>There are never threads about Joyce anymoreHas the average IQ of /lit/ really fallen so far?
>>25162091Yes.
>>25162091No
>>25162091Maybe
The final word in Ulysses
>>25162133>>25162140
>>25162091Joyce was a fucking drunken hack.
>>25162162Tim Finnegan lived in Walken' StreetA gentleman Irishman mighty odd;He seen a brogue so soft and sweetAnd to rise in the world he carried the hodTim had a sort of a tipplin' wayWith a love of the liquor now he was bornTo help him on with his work each dayHad a "drop of the cray-chur" every mornWhack fol the da O, dance to your partnerWelt the floor, your trotters shake;Wasn't it the truth I told you?Lots of fun at Finnegan's wake!One mornin' Tim felt rather fullHis head felt heavy which made him shake;Fell from a ladder and he burst his skullSo they carried him home his corpse to wakeRolled him up in a nice clean sheetLaid him out upon the bed;A gallon of whiskey at his feetA barrel of porter at his headWhack fol the da O, dance to your partnerWelt the floor, your trotters shake;Wasn't it the truth I told you?Lots of fun at Finnegan's wake!His friends assembled at the wakeAnd Mrs. Finnegan called for lunchFirst they brung in tea and cake;Then pipes, tobacco and whiskey punchBiddy O'Brien began to cry"Such a nice clean corpse, did you ever see?Tim mavournin, why did you die?"Arragh, shut your gob said Paddy McGhee!Whack fol the da O, dance to your partnerWelt the floor, your trotters shake;Wasn't it the truth I told you?Lots of fun at Finnegan's wake!Patty O'Connor took up the job"Ah Biddy," says she, "You're wrong, I'm sure"Biddy gave her a belt in the gobThen left her sprawlin' on the floorThen the war did soon enrageWoman to woman and man to manShillelagh-law was all the rageAnd a row and a ruction soon beganMickey Maloney lowered his headAnd a bottle of whiskey flew at himMissed, and fallin' on the bedThe liquor scattered over Tim!Tim revives! See how he rises!Timothy risin' from the bedSayin', "Whirl your liquor around like blazesThunderin' Jaysus! Do you thunk I'm dead?"Whack fol the da O, dance to your partnerWelt the floor, your trotters shake;Wasn't it the truth I told you?Lots of fun at Finnegan's wake!
>>25162140Paris?
>>25162174yield
>>25162178it's spelled "kneel" and yes you do
>>25162162anime and video games are more your speed
>>25162140Can't spell "Ulysses" without
Don't see how it could fall any lower. Some of these threads are ringing arguments in favor of mass abortion. The stupidity of the majority of opinions here is only outweighed by the confidence in which they're couched.
>>25162170What a fun, silly song. Those Irish fellers sure are an odd bunch aren’t they?
>>25162091radical anti-intellectualism has become (or maybe it always has been) very popular on /lit/. it is very difficult to discuss serious, dense, and allusive novels without having some drooling retard dropping his pants and shitting out something to the effect of "hurf durf this book is ugly duhhhh read lewis and the bible instead" which makes me wonder why these guys even post on this website, considering this is one of the few places on the internet where you can get from discussion of literature to hyper cock vore in maybe like 3 clicks - whence the moralfaggotry?
>>25162186>being this cringe
>>25162520Anon you think too much. Those lewis and the bible dorks are part of the whole. Do you not see that clear as day?
>>25162091There are at least two other Joyce threads in the catalogue.
>>25162525i hear berserk and dark souls are popular with the lanky neckbeards these days, maybe start there
>>25162091all board culture across the site has been watered down by the post-gamergate reddit chuds.
>>25162140love
>>25162566>thinking i am the anon you responded to>buckling down the tism
>>25162578
>>25162607What an unsightly drawing.
>>25162091Everyone fucking swears up and down that Joyce is literally the greatest author of all time and is responsible for the modern novel.Don't fuck with me: was he really THAT good, and should I seriously consider reading him?(P.S. He wrote fart porn to his whore of a wife)
>>25162091I've been reading my way through Dubliners and I've basically posted a new thread every time I finish a story in it. Maybe you guys should post in some of them when I make them.
>>25163153>Joyce is literally the greatest author of all timeit's him, proust, or tolstoy, yeah>responsible for the modern noveljoyce thought this was dostoevsky >was he really THAT goodyes>should I seriously consider reading him?absolutely, yes. read joyce chronologically -- first he's the sober realist of Dubliners, then he's the tentative experimentalist of Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, then he becomes immortal with Ulysses, then he fully transcends all with Finnegans Wake. (you don't have to read the Wake, but if you're serious you have to read the other three.) said without a single trace of irony, the only English-language writer that comes close is Shakespeare>fart pornpart of the fun of Ulysses is how dirty it is
>>25163161what's the last story you read and what are your thoughts on it? or if there's already a thread can you link me to it? fuck it, I'll read the story and participate. haven't read Dubliners in a while but I read The Dead every time it snows
>>25163167Just finished "Counterparts" the other day. It left me kind of in awe at what a miserable bastard Farrington is. Stupid, fat, drunk, bad with money, it's incredible. He's maybe the most miserable character I've encountered in Joyce, including the bunch in Ulysses.
He stepped out with the dog, or the dog stepped him—who could say which tugged which into the morning’s half-made thought. A leash, yes, a thin umbilicus of leather, binding man to beast, beast to man, both to the indifferent pavement slick with yesterday’s rain, or perhaps tomorrow’s memory of it. The dog sniffed. Profoundly. With a seriousness unbecoming of nostrils so damp.“Walk,” he said aloud, to the dog, to himself, to the word itself as it unspooled in his mouth: walk, w—aw—lk, a thing done forward but felt backward, step after step, heel-toe, toe-heel, a metronome of meat.The dog paused. A lamppost. Cathedral of scents. Archivist of a thousand anonymous passersby, each leaving their yellowed signature in drips and declarations. The dog read it as scripture. Nose pressed, reverent. A liturgy of urine.“Come on,” he said, tugging gently, though gently was a fiction; the leash translated will into motion with all the subtlety of gravity. The dog resisted, democratic in its refusal.A pigeon strutted nearby, swollen with civic importance. The dog noticed. Or perhaps the noticing noticed itself within the dog. A tension, a vector. The leash tightened, the man’s arm extended, a geometry of impulse checked by habit. No chase. Not today. The pigeon remained, unimpressed, ambassador of the banal.He thought of breakfast. Eggs, maybe. Or the idea of eggs, round and complete until broken, which was their purpose, their destiny even, to be undone in a pan’s brief eternity. The dog sneezed. A wet punctuation.“Bless you,” he murmured, unsure to whom the blessing adhered. The dog did not acknowledge theology.They turned a corner. Or the corner turned them, presenting a new street like a thought inserted mid-sentence. A woman passed, brisk, her perfume trailing an argument the dog wished to pursue. He held firm. Social contract. Invisible fences of propriety hemming in the animal chorus beneath his ribs.Good dog, he thought, though the dog had done nothing good nor bad, only dog. Labels, he reflected, are leashes for ideas. The dog barked once, sharply, at a passing shadow that may have been nothing more than light reconsidering itself.Midway through the walk, if there is a midway in circles, he felt it: the peculiar awareness of being in a body moving through space, a consciousness strapped to muscle and bone, much as the leash strapped him to the dog. Who walks whom? The question circled like a drain.The dog stopped again. This time, more deliberate. A squat, a posture of existential release. He looked away, granting privacy to an act both intimate and public. The city did not avert its gaze; it absorbed.From his pocket, a bag. Ritual again. Hand sheathed, reaching, retrieving the warm fact of it. Evidence of being. He tied it off, a small, swinging planet of consequence.“Good,” he said, because language demands closure where none exists.
>>25163190They resumed. The sun had climbed, or perhaps the earth had rolled just so, offering up more light like a coin to a beggar. The dog’s tongue lolled, pink semaphore of exertion. He felt a matching fatigue, sympathetic or imposed.Home loomed, though it had never moved. The door awaited its key with patient indifference. The walk concluded, or rather folded into the next act: water bowl filled, leash unhooked, the soft clatter of domesticity reclaiming them both.The dog circled thrice before settling, as if aligning itself with invisible constellations only it could chart. He watched, then sat, then thought of nothing in particular, which is to say, everything without edges.“Tomorrow,” he said, though tomorrow had not asked.The dog slept. Or entered some other narrative where men were walked and lampposts spoke back, and all the smells resolved into a single, comprehensible sentence.Outside, the street continued, indifferent, awaiting the next pair of feet to make meaning where there was only motion.
>>25163193He would have it end there—closure like a lid on a pot—but the mind, ill-lidded thing, bubbled on. Not end but bend, the walk unwalked in sleepwake, dogdream dragging him backward through forward streets, a recursion of paws and thoughts, paw-thought, thought-paw, the leash now a line of script unwriting itself.Riverrun again, but here it is the gutter’s thin silver threading the curb, whispering of rain that was and rain to be, and the dog—O the dog!—sniffscribbling its odyssey in olfactory ogham, nosing out the palimpscent layers of canis-cant and human humdrum. Sniff, snuff, snovel—he could hear it, the sublingual song: quiquok quaquack, a barkburble in no known tongue yet known to all who have ever followed a scent into sense.He dreamed (or was dreamt by the dog?) of streets that curled like question marks, of lampposts that leaned in to confide their pee-storied sagas. “Urbi et orbi,” one seemed to mutter in a dribblelatin, blessing all bladders, while another, more Gaelic in its lean, whispered fáilte-foulty, welcome and warning in one wet syllable.The leash elongated, elastical, linguastic, stretching between ego et canis until the words themselves grew paws and ran. “Walk,” he had said—now it was volk, wölk, velk, a clouding of meanings, peoplewalking him through their inherited phonemes. The dog turned its head (had it two now? doubled in the seeing?), eyes bright with a cognition older than grammar.“Who’s a good—?” he began, but the sentence frayed.“Gudgud, gutgoed, go-daí,” replied the dog—or perhaps the echo of his own voice refracted through the skullcave—each variant a verdict deferred. Goodness unmoored, a bone without a burying.They were not on the street but in the streetness of streets, a plenum of pathways. Pavement palavered beneath them: tapptipp toptop, the percussive patter of feetfeet. A cat (cattus, katze, chat-chat) slipped by in a sibilant aside, tail a question unasked. The dog lunged—O impetus!—and time hiccoughed, temps, tempo, tíom, stuttering its measure.He felt himself divide: walker and watched, lead and led, the ipse and the ipseity of ipse, each mirroring the other in a hall of dogglass. “I am,” he thought, but it came out am I? amí? ami?—friend or being, Frenchfaced or selfsame? The dog sneezed again, a cosmic punctuation: achoo, achu, axiom!A chorus rose from the drains, a polyglot gurgle: eau, agua, uisce, Wasser, waters talking over themselves, telling of underways and underwhiles. The dog listened, head cocked, as if translating the subterranes into a code of tailswishes. Three for yes, two for no, one for the ineffable perhaps.
>>25163205He bent (did he bend or was he bent?) to touch the ground, felt it pulse, terra, tierra, tír, a mothertongue murmuring in strata. Fingers met grit, and grit gave him back a genealogy of footsteps, each grain a gone-one’s going. He was them; they were the dog; the dog was the drift of all their driftings.“Home,” he tried again, but it unraveled: domus, casa, teach, Heim, each house a mouth pronouncing him. The door appeared/disappeared, a threshold that thresholded itself. Key or quay? He turned it, or it turned him, a lock unlocking the locker.Inside-outside collapsed like a paper cathedral. The bowl filled itself with aquaqua, doubled water for doubled thirsts. The leash unhooked into a question mark, dangling, dangling, asking.The dog circled—once, twice, thrice—then more, a spiral script inscribing its bed, bedabad, until the motion wrote a word no lexicon would house. He watched the writing of it, felt it write him in return.“Tomorrow,” he had said, but now it was to-morrow, tumorrow, dhá-máireach, a time that times itself, morrowing the now. The dog slept or spoke in sleeptalk: somnus, sueño, codladh, each breath a small translation of being into becoming.And he—he sat, or was set, a piece on the board of the room, listening to the silence say too much: hushush, shhí, silencio. The walk went on in the unwalk, a loop unloosed, a book without back or before, only the everafter of a man and his dog dogging the man into meaning, meaning into dog, until the sentence, tired of itself, curled up and—sleep.
>>25162091‘fraid so
Definitely not stately nor plumpMy midnights are humid with fruit.I don't say yes to everything but almost
OP just killed a booktok thread
>>25162091Post """those""' letters that he wrote to his wife, Nora. You know the ones.NOW.
>>25162520They're reacting to all the subversive bullshit promoted everywhere. It's the correct reaction to subversive bullshit.
>>25163482Yes, but the solution is not to become an unsophisticated retard yourself.What bugs me the most is how aggressive they are about it. Like you'll see somebody post a thread with a picture of a book or an author and say something really rude and violent, like "pretentious worthless slop" or something like that. Usually something even worse, and I can feel the anger behind it. Is this a Zoomer thing? This has really only started in the last few years. What's with this trend of dismissing things so angrily? This is the kind of language that would get me to punch someone if they used it in a real-life conversation.
>>25163246op is not a faggot for once, then
>>25163153every normie knows about the fart letters, how new are you to think we don't already know this
>>25163511They’re angry at themselves for being too retarded to enjoy anything other than some short Dostoevsky story. They also like to proudly exclaim “lol I don’t even know” as if it’s something cool. I think they do wish to be a little less retarded, so they cope by acting in that conceited, aggressive manner.Cute image by the way.
>>25162091Because he fucking sucks ?I don't know if you have to be Irish or British to appreciate him but he is just boring.I'm not even trying to ragebait, I was so happy when I bought Dubliners and Portrait and the disappointment after I read them was unimaginable.I'm pretty sure he gets so much praise because he is on the anglo-sphere and you overrate your bums then proceed to smell your own farts.Speaking of farts, Joyce comes to mind!Fucking talentless prick. I would rather read only women books from now on than ever read a single line of Joyce again.
schizo melty
>>25163708I found Dubliners boring too. Portrait was just okay, but part 3 was a highlight.Ulysses is a masterpiece.
>>25163708Some recs:BerserkSpidermanMario cartOne pieceExpedition 33These are things I’m certain will resonate with you more, anon.
>>25163718I like both Joyce and Berserk/E33
>>25163722I’ve experienced neither but I just assume they’re more suited to a retard like that above anon, not to say they’re bad, just accessible, and flashy.
>>25163727Joyce is very flashy too. Cyclops, Sirens and Circe are my favourite chapters.
I remember my first read of Ulysses and I was mistaken a couple times early on, first with Stephen in Proteus thinking about visiting family members, and then with Bloom during Hades, while riding in the carriage, he imagines Dignam falling out of the casket. I thought these were both actually happening.
>>25163733For me, it’s Circe and Ithaca, followed then by Nausicaa and Scylla and Charybdis.
>>25163715>Ulysses is a masterpieceI haven't read this and I honestly ask, why should I ? I don't doubt it's good but his smaller works that I mentioned really don't make you wanna get into something bigger.Like , if you read Dostoyevsky's Notes from the Underground it does make you wanna get into C&P and then his best works like Brothers and (my favourite) Demons.I didn't have that with Joyce. And while I do agree that portrait is much much better than Dubliners, it was just mediocre. >>25163718>I did the thing heeehee
>>25163743>DostoevskyI see… well, I don’t know what to tell you, stick with him then. I know you, you’re the one who made that thread on Portrait and Dubliners the other week.
>>25163741>Scylla and CharybdisAnother great one. I found Ithaca a slog though.>>25163743Because Ulysses is very different. It's not like Dostoevsky where all his books are more or less similar, it's like Melville and the drastic jump from Typee to Moby-Dick and Pierre. Or James, Washingston Square and Golden Bowl read very different.And that's on top of Ulysses constantly shifting even within the narrative. Take the following two passages and try to tell me that it's anything like Dubliners/Portrait>Now let us speak of that fellowship that was there to the intent to be drunken an they might. There was a sort of scholars along either side the board, that is to wit, Dixon yclept junior of saint Mary Merciable’s with other his fellows Lynch and Madden, scholars of medicine, and the franklin that hight Lenehan and one from Alba Longa, one Crotthers, and young Stephen that had mien of a frere that was at head of the board and Costello that men clepen Punch Costello all long of a mastery of him erewhile gested (and of all them, reserved young Stephen, he was the most drunken that demanded still of more mead) and beside the meek sir Leopold. But on young Malachi they waited for that he promised to have come and such as intended to no goodness said how he had broke his avow. And sir Leopold sat with them for he bore fast friendship to sir Simon and to this his son young Stephen and for that his languor becalmed him there after longest wanderings insomuch as they feasted him for that time in the honourablest manner. Ruth red him, love led on with will to wander, loth to leave. >The delegation, present in full force, consisted of Commendatore Bacibaci Beninobenone (the semiparalysed doyen of the party who had to be assisted to his seat by the aid of a powerful steam crane), Monsieur Pierrepaul Petitépatant, the Grandjoker Vladinmire Pokethankertscheff, the Archjoker Leopold Rudolph von Schwanzenbad-Hodenthaler, Countess Marha Virága Kisászony Putrápesthi, Hiram Y. Bomboost, Count Athanatos Karamelopulos, Ali Baba Backsheesh Rahat Lokum Effendi, Señor Hidalgo Caballero Don Pecadillo y Palabras y Paternoster de la Malora de la Malaria, Hokopoko Harakiri, Hi Hung Chang, Olaf Kobberkeddelsen, Mynheer Trik van Trumps, Pan Poleaxe Paddyrisky, Goosepond Prhklstr Kratchinabritchisitch, Borus Hupinkoff, Herr Hurhausdirektorpresident Hans Chuechli-Steuerli, Nationalgymnasiummuseumsanatoriumandsuspensoriumsordinaryprivatdocentgeneralhistoryspecialprofessordoctor Kriegfried Ueberallgemein.
>>25163751And another very different passage, just for good measure:NOSEY FLYNN: Give us a tune, Bloom. One of the old sweet songs.BLOOM: (With rollicking humour.)I vowed that I never would leave her,She turned out a cruel deceiver.With my tooraloom tooraloom tooraloom tooraloom.HOPPY HOLOHAN: Good old Bloom! There’s nobody like him after all.PADDY LEONARD: Stage Irishman!BLOOM: What railway opera is like a tramline in Gibraltar? The Rows of Casteele.(Laughter.)LENEHAN: Plagiarist! Down with Bloom!THE VEILED SIBYL: (Enthusiastically.) I’m a Bloomite and I glory in it. I believe in him in spite of all. I’d give my life for him, the funniest man on earth.BLOOM: (Winks at the bystanders.) I bet she’s a bonny lassie.THEODORE PUREFOY: (In fishingcap and oilskin jacket.) He employs a mechanical device to frustrate the sacred ends of nature.THE VEILED SIBYL: (Stabs herself.) My hero god! (She dies.)(Many most attractive and enthusiastic women also commit suicide by stabbing, drowning, drinking prussic acid, aconite, arsenic, opening their veins, refusing food, casting themselves under steamrollers, from the top of Nelson’s Pillar, into the great vat of Guinness’s brewery, asphyxiating themselves by placing their heads in gasovens, hanging themselves in stylish garters, leaping from windows of different storeys.)ALEXANDER J DOWIE: (Violently.) Fellowchristians and antiBloomites, the man called Bloom is from the roots of hell, a disgrace to christian men. A fiendish libertine from his earliest years this stinking goat of Mendes gave precocious signs of infantile debauchery, recalling the cities of the plain, with a dissolute granddam. This vile hypocrite, bronzed with infamy, is the white bull mentioned in the Apocalypse. A worshipper of the Scarlet Woman, intrigue is the very breath of his nostrils. The stake faggots and the caldron of boiling oil are for him. Caliban!THE MOB: Lynch him! Roast him! He’s as bad as Parnell was. Mr Fox!(Mother Grogan throws her boot at Bloom. Several shopkeepers from upper and lower Dorset street throw objects of little or no commercial value, hambones, condensed milk tins, unsaleable cabbage, stale bread, sheep’s tails, odd pieces of fat.)
>>25163751>Ithaca>a slogAnon, it had the most beautiful, poignant passages and atmosphere I’ve ever read, and this is in spite (or it could be because of) of its cold, mathematical style employed in form of a catachism!
>>25163757>its cold, mathematical style employed in form of a catachism!That's what filtered me. It has some brilliant passages, like:>What in water did Bloom, waterlover, drawer of water, watercarrier, returning to the range, admire?>Its universality: its democratic equality and constancy to its nature in seeking its own level: its vastness in the ocean of Mercator’s projection: its unplumbed profundity in the Sundam trench of the Pacific exceeding 8000 fathoms: the restlessness of its waves and surface particles visiting in turn all points of its seaboard: the independence of its units: the variability of states of sea: its hydrostatic quiescence in calm: its hydrokinetic turgidity in neap and spring tides: its subsidence after devastation: its sterility in the circumpolar icecaps, arctic and antarctic: its climatic and commercial significance: its preponderance of 3 to 1 over the dry land of the globe: its indisputable hegemony extending in square leagues over all the region below the subequatorial tropic of Capricorn: the multisecular stability of its primeval basin: its luteofulvous bed: its capacity to dissolve and hold in solution all soluble substances including millions of tons of the most precious metals: its slow erosions of peninsulas and islands, its persistent formation of homothetic islands, peninsulas and downwardtending promontories: its alluvial deposits: its weight and volume and density: its imperturbability in lagoons and highland tarns: its gradation of colours in the torrid and temperate and frigid zones: its vehicular ramifications in continental lakecontained streams and confluent oceanflowing rivers with their tributaries and transoceanic currents, gulfstream, north and south equatorial courses: its violence in seaquakes, waterspouts, Artesian wells, eruptions, torrents, eddies, freshets, spates, groundswells, watersheds, waterpartings, geysers, cataracts, whirlpools, maelstroms, inundations, deluges, cloudbursts: its vast circumterrestrial ahorizontal curve: its secrecy in springs and latent humidity, revealed by rhabdomantic or hygrometric instruments and exemplified by the well by the hole in the wall at Ashtown gate, saturation of air, distillation of dew: the simplicity of its composition, two constituent parts of hydrogen with one constituent part of oxygen: its healing virtues: its buoyancy in the waters of the Dead Sea: its persevering penetrativeness in runnels, gullies, inadequate dams, leaks on shipboard: its properties for cleansing, quenching thirst and fire, nourishing vegetation: its infallibility as paradigm and paragon: its metamorphoses as vapour, mist, cloud, rain, sleet, snow, hail [...] etc. (3000 characters post limit)But it doesn't make the rest of the chapter any less of a slog to read. I might change my mind on the inevitable reread though.
>>25163766The pedantry is both funny and charming, you learn some little details about Bloom too, his specific interests, hopes, dreams, also he’s far thinner than I’d imagined.
taste in media has nothing to do with intelligence btw
>>25163773You can’t enjoy the weather channel with sub 120 IQ.
>>25163775you can also enjoy nigger rap with 80 IQ and 150 IQ at the same time
Wandering Rocks is underrated
>>25163696it's called puberty hormones
>>25163708nice spacing, fag
>>25163743>dosto>reddit spacingTells you all you need to know really, doesn’t it?
>He doesn't consider Ithaca one of the most sublime, majestic chapters of the book
>>25163806 Compile the budget for 16 June 1904. Debit £. s. d. 1 Pork kidney 0—0—3 1 Copy Freeman’s Journal 0—0—1 1 Bath and Gratification 0—1—6 Tramfare 0—0—1 1 In Memoriam Patrick Dignam 0—5—0 2 Banbury cakes 0—0—1 1 Lunch 0—0—7 1 Renewal fee for book 0—1—0 1 Packet Notepaper and Envelopes 0—0—2 1 Dinner and Gratification 0—2—0 1 Postal Order and Stamp 0—2—8 Tramfare 0—0—1 1 Pig’s Foot 0—0—4 1 Sheep’s Trotter 0—0—3 1 Cake Fry’s Plain Chocolate 0—0—1 1 Square Soda Bread 0—0—4 1 Coffee and Bun 0—0—4 Loan (Stephen Dedalus) refunded 1—7—0 BALANCE 0—16—6 ————— 2—19—3 Credit £. s. d. Cash in hand 0—4—9 Commission recd. Freeman’s Journal 1—7—6 Loan (Stephen Dedalus) 1—7—0 ————— 2—19—3Fucken sublime
>>25163511It is zoomers. t. zoomer
>>25163811It’s purposely wrong if I recall correctly, I’ll go back some time and calculate it.
To OP’s inquiry, what was anon’s response?That of the affirmative.
>>25162520Newfag from 2017 here. This place is actually smarter than it used to be which does not say much. Dont know if this board/website was ever worth coming to for rational discussion. Half the people you think are retarded are pretending to be because le epic troll. They got rid of poster counter for a reason. On every board ever since i can remember always the same trolls bumping the sane agendas to top of the catalogue. Propaganda is famoously dissiminated here and what a perfect place for it. Also look into cult of kek.
>>25163817Friend, there are so many erroneous statements made in this post I don’t care to call them all out.
>>25162520Also if you are not terminally online here you may not be aware the posts your seeing are constant bait/board arguments that occur every other day with the exact same insights for 10 years.
>>25163817kill yourself for being so god damn retarded you deep congo jungle vine swinging african disappointment of a larping nigger, you are reddit
>>25163824A well thought out rebuttal to be expected from such intellectuals lol good day sir
>>25163830
Circe and Nausicaa to a lesser extent were real trips.
>>25163872 (He knots the lace. Bella places her foot on the floor. Bloom raises his head. Her heavy face, her eyes strike him in midbrow. His eyes grow dull, darker and pouched, his nose thickens.)BLOOM: (Mumbles.) Awaiting your further orders we remain, gentlemen,...BELLO: (With a hard basilisk stare, in a baritone voice.) Hound of dishonour!BLOOM: (Infatuated.) Empress!BELLO: (His heavy cheekchops sagging.) Adorer of the adulterous rump!BLOOM: (Plaintively.) Hugeness!BELLO: Dungdevourer!BLOOM: (With sinews semiflexed.) Magmagnificence!BELLO: Down! (He taps her on the shoulder with his fan.) Incline feet forward! Slide left foot one pace back! You will fall. You are falling. On the hands down!BLOOM: (Her eyes upturned in the sign of admiration, closing, yaps.) Truffles!(With a piercing epileptic cry she sinks on all fours, grunting, snuffling, rooting at his feet: then lies, shamming dead, with eyes shut tight, trembling eyelids, bowed upon the ground in the attitude of most excellent master.)BELLO: (With bobbed hair, purple gills, fat moustache rings round his shaven mouth, in mountaineer’s puttees, green silverbuttoned coat, sport skirt and alpine hat with moorcock’s feather, his hands stuck deep in his breeches pockets, places his heel on her neck and grinds it in.) Footstool! Feel my entire weight. Bow, bondslave, before the throne of your despot’s glorious heels so glistening in their proud erectness.BLOOM: (Enthralled, bleats.) I promise never to disobey.
>>25163877Remember the bit where Bello sticks his entire arm up Bloom’s cunt? Yep.
can you imagine how boring it would be for two people who have read Ulysses to talk about it in person
How does one go about reading Finnegans Wake? Do I read it in the same way I’d read a poem? Do I try to pin down the ongoings and psychology? Do I simply just go with the flow?
>>25163817>newfag>having opinions
>>25163893>get the Skeleton Key and go balls-deep into every single word>go with the flow and read it as you would read Jabberwock>get drunk and recite it out loud with your thickest impression of an Irish accentJust pick the one that appeals to you the most
>>25163893become fluent in 50 languages and get just as many ph.ds, then you'll be ready for the first few chapters
>>25163896The skeleton key it is, I’m autistic and have a lot of free time currently.
>>25163893psychology is the worst discipline to use when going into joyce, he isn't dostoyevsky or james
>>25163898https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8kFqiv8VwwHere's Joyce reading FW, it might help you hear its internal rhythm
>>25163904I think I mean of the writer himself, in relation to his style. But I neglected to mention the most important aspect to me, which is of course the linguistic experimentation.>>25163905Cheers
>>25163756> (Violently.) Fellowchristians and antiBloomites, the man called Bloom is from the roots of hell, a disgrace to christian men. A fiendish libertine from his earliest years this stinking goat of Mendes gave precocious signs of infantile debauchery, recalling the cities of the plain, with a dissolute granddam. This vile hypocrite, bronzed with infamy, is the white bull mentioned in the Apocalypse. A worshipper of the Scarlet Woman, intrigue is the very breath of his nostrils. The stake faggots and the caldron of boiling oil are for him. Caliban!Wish I could write like this.
There’s been Dublinersslop on the catalogue for well over a week.
>>25163743>his smaller works that I mentioned really don't make you wanna get into something bigger.speak for yourself. i started with portrait and thought it was awesome and was extremely interested in reading his other stuff.
>>25163771Him being thin made sense to me considering his utter lack of an appetite in Lestrygonians.
>>25164090True, however I boiled that down to that same feeling I have, which is, people look fucking disgusting (like Laestrygonians of course) when they eat which is why Bloom chose something lighter. I hate restaurants.
Probably only 1-2% of the posters here even understand him. They're too busy reading Hail Mary or some shit like that
>>25164121Who understands him then? Who’s posted here? And are you one of them?
>>25164123I didn't understand anything, even why I posted what I did. I should just shut tf up
>>25164145>I should just shut tf upYou can say whatever you like anon, that’s the beauty of possessing the mind of a rational being. Also, /lit/ itself from what I understand is pretty unmoderated, so you really can just discuss anything.
>>25162091He looks fucking suave as shit in this photograph.
>>25164117We're in the same boat
>>25164149I guess I could but nothing I say will be warranted or needed. You guys got this covered, all 1-2% of you. I'm just a guy that sometimes reads Dragonlance but also Moby Dick. I could tell you I understand Paradise Lost but not how. I have omnivorous reading habits but I'll be damned if it ever helped me. I would not wish that on any of you. You are constructing your own doom and I might stand in the way of your doom but not in the construction. It's inchoate and bitter and hard for me to explain. I made up a word and I'm proud of it but it'll die with me. It is wreckitude. I'm sure it sounds stupid to some of you. I'm sorry for bothering you guys.
>>25164178Your self esteem is ostensibly pretty low, and for the record, I think you’re well written enough I think to actually explain the “how” in why you enjoy PL. I think maybe you could put that writing and elucidation into practice, there doesn’t have to be a real reason beyond your own amusement for doing so. And we’re all in the same boat, we all are complicit in each other’s doom and construction, on a wide scale anyway. What does wreckitude mean? Or is it something you’d prefer to keep to yourself?
>>25164189It's a state of being, as in, your whole life has been a series of calamities, one after another, and it's wrecking your mentality, your emotions and even your health. Your health could be a wreckitude, for example. And thank you for your kind words. I'm old and my options are severely limited. Limited from my own doing. I have no one to blame but myself. I will die pauper and even still, be a burden on my family. That's why I sort of wish to just disappear. I'm a burden on just about everyone I know. Even my dead body will be a burden. Southern poverty is killing families and no one gives a fuck. I could scream it night and day (and I have) and nothing will ever happen. The majority of the US thinks we're dumb and having sex with our cousins. It's really beautiful down here during the spring and fall, with all the deciduous trees blooming and changing. Lots of water areas too. The wildlife can be amazing. I really love all the muted colors that N. American wildlife possess, the browns, blacks, whites and oranges are really pretty. It's so pretty that it causes a painful twinge in my heart to think someday, I'll escape it and it, me. It feels like a heart disease with how painful it is. I once wished death on people because of how shitty they can be but I stopped doing that because they are a person just like me and I'm not better then them and to think such things is so fucking arrogant and I hate arrogance. I hate myself
>>25164243sir this is an Ithaca appreciation thread
>>25164249>Alone, what did Bloom feel?>The cold of interstellar space, thousands of degrees below freezing point or the absolute zero of Fahrenheit, Centigrade or Réaumur: the incipient intimations of proximate dawn.I know that feel, Leopold.
>>25164249Yeah, sorry for being an ineffable faggot
>mfw Poldy has more spunk
>“The air of the room chilled his shoulders. He stretched himself cautiously along under the sheets and lay down beside his wife. One by one, they were all becoming shades. Better pass boldly into that other world, in the full glory of some passion, than fade and wither dismally with age. He thought of how she who lay beside him had locked in her heart for so many years that image of her lover's eyes when he had told her that he did not wish to live.>Generous tears filled Gabriel's eyes. He had never felt like that himself towards any woman, but he knew that such a feeling must be love. The tears gathered more thickly in his eyes and in the partial darkness he imagined he saw the form of a young man standing under a dripping tree. Other forms were near. His soul had approached that region where dwell the vast hosts of the dead. He was conscious of, but could not apprehend, their wayward and flickering existence. His own identity was fading out into a grey impalpable world: the solid world itself, which these dead had one time reared and lived in, was dissolving and dwindling.>A few light taps upon the pane made him turn to the window. It had begun to snow again. He watched sleepily the flakes, silver and dark, falling obliquely against the lamplight. The time had come for him to set out on his journey westward. Yes, the newspapers were right: snow was general all over Ireland. It was falling on every part of the dark central plain, on the treeless hills, falling softly upon the Bog of Allen and, farther westward, softly falling into the dark mutinous Shannon waves. It was falling, too, upon every part of the lonely churchyard on the hill where Michael Furey lay buried. It lay thickly drifted on the crooked crosses and headstones, on the spears of the little gate, on the barren thorns. His soul swooned slowly as he heard the snow falling faintly through the universe and faintly falling, like the descent of their last end, upon all the living and the dead.”The Dead by James Joyce.
>>25162133>t. Molly Bloom
>>25166453I always imagined she was fingering herself (not to Poldy) but to her Gibraltar boy.
I read Dublinners and I thought it was good but I don't understand why Joyce is seen as possibly the best writer ever. Is there something specific I should pay closer attention to?
>>25166473See >>25163751
>>25166473Dubliners is good, but each of his works differ greatly from each other. He employs techniques that would influence many great writers onwards and Ulysses often reads like a summation of English language literature, with each chapter being different in style, based on the theme of said chapter. Finnegans Wake feels like the logical conclusion to literature itself, it’s pure language experimentation. Just look into the etymology of all the “thunderwords” he uses in it
>>25166473
>>25166504Faulkner had maybe a cooler moustache than Joyce.
>>25166510Probably
Is it still worth it to read Joyce in translation (into German)? I bought 4 of his books, because each was just 2 Euros. I haven't dived too deep into him, but I heard that his strong point is prose.
Joyce’s work has aged the worst of any modernist. His was a worldview that was proven to be so wrongheaded that his work has no relevance to us. It would be like reading a textbook on alchemy.
>>25166599Complete bullshit.
>>25162170>brogue>the hodStop making up words! Stop making up words this instant!
>>25166603Joyce has an optimism towards modernity that seems almost completely opposed to the attitudes of all his major contemporaries. Time has since vindicated them and proven Joyce entirely wrong.
>>25166599>His was a worldview that was proven to be so wrongheaded that his work has no relevance to us.Can you articulate what, specifically, is wrongheaded about Joyce's worldview?
>>25166613Where are you getting this, and how can optimistic or pessimism, which are just feelings, be proven wrong? There will always be things to be appropriately optimistic about. Sorry he's not a grumbling chud like Eliot or schizo fascist like Pound.
I wish Bloom was around to learn about modern astronomy. Stuff like black holes, quasars, exoplanets. He'd love it.
>>25166632He’d hate that he could never get published these days though, “his” prose is pretentious but charming, if we’re to take Eumaeus as the part of Bloom that wants to impress Stephen with intellectual prose.
>>25166628>There will always be things to be appropriately optimistic about. Like?>Sorry he's not a grumbling chud like Eliot or schizo fascist like Pound.Me too or his work would have stayed relevant.
>>25166473dubliners is very restrained/understated compared to the rest of Joyce's work. he's not trying to bash you over the head with his genius like he is in ulysses. you should reread The Dead and try to stay alert to the complex web of symbolism that Joyce is toying with -- start by noticing when snow appears in the novella
>>25163896The first time I read Finnegans Wake was out loud in the back of a car on a huge road trip with some uni friends. Did a bad irish accent and it actually illuminated some of the linguistic puns. We had a German with us too so he could chime in occasionally.
>>25166599you're not doing a good job of fitting in
>>25163893watch thishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8kFqiv8Vwwand read it in the same cadenceignore everyone telling you to consult a guide, pseud faggot shitit's art, not a video game you have to "solve" or "understand"
>>25166755his voice gives me the ick. i'm not sure if i can be a joyce fan anymore...
>>25166755Philosophy is art too, you’re not required to understand that?
>>25166779How is philosophy art?
>>25163898Don't read the skeleton key. Joseph Campbell never read Vico's New Science.
>>25166779no it absolutely is not, retard. are medicine and astrophysics also art? go back now.
>>25166599*Wyndham Lewis
>>25163813Yeah, it's missing the money Bloom gave Bella in Circe
>>25166799>>25166805U-uh… well… y-you see it’s uh…
>>25166817Artful is the philosopher, and expressive is he!Painting with words the mimesis of reality to be!Thus spoke Zarathustra
>>25166821cool, very nicenow do beyond good/evil and the genealogy
>>25166799>>25166805Post war philosophy does try to capture the artistic. Deleuze argued that the point of philosophy was that creating new concepts was somewhat of an artistic endeavour, or at least adjacent to art in the sense that it relies on creativity. I don’t really agree however that is IS art.
>>25166755>it's art, not a video game you have to "solve" or "understand"As true as that may be, I think it reinforces your experience with it if you do understand it. It’s like listening to a fugue, enjoying it for what it is, but once you understand counterpoint and the work that goes into it, it elevates the piece, for me at least.
>>25166843deleuze didn't mean that creating new concepts was an artistic enterprise at all. if he ever used the word "art" in that context he meant in a craftsmanship sense. this is equivocation.
>>25166918Sure, that’s why I said “at least adjacent to it in the sense that it relies on creativity”. I think he’s trying to make a point of it being similar in craft. But as he says himself >A work of art is not an instrument of communication. A work of art has nothing to do with communication. A work of art does not contain the least bit of information. In contrast, in contrast, there is a fundamental affinity between a work of art and an act of resistance.I feel as though philosophers post war wanted to be seen as more similar to artists than scientists.Maybe I’m guilty of sophistry in the first half of my post though HAHA.
>>25166643>Like?Your life, the life of people you know, and the possibilities that great art and aesthetic concepts create. We live in a modern world in which even an illiterate, mopey teenager like yourself can access all of the great works of human expression on a moment's notice.
>>25166762Getting an ick is straight up female behavior
>>25162520How is Ulysses uniquely "serious"?
>>25167009I think he was making a joke
>>25167055Oh. My bad, if so
>>25167019Seriously sexy he means
>>25166599>t. butthurt jungian
>>25166949if by philosophers you mean a few frenchies then sureunfortunately for your argument, there's far more to philosophy than existentialism and post-structualism
the dusttree of cocaine snorted with hairy skinpink nostril
>>25167081>I don’t really agree however that it IS art.It’s true, I don’t. Just trying to make an argument for that anon who called it art. Why? I don’t know, I felt like it.I only like epistemology
I doubt there's a single comment above or below mine worth reading, so I will clarify matters: Nobody cares about Ireland. Ireland is BORING. You can be the greatest writer in the world and you will still fail to make Ireland anything other than boring. Potatoes, alcoholism, rain...nobody fucking cares.
>>25167101You should try crying about it
>>25167101I’m quite interesting and I’m like half Irish.
>>25167103Are you living there? Fuck no, because it's boring.
>>25167110No, I’ve been there though, a few times; the countryside in particular, which is very quaint and also peaceful.
>>25167115Notice you didn't say interesting.
>>25167122I live in a city, so anything out of my spatial bubble is pretty interesting in some way. Enniscorthy is an interesting little town architecturally, at least to me, I like that sort of thing.
>>25167127Just ignore that stupid bitch. He's jealous and it's easy to see
>>25167101Their wilderness is sublime and their history is interesting
>>25167101you will never be smart and you will never win arguments on the internet
>>25167095gross. ick. icky-icky gross.
>>25162091average IQ of 4chan has fallen, and by extension the internet in general. way more bots and third worlders than ever. there are people with smart phones and Internet but no access to clean water
>>25166977And that I do but it‘s more of a consolation than a purpose if I‘m pursuing them in isolation because a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the population has the brain or willpower to engage in art seriously. 10% of the access with a meaningful place in public life would do more to keep us all from drowning in ugliness.
>>25167252Your usage of the term “ick” gives me the ick
>>25167302You getting the ick from people using stupid buzzwords gives me the ick
>>25167302what's your favorite ulysses chapter? telemICKus?
>>25167313You pointing that out gives me the ick. Next you’ll start mansplaining.
>>25167332Missed opportunity to say NausICKaa
Reading Ulysses without stopping every sentence: gibberish. Reading Ulysses having to stop every three words for Le Heckin aLLuSiOn: "fun". Intellectuals should be burned at the stake.
>>25167338Double-missed opportunity to say ICKthaca
I should be reading Ulysses, and fabricating my case for and against. I have read 200 pages so far—not a third; and have been amused, stimulated, charmed, interested, by the first two or three chapters—to the end of the cemetery scene; and then puzzled, bored, irritated and disillusioned by a queasy undergraduate scratching his pimples. Tom, great Tom, thinks this is on a par with War and Peace! An illiterate, underbred book, it seems to me; the book of a self-taught working man, and we all know how distressing they are, how egotistic, insistent, raw, striking, and ultimately nauseating. When one can have the cooked flesh, why have the raw? But I think if you are anaemic, as Tom is, there is glory in blood. Being fairly normal myself I am soon ready for the classics again. I may revise this later. I do not compromise my critical sagacity. I plant a stick in the ground to mark page 200.
>>25167339/v/ is that way
>>25167339damn imagine being fat and retarded. couldn't be me
>>25167347>>25167353iNeLuctABlE mODaLLityY get it??!?! riverrun.. FUCK!!! insane!
>>25162091Joyce is just generic slop about generic people living generic lives, devoid of anything interesting to say except>bro, like, life is... le beautiful. Yes!Very woman-coded
>>25167408trvke
>>25167353He's right. Intellectuals are just more sophisticated hedonists
>>25167406mad and insecure kek
>>25166628It’s not about politics, but rather the attitude the authors had towards modernity. Kafka and Hemingway were leftists whose works have aged better than Joyce’s. >>25167077I dislike psychoanalysis generally, but I can at least appreciate Freud as an historical figure. I hate Jung.
>>25167415Ulysses wasn't written primarily for intellectuals in mind and anyone who thinks otherwise is a gullible retard being mind-puppeted by intellectuals. Finnegans Wake on the other hand....
>>25166977>Your life, the life of people you know, and the possibilities that great art and aesthetic concepts create.Nta, but like what?
>>25167406dont you have a 9 hour long dark souls lore essay to unpause
>>25167428Oh ok, I guess it isn't sophisticated then.>being mind-puppeted by intellectuals.Are you a conspiracy theorist or something?
I'd imagine Ulysses, or any modernist/post-modern book, is what happens when the author has absolutely nothing to say so he has to come up with tricks, obscurity, constant cheap references for the sake of referencing etc. Won't catch me reading any of this waste of paper because head-up-the-arse academics told me it's good, nope. Literature should've ended before the first World War or close to it.
>>25167433This is so weirdly specific that it's almost certainly a projection.
>>25167415man if ONLY there were a writer who understood the self-indulgent tendencies of academics and scholars and wrote books dissecting their tendencies, beating them at their own game, airing their dirty laundry, crafting characters that parodied their insecurities and moral blindspots.....IF ONLY...oh well.....
The Dostofags have arrived. Lovely.
>>25167442sorry you're intimidated by thought patterns more original than prefabricated semantic stop-sign buzzword #3086
test
>>25167450They should be rounded up and thrown in camps, starting with >>25167437
>>25167335You telling me what I'll do next is giving me the ick, anon
>>25167451Oh no, I'm reading a book that too many people can understand, how am I to be special then if Uncle Joe can get what this sentence means? Unfair!
>>25167408keep spamming the word generic, it totally doesn't make you or your comment look generic
>>25167437This is sadly often the case. I remember being blows away by Yeats and his Nineteen-hundred and nineteen, but he is really just saying that the revolution happening in his country is horrific and implying that it is inevitable all the same. Ok, why be horrified then? Aren't you the guy who said he wanted to reincarnate as a golden owl?Meanwhile, authors like David Lindsay are so original that not even allegory can be applied to Voyage to Arcturus. That book is just a man vomiting everything that is in his head straight onto the paper without much consideration for how pretty it is (the prose is stiff, at times minimalist and sometimes extremely specific) while producing a wholly original work.
>>25167464>how am i to be specialhave you tried getting raped in a death camp
>>25167464projecting and insecure
>>25167470Whew Joyce fans are really articulate, erudite, whimsical, but still grounded in the ineluctable modality of the postable.
>>25167470>say that Joyce is nothing special>fans suddenly have feverish fantasies about rapeSo much for optimism
>>25167469I need to read that then
>>25167476
Why do books have to be about something for some of you fucking retards to enjoy it? You know what they say, anime and video games are more your speed; I’d like to add something else to that actually, perhaps watching tiktoks on people discussing white nights is more your speed.
>>25167482>gets one guy'd>fans, pluralmaybe disney and studio ghibli are more (You)r speed
>>25167485picrel is boring and pretentious because it has no plot or action, literally nothing is happening
>>25167485I like it when books are about something. I don't like wasting my time on unicorns and psychopomps
>>25167491books with unicorns are precisely the kinds of books that are about "something" thoughbeit
Notice how the top #1 insult for Joyce-and-adjacent fans is saying someone is much more suited for simple, immortal, clear art. That's anathema to the lying fuck that declares reading FW is "fun". Of course it is, when they're in it solely to feel superior to others because of some fabled hidden wisdom in the gibberish that only they can see. Keep telling on yourselves
>>25167494>t. most intellectually secure dostoyevsky reader
>>25167492You knew what I meant. They're not really, really real
>>25167497Yes Timmy, you're fluent in nightspeak, now stop stroking yourself into soreness. Actually, if you're really interested, it's Gogol for me.
>>25167444ass raped by trips of truth kek
>>25167488Why do you sound like you spend more time typing in Twitch chats than reading a book?
>>25167500nice taste and nicer spacing
>>25167491I don't like reading fiction either.
>>25167509>loaded question>leading, manipulativeI accept your concession.
>>25167500>>25167500Gogol is great I’ll give you that; checked also. You’re still a faggot though.>>25167444Checked!!!
This thread is worse than your average /v/ threadt. /v/irgin
>>25167523Should I delete it?
>>25167511>that fontYou must be 18+ to post here lil guy
>>25167523How’s it going over there? Still whining about the big new game having a nigger in the cast?
>>25167559i am not sure you know how to use the word font
>>25167563The good old. A buncha piracy threads, crying about BG3 and E33, Onirism shilling. I just hang out in the fairy poke threads.
>>25167512Yeah. When I switched to non-fiction, it ruined me for fiction. I might have read two fiction books in the past 19 years
>>25167523Don't care. You should go there
>>25167682You cared enough to crytype this effeminate quip.
>>25167575Sounds ghastly
>>25167701That's a false equivalency and you're a faggot for trying it
>>25167428>Ulysses wasn't written primarily for intellectuals in mind and anyone who thinks otherwise is a gullible retard being mind-puppeted by intellectuals.Then who was it written for? It's impenetrable to all but intellectuals or those with companions made by intellectuals
>>25168009Intellectualism is a meme
>>25167494>the lying fuck that declares reading FW is "fun".>fabled hidden wisdomFinnegans Wake is certainly fun to read, though I’ve only read a chapter or two in full. But it’s fun to read on a surface level without thinking or without deep analysis just because it sounds silly and funny but also because at times it sounds very beautiful. It’s fun to pick out all the allusions and see how they work together, and to pick out the various puns. It’s fun to analyze it in terms of form, and to notice stuff like the almost musical, rhythmic repetition at the end of ALP. While camping with friends I will take along FW and I can open it to a random page and start reading out loud and it’s hilarious. None of this to do with finding “hidden wisdom”. I think Joyce viewed his works as aesthetic objects first and foremost, like a symphony or a painting, not as philosophical treatises
>>25162520>which makes me wonder why these guys even post on this website, considering this is one of the few places on the internet where you can get from discussion of literature to hyper cock vore in maybe like 3 clicks - whence the moralfaggotry?There is no good answer to this question other than to say that tradlarpers that frequent 4chan are simply unintelligent hypocrites.They answer they like to give is that it is most important to spread the word in a place with so much filth. Which is the classic surface level convenient crap they spew out in all facets of their lives.
>>25168518>they answer *the
>>25162091Autists can't parse Joyce due to their atypical structure of the brain. They can get through Dubliners and the Portrait well, since it's not as allegorically dense as Joyce's later works, but trip over Ulysses and collapse from FW.Ulysses requires you to understand the day as both an ordinary day and as the Odysseus epic. That requires an abstract form of thinking that autists lack; they all suffer from literality and concrete thinking, hence when they read Ulysses, they think it's about an average boring day and not see how they day actually follows and replicates, through urban encounters, the ancient epic. Th autistic inability to form a theory of mind is the reason why they think they book is fancy words and don't see how the complexity of vocabulary differs between Stephen and Bloom, and how the use of words paints the inner psychological world of the two main heroes. For them, it's just a massive wall of text made of difficult words. FW simply breaks the autist brain. It requires of the reader to see and keep two meanings, at least, of a word and phrase at the same time throughout the whole book. So, stimming, mewing, rocking, repeating abracadabras, shutting down, destroying their rooms from a meltdown, autists call FW schizo even though the book is as far from schizophrenia as one can get.Ulysses and FW are normie books. You can read them in high school, and understand everything more or less. Yes, even in the denser parts. It's only the Internet autists, too disabled to read real literature, who think Joyce is difficult or pretentious because his work is beyond their broken, concrete, low IQ brain. And 4chan is sperg central. So, here we are.
>>25168684you can read and understand anything that doesnt require specific technical knowledge
>>25162520>intellectualismit's just self jerking
>>25168009back in the day you didn't have to have a fancy university degree to understand an adequate amount of ulysses, you just had to be decently well read in ancient greeks, shakespeare, english poetry, understanding the evolution of english language and writing styles, etc. this was back in a time when we still had poetry sections in newspapers and magazines. it's a book that rewards being a lover of literature, less so the academic/scientific analysis that scholars are known for. you definitely need a classical education to understand EVERYTHING the book is doing since joyce himself was extremely well read, but that level of autism isn't necessary to enjoy the book. i probably only understand 5% of ulysses and that 5% is more magical and interesting than understanding 100% of some shitty tropey fan fic. also keep in mind many of the layered parodies and references that are designed to be understood by intellectuals are also pranks and puzzles that joyce put in the book to make fun of said intellectuals. the final chapter of portrait is doing similar things, it just becomes far more exaggerated in ulysses and FW. joyce was more interested in readers that read his book from a more personal standpoint, which is why the more humble leopold is the book's main figure, not stephen. i cant remember where but joyce once said he'd rather have 10 readers read his book a thousand times than 10 000 readers who only read it once.
>>25168725Fear not the man who has practiced 10 000 kicks one time, feat the man who has practiced one kick 10 000 times?
>>25168742
>>25163882i've done this many times back when i was an undergrad and it was usually kino. skill issue detected.
>>25162520>hyper cock vorewhat?
>>25164159he could look like a chad when he wanted to
>>25163511Blame social media and how the general U.S. culture is shifting as things worsen and get tighter and more competitive. Retard barbarism is seen as high-status, since lil naquan or whatever the fuck mumbles 40 IQ diatribe and this is rewarded with money and openly worshipped by everyone. This is what low-IQ low-trust "multicultural" society looks like. And no, it's not even only zoomers as I've noticed boomers and millenials have become even worse in this aspect.
>>25166613I don't think this is accurate. Many modernists had a distrust of modern culture. Eliot and Joyce are probably the two most obvious examples of this. Joyce was skeptical of psychoanalysis which was extremely fashionable in his time, he was critical of growing nationalist sentiments, etc. The book is life-affirming but it isn't exactly modernity-affirming.>>25168684Good post. Reading Joyce is challenging because he wants you to operate on several levels all at once: the literal, the historical, the allegorical and the anagogical. Autists that only read non-fiction or stem textbooks only know how to interact with language on that first level. It's like trying to get someone to appreciate the sensory experience of a waterfall or aurora borealis or something, but only 2 of their 5 senses are even working.
>>25168839>It's like trying to get someone to appreciate the sensory experience of a waterfall or aurora borealis or somethingFalse, those are simple and immediately graspable and enjoyable for most people. The Joycean experience however, as you guys have basically said, is like a blind and deaf man attempting to appreciate the waterfall only by reading some braille description of its history, its physical attributes, puns about and allusions to the waterfall, and semiotics of the waterfall.
>>25169088they're not simple at all, robot.
>>25168839>Reading Joyce is challenging because he wants you to operate on several levels all at once: the literal, the historical, the allegorical and the anagogical.If you focus on only one of these levels at a time, then the book reads somewhat differently, as if it is morphing itself depending on what you seek to get from it.>Joyce was skeptical of psychoanalysis which was extremely fashionable in his timeWhich is ironic considering he was pretty good at it himself I believe. Lestrygonians has some juicy material on that which I only noticed in my second read.
>>25169184Nothing's simple if you autistically analyze its physical and spiritual attributes, but the experience of a waterfall and the aurora borealis are simple and immediately powerful. There's nothing to get "filtered" by
>>25169447you've never met a real autist or you are one yourself
>>25169455Explain why a waterfall is not simple, and how it's actually more autistic to like looking at one than analyzing one
>>25169525read the water section in Ithaca
>>25169535Loved that part, it was fun to learn as well as charming to read such things in autistic detail. Though this applies to a lot of Ithaca. Oh, NTA btw.
>>25169535How about you answer the questions bucko
>>25168839> The book is life-affirming but it isn't exactly modernity-affirmingHis life affirming attitude comes from his optimism towards emancipatory moments that arose from modernity like socialism and feminism.
>>25169843examples from the text to prove your point?
>>25169843The fuck are you talking about?
they try to teach this man in class at IIT and it make the me sneeze with boredom
>>25169958Maybe you should practice your English a little more and you’ll not be so bored.
>>25169890Portrait of an Artist and Ulysses are practically bursting at the seams with his excitement about the prospect of women’s sexual liberation.
>>25168684This is a lot of delusion
Probably because more than 95% of the people on this board (including) haven't read a Joyce novel.
>>25170204That can’t be true… can it? Dubliners is pretty accessible.
>>25170236I avoided reading Dubliners for the longest time because Joyce intimidated me and I thought it'd be almost as difficult as Ulysses. Also I started with the Greeks anyway.
He's so much cooler than me it's not fair
I'm finding from other boards that people find it really hard to read these days. Do people really? What a sad state of affairs. So glad I was born in an era where reading was an actually thing you did (1970s.) I probably was reading adult level books by 1979. I was eight damn years old. What the fuck happened to people? Why are we so stupid? I could count on the fingers of one hand how many people I've known to ever read Joyce. Why is this sad to me? Why do I even fucking care?
>>25174309It’s okay to rant now and then. Yeah, even here I find many of the people who say they engage in regular reading here’s claims to be dubious. And this is wrong, and presumptuous of me. But it does appear that less people read these days. This board is filled with many angry, opinionated young men who care more about being perceived as the smartest guy in the room than actually discussing what they read in detail. There are certainly a few, but a lot of posts are just like this >>25168010
>>25174309Anecdotal, but I wasn't really interested in reading literature until after I finished uni. Sure, I read the occasional Dumas, Kafka, Eco, Vonnegut or Zafon as a child, and I read the prescribed school reading (loved Dostoevsky and Camus, liked Prus, hated Sienkiewicz and Mickiewicz) but I was more interested in YA, mystery, fantasy and sci-fi. Plus philosophy, I tried reading Kant and Wittgenstein but bounced off pretty hard.You need a certain level of emotional maturity to read Melville and Joyce. I'm absolutely certain my high school self would hate those two authors in particular.
>>25174572>I tried reading Kant and WittgensteinTry again, but read Aristotle first.
>>25174309i know that feel bro. i'm lucky i was raised by readers, anything from comics to horror to political biographies. my grandfather gave me a book on gulags when i was 12 years old and gave me this great preamble about why it's important to read, the importance of perseverance in the face of hopelessness, its moments like that that makes reading so important. im glad he gave me a book like that when i was young, kids are tougher than we realize but we coddle them with mindless distractions. readers raise other readers, and these days people just don't make it a part of their lives anymore. sad stuff.
>>25174379That was me too, the intellectualism is a meme post. This probably says something about me that I don't like but I don't have a fucking clue what that would be
>>25174579Based grandpa
>>25174817I don’t think it means anything, you just felt like posting because it’s amusing or something. It happens all the time; I’ve done it too, it’s often down to laziness or vacuity in that moment in my case. If I’m honest, your post was an arbitrary pick, and this thread hasn’t been the most terrible. There are much worse threads up right now
>>25174833Understood. Anytime I feel like intellectualism is getting ahold of me, I just remind myself if how little I actually know. I met anons on here all the time that blow me out of the water. I admire them
>>25174841>I met anons on here all the time that blow me out of the water. This is why I don’t think this board in particular is as bad as what many frequenters believe. In the right threads there’s some productive discussion that in my experience has actually proved efficacious in reinforcing my articulation. Everyone has a different field of expertise. One person here could be extremely erudite on matters relating Kantian idealism, being able to elucidate for the layperson what they agree or disagree with about his table of judgements for example, which is where many people find dubious his assertion that they are actually a priori judgements. Meanwhile, they may fumble in matters relating to something like Grothendieck’s Algebraic Geometry. I’m digressing anyway. What I’m saying is that you probably have something you’re versed enough in to discuss in greater detail.What have you been reading? Maybe giving your own thoughts on what interests you and having a discussion about that will have you more engaged.
>>25174888I read mostly classics. The last two classics I read were as I lay dying (excellent book) and the gospel according to Jesus Christ (written by an atheist and also excellent). I read very few genre fiction books anymore. They're so boring to me. I am reading nos4ra2 but it's been a struggle. It's not bad, it's just genre driven ofc. I need more classics in my life. Canon stuff. Must read this before I die type books. I read a lot so I got quite a few finished but damn, there are just so many to cover. I touch on philosophy here and there but if it ain't Greek, I'm skeptical.
>>25162091Hi what language did he write in hi I'm Indian I'm writing this from Thunder Bay
>>25176145hello and good day to you my friend he was flrom Ire Land and speaked from Ire Landish my friend
>>25176145>>25176146good morning sirs I hope you are well today and are blessed with god bless. he wrote in English as we are now sir
