Why didn't you tell me how fun these books are? They make me want to go on adventures.
>>25151724because everyone here is actually a faggot
>>25151724Everyone will tell you that Jordan was paid by the word, but I think he was aware of the enabling effect of delayed gratification and used intense repetition to ground the reader's understanding of the world in the world and therefore created a sense of time passing slowly by, which also serves to accentuate the explosive action sequences. *Sniffs, smoothes skirt, tugs braid and leaves*
>>25151883wait come back, what shampoo do you use
This book was the shitiest book I ever read. Twenty years ago I was on the subway in Toronto and some meth freak saw me reading it and blurted out loud "THAT BOOK IS THE BEST BOOK EVER WRITTEN!!!! SHAI TAIN SHAI TAN SHAI TAN" over and over. At the point, a Shrek like character named Loyal appeared, and I'm like fuck this. I left the book on the seat and got off at Dundas Station
>>25151724Bitter fags trash talk them for some reason, but if you just want a fun series that will let you slip into a realm of fantasy and forget about the real world for a while, there's nothing better. I re-read every 18 months or so. The prose declines in quality when Sanderson takes over but the story is still good.
>alright so book 1 is just the intro it gets really good soon>yeah, no that ENTIRE book was filler>I know, that character is super boring, but like they're more of a set-piece, you'll see later on in book 7 hehe
>>25152907Lol no. The pacing only slows down more as the series continues
>>25151724They're like watching reels or some shit like that. It's fun at first, but then at some point you realize you've read all this shit before and the story isn't going anywhere, but you have already spent a lot of time on it and well, why not some more? At that point you either abandon the series, or you become one of his die hard fans.
Having read like 11 books of Robert Jordan made really appreciate his style and prose.The Brandon Sanderson Books were so hart to stomach. Really rustled my jimmies how distasteful his writing is compared to its immense popularity.
>>25151724>800 pages >part 1 of about a million
>>25153125stockholm syndrome
>>25153130Perhaps...perhaps...I think I also feel quite fondly of Jordan because he seems to have a lot more life experience than Sanderson and to me this is strongly felt through their respective writing.
>>25151724Because the writing in them degrades at one point.The first few are where he's finding his feet, and it's obvious (there's even a scene in EoTW that's basically repeated almost exactly 100 pages later, he and his editor obvious missed it). Then later on, he starts to get into some real good stuff, book 4, 5, 6. But then at some point I think the pressure of constantly writing or success got to him. It definitely becomes a slog. Like they were long right from the beginning, but they start to degenerate into long patches of interior rambling thought where the characters really say nothing of substance whatsoever. It's honestly this, more than any problems with the plot or the characters, that bugged me the most. Jordan always wrote with a lot of interior voice, but it just much more frequently goes off on rambling, circular tangents that feel like it's just him pumping out words. I don't think he was paid to write by the word, but I think he was definitely just pushing himself to write more while not having the fuel for it.
>>25153307Speaking as someone who suffered from a version of this problem: It's OCD. You get into the habit of trying to cover every relevant thought the character should have in each scene so the reader doesn't feel like you're neglecting something. For me, this habit started during early exchanges with editors where I kept getting feedback to reinforce character motivation. At some point you risk being repetitive and heavyhanded, but as a writing habit hardens, it's very hard to change. And once you're successful commercially, you lack an incentive to change.
>>25153307How long ago did you read it? My last read through was a few months ago and I think the only part that this criticism really applies to is the endless slog in books 9-11 ish when Perrin is chasing Faile down without actually doing anything of consequence for 2000 pages.
>>25153331Last year I tried to make an attempt to go through the whole series again, and I got to I think either book 9 or 10 before I put them down. It's either the intro or one of the early chapters of 9 or 10 that really made me go "Alright, fuck this"
>>25153333Is the slog really that bad? Like how bad are we talking? I want to finish the series, but I can't read 2000 pages of literal garbage.
>>25153329And yeah, I mean, I can sympathize. I've written before, and I've noticed myself drifting into the same thing, where I spell out all a character's motivations and thinking just so people know what's going on (although the feedback I got was to do just the opposite: that it's often better to leave things unsaid, or trust the reader to make some jumps). But for Jordan it just go so bad for me, it actually made me realize I don't want to write like that.
>>25153333It genuinely does pick up again right after the point you dropped it.
>>25153338It gets bad. I think once the point comes that you hit the slog, though, it's actually worth pushing through to finish the series at least once. Just do it, or you'll always wonder otherwise. But afterwards, the slog might prevent you from picking it up and reading it again.
>>25153339Yeah, it didn't help that I started out being self-conscious about my characterization (I always thought it was my biggest weakness), so that self-consciousness combined with editor feedback drove me to overcorrect. I think Jordan is an odd case because he tends to just repeat the same stuff, whereas someone like Frank Herbert, also given to long passages of introspection, will tend to explore new lines of thought. I do think a lot of the problem goes back to habits, like I said. When you keep repeating a phrase or idea, you have to consciously suppress that phrase or idea when writing to get at something new--but that suppression becomes an extra burden to manage, and we only have so much bandwidth to manage it. You see this with GRRM as well, where he keeps repeating introspective lines until they become distractingly repetitive in later books. "You know nothing, Jon Snow," etc.
>>25153338It's a horrid slog and there's no way the page count justifies the read. I quit this series when the guy was still alive. The ending had to be made by Slopperson I mean come the fuck on.
>>25153362Just as a sanity check: Wheel of Time: 11,898 pagesvsASOIAF published main series: 4,244Belgariad + prequels: 3,209 pagesShannara original trilogy: 1,769LOTR + Hobbit: 1,387Riftwar Saga: 1322= 11,931 pagesNow mind you I wouldn't even recommend reading ASOIAF as it looks like a giant waste of time. In fact I think most fantasy in general just has a license to dick you around because the target audience is 15 and has limitless time, no taste and poor executive functions as far as valuing one's time.
>>25153379Another way to look at it; 12000/300=40. So you could read 40 of the best books in the world averaging 300 pages, instead of one shitty fantasy series. It's fascinating anyone could even contemplate reading the fucking thing, it's like if there's an 80 hour long movie and people say the first 5 hours and some after hour 60 are worth seeing. You'd offer to put them down for wasting their time with something that retarded, yet you're going to invest far more time into this shit.
>>25153382The difference would be that better literature requires you to read attentively whereas with slop you can just breeze through. I'm not really defending modern fantasy length here, but I do think it's different in this regard. I read WoT in high school when I had plenty of time to fuck around with something like that, and even then I stopped once I got to the "slog" parts. I'd never actually recommend someone start the series.
>>25153394>I'd never actually recommend someone start the series.That being said it does have some very good moments. Or at least I thought they were when I was a teenager. But is it worth it for that? No.
I did not like his Conan books
>>25153453Really? They made him a huge hit.
>>25151724If you don't have an issue with unseasoned food, sure.
>>25155609Uhh what is that supposed to mean?
>>25155621It's the most bland and generic fantasy out there. Boring, dull, cliche and predictable are all adjectives that characterize that series.
>>25155609people who require seasoning on their food don't know how to cook.
>>25151883>enabling effect of delayed gratification and used intense repetition to ground the reader's understanding of the world in the world and therefore created a sense of time passing slowly by, which also serves to accentuate the explosive action sequencesYou just described Frieren: beyond journey's end
>>25157242shut the fuck up faggot
>>25153379I have Magician and The Sword of Shannara. I'm sure I'll like them but not enough to read the rest of the books.
>>25155694No one is cooking here, we are eating. And unseasoned food sucks. So your analogie is stupid and you're a retard.
>>25157653That's another problem with fantasy, if you're not going to read it all, there's seldom a reason to read an opening book. The narratives do not reach any satisfying conclusion, and it's more than just being trilogies (or far, far more), because there are plenty of trilogies in other genres that provide each installment with some sense of conclusion. Perhaps it's all that "world building" that they use as a crutch, so they can cry about there just not being enough pages. Something like Harry Potter (at least the first half of them) is at least structured so each book has served a complete story of its own while also building on the overall narrative. I'm not saying that they're the height of fantasy writing, rather that the bar is so low even children's books can do it. Yet fantasy by and large does not.
>>25157242Kek
>>25151724I feel like that great hunt book does sort of have that adventure sort of world of warcraft but there was also all this theology stuff there and I also feel like each of these books just starts over again but I’ve only read 3 or 4 so far
>>25151724Just finished book 2 on audiobook. Honestly some of the most fun I've had. Checked out the Amazon show and I would like to commit self defense on everyone who was involved in making it.
>>25151724you'll really enjoy the show then
>>25151724Its too bad that like 4 out of 6(?) characters are unreadable levels of uninteresting. I couldnt stand reading Perrin or any female POV dropped it at book 4.
>>25161384Why is that afro'd gentleman on the left possessed of a rather unfortunate countenance?
>>25151724books 7-10 killed this series
>>25161522black men don't like to smile when photographed
>>25161852half the people in that picture aren't smiling
>>25161522because he's in a shit show
>>25153379are we comparing books of the same size or are you comparing hard covers with trade paperbacks?
