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>>25157076

>>25157076
No? The "good guys" BECAME the bad guys.

>>25157076
There aren't really any good guys in this though.
Also Bakker lost his mind so the final series is never going to be written.

>>25157322
Too busy posting about how "great" he is in every single /sffg/ thread ever made.

>>25157076
There are no good guys in that story.

>>25157323
Do you really think that's him? Is it really Bakker behind all the Bakkerposting on this board, the posts that compare him to Wolfe and Tolkien?

>>25157559
>Wolfe
You mean Herbert?

>>25157559
What else would he be doing? He's definitely not writing the No-God!

>>25157570
But why would he waste time self-promoting on a slow-moving subdivision of an anime image board? Surely he's got a Twitter account with at least a few thousand followers that he could be tooting his own horn on instead?

>>25157583
Have you ever even read his books? The guy is CLEARLY severely fucking mentally ill.

>>25157596
>The guy is CLEARLY severely fucking mentally ill.
No, not really. Is is actually quite ingenious.

>>25157601
It's full of rape and guro and worst of all, cuck fetishism. He's mentally ill.

>>25157076
Loved the prince of nothing series, but still haven't read the second half.

>>25157608
The Unholy Consult went extinct. The Dunyain took over for them and has raised the No-God using Kelhus' offspring as an offering.

There. I saved you hours of reading for the Rian Johnson tier twist.

>>25157601
I agree. However, I’ve become aware that some mid-wits cannot handle the series because it reflects too much of their own insecurities. First, there’s the prose, which is very solid. But then the themes strike so deeply that they utterly overwhelm weak minds. If you hear someone criticizing the series in an unfair and non constructive manner, know that they probably haven’t actually read it.

>>25157607
You sound resentful.

>>25157624
Listen, Bakkerfaggot.. you've already destroyed /sffg/

>>25157616
speedreader

>>25157754
He asked the GPT.

>>25157754
>>25157779
I got sick and tired of every novel being filler dogshit and got bored around the end of The Judging Eye and just googled the ending.

I get that the consorts master plan was to "save" everyone from hell by stopping life from happening in the first place but that was kellhaus plan even? to rule hell?

I pray every single day that Bakkerspammer gets gutted alive and fed his own shit-filled intestines.

Truth shines brothers.

>>25157076
There aren't really any good or bad guys. There's only power and dominion over souls.

>>25158402
>There aren't really any good or bad guys. There's only power and dominion over souls

This is very much a bad guy thing to say.

>>25158422
I'm talking about the books.

>>25157624
I mean no work should have cuckoldry in it that shit is worse than anything.

>>25159155
Are you that insecure?

>>25159251
the purpose of the entire gays on thrones series is revealed in the last book where george martins mary sue character tortures an effigy of the reader, a man who spent a lot of time in the north capital, turning him into a eunuch and using magic to keep him reading, then he takes sansa, the cute girl from the beginning of the series, and george martins mary sue character says
> you have watched sansa since she was a little girl, now you will watch her become a woman
>>25159251
i just dont read cuck bullshit

>>25159251
it's cringe brother

>>25159155
>No work should have things that I fear will happen to me
Ok snowflake.

>>25159358
>reads about a character being castrated and immediately projects himself onto that character
anon, I...

your fetishes are showing
>thing that rarely happens irl happens all the time in pervert slopwriters stories
this unrealism is the #1 problem with these degenerates putting it in everything, like Whyte woman and nonwhite male in commercials
Nothing ever reflects realism, but one shouldn't expect more from a nuatheist

>>25159913
as the reader, youre expected to have an affinity for the north, who are the good guys and the main characters. youre supposed to respect daddys honor and big brothers honor and cry at the horror of the red wedding and everything else. youre supposed to feel sick that the lannister married your sister. and youre supposed to think ok ill take over a castle too - only to have your real sister explain to you why it doesnt work like that, or, rather, it only works like that when the genius george martin says it does. the purpose of all those walls of text is to flesh out the character of sansa to make her rape meaningful for the viewer. when george martin proves that he has never had the slightest curiosity about weapons and warfare even to the level of playing dungeons and dragons, thats a further imposition on the viewer, forcing the viewer to recognize that he is paying attention to incoherent whaargarbl

>>25159977
>Whyte woman and nonwhite male
white women hate white men and absolutely refuse to carry white children. if they need a walking dildo they can get a nonwhite to buy infinity drugs in exchange, but white men have this toxic attitude that white women should be happy to be a partner instead of a prostitute

>>25157076
Whoever wins is good, for the winners determine the terms and framing of the event in retrospect.

>>25158095
To act as a prophet from Man to God and get them to finally become aware of the No-God among other related goals. Not all his plans work out exactly how he wants and his main weakness like with all Dunyain (except Crabbicus???) is his spirit hence succumbing to Ajokli (maybe). The god(s) do finally see the No-god through Mimara so he at least succeeds in that respect

If you count the times he uses the phrase "not just X but Y" you'll never want to read the books again

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>>25159977
>>thing that rarely happens irl happens all the time in pervert slopwriters stories

>>25159977
You are incredibly insecure. I know by reading this post that you have a small dick.

>>25159977
>thing that rarely happens irl
Does he know?

>>25160252
>>25159985
>>25160269
fetishists

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>>25157559

>>25160607
>In today's electronically-balkanized..
Oh my kek, what a turbo-autistc FAGGOT. LMAO.

>>25160217
Why does Kellhus show up at the end, and if it's a hologram why would the Judging Eye see the NG?

Never made sense to me.

>>25160565
Epic comeback my dude.

Please explain to us how it feels to endorse every single thing that you happen to read.

>>25161173
Kellhus at the end is a hologram generated by the Consult to cover up the No-God sarcophagus "booting up" which is why Akka think Kellhus has lost his mark because he "looks" clean. All the sorcerors and warriors are struck in adulation and awe and so dont have the presence of mind to strike the sarcophagus while its vulnerable. My impression (though its ambiguous in the text) is that the God is able to see through the hologram and see the sarcophagus and hence the true No God beneath while everybody else can only see the surface appearance of the hologram.

I liked that he created awesome giga rape demons and then there was only two of them and one died and the other was a retard.
Fuck the philosophy bullshit I want to know what sort of wacky adventures they got up to while flying the Ark around the cosmos, liquefying alien peasants and raping their way across the stars

>>25162875
I didnt think it was some hologram just everyone lost in delusion.

>>25157799
You unironically think that Bakker has ANY filler in his works. LMFAO there is ZERO filler in Bakker.(not even one single WORD.) What you think is filler is actually just details your mind is too small to grasp the greater function of,

>>25158402
In the actual setting this is literally not true. But I do get what you mean.

>>25160239
He literally averages like 1-3 uses of that per book... What a hack!

The entire Sorweel plotline is filler. No amount of pathetic mental gymnastics you attempt will make it have any relevance to the overall plot whatsoever

>>25163201
Well it would be everybody sharing the same specific delusion of seeing Kellhus and listening to him speak the same words. Can be interpreted lots of ways but the following is suggestive, "The Most Holy Aspect-Emperor fell as a mote through immobile air, seemed to flicker or waver for some otherworldly light." Then when the sarcophagus finally powers up "The Upright Horn groans with cataclysmic power", Kellhus switches from his faith platitudes to speaking like the No God as the illusion is no longer needed

>>25163522
Despite the Nonmen being native to Earwa I always find it puzzling to understand what they actually are. Bakker gives enough clues that humans are evolved animals in his world that have evolved and changed but the Nonmen seem very alien and weird. Are there nonmen "apes" somewhere that share common ancestry with them and not men and which are living alongside human "apes"?

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>>25163589
Two important things:
1. Eärwa (and the Nonmen by proxy) is still the only place in the known universe where Magic was found.
2. This leads me to believe that the Nonmen race is probably a creation or direct descendant of a Ciphrang that somehow escaped from the Outside.

Either that or they were somehow planted by another ancient alien civilization (which I find to be very unlikely at this point). In either case, I don't believe that they're Native to Eärwa.

>>25163522
>Plotfag
Can we stop with this shit already?

>>25160607
based, someone do this for video game "lore" next lmao

>>25162875
This narrative makes no sense. Everywhere else in the text the Judging Eye sees true. The Judging Eye opens on the "hologram" Kellhus and sees the No God the whole time. This suggests it is the No God.

Also, why the hell would the Consult need a distraction. The men and being crushed. The only reason they are free is because the Sranc ran away, and even then they haven't even started to make it into the Ark itself. The armies of men are already losing.

>>25163573
I figure it's supposed to be the No God perhaps, although it makes no sense if it remains little Kel. However, if it is a "prosthesis for Ark" it could be the Ark talking. I've even considered that it could be Kellhus. He could have possessed his son at the end to get into the NG, laying his soul over his (the second decapitant being a red herring). Not the Bakker takes time to point out on several occasions, including when the NG actually shows up at the end, to point out that the chores are missing. That would at least also explain why Kellhus even bothered with the whole ordeal when if the plan was just to bring his son there he could have done that from the begining.

It also occured to me that maybe dragging his army into absolute damnation and then lifting their hopes up to the limit only to smash them is all part of his plan.

Or at least, something is going on there. Clearly he goes out of his way to bring the insertant to the Consult at precisely the moment he is attacking.

>>25164370
Actually, the missing chorea in the sarcophagus are pointed out so many times that I assume it has to have something to do with whatever the ending is supposed to be. I'm just not sure what.

Die, bakkerspammer.

>>25159978
>the purpose of all those walls of text is to flesh out the character of sansa to make her rape meaningful for the viewer.
You're just proving you haven't read the books.

The Scylvendi are just Mongols. Shit ain't that deep buddy.

Sagging your pants and wearing your hat backwards is degenerate. It offends the good people in this time like no other. I am pretty certain /lit/ is filled with leftist mongroids hired by the US military who were raised that way.
>>25158402
Where does your soul go when you are on a video game?

>>25164533
>The Scylvendi are just Mongols
This is not true.

>>25164760
>Where does your soul go when you are on a video game?
In the book or real life? Because video games are soulless.

>>25157076
FINISH YOUR FUCKING SERIES BAKKER THIS IS NOT A SATISFACTORY ENDING I WASTED SEVERAL HUNDRED HOURS ON THKS SHIT YOU FUCKING KEK NECROSODOMIST

>>25164895
Ah yes, they're also fanatics of a death god that worship war and violence.

They're fucking mongols with le fantasy tweest

>>25164954
No, not really. The Scylvendi aren't Asian.

>>25164968
Of course they're not asian? They don't come from asia, they come from scylvendi or whatever the fuck

>>25164370
Kellhus' plans shift and change as he goes and he is also going more insane towards the end as he approaches Golgoterrath. Im pretty sure there is something explicit in the text when he discovers the TekneNuke and surmises at that point that the Dunyain have taken over the Consult and then thinks to himself he wouldn't have needed the Great Ordeal since hes facing the Dunsult not the Consult.

Kelmonas is never part of his plans because he doesn't see anything he is doing or understand that his own life has been saved twice from the White Luck by him. Kelmonas is taken up into the Room by a skin spy not by Kellhus and Kellhus is genuinely surprised to see him there. He goes back for Esmenet due to her being an element of his weakness and a crack in his otherwise perfect Dunyain poise

The Dunsult have prepared the sarcophagus for Kellhus which is why it has no chorae since he is a sorceror and so a chorae studded sarcophagus may kill him or affect the resumption

The reason that the Dunsult needed a hologram to distract everyone while the No God Sarcophagus is spooling up is because it has no chorae and is still vulnerable to sorcerors. Once it powers up, it engages the whirlwind and picks up the hundreds and hundreds of chorae from the battle and so is then protected by a dynamic chorae whirlwind

Kellhus is dead and a pillar of salt in the Golden Room while all this is happening outside. Kelmonas has no control or personality left once the No God is activated and the Hologram Kellhus is a Dunsult sock puppet

My impression is that Kellhus is actually way more out of control than he seems and Ajoklis growing influence is seriously hampering his judgment. Kellhus is also completely unable to see through Sorweels Yatwer glamour and has no idea Kelmonas' place in any of the proceedings.

>>25165044
They're not Asian in that theyre not the Xiuhianni which are the Asian analogue amongst the 5 tribes of men. The Scylvendi are 1 of the 5 tribes and are supposed to be like white "barbarians" with closest analogue being more like the Scythians than the Mongols

>>25165064
I'm not sure sure if what's happening to him is insanity or if it can be attributed to something else. He gets a little bit "too human" for my taste by the end and I still cannot understand way. One of my theories is that he's somehow trying to either tap into Cishaurim Metaphysics or just acknowledges the veracity of the solitary good for some reason.

Again, I use use insanity and weakness interchangeably here, but I am not so sure if Esmi is the sole reason for the rescue here.

I do agree that Kellhus is probably not able to see the No God / Kelmomas influence, but I'm 100% sure he's aware of its existence, even if invisible. The other theory I have is that all of this was somehow planned and that he's probably going to start some sort of crusade on the Outside now. This wouldn't unreasonable. There's also the Ajokli's rage factor. Something's off there and jumping straight to Cnaiür seems more like him feeling betrayed by Kellhus than anything else.

>>25165131
I think the humanity showing at the end is a combination of Ajokli steadily eroding his already weak spirit and the fact he has stretched his Dunyain abilities to their absolute maximum. The Dunyain appear perfect on the small and medium scale (capturing the Holy War) but when plans are stretched to Apocalyptic levels the cracks and imperfections begin to show even in a Dunyain as exemplary as Kellhus

Despite Bakker always referring to the spiritual weakness of the Dunyain, I definitely think Kellhus must have known he is spiritually weak and come up with contingencies to help himself when his plans inevitably begin to fall apart

Like you say, Ajokli cannot find him at the end so clearly his soul has been hidden, either in a decapitant head or otherwise hidden maybe in the outside itself

>>25165148
It's a shame with didn't get a single Kellhus PoV in the Aspect Emperor, but I think it was for the best. I can't imagine anyone capable of writing a character like him after the time skip. Even for Bakker.

>>25165155
I can imagine similar problems would have arisen to the ones Erikson had when he made early attempts to write Rake POV chapters and then decided to abandon the attempt

I think one of the most interesting threads is how the books themselves are a vehicle for Bakker to trick the reader into assuming Kellhus' perfection and control and then especially as the Aspect Emperor books proceed, mistakes and doubt and then his ultimate apparent failure all manifest.

All that said I think Kellhus had a plan and is still somehow on track, though I doubt we will ever find any of this out in the No God trilogy since it won't appear

More like the good guys won't.

>>25165064
Why would the Judging Eye see a hologram as the No God?

Also, you're just taking what Kellhus says to Esme at face value. This seems unwarranted. He just happens to cross a continent to bring the NG to the right place at the right time, because of "my weakness," and then also doesn't kill his son when he had every reason to, but instead leaves him in a setting where he surely knows that Esme will free him.

If that's supposed to be coincidences it is just bad writing.

>Kellhus is also completely unable to see through Sorweels Yatwer glamour and has no idea Kelmonas' place in any of the proceedings

Absolutely no evidence for this from his POV. Same with the other assertions. Twice he just so happens to bring the right person to disrupt the WLW to the right place at the right time to defeat them. Again, sloppy coincidences if it's all an accident.

This explanation relies on: "everything Kellhus says to other characters is true and honest," which we know is highly unlikely to be true.

No one can win. That's the message.

>>25165064
This is the most surface level reading of the ending. No doubt, the ending is so filled with reveals and random clues or false clues that no theory can really stand on its own. But the "everything is Ajokli + big coincidences + Kellhus going retarded" line that seems popular in the fandom, while the most obvious, seems also most obviously wrong.

The problem is that the second series isn't as good so people haven't avoided it the same way, and it isn't well edited so it doesn't have the same little clues. Whereas the first series is full of little clues on rereads for stuff like Moengus intentionally sabotaging the Cisharum and their defense against the Holy War (e.g., their stupid wading into battle in the first clash, where the Scarlet Spires reflect on how incredibly stupid it was but the talk themselves into a simple conclusion," or more obviously, that Akka feels them see him on his way into Carascand (Antioch) and intentionally ignore him.

The clues in the second series are all over the place and underdeveloped.

The heron spear

Gotta read the thousand fold thought again or something like that

>>25166293
>>25166396

As to first point, my impression is that there is a tekne hologram covering up the spooling up No-God sarcophagus.

Therefore everyone else sees the surface appearance and the open Judging Eye is able to perceive the true reality underneath the appearance, being the literal sarcophagus moving 1:1 with Tekne hologram.

All the latter points laid out are the common interpretation as you say and I'm not necessarily wed to it.

Certainly the fact that Kellhus has literally been into the Outside and applied his insane intellect to demonology would imply he maybe has the gods eye view of events and nothing is a coincidence at all. He also correctly understands that Dunyain spiritual weakness is why his father is so limited in the Psukhe.

Theories that Ajokli is Kellhus all along abound etc etc

Since you dont seem to like the common "Kellhus fucked it all up" view I would be interested to hear your read on it all, I would lean a lot more to Kellhus having figured a lot more out than he is credited for commonly but its hard to say how far he has gone especially in light of Bakkers explicit mentions of his spiritual weakness

>>25166443
What of it?

>>25157076
Pretty sure it's no over yet.

>>25166490
Do you have a theory on his halos though?

>>25168036
For me I like the idea that the Halos are not what they seem. They look divine but it might be the opposite. That infact he is so fucking corrupt that its literally visable to the naked eye.

>>25166490
I only recall Bakker making the point about spiritual weakness in an AMA, and he had explicitly mislead people in those before to prevent spoilers.

I don't think there is any answer to all the clues and coincidences, and unfortunately the last books aren't edited very tightly so who knows what is intentional.

>>25168036
Interestingly, Serwa seems to see the halos on the hand of the skin spy who takes Kellhus' form. But the narrative could be read as her just seeing what she expects.

Pretty sure he sees the halos on his own hands at the end of TTT.

I think it's unclear if this is collective delusion, or some sort of mark of the collective belief in him. But it starts before he learns sorcery and Serwa starts to see them way back in the first book before he had any influence or has even done much evil in comparison to many of the characters.

>>25168036
>>25168051
>>25168708
The halos are certainly very interesting, their early manifestation could be an Outside touching the regular world thing?

Since Kellhus would always have made his pact with Ajokli / visited the Outside and gathered all of his followers from the timeless "Outside" view then the effects of his power in the Outside can manifest "earlier" in the linear time of the real world.

I think if anyone can be a candidate to suffer from seeing the haloes as a delusion it would Serwe with the skin spy, especially since they're apparently washed out in strong light and when hes not doing big Kellhus things so she could more easily convince herself they are vaguely there

I think they are definitely permanently "there" later on because his children make a special point to mention that Kellhus chose the fabrics for the inside of his tent to intentionally make the haloes contrast more and show up stronger

Probably probably

>>25168708
Serwe was probably schizophrenic, or something akin to that. There are just too many unexplained things about her whole story. I also still do not understand how the skinspy could mimic kellhus face without having it removed.

>>25168748
It's also never explained how he tears out his own heart, which even skeptics see and cannot explain. And him actually tearing out Serwa's heart just seems a little too easy to discover and I think he is standing away from her and shirtless at that point.

I mean, his prophecies and various acts like that are enough to convince him, even a Dûnyain, that he is truly chosen, enough to make him merc his dad and betray his order.

The Scarlet Spires think the Cishaurim are weaker, but then why is the Consult most scared of them and then the Cishaurim seem to be BTFOing them hard until Kellhus shows up with the Meta-Gnosis. Also, the last one seems to hold up pretty well 1v1ing Kellhus all things considered.

>>25169727
Also, it seems implied that Titgra in the False Sun is using Cishaurim magic and yet he is the greatest sorcerer outside maybe Seswatha, unafraid of soloing and Inchoroi, (before Kellhus and Serwa of course) and yet why would he do that if it's the weakest sort of magic?

>>25169727
Moengus is the answer here, probably. There is no way the Consult isn't aware of him at this point. He kidnaps skin spies and other Consult agents. They pretty much have no choice but to engage here.

>>25169737
>>25169752
>>25169727
Consult are scared of the Cishaurim because they don't know it's Moengus letting them take out Skin Spies
The Scarlet Spires think they're weaker because Schoolmen are arrogant and Cishaurim isn't necessarily greater or lesser on it's own, just different. Cishaurim school of thought is incompatible with the Logos, however, while the Mandate school is exponentially stronger when paired with Dunyain minds

That said, is it ever explained why Cishaurim don't have The Mark? Either i'm forgetting or I missed it

>>25164898
The Bible != World of warcraft

>>25169776
So, the Cishaurim and the Fanim in general worship the Solitary God and recognize the Hundred as demonic entities of limitless hunger. It is revealed in the second series that the Cishaurim have actually been to the Outside and know this for a fact. That alone is interesting because we know Kellhus also manages to go to the Outside, and that he does sorcery without the Mark before the final battle (Titgra in the False Sun also does this).

So, while the Cishaurim seem to be particularly hated by the Hundred, they nonetheless don't have the mark of damnation. Notably, though they see their fate, they don't go over to the Consult. Likewise, Titigra simply dismisses the Inverse Fire as a goad and isn't troubled by it when confronted (although he doesn't actually see it either).

Kellhus ties their magic to passion, which might be partially correct, but I think it might not be the whole story.

>>25169737
>>25169727
Isn't it implied that Moe only has control of a faction within the Cishaurim and is warring with them subtly?

There are some hints that he is clearing a path for Kellhus. After the first big battle, the Scarlet Spires remark on how the Cishaurim standing alone in the open was almost suicidal. They cannot explain it, but then they do explain it as overconfidence. But notably, this section follows a point about how all men search for comforting delusions for what they cannot explain. It might just as well be sabatoge.

This is more obvious later when Akka feels the Cishaurim watching him as he rejoins the besieged Holy War, but don't decide to attack him and just let him through. By that point, one of the has already died to bring Kellhus a message from his father too.

It's possible the Dûnyain also underestimate the Psûkhe early on because they don't understand it and cannot master it?

Interestingly, it also isn't totally clear who activates the Wathi doll that saves Akka. The most obvious answer is that the one word he says while in the circle is to activate the doll, although I think the circle is supposed to block sorcery. That seems most obvious because he doesn't reflect on how the circle gets opened, although he also never reflects on having organized his own escape either.

At any rate, the outside options here are that Kellhus sent it out (he could activate it) or that a Cishaurim sleeper agent did so that Akka could get free and give Kellhus the Gnosis. Afterall, the Thousandfold Thought is supposed to contain contingency after contingency and range widely (the Thousand Temples are controlled from the top after all).

>>25169819
Oh, and the Judging Eye approved when the Survivor rails the ashes of the the Non-Man King and recognizes the Zero God (Solitary God), so it's possible the Cishaurim lack the mark of Damnation simply because the Fanim are ultimately less wrong about the divine (they are certainly less wrong about the Gods and the Outside).

Wait, the guy who rapes and cucks his closest disciples and mind rapes them, and manipulates them into a massive cannibal, necrophile murder rape orgy (thus consigning them to infinite, unending torment) isn't the good guy?

>>25170619
You mean Proyas? No, he's a traitor.

>>25170628
>How long have you served Golgotterath

(The moment I realized he was the worse option BTW)

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>>25170628
>>25170637
I felt bad for him, all he wanted was to serve God faithfully

>>25171009
Proyas is probably the most tragic character in the entire series. And it's also probably one of the very few characters with whom you could actually engage in a modern setting.