>Pretentious writers avoid simple verbs. Instead of using one word, such as break,stop, spoil, mend, kill, they turn the verb into a noun or adjective and tack it ontosome general-purpose verb such as prove, serve, form, play, render. Whereverpossible, they use the passive voice instead of the active and noun constructionsinstead of gerunds (by examination of instead of by examining).Orwell is right.
I like Orwell, but his writing can be at times flavourless
>>25162558He's right
good writing advice for a journalist =/= good writing advice for a novelist
>>25162558learn how to greentext newfag retard
>>25162559A novel is supposed to tell a story, not a word study.
>>25162574/thread
>>25162574>>25162585I have been here before An Hiro owned the place, I just didn't fucking noticed the space in the quote.Do you feel special for trying to be cool in an imageboard?
>>25162564He wrote the #1 best seller in political fiction for almost 80+ years, and retroactively built the future political system of the largest countries on Earth. So it must be pretty good advice.
>>25162610And if every novelist wanted to write a book in the same genre and style as 1984, you would have an argument.
>>25162628I believe that most novelists want to write a book in a style that will be a #1 best seller.
>>25162652
>>25162579no a novel just needs a novel idea
>>25162658Yeah, you sure did do that. Thanks for self reflecting.
>>25162670>I concede
>>25162678That’s a fair point. I digressed from the topic, and realise that my mention of bestsellers has no bearing on Orwell’s advice regarding the craft of writing. I certainly didn’t intend to steer the conversation away from the discussion of style and clarity of expression. Returning to the core issue: I still believe that Orwell’s advice regarding simplicity and clarity remains highly relevant, particularly in journalism. However, I do concede that in fiction, especially given the diversity of genres and styles, greater flexibility is possible.
>>25162610>#1 best seller in political fiction for almost 80+ yearsAnd unexpectedly it's a trash book written for retards by a retard. Reading his prose feels like getting a lobotomy.
>>25163247Calling Orwell a fool is a wild take. His writing is clear and simple, which makes it powerful. He talks about this in his essay "Politics and the English Language," where he says good writing should be clear and honest. He didn't aim to show off; he wanted his ideas to be remembered. The fact that millions of people still read his work shows how meaningful it is, much more than your silly little comment.
>>25163260>His writing is clear and simple, which makes it powerful.A sentence just as vague and unconvincing as everything written by Orwell. I've read his crappy essay, with its many solecisms and truisms, and if he weren't a retard he would never have attempted to list necessary qualities of good writing like he's creating a recipe for baking a cake. A mistaken idea from the start that has done nothing but ruin English prose. 1984 was an unbelievably dull and uninteresting book. Orwell does not belong among the great essayists and novelists.
>>25162591kill yourself
>>25163278inb4: James Joyce fan
>>25163279It's okay anon. No one here knows you are a tryhard teenager.
>>25163280Yes, James Joyce was an infinitely greater novelist and intellect than Orwell. If you dislike Joyce, there's always an endless number of English authors that can serve the same purpose of comparatively revealing Orwell's diminutive stature.
>>25163314Orwell had an impact in culture. So much so that we still use 'Orwellian' in normal conversations.Joyce is only used when you wanna talk about pretentious bullshit.
>>25163279chill, little dude
>>25163278Orwell's writing is clear and honest, which gives it great power. You can criticize his books, but I think they are truly amazing. Many people do not understand the complex details of Finnegans Wake, but Orwell's work is forged in truth and simplicity, which gives it power. Two hundred years from now, even if Joyce and Irish fairy tales are long forgotten, Orwell's writings will still be true, real, and powerful.
>>25163365Orwell only repackaged what was already known about the world and people. He's more of a period writer than Joyce because he doesn't say anything new, he's just a meme. A new meme will replace him soon enough.
>>25163358>Orwell had an impact in culture. So much so that we still use 'Orwellian' in normal conversations.The Simpsons had an impact in culture. So much so we still used 'Flanderised' in normal conversation.If you think Joyce is 'pretentious bullshit' then you haven't read Dubliners.>>25163365Joyce will never be forgotten because he is a genius whose writing has more 'power', at its very simplest, than anything written by Orwell, who will most likely be forgotten when the liberal fetishisation of democracy and simple speech is forgotten. Orwell is popular mostly because he serves the purposes of the day, not because he is exceptional in any way.
>>25163279based, get his ass
>>25163447>>25163450Orwell's writing is simple and clear, which makes it insanely powerful. If the foundation which Orwell built for us became a new meme, it would use even simpler and clearer language, without trying to be fancy like James Joyce. If Orwell only wrote for the moment, he wouldn't have so many loyal readers going on 80 years now like me who love his clear and strong writing, even though it's plain and lacks glamour or money. If Orwell were to suddenly disappear, it wouldn't matter what simple meme people liked instead because all freedom would be lost with him, as we would be stuck in room 101, forced to read Finnegans Wake against our will just because it's called "good."
>>25162558https://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/lear/english/e_ltfhe made real borscht outta that Russian nigga
>>25162558>stops using green text in themiddle of his sentence
>>25163469Nigga literally psychoanalyzed him instead of refuting the arguments. Shitpost tier essay by Orsmell
>>25163462> 1984, thoughtcrime, facecrime, plusungood (plusunalive), newspeak, duckspeak, hey winston finish your exercises, pornosec, memory hole, many of orwells memes would of been added by someone else later but some of them might of been different from someone else
>>25162579Good novels can do both and arguing otherwise is cope
>>25163450>The Simpsons had an impact in culture. So much so we still used 'Flanderised' in normal conversation.Kek, that was a terrible example to make a point. The Simpsons are an excellent social satire, and there are many math-related jokes. It became part of pop culture because of its comedy, but more often than not, also because of its social commentary. Back in the day, when it still was made with a lot of effort, at least.
>>25163494>refuting the argumentsThere were no arguments provided, Tolstoy literally just said "I don't like Shakespeare so his popularity must be a conspiracy". He'd fit in really well on 4chan.
>>25164240you will never be smart and you will never win arguments online
>>25164245I already am, and I just did.
>>25163365As an artist, as someone worth remembering in literature, Joyce will far outlast Orwell. Shakespeare isn’t so fondly remembered for his worldview is he?For the record, Orwell loved Joyce’s writing.
>>25164251Orwell will be remembered because 1984 is the greatest dystopian fiction ever written.
>>25164240>I didn't like the arguments he made nor can I refute them so I'll pretend like they simply don't existNeckbeard moment
>>25164265Again, "I don't like it, so its popularity must be a conspiracy" is not an argument. Seethe harder, faggot.
>>25164248you want it so bad
>>25164270>ignoring every single argument except one (1), misrepresenting even that one, then dismissing it based on the misrepresentationTolstoy vindicated, back to tranime groomer
>>25164274First thing I thought of when I saw this pic was Gravity’s Rainbow. Not necessarily due to the missile on its own, but supplemented with that drawing.
>>25164290>hasn't presented a single one of his "arguments" I accept your full and unconditional surrender, thanks for playing.
>>25164316>claims to like Shakespeare>can't readTolstoy doubly vindicated. Stick to your cartoons
>>25164341>still has provided 0 argumentsI accept your further concessions.
>>25164347>Admitting you can't read and dying on that hillkek
>>25164391>0 arguments presented>just keeps repeating the same bullshityou lost again lmao
>>25162558There's nothing wrong with simple language, but there are diminishing returns. Eventually, you get Empress Theresa. If you are well-read in a variety of topics, you will naturally have a wide and advanced vocabulary. Anyone who is stumped by it is clearly a pleb
À propos grammar, can anyone suggest an English grammar book to sharpen one’s language rules knowledge?
>>25164444Just read and practice the trivium
>>25165480>trivium Latin isn’t the lingua franca anymore, it might be lingua intellectualis though.
>>25162579Why would you write a book if you have no interest at all in the unique qualities of the medium? What you want is to make movies. You only write because it's cheap.
>>25162558Sure. And pretentious writers also avoid complex verbs and make generalizations about what "writers" do
>>25164251I doubt it. I feel that Joyce is held up by university departments etc
>>25166132Bukowski, Hemingway, Ishiguro, and Orwell himself prove you can write good books without excessively masturbatory prose.
>>25166333go back to /tv/ and /v/ fattie
>Oh look, another thread of anime kiddies who think 12th grade writing level prose is le pretentious
>>25164255Orwell will unfortunately NOT be remembered because le next generations are too busy watching Hasanabi vs Asmongold culture wars. Just as novelists like Tolstoy and Joyce are only upheld by academia, this fate will soon befall Orwell. No one in mainstream media can even remember any of his characters, his neologisms. They just vaguely gesture towards any fascist/draconian policy or measure as so-called "Orwellian"
>>25163358my god you want to sound smart so bad lmao
>>25162558Orwell didn't say this (even if this excerpt is kind of compatible with some of his own essays), /lit/ truly is infested with a bunch of gullible, naive retards kek.
>>25166349I don’t understand, it’s more like he’s trying to sound like the idiot he is, rather than someone smart
>>25166339>>12th grade writing level prose is le pretentiousWhat are you even referring to?
>>25166364i'll tell you when you learn to greentext
>>25166366A non answer, thanks. Orwell is the only 12th grade person I can think of that you’re possibly talking about and yet, mo one is calling him pretentious.
>>251663721984 and Animal Farm are famously 9th grade reading level, retarded bugman.
>>25166377Lower than that actually, dumb mutt. Then again, half of you retards can’t eve read until you’re in your twenties.
>>25166381Wrong again, ESL
>>25162558Take heart Mr. Orwell. You have not, I think, come upon any dreary plateau, as you suppose, but have rather wandered onto some lesser-known path, where the view is strange and the footing uncertain. Yet I would have you take heart; for even in these meanderings there is proof of motion, and in your very words I discern a mind by no means common, but active and possessed of quiet strength. Pray do not be deceived into believing that growth must needs advance in a straight and measurable line toward perfectitude, like milestones upon a well-kept road; for neither time nor the human spirit submits so readily to such order. Indeed, of all the mysteries with which we are acquainted, that of human potential is among the most capricious and the most grand. You may therefore say—without vanity and without fear—that your present station is but a passing circumstance, and not the fixed boundary of all you may yet become.
>>25166383No I think I’m right, try what you Americans call “6th grade”.So then I ask again, who are you referring to? Joyce is more commonly studied in universities. Brontë, Dostoevsky, Oscar Wilde, they’re 12th grade literature.
>>25166335Kek. You can't even refute what I said, because if you use an ad verecundiam, I can resort to using such ad verecundiam back, where Ishiguro and Hemingway are Nobel Prize winners. >>25166349You're the one trying to prove to yourself that you are smart. You failed to achieve anything in life, and your escapism is to use literature to 'prove' yourself that you have anything remotely reminiscent of intellectual abilities.
>>25166372>1984>12th grade level
>>25166411you want it so bad but you will never have what it takes
>>25166420I assumed that’s what the guy above me was implying since he’s the only person mentioned ITT taught to high schoolers. I myself don’t think him- you know what, it doesn’t matter.
>>25166426Read the concept of deflection in psychology. It might open your eyes. You reek of it, by the way.
>>25166432>>25166434>i'm smart and i'm interesting and i belong hereguess whatwrong
>>25166450You keep doing it. But it's fine, eventually you will realize it. Or maybe not. You can do it. I believe in you friend :)
>>25166450You’re kind of a retard, friend.
>>25166454>>25166457guess what
>>25166500You’re a retard looking to argue with literally anyone because you’re so jaded? Yeah! We know!
>>25166507wrong
>>25162558I don't know what any of that means, but when I was in college, I was a pretentious writer and used big words in my short stories, probably because I had read a bunch of Edgar Allan Poe was tried to copy his purple prose. I was and probably am still a horrible writer.
