Just finished. Can somebody explain what it was all about? Half of the time I couldn't even understand what was literally happening and the final stretch is incomprehensible. Why did you guys even recommend this book? There's a scene where some dude eats shit from a woman's ass while pretending it's a BBC. WTF.
>>25168107>Can somebody explain what it was all about?Yes, Wilhelm Reich
>reading books that go for the head and not the heart/soulOverly intricate intellectual showboating by authors was a mistake.
test
>>25168147You clearly haven't read it
>>25168107>Can somebody explain what it was all about? The genesis of the Cold War, and the birth of nuclear paranoia. It was published in the early 1970s, and is very much a novel of its time.>the final stretch is incomprehensibleSlothrop already has a paranoid disposition, which is steadily compounded by events in the narrative. Late on, he finds a newspaper article about the Hiroshima bomb, and realises the Rocket can now be used to wipe entire cities off the map. This is the catalyst for a complete psychotic breakdown which is depicted in the final section.
>>25168177You are correct.
>>25168147This is not what the book is. It’s annoyingly frivolous most of the time.
>>25168147i agree but that's not what this book is doing. do you think grade 5 math textbooks are also self-indulgent and pretentious? maybe stick to anime and disney.
>>25168147I believe it is considered the beginning of the reddification of literature. Authors of books like Ready Player One and Hail Mary cite is as inspiration for pop culture references and (attemps at) "humor"
>>25168107I jacked off to the parts where Slothrop has a nasal hardon, then came when the slutty nymphet, Bianca, participated in a high rolling orgiastic sacrifice to an evil sea god.
>>25168771i know what you mean, it's an erotic book, i'm 100% straight, but that part where the black guy parts slothrop's hairy ass to lube it up, i had to get one off right away, came buckets
>>25168774Aren’t you talking about something that happens in the first 100 pages? You didn’t read the book.
>>25168107Pudding is literally consuming the waste of the past because he is unable to move on from the trauma of 1917. This scene was a major reason why Gravity's Rainbow was denied the Pulitzer Prize in 1974. The advisory board called it "unreadable," "turgid," and "obscene."The shit doesn't represent a BBC; that's your contemporary rotbrain taking control. In the book, Katje is dressed as "Domina Nocturna", a personification of death. Pynchon uses the scene to comment on the bureaucracy, power dynamics, and the "shitty" nature of the British establishment
>>25168775>t. plotfag
Why is every Pynchon thread so terrible? There's not even one post here that shows any sort of iq that any one read the book and has even a basic understanding of it or any part of it.
>>25168785enlighten us then. give us some insight
>>25168785Newsflash: no one on /lit/ reads. More at eleven.
>>25168785Most of the real pynchon fans got tired of this place and left for the thomas pynchon subreddit. I flip back and forth between there and here, but most just never came back.
>>25168780remember, Ernest described WW1 as "...piled, duckboarded, trenched and shell-pocked leagues of shit in all directions." pretty clear what Pynchon's intentions were with making him eat Katje's shit; he's not subtle when he’s deconstructing the military establishment. specifically in the context of the White Visitation, he's implying that the entire war machine (both ww1 and 2) is fueled by irrational and personal obsession rather than the "logical" strategy the public is propagandized to believe in
>>25168107Litterally finished reading it too, i'm really lost too but I think there's a theme of how modern war makes modern states outdated, their effort to control it fail. They fail to control the zone, and all their plots to understand the rocket fail
>>25168804 (me)And also the war is much more random/filled with rogue agent that they would like
>>25168802simply, Katje represents the modern military establishment, and Ernest is the indentured, traumatized extension of it
>>25168785no one here can sincerely interact with stories more complicated than the sopranos or the last of us
>>25168785>>25168795>>25168799>>25168819Any insight for us retards?
>>25168107>Can somebody explain what it was all about?WW2, CIA psyops, nuclear anxiety, corporate meddling in politics, the dissolution of Meaning in the modern world, the Elect and the Preterite, an answer to Joyce's Ulysses, Life (bananas) vs Death (rockets). Pynchon himself is definitely connected to three letter agencies. They probably tried to recruit him at Cornell/Boeing. He definitely knew about MKUltra, hence the weird drug/sex stuff.
>>25168107Part 3 is a slog
>>25168785There hasn't been any good effort posting in Pynchon threads for years. I have no idea why when reading the original OP you'd think this thread would be any different.
>>25168834truly pynchonian
>>25168799No wonder the shilling for pynchon on reddit increased ten-fold
>>25168809ironically, the Dutch name Katje is derivative of Katherine, which comes from the Greek katharos, meaning "pure." make of the fact that "The Pure One" is shitting into the mouth of Ernest Pudding what you will
>>25168107penguinz of doom: the book
Slothrop is not experiencing cause-and-effect relationships in the normal way. Pynchon was using his engineering background to play around with trendy ideas which had emerged in math and physics in the 1960's and early-70's, like quantum mechanical interpretations of reality. Slothrop and the rockets are experiencing a kind of toroidal spacetime which is being 'mapped' to the normal world, which unites them in time even though they are separated geometrically. This is related to his abreactive episodes. Abreactions were a big obsession of Carl Jung, who speculated about the notion of a shared consciousness. Pynchon is borrowing from psychotherapy and is putting those ideas into the context of a mathematical framework. The theme in a broader sense had to do with WWII's technologization of society. Heidegger had a famous essay in the 50's called 'The Question Concerning Technology' which was about the way that modern technological society inevitably categorized the natural world into potential inputs for production. Pynchon takes that line of thinking and extends it out into metaphysics. He's speculating about how something like Jung's spiritus mundi would be recognized and then weaponized by the system if it were to arise in a specific individual.
>>25168785OP here, i admit im a brainlet, even your post was a hard for me to parse with “that shows any sort of iq that any one read the book” So then can you help explain some of the ideas of the book?>>25168780Well I get what you mean but he does imagine it’s a black guy’s penis>>25168832I guess I understand the topics Pynchon wanted to discuss but not his actual theses around them. Especially any time preterite was mentioned. Or what the hereros were trying to do with racial suicide
>>25168147it goes for both and if you actually had a brain and a soul you'd realize this instead of relying on infantile false dichotomies. stick to netflix.
>>25168865At least they discuss the book, unlike this flaming pile of shit that is this thread.
>>25168907>even your post was a hard for me to parseI suggest reading the book in your native language and not in English. There's some really good translations.
>>25168907he's going on about how the military industrial complex is partially built on racial paranoia. it's not necessarily about BBC but how the "system" uses racial "otherness" as political motivation
>>25168914English is my only language, im only reading books written by other native English speakers these days since I’ve realized the writing in translated books always feels too dumbed downTbh I’m not convinced you didn’t make a mistake in what i quoted from you
>>25168925but i am convinced you made a mistake in what i quoted from you
>>25168898Basically he is taking high concepts and redressing them for his sjw persona
>>25168945There's not much SJW influence. Pynchon was extremely cynical about the whole situation.
>>25168945>sjw personais that why his biggest fanbase is the hilary/biden/kamala voter?
>>25168834Ugh… I have that copy too, I didn’t even like it that much either.
>>25168806>>25168804Hm but don’t “They” win in the end? It seems like the counterforce is described as ineffectual, they can’t even recover Slothrop, the hereros are scared to launch 00001. And all those so called rogue actors are really all a part of the plan They designed… or maybe that’s just Slothrop’s paranoia imagining things that way. Hm
>>25168829Pearls before swine
>>25169216As i understood it's the corporate empire ig something that wins, and wins notably by controling the individual nations.Also pretty sure the 0001 doesn't really matter to them
>>25169228Uh anon IG Farben went defunct
boggles the mind how a writer as good as pynchon always has such shit threads. it's always:>BBC>ESL>REDDITor a few anons giving the most basic bitch analysis level possible.
>>25169267>writer as good as pynchonHmm like Gene Wolfe? :)
>>25169275what? is this a meme? pynchon is one of the greatest writers ever, despite the threads on 4chan. gene wolfe is a slightly above average genre fiction writer.
>>25169267>or a few anons giving the most basic bitch analysis level possible.I feel like I understood <50% of the book. I doubt I'd be able to put out any analysis of note until the inevitable reread.Besides, OP was asking about the book in general, rather than going into the specifics. I still don't know what the Kirghiz Light was.
>>25169286quiet, do you want them to come here???
>>25169289That would be fun. They’re about as good as each other after all
>>25169258Then I didn't understand fuckWho's the "The Man" then?
>>25169288oh, so you've only read it once?
>>25169267>or a few anons giving the most basic bitch analysis level possible.should have been here when one anon was saying slothrop hallucinated the entirety of what happened. he got absolutely obliterated by a bunch of anons who actually understood the book. never seen a massacre that bad.
>>25169292now now don't be too hasty
>>25169299That sounds humiliating. I’ve got a take people are sure to enjoy though, the book fucking sucked
>>25169301Please enlighten me I don't have the strength to read it again
>>25169305a hot nigger turd penis!!!
>>25169307it's easier on rereadreversal of cause and effect and all
>>25169312>he thinks reversal of cause and effect really happenedfiltered. try reading it againn. without plotfagging this time.
You pynchoniggers are a pretentious bunch huh?
>>25169317Sigh anon think what does slothrop spend most of the book looking for
>>25169324strike two. if you can post something proving you've read it and didn't just plotfag, then by all means let's continue this discussion. if not, i'll just have to ignore you and move on from this time waste. i'll give you one more chance. prove yourself.
>>25169317There is no reversal of cause and effect in terms of plot, but it's a massive deal thematically. From the V-2 rockets arriving before their sound, to shit like Kenosha Kid being explained at the end of the book.
>>25169330thank you for agreeing with me.
>>25169327I've led you to the water now it is on you to drink
So did that one soldier giving the haircut kill the colonel?
>>25169334Oh yeah what was up with that?Also what was up with when they send out those agents into London to find the women that Slothrop had sex with but they can't find any trace of their existence? Did Slothrop just make up his sex escapade map?>>25169267>>25168785Is this a board meme like posting "my diary" as a response to any thread asking for book recommendations? I've already admitted I don't know what's going on and would like to hear other people's thoughts on the book. How about you enlighten us with your above-basic-bitch analysis instead of just smugly acting like you know any better?
My semen squirts on my eye. It has happened before, but there is nothing I can see now.
>>25169339She was a witch
>>25169340brilliant
>>25169339If you're confused you're probably overthinking it
>>25169339Just give up. GR is above you. Pynchon is the master that few can even begin to come close to understanding. Guessing your intelligence based off the way you write, I would say try anime and video games which I've heard are fun for people of your intelligence level.
>>25169349I mean he's no Faulkner but whatever
>>25169349>Pynchon is the master that few can even begin to come close to understanding. Lel. Redditors mad that we don't revere him
>>25169350>>25169349But funnily enough the last book I read before GR was The Sound and the Fury and I found that pretty comprehensible.
>>25169353Did you plotfag it as bad you're doing to GR?
>>25169351us oldheads do.
>>25169349>>25169353You sound like a gamer yourself, valuing how “le hard” it is over the actual quality of his writing. Shut up, go back. Or go and read your proto rick and morty book again. Faulkner may not be as difficult, but he’s far better.
>>25169355>crosses out GRPerfect.
>>25169355Aw shucks, 4chan died in 2016, isn’t it precious? They tooks it from us, uh, have you ever seen the Kenosha Kid? Trumpisattva tooks it from us, it burns, it freezes.
>>25169354Well I'd say TSATF doesn't really have much of a plot.Anyway, before you can start to discuss the deeper meaning of a book, you have to comprehend what is literally happening, i.e., the plot right? Yes plot is a basic element, but since it's basic you should understand that first. Then you can move on to more advanced things.
>>25169357I know you're baiting, but I'd put Pynch above Faulkner. Or at least put GR above TSATF and AILD, V. and TSATF are more or less on the same level (aka brilliant but frustrating). Might change my mind once I read Absalom. If I get book-length Quentin section, that shit is landing straight in my top 5.
>>25169365I've heard Attack on Titan and Fortnight are really popular. Try those.
>>25169366Really? I liked GR, but for the writing alone, I would place A, A or TSATF well above it. That’s just me though.
Second rate version of Gaddis. Who himself is already pretty second rate. Gass is better
>>25169369I’d put The Crying Latke of 49 above anything Billy “I Suck My Mammy’s Tits Real Goo’” Faulkner shat out
>>25169373Go back, expeditiously.
Ok, no more responding to baiters. Only people with good faith contributions from here on out.
>>25169373As someone who actually loves Pynchon, stop talking like that. You make us look like idiots. Discuss literature at a level worthy of Pynchon or don't discuss it at all. You just give fuel for the trolls with dumbass posts like that.
>>25169369Quentin section is definitely above anything in GR on a linguistic level, but GR just gives you so much to dig into. It's like comparing lyrical poetry to Moby-Dick; the former can beat Melville even at his most brilliant, but the book covers so much more than just that.I also hated Benjy and Jason sections. I know what Faulkner was going for, but it makes for a really awful reading experience. Hence my potential enthusiasm for Absalom, if Faulkner can sustain Quentin's high tone for the entire book, that catapult Faulkner right into my all-time favourite authors list.Might even pick it up this year once I'm done with Proust.
>>25169378>My mammy got them milks that makes me shit out all my innards, done run down my legs naw, mhmm, if my name ain’t Billy Sartoris, sole overseer of this here plantation, when all them pickaninny niggers be up in this here farm, lawdy, and then I done seen Pearl June chile come up the way with a big hearse pulling after her white lily ass, ooooo lawdy, jizzing out the frothy big black cockRiveting stuff. American “literature” at its finest.
>>25169381Again, if you're going to call yourself a Pynchon fan please either stop calling yourself one or stop talking in the manner you are, because you're making us look like dumbasses. You know you can ignore the trolls and effort post about Pynch, right?Ask yourself if you think this is how Pynchon would discuss literature? Do you think he would sit around and say "I'd rather read 'On the Road' than anything Walt Faggyboy Whitman' shat out?'"? Use your words correctly and let's make this board a better place. Especially in regards to Pynchon.
>>25169373pynchon literally copied the "le scrambled chronology" from Faulkner and his acolytes like John Hawkes. Faulkner is a great writer. pynchon isn't even a good writer
>>25169355What oldheads? I am old enough to remember all the annoying redditors that came with 2016 election tours. That's when GR hit its peak popularity. Before that it was still manageably bad
>>25169387OK anon
>>25169383You go to English departments at college to jack off to porn and write obscene jokes. You come to 4chan to discuss weighty tomes in replies that have character limits.
>>25169363pynchon and dfw hit peak popularity during the days of election tourism
I like both Faulkner and Pynchon.
>>25169390DFW wasn’t even popular in 2016; it was the beginning of the MeToo era and he was already cancelled. He reached his peak in the 00s and 10s when he was canonised as a Nice Guy self-help guru. He was shilled here from day one because he’s what the people who shill Neutral Milk Hotel and Tarkus read.
Rather than make quality comparisons to other authors, can we try to stay on topic and discuss Gravity's Rainbow?
>>25169389Is what you’re writing reflective of the genius and artistry of Pynchon’s works? Yes or no? Do you think Pynchon would discuss literature like that? Yes or no?
>>25169415Yes and yes. >Anon sux cocks, black and white!>He guzzles every drop of cum in sight!>Anon is a faggot and takes it arseways!>Nora Barnacle’s loose arsehole would blow him back to The Hague!
>>25169389Brevity is key though.
>>25169423That’s why journal articles are over 10,000 words and not even an introduction would be able to be included in a 3000 character reply.
>>25169394I am talking about /lit/ not normalfag spaces. On /lit/ 2016 DFW had at least 10 threads at all times.
>>25169428This is a normalfag space. Most people here use tinder, twitter, instagram, tumblr, or Bluesky. They are the people who virtue signal on those platforms.
>>25169432I only use /v/ and /vrpg/. Used to frequent /fit/ and /mu/ too before they went to shit.
>>25169435Even normalfags speak in blackpill slang and incel speech now. It’s over.
>>25169435Aren’t they even worse though? At least /v/?
>>25169432Maybe now but not pre-elections. 4chan was still niche relative to the bigger online forums.
>>25169432>This is a normalfag space. Most people here use tinder, twitter, instagram, tumblr, or Bluesky.What the fuck..uh, sorry anon, but no. I only use this place, insta, titktok, and reddit (the pynchon subreddit only to be fair though, never anything else).
>>25169428You're not convincing anybody just go back
>>25169439Yeah, but /v/ was always shit. It's a guilty pleasure.
>>25169440It’s obvious the posters here were also on other websites or platforms, even before 2016. Just look at the archives.
>>25169446A mindless pleasure perhaps?
>>25169442The fact you use TikTok and Insta says you’re a normie
>>25169442It really is true that you pynchites are redditors after all.
>>25169448What has that to do with anything?>>25169445Newfag cope
>>25169450>The fact you use TikTok and Insta says you’re a normieIt's not normie if everyone uses it.>>25169453As I said, I only use the subreddit to talk about Pynchon, you know, actual literature discussion? Crazy, huh? I have it bookmarked so I can go directly there and bypass all the stupid reddit shit.
>>25169454The myth that 4channers are autistic shut ins who don’t venture into other platforms or social circles is that, a myth. Most of the people you talk to are popular normie sex havers who go to parties and fuck hot women.
>>25169457
>>25169457Normie is the definition of “everyone”. It means neurotypical sex haver.
>>25169334 (me)No one answered my question :(
>>25169454Yes anon, the lit trilogy that has been around since before you were born is just "newfag cope"
>>25169462"Everyone", not "People in general". Everyone by definition includes both normies and not normies.
>>25169463I'm sorry anon. I don't even know why the story was included. Doesn't Jamf appear as a hallucination in that part too?
>>25169469Admit it: you have sex. You don’t belong on r/braincel or Encyclopaedia Dramatica on a high score wiki page. Admit it: you are a normalfag. You probably even talk to girls.
Thomas?! THOMAS!! Get in here!! Look, they’re talking about you again! Look, tell them what’s what.
>>25169473>Admit it: you have sex. You don’t belong on r/braincel or Encyclopaedia Dramatica on a high score wiki page. Admit it: you are a normalfag. You probably even talk to girls.I had sex one time with one girl when I was started college, regular sex with a girlfriend who cheated on me with my best friend, and I experimented with a guy after getting high once. I don't talk to any girls now and am not regularly having sex because I feel like I'm going to get hurt again.
>>25168107>Can somebody explain what it was all about?it's a Vaudevillian cloak-and-dagger acid trip porno>Why did you guys even recommend this book? There's a scene where some dude eats shit from a woman's ass while pretending it's a BBC.why did you immediately answer your own question?
>>25169464Learn how to follow a thread, newfag
>>25169481You sound like me except the faggot part. And I didn’t get cheated on. I felt smothered though, I prefer solitude.
>>25168780>The shit doesn't represent a BBC; that's your contemporary rotbrain taking control.he literally says it's impossible for him not to think about a negro penis
>>25169324>Sigh anon think what does slothrop spend most of the book looking forpussy
>>25169487He must be from the future or something considering how brainrotted he is.
>>25169432If you don't exclusively use 4chan, then you don't belong here.
>>25169486>You sound like me except the faggot part. He was asian and a twink which was I interested. Although he also topped me. It's not something I would do again and didn't really enjoy it at the time. >And I didn’t get cheated on. You're lucky. One of the most painful things I've ever experienced. >I felt smothered though, I prefer solitude.I feel you on that.
>>25169489give him a break, he's suffering from E. Coli somehow
>>25169492Social media is terrible. People complain that 4chan is the evil hacking group filled with *gasps* chuds and miss sausage knees, but at least I’m not in pain from watching mobile game ads or AI generated slop incessantly
>>25169488
Why is there so much controversy over Lolita but not over GR which has many more sexually explicit scenes depicting pedophilia, including one with the protagonist who is generally portrayed heroically?
>>25169506lmao this faggot again
>>25169506People have read Lolita.
>>25169506>s many more sexually explicit scenes depicting pedophilia*hebephilia, which is perfectly natural
>>25169349>animeGR reads like an eroge vn, not in prose, but probably everything else
>>25169506Because Lolita is a love story. It’s more sinister for framing forbidden fruit as true love, rather than some Ring Cycle.
>>25169506
>>25169509No, people have watched the movie.
>>25169509>People have read Lolita.bingo
>>25169515I've read it 3 times, and it was better each time.
>>25169513>GR reads like an eroge vnMust be why I like it so much
>>25169506there's probably 100 sex scenes in GR and I probably only detected 8 or 9 of them
every comment itt quickly receives many (You)s except the ones asking questions about the book itself...
>>25169493>He was asian and a twinkwhat's that like? was he shaven all over?
>>25169528Anon just worked out the main ethos of this site: the boards are about everything except the stated topic.
>>25169521S-sauce?
>>25169528First time?
>>25169538I still talk like this.
>>25169562This will stay here for hours btw.
>>25169574Pynchon fans, rejoice!
>>25169562There is no way this is healthy, or hot. She will be wearing diapers before her 40s.
>>25169562It's shit like this that made me gave up persuing sex. Women are unsatiable demons that will only be satisfied by animals (the quadrupeds and the nigger alike), and you will never be able to please them like a black cock do, your penis need to be as least as long as a cucumber and as thick as a soda can to be able to live up to it. To be honest, it was quite freeing in a sense, realizing this; it feels fatalistic at the beginning because of all the demoralizing you have been acustomed to, as well how disenchanted you have became with human relationships to the point of reaching an extreme end of misantropy, but after it settle out and you focus on giving attention to your passions, you forget about all those things. We will never live up to the expectations of no one ever anyway, and it's the same the other way around, that other people will never give us the experience we want from them, so you make the best you can out life on your own. It's sad, but the only way to go it's forward.
Thank god I missed whatever was posted.
>>25169595Imagine this thread as a gif.
A pynchonesque piece of cringe I presume.
Gravity’s Rainbow, love the first couple of pages, the rest was okay, love the last 100 pages. Now everybody-
Not gonna read the thread. I've read Mason and Dixon and enjoyed it, even though there were a lot of parts I had to reread just to understand what the fuck was going on.What Pynchon should I read from next?
>>25169707>I've read Mason and Dixon and enjoyed it, even though there were a lot of parts I had to reread just to understand what the fuck was going on.Prove you read it and weren't filtered.
>>25169712No, read it yourself, you’ll get no analysis from me.
>>25169735>t. plotfag
>>25169742Okay… fine, I haven’t read it. I lied. You happy?
>>25168780>pudding>eats pudding out an assbravo pynchon
I missed it. What happened?
>>25170881Thomas Pynchon came across the thread.
it's a secret history of the music industry
