>mogs the aeneid>mogs the illiad>mogs the odysseyhow was Apuleius able to get away with it?
>>25173057It really doesn't
>>25173057You're right about the Aeneid, but Iliad/Odyssey are among the greatest books of all time. Metamorphoses of Ovid is also better than Apuleius.It's also dishonest to judge to judge the whole work on the basis of The Marriage of Eros and Psyche. If you remove Eros and Psyche, the quality plummets.
>>25173092the cupid and psyche story is just a cherry on top of other wonderful little stories contained in their respective sections, I love the socrates story, i love thelyphrons story, i moderately enjoy the wineskin trial, i hate women, i think reptiles are cute
>>25173057Paradise Lost mogs them all
>>25173233Lmao
>>25173238illiad and odyssey are two of the most overrated stories I've ever read. people overhype these stories for no reason. they're worth reading, sure, but people act like they're life changing. they're not even particularly beautifully written
>>25173246Choke on a grapefruit
>>25173246PL is just a soulless cross between the Iliad and the Bible
>>25173057>>25173088I read this yesterday because of the other thread on it. It’s not even the same genre as the Aeneid, a Roman epic poem - it’s a parody of Virgil at parts mixed with ‘Milesian stories’ that are more reminiscent of C. Tales and the Arabian nights. That said, I enjoyed the work immensely.
>Sarah Ruden wrote the best translation of the Golden Ass, the Aeneid, and Augustine's ConfessionsCoincidence?
>>25173304You mentioned Sarah ruden last thread. You’re shilling for her? I read the penguin translation and it was fine.
>>25173092>> It's also dishonest to judge to judge the whole work on the basis of The Marriage of Eros and Psyche. If you remove Eros and Psyche, the quality plummets.I like the ghost stories more like the guy guarding the corpse who gets disfigured by witches after falling asleep. Also the tales of infidelity. I also like how seemelessly random tales weave within one another -‘Haemeus’ disguised as a famous bandit to save his kidnapped bride gets a finale to his tale when his brother kills him and he comes back as a ghost.
>>25173305Twas I>>25173304Because she has the good kind of autism that steered her clear from soiology. She studied grammar while they went to fatphobia awareness seminars.
>>25173188Cupid and psyche as a tale within a tale, is just an extended metaphor for what the entire work is about. Philosophic love (Cupid) guiding psyche (the soul) against the treachery being carried out by erotic love of the physical world (Venus- who starts the whole affair because a random woman was worshiped the same as her). Notice that Cupid begins the tale as the childlike cherub like the kind we are used to seeing in cartoons but as he is ordered to carry out his order to “marry psyche to the most disgusting monster” he accidentally pricks himself. From this point on he’s described more as a mature adult male. He represents the philosophic portion of love at this point. It’s a great story because it is like a mini-encapsulation of what the work is about.
>>25173335>And then I put off all my garments, and greedily thrust my hand into the box, and took out a good deale of oyntment and rubbed my selfe withall.Lovely interpretation. Let us not forget that Atum, the Egyptian god of the setting sun, or the sun in Amenta (subconscious), wherein he fought against Apophis, the great serpent, against whom he must prevail in order to rise again the next morning. Now we switch to our protag Lucius (Lux) who must undergo many a trial before he may return to being a man. Atum's zoötype was the Ass. Lector intende: lætaberis hoc papyro Ægyptio
>>25173387I don’t know all the Egyptian myths but Osiris’ death and then resurrection by Isis is the obvious one. Osiris/ Apuleius is killed or transformed - Osiris chopped into a million pieces and scattered across the Nile and Lucius turned to a donkey- and then is put back together and spiritually reborn anew by the goddess Isis. I believe the story is mentioned outright in chapter 11.
>>25173412>ChMH, Khammaw, "the sun," is derived from the root ChM, Khem, "the black one," which was given by the Egyptians to their own country, and by Egyptian priests to a certain aspect of the father-god, Osiris, the Black One, that is, the Hidden One. He is the hidden essence which is veiled by solar energy. He is also the system of practice which enables us to control the hidden powers of the "underworld" which, according to the Egyptian doctrine, is governed by same god. This hidden realm of Osiris is the world of unseen forces and laws concealed beneath the superficial appearances of the sensory world.Another layer to dwell upon
>>25173238What’s so funny? How obvious his post was? Yeah we all know PL is better than this tripe. >>25173299And you lack a soul for ostensibly failing to feel anything from it.
>>25173457Paradise Lost isn’t an Ancient Greek novel about Egyptian mystery cults. It’s like apples and oranges. Why do you have the need to rate two random things against one another?
>>25173302I didn't know that there was a thread about it recently, I started reading it last week and it easily mogs everything I've read recently, but I've been reading statistics textbooks so not much of a comparison. It's not that I don't enjoy the aeneid, odyseey and illiad, but it's refreshing to see the world of antiquity in the lens of a less serious, contemporary novel. Let the epics go through their long lists of names, I want an adventureI think for a similar reason, I enjoy Catullus poetry immensely. Strangely enough, I also extremely enjoyed Caesars war diary as well.
>>25173305Let's comparePenguin:>"What sort of woman is this mighty tavern-queen?” “A witch,” he answered, “with supernatural powers; she can bring down the sky, raise up the earth, solidify springs, dissolve mountains, raise the dead, send the gods down below, blot out the stars, and illuminate Hell itself.” “Come on,” I said, “spare me the histrionics and let’s have it in plain language.” “Well,” he said, “do you want to hear one or two of her exploits? There are lots I could tell you about. It’s not only our own people that she can make fall madly in love with her, but the Indians, the Ethiopians – both lots – even the Antipodeans; that’s nothing, the merest ABC of her art. But let me tell you what she did in full view of a crowd of eyewitnesses.Ruden (more literal when it comes to the curtain referenc):>'Oh, really?’ I asked. ‘What sort of woman is this? An empress among landladies, I guess.’ 'She’s a witch,’ he said, ‘with the power of a god. She can bring down the sky, hang the land in the air, turn springs to cement, wash away mountains, loft the dead, snuff out the stars, and light up the realm of Tartarus itself.’'>Please strip your tragic stage of its curtain, roll up the backdrop, and give me your story in plain language.' 'You want to hear one or two things she’s done,’ he asked, ‘or a whole batch? It’s not only the locals she fills with lunatic lust for herself but also people as far away as the Indians and the Ethiopians—both kinds—and the Antichthonians. And that’s just the scraps and trivia of her profession. Just listen to what she pulled off with crowds of people looking on.'
>>25173188For me it's how happy the bandits are reveling in evil. Real band of brothers.
>>25173305ComparisonPenguin:>"What sort of woman is this mighty tavern-queen?” “A witch,” he answered, “with supernatural powers; she can bring down the sky, raise up the earth, solidify springs, dissolve mountains, raise the dead, send the gods down below, blot out the stars, and illuminate Hell itself.” “Come on,” I said, “spare me the histrionics and let’s have it in plain language.” “Well,” he said, “do you want to hear one or two of her exploits? There are lots I could tell you about. It’s not only our own people that she can make fall madly in love with her, but the Indians, the Ethiopians – both lots – even the Antipodeans; that’s nothing, the merest ABC of her art. But let me tell you what she did in full view of a crowd of eyewitnesses.Ruden (more literal when it comes to the curtain reference):>'Oh, really?’ I asked. ‘What sort of woman is this? An empress among landladies, I guess.’ 'She’s a witch,’ he said, ‘with the power of a god. She can bring down the sky, hang the land in the air, turn springs to cement, wash away mountains, loft the dead, snuff out the stars, and light up the realm of Tartarus itself.’>'Please strip your tragic stage of its curtain, roll up the backdrop, and give me your story in plain language.' 'You want to hear one or two things she’s done,’ he asked, ‘or a whole batch? It’s not only the locals she fills with lunatic lust for herself but also people as far away as the Indians and the Ethiopians—both kinds—and the Antichthonians. And that’s just the scraps and trivia of her profession. Just listen to what she pulled off with crowds of people looking on.'
>>25173233True, but there's honour in winning silver.
>>25173304>>25173319>Sarah RudenIs she really that good? I read the Joel C. Relihan edition and it was decent, but I want to re-read the work again.
>>25173092You don't have a clue what you are talking about, the Aeneid is a much better read than tbe Illiad or the Odyssey, for the simple reason that it was designed from the ground up to be recited foremost with the option of bard like performances.
>>25173733It was designed poorly. It's boring and not emotionally compelling. The only good part was the bit with Dido. Ovid covers the same ground with far better effect.
>>25173733I also designed my diary desu from the ground up to be recited foremost with the option of bard-like performances, but that doesn't automatically make my diary desu better than anything mentioned ITT, including Paradise Lost.
>>25173057>writing a novel when everyone else is doing poetryHe truly was playing checkers at a chess tournament
>>25173092>>25173741You know nothing of the Aeneid. Or Ovid. Learn Latin or lower your tone.
>>25173057how can you go about comparing a prose work to three works of dactylic hexameter? any advantage it may have over them is negated by the fact that it was written without that self imposed constraint. you might as well say that you can cover more ground in a day than a ballet dancer.
>>25173741>not emotionally compellingPater Aeneas being a priest and a beast of burden for his people is not compelling?The underworld chapter where he meets his dad is not compelling?
>>25173708Sarah Ruden explains in the introduction that she asked her husband to help her understand and properly translate "bro humor" and he recommended her the Flashman novels and so she read those to prep Everything she does is gold except her Gospels translation which is actually *too* literal since she's a Christian.
>>25173457What does it make you feel? Do you find Milton babbling about theology through whichever character is available to be emotionally compelling?
I just came to this thread for a comfy Golden Ass/ picaresque thread and I find you all babbling about Paradise Lost and literally anything else except Apuleius
>>25174291Nobody but you, me and people who work in literary studies departments at universities have ever read Apuleius
>>25174306I knew of it from the reference book 1001 Books you must read. I posted the excerpt in the last thread. I am glad I discovered it too. Funny book
>>25174306Posting again cause it’s a great overview of the novel for any lurkers who haven’t heard of it before
>>25174310What I found interesting was that by casting the protagonist into a donkey's role and describing the abuses he suffered, it felt like the author was trying to make people more compassionate toward beasts of burden, and I'm not sure if this is just me projecting my 21st century sensibilities on to the text or if being mean to anmals was something that might've been considered a bad thing all the way back then
>>25174314It’s definitely that plus the author commenting on other working class people too.
>>25174314Fun fact: while searching translations I actually found one that apparently has a foreword by Peter singer, the animal rights guy. You’re not the only one who noticed that in the work
>>25174318Huh, well I feel a little more vindicated now.
>>25174314He wouldn't be the only Roman citizen who ever liked animals.
>>25174314Hardly unique. Ovid does things like that in Metamorphoses and at the end of the books preaches reincarnation and that killing and eating animals is wrong because they have the same souls as humans
>>25174336Seems oddly similar to Hinduism. I haven't finished Metamorphoses yet, but I was surprised early on when it mentioned tigers in the jungles on the banks of the Ganges, the ancient world had more cultural exchange across distances than you'd think
>>25174350It's from Alexander, Pyrrhonism also was influenced by Indian thought. There was also Greek influence on Indian art
>>25174376It wasn’t just Alexander. Many traders since Egyptian times had gone as far as India and parts of Africa. Pic related is a temple relief talking about panther skins brought back from the Land of Punt so clearly the ancients in Egypt and Greece knew of these animals. Also the famous Heraclitus quote - “the handsomest ape is still ugly compared to all humans” shows they knew about apes.
>>25174415That is definitely a tiger's tail
>>25174291>babbling about Paradise Lost and literally anything else except ApuleiusTo beee faaaaaaair, the OP starts off this thread by babbling about the Aeneid, the Iliad and the Odyssey, does it not?
>>25174480Well I learned a lot today!
>>25174484>I learned a lotSource? Unverified claim.
>>25173057>mogs the aeneidNot hard to do. It's imperialist garbage with a terrible soullessness.
>>25174480because they are both part of the classical corpus
>>25174525Where did this meme come from, why the Aeneid hate?
>>25174433It’s a tiger skin brought back from Hatshepsut’s highly publicized voyage to ‘Punt’- a nation equated with modern day Africa or India.
>>25174525>tfw your interpretation is based on second hand karenologyVirgil was a bonafide Magus but I wouldn't expect a Hylic to know this
>>25174555The poetry of Homer was feared by the Roman ruling class. The point of Homer was love. The assigned point of Virgil's Aeneid was duty. Dead fealty to your boss
>>25174803You only engage with reality based on memes you get from the internet. Reconsider your life.
>>25174813You clearly have only read the interpretations of failed poly sci majors from the anglosphere
>>25174825I don't even know what most of those words mean but I do know you're terminally online and that no person with a job or access to sex has ever used words like "magus" or "hylic" and I'm going to have to ask you to touch grass and read Apuleius
>>25174849Damn you really are retarded
>>25174310>Funny bookHow so?
>>25174859NTA but because it's highly comedic. Hijinks and wacky escapades happen in it.
>>25174808Duty to your tribe/people and the Gods, not duty to some guy.
>>25174859It’s a bunch of silly and crass sex stories and bawdy tales structured around a frame story of a man who has to live as an ass until being reborn by the goddess Isis in a new (and likely abstinent) form. The frame story is far more relevant to the stories than in something like Arab nights for instance because the gross stories are funny but serve to show Lucius’ life without Isis vs his life after achieving gnosis and being initiated into the sect of abstinence/ Platonism - living for the mind and soul not for the body.
>>25174859If you seriously have never heard of the book then please read this >>25174312Read that brief synopsis for a basic gestalt what the novel is like - why it’s funny, what you get out of reading it
>>25174525>UVG IMPERIALISM IS SOOO BARBARIC REAL ROMANVS HATES IT
>>25174859The beginning of this thread and the end of this thread are both full of severe retardation. Just read the middle part of the thread where me and the other anon actually talk about the book. Ignore first and last like 20 posts
>>25174911"Real Romans"What, only the guys who got busts?
>>25174938Most of the Roman army was plebs and it ultimately because the body which chose the emperor
>>25174480Yeah well I didn’t write the OP. I know that you all like to have pissing contests over random books- like “How Stella got her groove back TOTALLY MOGS the Encyclopedia of Lightbulb fixtures!” but not everything has to be weighed against each other. You just come across like little kids who feel the need to put down other classic works of great men in antiquity.
Reposting Apuleius biography. This page is from the book 501 Great Writers. It gives you a basic overview why he’s so important and what he wrote about.
‘Apuleius prose is an entertaining mixture of magic, farce, religion and mythology, written in a lively and picaresque style that is highly polished.’
>>25173057>>25173092The Aeneid is arguably the best-written book of all time.Learn Latin or shut up.
ΕΚΑΣ ΕΚΑΣ ΕΣΤΕ ΒΕΒΗΛΟΙProcul o procul este profani
Ok, I read the Golden Ass (is the title "Asinus Aureus" a reference to King Midas having donkey ears?). Here are the bits I found particularly funny:>the atmosphere surrounding the witch Meroe and all the severe punishments she inflicted upon those who merely bothered her; then, she just pisses upon the narrator>a prophet selling good prophecies to a stranger who is about to pay, when a former customer appears and recalls the disaster that befell upon his sea voyage; the current customer takes his money back and walks away>Lucius escaping a super angry crowd; he sharts and they flee>the secret robbers telling the guards to spare "such a magnificent creature that is the bear"; the animal is actually one of them under a bear-skin>a passerby being beaten and accused of stealing Lucius, with the idea that he murdered the donkey's owner to put his hands upon the animal; when they go investigating the whereabouts of the owner, he has already been slain by a she-bear; the passerby is senteced to death
>>25175682I'll have to check out this book. Looks neat.
>>25177733It’s really good. I recommend it. It has a basic overview of writing style, a synopsis of their works, biographic information and lots of other content.
>>25177719>> Ok, I read the Golden Ass (is the title "Asinus Aureus" a reference to King Midas having donkey ears?)No one knows why he called it that. Golden ass is something Apuleius supposedly referred to it as in other works I believe. It was only ever released in his time officially as “the metamorphoses of Lucius Apuleius”. Clearly aping the more famous Ovid work.
>>25173057Yeah
>>25173491I would describe golden ass as ‘the Arabian Nights as if it were written by Plato.’ Obviously if you want more like it from Rome you should go for fragments of Petronius and other ancient novels. If you want Milesian stories but from other countries the trilogy Arab nights/ Decameron/ Canterbury Tales are also fun.
For those of you bums too lazy to read the book, Milo Manara has made a comic book adaptation of it
>>25177774Nothing in his style apes Ovid at all, the title is just a homage
>>25178302I meant the title aped the other not the style. Nothing in that post implied otherwise
>>25173057There is a lesser known court defense from this author where he dissects arguments of witchcraft his in-laws put against him like he uses fish bones and mirrors to conjure demons and he gave kids epilepsy. I read it today and it’s not very interesting at all. That was a complete time sink.
>>25178288Basado
>>25178288Mogged by Gullivera.
