Why do I always go back to Moby Dick whenever I try to read something new. It's just that good, it really is the 'infinite novel'. You can carefully read it 10 times and stil find some new nugget of insight.Is there anything that can hold a candle to it?
Yes, Paradise Lost and at least five Shakespeare plays (Hamlet, Othello, King Lear, Macbeth, Antony and Cleopatra). And yes, yes, Dante and Homer and Chaucer and Cervantes. Outside of these: slim pickings. Humanity's heart just isn't in it anymore.
>>25173991What do people see in Homer. It has it's moments but not real, deep, penetrative insight.
It’s the way Melville’s prose is, is what makes it so good. It’s a creamy sort of texture with an almost perfect pinpoint accuracy of writing into the subconscious.
>>25174097I like to imagine it as diamond dust mixed with thick sweet cream that swirls in spiral shapes under a perfect not too cold, not too hot spring - summer day.
>>25174010The stories are extraordinarily well-constructed and come in multiple excellent translations, including Chapman and Pope (more of a rewrite). They contain deep insight into human nature and have unimpeachable authorial credibility: they feel "true" the way very few stories do.
>>25173984Maybe you should grow up and read something sophisticated like Pynchon or Delilo.
>>25173984Paradise Lost and Ulysses are probably the only two that matched it in my opinion. At least for the English language.
>>25173984Reddit's top voted novel btw
>>25174133Okay? And? Are you insular that you’d force yourself to dislike something because a group of other social media users like it?
>>25174110>They contain deep insight into human natureI mean the 9th and 24th chapter stand out in terms of insight but it's nothing mindblowing.
>>25174152Yeah? Anything reddit overrated cannot be good. If you don't agree with this then you should consider the possibility that you are emotionally stunted.
>>25174258Based. So sick of reddit’s top books like this and Gravity’s Rainbow being shilled here.
>>25174152>the only way anyone could dislike reading literal whale facts is if they forced themselves to dislike it
>>25174010The Iliad has infinitely more real, deep, penetrative insight than Moby-Dick. Live a life if you don't get it.
>>25174296May I see it then? Give the insight, point to a specific chapter and verse.
>>25174297Nta but Moby Dick is the kind of book made for people that the power of Homer's art slides right off of
>>25174343Yeah I can attest to this. Melville explicitly stated that he was writing an encyclopaedia on whales because he wanted readers that were unaffected by Homer’s works, cerebrally and viscerally.>>25174268I agree with Gravity’s Rainbow being shit and reddit, but you do know that it’s always been discussed here don’t you? You’re not some newfag are you?
>>25174366>Gravity’s Rainbow being shit and redditHow so?
>>25174292unironically. the whale facts are interesting to read and I couldn't give less of a fuck about whales.
>>25174394>sez
>>25174343>>25174366Everytime I call out some Homer dickthrobber to show me the unique deep insights of Homer they don't reply because it's on B movie level.
>>25174423I’m >>25174366 and if you couldn’t tell, I was essentially calling >>25174297’s post retarded
>>25174423If you sincerely think Homer is "on B movie level", you are an irony poisoned teenager and aren't worth replying to. I suggest growing up, living a life, reading more, and then returning to Homer. You start with line one by the way!
>>25174430>>25174438As I thought, no examples provided because there are none.
>>25174467You have poor reading comprehension. Kill yourself, midwit.
>>25174423My point was that Homer is an actual artistic experience that affects the nerves; he wasn't doing an essayistic, contrived commentary on things the way Melville was with Moby Dick. If you're unable to glean anything from Homer regarding man's relationship with fate and agency, or feel anything from certain scenes in the underworld, or on the battlefield, or in the interpersonal dealings of the characters, their relationships to their families and fatherland, or the seamless handling of universal themes that has been endlessly imitated but never bested for the rest of literary history, that's on you. Works like Moby Dick are available for those that crave analysis, superfluity, hamfisted symbolism, and all those good(tm) things.
>>25174662>Works like Moby Dick are available for those that crave analysis, superfluity, hamfisted symbolism, and all those good(tm) things.Just say americans
>>25173984I really struggle to get through 2 pages of moby dingus at a time without falling asleep
>>25174662Homer laid the groundwork for all artistic exprrssions that came after him, and he did it in what 700 - 800 BC. His themes about duty, perspective, determinism, human relations, anger not being worth etc all echo throughout hollywood to this dayI am not denying this, but there is nothing unique in terms of deep insight in Homer that is unique and not duplicatable.
>>25173984Gravity's Rainbow took over the 'infinite novel' spot from Moby-Dick for me. Tremendous book, one I felt like rereading almost instantly. Though definitely not for everyone; Moby-Dick I can picture myself recommending to friends and family, whereas Gravity's Rainbow I recommended to 1 (one) friend who was already into pomo. Also, seconding Paradise Lost and Shakespeare. Apart from the ones mentioned by the other anon, Love's Labour's Lost is a standout, sorely underrated. Richard III and Henry IV are pretty fun too.Goethe's Faust is also something I can picture myself rereading over and over again.
>>25174133bullshit. I just went to /books or whatever the biggest reddit is on books and clicked the link for their best books of all time. Moby dick is not on the list. Here is a picture of the list.
>>25173991>Chaucerehhh. Based for including Antony and Cleopatra though.
Moby dick is protowoke
>>25173984Anyone have a good version/publication of this book? I kinda like things with maps or illustrations in the notes or things like that.
>>25175990https://www.lulu.com/shop/herman-melville-and-anonymous/moby-dick/paperback/product-7wgny7.htmlhttps://annas-archive.gl/md5/5cdb93a5bcd9d93b3db2a5a2e396156aA more serious but boring answer would be Norton Critical Edition
I thought I would get sick of Ishmael/Melville's penchant for philosophizing in every paragraph or so sooner and later, but I'm already almost 400 pages in and I'm still so engaged. Like in the Monkey-Rope, Ishmael somehow spun some poignant navelgazing of the vulnerable and unfair interconnectedness among different people from an ordinary (if rather metal) scene of him holding Queequeg from being washed away/eaten by sharks while he's poking a hole in a whale's corpse. Now I get why some people say that this book has practically infinite re-readability.
>>25176519I think one of the reasons it never gets old is because Melville is constantly shifting his style. Whiteness of the Whale differs greatly from Ahab's speeches, which differs greatly from the dialogues between mates, which differs greatly from the Sermon, which differs greatly from the more technical writing of Cetology and co., which differs greatly from...
>>25176533I feel like those abrupt changes aren't actually *that* many nor constant, and that there is definitely a "main style" for each of the book's segments. The chapters before Ishmael gets onto the Pequod are written like an ordinary, humorous sea-adventure story. Once we get onto the ship, soliloquies and descriptions of whales and the whaling life start popping up, though the most striking change is the literally theatrical air that imbues Ahab's appearance and subsequent proclamation of his intentions and philosophy, as well as the shipmates' reactions to his insanity. After all the drama, though, and after we've settled into the groove of things, it's a steady alternation between description of sea-life/navelgazing and straightforward plot.
>>25175953
>>25176602>truelit>23k people>books>1.4m peopleHmmmm
>>25174423You expect anons to what? Find specific passages screenshot/quote/photograph them only for you to what? Say that it doesn't count because it's a translation (when you don't read a lick of Homeric Greek), say that it is not good, call it capeshit etc. Both the Illiad and The Odyssey are powerful and insightful, depicting complexly the human condition: loss, hardship, death, conflict, love, jubilation, brotherhood, and importantly it does all of this works thousands of years old, and with powerful language and style that is completely unique for the time of composition. It is poetically incredible in the Homeric language (as far as I have got with my Homeric studies), and also has managed to be emulated at least in spirit, or accuracy, or both depending upon translation in dozens of languages, Homer shines through all that history and language and reaches readers the world over. Homer is best appreciated as a whole, it has sections that I think are more powerful than others (Nestor's speeches, Achilleus grieving for Patroklus, Achilleus and Priam's dialogues, Andromache grieving Hector, Hera's seducing of Zeus) to name just a few, and just from the Illiad. Pointlessly I list these because you won't appreciate the weight or meaning of any of these passages, especially not separate from the work. You have obviously already made up this silly conclusion on Homer that you've gleamed from shitposters who were mostly joking, as people who have insight and enjoy something are wont to do, as they can see the humorous aspects of a given work. I have yet to read Moby Dick, I have a copy and will likely have read it by the end of the year. Yet, having not much knowledge of Moby Dick outside of vagueries, and details I've gleamed from popular culture, instead of my ignorance on the work being a catalyst for shitting on it (as you do with Homer) I remain open minded and intrigued by the effect that the book has on those who enjoy it. I don't see their enjoyment, and feel insecure for not having read it and resort to name calling and silly arguments, nor do I demand that anons prove to me that it is good. I read what they have to say, it piques my curiosity and I think to myself"I look forward to reading it." Maybe you should do the same. If you find Homer daunting, or feel insecure at your ability to understand it, just pick up a copy and start reading, it's not ridiculously complex, and anything you don't understand, refer to notes or Google. Reading Homer isn't some gargantuan feat, it is fun, entertaining, AND insightful and powerful. Things don't have to be boring to have weight and meaning. Derision as a shield for ignorance and insecurity is not becoming, and you would better yourself to drop this attitude.
I just picked up moby dick at the thrift store, one of the classics I haven’t read. Excited.
>>25174343I love Moby-Dick and the Iliad is in my personal top 10. I did fail to emotionally connect to the Odyssey though, and I read it in two translations to two different languages.
>>25176627Too much BTFO anon… too much BTFO.
>>25176627
>>25176627I'm sorry anon... but the word you are looking for is "gleaned" Once I can let slide, but twice invalidates your entire post. I'm sorry that it has to be this way
>>25176691FUCK, I have to admit I genuinely thought the word to be gleamed. I think I've heard it said more than seen it written, and where I have seen it written I have probably just glossed over it, my feeble mind expecting it to contain an M. I thought it was that the information shone out to you, and you saw it "gleaming" and took away a shining pearl of information from it.
>>25175990>>25176087 is right, you want the newest Norton Critical Edition. the newest Oxford Worlds Classics will also work
>>25176627>Reading Homer isn't some gargantuan feat, it is fun, entertaining, AND insightful and powerful. Things don't have to be boring to have weight and meaning.This. When approaching classic literature, many people get filtered precisely because they approach it with Solemnity and Reverence, expecting it to be a Profound Meditation on the Human Condition, and it's not at all what they expected. They fail to see the levity, the humour, the fun the author is having with the medium. At least I know I did when I first started getting into literature.
>>25173991>five Shakespeare playsThe correct choices are Hamlet, Lear, Henry IV, Richard III and Caesar.
When the fuck do we get to the whaling adventure? I don't want to hear about Jonah or about how your cannibal roommate is handsome with a strong loving embrace hooooooly shitI actually quite liked the first chapter and its description of the beauty of the ocean
>>25177028you can just say you don't really like reading, that's fine
>>25176627I can find all of the Homeric echoes and parallels in hollywood slob, I can't find the deepness and richness of Ahab's soliliquoys in it.Avatar 2 had a modern retelling of the Achilles - Priam dialogue and emotiveness. This is my point. Nestor's speeches of 'well back in my day' are everywhere. Patroclus shit talking Hector while getting impaled is proto cape (be it shit or kino) and echoes throughout Marvelslop.Ofc Homer invented it, ofc the Illiad is a must read but it's reproducible in other media and art.
>>25176729M8 wut about Macbeth.
>>25176602I don't think Blood Meridian is in the same league as Melville/Joyce/Tolstoy, that Infinite Jest is better than East of Eden or Sound and the Fury, or that Slaughterhouse 5 should be right next to Nightwood. Also Andrey Beli needs to be on here. But overall this is pretty good. Respect to including Han Kang and Jon Fosse, they're excellent.
>>25177164Definitely not a top fiver for me. It's closer to Othello and Romeo/Juliet. When I first read Shakespeare I read Lear after MacBeth and I was shocked at how much more I liked it.
>>25176729Ricahrd III is overrated and mostly sucks. Bottom 10 Shakes play.
>>25174705The struggles of a porn addled brain
