I genuinely do not "get" it. If it's a warning about youth gangs, why does it end with such a mocking tone? If it's a warning about a police state, why is the only victim of it a sociopath?
>>25153599I don't know. No one has ever told me the answers to those questions. Also I haven't read the book.So in total humble honesty, I tell you - I don't know.I hope that helps you.
>>25153599And how did this person come to be a sociopath in a youth gang?
>>25153599stop reading stories like they're pamphlets or road signs. you know artists work hard on chipping away at those worlds and characters. this one even has its own slang. and all people are to it are boring boors.
>>25153599books dont need to make sense lil bro, most of them don't people just pretend they do to sound smart.
>>25153599The author's wife got raped so he cranked out that book in like a few weeks as some kind of therapy. Also this >>25153661
>>25153671>so he cranked out that book in like a few weeksis such a feat possible for high quality literary fiction?
>>25153688Maybe but I wouldn't call Clockwork litfic, it's dystopian sci-fi
>>25153669Hey you should kill yourself tbqh
>>25153617huh?
>>25153599I always laugh that the movie was about free will and when stanley saw kids mirroring his mkultra creation he decided to pull all copies in the uk
can we star calling zoomer/alpha slang nadsat as well?
>>25153688>high quality literary fictionHey now, it’s a great book and all, but i wouldn’t quite agree it’s deserving of those superlatives.
>>25153669Let me recount an old /lit/ maxim. Maybe anime and video games are more your speed.
>>25154561by order of the clockwork fuckin oranges
>>25153661
>>25154648Kek, limeys are quick to violence regardless of whether they watched the movie or not though I’m sure it provided impetus. I should know, I am one.
i wish more books invented new ways of speaking and novel phrasing. what are some other novels that do it? I think it must be very difficult to do intellectually and it really marks the author as high iq when i encounter it. on the other hand a lot of scifi / fantasy books jam in the novel words and try to use them as vehicles for describing how their society is different than ours in a way that is only thought through on the surface level and it really turns me off when i see that. maybe its a fine line to walk
>>25154673Riddley Walker
>>25153599It's about growing up. Everyone tries to force Alex to grow up, and it doesn't work. In fact, they go so far into trying it that they do more harm than good, and in the end he isn't reformed, just more resentful.Then he sees his old buddies are doing way better than he is and this gang shit gets kinda old, so he decides to grow up on his own. It's a "you can't make someone receive help" kind of story. You can't make a kid grow up, he has to want to.
>>25153599It's not about neither of those. It's about free will and the extremes of government not intervening and intervening too much in it. >>25154561The book is also about free will. There is an entire part explaining the title of the book and its relation to God and free will.
>>25154745yes and the part about free will and god is stated by the chaplain in the movie. I just think it's hilarious how stanley didn't factor in that people will emulate whatever they think is cool, including the violence in his film. both the book and film have ludovico add a chemical to have someone stop a doing something, and kubrick removed his visual chemical to do the same kek.
>>25154813>stop a doing somethingfuck
>>25154648it was removed by stanley only, not the government. though you could say by side effect of the clockwork orange copycats.
>>25153599It's about human nature and how it can't be controlled. They tried to make Alex into a clockwork orangutan, thinking that they could turn him into an upstanding member of society, an automaton, with prison and brainwashing. But it didn't work. The only thing that reformed Alex was Alex himself.
>>25153599Because he wrote it to get his true passion projects off the ground
am I retarded, who exactly was Ludovico?
>>25159263Not sure the context, but perhaps Ludwig van Beethoven?
>>25159304Anon you HAVE read the book right...
>>25159305Nta but I saw the movie like 20 years ago, and there was no one in that called Ludovico!
>>25159330Kubrick is a fucking hack
>>25153599I think he was trying to say the government is LE BAD for trying to influence young people to be good because they'll just magically grow up and stop being pieces of shit anyway (lol), which is better than basically being artificially forced to be good. Not sure though, I didn't like the book that much and last read it in 2016. Whatever edition I read had a preface by the author where he seethes about how the Kubrick movie mogged him.
>>25159305Yeah, like 20 years ago. But maybe you're still reading young adult literature like this or Harry Potter. Sorry if I offended you.
>>25159332I hate movies anyway. Unless it’s Click.
>this book has to be a warning about SOMETHING!
>>25159346You’ve just given me a little idea for a story. I will write it as a warning, about something, not something specific, but by definition and the meaning of the word itself, something.
>>25159348Uh sis you've been beaten to the punchhttps://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/blit.htm
>>25153614I'm not OP but thanks.The point is that the "treatment" was inhumane even for an awful person.
WELL! Welll well well well well well! If it isn't little Alex!
>>25153599The only victim *by far* is a sociopath. Ludovico technique like many methods of control we experience nowadays is implemented to ensure security. It is supposed to target criminals, but it could be used against general populace.
>>25159383DUDE erm, did you ever notice how the two uniforms are numbered 665 and 667, IMPLYING that Alex, who is between them, is the devil? Oh my science, I'm going to need to slam another IPA.
>>25159464This post doesn't seem genuine AT ALL
>>25159464BRAVO KUBRICK
>>25159464>67
>>25153599I think the moral ambiguity is the point?These two opposite ends of the law are supposed to be absurdly drastic. If the violence and Ludovico technique both come from a place of dehumanization then a lack of empathy creates a world of extremes.
>>25159340You're OK
>>25153599You're not intelligent enough to understand. Think about it instead of asking for someone to tell you what it means.
>>25153599It's not a warning about anything.This book is just a rather elaborate cope.In the original ending Alex turns over a new life and decides to be an upstanding adult. It seems to have a rather simplistic message of "youths do bad stuff, the government does bad stuff, but then everybody grows up and it all works out in the end and all that violence and oppression is just water under the bridge da end!".Then later they changed the ending to be pessimistic and realistic which it is but it's just a superficial meaningless change as that was never the point of the book. It's just the original ending was so stupid they had to change it. They could only change the ending so easily because the themes were so shallow and malleable in the first place.At the end of the day I see this book as a perfect example of a sensationalist piece with minimal depth or value.
>>25159950>second ending is realistic>but it's superficial and meaninglessthat makes it all the more meaningful.
The best part of the book is the nadsat language and I encourage everyone to adopt it
>>25154654ohnono
>>25159376That's retarded.
>>25154561Good thing too. You just know those brits would of gone full clockwork orange with it. They're the type. You know what I mean.
>>25162770All it takes is making something as simple as questioning the government illegal and presto, you're a clockfruit.
>>25153599I thought it was about growing up and how you cant force someone to change they have to want to change of their own volition
>>25154654Isn't the metamorphosis very plainly an allegory about growing into a failure piece of shit disappointment? I read that book after a decade of being a junkie loser and it kind of helped change my life forever
>>25154654Can someone just skip to the end and batter this prick?
