They are:>honest and unabashed in their resentment for the world and their place in it, as opposed to repressive, seeing a side of Eru that others do not. Perhaps experiencing transcendence and self-forgetting in the glory of battle>have a love for destruction in a world that already resolutely tends toward its own destruction>disruptive to the hedonic lives of morribund decadentsCan we really say that their lives are based on a mere privation? Can we really say that their society is dysfunctional when it quite clearly persists so tenaciously? Do they not instead embody their own vital, living principle? Or are you too much of a pussy for dynamic dualism?
What even are the orcs trying to achieve? Create a total shithole? What happens when every other creature has been eaten and nature destroyed and there is nothing left but ash and rock? Eat each other, I suppose.
>>25121503Some Morgul / Mordor orcs discuss this in "The Two Towers" and the first chapters of book 6 in "Return of the King".These orcs hope to set themselves up as barons with humans and maybe hobbits working under them.Saruman's mutated mixed orcs, I dunno. Probably enough for them to get head pats from the white wizard.
>>25121503orcs maybe don't mind ash and rock, but what about Saruman? did he want to live in an absolute shithole where there is no one to even talk to except orcs?
>>25121491>the american sees no issue with a life of small minded hedonism and waging war in the name of an evil overlord pursuing egoistic ends
learn to shitpost better
a very low-iq orc made this thread
>>25121558I think Saruman was trying to usurp Sauron by claiming the ring for himself.
>>25121573>life of small minded hedonism and waging war in the name of an evil overlord pursuing egoistic endsSounds like what Men have always been doing, gratifying their worldly desires and not even enjoying the process itself, just the idea of the ends.
>>25121506>These orcs hope to set themselves up as barons with humans and maybe hobbits working under them.So, basically, romans. And virtually every ancient army. Hell, even Nazi Germany.
>>25121491I believe I am a spiritual orc, as in I have inherited the soul of a civilization destroyer. Nothing brings me pleasure but the destruction of civilization, for some reason. When I first read Gibbon's books describing the gothic sacking of Rome, I was more intrigued than horrified. I saw it as a textbook on how I could practice such in my own land, according to the laws and problems of my local diocese.I also have come to adore figures like Attila the Hun, Alaric, Geiseric, Rollo, Genghis Khan, Cortez, Dong Zhuo, and other such types associated as bringers of ruin. At the same pace I detest civilization very much, and this has expressed in a complete incapacity to live among people. The only time I felt peace with myself was when I was deployed, having enlisted for the fantasy of killing people, but eventually settling down and learning to enjoy a cozy welding position because the US army was not truly the place to spread chaos and destruction (I assume the FBI, CIA and the airforce would have been better for me), and I took company in replaced tires and a torch better than in other fellow americans.There is definitely something wrong with me. I am not unfit of social and intellectual skills as not being able to function in society, but I simply do not want it. It is like I cannot feel love, only falsehood and suspicion. And I want to tear it apart, expose it as the lie it is while providing no replacement for what I destroy.I'd love to lord over a broken people, but I have no plan for anyone. So maybe I understand the orcs. I'd rather see civilization destroyed than surviving on false truths.
Very true, OP. However, you forgot to add:>no women or pressure to please or impress women. Just boys enjoying the fight for its own sake.
>>25121817Very much.Women represent the civilization of aggression, violence turned to chivalry, banditism turned to war, aggression turned to protection. If you are an "orc", none of this will satisfy you.A life of pleasing another is unlivable.
>>25121817Orcs will want to fuck women too, just elvish women. They put the bone to Celebrían.They'll settle for humans. I dunno about hobbits.
>>25121558the ultimate goal for saruman, i imagine, would be that orcs would just be cannon fodder for the war until all that remains is saruman and other evil humans.
>>25121854I once had this idea for orcs to be this essential barbarians who are physically incapable of civilization. And orc Enkidu would have had to be dragged to Uruk only to inevitably turn into a Bartleby, refusing to do or take anything offered until he slowly turned to a stone husk.
Tolkienfags are so gay.
Movies are better
>>25121491They are ugly, stupid, hateful, and incurious. They are retards in the shit slinging way, not the based way.
>>25121854Women turn men into orcs.Introduce a cunt into a male company and see what happens. The main message of the Iliad is that cunt brings ruin.Isn't the main quality of the orcs to rape everything in sight, which requires the presence of women?You, fags, who thinks women are a noble civilizing element are the most pathetic bottom bitch subhumans on the site.
Orcs are pagans, but pagans have always been better historically, except for the last 200 years.
>>25121503What are crocodiles trying to achieve? Wolves? Butterflies? Their motivations are secondary to the role they play.
>>25121652>>25121888Somehow both of you missed his point. His question is basically does Sarumon just want to rule over a miserable shithole full of orcs and misery and death. I suppose the answer is yes he wants to rule in hell rather than serve in heaven. But it still doesn't make that much sense
>>25121491Their "society" exists purely because some evil entities require fighting meat and get that meat by corrupting their enemies physically and mentally while suppressing free will and achieving obedience through fear, violence both psychological and physical and indoctrination through all aforementioned methods - thus making this society "persisting" fully artificially and, as we see, falls apart the moment big eye goes boom.
>>25122483That entity? Eru.If they were turned from elves or men into orcs, then that means that all elves or men carry the potential of orcdom within themselves
>>25121503See: Putin
>>25121503Every OG orc is like a little icon of Morgoth. One can theorize that since Morgoth couldn't create life that, like Sauron and the rings, he literally put pieces of his own soul into orcs and trolls and dragons. At least it's definitely true for trolls, and that's why they turn to stone in sunlight.Saurons Uruks are rape babies with humans and we're all mind controlled by Sauron.
>>25122303Saruman is just 19th century industrialization personified. Smog filled skies, everything metal, no signs of nature as far as the eye can see he'd orgasm if he witnessed modern Beijing, or Berlin in 1938.
I think it's hilarious how liberals so naturally associated orcs with black people.
>>25122153I wrote an essay metaphysically proving that the spirit behind the films is superior to the Books.Kino Aragorn resisted the ring, because his will was greater. In books no human can resist ring, it belittles Humanity and we'll never be able to save ourselves even though Sauron is defeated.
>>25121491orcs have no souls nor free will if you take the viewpoint that they were not perversions of elves/men, bur rather perversions of animals.I think this might be the case, as you don't really hear about elves thinking about all the orcs they've slain meeting them again in the Halls of Mandos/Valinor nor having the Gift of Men. If they were perversions of men/elves then their fates would be the same as men/elves, but seemingly they're not.
>>25122970Doesn't the silmarillion confirm that they were descended from corrupted elves?
>>25121857And, I'm sure, elvish women want to fuck them
>>25123335Even if that was the case, it's still likely that, due to the corruption, Orc babies have no souls and instead borrow a part of Morgoth's own essence animating them. See: all of middle earth is "Morgoth's Ring'.
>>25123846And this is why Saruman's Uruk-Hai was such a breakthrough. He managed to create a new human race with souls not cursed by the sun (goblin-men, half-orcs, Uruk-Hai are all of a kind.)He had to do this because Sauron literally mind controls all Orcs/gives them reason, otherwise they are like rabid pitbulls incapable of strategy or cohesion (also why he can't join battles after losing Ring). Saruman had to do this since otherwise he'd never be able to attack Sauron once he got the ring.>and no Sauron and Saruman don't sound similar, Saw ruh man vs Sour on. Saw (the wood cutting tool—the pun that he deforested Fangorn was probably subconscious) and Sour (taste) or 'Sore', the A in Sauron is very weak while the R in Saruman is very weak, and vice versa: Sourrrron vs Sah Uh Man
>>25121491Orcs are bad because Tolkien (assuming you're talking about his canon) wrote them as such. LotR is not exactly even-handed or amoral. We don't really even know anything about a society canonically, or whether such even exists. Clearly they can function militarily, but Tolkien never really specified whether they even have as much as free will. There is no canonical informaton on whether they procreate, even.And look, to some extent I'm even willing to agree with you. I was born in the former USSR, and while Tolkien did not like or approve of seeing his work as political allegory, we saw orcs in ourselves and to some extent empathized with them. When I was young, so did I. So I get where you're coming from.But if we want to be discussing this seriously, we have to admit that when we're talking about orcs, we're putting words into Tolkien's mouth and filling in the blanks he left the way we like. So unless you can specify what you personally see orcs as, it's impossible to seriously discuss, we'll just be talking past each other.
>>25121491>>25122275If you want to idealize animals, why do you keep partaking in the comforts of civilization and not run off to live in the woods right now?
>>25122164>Introduce a cunt into a male company and see what happens. The main message of the Iliad is that cunt brings ruin.If you're willing to betray the people you call friends for some pussy, isn't this a failing of your own character? Blaming an external force for it is dodging responsibility for your actions.
>>25121573And you wonder why we bomb you
>>25124349Responsibility means nothing when basic needs aren't being fulfilled
>>25124389You can justify any kind of immoral behavior with this. No wonder you idolize orcs lmao.
>>25124396you're just a pussy
>>25124396>You can justify any kind of immoral behavior with thisMany people do exactly that. Nobody wants to be a stoic practicing life-affirmation and apatheia
>>25124343I'm not enkidu and orcs don't exist. Might as well ask a christian "if heaven is so great, why not become a martyr right now?"
>>25124343>If you want to idealize animalsNo one idealized animals anon
>>25124432Many people spam soijaks. Does this make it a worthwhile endeavor?
>>25124420And you are easily controlled by pussy, which would logically make you my bitch.
>>25124447nah I'm just your mom's bitch. I bark like a dog in heat whenever she's around.
>>25124482This website is 18+ only, little boy.
>>25123335I think it does say that pretty clearly in the SIlmarillion, but at the same time I'm aware that Tolkein struggled with the idea of 'orc souls' in the later years of his life in his collected letters. So i think it can be relatively ambiguous, but pointing towards the idea of them being elves/men with wiggle room for interpretation. They are inherently bound to Morgoth and Middle Earth though, rather than being free like Men (and Elves to a lesser extent, although it could be argued that the Elves lack souls as well as they can not 'leave' Middle Earth ever) as mentioned by this anon (i.e. Morgoth's Ring) >>25123846>>25123866Yeah the Uruks are an interesting one, and in the book they're more akin to the rogues and orc-men that are encountered at Bree and during the Scouring than the Jackson Uruks. Nevertheless, they're an interesting dilemma if they're both Orc and Man as they would have as well as not have a soul in lore terms, but this plays in nicely to the idea that men are easily corruptable or have a tendency to become 'orcish'. Unsure.
>>25121573That's not what the the star of david looks like.
>>25124444Many people chase sex and limpy recognition, does that make it a permissable endeavor so that the whole state should protect this very singular and constricted lifeform?
>>25121669...and virtually every group of warriors in history...
>>25124688>limpy recognition>this very singular and constricted lifeform?Holy ESL
>>25124526I'm 43. Struck a nerve or something?
>>25124643I can imagine it being consistent that Uruk-Hai are men with Orc/Morgothian corruption, much like the first elves, so they do have souls.Rather than Orcs with human aspects.That they're more Man than Orc, yet even worse than any Orc.
>>25125768(*first elven Orcs)
>>25125768In a way they're the antithesis to Numenorians or Elros and 'half-elven'.
>>25124856dude thats more imberassing
>>25125768yeah that's a good shout desu, although i wonder what that means for their ultimate fate? As far as I'm aware there's no 'hell' in middle earth, so are the Uruks destined for 'heaven' (or its equivalent in Eä) as all men are?>>25125771yeah this is a good observation too, will keep this in mind for future reads
>Orc Day:>11:00 AM - Wake-up call>11:05 AM - Rape of the nearest goblin>11:10 AM - Breakfast (same goblin, blood will >serve as drink)>11:30 AM - Bowel movement (head of a slain >goblin)>11:40 AM - 1:10 PM - Training with friends, >including swords, axes, and bows>1:20 PM - 2:30 PM - Clan dinner (today's >menu includes baked mumakil in fruit and >plenty of ginger ale)>2:30 PM - 4:00 PM - Free time, rape, and >marauding>4:00 PM - Afternoon tea (children conceived >by human women through rape and tea)>4:15 PM - 10:00 PM - Optional military >expedition>10:00 PM - 2:00 AM - Feast at the camp, >ceremonial feast of fallen comrades, rape of >civilians, optional feast of civilians>2:00 PM - Sleep (dreams of murder, feast and rape)
