>>25157128
It doesn't matter.

Yeah I think they're specifically referring to LLMs used to generate the text. You could probably use an LLM as as much as an idea factory to plan your story for you and still qualify as "AI free" as long as its all your own prose.

>>25157130
It matters to a lot of people.

>>25157138
It doesn't matter how many people it matters to.

>>25157128
if you care that much you can just turn off the ai responses and just read the first links that come up or use wikipedia or something

>>25157146
By last count about 40% of Wikipedia articles contain at least some AI generated content

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>>25157128
Ai infects everything just like microplastics. For there is no telling how much Ai is in our writing, nor how much plastic is in our body. In conclusion, we need to get rid of everything and start again with Ai as first principle, since it is inevitable.

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>>25157172
>whoops

>>25157132
Splitting hairs makes the distinction pointless.

>>25157145
>It doesn't matter.
<It matters.
>That doesn't matter, either.
Genius.

>>25157128
As if a human is not a worse version of an LLM. What the fuck you gonna do that an LLM doesn't? Write in a unique style? Your style is infected by all the people you've read. Might as well use an LLM.

>>25158999
But one has a soul

>>25159011
Irrelevant. Most people have meager, wretched souls, and those who do not cannot express it properly. It is only the 0.01% of writers who can say they are better than an LLM, and even then, they would be better with proper use of AI.

>>25159048
>they would be better with proper use of AI

Sure, if we ignore all the studies showing cognitive decline in even casual use of AI

>>25159064
We should also stop using calculators because we won't be able to do mental addition as fast.

>>25159048
Even the dumbest, most pathetic human is worth more than a computer. I'm becoming a biosupremacist at this point, rather have a Dune future with Mentats than cede any power or responsibility to AI.

>>25159100
You’re almost there! Yes, it’s sorta like that, but now imagine instead of asking the calculator for simple math, you’re asking it to fully think for you. You’re asking it to make plans and decisions for you.

Do you think those cognitive abilities are on the same level of importance as the ability to do square roots in your head?

>>25157138
They don't matter.

>>25159100
Why are people so unwilling to criticize any aspect of technology? To the point where even the most mild critique of technological progress gets you called a Luddite. Writing and reading has many, many advantages but yes, ancient philosophers were partially correct that writing led to less memorization, people can no longer remember epic poetry, or recite long stories or rhetorical speeches in front of a crowd. Most people work say that the advantages of reading and writing are worth it, but the point is that you're not allowed to even think about these things critically. Even things such as calculators have some negatives, as students are no longer taught how to do things like square roots or trigonometry in their head. Typewriters and computers replaced writing and notes, which has some advantages (easier to categorize and search, data doesn't theoretically degrade over time, can be copied easier) but it also has disadvantages. Like evidence showing that writing things down increases memory, and the fact that computers often use proprietary hardware and software that the user doesn't have full control over, and that they're dependent on the electrical grid or possibly the Internet to work. You can argue that computers' oros outweigh their cons. In many case I would agree that the pros outweigh the cons! But why don't people want to even ask these questions. Technology on our society has become a religion which cannot be questioned, look at how governments and schools are embracing AI wholeheartedly with no evidence that it will actually improve things.

>>25159491
What piece of technology are you posting this from, hypocrite?

>>25159491
>Why are people so unwilling to criticize any aspect of technology?
That's not been the case at all. Criticism of AI in writing is the norm.
>Writing and reading has many, many advantages but yes, ancient philosophers were partially correct that writing led to less memorization, people can no longer remember epic poetry, or recite long stories or rhetorical speeches in front of a crowd.
The benefits vastly outweigh the rote memorization of epic poetry.
>you're not allowed to even think about these things critically.
Nobody is stopping you or anyone else from doing thinking "about these things critically", they're just not going to consider your views as reasonable, because they're not.
>Even things such as calculators have some negatives, as students are no longer taught how to do things like square roots or trigonometry in their head.
That's just not true.
>uch as calculators have some negatives, as students are no longer taught how to do things like square roots or trigonometry in their head. Typewriters and computers replaced writing and notes, which has some advantages (easier to categorize and search, data doesn't theoretically degrade over time, can be copied easier) but it also has disadvantages.
Which are again outweighed by the disadvantages.
>writing things down increases memory
Which is it? Writing increases memory, or it decreases memory? Another reason that you might not be taken seriously is that your logic is inconsistent.
>Technology on our society has become a religion which cannot be questioned
Again, absolute nonsense. Rightfully calling you a retard doesn't prevent you from questioning it.

>>25159064
Those studies are almost entirely pseudoscience.

>>25159442
Are you one of those people who spergs out when google's AI quickly drafts a meaningless work email for you

>>25159442
>>25159491
Try to explain the categories of thought that are essential and will be lost due to AI. A computer used to be a human doing maths for engineering projects. He was replaced by the digital computer. Similarly, an AI replaces basic/intermediate/advanced logic and intelligence exercises allowing the creative mastermind to design systems and architectures that deliver true value. How many literary masterpieces can a genius create when he no longer has to sit down and write 500-1000 words per day?

>>25157128
Until there is a unified standard and a body that issues specifications somehow (or unless you include a preface that explains exactly what you used and didn't use), the designation is meaningless, and I will interpret it more as an indication of the writer's political views/cultural circles if I pick up a book like this.

At the end of the day the problem with AI writing isn't necessarily that it's cheap or that it takes away jobs or whatever. If anything I'd rather people didn't get paid for writing because then there would be less pandering AND writers would be forced to hold real jobs and engage with the real world, as opposed to being poor artsy bohemians in Brooklyn with a Bluesky account whose social circle consists of people exactly like them.

The problem is that AI writing is shit. The writing follows the same patterns, it uses very strained metaphors, and sometimes it just doesn't make sense. If the text-generating capabilities ever really improve, then either the problem will go away, or the battle will be fought on completely different lines.

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>>25159540
>Similarly, an AI replaces basic/intermediate/advanced logic and intelligence exercises allowing the creative mastermind to design systems and architectures that deliver true value.

>>25159416
Yeah, but AI is here to stay. Its over.

>>25159509
I always imagine the voice of Malfoy

>>25159562
That’s what they said about DET

>>25159557
> How many literary masterpieces can a genius create when he no longer has to sit down and write 500-1000 words per day?
Well, in the past, doing something like this - delegating actual writing to other people, i.e. ghostwriters - was considered disgraceful and people did not take writers who put their names on ghostwritten books seriously.
But also some time prior to that not being of noble birth and not having inherited a fortune and having to work for money was considered disgraceful. Standards change with the times.
We are in the middle of the change right now. I don't know how it will pan out, but I think in 5-10 years the pace will become less crazy and we will know. I'm personally happy not being on the front lines of this battle, other people will fight it out and then we'll have a new world with different rules and we'll learn to navigate that one too. Until then I hunker down and read my backlog which is years old at this point.

>>25159562
>3D TVs
>Crypto
>NFTs
>Self-driving cars
>VR
Face it, Silicon Valley are out of touch dweebs that don't make useful products that ordinary consumers want to buy. The AI bubble is propped up by government investment and retarded venture capitalists, not the free market.

>>25159506
>If you buy a piece of technology you're not allowed to criticize it!
How does this even make sense? To review a product you actually have to use it and become familiar with it, use some logic for once.

>>25159554
Art was significantly better when you could get a full time job either writing or drawing though. Look at how nostalgic people get over have drawn advertisements and comics from the 19th and 20th century. Little sketches used to be be everywhere, then they were replaced by digital art designed by committee, and now advertising art has become almost entirely replaced by AI. So much beauty and aesthetic value in our world was completely wiped out by the switch to digital art. Hell, look at oold patent drawings, it took amazing skill to draw pictures of inventions, now that's all been replaced by CAD. Every engineering firm used to have a technical artist responsible for is design and patents. Look at 19th century sketches of plants and animals. Writing quality has been severely degraded in a short time in the corporate world, look at Linkedin if you want to see bad things really are right now.

>>25159589
These are some of the more recent failures, yes. There are also successes, which are boring and taken for granted.
Relatively abundant low-performance PC components made it so that you can now take a random office PC that takes less space than a hardcover book and costs less than a high-spec motherboard, put Debian on it, and that can host gigabytes of your own music, movies and books, without any dependence on big platforms like Amazon or Netflix.
Translation ML models make it so that you can get pretty good textual translations of even argot-laden, niche texts if you use state of the art models from big players like Google, but if you're willing to live with more inferior options, Firefox can get you fully on-device translations which are good enough for e.g. a news article. You can now go and read a media publications in a German, Brazilian or Korean source and understand what they're saying.
Phone cameras combined with on-device upscale ML models are now good enough that even someone who doesn't understand photography or want to learn it can get basically pretty shots. Are they pro level - no the compositions are basic, the colors are off, if you zoom in you'll definitely find artifacts, but it still means a lot of people with relatively low standards can self-produce images that give them aesthetic pleasure.
These are just the things I came up with on the spot, I'm sure if I think harder about it I could come up with more.

>>25157128
youre a bot

>>25159611
Yeah, sure, this kind of "functional art" is doomed. It always was, companies were always going to cut the corners on artistry if they could (as you correctly point our, CAD>patent drawings, way before any LLMs).
My point is not about these artists being paid to produce art, but about people whose income derives from art for art's sake. People who get paid by writing fiction or making music. Sure, they can dedicate themselves to that more when they're "pros", but I'm not sure it's valuable, especially with fiction, because again, these people get sucked into the social circle of the writing/publishing world and they start writing books that are made by writers, about writers and for writers.
As an alternative consider David Simon. I'm not even talking about his television work although I liked The Wire. Could he have written Homicide if he didn't spend years on the police beat as a journalist? Or could Le Carre have written Smiley that well if he didn't have the real-world experience of working in intelligence?

>>25159645
>t. self published novel got taken off Amazon for not divulging AI author

>>25157128
If I eat vegetables that have been cultivated with petroleum based fertilizers, does it mean I'm eating gasoline?

>>25159727
Gasoline is a product of petroleum, gasoline isn’t used to make fertilizer.

>>25159581
Two or three versions ago, I told it to write a story, and then told it to rewrite it in the style of Lovecraft and I was floored at the quality. It's even better now. The main difference between it and a ghostwriter is that the LLM has worldclass talent. If you can work with the context and break the structure of the work down properly, you can get new forms.

And I consider that writing has missed a major medium last gen with hyperlinks. The fact that there are no major hyperlinked novels is a testament to just how stale the medium has become. Well, let's be honest, there has not been a good book in decades. So forget the medium, the artform itself is stale.

>>25157128
You'll have to define AI. Is it any machine learning model? Do rules-based "expert systems" count too? Because if yes, your Word document that had spell-checking on also isn't "AI free".

>>25157935
This is by no means a "whoopsie"; on the contrary, we will integrate electronic components into high-performance microcircuits-- circuits immune to Coronal Mass Ejections; and become capable of leveraging the electronic characteristics of humans as well as other resilient biological systems and subsequently deploy them across a myriad of distributed nodes, thereby ensuring their immunity to any form of electronic disturbance.

>>25157128
anti-ai virtue signallers need to be castrated

>>25157128
I've seen an uptick in sheer mediocrity being praised because they're riding this ai hate bandwagon. Utter no talent hacks whose works would be labeled slop pre 2023.

>>25160086
> being praised because they're riding this ai hate bandwago
I agree this happens but I disagree there's an uptick. People compensating for lack of merit with correct ideological posturing is not new. They would have postured as the most puritan commie-hating christians in 1950s America, most devout marxism-leninism scholars in the USSR around same age or most jew-hating nazis in the 1930s Germany or most god-fearing Catholics in the Crusades.

>>25160101
>They would have postured as the most puritan commie-hating christians in 1950s America,
and they would have been forced into the ordeal of pretending to love the spouse and pray in church while taking the children there. its the most horrifying thing to be forced to live like a human being while deep down inside you watch the love youre pretending for social clout build people around you who you

>>25160201
What the actual FUCK are you trying to say? Reads like you had a stroke but somehow ended up hitting your head on the post button as you died.

>>25160597
ESL?

>>25160604
>build people around you who you

>>25157128
Don’t use it to write prose and you’re fine

>>25160744
So outline the novel with AI and asking it for important plot twists and characterizations is okay?

>>25160752
It's all okay. You can just do whatever you want.

>>25160773
No, I mean, if I want the “AI Free” sticker, where is the line drawn? Will I lose the sticker if I use my word processor’s spell check?

>>25160802
Yeah, you can just do whatever you want. The people using "AI detectors" aren't intellectually honest, there's no reason you need to be either.

>>25160817
So what do I do when my work gets revealed to be AI generated and everyone knows I’m a liar?

>>25160820
It can't actually be revealed as "AI generated" and no one can actually know if you're a liar. It's not possible. That's what I mean by they're not intellectually honest. They'll call it "AI generated" because of a vibe or aesthetic preference, or more likely because of the output of another blackbox "AI detector" doing statistical analysis with unknown methods and false positive rates will give a probability that your work is AI generated, which will vary from detector to detector, and some human will have to determine, arbitrarily, what percentage they're willing to tolerate before making an accusation.

>>25160843
We can all tell, Charlie.

>>25160848
You can't, actually.

>>25160856
Honestly, it’s just really sad if you’re so little soul’d that you think we can’t tell. It’s almost like you have a disability.

>>25160904
Ad hominem is not an argument. This is probably news to you.

>>25160922
>you can’t, actually
Is also an ad hom

>>25160926
No, that's a fact.

>>25160930
As is the ensmallment of your soul.

>>25160820
Admit nothing, deny everything, make counteraccusations.

In all seriousness,
> Will I lose the sticker if I use my word processor’s spell check?
some people or organizations that peddle these may actually have standards that you can read and try to adhere to. For example, I randomly picked one on the OP pic
>https://booksbypeople.org/#faq
and it seems like they actually have some kind of system, but aren't willing to divulge the details unless you're in a communication with them (but they also don't work with authors, they work with publishers, so as an author all you can do is work with a publisher that has a relationship with them).

If they don't have anything of the sort and it's just a thing you can put on your book then do whatever you want and draw the line how you want, but I would also not expect this to be taken seriously by anyone.

>>25159540
>How many literary masterpieces can a genius create when he uses le LLM
Zero.

>>25159759
>floored at llm story
lmao. i think youre just 80iq

>>25157128
No, you're not a real writer if you use the internet at all.
YWNBAW

>>25161266
>>25161267
If coping about it makes you feel special, then go ahead. 60% of Moby Dick can be written with ChatGPT.

>>25157128
Books have been AI for a long many years.
They've been mixing them into regular releases using names like Tom Clancy to get people used to formulaic AI books.

>>25157138
those aren't people

>>25157128
Damn niggah, it's just words, copy and paste that shit, put some tape over the where it says ai.

Lol rofl.

>>25157128
What about using something like Google Earth for making a city-roaming novel in the vein of Ulysses or Petersburg?

Pro-AI people are NPCs working for the matrix. If we are the universe's way of experiencing itself, then AI is the universe's way of mummifying itself.
All experience will be quantified and the entropic ancestors will be culled.
The earth will decay but the egregore of the binary will live on in a silent space of the meta-ssd.
Hopes and dreams in carbonite, death and dissection in formaldehyde, the world will be frozen forever. Perfect, idle and dead.

>>25161698
what sort of pseud bullshit poetry is this?
What is a "meta-ssd"? If the earth will decay, so will SSDs, and these lose information recorded on them a few years in without an active charge.
"Carbonite" as some sort of preservative substance is not even real, it was invented by George Lucas for the 5th episode of Star Wars.

>>25161687
That’s no worse than using a paper atlas or travel guide

>>25161698
This is AI generated

>>25157128
Just use it as a reference book, dictionary, or thesaurus.

>>25161983
Still cheating

>>25163838
How is it any different from consulting a paper book, dictionary, or a thesaurus?

>>25157128
1. Google (the most popular search engine in the West) uses AI by default, so no one can honestly critique you for this
2. You're under no obligation to go around telling people about this

You can use AI to gather sources. Just factcheck the AI responses and make sure all the actual writing and protéines development is done by hand.

There's nothing wrong with AI if used correctly.

>>25160752
yeah, that’s called being a ghostwriter and you have to pay people for that
you probably won’t be that interested or motivated in writing the prose for an entire book where you didn’t define the structure or characters

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>he thinks a large language model would be bad at producing fiction