?
What Dickens's (or anyone's else) books should I read if the only part of "The name of the wind" which I liked was the introductory wandering in the city (it reminded me of the Fable game series)? Oliver Twist?>City of Dreaming Books - Walter MoersOK, I have it in German.
>>25072862If you didn't know the genre is called speculative evolution.
>>25072864The best Dickens book is his first one The Pickwick Papers.
>get hit by a mobile meth-lab going 90km/h>die instantly>wake up good as new in what seems to be a crowded market square>stand on your feet and look around for a second>everyone seems to be in the early medieval era>you're wearing beggar's rags and have nothing else on you>the people are ignoring you so you find a quiet spot to eavesdrop>hear the crowd discussing gossip, barter, and nonsense in an odd but legible accent>overhear "Sweet Sejenus, I can't believe there's going to be a Holy War!">think about that for two secondsLegitimately, what do?
>>25072880Walk to the first temple I see, figure out what that god wants me to do, devote myself to them entirely, and spend the rest of my life assiduously avoiding hell
>>25072846Where do you think you are?
>>25072880Try to die a good death asap before I damn myself somehow
>>25072880Decide that is is only a dream and rape the first attractive girl I can get my hands on, then if the local constabulary takes issue with this cry out that I'm a leper and not to touch me.Pretty much what everyone else here would do, I should think :D
>>25072914Hmm I'm changing my answer. I do whatever I need to do to get enough money to buy Esmenet's cunt for a whole night and a day
>>25072880Look at my Status sheet and see what OP power the System has given my while waiting for my harem to arrive.
>first book is hunger games but worse with the crutch of a school setting>hate it>everyone keep telling me the sequels are good and different and almost feel like another author>read sequels>every conflict is born from someone being a massive idiot>everything is solved with an asspull like dragon ball's room of spirit and time>hate every character>can see the knight faggot redemption arc from a lightyear awayI'm never picking up another book by Pierce Brown again.
>>25072804That was a nice anime.
>>25073055Support male authors. Its really hard to get published if male.
>>25072304I found Triplanetary unreadable despite the innovative (for its day) ideas.
>start reading House of Chains>remember all the vague posts about Karsa>expect a mary sue barbarian>get a based autistic retardI thought this nigga would be like Conan but he's more like Don Quixote. Still kind of a mary sue tho.
>>25073096Carsa is basically "what if a Barbarian pulled a 180 and went on a totally different story arc?"
I've been thinking about this. And thinking about what the point of writing this circumstance is, when the only possible solutions can only be:Something not previously established, which is revealed and must be acceptedSomething previously mentioned, which is revealed and must be accepted.I dont know if its a true problem. But I find myself being uninterested in this circumstance, because the Holy War ending, is obviously out of the question.So all these pages are essentially just a wait, for the conclusion, because nothing inbetween is interesting in itself, no new information has been established, there has been zero character dialogue, and nothing actually important has been lost, the book itself knows how insignificant (to the reader, not necessarily to the story, it might end up being (if the writing is poor) that some person that was lost as a result of this was actually secretly super important for future events, we were never privy to knowing) the people post are, because it spends no more than like a paragraph talking about all the people they had to leave behind or kill.I dont want to be too critical because I dont think its fair, there are probably sequences like this in every great book.But the reason I mention this, is because its become a pattern for me reading this book. I dont even bother digesting certain sentences, or trying to understand the abstract flowery way he described mountaints as shoulders, because I did that for the first book, and the beginning of the second book, and almost none of that paying attention to detail has mattered.I paid attention to how the Vulgar Holy War arose, and it didnt matter, I simply had to accept it. Similarly with how the Cishaurim were killed by the Shrial Knights "Pride, and being conveniently blindsided by retreating Fanim" is all I was given. And then the next fight. Kellhus takes down like a dozen people or whatever, and the Scarlet Spires come to save the day in the end, even though the Fanim's strategy was actually smart and working. I actually dont mind this one as much, because they explain it by something established before (Achamian was captured, so Proyas threatened the Scarlet Spires, and for whatever reason they took this threat seriously) It doesnt explain well why this one threat mattered more to the Scarlet Spires (or if it did, im stupid and missed it) but I give it a pass, because atleast it used a previously established event as the basis for this event happening. One could say "But that occured too when Kellhus told Saubon to sacrifice the Shrial Knight" but the way the Shrial Knights surprise the Cishaurim requires so much more convenience that its not the same.I typed up this post, to ask if im genuinely reading this book wrong. If my expectation that the journey or set up barely matters, because the conclusion has to be accepted regardless. Is me taking things too seriously
Wowza! this Kellhus dude is literally like Jesus or something, legit found Water deep in sand out of nowhere. I must not be educated enough to understand how he did this. I'd consider him a prophet too if he pulled this shit on me
Please take your meds
>>25073178can you get trip?
>>25073096I wish people would stop misusing the term "mary sue". It doesn't even make any sense, remotely, applied to Karsa Orlong.
Was this genuine from Kellhus? Only he and Cnauir know about his father, not really any reason for him to yell this out unless they use "Father" in this world to refer to God the same way we do, but honestly, I dont remember them doing that much, especially since arent the Gays of Tusk, a polytheistic shithole?Could be a genuine cry from the looks of it.
>>25073210Listen man I only just got past his into but that first part was pretty much just>imma rush these fags>you can't do that bro>WITNESS>no diffs 20 dudes>repeatI couldn't fault his reasoning and could see his growth but it's getting silly. He literally had to be restrained for weeks just to get some thought going. Bairoth WAS a whiny bitch tho.
>>25073239The stuff he's doing in the intro is just low-level tribal skirmishes that, to his sheltered mind, are epic deeds. He gets his ass beat the minute he encounters properly organized fighters (Malazans, naturally) and this is a major deal to him. All he did was lose a fight he picked with an entire company of hardened Malazan veterans. DESU sounds like you just got sucked into Karsa's PoV too much and bought into his hype. I mean, what he's doing is basic, bare bones tribal warfare here. There's nothing epic about it, despite his framing of his actions and grandiose statements and boasts. He's killing people that clearly are not real warriors, they're just simple rustic folk trying to live their lives. He's clearly an insane backwoods cultist who cleaves to a much more fanatical strain of their people's religion and has meticulously prepared for this road trip / killing spree his whole life, while everybody else would just rather live in peace.
>>25073085Unironically true.
>>25073233Probably a lot of people who read books are as stupid as you, only they don't advertise it
>>25073316omggg trueee...dat guy so stoopid not like us true bakker fans...:D
>>25072656>last book you’ve readThere is no Antimemetics Division. I read the original SCPs years ago and got this recently and enjoyed it. 4.5/5.>current readDebating whether I should start Seven Surrenders or Dungeon Crawler Carl.>nextWhatever I don't pick in ^.
Why am I meant to accept the stupidity of this? I parsed my lips because I was honestly tired of explaining, but seeing the approaching outcome of the Contrivance. Its just stupid.Why would Xinemus do this unless suicidal? Why would he even think this would be possible? There wasnt even an attempt to pretend he had an actual plan. When the writing said "Dinchas and Zenkappa followed him because of a loyalthy that transcended fear of death" Im just supposed to accept this because................ive been told so? Events like this, make characters feel less like characters than they already are, and more like "pawns" except if these were pawns of the other characters it would still be stupid without previously established conditions (sort of like when Kellhus convinces Saubon to march early, but that one was a bit more believable, even though ridiculous, because of what we briefly learned about Saubon, through Kellhus' allknowing judgement) but atleast acceptable. But stuff like this makes characters pawns of the author, and at that point, even ignoring the character writing problem that would pose. It makes the story feel, more like a story, and less like a telling of events, as stories strive to be, else it be hollow.But it doesnt end there. Why does he and his "helpers" drop the Chorae? For what? Youre fucked with or without the chorae, why would you give them anymore leverage?Kellhus is such a cheatcode for this entire story, that legit, you could later give an explanation saying "Kellhus actually had convinced Xinemus to go save Achamian" and as stupid as it still would be, itd be more acceptable because its already established that Kellhus is Jesus Christ and can do whatever he wants except for magic (yet)But I doubt that since like a couple pages before this, it literally tells us the Wathi Doll is awake, and other than Achamian and Kellhus, who else could wake it?Anyway this shit was so unfortunate to read. Just ruined the character od Xinemus, cant even think of him as a character anymore, just something to be sacrificed for intrigue. All past interactions of his, with characters are now viewed in the light that he was a sacrificial character who existed for nothing but this moment. To pathetically beg while mispelling please, to his dear tortured friend, Achamian.
>>25073468The second apocalypse is not a series for plotfags. You read it for the prose, and as a sleep aid during esmet chapters.
WHAT'S A GOOD BOOK ABOUT GLADIATORS FIGHTING FOR GLORY AND HONOR ON THE SANDS
>>25073474>The second apocalypse is not a series for plotfags.So caring about character writing, and depth, and characters being more than just features of the plot. Is called being a "plotfag?">You read it for the prose, and as a sleep aid during esmet chapters.Is that so? The impression of the series I was given before reading it, is that its deep, and philosophical, and makes an argument for determinism so good, that it had a christian youtube retard seething because he thought the world was too negative that determinism was a given or something.I'm not a prose expert, but it definitely tries hard. I like when mountains are described as shoulders sometimes.
Xinemus was a waste of a character, but at the very least Iyokus, when not bowing to Eleazaras. Seems to have a semblance of personhood. The dialogues between characters trying to understand eachother and fish for greater understanding of the surrounding events is my favourite part of the books. Too bad, apparently its just a prose book that cant be criticized for its randomly seemingly contrived plot progression, and sometimes shallow characters who seemingly exist for no other reason than to validate some other characters' purpose.
>>25073597I wasn't being disparaging with the "plotfags" remark. The books are carried hard by their prose and potential, the plot itself is weighted down heavily by Kelhaus and I think the "grimdark" moniker influenced too much of the plot.
>>25073612>the plot itself is weighted down heavily by KelhausWhat do you mean exactly? Its not that I necessarily disagree. Im starting slowly to see the problems with Kellhus, when he gets as powerful as hes slowly becoming, the need to gain insights becomes less ans less prominent, and by virtue of that, the possible "depth" of character that can be revealed in other characters by his interactions with them, becomes less relevant. So many of his interactions now, are just repeats of his first/initial judgements of characters. And when you know almost every character is going to succumb to him, or just give up (Cnauir) then theres very little to be reaped there. It becomes a game where every character is just some different shade of the most generic and base aspects of human desires and feelings. Theres no actual character, simply representations.But I dont know if this is the problem youre outlying with Kellhus. I personally value character depth much much more than plot. I consider plot, to be the sort of landscape for certain characters to be "triggered" and reveal more about themselves than prior thought. And if the plot is contrived, then those characters arent genuine, and if those characters are genuine, theyre not meaningful.Thats all, thats the basis for basically all my judgements of writing.I have nothing against prose, what I dont like is when prose feels like a substitute for having nothing else really interesting to write. When it feels like fluff, rather than decorations, or toppings, or sweeteners, or condiments, or whatever is meant to enhance, or add new taste, rather than simply add taste to something fundamentally bland.
>>25073638The problem with Kelhaus is he is persuasive because other characters tell us he is. He is intelligent because we are told he is etc. We never see his brilliance on the page, only others reacting to his supposed brilliance. The entire plot revolves around him being the most smarterest person ever to a supernatural degree, but never on page do we actually see this.Take him away and you just have an edgy retelling of the first crusade with wizards every once in a while. (That very conveniently only show up when the plot demands it.)I wouldn't mind this so much, but the story is also constatnly stuck in the morass of the akka/esmet cuck fantasy, a morass so deep and so wide that everything must grind to a screeching halt at least 5 times a book just so we can retread the same old shit over and over.
25073650I'm just going to stop telling anons to read if this is the result. Like yeah bro, books are for nerds, they don't help you with anything, ignore them you aren't missing out.
>Singlehandedly ruined Bakker’s reputation on /sffg/ foreverbased autist
>>25073761Yeah Bakker sucks! Never read him, he's a waste of time.
>>25073735>Like yeah bro, books are for nerdsLol youre a fucking retard. Unbelievable that these are the retards who think the medium exists is for them.
>>25073650>The entire plot revolves around him being the most smarterest person ever to a supernatural degree, but never on page do we actually see this.You might be stricter than me. I give stuff like this a pass, because otherwise the standard for writers would be unrealistic, there simply arent that many good writers, and even the good writers would rather waste their time coming up with made up names for places and things, that sounf vaguely arab, rather than meticulously establish the basis of abstract concepts, like super intelligence, super strength, magic, etc.Besides, what Kellhus does isnt that unbelievable. The basics of just telling people what they want to hear. What super power territory, is the fact he can basically read minds. Its not actually the hardest thing ever to guess what somebodys thinking, or how theyre feeling based on context clues and personal experience. I guess the weird thing about Kellhus is that he clearly has very little direct human experiences, and is able to generalize way too easily based on the limited experience he does have. No matter how simplistic you think humans to be, it doesnt work. AI are like infinitely "smarter" than 99% of humans if you consider knowledge and problem solving to be smart, but anybody with direct experience with AI can tell you how dumb it is, and how much it misses about the nuances of human experience. This is how I'd frame the problem with Kellhus "fundamentally". But I outlined that what he does isnt unbelievable, because I care more about how things manifest, rather than how they CAN manifest, its why I give it a pass. Else I could do what I just did above. The books dont do enough to justify Kellhus, because they cant and dont answer my proposition about AI, intelligence, human emotions etc.A very easy way to solve your problem, would be to make Kellhus occasionally wrong, and/or outline a process. Have you ever watched the TV show House? His intelligence is rarely contrived, because hes almost always wrong about his initial judgments until reality proves him wrong, and he acquires new information, and even then, he can still end up wrong, because reality is just that complex.I like to criticize things on the basis of how interesting they are though, because otherwise it can feel like criticism for criticisms sake. A lot of people levy a similar criticism you do, to House, but theyre objectively wrong. Especially because there are consequences or disadvantages for Houses intelligence even when hes right.So I understand your criticism. But this is why I didnt criticize Kellhus for that
>>25073801>So I understand your criticismI don't. The story explains what Kellhus is and it puts you in his POV several times. But there are no good novels that explain every single thing to the reader like a toddler. If you can't read into the subtext why Kellhus is doing or saying something from another character's perspective, your reading level is not high enough to judge the story. The least you could do is not project your ignorance onto the text.
>>25073266>DESU sounds like you just got sucked into Karsa's PoV too much and bought into his hype.Did you miss the Don Quixote reference? Never read the classics eh?
>>25073819>I don't. The story explains what Kellhus is and it puts you in his POV several times. But there are no good novels that explain every single thing to the reader like a toddler.I see that you're stupid and cant read, be glad that this modern world exists for your ilk.I'm not even going to bother responding further, you didnt address anything i said.
>>25073874Well he did tell you that your reading level is not high enough to judge the story, which is evident. That combined with you being so sure you're so smart and perfectly get everything is the problem. If you don't get shit, and accept that then that is fine and I'll try my best to help as far as I can, but if you don't get shit and then go>uuuhhhh actually it's the book thats stupid, not me!you make people angry.>Why would Xinemus do this?Because he always regretted not being there for Achamian when it mattered. He is a man of honour. probably the most honourable man we see in that book. Achamian means a lot to him, and now that everyone else left him behind, he just couldn't but try saving him. He also knows what it means to be captured by the scarlet spires.>Why drop the chorae?Panic? Not wanting this to be the end? Who knows. People do stupid shit in such situations, look at literally any combat footage. Also there is a big difference to being detected or attacked by the enemy, and being completely ambushed out of nowhere like they were.And why this autism? Yeah if he hadn't dropped the chorae they may have been able to "just" die, but is that really the in the moment solution you would come up with in that second, being ambushed, not really knowing shit?
>>25073938>And why this autism?Its getting annoying how much criticism is called "autism". Without an engagement with the actual criticism. The fact that you answered "Xinemus is honourable, so retarded shit goes" and dont realize the problem with that, but the fact that I pointed out the problem is concerning.I even explain why its a problem. You realize I'm not asking questions because Im unaware of the surface level answer right? I read the fucking book too, infact I bet I read that exact sequence I was criticizing more recently than you. I know the reasons the book gives. My contention is that the reasons the book gives are not justified or sufficient, so citing information from the book makes no sense (especially if it doesnt actually explain anything) unless its information or hidden detail I wasnt aware of.The fact that Im even asking, is an indication of some respect and expectation for a hidden depth im not aware of. It shows that I respect the book enough to ask, else typically, id just call it dumb and stop reading.I wonder if this just comes from a poor psychological foundation? Maybe when I learnt in 10th grade Psychology the many manifestations of the mind and (stupidly) thought that Every Human Being is complex (theyre not) I carried on that principle throughout the years and applied that expectation of complexity to writing. That expectation that human beings arent simply "one way" or "another". That there are reasons always why somebody thinks a certain way or not. That the place where the concept of nature vs nuture was first introduced and first seemed meaningful (10th grade psych) instilled in me a principle by which to want to understand people deeper than "He is honourable and cares about his friend"Anyway ignore my rambling, I don't think you'll get it.I can tolerate the illusion of depth. I can tolerate the illusion of reason, expecting more from writers would be absurd, despite the unique capacity for detail and delving into a mind, or a circumstance that writing possesses over almost any other medium.What I couldn't tolerate, was Xinemus going from what was vaguely a character, to something to be featured by the plot. Something to be used by the plot. Because that breaks the illusion of character. Is it that hard to understand?
>>25072794
>>25073977>ignore my ramblinggive me a way to reliably filter you and I will>.. is concerningThis is not twitter
>>25073997>is concerning is a twitter word/phrase twitter invented words and phrases never ever used before twitterI think we're done here. Your capacity for intelligence, is indeed concerning :)
>>25073991he just like me
>>25072304I wish more people would read Lensman in general. It's good to experience how differently SF was written quite some time ago.
>>25073991what a dingus
>>25073991I like this.
>>25073468I could accept Ximenus' bravery and love for Achamian as a sufficient explanation, but it beggars belief that this highly placed military man doesn't know that his chorae will give him away. I could understand his lieutenants not knowing this and so following him on a mission much more dangerous than they know, but how could he possibly not know this? Especially given he has a longstanding personal relationship with a sorcerer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB5DroolqFU
>>25072801doesn't he die at the end of the first one
>>25072355>NAMBLA supporterwatt?
>>25073597Xinemus serves an important purpose later in the third book.
>>25074597
Finally got around to finishing book 1 of the first law and also my first Abercrombie book. It was an enjoyable read and better than what I expected considering how people on here talk about him. I loved that the entire book was just character focused and I thought pretty much every single POV was really well done especially Glokta who is horrible and vile but also relatable in understanding why he is such a cantankerous cunt. Looking forward to seeing how the rest of the series go.
>>25075261Glokta is by far and away the best character in the whole franchise.
>>25075263Yeah I'm not surprised. He's the most unique and interesting of the book so far. I do like Bayaz a lot as well as an inverse of Gandalf.
>>25075261how abercrombie went from the first law to the devils is beyond me
>>25075299It was obviously written as a direct to adaption novel. No sovl in it, just money chasing which he got considering how fast the book was picked up by studios.
>>25075299That's more because people think the wrote nothing between The First Law and The Devils. It wasn't really a sudden decline.
I just dont understand it. I dont understand why he loves to create these absurd scenarios that cannot possibly have anything but an equally absurd solution/conclusion.I can only guess at it having some roundabout relevance later down the line, sort of like this guy >>25074733 implies for Xinemus. Its very clear if youre going to bruteforce your story like that and ruin any semblance of character in Xinemus, that he is simply something to be held onto as a plot device, or used in that very instance as a plot device. But it genuinely makes zero fucking sense, in any writing respect (I guess other than maybe the weird allusions to Achamian being able to withstand harsh pain and torture by larping as Seswatha in his daydreams, but we already knew that before Xinemus arrived so...?) for Xinemus to do what he does, unless it has some arbitrary relevance that isnt yet revealed.At this point Im just reading, to see if he can possibly justify all this weird random shifts of the plot he likes to employ. If it all has some ultimate purpose by the end that can "redeem" it all.
Back to the RARE instance of CHARACTER DIALOGUE that I OCCASIONALLY get the chance to enjoy.The flip flop of enjoyment and boredom I get with this book is something I need to look at more closely. I need to understand properly why the character dialogues entice me, despite my staunch affirmation that this is a series with no true characters (depth)
Interesting. Hm. Interesting. Lets hope this not be as stupid a story for determinism as it seems possible it could be.
>>25074715Probably Delany
I was going to say that it would be neat to have a /lit/ /sffg/ book club, but I just know that it would devolve into /pol/ shit posting...I had a gf who went to a bunch of book clubs irl and she said that even those always ended up becoming about political matters
>>25075734No surprise when you can't shut up about it yourself even pre-emptively in your imagination
>>25075736a side effect of reading posts on 4chan i'm afraid
>>25074614no
>>25075324Having only read First Law I don't see it as a decline. He started bad enough to me.
>>25073468>just something to be sacrificed for intrigue>Kellhus is such a cheatcode for this entire story>It makes the story feel, more like a story, and less like a telling of events, as stories strive to be, else it be hollow.oh boy you have no ideabakker's like the final boss of story subvertionists, while small-minded hollywood hacks are like "wot if the damsel *wasn't* in distress", bakker's on a whole other level of "wot if a story was just a bunch of guys gay-anal-raping each other until it kind of ended... oh and wot if I also got in a tiff with my publisher so 4 out of 7 books are barely-edited first drafts"leave while you still can
>>25075960>wot if I also got in a tiff with my publisher so 4 out of 7 books are barely-edited first drafts"??? qrd? usually i support stuff like this because i feel untainted creations, with zero inkling of a desire to appeal to the masses, are better
>>25075962Certainly, editing can go too far, but in this case we're not talking about evil censors suppressing Bakker's genius vision of gay anal rape and pendulous phalluses - we're talking about blatant spelling errors, endless repetition and plotlines that just go nowhere (well, the whole series is a plotline that goes nowhere, but still).Now, bakkerfags will tell you that this is all deliberate and recite their quotes about the "SLOG OF SLOGS" like some corny little cult, but I've never found the smug "um, actually it's *supposed* to be shit" line to be a particularly compelling artistic argument.As for why it happened - since neither author nor publisher are super big names, I don't think there has actually been any particularly detailed airing out of the drama. From what I could gather, Bakker had a contract for a 3-book series but expanded the scope to a 4th one, which pissed the publisher off, and that combined with overall poor sales I guess led to them not being willing to dedicate resources for a good editor to the project. I'd guess there's also probably not that many editors working for an otherwise reputable publishing house who are into trying to edit hentai-doujin-tier rape scenes.He also seems to have gotten it into his head that he's a Tolkien-esque figure and he *really* needs to have massive appendices of his own, over 200 pages even, which couldn't have helped matters.
Went to a bookstore I don't normally go to a few days ago. They had a "fill up a bag" sale for bargain books, so I filled up a bag with a bunch of fantasy and sci-fi and got a couple of novels that weren't on sale as well. Currently reading picrel, although I'm going to have to alternate it with a Gaunt's Ghosts novel I got at the thrift store.
